Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Classic Juggs.... nearly unstoppable... really a force you have to reckon with...... against Galactus herold....

who wins this one ?

Firelord through battlefield removal only. He can use power cosmic to teleport things cant he?

Otherwise none of his powers can affect Juggs

FL

All Firelord can do is BFR Juggernaut. If that counts, then he wins.

I don't see how FL can BFR Juggs.
Someone please explain how. But no speculation please.

He can BFR Juggernaut by destroying the planet then booting him into the Sun.

Juggs ftw.

. ermmhappy

Assuming SM vs. FL is not in play, Firelord everytime

I wouldn't say that Juggernaut beating Firelord would be an extreme case of PIS.

No it wouldn't, if they fought hand-to-hand.

The OP never specified such, so the real question is

what can Juggernaut do to Firelord if Cain can't get in close to use his strength?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
what can Juggernaut do to Firelord if Cain can't get in close to use his strength? Same coin... What can FL accomplish by staying out of reach?

It's been shown that herald levels of the power cosmic have no affect on Juggernaut so Firelord has no long-range options.

It's BFR or bust.

Originally posted by Galan007
Same coin... What can FL accomplish by staying out of reach?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
It's been shown that herald levels of the power cosmic have no affect on Juggernaut so Firelord has no long-range options.

It's BFR or bust.

Valid points, but the bottom line is the absolute most juggernaut can accomplish is a stalemate. If we allow BFR, FL wins. If we disallow BFR, it is a draw.

What can FL accomplish by staying out of reach? He takes away Juggernaut's primary power, and only advantage.

Direct ranged assaults from FL onto Juggernaut may have little or no effect, but the same cannot be said for Juggernaut's environment. That's FL's advantage that Juggernaut doesn't have. Essentially the coin is neither can do anything to the other directly, but the coin is weighted in Firelord's favor because he can do anything to the environment on which Juggernaut stands. Same can't be said for Juggernaut in respect to Firelord.

Again the whole point is moot if we disallow BFR.

Suppose Firelord blows up the planet from orbital space, and juggernaut survives but cannot accrue momentum in the direction of firelord since he is now in space-vacuum. He'll just drift in space indefinitely.

FL can used ranged attacks to propel him in the direction of a black hole, a sun, super-nova, etc. Since juggs is in space and cannot gain friction for forward momentum, he's helpless. So bottom line, juggs can't be hurt, but he can't do anything either. Firelord can control (or remove) juggs' environment, while juggs still cannot do anything to FL.

Juggernaut has shown in the past to be able to:

Walk in mid-air
Absorb a characters energy attack and shoot it back at them
T-clap people to sleep from long-range

I don't remember Juggs knocking anyone out as strong as FL with a thunder clap.

I don't either. I was just pointing out that Juggernaut does have long-range attacks.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I don't either. I was just pointing out that Juggernaut does have long-range attacks.

Which would have the same result as FLs long-range attacks: nothing

When did he walk in mid-air?

Walking in mid-air is not the same as space

Firelord wins, his blasts would eventually wear juggs down and he could easly avoid too much physical contact with him.

Ehhhh zero G vs. gravity modification. I guess he's not really walking in mid-air. But, he was advancing on Jean Grey while she had him suspended in mid-air. He did this twice.

http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing4/Feat14.jpg

Originally posted by norrinradd43
Firelord wins, his blasts would eventually wear juggs down and he could easly avoid too much physical contact with him.

How are his blasts going to wear Juggernaut down? Juggs has unlimited stamina.

Hearld level energy blasts will eventually wear Juggernaut down. Firelord is smart enough to take advantage of his opportunites as well such as knowing when to attack, unless Juggs wants to run the entire fight in which case Firelord would just get bored and leave.

In Juggernauts battle with Stellaris her energy blasts were literally bouncing off him. Her power is compared to a Heralds.

Even if it were true Juggy could just activate his forcefield at any time.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Ehhhh zero G vs. gravity modification. I guess he's not really walking in mid-air. But, he was advancing on Jean Grey while she had him suspended in mid-air. He did this twice.

http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing4/Feat14.jpg

I concede he advances, but it doesn't look like he advances to cover a very far distance. Suppose juggs is floating in space near the moon, how long will it take him to advance towards mars?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I concede he advances, but it doesn't look like he advances to cover a very far distance. Suppose juggs is floating in space near the moon, how long will it take him to advance towards mars?

How ever fast the lumbering oaf walks I imagine.

He only did it in that one issue, well, twice in that one issue. So, who knows?

He'd only be able to move as fast as he normally can.

Again, I don't see how FL can BFR Juggs.
And don't say that he can blow up the planet because they're three things wrong with that. First, he can do no such thing (prove it). Second, it requires him to leave the battle field which isn't allowed by the forum rules. And finally, FL would have removed himself from the battlefield as well (Thus he BFRd himself).

Also, there are some here who don't know Juggs very well. They say things like "FL will eventually wear Juggs down" when they don't know
that not only Juggsdoes not tire but he cannot harmed by physical force period. It is only by psionic or mystical means that which Juggs can be harmed. Thor's godblast, which is greater than anything FL can dish out, had absolutely no damage effect to Juggs.

Personally, this is a stalemate if FL stays away forever. But if he decides to come in and fight then he better not let Juggs catch him. Otherwise he gets his neck rung and body folded up nicely.

Well FL could pick up Juggs at lightspeed and dump him into space.

Firelord can't pick up Jugg at lightspeed or he'll destroy Earth in the process, and he's a good guy.Physically, he cannot even slow him down, cause powered up by the PC he can reach Class 50 or a bit more than that.Not enough to even make Cain flinch.If they are on the ground, Firelord could melt the enviroment and make Jugg being sunk into the molten Earth thus making him unable to build momentum and thus unable to fight.This is the case were Magic VS Power Cosmic wins, the recently powered up Surfer who fought alongside Galactus in Annihilation, Morg with WOL, may succeed in a physical attempt to slow or stun Jugg using enough of their energies, considering Thor had to use Mjolnir to negate magic and manage to stun Cain.

If Juggernaut is only floating in space he is just floating he has to be moving for his powers to work.

Originally posted by golem370
If Juggernaut is only floating in space he is just floating he has to be moving for his powers to work.

His unstoppability enchantment, yes. But he can turn that on and off at will. All of his other powers are present, always.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well FL could pick up Juggs at lightspeed and dump him into space.

Not only can't Fl reach lightspeed within the battlefield distance in an atmosphere but he doesn't have the necessary reactions to grab Juggs moving at that speed from so close. The moment he grabs Juggs is the moment he gets his neck rung.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not only can't Fl reach lightspeed within the battlefield distance in an atmosphere but he doesn't have the necessary reactions to grab Juggs moving at that speed from so close. The moment he grabs Juggs is the moment he gets his neck rung.

FL flies through space going lightspeed, if he didn't have the reaction speed to be able to adjust his movement he would run into asteroids, etc.

And he doesn't even have to go lightspeed, he could go supersonic speeds that exceed Cain's ability to react, but would not harm the planet. It's not like FL even cares that much about Earth.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Firelord can't pick up Jugg at lightspeed or he'll destroy Earth in the process, and he's a good guy.Physically, he cannot even slow him down, cause powered up by the PC he can reach Class 50 or a bit more than that.Not enough to even make Cain flinch.If they are on the ground, Firelord could melt the enviroment and make Jugg being sunk into the molten Earth thus making him unable to build momentum and thus unable to fight.This is the case were Magic VS Power Cosmic wins, the recently powered up Surfer who fought alongside Galactus in Annihilation, Morg with WOL, may succeed in a physical attempt to slow or stun Jugg using enough of their energies, considering Thor had to use Mjolnir to negate magic and manage to stun Cain.

FL was willing to kill the people in NY who sprayed him with water...

Originally posted by h1a8
Again, I don't see how FL can BFR Juggs.
And don't say that he can blow up the planet because they're three things wrong with that. First, he can do no such thing (prove it). Second, it requires him to leave the battle field which isn't allowed by the forum rules. And finally, FL would have removed himself from the battlefield as well (Thus he BFRd himself).

Also, there are some here who don't know Juggs very well. They say things like "FL will eventually wear Juggs down" when they don't know
that not only Juggsdoes not tire but he cannot harmed by physical force period. It is only by psionic or mystical means that which Juggs can be harmed. Thor's godblast, which is greater than anything FL can dish out, had absolutely no damage effect to Juggs.

Personally, this is a stalemate if FL stays away forever. But if he decides to come in and fight then he better not let Juggs catch him. Otherwise he gets his neck rung and body folded up nicely.

Terrax has destroyed a planet whilst standing on it to no ill effects, Firelord is at least equal to Terrax.

There's no proof Jugs could even survive a planet shattering explosion.

Originally posted by Mindset
FL flies through space going lightspeed, if he didn't have the reaction speed to be able to adjust his movement he would run into asteroids, etc.

And he doesn't even have to go lightspeed, he could go supersonic speeds that exceed Cain's ability to react, but would not harm the planet. It's not like FL even cares that much about Earth.
First, this isn't space this is an atmosphere.
Second, I can dodge asteroids going lightspeed if the asteroids are AUs away (or even planetary distances away).
We're talking about battlefield distance (.5 km). Neither can FL accelerate to lightspeed in such a small distance nor can he react in that distance traveling lightspeed (if he could accelerate to it). And no one (except flash) has every traveled lightspeed in an atmosphere.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Terrax has destroyed a planet whilst standing on it to no ill effects, Firelord is at least equal to Terrax.

There's no proof Jugs could even survive a planet shattering explosion.

Terrax can't destroy a planet. If he did then it was most certainly due to
some other power or plot device. Second, there is no proof that Jugs can
even be hurt by physical force. How do you like them apples?

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Terrax has destroyed a planet whilst standing on it to no ill effects, Firelord is at least equal to Terrax.

There's no proof Jugs could even survive a planet shattering explosion.

He's shrugged off planet shattering blasts.

Originally posted by h1a8
Terrax can't destroy a planet. If he did then it was most certainly due to
some other power or plot device. Second, there is no proof that Jugs can
even be hurt by physical force. How do you like them apples? juggernauts been harmed both onslaught and warhulk have whipped him physically saying hes immune to harm is just pure unbridled fanboyism. juggzie wins. but saying hes immune to harm is bullshit.

Originally posted by Lumby
juggernauts been harmed both onslaught and warhulk have whipped him physically saying hes immune to harm is just pure unbridled fanboyism. juggzie wins. but saying hes immune to harm is bullshit.

Onslaught is a psionic being. Juggs can be harm through mystical and psionic forces (on panel as well as in his bios). Also, the Onslaught debacle is invalid since the writer didn't know much about Juggernaut (had Onslaught pull an non-existent gem from his chest). Juggs is immune to purely physical harm and not harm in general.

Originally posted by h1a8
First, this isn't space this is an atmosphere.
Second, I can dodge asteroids going lightspeed if the asteroids are AUs away (or even planetary distances away).
We're talking about battlefield distance (.5 km). Neither can FL accelerate to lightspeed in such a small distance nor can he react in that distance traveling lightspeed (if he could accelerate to it). And no one (except flash) has every traveled lightspeed in an atmosphere.

First, I already said he doesn't need to go lightspeed, it's in the post you quoted...

Second, what sense does it make to be able to move at lightspeed if you can't react to obstacles in front of you, every asteroid etc. isn't an AU away...

So again, what's stopping FL from going supersonic speeds pick Juggs up from behind and fly into space. He could go fast enough to be beyond Juggs reaction speed, but slow enough to not damage the Earth significantly.

Originally posted by h1a8
Onslaught is a psionic being. Juggs can be harm through mystical and psionic forces (on panel as well as in his bios). Also, the Onslaught debacle is invalid since the writer didn't know much about Juggernaut (had Onslaught pull an non-existent gem from his chest). Juggs is immune to purely physical harm and not harm in general. found! hulk beats down juggzor physixaly.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4010/172203ch.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4814/172214lw.jpg

and here

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

hulk

Firelord is like the whipping boy of the Heralds. Only slightly above Airwalker.

Originally posted by Lumby
found! hulk beats down juggzor physixaly.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4010/172203ch.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4814/172214lw.jpg

and here

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

hulk

First scans Hulk didn't even harm Juggs, so...

How much did the celestial tech augment Hulk's powers?

Originally posted by Mindset
First scans Hulk didn't even harm Juggs, so...


I think the point that is trying to be made with the first two scans is that even though Juggernaut isn't physically hurt, Hulk did have the power pick-up, lift, spin, and throw the Juggernaut. If you have the power to do that, then Juggernaut's strength is probably the least of your worries.

Fighting the Juggernaut with just physical strength is like playing against the computer in a fighting game your an expert in when the computer cannot die. Sure, you can fight the computer all day, and probably not get hurt at all, but really whats the point in that? You'd probably fall asleep at the controller before the computer can actually hurt you.

i misread the scans, ill find a handbook entry on him or something, i mean seriously immune to physical harm is such bullshit fanboyism hes got very high end durability is all

Originally posted by Mindset
First scans Hulk didn't even harm Juggs, so...

How much did the celestial tech augment Hulk's powers?

Substantially. He was able to draw power from a pocket dimension that increased his strength.

Originally posted by Evangel94
I think the point that is trying to be made with the first two scans is that even though Juggernaut isn't physically hurt, Hulk did have the power pick-up, lift, spin, and throw the Juggernaut. If you have the power to do that, then Juggernaut's strength is probably the least of your worries.

You've got to be kidding? Sense when is it hard for Hulk to pick up 900lbs and throw it?

By the way, War never actually caused physical damage to Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You've got to be kidding? Sense when is it hard for Hulk to pick up 900lbs and throw it?

By the way, War never actually caused physical damage to Juggernaut. i misread the scans, sorry my fault sorry

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
By the way, War never actually caused physical damage to Juggernaut.

He did no such thing.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You've got to be kidding? Sense when is it hard for Hulk to pick up 900lbs and throw it?


Well, when it's 900lbs of USDA approved Juggernaut-enchanted-meat, then it's probably pretty difficult. Especially when that 900lbs of Cytorak meat doesn't want to get thrown.

900lbs is 900lbs.

Originally posted by Lumby
i misread the scans, sorry my fault sorry

I wasn't replying to you, so no need to be sorry.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well, when it's 900lbs of USDA approved Juggernaut enchanted meat, then it's probably pretty difficult.

I think you are confusing Juggs's power with the Blobs power.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin

I think you are confusing Juggs's power with the Blobs power.

:sigh:

You're not understanding what I am saying. Hulk and Juggernaut are both solid Class 100's. Strength isn't going to be the determining winning factor between them.

Hulk and Juggernaut can hammer away at each other for days, weeks, months, years, or beyond. Even if Hulk falls after decades of fighting, in the end, it doesn't really mean much if it took Juggernaut that long to do it (and vice-versa).

Now if Juggernaut was just as strong as he is durable, then that would be a different story. But this whole non-sense about not beating the Juggernaut physically is just rubbish. Clearly beating the Juggernaut physically would just be a waste of time (due to his enchantment) when there are other alternate, more efficient, and time-saving methods of "defeating" the Juggernaut. If your looking for someone to physically beat down the Juggernaut in the near future, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Still, it doesn't stop heroes from defeating the Juggernaut.


LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO! YOU MADE ME TURN THIS INTO A HULK VS JUGGERNAUT DEBATE!

I'm not responding in this thread anymore!

just to clear up.

Extract from the marvel handbook
"The juggernaut was however vulnerable to magical forces or sufficient strength. period.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6776/invulnerablebullshitqf7.th.png

"the mystical energy of cytorrak also gave the juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury.period

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6776/invulnerablebullshitqf7.th.png

no mention of invulnerability or immunity to physical harm on there. like i said invulnerable to harm is pure uncut bullshit fanboyism. hes got high end durability.

Originally posted by Evangel94
:sigh:

You're not understanding what I am saying. Hulk and Juggernaut are both solid Class 100's. Strength isn't going to be the determining winning factor between them.

Hulk and Juggernaut can hammer away at each other for days, weeks, months, years, or beyond. Even if Hulk falls after decades of fighting, in the end, it doesn't really mean much if it took Juggernaut that long to do it (and vice-versa).

Now if Juggernaut was just as strong as he is durable, then that would be a different story.

Well lets put it this way, there have been a few times when Juggs has been able to increase his strength. That comic posted was one. You posted "power-pickup" as if that made Hulk instantly stronger than Juggs. Hulk could have been weaker than him and still have thrown him like he did. He just lifted 900lbs nothing special about that.

Originally posted by Lumby
just to clear up.

Extract from the marvel handbook
"The juggernaut was however vulnerable to magical forces or sufficient strength. period.

Let me correct you there, it says:

"The Juggernaut was however vulnerable to magical forces OF sufficient strength."

It says OF not OR. That means that a powerful enough MAGIC can harm him. It is not referring to physical might. You miss read the scan again. Plus there are many different versions of that bio.

Again my fault, im very slightly dyslexic. but dude honestly i can dig up 20 more of those things and i bet donuts they say high-end durability or nigh-invulnerable. juggernaut is a beast and definitely has IMMENSE durability but hes nowhere near invulnerable. even suggesting so is just ugly fanboyism and yes bullshit.

Juggernaut has never been seriously damaged by physical force. Up to this point he's immune to it.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Well lets put it this way, there have been a few times when Juggs has been able to increase his strength. That comic posted was one. You posted "power-pickup" as if that made Hulk instantly stronger than Juggs. Hulk could have been weaker than him and still have thrown him like he did. He just lifted 900lbs nothing special about that.


Any super strong character can lift 900lbs of deadweight. Your right on that.

However, how easy is it to lift 900lbs above your head when it is trying punch, kick, and wrestle you to the ground? How easy is it to lift that 900lbs above your head when that 900lbs it is just as strong, fast, and as powerful as you are? How easy is it to lift that 900lbs above your head when it is fighting against you and resisting you with its own class 100 strength that matches your own?

THEN, then when you've finally managed to actually lift that 900lbs above your head despite all that, how easy is it to spin it, monologue and tell it that your tired of fighting with it, and then, with that one arm, send it crashing into a mountain?


I mean look at this scan. Its downright comical how the Hulk is handling the Juggernaut with one arm. He's spinning Juggernaut so fast it looks like a blur. And he actually has time to monologue to the Juggernaut while doing it!

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1199/downrightcomicalns1.jpg

I know Hulk isn't very popular on KMC forums, but you gotta give Hulk credit sometimes!

(OK. I am done. I am not going to reply in this thread anymore and turn it into another Hulk vs Juggernaut debate. We have a thread for that.)

-Evangel94

What Hulk did there isn't that impressive. He could do that to pretty much anyone he got his hands on.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Juggernaut has never been seriously damaged by physical force. Up to this point he's immune to it. yeah basically what im saying juggernaut is pretty much immune to physical harm because he has:
Armor or watever , extreme durability, almost unstoppable motion, a force field, a healing factor. thats great and everything but its still a far cry from complete immunity to physical force. im not a juggernaut hater but saying hes completely invulnerable to physical harm is just retarded

Evangel94, it isn't that hard to do. Juggs was behind him putting his knee in his back. Hulk caught him by surprise and spun him (Juggs thought he was weakening, then all of a sudden he had more power). Monologuing isn't that impressive either, Deadpool does it all the time. Plus, who said Juggs was using all of his strength at the time? Hulk doesn't use all of his strength most of the time either.

It isn't hard for someone small and weaker to catch someone off guard and maneuver them. Look at highly trained martial artiest they do it all the time.

I found the scan funny too, especially the diagram of Juggs flight path. But I'm not trying to turn it into a Hulk vs Juggernaut fight either. I never said either is stronger than the other or which would win.

Originally posted by h1a8
Terrax can't destroy a planet. If he did then it was most certainly due to
some other power or plot device. Second, there is no proof that Jugs can
even be hurt by physical force. How do you like them apples?

In HoG#1, after being drained of basically all his energy Terrax reduces the planet he's on to rubble in one axe swing.

Anyway, when WWH dented his helmet with his fist that wasn't physical force?

His helmet isn't as durable as he is

It still proves physical force does work against him. If it didn't Hulk wouldn't have been able to do anything.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
It still proves physical force does work against him. If it didn't Hulk wouldn't have been able to do anything. I can cut Superman's cape with a knife. By your logic I can cut Superman with a knife.

Originally posted by Evangel94


I'm not responding in this thread anymore!

Thank god!!

BFR or stalemate.

Originally posted by Mindset
First scans Hulk didn't even harm Juggs, so...

How much did the celestial tech augment Hulk's powers?
The Celestial Tech didn't "augment" Hulk's powers. it regulated them.
remember that Apocalypse got hold of that Hulk because The Celestial Tech stated that Hulk's energies could be a threat to The Celestials (ie, that they were of an order of magnitude significant enough to cause concern to The Celestials).

Apocalypse wanted to turn Hulk into a weapon for his own scheming against The Celestials (and as usual he got nowhere with his 'plans').

Hulk as WarHulk was more regulated Hulk, tapping into the energies of the nexus (the universes flowing through Hulk - Franklin's pocket universe and Hulk's regular dimension/universe from which he gets his infinite energies). also, War Hulk could not amp, if I recall correctly, so that he was only capable of a certain (though insanely high) level of strength.

Originally posted by janus77
The Celestial Tech didn't "augment" Hulk's powers. it regulated them.
remember that Apocalypse got hold of that Hulk because The Celestial Tech stated that Hulk's energies could be a threat to The Celestials (ie, that they were of an order of magnitude significant enough to cause concern to The Celestials).

Apocalypse wanted to turn Hulk into a weapon for his own scheming against The Celestials (and as usual he got nowhere with his 'plans').

Hulk as WarHulk was more regulated Hulk, tapping into the energies of the nexus (the universes flowing through Hulk - Franklin's pocket universe and Hulk's regular dimension/universe from which he gets his infinite energies). also, War Hulk could not amp, if I recall correctly, so that he was only capable of a certain (though insanely high) level of strength. The Hulk's strength was augmented as stated by the editors of Marvel.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
The Hulk's strength was augmented as stated by the editors of Marvel.
scans?

as far as I'm aware, from reading the comic, it was just a case of the Celestial Tech tapping into the energies he already had and regulating them, not adding to them.

Originally posted by janus77
scans?

as far as I'm aware, from reading the comic, it was just a case of the Celestial Tech tapping into the energies he already had and regulating them, not adding to them. Read the fan mail pages from issue #461. The editor said like twice that Hulk's strength was amped.

Originally posted by Mindset
FL was willing to kill the people in NY who sprayed him with water...
The was one of the crappiest comic books ever made, SPIDER-MAN Beating a herald, CRAP.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Read the fan mail pages from issue #461. The editor said like twice that Hulk's strength was amped.
and that amping was from where?
read the comics and it shows and says that Hulk's nexus energies were being tapped into, through The Celestial Tech.


it's just the energies of the two universes that flow through Hulk, nothing more. you need evidence to back up your assertion that it was otherwise, because the comic and Apoc certainly don't suggest that.

Originally posted by K3VIL
The was one of the crappiest comic books ever made, SPIDER-MAN Beating a herald, CRAP.

Spiderman was training with Wolverine earlier that day, he had a power boost.

Originally posted by janus77
and that amping was from where?
read the comics and it shows and says that Hulk's nexus energies were being tapped into, through The Celestial Tech.


it's just the energies of the two universes that flow through Hulk, nothing more. you need evidence to back up your assertion that it was otherwise, because the comic and Apoc certainly don't suggest that.

Hulk was drawing power from a pocket dimension thanks to the Celestial tech.

I can show you 2 scans from Green Mail (A Marvel owned mail in site) that says Hulk's power was amped by the Celestial tech.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Hulk was drawing power from a pocket dimension thanks to the Celestial tech.

I can show you 2 scans from Green Mail (A Marvel owned mail in site) that says Hulk's power was amped by the Celestial tech.
in the words of loveable Irish leprechauns everywhere "ye iiiiiiijit!".

The Celestial Tech was siphoning and regulating the nexus energies that Hulk was ALREADY channeling, it gave him nothing he didn't already have, just stabilised it and made it so that he was permanently on a high setting.

read the comic, no wait, LEARN TO READ. yeah the capitals are wasted on you, seeing as you can't comprehend but... oh well, a parent or guardian might happen by whilst you're on your laptop and look over your shoulder at what it is that has you so befuddled, then they might explain it for you

Well the point is the Celestial tech made him stronger than usual.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well the point is the Celestial tech made him stronger than usual.

How do you make someone with infinite strength stronger? awesome

Originally posted by janus77
in the words of loveable Irish leprechauns everywhere "ye iiiiiiijit!".

The Celestial Tech was siphoning and regulating the nexus energies that Hulk was ALREADY channeling, it gave him nothing he didn't already have, just stabilised it and made it so that he was permanently on a high setting.

read the comic, no wait, LEARN TO READ. yeah the capitals are wasted on you, seeing as you can't comprehend but... oh well, a parent or guardian might happen by whilst you're on your laptop and look over your shoulder at what it is that has you so befuddled, then they might explain it for you
No need to start insulting people. That's the sure sign of a small mind.

Originally posted by batdude123
How do you make someone with infinite strength stronger? awesome hulk doesnt have infinite strength

Originally posted by Lumby
hulk doesnt have infinite strength

You sir, suck at detecting sarcasm.

Originally posted by batdude123
How do you make someone with infinite strength stronger? awesome

I'm guessing you're joking.

Originally posted by Mindset
First, I already said he doesn't need to go lightspeed, it's in the post you quoted...

Second, what sense does it make to be able to move at lightspeed if you can't react to obstacles in front of you, every asteroid etc. isn't an AU away...

So again, what's stopping FL from going supersonic speeds pick Juggs up from behind and fly into space. He could go fast enough to be beyond Juggs reaction speed, but slow enough to not damage the Earth significantly.

There is a vast difference between the distances of asteroids in space than battlefield distance. So you can't equate the two as the same.
Second, even if FL flies at supersonic speeds it would still take a long time to even reach space. Hell, it takes at least 1 second just to reach space traveling at the speed of light. But since FL flies at only supersonic speeds Juggs would have grabbed FL and rung his neck like a rag doll on the way.

Originally posted by Lumby
found! hulk beats down juggzor physixaly.

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4010/172203ch.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4814/172214lw.jpg

and here

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

hulk

I can beat the hell out of some titanium but not put a scratch on it.
Hulk didn't damage Juggs one ounce. So you didn't prove anything.

Originally posted by Lumby
i misread the scans, ill find a handbook entry on him or something, i mean seriously immune to physical harm is such bullshit fanboyism hes got very high end durability is all

Yet there is no instance where he has been hurt by pure physical force.
So I fail miserably to see how this is fanboyism.

Also rule number 1:

Someone has an exact power that's mentioned in their bios and or panel until it has been shown contrary. Juggs never had an Until yet.

Originally posted by Lumby
Again my fault, im very slightly dyslexic. but dude honestly i can dig up 20 more of those things and i bet donuts they say high-end durability or nigh-invulnerable. juggernaut is a beast and definitely has IMMENSE durability but hes nowhere near invulnerable. even suggesting so is just ugly fanboyism and yes bullshit.

here's an old source. Its from OHOTMU. Notice it says totally indestructible.

http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-juggernaut.html

Originally posted by h1a8
I can beat the hell out of some titanium but not put a scratch on it.
Hulk didn't damage Juggs one ounce. So you didn't prove anything. I agree.

---

Also, I believe the question was raised earlier, and Firelord has destroyed a planet before... easily.

battles involving classic juggs suck.

Originally posted by h1a8
here's an old source. Its from OHOTMU. Notice it says totally indestructible.

http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-juggernaut.html that bio looks to be horribly outdated and it has him listed as class 90 so its not credible or accurate.

a newer handbook more up to date handbook
"the mystical energy of cytorrak also gave the juggernaut an extraordinary degree of resistance to all forms of injury."

juggernaut is totally indestructible except to magic, until proven other we are going to go by his bio and say that he is completely indestructible.

No hes not that bios obviously incredibly old outdated and like i said inaccurate. my bio (the newest one) says differently

"The mystical energy of cytorrak also gave the juggernaut an extraordinary degree of RESISTANCE to all forms of injury." -OHOTHMU-X-men 2005"

http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=invulnerablebullshitqf7.png

Originally posted by carver9
juggernaut is totally indestructible except to magic, until proven other we are going to go by his bio and say that he is completely indestructible.

Going by that logic non mystical MCE's and Abstracts couldn't kill him, which is BS.

Any type of close ranged physical combat = Juggernaut Win
Anything else Stalemate or BFR for Firelord.

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Going by that logic non mystical MCE's and Abstracts couldn't kill him, which is BS. yea exactly hes got high end durability, a force field and a healing factor saying hes got complete immunity to physical harm is just ludicrous bullshit

Originally posted by janus77


it's just the energies of the two universes that flow through Hulk, nothing more. you need evidence to back up your assertion that it was otherwise, because the comic and Apoc certainly don't suggest that.

Uh, read what Apoc says in this scan (was posted a page earlier)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/hulk457-stopsjuggernaut.jpg

Now that you've put that incredible reading might of your's in to good use, what do you learn? 1. He's talking about the might of the Celestials being put to test against Jugnut 2. He's not talking about Hulk's might being put to a test against Jugnut. 3. What can we learn from this?

Originally posted by Lumby
yea exactly hes got high end durability, a force field and a healing factor saying hes got complete immunity to physical harm is just ludicrous bullshit

Please tell me, who do you think could harm Classic Juggernaut by punching him?

(I do agree with you, I think. Anyone who's above Cyttorak in power should be able to defeat Juggernaut. So I don't believe fed Galactus would lose against him in a fight)

Juggy has been hurt by fire before... Firelord is the lord of fire...

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
Please tell me, who do you think could harm Classic Juggernaut by punching him?

(I do agree with you, I think. Anyone who's above Cyttorak in power should be able to defeat Juggernaut. So I don't believe fed Galactus would lose against him in a fight) very few, definitely abstracts and such, any galaxy buster could or a star buster probably could.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Juggy has been hurt by fire before... Firelord is the lord of fire...

Uhhh when?

When Nightcrawler threw a chandelier at him.

This is for Janus77. According to Marvel themselves Hulks strength was amped. Read the 3rd and 4th questions.

http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hulk461cu0.jpg

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
When Nightcrawler threw a chandelier at him.

That seems contradictory considering Spider-Man once drove a gas tanker into the Juggernaut and was completely un-phased.

http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing4/Feat2a.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing4/Feat2b.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing4/Feat2c.jpg

OK.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I agree.

---

Also, I believe the question was raised earlier, and Firelord has destroyed a planet before... easily.

No he didn't. Destroy a planet means make it explode by default.

Originally posted by Lumby
No hes not that bios obviously incredibly old outdated and like i said inaccurate. my bio (the newest one) says differently

"The mystical energy of cytorrak also gave the juggernaut an extraordinary degree of RESISTANCE to all forms of injury." -OHOTHMU-X-men 2005"

http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=invulnerablebullshitqf7.png

your source has errors too. So I guess it's inaccurate too.
But know this, extraordinary could mean that Juggs is immune to anything universal. So no one under LT or a multiversal can harm him.

Originally posted by h1a8
No he didn't. Destroy a planet means make it explode by default. He basically vaporised the whole thing that I recall...

Originally posted by h1a8
your source has errors too. So I guess it's inaccurate too.
But know this, extraordinary could mean that Juggs is immune to anything universal. So no one under LT or a multiversal can harm him.

I think it's pretty apparent cosmic level characters can hurt him if War Hulk could, and definitely anyone at or above Cytorrak's powers could.

Originally posted by h1a8
your source has errors too. So I guess it's inaccurate too.
But know this, extraordinary could mean that Juggs is immune to anything universal. So no one under LT or a multiversal can harm him. so pretty much galactus, eternity, death other abstracts etc. odin, dormammu, mephisto etc. all fodder to the mighty juggernaut?


Lumby agrees

Originally posted by Mindset
I think it's pretty apparent cosmic level characters can hurt him if War Hulk could, and definitely anyone at or above Cytorrak's powers could.

As I said previously Juggernaut walked right through a herald level beings cosmic blasts as if they were nothing.

How does one go about judging how powerful Cytorrak is? In one comic it said that he was on a rampage and, had to be banished to the Crimson Cosmos because he was going to destroy reality, and this was because the ancient deities could not stop him. Then Juggernaut pwns his master in one of the most CIS filled comics ever written??? Could it have been another Darkseid thing that it wasn't the real Cytorrak, but just an Avatar or Herald of the deity?

At any rate if Juggernaut got his hands on Firelord he would kill him. Thor's beaten Firelord, Hercules has shown that he can take the heat of a greater flame wielder than Firelord (Frankie Ray aka Nova) and Cain has better body armor than the two combined.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
As I said previously Juggernaut walked right through a herald level beings cosmic blasts as if they were nothing.

Good thing heralds aren't cosmic level characters.

I mean Galactus, etc.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
As I said previously Juggernaut walked right through a herald level beings cosmic blasts as if they were nothing. Who?

Originally posted by Mindset
Good thing heralds aren't cosmic level characters.

I mean Galactus, etc.

I figured you meant this since you mentioned War Hulk and his Celestial tech.

Originally posted by Lumby
so pretty much galactus, eternity, death other abstracts etc. odin, dormammu, mephisto etc. all fodder to the mighty juggernaut?


Lumby agrees

Juggs can be beaten by bfr, psionic force, mystical force, or even taking away his enchantment (mystical means). The guys you listed can do at least one of these things. But no one under universal can break Juggs skin by using purely physical force. The crimson bands of cyttorak holds the universe together. That is where Juggs power comes from. So you would have to be multiversal to overpower the might of a universal bond.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
He basically vaporised the whole thing that I recall...

Under his own cosmic power without any plot device?
I don't believe it. Proof please.

Originally posted by Mindset
I think it's pretty apparent cosmic level characters can hurt him if War Hulk could, and definitely anyone at or above Cytorrak's powers could.

No one has hurt Juggs physically, not even War Hulk.