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I mean, I know Obi Wan is good, but if he was THAT good he should be pretty much equal to Dooku, but everytime he fights Dooku, he somehow gets injured!

Who cares why he cant?

Why cant Qui Gon beat Maul? Qui Gon is a Master, Maul is an apprentice.
Who cares? It happened, get over it

Sir Mist is wise, listen to him...

Listen to me carefully:



You want to bring me a cookie

Originally posted by Sir Mist
Who cares why he cant?

Why cant Qui Gon beat Maul? Qui Gon is a Master, Maul is an apprentice.
Who cares? It happened, get over it

No offence but where's your imagination? It's fun to think about stuff like this and to compare characters. How can you enjoy a movie unless you think about why things happened the way they did?

Anyway, the reason Kenobi lost both times is due to several reasons:

1. Kenobi is smart and often wins by out-thinking his foes. Dooku was too intelligent to be out-thought.

2. Dooku's fighting style was created specifically to go against other lightsabre-users. Read the AOTC novel, it says how Dooku is able to overcome Kenobi's attacks with little effort.

3. Dooku is more experienced and more powerful in the Force.

Look at other Kenobi fights:

Maul- lost because he got cocky
Anakin- lost because Kenobi knew all his moves
Grievous- lost because he didn't have the Force.

i think its a damn good question.

obiwan wasnt just beaten, got b1tch slapped. TWICE
then he goes on to defeat the man who b1tch slapped the b1tch slapper, with not so much as a scratch when its all over.
luck? no such thing as luck.

and as far as quigon, yes he was a master, but maul was just....better.
maybe it was because quigon was no spring chicken.

And they hadn't seen a sith for a millenia.

maybe obi-wan cannot beat dooku bcos dooku was his master's former master. so it would not make qui-gon look good. qui-gon cannot defeat maul while obi-wan could was bcos that was the only way for obi-wan to kill maul..after being angered by the aggression of the Sith. AND they had to kill offf qui-gon's character remember..so what better way than to show him, a great jedi, to be the first in a millenium to fall victim to a Sith. It kinda put worth and good credentials to obi-wan doesn't it, for he himself was to be a great jedi.

Originally posted by PVS
i think its a damn good question.

obiwan wasnt just beaten, got b1tch slapped. TWICE
then he goes on to defeat the man who b1tch slapped the b1tch slapper, with not so much as a scratch when its all over.
luck? no such thing as luck.

and as far as quigon, yes he was a master, but maul was just....better.
maybe it was because quigon was no spring chicken.

ah but you and many others keep forgetting that Obi-Wan did not defeat Anakin on Mustafar, ANAKIN defeated Anakin. Simple as that.

Err... though in any actual way, Obi-Wan did. Besides which. Obi-Wan was giving out as good as he got throughout the fight.

Sabre duels are like tennis matches. You can't select one 'better' person who will always win. Nick Gilliard direvtly said that the better person does not always win. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan was ahead of Anakin in the mental game, which is why he could beat him, regardless of Anakin's skill.

fighting is about knowledge. not about power

Had Anakin not let his emotions get the best of him he would have prevailed Ush. Surely you cant discount that.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Had Anakin not let his emotions get the best of him he would have prevailed Ush. Surely you cant discount that.

and had he refused to let his emotions get the best of him, dooku very well could have beat him

EU Explanation: Dooku changed his fighting style trying to turn Anakin and he failed because of that.

Movie explanation: Dooku was cocky during the fight, he thought he could take Anakin with ease and he failed becuase of that. Also Obi Wan knew everything there was to know about Anakin and beat him because of that. Dooku knew nothing of Anakin and couldn't play the mind game as well as Obi Wan could.

Originally posted by PVS
and had he refused to let his emotions get the best of him, dooku very well could have beat him

True enough PVS.

Hummm...

I think it has to do with uninhibited submission to the dark side. And, let's not forget that Palpatine knew that Anakin would come for him. And while I hate having to make assumptions to find logic in the prequel trilogy, do not forget that Palpatine is the master of the dark side. His ability to be manipulative, as well as deceptive, can not be discounted. Dooku seemed to want Obi-Wan out of commison from the beginning of the duel. Palpatine most likely wanted Obi-Wan out of the way, so that he could encourage Anakin to kill Dooku. And, conversly, Palpatine is likely the one who told Dooku to get him out of the way; that Anakin could be more easily defeated with Obi-Wan out of the duel. That much is apparent, in that Palpatine encouraged Anakin to leave Obi-Wan behind when they made their escape. Even if Dooku had killed Obi-Wan, then Palpatine knew that Anakin would have become enraged and killed Dooku anyway. (which is why Dooku collapses the catwalk on Obi-Wan, despite him being unconscious) Either way Palpatine wins.


As for Dooku beating Obi-Wan in AOTC, Dooku sensed Anakins power. And being that sensative to the dark side, Dooku felt the need to eliminate Anakin as early as possible. And, Obi-Wan was rightfully not as powerful as Dooku.

Obi-Wan was practically beaten by Maul, becuase his anger allowed him to tap into teh darkside. Once Obi-Wan took a mental step back, and calmed himself...he took the fight.

But, Dooku has always struck me as a fallen Jedi, more like Vader, than he did a Sith along the lines of Maul. We can assume that Maul has been a Sith forever. And, like Vader, Dooku had the benefit of self restraint and better control. Dooku's age did influence his ability to truely become a Master Sith. Anakin was at the perfect age, where he had already been told about his potential, but wasn't so engrained in his ways that he couldn't fall totally. Like Maul or Palpatine.

all well and good, but why would dooku want to encourage anakin to use his anger and hate? why did dooku give a look like someone shit in his cornflakes when he cut anakin's hand off?

imho, anakin was the prize. both dooku and palps wanted to control him. he was the key to controlling everything. dooku wanted palps out of the way and vice versa. they were playing the same game that vader and palps played with luke. like two people saying simultaniously to a dog "COME HERE BOY!!! C'MON!!!! C'MON BOY!!!" to see which one it would choose.

Originally posted by PVS
all well and good, but why would dooku want to encourage anakin to use his anger and hate? why did dooku give a look like someone shit in his cornflakes when he cut anakin's hand off?

imho, anakin was the prize. both dooku and palps wanted to control him. he was the key to controlling everything. dooku wanted palps out of the way and vice versa. they were playing the same game that vader and palps played with luke. like two people saying simultaniously to a dog "COME HERE BOY!!! C'MON!!!! C'MON BOY!!!" to see which one it would choose.


If they both wanted to control him...for his power...then Dooku wouldn't have been suprised when Palpatine ordered Anakin to kill him. In point of fact, he would have expected nothing less of a Sith. And again, I see Palpatines influence in Dooku's goading. Dooku knows Anakin to be the Jedi hero he's been made out to be.

I don't doubt that Dooku would have assumed that the progression of the Sith would happen the same way it always had, and that he would one day take Palpatines place. But, it would serve no real purpose to do so, in light of the fact that there can only be two at any one time.

And while Vader attempts the same thing with Luke and Palpatine, he knows from teh beginning that he will die, if Luke follows the Emperor rather than himself. So, Dooku wouldn't have tried it in front of Palpatine, if he had known it meant his own death. And, certainly in both cases, it would have been two against one. One being Palpatine. Two being Luke and Vader or Anakin and Dooku.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Err... though in any actual way, Obi-Wan did. Besides which. Obi-Wan was giving out as good as he got throughout the fight.

Sabre duels are like tennis matches. You can't select one 'better' person who will always win. Nick Gilliard direvtly said that the better person does not always win. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan was ahead of Anakin in the mental game, which is why he could beat him, regardless of Anakin's skill.

Exactly. In any kind of confrontation there are always various factors to consider. Terrain, state of mind etc. Sometimes the person who is more skilled or experienced may lose due to circumstances. As you say, the 'better' person will not win every single time.

Plus, in AOTC, you have to remember that Kenobi was weary from fighting in the arena.

Originally posted by Sir Mist
Who cares why he cant?

Why cant Qui Gon beat Maul? Qui Gon is a Master, Maul is an apprentice.
Who cares? It happened, get over it Is that you guilty, Democratic, corrupt member of Congress who stole $100 million of tax money and told the country to, "Forget it, it's over with, why dwell on what happened last week?"

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Had Anakin not let his emotions get the best of him he would have prevailed Ush. Surely you cant discount that.

Anakin was a bit blinded by his rage, but Obi-Wan simply knew Anakin too well, and knew he would mess up at some point. He tends to do that.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Had Anakin not let his emotions get the best of him he would have prevailed Ush. Surely you cant discount that.


He can't....



But i can.


Anakin sucked when he fought without emotion. Asajj would have schooled him and Dooku would have schooled him... When Anakin gets mad, he is a better fighter. Kenobi is just smarter and wiser all around. Anakin sucks it.