Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I don't understand where nightwing should be placed on the heirachy of hand to hand combat.....
we have the big leagues up the top eg. people like (you may not agre with this order but its irrelevant for what i would like to know)

karate kid
Deathstroke
Lady shiva

Batman comes near to the top (IMO)


then towards the bottom we have people wih very basic hand to hand combat like

your average X-man character
A basic guard or Mafia ninja bloke


Where does Nightwing come into all this? which sort of peopel is he level with in terms of fighting skills?

Nightwing fighting skills are just below the Batman's

so he is better than say...wolverine in fighting skills? cos some people argue thats bats is a better fighter than wolvie..........

Originally posted by willRules
so he is better than say...wolverine in fighting skills? cos some people argue thats bats is a better fighter than wolvie.......... He's good enough to take down the Joker with ease which Batgirl... both versions.. were unable to do.

But in Bruce Wayne Murder you find that he's not even good enough to hit Batman if Batman's not letting him.

Hmm so we know he is better than Batgirl but isnt as good as Batman....is he a better or worse fighter than captain America? Wolverine? Cyclops?

But on the contrary, he's not good enough to take down lady shiva, which ONLY batgirl and batman have been able to do. He goes toe to toe with Deathstroke in a pretty even match every rip, Slade usually wins though.

thats werd his feats seem to put him all over the place in terms of skills.....

Originally posted by willRules
thats werd his feats seem to put him all over the place in terms of skills..... After this group of people though, there's not many that can come close hand to hand combat. He is also considered nearly an exact even match for Arsenal who is master level with anything he picks up, be it a pair of nunchaku or bic pen, a gun or a DVD.

i am also a master of the DVD

so nightwing is underrated on these forums?

........

Originally posted by willRules



so nightwing is underrated on these forums?
Yes. I'd put him around Daredevil level.

cool anyone else got any ideas for this?

what about connor hawke heard he is a very good

and robin

Connor's supposed to be very good, but I haven't seen anything of the like, Winnick's treated him like shit.

Daredevil level? Nah I think he's better than him.

karate kid
Deathstroke
Lady shiva/ Batman/ cap America
Wolverine?
Daredevil
Nightwing
Connor Hawke
Ollie Queen
Cyclops
Robin
then towards the bottom we have people with very basic hand to hand combat like

your average X-man character
A basic guard or Mafia ninja bloke

Do you agree with this list? where do you think Nightwing comes on this list and where do you think he SHOULD be put?

Originally posted by willRules
karate kid
Deathstroke
Lady shiva/ Batman/ cap America
Wolverine?
Daredevil
Nightwing
Connor Hawke
Ollie Queen
Cyclops
Robin
then towards the bottom we have people with very basic hand to hand combat like

your average X-man character
A basic guard or Mafia ninja bloke

I agree with this list. Although Connor Hawke should be higher. Above Daredevil and Wolverine. Nightwing is the most agile of this bunch, though.

And Ollie Queen is the lowest in skill.

Originally posted by willRules
karate kid
Deathstroke
Lady shiva/ Batman/ cap America
Wolverine?
Daredevil
Nightwing
Connor Hawke
Ollie Queen
Cyclops
Robin
then towards the bottom we have people with very basic hand to hand combat like

your average X-man character
A basic guard or Mafia ninja bloke


yeah that's a pretty good list

"He's good enough to take down the Joker with ease which Batgirl... both versions.. were unable to do."

Straight h2h or the kind of fight where the Joker plans and makes it work.

"But on the contrary, he's not good enough to take down lady shiva, which ONLY batgirl and batman have been able to do. He goes toe to toe with Deathstroke in a pretty even match every rip, Slade usually wins though"

Batman never won a straight figth against Shiva.

Against Slade, here is how Batgirl dealt with him.

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/9941/060cy.jpg
http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/7825/071in.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4892/083ga.jpg
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/9648/099qp.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9794/109ck1.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7725/113nb.jpg

About Connor, he has less h2h showings than Grayson, but the ones he has easily get him above.

Batman aint equal to Shiva btw. Thats Dragon and Tiger.

wow col cheers for the pics. Do you ghave any where Nightwing fights Deathstroke?

No, but if i do, ll post. Im curious to see how good he did.

so am i. Deathstroke is so way outta his league but part of me wants to see Nightwing get a couple of good punches in. I know they fought twice in a storyline between Nightwing issues 80-82, but the fights werent given good reviews. The first fight nightwing got shot in the arm, and in the second one it was a short fight and Nightwing was forced to pay slade to go away...........but I heard they fought very recently and I want to see pics of that one...........

Batgirl "Dealt with"?

She got her ass beat.

When they fight again in Batgirl 62-63, he comments about how he held back last time, and he totally dominates her.

And he was still holding back, even batgirl said "He's holding back! Why??".

The reason they faught the first time was partially about Slade wanting to find a good sparring partner for his daughter, Ravager.

"Batgirl "Dealt with"?

She got her ass beat."

You dont have a single scene in that fight that says anyone got his ass beat.

Its how good she did compared with Grayson the call here. Not if Deathstroke its overall better than the likes of her and Batman.

Originally posted by Juntai
After this group of people though, there's not many that can come close hand to hand combat. He is also considered nearly an exact even match for Arsenal who is master level with anything he picks up, be it a pair of nunchaku or bic pen, a gun or a DVD.


your talkin about weapons and not H2H right?....coz if it's h2h than arsenal isn;t gonna stand a chance,

nightwing is so underrated is makes me sick, and that goes 10x for arsenal

Arsenal underrated, how? H2H?

He was never suposse to be a top martial artist contender.

Nightwing OTOH is damn good, but not top of the cream.

If there is something he exceels anyone else its acrobatics with perhaps the exception of Boston Brand, the Deadman.

well i meant more underappreciated, but to me underrated and underappreciated are pretty much of the same thing..arsenal is always getting his ass handed to him, the writers make him make him look like an ass by making him make bad decisions all the time, he doesnt have to be a top martial artists, he's a superhero, he just needs to kick ass, which he doesn't do as nearly as much as he gets his ass kicked

Now if you mean underappreciated i totally agree. Especially considering how the last years of bad writting Grayson had on his title.

Arsenal should be writen as second better than Green Arrow in long range shots and that including also weapons. Connor might be his son but he hardly has the experience that Roy does.

I think Nightwing is about to become Red Robin from Kingdom Come.. in his issue with Deathstroke, he dons a new red suit, and they were trying to come up with a new nickname for him... that and his series is arguably becoming grimier than even Batman's story. He's deep in the underbelly of crime.

Originally posted by willRules
so am i. Deathstroke is so way outta his league but part of me wants to see Nightwing get a couple of good punches in. I know they fought twice in a storyline between Nightwing issues 80-82, but the fights werent given good reviews. The first fight nightwing got shot in the arm, and in the second one it was a short fight and Nightwing was forced to pay slade to go away...........but I heard they fought very recently and I want to see pics of that one........... In the new issue, Nightwing comes running across the furniture of the apartment and steps up and onto back of and over a chair and punches Deathstroke who was standing in the doorway leaning against the wall with his arms crossed, and just keeps trying to relentlessly attack him... grabs him and twists his arms backwards while shuffling around behind him then grabs him the back of his head and slams his face into the mirror.. . .. . . . .. and then Deathstroke dodges a blow, steps around behind him and drops him in one kick and he lays on the floor with blood pouring out of his mouth until DS helps him back to his feet.

Originally posted by willRules
karate kid
Deathstroke
Lady shiva/ Batman/ cap America
Wolverine?
Daredevil
Nightwing
Connor Hawke
Ollie Queen
Cyclops
Robin
then towards the bottom we have people with very basic hand to hand combat like

your average X-man character
A basic guard or Mafia ninja bloke
This is off course all very debatable, but I think that Wolverine is roughly the same level than Batman and Cap America.

Karate Kid sucks (yeah only my opinion, but still...). And DD and Nightwing have the same fighting skills (again, roughly).

I always found Robin a bit overrated, and Cyclops is a good fighter, but doesn't exactly belong on a list like this.

well its a very rough list. can you make a better one?

Originally posted by willRules
well its a very rough list. can you make a better one?
How much do I get paid ?

I made mine for free

Originally posted by Mainstream
Nightwing fighting skills are just below the Batman's yeah but he is faster but less strong

even If rumours about his sexuality are going round

They're not too consistant with their martial artists.

This kind of reminds me of everyone complaining about Green Arrow chumping the Question on the JLU cartoon because the Question is supposed to be one of the greatest martial artists in DC.

What I want to know is who ISN'T one of the greatest martial artists in DC?

Cartoon isent comic cannon.

Who isent? Question is in the top 20 but not the top cream.

Huntress too.

Savante also.

Wildcat? Martial artist wise hes not the best.

Nigthwing its more of a flashy figther/acrobat. Hes not the best at h2h either.

Arsenal has no bussiness at all to even compete in h2h. Neither Green Arrow (Ollie), they are mostly brawlers with learned moves.

Originally posted by olympian
Cartoon isent comic cannon.

Who isent? Question is in the top 20 but not the top cream.

Huntress too.

Savante also.

Wildcat? Martial artist wise hes not the best.

Nigthwing its more of a flashy figther/acrobat. Hes not the best at h2h either.

Arsenal has no bussiness at all to even compete in h2h. Neither Green Arrow (Ollie), they are mostly brawlers with learned moves. Arsenal trained with monks in every weapon skill. Fistfighting he's above most, but if he has ANY weapon in his hand, he's pimp.

Originally posted by Juntai
In the new issue, Nightwing comes running across the furniture of the apartment and steps up and onto back of and over a chair and punches Deathstroke who was standing in the doorway leaning against the wall with his arms crossed, and just keeps trying to relentlessly attack him... grabs him and twists his arms backwards while shuffling around behind him then grabs him the back of his head and slams his face into the mirror.. . .. . . . .. and then Deathstroke dodges a blow, steps around behind him and drops him in one kick and he lays on the floor with blood pouring out of his mouth until DS helps him back to his feet.

cool got any pics of it?

Originally posted by willRules
cool got any pics of it? I don't have a scanner.

"Arsenal trained with monks in every weapon skill"

Like Ollie did. Thats exactly what im talking about. Theyr mastery its with weapons not empty hand.

If you do a DC MA top list, he is going to be above than some. But the moment you start to nail from the top 20 to the very best, he doesnt make it.