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This isn't that important to me, but it seems that the D.C. battles are far more Impressive. Take the recent fight between Wonder Woman and Superman. Everything seems to be on a grander scale. Do you think Marvel fights need revamping ?

N.B. This is only considering the Higher Tier Characters.

Surfer could probably do that.

I think it's just that DC's ladder has like 5 rungs and Marvel's ladder goes to 4 stories.

No.

Both have planet busting moments, cosmos busting moments, pll getting punched out of orbit and hitting a planet blah blah.

The difference resides in the quantity of stories where that happens. Dc has more.

DC's "average" level of power in its stories seems higher. But then, the advantage goes to Marvel in believability. It's far easier for me to grasp Hulk tossing a tank than Superman towing a moon.

That picture of Superman looks stupid.

It does...take a look at his arms.

I think that DC show off their powerful characters and hype them up much more than marvel does wit theirs. but I still prefer to read marvel comics because they can still tell a good story and still have some Good action scenes without seeing cosmic entity's blowing up planets every other panel.............

Originally posted by willRules
I think that DC show off their powerful characters and hype them up much more than marvel does wit theirs. but I still prefer to read marvel comics because they can still tell a good story and still have some Good action scenes without seeing cosmic entity's blowing up planets every other panel............. It's all relevent to the titles you're reading.. people happen to like DC's JLA characters, so those are the ones you see and hear about a lot.

D.C just uses impossible feats more in Superman and such, since it's easier than telling good stories.

Originally posted by long pig
D.C just uses impossible feats more in Superman and such, since it's easier than telling good stories.

Heh. Or maybe because Superman can do the impossible...?

Well, someone had to say it.

I actually do believe Superman/WW/MM are much stronger.

Originally posted by long pig
Well, someone had to say it.

I actually do believe Superman/WW/MM are much stronger.

Seriously ?????????????

And your right that pic is stupid

Originally posted by yahman
Seriously ?????????????

And your right that pic is stupid

Bump !

Originally posted by Juntai
It's all relevent to the titles you're reading.. people happen to like DC's JLA characters, so those are the ones you see and hear about a lot.
Exactly. The most popular and recognizable characters in DC just happen to be moon busting powerhouses whereas in Marvel the most popular people are guys like Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Daredevil.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It does...take a look at his arms.

I thought his legs looked worse lol. The arms are still pretty bad though.

Originally posted by willRules
I think that DC show off their powerful characters and hype them up much more than marvel does wit theirs. but I still prefer to read marvel comics because they can still tell a good story and still have some Good action scenes without seeing cosmic entity's blowing up planets every other panel.............

agree

Originally posted by Mindship
DC's "average" level of power in its stories seems higher. But then, the advantage goes to Marvel in believability. It's far easier for me to grasp Hulk tossing a tank than Superman towing a moon.
consign that too

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
agree


consign that too

I think its a good thing you read comics for believability.

Never said i did but

reading a comic where some guy in spandex is conatanly doing overr the top feats and nigh omnipotent beings 90% of the time will get tiring, boring and won't amaze or suprise me anymore. Which is why a knid of stiop buying jla and opt for Avengers where it tries/used to balnce it out with storiesaand characters.

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
Never said i did but

reading a comic where some guy in spandex is conatanly doing overr the top feats and nigh omnipotent beings 90% of the time will get tiring, boring and won't amaze or suprise me anymore. Which is why a knid of stiop buying jla and opt for Avengers where it tries/used to balnce it out with storiesaand characters.

I disagree.

The JLA is about epic stories featuring the DC All-Stars. I read JLA for those epic stories. When I want to read about characters and how they relate to each other, I read the Titans and The Outsiders.

I think DC has covered their bases well with their crop of superteams.

Originally posted by Mindship
DC's "average" level of power in its stories seems higher. But then, the advantage goes to Marvel in believability. It's far easier for me to grasp Hulk tossing a tank than Superman towing a moon.

One thing abt JLA I like is the mysteriousness if Batman. The way others view him at times esp Superman

the thing about the twoing the moon.....damn.....that was an awesome arc with the white martians but to put thier strentgh in perspective just the platform that thpse huge chains were tethered had to have been the size of state, or at the very least a large , large city....then thiers your answer

When the DC Earth based heros are being compared to the Gods and Cosmic entities of Marvel. (Thor and Silver Surfer)

That pretty much answers it right there. . .

Superman and wonderwoman towing the moon, which weighs several thousand trillion tons. It just seems a little farcical and joke like. You may as well be reading popeye or mighty mouse. marvel years ago detected that their readership was becoming too sophisticated to accept feats of power that are hard to fit in with known physics. So you rarely get marvel guys lifting buildings anymore. The strength limit is listed as 100 tons or over (if the structral integrity of the object will allow). More realistic (still fanatsy), but you can relate to it more. Please consider that to heft 100 tons is pretty damn amazing

You're not implementing the TK factor. Holds the object together.

And there's nothing sophisticated about dragging an island without it crumbling to pieces under the stress.

Neither side is stronger than the other. More of the most powerful beings in Marvel are spread throughout the cosmos, where the Silver Surfer calls home, rather than on Earth in the spotlight all the time.
The two companies came along at different times with different styles. DC has a lot of single hero archetypes like Superman, Batman ( his complete opposite), Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern et all. If you had to name the most central characters in Marvel, you would have to say Spider-Man first - who was an original idea, but nowhere near most powerful - followed by Wolverine and the Hulk. Marvel redefined team books with The Fantastic Four and the X-Men. If you argue Superman is DC's central character, the fact he is one of the most powerful but Spider-Man is not is just different company philosophies, not power rankings. Do a checklist, and you could find an opposite number, with comparable power, for most all characters between DC and Marvel.
If Marvel is selling so many X-Men books because of stories of angst, prejudice and human struggle, it's not in their interest to get god-like stories messing with what sells.

"You're not implementing the TK factor. Holds the object together.

And there's nothing sophisticated about dragging an island without it crumbling to pieces under the stress."

Word. Neither are realistic.

Originally posted by Draco69
And there's nothing sophisticated about dragging an island without it crumbling to pieces under the stress.
There would be if he had his pinky out.

When you see a character do something completely over the top every now and then it's okay. But if they're doing something along the lines of lifting something that weighs several trillion tons or moving at 60,000 times the speed of light etc. every single day and issue it can get tedious - it kind of loses it's significance, it's oomph, it's je ne c'est quoi.

DC does tend to give it's most prominent heroes tons of power e.g. MM, he's an uber-TP, shapeshifter, uberstrong, durability, has superspeed, can fly, the abilities to go intangible and invisible, and basically has no exploitable weaknesses anymore. WW, is uberstrong, resistance to TP, resistance to magics, physical durability, can fly, superspeed, enchanted items, and eons of fighting skills, and also has no easily exploitable weaknesses.

There are characters of the same power level in Marvel but they aren't the Spider-Mans, Captain Americas and Wolverines - those most prominent.

Originally posted by Draco69
You're not implementing the TK factor. Holds the object together.

And there's nothing sophisticated about dragging an island without it crumbling to pieces under the stress.

sorry my picture of herc was meant to be followed by a rant about how b*llox it is. what is the chain pulling manhattan made of and what is it anchored to? which is why you rarely see this crap in marvel anymore

so ww and supes pulling the moon are now using telekenesis a hurried dc explantion to over come physics problems is a thin plot gimmick. this is a new power foisted on us. I don't read too much dc but has this tk thing ever been outright stated for these characters

the energy required to move the moon's mass (7.4 x 10 to the power of 22 kg 9 that is 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 tonnes) a kilometre is about the equivalent energy of 900 megaton nukes. the problem with this kind of power is it becomes hard to be consistent. there would be no earthly threat to this kind of power a battle between combatants with these power levels would have to be extremely tenative. if they used 1/900 of their energy in 1 go they could destroy a city. we know supes is supposed to hold back but surely not this much . if i only ever used 1 900th of my power the most i could ever lift would be a few ounces

"sorry my picture of herc was meant to be followed by a rant about how b*llox it is. what is the chain pulling manhattan made of and what is it anchored to? which is why you rarely see this crap in marvel anymore"

Made of the same material of the chain Superman used when he tried to help to move Earth.

Originally posted by severance
the energy required to move the moon's mass (7.4 x 10 to the power of 22 kg 9 that is 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 tonnes) a kilometre is about the equivalent energy of 900 megaton nukes. the problem with this kind of power is it becomes hard to be consistent. there would be no earthly threat to this kind of power a battle between combatants with these power levels would have to be extremely tenative. if they used 1/900 of their energy in 1 go they could destroy a city. we know supes is supposed to hold back but surely not this much this much. if i only ever used 1 900th of my power the most i could ever lift would be a few ounces

Well played mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im a bit of a statistics man. I know it doesn't really make sense does it.

Mate can you work out how much strength would be needed to Lift that 150 Billion ton mountain.

Originally posted by severance
the energy required to move the moon's mass (7.4 x 10 to the power of 22 kg 9 that is 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 tonnes) a kilometre is about the equivalent energy of 900 megaton nukes. the problem with this kind of power is it becomes hard to be consistent. there would be no earthly threat to this kind of power a battle between combatants with these power levels would have to be extremely tenative. if they used 1/900 of their energy in 1 go they could destroy a city. we know supes is supposed to hold back but surely not this much . if i only ever used 1 900th of my power the most i could ever lift would be a few ounces

explain to me how you know the kinetic energy of a "megaton" nuke?
Is that a one megaton nuke? or is it larger?

can I see your calculation as this is very incomplete and at the moment filed under nice try

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
explain to me how you know the kinetic energy of a "megaton" nuke?
Is that a one megaton nuke? or is it larger?

can I see your calculation as this is very incomplete and at the moment filed under nice try

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly



Thats was harsh

Originally posted by yahman


Thats was harsh

he might be right but the problem with his hole statement is that he gives no energy production calc or work done calc and as such I doubt it. I hope he proves me wrong - but given the figures he quoted which seem unlikely - I doubt it

Keep the faith


Stay Whirly

Its actually simple if you wnow the weight of the moon in Kg convert it to newtons then add a distance and you can work out the work done to move it that far in Joules.

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
he might be right but the problem with his hole statement is that he gives no energy production calc or work done calc and as such I doubt it. I hope he proves me wrong - but given the figures he quoted which seem unlikely - I doubt it

Keep the faith


Stay Whirly

I know what you mean .... thermal dynamics or something. My knowledge of less wierd physics is pretty limited.

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
Its actually simple if you wnow the weight of the moon in Kg convert it to newtons then add a distance and you can work out the work done to move it that far in Joules.

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

I.e Force = mass x acceleration. Its the turning it into joules part, i get lost with.

Sorry my calculations are way out (been a while since i was at school). It is roughly equal to 900,000 1 mega ton nukes

worked out as follows google the enrgy in megaton nuke find following url

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/MuhammadKaleem.shtml

energy of a 1 megaton nuke = 84 000 000 000 000 000 joules

kinetic energy = mass times distance
assuming supes moved the moon just 1 km I dunno i did not read the book

google mass of moon http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/AdaLi.shtml

moon mass 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 kg multiplied by distance in metres (1000) = 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 joules

divide the 74 000 000 .. etc by the 84 000 etc and you get 880,852,380.


anyhoo the case is worse for dc supes has only to use one billionth of his power to destroy a city. the guys a frickin nano surgeon of restraint

We are all aware that real world physics doesnt work in comics, arent we.

Otherwise Earth wouldnt last against many of the things we read about.

sorry my calculations don't take into account velocity the actual calculation for kinetic energy is half mass time velocity squared say supes was travelling the speed of sound then you need to multiply the energy used by another 45 thousand

HOW SAD AM I!!!! Enough of the physics (so sayeth former elementary teacher)

Originally posted by olympian
We are all aware that real world physics doesnt work in comics, arent we.

Otherwise Earth wouldnt last against many of the things we read about.

its called "willing suspension of disbelief"

it just depends how much disbelief you are willing to suspend or how well the writers can convince you with the "plausible" explanation.

personally i dont mind superman being able to kick hulk's (my favourite characters) arse. Vulnerable heroes are more interesting to me. I like the concept of a superhero with multiple powers like superman, but when he starts to move planets I lose interest

I totally understand. I just dont apply real physics. Nothing of what we read in comics, or at least 90% of them actually have a chance of being real.

When i read about Heracles helding the heavens, i take it for what it is.

A magical fantasy feat. With the great ability to marvel and "dream" about, but with no way for me to even -try- to contextualize "how" it was possible.

Just my point of view. I see where your getting at.

Originally posted by yahman
Well played mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im a bit of a statistics man. I know it doesn't really make sense does it.

Mate can you work out how much strength would be needed to Lift that 150 Billion ton mountain.

sh*t i have set my self up now as science officer. 150 billion tons held aloft on hulks massive shoulders. this is a potential energy difference of:

weight in kilos 150 000 000 000 000 x hulks height in meters 2.27 x accelration of gravity 9.8 m/s 2 = 3 336 900 000 000 000 joules thats every second he holds it aloft. Reed richards concocts a plan 5 mins
("come on Richards this is getting heavy"
"shaddap hulk dont be so gay"
"WHAT OOH THAT MAKES ME MAD!! HEY NOT SO HEAVY NOW!"
is about 11 mega tons

Originally posted by olympian
I totally understand. I just dont apply real physics. Nothing of what we read in comics, or at least 90% of them actually have a chance of being real.

When i read about Heracles helding the heavens, i take it for what it is.

A magical fantasy feat. With the great ability to marvel and "dream" about, but with no way for me to even -try- to contextualize "how" it was possible.

Just my point of view. I see where your getting at.

I respect your point of view. And i hope you keep on enjoying the fanatsy. I like herc too cos hes a braggard, a drunken lout and a ladies man. i can just about cope with him tossing Godzilla ( gotta be at least an 8000 ton feat ). moving manhattan makes me wince a little. holding up the world in my mind counts as hyperbole.

Originally posted by severance
Sorry my calculations are way out (been a while since i was at school). It is roughly equal to 900,000 1 mega ton nukes

worked out as follows google the enrgy in megaton nuke find following url

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/MuhammadKaleem.shtml

energy of a 1 megaton nuke = 84 000 000 000 000 000 joules

kinetic energy = mass times distance
assuming supes moved the moon just 1 km I dunno i did not read the book

google mass of moon http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/AdaLi.shtml

moon mass 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 kg multiplied by distance in metres (1000) = 74 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 joules

divide the 74 000 000 .. etc by the 84 000 etc and you get 880,852,380.


anyhoo the case is worse for dc supes has only to use one billionth of his power to destroy a city. the guys a frickin nano surgeon of restraint

your figures are still wrong but its ok

you need to think about inertia

The earths pull on the moon, the moons pull on the earth

the moons speed, the direction your moving it in -

good try though

Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
your figures are still wrong but its ok

you need to think about inertia

The earths pull on the moon, the moons pull on the earth

the moons speed, the direction your moving it in -

good try though

yes these are approximations dude i'm a history major, not physics. the calculations are meant to aproximate a point that if super beings of such power existed on the earth they need to learn how to play statues cos there slightest movement could cause an earthquake or tsunami. adding in the graviataioal atraction between earth and moon only strengthens my point

By the way mass in kg is a measurement of inertia thus already included in the calcuations

so everyone agrees. that shoving around the moon makes supes ww and gl power levels quite ridiculous and unworkable as they would almost never be able to do anything with wreaking havoc across the globe