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do you think that wolverine would have killed cyclops in ultimate x-men when they fought but when wolverine lunged at cyclops he was stoped by prof. x

Easily. Hand to Hand combat, Wolverine would kill any of the X-Men hands down. Even with his optic blasts, Wolverine still killed Cyclops in the simulations (early issues).

I'm not completely familiar with the Ultimate series, but how advanced is the Danger Room in this series? In regular 616 continuity, Danger Room mimicking an actual character and/or scenario is quite precise due to Shi'ar technology and whatnot. Wolverine, for example, lamented the accuracy of his dupe during a training session when Hell's Angel (later renamed Dark Angel due to copyright issues) was kicking it's butt.

The Ultimate danger room is identaical to the 616, if not better.

Firstly, there's no way he'd do what he did in the danger room in reality (ultimate reality ), even if he did kill cyclops, theres colossus, iceman and jean all baying for his blood...

Assuming Xavier didnt put him down in that other scenario, had cyclops not got a blast off he'd have most likely been killed...

and 616 danger room has shiar tech... i doubt the ultimate one can compare...

The Ultimate Universe, (which I will call U.U. for short) the danger room is surprisingly sophisticated and compares to the 616 danger room. How? No idea. Call up the U.U. writers. The simulation they ran, was realistic enough that Wolverine managed to kill every one (not sure if Jean participated in that though). Albeit, he cheated by using hostages and what not, but he did snap Cyclops scraggly little neck which gave me a chuckle. Remember, in the U.U. the X-Men are still very novice at the whole fighting thing, so Wolverine took full advantage of that.

Also, when Cyclops was fighting Wolverine, they agreed to "no powers", of course Scottie boy didn't know what he was going up against and after getting the bejesus kicked outta him, he used his powers. Needless to say the claws came out and he caught Cyclops by surprise and was very close to slicing and dicing him.

The danger room imo was nowhere near an accurate representation of the real x-men, he can't cut colossus that easily, and jean had feelings for scott, she'd have peeled logans mind like an orange...

cyclops only used his powers because he was forced to...

First, Adimantium > Steel. Second, at that point in the series, Jean had a huge crush on Logan. Lastly, I can't stress this enough, the X-men were complete novices and had not gone to a real fight yet. So they were totally disorganized.

Forced to? He threw the first punch and Wolvie kicked the bejesus outta him for it. Remember, U.U. Cyclops is not as mature as the 616 Cyclops.

Originally posted by kichiku_beihei
First, Adimantium > Steel. Second, at that point in the series, Jean had a huge crush on Logan. Lastly, I can't stress this enough, the X-men were complete novices and had not gone to a real fight yet. So they were totally disorganized.

Forced to? He threw the first punch and Wolvie kicked the bejesus outta him for it. Remember, U.U. Cyclops is not as mature as the 616 Cyclops.

In the Ultimate Timeline, especially in the early issues, Wolverine was already an experience fighter wheras the other X-Men were all neophytes.

Originally posted by Piedmon
In the Ultimate Timeline, especially in the early issues, Wolverine was already an experience fighter wheras the other X-Men were all neophytes.

Just try not to force similarities between the U.U. and 616 pr1983. Things are quite different. I.E. Collosus is gay, Kitty + Spiderman = . Gambit = Dead (presumably though). Beast is dead. Angel + Dazzler (she pwns btw) = . Emma Frost is not a raging whore with her jubblies hanging out . So on and so forth.

Originally posted by kichiku_beihei
First, Adimantium > Steel. Second, at that point in the series, Jean had a huge crush on Logan. Lastly, I can't stress this enough, the X-men were complete novices and had not gone to a real fight yet. So they were totally disorganized.

Forced to? He threw the first punch and Wolvie kicked the bejesus outta him for it. Remember, U.U. Cyclops is not as mature as the 616 Cyclops.

first, adamantium needs pressure put behind it to cut steel... pressure logan cannot come up with by himself...

they had fought before, and while logan is older, he was still outnumbered...

logan baited him, cyclops lashed out... everybody with a mouth like logans needs a slap now and then... cyclops gave it to him...

i never said he was...

x-men: liberators #2. pages 1 and 2, panels 6 and 2, respectively.

"just checkin' out the new equipment. you know, kickin' the tires a bit. takin' him for a test drive."

"grade "A" adamantium, bub. i could cut through you like butter."

presumably that's a recap of what happened in giant size x-men #1, but i wouldn't know. that's too expensive for me to have read. either way, logan crawls up onto colossus (in his armor form) and checks him out rather well. i don't think he would've made a boast like that if he wasn't sure. and, as you pointed out in another thread, not all physics apply. logan hardly ever needs to apply the appropriate pressure for his claws to cut through anything. he'd tear colossus to bits. EITHER colossus.

Originally posted by Disappear
x-men: liberators #2. pages 1 and 2, panels 6 and 2, respectively.

"just checkin' out the new equipment. you know, kickin' the tires a bit. takin' him for a test drive."

"grade "A" adamantium, bub. i could cut through you like butter."

presumably that's a recap of what happened in giant size x-men #1, but i wouldn't know. that's too expensive for me to have read. either way, logan crawls up onto colossus (in his armor form) and checks him out rather well. i don't think he would've made a boast like that if he wasn't sure. and, as you pointed out in another thread, not all physics apply. logan hardly ever needs to apply the appropriate pressure for his claws to cut through anything. he'd tear colossus to bits. EITHER colossus.

Wolverine says lots of things...

and besides, there was that issue where logan tried to cut him and all he got was sparks...

im talking about logic, not physics...

i think colossus' alloy is just too thick for logan...

and if you think im alone, check out the vs forum...

i dont think you're alone at all. i think it's an ongoing debate that's never really been settled. all i'm saying is that omnium steel (most similar to piotr's organic steel) is weaker than adamantium, and if wolvie really wanted to (and a writer wanted him to, too) he could tear colossus apart. a lot of times logic doesnt apply in the comicsverse, either. it comes down to opinion and what you can say you can prove.

Originally posted by Disappear
x-men: liberators #2. pages 1 and 2, panels 6 and 2, respectively.

"just checkin' out the new equipment. you know, kickin' the tires a bit. takin' him for a test drive."

"grade "A" adamantium, bub. i could cut through you like butter."

presumably that's a recap of what happened in giant size x-men #1, but i wouldn't know. that's too expensive for me to have read. either way, logan crawls up onto colossus (in his armor form) and checks him out rather well. i don't think he would've made a boast like that if he wasn't sure. and, as you pointed out in another thread, not all physics apply. logan hardly ever needs to apply the appropriate pressure for his claws to cut through anything. he'd tear colossus to bits. EITHER colossus.

I Ultimate X-men they fought, Logan was unable to cut colossus and all he did was send some sparks along colossus chest..........

meh, i don't follow UX very closely. there's still always the possibility, though. and there's the fallback theory that Ultimate Wolverine's adamantium bonding process was inferior to 616's, as partially shown when Wolvie fought Deathstrike, so who knows. it's never a definite either way, i'd say. there'll be those who want to keep adamantium as the uncontested strongest metal out there, and there'll be those who don't care to stress that.

Originally posted by Disappear
i dont think you're alone at all. i think it's an ongoing debate that's never really been settled. all i'm saying is that omnium steel (most similar to piotr's organic steel) is weaker than adamantium, and if wolvie really wanted to (and a writer wanted him to, too) he could tear colossus apart. a lot of times logic doesnt apply in the comicsverse, either. it comes down to opinion and what you can say you can prove.

there was a great example a whle back...

give a baby a saw and a block of wood... the baby cant cut through, because he doesnt have the strength, even though sharp metal can cut through wood... but a fully grown man...

colossus is about class 100... thats 100 tons of strength... his durabilty comparable... logan is class what, 1? If he was launched out of a cannon, then sure he could cut him, but i dont believe he has the strength normally to do it...

i dont dispute adamantiums status, just the man its attached to...

understandable. but the fact is that, historically, various writers have either accepted or ignored the fact that logan shouldn't be able to cut through certain things. hacking through sentinels and danger room bots and metal doors and walls and whatnot. writers will write, and artists will draw, what they find to be dynamic scenes, regardless of whether it matches real world physics. that's the only angle that keeps this argument open.

Originally posted by Disappear
writers will write, and artists will draw, what they find to be dynamic scenes, regardless of whether it matches real world physics. that's the only angle that keeps this argument open.


Don't get me wrong ,im not accusing you of being one in fact this statement is in agreement with you, but thats the arguments a lot of wolverine..fanbo...supporters use.

They say wolverine can trade blows with the Hulk because the have seen a story where he is punched by hulk and gets straight back up, what they neglect to mention is that there are stories where Logan has been punched by someone of a lot lower strength and instantly knocked unconscious..............

trust me, i'm nothing of a wolverine fanboy. he's been a very dis-interesting character for me for quite a while, and i only really began following his series near the end of the 'enemy of the state' arc. but i agree completely with you, it does sound like something a fanboy would use to justify their perception of logan's strength. the sad truth is, though, that most of these arguments are much more applicable revolving around wolverine than around, say, nightcrawler. wolverine is marvel's cash cow, and if him doing something dramatic like skewering piotr will make them money, they'll do it. and they'll justify it as above.

it does get annoying when marvel makes rules for their characters, such as strength levels and durability and whatnot, but they don't apply them to their favorites...

Originally posted by Disappear
understandable. but the fact is that, historically, various writers have either accepted or ignored the fact that logan shouldn't be able to cut through certain things. hacking through sentinels and danger room bots and metal doors and walls and whatnot. writers will write, and artists will draw, what they find to be dynamic scenes, regardless of whether it matches real world physics. that's the only angle that keeps this argument open.

colossus is a hell of alot more durable than a sentinels armour... his skin can take alot of punishment...

i still believe logan just isnt strong enough to apply the force...

physically, there's no way he is. i agree on that. using comic logic, though, it's still up in the air. if someone comes along and says he can, he likely will. i don't agree with it, i'm just saying it's completely possible until it's truly "established" otherwise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/kazumaix/vgcatsx.jpg

See the top panel. Thats a perfect example of Cyckes

that is funny, but not true...