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I keep reading in the news about censorship - movies, tv, radio, etc. Even just today I read something about the Howard Stern thing. I'm just curious what you guys think about it. Personally I am all for free speech and think these parent groups should just take responsibility for their own kids. I don't want them to change shows like Law and Order to accomodate some people. What do you think about the subject?

I don't Know, What Do you think?

I think its ridiculous. If the parents dont like it just dont hear it, watch it, read it etc. some people just need to get life's

I think Censorship is just plan retarted And i agree with you that partents should just take responsibility for their kids. Cuz if a song comes out and half the song is "Bleeped" out whats worth it?? And as far as tv... come on parents should just look out for what their kids are watching if they are SO worried

Parents can't be around their kids 24/7 to regulate what they're exposed to. Suggesting such is what is ridiculous. Besides, society in general has become so desensitized and jaded that they let way too much stuff into the mainstream as it is.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Parents can't be around their kids 24/7 to regulate what they're exposed to. Suggesting such is what is ridiculous. Besides, society in general has become so desensitized and jaded that they let way too much stuff into the mainstream as it is.
But come on.. If parents are smart enought they could explain to their kids whats going on.. on tell them its bad to cus im not saying that the parents have to be there "247" but if the are good parents they should be able to trust their kids and know them well enough to allow certin things.

I think it's a fair point that Cinemaddiction is making, however with proper regulation it should be circumvented by the watershed- at least in TV.

At least then the parents know when they need to be vigilant- if they can't, what can you do? You can't really impinge upon other people's lives because of that.

Exactly.

The most famous case of ignorance in regulating such material is the lawsuit a mother tried to file against World Wrestling Entertainment some years back, due to her son nearly breaking a young girl's neck by giving her a neckbreaker in the schoolyard.

WWE specifically put warnings before their programmes as do many other post-watershed shows I believe. She obviously took the stupid stance of "It's wrestling, how bad can it be?" and then wanted to sue for it. As Victor just said, if that happens you can't do much. Just have the deniability that you had any responsibility, thanks to fair warning.

-AC

Originally posted by Bun Bun
I think Censorship is just plan retarted

That's just precious.


As for censorship, sometimes I believe it isn't all together a bad thing. What I find odd is what is (or is not) censored. I find it perplexing that I can watch a character on T.V. get his guts blown across the screen with a high powered rifle, but that other people deem viewing a woman's bare breasts as offensive.

This is what I have to say about censorship:


Well, **** ** ******* *** ****** ** ** * ***** **** ****** **** ***** ********* ** ***** ****. *** **** ****** ******* ** ***** ***** **. ****** ** ** ***** *********** ******* *** ** *.

So there we are.

Originally posted by Bun Bun
I think Censorship is just plan retarted And i agree with you that partents should just take responsibility for their kids. Cuz if a song comes out and half the song is "Bleeped" out whats worth it?? And as far as tv... come on parents should just look out for what their kids are watching if they are SO worried let's assume you're a parent
and your little kid is watching Tv as it gets. everything.
wouldn't you be a bit more contendent if there was no possibility of them watching something totally inappropiate?





as for me, every TV show here is ranked with green, yellow or red sign showing who can watch it. and they're not even showing beer adverts during the day.

The most extreme case of censorship I've seen is the word 'panties' being cut out.

-AC

Originally posted by Clovie
let's assume you're a parent
and your little kid is watching Tv as it gets. everything.
wouldn't you be a bit more contendent if there was no possibility of them watching something totally inappropiate?



Of course you would prefer that, but it's not viable. The idea that everyone else is going to watch only heavily censored material so that some parents can let the TV bring up their kids is nutty.

Censorship is an awful, very un-American thing to ever consider. It hinders our most prized ammendmant of free-speech. What someone says or writes is alot differant from what it does. If SpellJammer can't put up with all the liberal bullshit, then those same pinkos can put up with a little violance and vulgarity..

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The most extreme case of censorship I've seen is the word 'panties' being cut out.

-AC for me it is how they're translating american movies
all 'fu.ck's are getting changed into something like 'damn'



Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Of course you would prefer that, but it's not viable. The idea that everyone else is going to watch only heavily censored material so that some parents can let the TV bring up their kids is nutty. it is not what I mean..
I thought rather about showing some obsene adverts in the middle of shows for kids.

It's funny how the premise of freedom of speech has been distorted to "I should be allowed to say whatever the f*ck I want no matter who it offends because it's my f*cking right!"

Oh how the founding fathers must be proud.

Originally posted by Clovie
for me it is how they're translating american movies
all 'fu.ck's are getting changed into something like 'damn'



it is not what I mean..
I thought rather about showing some obsene adverts in the middle of shows for kids.

Obviously that isn't on.

I remember seeing a censored film, I can't remember the replacement terms but they were quite funny.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Oh how the founding fathers must be proud.
Damn straight, you do realise all of our founding fathers would vote Republican or atleast be centre-conservative right? You and this whole "neo-liberal" movement think more like the Brits we fought to establish a free country!

And look at that, it only took like five of us to kick your entire army's ass.. Hmm.. gee, SpellJammer wonders why.. maybe it's cause we thought for ourselves instead of being told what to do by the goverment. God gave you a brain, use it.. The goverment is not your parent, if your parents failed raising you right then you have a responsibility to yourself to fix the kinks they left behind, not the goverment.

You practice magic, I remember you saying.

You don't by any chance specialise in the art of spirit-draining do you? Bridgal stress?

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Obviously that isn't on.

I remember seeing a censored film, I can't remember the replacement terms but they were quite funny. what isn't on?

and it is not that movies are being censored. they're just getting translated like that

If everyone could stop swallowing the literal pills and actually increase their attention spans to more than that of a goldfish, would be appreciated.

-AC

Originally posted by Clovie
what isn't on?

Obscene adverts during kids shows...

Originally posted by Clovie

and it is not that movies are being censored. they're just getting translated like that

Translated from English to English? The movie I saw was censored.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If everyone could stop swallowing the literal pills and actually increase their attention spans to more than that of a goldfish, would be appreciated.

-AC what do you mean?



Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Obscene adverts during kids shows... but it has happened

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Translated from English to English? The movie I saw was censored. how much into yourself you are?
Do you know that there are actually SOME not english speaking countries on the Earth?

I mean, you should stop being so literal and try to keep up and pay attention with your own debates. Because you don't appear to be getting what he said. I've read the interaction between you both and you've lost yourself somehow, I don't know how.

No offence meant.

-AC

Originally posted by Clovie
what do you mean?




how much into yourself you are?
Do you know that there are actually SOME not english speaking countries on the Earth?

Firstly, what are you talking about?

Secondly...see firstly.

Yes, I do know that there are non English-speaking countries.

You might recall me saying I saw a censored movie. It was in English, but censored.

Not quite sure why you made that leap of logic, but you fell down the gap.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I mean, you should stop being so literal and try to keep up and pay attention with your own debates. Because you don't appear to be getting what he said. I've read the interaction between you both and you've lost yourself somehow, I don't know how.

No offence meant.

-AC I've said they're changing words during translation
he said he've seen he saw a censored movie
i said that what we get here is not a censorship but translation.


Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Firstly, what are you talking about?

Secondly...see firstly.

Yes, I do know that there are non English-speaking countries.

You might recall me saying I saw a censored movie. It was in English, but censored.

Not quite sure why you made that leap of logic, but you fell down the gap. ^ the same goes for you.




and yes. i understand. you're all too intelligent and so on for me.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Damn straight, you do realise all of our founding fathers would vote Republican or atleast be centre-conservative right? You and this whole "neo-liberal" movement think more like the Brits we fought to establish a free country!

You are dillusional.


Originally posted by Spelljammer
And look at that, it only took like five of us to kick your entire army's ass.. Hmm.. gee, SpellJammer wonders why.. maybe it's cause we thought for ourselves instead of being told what to do by the goverment.

You do realise that the british army (pre-canada days) marched south of the border, burned down the whitehouse, got bored, got drunk and went home right? You see this point (which is actually true) is just as pointless as the one above.

Please stop the rambling and shock us all by saying something intelligent.

Well I personally don't think that censorship should be a comm0on practice....of course the Channels shouldn't show Hardcore porn at 3pm but censoring words or cut maybe offensive parts out of a Show shouldn't be allowed. Oh and like beepin g out ****....whatever did that help? Let me show you **** ....can you guess what I said?

Originally posted by Clovie
I've said they're changing words during translation
he said he've seen he saw a censored movie
i said that what we get here is not a censorship but translation.


^ the same goes for you.


I thank you for the arrow, because I was thinking 'is it left? Right? What goes for me?!'

Originally posted by Clovie
I've said they're changing words during translation
he said he've seen he saw a censored movie
i said that what we get here is not a censorship but translation.

You never said here, you said "and it is not that movies are being censored. they're just getting translated like that". Obviously his case isn't applicable is it? Not sure how you're managing to not get such simple concepts.

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I thank you for the arrow, because I was thinking 'is it left? Right? What goes for me?!' you're very welcome.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You never said here, you said "and it is not that movies are being censored. they're just getting translated like that". Obviously his case isn't applicable is it? Not sure how you're managing to not get such simple concepts.

-AC odpieprz się I'm just so stupid, you forgot?

For parents who don't want their kids to see/hear certain stuff.. they have those new rating for TV shows and those "chips" that allow parents to block all shows with a certain rating.. they can use that. I don't think television should be as censored as it is. It's not impossible to keep your kids away from those shows.

Clovie, I'm not calling you anything, am I? No.

It just astounds me that you are continually being so overly literal that people interacting with you have to rehash the same point five times. I mean no offence, it's just true.

-AC

Thanks, now I understand why most of the people is avoiding me.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
For parents who don't want their kids to see/hear certain stuff.. they have those new rating for TV shows and those "chips" that allow parents to block all shows with a certain rating.. they can use that. I don't think television should be as censored as it is. It's not impossible to keep your kids away from those shows.

my thoughts exactly... i think parents need to take more responsibility if they care what their kids watch. there are all these parental groups out there trying to keep stuff off tv, why not just use chips or censorship in your own house, instead of on a national basis. i heard about a group called tv watch that tries to prevent censorship... anyone else heard of it?

Originally posted by Bun Bun
But come on.. If parents are smart enought they could explain to their kids whats going on.. on tell them its bad to cus im not saying that the parents have to be there "247" but if the are good parents they should be able to trust their kids and know them well enough to allow certin things. Can't explain everything to children, they can hear it all day, but it wont register until a certain point.

Originally posted by Sir Nauj
I think its ridiculous. If the parents dont like it just dont hear it, watch it, read it etc. some people just need to get life's damn straight!

there does need to be attention paid to the content of afternoon tv shows that mainly smaller children watch, but i think censoring things like the word "panties" (in Alphas casE) is a bit much. like parents are going to stop the word panties from being said around their kids, if they go to school, there'll be a kid who saw it and who'll talk about it with anyone who wants to listen. there is only so far you can go before it becomes irrelevant as to how much you censor

these parents are cowards who dont want to explain things like these to their kids.

Originally posted by Clovie
Thanks, now I understand why most of the people is avoiding me.

Stop that!!!!


You are nothing but the best of what there is....you silly Tavern girl.

I'm not really too fussed about censorship... but what I HATE is the ratings on audio CDs. Like "Moderate impact of coarse language/themes," which was stuck on the cover of Audioslave's first album. Then there's 'Strong' and 'Extreme.' You have to be a certain age to buy those CDs in a store. Movies I can understand, yeah, but CDs is pushing it. Especially since rap music seems to be having a lot of influence on kids these days, those CDs don't have ratings at all.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense... I'm tired

i know what you mean, i was cd shopping the other day and there was a cd (i dont remember what band, but the cds not gonna start waves of killings across the land if you know what i mean) and it had a lable stating that the album had "Stong To Extreme Impact Themes" on it. frankly, if your dumb enough to read into a song and kill people because of it, i think you needed help long before you walked into HMV

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
For parents who don't want their kids to see/hear certain stuff.. they have those new rating for TV shows and those "chips" that allow parents to block all shows with a certain rating.. they can use that. I don't think television should be as censored as it is. It's not impossible to keep your kids away from those shows.

Yup, thats what it all comes down to. The ****ing parents. You don't know how many times i've seen kids playing GTA right in ****ing front of the ****ing living room while their parents are in the kitchen or something. They should start mandating first time parents to take classes or something...idunno, but all i know is that there are lot of soft parenting going on.

Censorship is just a way to shelter our poor innocent youths from this horrible thing called 'real life'.

/\Read with sarcasm.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Stop that!!!!


You are nothing but the best of what there is....you silly Tavern girl. but he was right....



Originally posted by Imaginary
I'm not really too fussed about censorship... but what I HATE is the ratings on audio CDs. Like "Moderate impact of coarse language/themes," which was stuck on the cover of Audioslave's first album. Then there's 'Strong' and 'Extreme.' You have to be a certain age to buy those CDs in a store. Movies I can understand, yeah, but CDs is pushing it. Especially since rap music seems to be having a lot of influence on kids these days, those CDs don't have ratings at all.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense... I'm tired I think I saw that CD rating thing once. but I didn't noticed anyone caring the least about it.



--

and btw when there is a reality show, they're 'beeping' polish swearwords (not all, the worst ones) but they're leaving there all the 'fu.cks' and 'arseholes' if someone says them in english...or any other language.

Originally posted by Clovie

and btw when there is a reality show, they're 'beeping' polish swearwords (not all, the worst ones) but they're leaving there all the 'fu.cks' and 'arseholes' if someone says them in english...or any other language.

Swearing in other languages is never as offensive though.

You should get aqauinted with the Spanish language. Most of our swear words involve your mother..

Censorship has it's place.

In moderation, it's helpful to a great deal of people.

I believe censorship is important for children - much less important for adults.
The old argument a film made someone do something etc., is one we could argue forever - truth is films, music, comics etc. severely affect very few, albeit when they do it can be truly terrible. On the other hand has a lack of censorship and the proliferation of a skewed reality caused by the media corrupted society as a whole? This is a more interesting question

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Swearing in other languages is never as offensive though. because you don't understand it?

Originally posted by Clovie
because you don't understand it?

Kind of, but even when someone tells you what it means, it doesn't have the same power due to various other factors.

Censorship is a tool of the devil. Especially when it's used to censor artistic creations (film, music, TV, video games, ect). More often then not, censorship is downright ridiculous - I.E. The morons who made a huge deal about the hot coffee mod on GTA, like seeing a poorly animated girl bobbing her head is somehow so much worse then the act of killing police officers and beating hookers to death with a baseball bat and stealing their money.

Just a backwards ass society we live in.

crazy isn't it

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Kind of, but even when someone tells you what it means, it doesn't have the same power due to various other factors. that's a good point.

for example polish equivalent of word 'whore' is very much worse than equivalent of the word 'fu.ck'

Originally posted by Clovie
that's a good point.

for example polish equivalent of word 'whore' is very much worse than equivalent of the word 'fu.ck'
Yeah, but even then it doesn't have that much meaning in your language. Like although I might know some Russian and some Icelandic Swearwords they don't have the same meaning to me...as if someone from that country hears them....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but even then it doesn't have that much meaning in your language. Like although I might know some Russian and some Icelandic Swearwords they don't have the same meaning to me...as if someone from that country hears them.... how it doesn't have a meaning? you mean translations or english words?
I know some finnish swearwords

Originally posted by Clovie
how it doesn't have a meaning? you mean translations or english words?
I know some finnish swearwords

And if you hear them do you have the same feelings as if you heard the same word in polish?

Originally posted by Bardock42
And if you hear them do you have the same feelings as if you heard the same word in polish? not really. they sounds nice.

Originally posted by Clovie
not really. they sounds nice.

Not only that...but you ar enot connected with it...you weren't brought upo with the notion it's a bad word...it'S qa whole different deal that way....I mean I guess you can get accustomed to that way of thinking but hearing it for the first time won't make you feel bad or anything...

hmm...that makes sense.

Originally posted by Clovie
hmm...that makes sense.

Thankizzle.....

nicht zu danken

Originally posted by Clovie
nicht zu danken

then I won't.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not only that...but you ar enot connected with it...you weren't brought upo with the notion it's a bad word...it'S qa whole different deal that way....I mean I guess you can get accustomed to that way of thinking but hearing it for the first time won't make you feel bad or anything...

Thanks for continuing my point.

You can be my official point continuer.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Thanks for continuing my point.

You can be my official point continuer.

I will think aboot it for a week and then refuse, ok?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I will think aboot it for a week and then refuse, ok?

Refuse? You are refuse.

It also means rubbish. Now how do you feel? A?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Refuse? You are refuse.

It also means rubbish. Now how do you feel? A?

I feel like your language is refuse

Originally posted by Bardock42
I feel like your language is refuse

Refuze.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Refuze.
Yes yes...I will jsut not talk to you aboot that anyore...look there is a blue flower...what might that be.....

Originally posted by BackFire
Censorship is a tool of the devil. Especially when it's used to censor artistic creations (film, music, TV, video games, ect). More often then not, censorship is downright ridiculous - I.E. The morons who made a huge deal about the hot coffee mod on GTA, like seeing a poorly animated girl bobbing her head is somehow so much worse then the act of killing police officers and beating hookers to death with a baseball bat and stealing their money.

Just a backwards ass society we live in.

yeah, censorship always confuses me... i mean they censor a show like law and order or some music but the 6 oclock news shows way worse stuff imo.

Because society is under the impression fictional blood and gore is somehow worse then real blood and gore. That the fictional promotes impressionable children to go out and do it.

For one, they underestimate children's intelligence. Children aren't dumb enough to go out and do what they do on Grand Theft Auto, they know they'll be consequinces, harsh consquinces for those actions.

Secondly, if a parent can't raise thier kid right, or won't acknowledge they are a lunatic, then it's not the fault of the producers if that child go's beserk. They can't be heald accountible for some dipshit.

Instead of worrying so much about what children see, they should worry about what children do. It's disgusting to know there are 13 year old girls getting abortions because they are sexualy active, maybe it's time parents started implementing the violance they so religously try to shut their children's eyes and ears from.. There's no excuse for the debautchery in today's youth, and mindless video games and rap music are sure as hell not to blame.

Censorship can be good its all situational.

Wait my last sentance is fairly redundant to what everyone else is saying! So go Censorship

Well really showing porn and adult movies in the morning is not good for children and heck even i would get annoyed by it. I sort of find Mornings a spiritual time. No music, no movies, really peace and quite, just some breakfast and the morning news.

here's an interesting article i just read in the ny times. It talks about the whole issue and groups like the PTC and TV Watch that are battling...

I think ******' censorship is ******' great! Now go **** yourself!

LOL the people in general have these opinions about "filth" however I find humor in it Anyone against Family Guy is a communist! LOL Come on American Dad is all about conservative family's!

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL the people in general have these opinions about "filth" however I find humor in it Anyone against Family Guy is a communist! LOL Come on American Dad is all about conservative family's!

It's more aboot Conservative Dads......and the crazyness if you take it to far......

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's more aboot Conservative Dads......and the crazyness if you take it to far......


Yes its a parody and thats where the humor lies in it LOL I said where the humor lies.......oh where will it end

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL the people in general have these opinions about "filth" however I find humor in it Anyone against Family Guy is a communist! LOL Come on American Dad is all about conservative family's!

I'm against Family Dad because it comes on the same time as Sunday Night Football.

Originally posted by botankus
I'm against Family Dad because it comes on the same time as Sunday Night Football.

And Family Dad is against you....as well as American Guy and Futurepark

Southrama likes you though....

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL the people in general have these opinions about "filth" however I find humor in it Anyone against Family Guy is a communist! LOL Come on American Dad is all about conservative family's!

LOL, seriously... if parents don't want their kids watching this stuff, here's a unique idea - turn it off. don't keep the rest of us from enjpying our fave shows. I agree with the tv watch woman, parents groups shouldn't prevent the rest of us from enjoying our fave shows. their ratings should be enough to prove that a lot of us feel this way...

Originally posted by KharmaDog
That's just precious.


As for censorship, sometimes I believe it isn't all together a bad thing. What I find odd is what is (or is not) censored. I find it perplexing that I can watch a character on T.V. get his guts blown across the screen with a high powered rifle, but that other people deem viewing a woman's bare breasts as offensive.


I agree. Why is violence OK, but not a woman's body ?

Is it true that in Canada, women can show their breasts on TV ?

No they can walk around on the street if they wanted to but i have yet to see that. Also that applies to the province of Ontario (where Toronto and Ottawa are). i am not sure about the others.

Also yes you can see womna breasts on some channels like after 10-11 pm.

Originally posted by crickey77
I keep reading in the news about censorship - movies, tv, radio, etc. Even just today I read something about the Howard Stern thing. I'm just curious what you guys think about it. Personally I am all for free speech and think these parent groups should just take responsibility for their own kids. I don't want them to change shows like Law and Order to accomodate some people. What do you think about the subject?

Agree

When I was in Japan, I saw pictures of animated women who were topless in stores I've seen kids in.

I heard that nudity isn't a huge deal in France either.
I really don't know about Britain !

Lot's of things are a big deal here.

I remember during the Iraq "war" that a particular newspaper had some drunk celeb on the front page. People dying in an unjust invasion and their top priority is some idiot's life.

-AC

Well, the thing I've never understood about censorship, is that it serves as a cop-out for parenting. Logically, perhaps not the most socially-beneficial aspect of allowing kids to see things they don't know about or "shouldn't" know about, is that it gives the parents the chance to explain the situation to the children from their perspective. They are given the chance to instill their hateful rhetoric into the child, so that the kid can cringe in disgust when two men kiss...just like their daddy.

As far as language, I seriously doubt that bleeping out a "bad word" is going to prevent the kid from learning it. I didn't learn bad words from watching TV. I learned it from my parents and other kids.

Here's an example.

When I was about five years old, my family was in the car driving around my home town. We passed a billboard that hada picture of a local black new anchor. I said "Oh, look at that Nigg**!" My parents FREAKED! When they asked me where I had heard that word, I answered honestly. I heard it from friends at school. We had, maybe, two black kids in my entire school. (A private school in a deep southern town...what can you expect?) It's the same as sex. Why do we know more about sex at a younger age, than did our parents? Friends. School. And I went to a private, Catholic school...good job Jesus! I knew what a blowjob was when I was in the fourth grade.

I've always found it slightly amusing that when somebody says "goddamn," they bleep "god" but not "damn".

Anyways, I'm opposed to any kind of censorship, because I believe it infringes on freedom of speech.

I haven't seen a lot of Canadian TV, but I have heard words on
this show called North of 60 that I probably would not hear on
American TV like s**t. I'm not sure if topless women were ever shown.

hey we were givin the right to cuse so we should be able to cuse......he called me the "B" word so what........what can a word do to u......if ur that imature that u say HE CALLED ME THE "B" WORD then u should just die......its just a ****in word

Its all after 9-10pm. After 9 pm all hell breaks loose on TV up here. However i remember hearing strong swearing on tv before that.

What doo you expect.... I mean does anyone rememeber the "travesty" with Janet Jackson that shocked everyone to death? It wasn't a big deal in any way, shape, or form!

Well you can watch the daily show re-run at 4pm and there is B&%* and many other swear words. Sometimes you can hear some strong swear words on the local news.

Originally posted by justdecent
What doo you expect.... I mean does anyone rememeber the "travesty" with Janet Jackson that shocked everyone to death? It wasn't a big deal in any way, shape, or form!


I agree. It was just her nipple !
I see a lot more offensive stuff on the news like all the violence.
Nobody is offended much by the violence yet see a woman's nipple
and suddenly it's a huge deal !

Other countries are probably used to seeing female breasts, but
America apparently isn't.

I know Former Prime Minister Jean Chreatin swears live on TV and there is no uproar. Imagine if BIll Clinton said shit, B(*(* or F&(*.

anyone catch sunday night's family guy? i just watched it on tivo. they totally ripped apart the fcc...

here are some interesting comments:
http://blog01.kintera.com/TVWatch/

http://blog01.kintera.com/TVWatch/archives/Family%20Guy%20FCC%20pic%203.jpg

Originally posted by crickey77
anyone catch sunday night's family guy? i just watched it on tivo. they totally ripped apart the fcc...

here are some interesting comments:
http://blog01.kintera.com/TVWatch/

http://blog01.kintera.com/TVWatch/archives/Family%20Guy%20FCC%20pic%203.jpg


I saw that episode and really liked it.

here is a clip of the FCC song i read online: http://www.devilducky.com/media/37922/

spiral, did you read any of that stuff on the site i posted?

I think that censorship is definitely weakening in the movie industry.

For example while watching the previews before seeing Saw II last night, which was a mistake to say the least, this preview came on for a new movie to be released I don't remember when, about this house or place where you can torture, punish, and kill people in any way, shape or form, living out your sickest fantasies. And it made me wonder why the hell something like that would be released?
I can't for the life of me remember the name of it

And I think that no, a movie can not inspire a perfectly sane normal individual to go out and kill,but movies like this I think glorify the horrificness of death and violence. If a disturbed person was to see it for example, I believe that something like that could work on their mind and might push them towards doing something horrific.

So my question is, why are things like this being released now, and what exactly is their point?

I don't know....there are so many sick things out there....the "sad" thing is that the standards are dropping lower and lower every year in the name of free expression....

I agree completely, sooner or later, those guys who tortured, killed, and skinned a cat on video, will be celebrated for their artistic genius, instead of being arrested for their depravity.

Well, at least two of us think so:-) There's enough torture, murder, mayhem etc in the world for real without making "realistic representations" as an art form. The problem comes in when we see too much of it we become numb to it....and it ceases to bring up feelings of disgust.

ST, you're more or less talking about the type of movies I live for, so I will try to answer your question.

The point of these movies are often about humanity and our own sick desires to see these things. They offer us something unique, often disturbing and grotesque, and humans by nature have the desire to witness the terrible.

Take the film, Salo, for example. Hailed as the most disgusting and disturbing film of all time by many people. It has some truley dispicable scenes that I can see making a good number of people nausious, but it makes a very poigniant and intriguing point about humanity (fascism in specific) and has a large amount of artistic merrit. Most movies of this nature do have artistic merrit, and I generally applaud the film makers for being brave enough to release a film that isn't sugar coated or watered down and doesn't hold back when showing the horrors and depravity of our society where acts far worse then anything shown in a film do take place. It's the artists way of saying "don't look away, these things happen, and YOU, the general public, need to recognize and realize it."

Also, I can't help but disagree about the people who tortured cats. Their is no artistic value or merrit in doing such an act and I think, while a few idiots may see their act as beautiful or artistic or whatever, the general public will reject such thinking because of the extreme case of actual cruelty that has nothing to do with art of any form.

Yeap, kind of like the Rodney King trial and how the lawyer played the tape 30 or so times, and by the end the jury no longer felt stirrings of disgust and the officers were aquitted I believe


Same with sex really too, not just violence and such. Although I think looser censorship of violence is more harmful than looser censorship of sex

Originally posted by BackFire
ST, you're more or less talking about the type of movies I live for, so I will try to answer your question.

The point of these movies are often about humanity and our own sick desires to see these things. They offer us something unique, often disturbing and grotesque, and humans by nature have the desire to witness the terrible.

Take the film, Salo, for example. Hailed as the most disgusting and disturbing film of all time by many people. It has some truley dispicable scenes that I can see making a good number of people nausious, but it makes a very poigniant and intriguing point about humanity (fascism in specific) and has a large amount of artistic merrit. Most movies of this nature do have artistic merrit, and I generally applaud the film makers for being brave enough to release a film that isn't sugar coated or watered down and doesn't hold back when showing the horrors and depravity of our society where acts far worse then anything shown in a film do take place. It's the artists way of saying "don't look away, these things happen, and YOU, the general public, need to recognize and realize it."



Understood, but when is it going too far?
Like why do we think that for example depicting rape or incest or child pornography for example is wrong, but someone being mutilated slowly on camera okay?

And in no way is this just a question put forth to you BF, because that was a great explanation and I'm not attacking your views, anyone can feel free to answer

Well, there are plenty of movies depicting rape, incest and child pornography that are very very good. Again, Salo included rape scenes, humiliation, pedophilia and other unnamable acts, but it has artistic merrit and all of the things shows are done for a reason - They help make the point of the movie more credible and intriguing. Of course, all of the scenes are fake, there's no REAL rape or pedophilia, it's all acted. That's important to remember.

I honestly think, when it comes to film, and art in general, nothing is taboo. I love films that break the rules and go out of their way to be as shocking and honest as possible in showing the cruelty of the world around us. Breaking taboo's is the only way for art to continue to progress and cover new ground.

The only way a film can go to far, IMO is when it's the REAL act caught on tape (such as a snuff film or what have you). Then this has no plausable artistic merrit and is pure exploitation. Plus it's simply against the law.

Don't you think those movies have any type of influence on people who see them though?
Even small scaled to start, but repetitive exposure does numb the sensitivity to such a subject I think.

Now that kind of censorship i don't understand at all. I think everyone has the right to show in their movies what they want to. You really don't need to wathc them.

In my experience, it doesn't.

I've seen countless violent, and disgusting films. I've seen pretty much all of the film that are considered to be the worst of the worst, that have a good number of violence, rape humiliation, etc. And yet, when I see or hear about real violence, I am still horrified or saddened by it. Perhaps I'm desensitized to cinematic horrors, but to real life horrors I'm still very much sensitive.

I don't think films have much an impact on your response to real life violence.

But can you completely avoid them even when previewed on tv during the day when kids are watching?

Not to mention it's not my sanity I'm worried about when discussing and watching these films, it's people who are depraved and might get ideas by watching them, it's not me, it's the other guy ermm

But seriously, I do think that these films can influence peoples' actions.

Originally posted by BackFire
In my experience, it doesn't.

I've seen countless violent, and disgusting films. I've seen pretty much all of the film that are considered to be the worst of the worst, that have a good number of violence, rape humiliation, etc. And yet, when I see or hear about real violence, I am still horrified or saddened by it. Perhaps I'm desensitized to cinematic horrors, but to real life horrors I'm still very much sensitive.

I don't think films have much an impact on your response to real life violence.

How good is the quality of Salo, can you tell it's a cinematic representation or does it look real life?
Like for example if you were to see all that shot in what looks like home video style, would you still like it as much if there's a possibility it actually happened?

Well, in the case you're suggesting then these people are already mentally unstable and it would be unfair to try and blame a film for a mentally unstable person getting ideas from them. A person like that would get ideas from anything, a violent horror book, violent music, or perhaps even his own visions. It's the fault of society for not recognizing the danger that this person poses and putting him in the proper treatment center.

But no sane person would be pushed to violence by a film.

They can influence you if you're an idiot and/or mentally unstable. In both cases nobody can really do anything anyway, nor is it our place to.

If you actually go to watch a movie and start thinking that it is ok to go do that, then it's not so much the movie influence, it's the person being irresponsible.

If you watch The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and go kill many students with a chainsaw, the movie didn't influence you to do that because it's not sending out a message of "Go kill." It's you deciding that it would be cool to do that. In which case your existance isn't necessary.

-AC

Originally posted by silver_tears
How good is the quality of Salo, can you tell it's a cinematic representation or does it look real life?
Like for example if you were to see all that shot in what looks like home video style, would you still like it as much if there's a possibility it actually happened?

It's a fairly old film, so the quality by todays standards is pretty poor.

But it is shot in such a way that makes it eerily pluasable and had it not been for that style I don't think it's point would be quite a poigniant and successful.

Originally posted by silver_tears
But can you completely avoid them even when previewed on tv during the day when kids are watching?

Not to mention it's not my sanity I'm worried about when discussing and watching these films, it's people who are depraved and might get ideas by watching them, it's not me, it's the other guy ermm

But seriously, I do think that these films can influence peoples' actions.

Usually if someone says they got ideas from watching a film or something, chances are they already had the ideas in their head and are trying to cover their tracks.

I've said it before in the thread on media influence - there is some influence by what is seen, but it's not nearly as much as people make it out to be and is often just used as a scapegoat.

But if there wasn't said music, book, or film, than couldn't it be said he wouldn't have gotten the idea to start? I mean, I'm not singling out movies in any way here, they're just the more graphic representation.
If you think of our minds as clean slates at birth, all our ideas come from somewhere no? So if there wasn't this kind of exposure in the first place, could it not be said that it wouldn't have happened?


Again, just asking questions for sake of hearing other opinions contrary to my own, anyone can feel free to answer

Originally posted by silver_tears
But if there wasn't said music, book, or film, than couldn't it be said he wouldn't have gotten the idea to start? I mean, I'm not singling out movies in any way here, they're just the more graphic representation.
If you think of our minds as clean slates at birth, all our ideas come from somewhere no? So if there wasn't this kind of exposure in the first place, could it not be said that it wouldn't have happened?


Again, just asking questions for sake of hearing other opinions contrary to my own, anyone can feel free to answer

No, I don't think that's accurate at all.

Perhaps if there was also no violence in the real world I could see this as being true. But, these mentally unstable people who supposedly get their ideas from films/books/music etc still have the news to watch, they still have real life violence to inspire them to do their deeds.

I mean, before violent film and music there were still murders, there were still violence. Violent films didn't create violence, violence created violent film.

What you said is true but then you have to make the decision.

The fact that many people can watch an idea projected in any medium and come away from it just as sane and harmless as they went in, proves that it's not the movie. If the movie influenced people so strongly, more people would do it.

It depends on your mind set anyway.

-AC

Originally posted by BackFire
No, I don't think that's accurate at all.

Perhaps if there was also no violence in the real world I could see this as being true. But, these mentally unstable people who supposedly get their ideas from films/books/music etc still have the news to watch, they still have real life violence to inspire them to do their deeds.

I mean, before violent film and music there were still murders, there were still violence. Violent films didn't create violence, violence created violent film.

What if there was harsher censorship on the news, and few people were exposed to real violence after birth? Then you think there'd be no way they could go and accept the ideas portrayed in these movies as okay?

Canada lets soft porn on TV but not Howard stern. Say some racist stuff its the end of the world up here. A major radio station in Quebec lost its license over that.

Originally posted by manny321
Canada lets soft porn on TV but not Howard stern. Say some racist stuff its the end of the world up here. A major radio station in Quebec lost its license over that.

Soft porn isn't considered a hate crime.

Originally posted by silver_tears
What if there was harsher censorship on the news, and few people were exposed to real violence after birth? Then you think there'd be no way they could go and accept the ideas portrayed in these movies as okay?

People will always find a way to act out what they want. These mediums are just excuses for the "insane" or idiotic.

It's like people who say pornography causes sex. There was sex before pornography. Like there were murders before violence on screen or literature.

There should never be censorship on the news. It's the news.

-AC

Oh no doubt about that, but it just makes you wonder where it all started, like the violence in human nature and such.

And I'm not talking biblical Cain and Abel either.

Your question answers itself.

Violence is a part of basic human nature. Always has been, always will be.

The films that deal with violence are a result of the real world violence, not the other way around.

As AC said, people will always find a reason to kill or hurt people, if you take away ALL form of violence in the media - news, movies, music, books, ect - People will still kill other people. It's unavoidable.

Originally posted by silver_tears
But can you completely avoid them even when previewed on tv during the day when kids are watching?

Not to mention it's not my sanity I'm worried about when discussing and watching these films, it's people who are depraved and might get ideas by watching them, it's not me, it's the other guy ermm

But seriously, I do think that these films can influence peoples' actions.
They probably can, but so can reading books, playing games, listen to music, talking to friends and more. And the hard thing is that we don't know what changes would influence people in what way. But generally I am for freedom and censoring whatever takes away such freedoms, and if you are worried aboot your kids seeing it on afternoon TV just don't let the watch TV (although I doubt that things that are worth censoring air in the afternoon or earlier)

Originally posted by BackFire
Your question answers itself.

Violence is a part of basic human nature. Always has been, always will be.

The films that deal with violence are a result of the real world violence, not the other way around.

As AC said, people will always find a reason to kill or hurt people, if you take away ALL form of violence in the media - news, movies, music, books, ect - People will still kill other people. It's unavoidable.

How about those who make said films?
They're not affected at all having the imagination to make this up?

Not that I've seen.

Most of the people who make these films are just normal artists trying to make a point (though be it - extreme) about something. Most are supposed to be very nice and down to earth people.

Hmmm, thanks for that input on my questions BF

Originally posted by silver_tears
How about those who make said films?
They're not affected at all having the imagination to make this up?

Clive Barker.

End of story. Anyone who knows about film knows the kind of twisted, horrific, demented things that man comes up with. He perfectly fine. If anything, getting it all out on film has kept him that way.

-AC

Anytime.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
That's just precious.


As for censorship, sometimes I believe it isn't all together a bad thing. What I find odd is what is (or is not) censored. I find it perplexing that I can watch a character on T.V. get his guts blown across the screen with a high powered rifle, but that other people deem viewing a woman's bare breasts as offensive. Or half of them for that matter...

i think censorship is a ridiculous notion. america is way to tight about it....That being said, Im a big believer in consumer choice.

personally, i dont want my hard-earned money paying a smut-peddler like Howard Stern a portion of his $100million/year contract. i think he's a despicable and insulting person who profits by offending everyone he can think of.

censorship, no. consumer choice, yes. if a company is gonna support someone like him, well, im not gonna support the company.

Originally posted by edwinian
i think censorship is a ridiculous notion. america is way to tight about it....That being said, Im a big believer in consumer choice.

personally, i dont want my hard-earned money paying a smut-peddler like Howard Stern a portion of his $100million/year contract. i think he's a despicable and insulting person who profits by offending everyone he can think of.

censorship, no. consumer choice, yes. if a company is gonna support someone like him, well, im not gonna support the company.

Why not you support media's like msnbc and fox and the destruction they show on TV is far worse then talking about boobies and such. I think we all will find that there are more people that have sex over the course of their life then that same group of people killing others....

Hmm makes you think about censorship.......death is ok .....sex is BAD

Originally posted by soleran30
Why not you support media's like msnbc and fox and the destruction they show on TV is far worse then talking about boobies and such. I think we all will find that there are more people that have sex over the course of their life then that same group of people killing others....

Hmm makes you think about censorship.......death is ok .....sex is BAD

um, i never said i do support what's on the news, or death and destruction. all i said was that im gonna choose to support who i want and make it matter the only place they can feel it: the wallet. companies i dont support aint gonna see a dime.

Originally posted by edwinian
um, i never said i do support what's on the news, or death and destruction. all i said was that im gonna choose to support who i want and make it matter the only place they can feel it: the wallet. companies i dont support aint gonna see a dime.


no no I realize that I was just trying to illustrate the fact if you pay for cable or a magazine or newspaper you could be funding that which you may not want to. Even if you don't watch TV but pay for it essentially you have supported it.....not a sermon just a thought....our media in USA is so mixed

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People will always find a way to act out what they want. These mediums are just excuses for the "insane" or idiotic.

It's like people who say pornography causes sex. There was sex before pornography. Like there were murders before violence on screen or literature.

There should never be censorship on the news. It's the news.

-AC

I understand what you mean, however, you seem to be taking it to the other extreme...

Sex may have taken place before pornography..however, images depicting adults engaging in explicit sexual/violent acts, have never been as easily accessible and as widely distributed to individuals desiring it as they have been today.

The Internet, television, video games, etc..excessively market gratuitous violence/sexual media to the public. Usually this type of media is marketed to those who are the least capable of distinguishing fantasy from reality, and are too naive/young to see the harmful repercusions of engaging in such activities.

I believe some censorship is necessary. Particularly when the action being censored infringes upon another individual's rights, and especially when those rights represent those of young children.

censorship is indeed needed, but I don't get why ppl are so uptight (almost everywhere) about porn. I don't see nothing wrong with showing it to kids of 12.

Violence I get (a little cause I was playing doom when I was 8 or 10 and I never turned out that bad)

Originally posted by whobdamandog
The Internet, television, video games, etc..excessively market gratuitous violence/sexual media to the public. Usually this type of media is marketed to those who are the least capable of distinguishing fantasy from reality, and are too naive/young to see the harmful repercusions of engaging in such activities.

I believe some censorship is necessary. Particularly when the action being censored infringes upon another individual's rights, and especially when those rights represent those of young children.

Where did you work that first part out? You can buy porn mags in a regular store here, right off the top shelf. They're made available to everyone old enough to buy. Just because someone unstable is likely to buy one, doesn't mean it's aimed at them.

The way I see it, adults are adults. They don't need people to protect them. They don't need their porn mags to be censored, what's the point in censoring porn mags or videos? If a young kid is not monitored to the point that he/she can download any kind of shit on the net, then it's not the porn's fault.

Why should a normal man be subjected to censored porn purely on the off chance that an impressionable kid might get a hold of it and act it out? The violent acts are mostly on the net anyway, so if parents aren't keeping tabs on what their younger kids are doing online then whatever they see and however it affects them, is their own fault. Not to mention that if a kid sees a man strangling a woman in some internet snuff movie and decides it's "ok", then the parents haven't done a good enough job anyway.

I don't see why I should be stopped watching things I can handle just because there are people out there too irresponsible to control those they are responsible for, or themselves.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Where did you work that first part out? You can buy porn mags in a regular store here, right off the top shelf. They're made available to everyone old enough to buy. Just because someone unstable is likely to buy one, doesn't mean it's aimed at them.

The way I see it, adults are adults. They don't need people to protect them. They don't need their porn mags to be censored, what's the point in censoring porn mags or videos? If a young kid is not monitored to the point that he/she can download any kind of shit on the net, then it's not the porn's fault.

Why should a normal man be subjected to censored porn purely on the off chance that an impressionable kid might get a hold of it and act it out? The violent acts are mostly on the net anyway, so if parents aren't keeping tabs on what their younger kids are doing online then whatever they see and however it affects them, is their own fault. Not to mention that if a kid sees a man strangling a woman in some internet snuff movie and decides it's "ok", then the parents haven't done a good enough job anyway.

I don't see why I should be stopped watching things I can handle just because there are people out there too irresponsible to control those they are responsible for, or themselves.

-AC

you just double talk yourself throughout posts......its always amusing though

A) I didn't.

B) Anyone actually want to discuss censorship as opposed to my posts?

-AC

Perhaps this might help .......stop using I in all your pieces. You do not represent everyone and you make pieces out about you not the discussion of everyone......censorship is good

This is you assuming I apply it to everyone. When I say "normal" it's always subjective unless it's something so accepted that it's considered normal. Though even then I realise it's subjective.

You always manage to suggest I'm leaving something out or contradicting myself when it's you who removes things from my post only to suggest I add it.

Censorship isn't "good" but it is necessary in some places. Those "some places" are becoming more and more frequent though.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This is you assuming I apply it to everyone. When I say "normal" it's always subjective unless it's something so accepted that it's considered normal. Though even then I realise it's subjective.

You always manage to suggest I'm leaving something out or contradicting myself when it's you who removes things from my post only to suggest I add it.

Censorship isn't "good" but it is necessary in some places. Those "some places" are becoming more and more frequent though.

-AC

Censorship is good because as Jack Nicholson said in a few good men....."you cannot handle the truth" good or bad once again subjective to this however most people don't want to hear anything different then what they want or believe. So censorship is good

And as always you always do leave something out of your posts.......the opinion that might vary from yours (bad joke I know)

Originally posted by soleran30
Censorship is good because as Jack Nicholson said in a few good men....."you cannot handle the truth" good or bad once again subjective to this however most people don't want to hear anything different then what they want or believe. So censorship is good

With all due respect, he said it to Tom Cruise. There are many things he can't handle, like a good movie role. That's also subjective. Some can, some can't. Apparantly you can't, if you believe censorship is good. To me it's not.

Originally posted by soleran30
And as always you always do leave something out of your posts.......the opinion that might vary from yours (bad joke I know)

Hahahahaha, oh yeah. I just got it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
With all due respect, he said it to Tom Cruise. There are many things he can't handle, like a good movie role. That's also subjective. Some can, some can't. Apparantly you can't, if you believe censorship is good. To me it's not.



Hahahahaha, oh yeah. I just got it.

-AC

Didn't you remind me to take it lightly (humor, sarcasm) Whenever you post , think, post, whatever its subjective cuz it came from ta dah you!

I do get alot of information about a great many things some I don't like to hear or appreciate and I assume the same with you however some things I hear I wouldn't like the public to know after watching media and how people react and these are "normal" people according to media. So censorship is good because if sensationalism unless we can take muckraking out of media......not likely so censorship is good

Yes and while you're preaching subjective belief you're acting as though censorship being good is fact.

Think about this.

-AC

Ok thought done censorship is A ok Sorry buddy but not everyone shares your view on responsibilty nor do they have your sensibilty to absorb some and ignore others. So I am once again A Ok with censorship aknowledging how people react to sensationalism and the media plays to this for money.


Oh and censorship being fact is simply subjective with what I feel is normal.

Originally posted by soleran30
Ok thought done censorship is A ok Sorry buddy but not everyone shares your view on responsibilty nor do they have your sensibilty to absorb some and ignore others. So I am once again A Ok with censorship aknowledging how people react to sensationalism and the media plays to this for money.


Oh and censorship being fact is simply subjective with what I feel is normal.

Yes, you feeling censorship is "good" is subjective. This is my point, so stop acting like it being "good" is a fact. It's not a fact as I am sure you are aware.

No need to look deeper than that, you went off on a tangent.

-AC