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so lets say that every one some how loses all their powers who would be the must powerful.
(all non mutants lose whatever armour, guns, ectera)

Well I say Batman would defintly be the best fighter. But Captian America is a pretty skilled fighter too.

Probably Wonder Woman Bats may have spent 20 some odd years training but she's spent thousands.

Thor, Hercules, Captain America, Batman, Pikachu

u forgot wolverine and black panther,also ogun along with stick

Batgirl

definitly batman. since he already has no powers he's trained his whole life to combat many villans that DO have powers and he still beats them. definitly batman would be the best.

Karate Kid as his powers are his fighting skills.

I'd vote Wonder Woman too.

iron fist

wouldnt captain america become very weak without the supersoldier joice or watever it called

karate kid. none can stand up to him.

From all I hear about him, I'd have to go wtih Karate Kid.

And then a very close second would be Wonder Woman I think.

supre u are correct with out powers captain would be a nuthing he only would weigh 100 punds and he wouldent even be strong enough to lift a rifle.

wait wouldnt Daredevil technically be good "too"
were going for best fighter

karate kid prolly

I'm pretty sure that Batgirl is better than Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman's supposed to of trained for hundreds and/or thousands of years with and without powers. If Batgirl out ranks her in martial arts then I'm sorry, Wonder Woman, your island needs to be nuked because your people and culture are useless.

Champion ... do Iron Fist's Chi abilities count as a "power"?

Galactus (even without the powers he's still about 80 feet tall)

Probably Wonder Woman

Champion would kick WW's ass.... he's ancient and has apparently mastered every form of martial arts in the MU.... plus he's big, so he has the strength and reach advantage

I was thinking out of the more major characters.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Galactus (even without the powers he's still about 80 feet tall)

My Exitar trumps your Galactus. Then I answer "Eternity" to whatever you say next.

The problem with Wonderwoman is, she doesn't really show off her martial arts prowess. So while she may "be" a martial arts master, she never shows it. At the very least, she never shows any skill to match someone like Batgirl, Lady Shiva, Batman 1 Million, etc. (Bats 1 Million would win, btw, if we're disregarding KK, because he definitely IS pre crisis...) Champion's in the same boat as WW. He's supposed to be some godly, untouchable martial artist, but he went down freaking Hulk style when fighting Thanos, and didn't give She Hulk much of a fight either.

Oh, and both DD and Cap would be screwed here. Cap gets weak and skinny, Daredevil REALLY becomes blind.

Originally posted by Dizzle
My Exitar trumps your Galactus. Then I answer "Eternity" to whatever you say next.

an Infinite.... bee yatch!




(Eternity was almost the size of one of their hands)

I didn't want to, but... Flash Prime. He's still omnipresent, right?

That failing, I'll take it down a notch and say the Presence.

Taskmaster

Karate Kid by so far it's silly.

Originally posted by Wolverines fury
so lets say that every one some how loses all their powers who would be the must powerful.
(all non mutants lose whatever armour, guns, ectera)

I definitely say the Bat or Cap...yeah one or the other....definitely.

Originally posted by meep-meep
I definitely say the Bat or Cap...yeah one or the other....definitely.

Not that I like the character as such -- 'cause I don't -- but it's not exaggerating to suggest that Karate Kid could beat up both Batman and Captain America at the same time while sipping a soda and watching a daytime soap.

What about Beta Ray Bill? Does he have to lose his cybernetic body?

karatey kid
master x
stick
shang chi
champion of the universe
batman
captain america
wolverine
shiva
black panther
daredevil

I still say Pikachu.

Champion should be more skilled than Wondy.

Pikachu's a vicious little thing.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Pikachu's a vicious little thing.

Woah. I just thought of something.

Pikachu is basically Pokemon's Batman.

No really. Think about it.

He would sometimes lose the first fight. Then go back and get some prep in. Then he woulc come back and rock the hell out of his opponent.

This is, of course, when I used to be a big fan of the show, haha. But I remember when he got spanked by Raichu. And then after a bit of healing and some prep time, he came back and stomped the hell out of Raichu.

Pikachu=Batman.

metal that is true lol

i would be the strongest i had no powers lol

Thor, Hercules and Wonder Woman will be up there.
Thor has millenia of experience, same for Herc and Diana.

Batman obviously due to the fact he has no powers......
So would Karate kid

Daredevil has lost his powers a few times before and whilst there was a significant decline in his skills, he was still very good.......

I think that Black Cat, Nightwing, Deathstroke, cyclops, Wolverine, Ogun and shadowcat all deserve honourable mentions.....

Originally posted by Superherovandal
I'm pretty sure that Batgirl is better than Wonder Woman.


Um. No. Batgirl took EVERYTHING she had to defeat Lady Shiva. Wonder Woman however beat Lady Shiva casually in a training exercise (offpanel). THAN she took on Cheetah, Lady Shiva and Killer Croc all on at once. Later in the very same comic, we see in the background the villains being wheeled out in carts.

http://img58.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img58&image=wwtrain4fd.jpg

This is WITHOUT powers.

Wonder Woman isn't even close here. How is she getting so many votes? How is she even getting one vote?

What Esteemed said. Nobody's arguing Wonder Woman with her normal abilities can't rock Lady Shiva's world. Take those away, though, and leave her with only skill to fall back on ... and I'm not so sure she'd beat Shiva.

Now intuitively, it would seem that Wonder Woman ought to be able to because she's been fighting since long before Shiva's parents ever even MET and is therefore far more experienced ... but we know how much that counts for most of the time in comics.

And then, too, in all fairness, it could easily be said that there are dimishing returns -- that you can only get so far in fighting skill before there just isn't that much left to learn, really. So really, SHOULD WW's greater experience necessarily count for so much anyway?

Of course, it's all moot. Karate Kid is the obvious winner. The only real discussion involves who gets second place.

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
This is WITHOUT powers.

Wonder Woman isn't even close here. How is she getting so many votes? How is she even getting one vote?

DUH. I read the freaking thread title.

Wonder Woman WAS without her powers in the comic. She had her powers nullified to make it a more even fight. Though I'm not sure how....

Originally posted by Orestes
What Esteemed said. Nobody's arguing Wonder Woman with her normal abilities can't rock Lady Shiva's world. Take those away, though, and leave her with only skill to fall back on ... and I'm not so sure she'd beat Shiva.

How? She's trained and mastered every martial art before by the time she was eleven.

By all logic, Lady Shiva should get completely owned.

Originally posted by Orestes
Now intuitively, it would seem that Wonder Woman ought to be able to because she's been fighting since long before Shiva's parents ever even MET and is therefore far more experienced ... but we know how much that counts for most of the time in comics.

Yeah like the Thing or Captain America somehow outfighting Thor. Which is bullsh** to me.

Originally posted by Orestes
And then, too, in all fairness, it could easily be said that there are dimishing returns -- that you can only get so far in fighting skill before there just isn't that much left to learn, really. So really, SHOULD WW's greater experience necessarily count for so much anyway?

Not necessarily. Diana had loads of time to use her skills. Like hell dimensions and sparring with thousands of OTHER highly-proficent warrior women.

Originally posted by Orestes
Of course, it's all moot. Karate Kid is the obvious winner. The only real discussion involves who gets second place.

To me it's Karate Kid, then Champion, then it's toss-up for all the rest of the places.

Champions been around longer than WW and Thor. Champion would probably be the man to beat.

Champion
KK
WW

She did not MASTER anything but swords and shields, lasso, typical Amazonian weaponry. She is merely an EXPERT at all forms of classic combat.

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
She did not MASTER anything but swords and shields, lasso, typical Amazonian weaponry. She is merely an EXPERT at all forms of classic combat.

Please. Tell me you're not arguing with ME about the prowess of Wonder Woman's abilities.

The above would certainly qualify for Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman. But it's completely off base for Current Wonder Woman. Especially with her various and confusing retcons.

Batman 1 Million might actually give KK a run for his money. Ok, maybe not, but he'd take 2nd pretty easily. Even barring psionics and his kickarse suit.

1. KK
2. Bats 1M
3. Should be Champ
4. Should probly be a "ancient god people" tossup... Thor, WW, Herc, stuff like that.
5. Batgirl/Shiva

Seriously though, showings of fighting skill for all of them are pretty low. Diana might even edge out Champion, going by feats alone. I know he's "mastered" all forms of combat, but where were they when he was basically asking for Thanos to beat the crap out of him?

what about Temugin? he managed to crack Iron Man's armour and he never had powers to start with

I know one thing, people like superman would get their ass kicked or killed all the time.

uperman:"Hold it, buddy! put the money back in the cash register!"



Crook:"Who the **** said that!?! Show your self!"



Crook:"I said come out motha****er!"




Superman:"Oh my gawd!!!!!!"

"Powwwwww!"

Well i think its fair to count Daredevil out.
how `bout:
Nick Fury
He heads the entire world order. I fig. he may even know how to take out Cap. with his powers.

What about Wildcat he's been fighting a long time and fights super powered guys sometimes. He's a member of the JSA. Or maybe Zauriel he only has like over a million years of fighting experiance. Hawkman but thats probably only with weapons and maybe Lady Shiva.

If fighting experiance counts then it has to be Zauriel

nick fury has sparred with captian befor but lost.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Champion ... do Iron Fist's Chi abilities count as a "power"?

Galactus (even without the powers he's still about 80 feet tall) In terms of raw adroitness, I know Champion know about every style in the universe, so its him or KK

Karate Kid probably

Champions been around for millions or possibly billions of years. He was their at the beginning with the Elders Of The Universe.

In issue #254 FF4, Galactus stated that he was around for about 20 billion years. The Elders, I think have been around longer.

Champ should be the man to be beat.

yet he loses to SHe Hulk

Daredevil would simply be a blind boi, if he didn't have his fancy radar thingy. Plus all his enchanced natural abilities, to look at are all the assassin types as well. Where I'd aim towards Deadpool,Batman,Deathstroke, (as Deathstroke fought against Wonder woman before with her powers) Tho she beat him only with her strength.
Wolverine does have a lot of training as well, being more a military stand point. However, I think this bought is more towards the tactical assassin types

jplatinum would be

Batman takes this.

WW and Thor have well u know.
Batgirl,Daredevil,Deathstroke have enhanced abilities.

Good thread.

The Champion

the question is: who is the biggest?

Originally posted by supremthor
wouldnt captain america become very weak without the supersoldier joice or watever it called

He already had his serum taken from him and he still proved to be a great fighter with out the serum.

Batman and his clan would own everybody.














Deny it.










Robin with his bo staff.










Nightwing with his Escrima.........























Batman with his ultility belt.........................The S shield means nothing here.

I didn't go completely through the thread, but nobody mentioned Lady Shiva during the first two pages, so i'll assume she was not mentione at all. Though she has been bested by Batman and Batgirl (Cassandra) before, I still have to give her my vote. She is supposd to be the best fighter on earth in the DC universe. While wolverine is arguably the best fighter in the Marve universe, I think most of that is relint on a healing factor, heightened senses (easier to sneak up on people when you can smell and hear them at a greater distance) and his claws. Lady Shiva however, is all female fury....no powers.

Unless the SSS counts as a power, then I say Captain America.

That is, second only to Karate Kid. Since, well, he's a walking plot device.

Imo, Batman can beat Cap if all was equal.

isnt giganta normally big??

I'll go a bit fanboy and say Batman. batman

Originally posted by UniOmni
Imo, Batman can beat Cap if all was equal.

If there were no gadgets, weapsons, items, anything at all...just those two in Boxers' shorts...Cap definitely wins the majority here after an extremely long match.

Certaintly not Batman , being that damn skilled and 'peak human' (Which is a euphanism for a reality warper) HAS to be a power.

Mantis

I think if powers are taken away, then DD's blindness should as well, for the purpose of this match.

And well we're at 'honourable mentions', I have to say, she's not the best, but if DD is continuously being mentioned, then Elektra should be as well. Wildcat too, he's supposed to be one of the top fighters in the DCU. And Kingpin's pretty good as well, he should not be among the top ten, but if everyone was powerless, he would stand a fair chance.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
If there were no gadgets, weapsons, items, anything at all...just those two in Boxers' shorts...Cap definitely wins the majority here after an extremely long match.

Sure........Hence me adding, both in equal bodies.

Cap is peak human. Batman isn't.

Bruce imo, is more skilled than Cap.

Bats is peak human

The smartest one.

Karate Kid! Anybody that can give Superman trouble and use his superhuman abilities against him gets my vote without Kryptonite gets my vote

Karate Kid......................

Hulk.
And Hulk Killer Huminiod.

Squirrel Girl would probably beat everyone mentioned in this thread. even with no powers.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Squirrel Girl would probably beat everyone mentioned in this thread. even with no powers. Dont forget Howard the duck.

Where does Deathstroke rank in all of this?

black lash

Karate Kid of Legion of Super-Heroes would get my vote here, he has no powers but has mastered every form of martial arts known in the 30th century and has some real good feats to his name.

Originally posted by bigbran
Hulk.

How so? Hulk with no powers is just Bruce Banner, he would get his ass handed to him.

Batman.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Squirrel Girl would probably beat everyone mentioned in this thread. even with no powers.
2nd, with a elepi-delta level mutant power she took down Thanos and Doom.

Tony Stark FTW!

Originally posted by IronManZ06
Tony Stark FTW! Welcome

Dr. Doom. He landed in heroes reborn universe but naked and took the whole place over... he has no "powers" his genius intellilect and sorcery are all earned. :P

Karate Kid. DUH!!!!

woops... it says best fighter... I don't know why i was thinking "most powerful character"... :/

yah... kk has gots to have it.. then iron fist, shangchi and the bats family... and cap would not be on batman's level... physically he'd be too weak. :/