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Both have a week of prep, what happens, fight happens in NYC.

My vote goes to Apoc.

My votes for Sinister based solely on the fact that he has a week of prep and knows Apocalypse's weaknesses like the back of his hand. He has already bio-engineered the instrument of Apocalypse's destruction before, and more than likely could clone another (or a few) Cable/Stryfe/X-Man in a week through accelerated cloning techniques.

Or he could simply create a machine that attacks Apocalypse's molecular cohesion at the atomic level.

Knowledge is truly power.

Only catch is Apoc could use the week of prep beefing up his defenses and removing his molecular cohesion weakness, which would effectively leave him invincible to any type of physical/energy/matter manipulation attacks, and leave him slightly vulnerable to psionics.

No prep, I see Apoc seriously crushing Sinister head up.

apoc

In terms of sheer power, Apocalypse literally shit-stomps Sinister. But in terms of prep? Apoc has demonstrated some good tech prep before, but Essex has him outclassed in devious, raw cunning.

Question is, will it matter? A week seems a bit short for Sinister to come up with something. And as mentioned, Nur is not without his own prep stuff.

^ yeah, apoc likes to let his opponents make a grandiose speech explaining how they've won, only to flip it all around with his own superior prep that calculated the prep of his opponent and surpasses it.

stryfe got the better of sinister so he isn't perfect.

Apocalypse destroys him. Mr. Sinister was preparing his whole life to destroy Apocalypse, still hasn't succeed. Apocalypse in one moment would destroy him for good, if he chooses so. Also about pure intelligence, Apocalypse is smarter than him.

Apocalypse is leagues above in all departments that it isn't even funny.

It says something about how hard it is to kill Apoc that Sinister tried 3 times to kill him, and failed each time. Nate Grey was the only thing he ever made that might have done it. And that took a life time of research and careful gene manipulation and growth.

Apocalypse destroys him like the backstabber he is.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It says something about how hard it is to kill Apoc that Sinister tried 3 times to kill him, and failed each time.

all it says is just how incompetent Sinister is

how exactly does apoc take sinister out? sinister has sh!t stomped the xmen/xfactor as easily as apoc has, he's stood toe-to-toe with goblyn queen maddie, his psionics were enough to impress exodus. he's amped himself with dna from loads of mutants so essentially he's a walking amalgam.

BOTH have low showings, but BOTH have very high ones as well. at their respective bests, i think this is far closer than most are saying.

6/10 apoc. maybe.

Apocalypse wins. Sinister could beat him with prep, but he would need much more than a week to do it. More like years.

If their target was to kill, let's say Thor, with prep. Then I'm sure that Sinister would do much better than Apocalypse.

But Sinister can not kill Apocalypse.

Originally posted by llagrok
If their target was to kill, let's say Thor, with prep. Then I'm sure that Sinister would do much better than Apocalypse.

But Sinister can not kill Apocalypse.

why not?

Originally posted by leonidas
why not?

Because he hasn't managed to so far.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Because he hasn't managed to so far. If you want to get technical he has, indirectly, via the creation of Cable by manipulating Madelyn Pryor and Cyclops into getting together. Bear in mind, it was Cable who managed to finally kill Apoc, albiet with help. So in the long term, you could say Sinister had suceeded in the end.

Well, until Cable resurrected Nur later.

Originally posted by cyberborg84
If you want to get technical he has, indirectly, via the creation of Cable by manipulating Madelyn Pryor and Cyclops into getting together. Bear in mind, it was Cable who managed to finally kill Apoc, albiet with help. So in the long term, you could say Sinister had suceeded in the end.

Well, until Cable resurrected Nur later.

Er no. Very imaginative however.

apoc all day

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Er no. Very imaginative however. Which is why I clarified my statements with words like If you want to get technical and indirectly. Directly speaking, Sinister hasn't even gotten close to beating Apoc. However, in the long term, his original machinations led to Nur's eventual death. Who knows what would've happened if Cable had *not* been around to deliver the coup de grace that killed Apoc?

Apocalypse made Sinister and gave him his powers. That's why I give Apoc the edge. He knows how to remove them, IMO.

Originally posted by LORD B
apoc all day

And everyday.

Originally posted by leonidas
how exactly does apoc take sinister out? sinister has sh!t stomped the xmen/xfactor as easily as apoc has, he's stood toe-to-toe with goblyn queen maddie, his psionics were enough to impress exodus. he's amped himself with dna from loads of mutants so essentially he's a walking amalgam.

BOTH have low showings, but BOTH have very high ones as well. at their respective bests, i think this is far closer than most are saying.

6/10 apoc. maybe.

Come on man. Don't be ridiculous. Is that why Sinister trembles when he sees Apocalypse. He is pretty much, always was, afraid of Apocalypse.
That is why he was always doing behind his back to destroy him and if he would be powerful enough, he would go into battle in toe to toe and took him out himself. But he knows Apocalypse would remove him from existence.


Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apocalypse made Sinister and gave him his powers. That's why I give Apoc the edge. He knows how to remove them, IMO.

And is also far more powerful.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Come on man. Don't be ridiculous. Is that why Sinister trembles when he sees Apocalypse. He is pretty much, always was, afraid of Apocalypse.
That is why he was always doing behind his back to destroy him and if he would be powerful enough, he would go into battle in toe to toe and took him out himself. But he knows Apocalypse would remove him from existence.




And is also far more powerful.

yeah, i keep hearing an awful lot of 'apoc is more powerful.' cept, i've not seen the scans to prove it. based on powersets, there is no reason sinister can't match apoc in terms of power. if trick is right, and apoc can remove his power, then certainly he wins. sinister's powers are inconsistent, apoc has loads of low showings and some high ones. sinsiter has the powers of a dozen xmen when done correctly. both have crushed the xmen in battle.

i fail to see how this is anything but close. scans please, and stop with the 'c'mon, obviously apoc is more powerful . . .' nonsense.

show, don't tell.

think of it as darkseid > desaad.

remember, apocalypse's modus operandi stops him from killing sinister, he created him after all for a purpose, make more mutants/destroy humanity.

moses magnum, the dark riders, exodus, mr.sinister, etc all parts of the big plan.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i keep hearing an awful lot of 'apoc is more powerful.' cept, i've not seen the scans to prove it. based on powersets, there is no reason sinister can't match apoc in terms of power. if trick is right, and apoc can remove his power, then certainly he wins. sinister's powers are inconsistent, apoc has loads of low showings and some high ones. sinsiter has the powers of a dozen xmen when done correctly. both have crushed the xmen in battle.

i fail to see how this is anything but close. scans please, and stop with the 'c'mon, obviously apoc is more powerful . . .' nonsense.

show, don't tell.

So you think Apocalypse created someone as powerful as himself? Sinister was always shown to be afraid of Apocalypse. Why do you think he never attacked him himself, but was doing behind his back in his words ''ultimate mutant'' to defeat Apocalypse. Sinister thought he needs ultimate mutant to kill Apocalypse.

Come on, Sinister cannot close match Apocalypse raw power. To show you scans about Apocalypse obviously being more powerful. Apocalypse fought and shown to be in their league when faced PE Ikaris, High Evolutionary, Loki man. Enough said.

Look how powerful was Moses Magnum, but wasn't something to Apocalypse.

Don't be funny.

apoc can grow to over 100 feet tall and step on Sinister....Sinister cannot

Originally posted by Xplosive
So you think Apocalypse created someone as powerful as himself? Sinister was always shown to be afraid of Apocalypse. Why do you think he never attacked him himself, but was doing behind his back in his words ''ultimate mutant'' to defeat Apocalypse. Sinister thought he needs ultimate mutant to kill Apocalypse.

Come on, Sinister cannot close match Apocalypse raw power. To show you scans about Apocalypse obviously being more powerful. Apocalypse fought and shown to be in their league when faced PE Ikaris, High Evolutionary, Loki man. Enough said.

Look how powerful was Moses Magnum, but wasn't something to Apocalypse.

Don't be funny.

i've seen him battle both ikaris and the HE. i also said apoc would win the majority, so in the big picture we agree. however, since the time of his creation, sinister has gotten MORE powerful. again, he's an amalgamation of a LOT of powerful mutants. imo going 1on1 with goblyn queen is comparable to going 1on1 with HE or ikaris.

all's i'm saying is that there is more to it than 'apoc made him so he wins'. sinister>then when he was first made. ignoring that apoc made him, looking at just feats and showings, this is far closer than most are willing to admit

oh, and tough to step on sinister when he can teleport . . .

I would think Apocalypse.

Originally posted by leonidas
i've seen him battle both ikaris and the HE. i also said apoc would win the majority, so in the big picture we agree. however, since the time of his creation, sinister has gotten MORE powerful. again, he's an amalgamation of a LOT of powerful mutants. imo going 1on1 with goblyn queen is comparable to going 1on1 with HE or ikaris.

all's i'm saying is that there is more to it than 'apoc made him so he wins'. sinister>then when he was first made. ignoring that apoc made him, looking at just feats and showings, this is far closer than most are willing to admit

oh, and tough to step on sinister when he can teleport . . .

He had prep and one of his bases for Maddie. That's not a showing for him personally, it's a showing for his tech and prep.

1 week is not enough time for him to get that kind of base together, and if he does that, Apoc can bring a celestial ship anyway.

The reason we're bringing up the Apoc made him thing, is that Apoc always puts failsafes into his horsemen and minions. Moses Magnum, The Harbinger, his own descendants even.

They can both teleport.

Ignoring that Apoc probably has an instant kill set up for him and that his tech is much much better, it's a decent fight. Apoc would indeed have to work for it. But Apocalypse's tech is vastly superior to what Sinister has. So the prep match goes to him. And Sinister has only once made something that could beat Apocalypse, Nate Grey. Every other time he prepped, he failed.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
it's a decent fight.

I don't think it would be decent fight. It's a mismatch to the core.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
He had prep and one of his bases for Maddie. That's not a showing for him personally, it's a showing for his tech and prep.

1 week is not enough time for him to get that kind of base together, and if he does that, Apoc can bring a celestial ship anyway.

The reason we're bringing up the Apoc made him thing, is that Apoc always puts failsafes into his horsemen and minions. Moses Magnum, The Harbinger, his own descendants even.

They can both teleport.

Ignoring that Apoc probably has an instant kill set up for him and that his tech is much much better, it's a decent fight. Apoc would indeed have to work for it. But Apocalypse's tech is vastly superior to what Sinister has. So the prep match goes to him. And Sinister has only once made something that could beat Apocalypse, Nate Grey. Every other time he prepped, he failed.

actually i think you're wrong about the prep he had for maddie. he was shocked at her power if i remember correctly, and his prep failed in her case as she busted out of the chains he had her in. another case of someone equalling or excelling the being that created them . . .

you may well be right about the insta-death thing, but there is no evidence to suggest it afaik so it can't really be claimed in this case, trick.

anyway, i think we agree more than we disagree. i also think it would be a close match, but i think in overall power apoc does him him by a little bit. but as you said -- he'd have to work for it and i could see sinister taking some from him.

Originally posted by illadelph12
My votes for Sinister based solely on the fact that he has a week of prep and knows Apocalypse's weaknesses like the back of his hand. He has already bio-engineered the instrument of Apocalypse's destruction before, and more than likely could clone another (or a few) Cable/Stryfe/X-Man in a week through accelerated cloning techniques.

Or he could simply create a machine that attacks Apocalypse's molecular cohesion at the atomic level.

Knowledge is truly power.

Only catch is Apoc could use the week of prep beefing up his defenses and removing his molecular cohesion weakness, which would effectively leave him invincible to any type of physical/energy/matter manipulation attacks, and leave him slightly vulnerable to psionics.

No prep, I see Apoc seriously crushing Sinister head up.

I stand by what I said 2 and a half years ago. Sinister already has the genetic templates for Nate Grey and Madeline Pryor at his disposal, as well as the ability to mass produce clones of all of his Marauders when necessary. In a week given what Sinister already has on hand he could amass an army with beings he doesn't need to create from scratch. He could incubate a platoon of Nate Greys in a week. I'm an Apocalypse supporter (as many know) and I don't think it will be a curbstomp on Sinister's side, but moreso the issue is that though Apoc has the week of prep as well, Sinister can generate a numbers and abilities advantage with his own resources. I've yet to see Apocalypse genetically engineer en masse like I have Sinister, and a lot of his grandiose plans involev other people being manipulated to meet his ends. In a head up battle Apocalypse would crush Sinister easily. However, after a week, Sinister could have produced about 30 Nate Greys and Madeline Pryors to help him, and hundreds of Marauders. Apocalypse doesn't usually create his help from scratch, he modifies previously existing characters and subjugates them to his will, so given the stipulations of this battle I don't think Apocalypse would be able to enlist the outside help of others and would have to create additional help, something I haven't seen him do. That's the only edge I see Sinister having. It's not a matter of Sinister being more powerful than Apoc, it's a matter of Sinister already having in place resources to utilize during the week.

No prep and Apocalypse all day.

With prep things get cloudy due to what Sinister already has on hand.

.

Apoc >>> Sinister. But I love Sinister tho.

i REALLY don't get why everyone keeps saying apoc>>>sinister. based on feats (both high and low) he most certainly is not.

I have no justification for my argument in this thread other than...

Sinister <<< Apocalypse.

Originally posted by leonidas
why not?

Because he has spent over a life time trying and failed every time.

What's he going do in 10 minutes?

Sinister himself even stated that he wouldn't survive Apocalypse's wrath or something like that.

Originally posted by cyberborg84
If you want to get technical he has, indirectly, via the creation of Cable by manipulating Madelyn Pryor and Cyclops into getting together. Bear in mind, it was Cable who managed to finally kill Apoc, albiet with help. So in the long term, you could say Sinister had suceeded in the end.

Well, until Cable resurrected Nur later.

Apocalypse regenerated on his own pretty much, but I suppose Cable helped him.

It's not like Sinister will be able to call upon help from Cable this time anyways and Cable had help from Jean.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i keep hearing an awful lot of 'apoc is more powerful.' cept, i've not seen the scans to prove it. based on powersets, there is no reason sinister can't match apoc in terms of power. if trick is right, and apoc can remove his power, then certainly he wins.

Originally posted by leonidas
i fail to see how this is anything but close. scans please, and stop with the 'c'mon, obviously apoc is more powerful . . .' nonsense.

show, don't tell.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/apocadaptmolcularstructure.png

Originally posted by leonidas
sinsiter has the powers of a dozen xmen when done correctly. both have crushed the xmen in battle

Apocalypse has actually fought some herald level people.


As for Madelyne Pryor, Sinister used tech to defeat her.

Originally posted by leonidas
apoc has loads of low showings.

No, not really.

Originally posted by leonidas
i REALLY don't get why everyone keeps saying apoc>>>sinister. based on feats (both high and low) he most certainly is not.

Old friend, simplicity is the KMC way.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/apocadaptmolcularstructure.png

you see, now i can respect that. i still think based on powersets and feats, this would be closer than everyone seems to believe, but finally someone has shown me something that supports what was being said. well done.



so have loads of people.



nah. he used some defensive tech in his hide out to hold her. he did briefly face off against her and before the final battle could be fought she left. in the same regard, apoc needed to use tech to try and battle loki. again, feat-wise, there is little evidence at all to suggest apoc wins this in a route. your scan seems to suggest sinister DOES fear him though. one thing -- how long in the past was that scene set? like i said, mr s has GROWN in power over time, splicing dna from various mutants into his own. he is likely a lot more powerful currently, than he was back then . . .



all righty then.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Old friend, simplicity is the KMC way.



tru dat. i have no problem being swayed. i have no real vested interest in either character. based on what i've seen of both though, it appears their relative power levels are at least reasonably close.

the scan above does shift my opinion though. if mr s is afraid of him, it must be for a reason. though i do wonder if that reason isn't simply a father's fear of a son. my 'theories' are just that though, in the face of the above scan, so i relent.

at least until such time comes where they DO battle, and it's hella closer than everyone thinks.

Originally posted by leonidas
so have loads of people.

Except Sinister...

Originally posted by leonidas
nah. he used some defensive tech in his hide out to hold her. he did briefly face off against her and before the final battle could be fought she left. in the same regard, apoc needed to use tech to try and battle loki. again, feat-wise, there is little evidence at all to suggest apoc wins this in a route.

What?


The Loki fight was quite different. Apoc actually took on Loki for a while and hurt him. Sinister got blasted down by Madelyne Pryor and immediately used tech to defeat her.

Originally posted by leonidas
one thing -- how long in the past was that scene set? like i said, mr s has GROWN in power over time, splicing dna from various mutants into his own. he is likely a lot more powerful currently, than he was back then . . .

That events in that scan is actually a flashback, told by Sinister in the PRESENT. Also, Sinister during that that time, in the scan I posted, already showed capable of shape-shifting and telekinesis, so, he isn't really that far off from his present days power levels anyway.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Except Sinister...

point is trading blows with a herald isn't a very big deal and really isn't an effective gauge of power. beating one is a little different story.





actually the tech didn't defeat her and at heart it is the same thing. BOTH needed tech to combat an adversary. the difference -- we never saw if sinister could have defeated maddie. we KNOW apoc couldn't beat -- or even hold -- loki, who is less than a herald . . .




fair enough. anyway, the only way we'll ever really know i suppose is if they square off. personally, it's a fight i'd love to see.

Sinister is cool...one of my favorite characters. However, Apocalypse is certainly capable of destroying what he created, especially with equal prep...Hell, Apoc probably only needs one day to Sinister's week.

Originally posted by leonidas
BOTH needed tech to combat an adversary. the difference -- we never saw if sinister could have defeated maddie. we KNOW apoc couldn't beat -- or even hold -- loki, who is less than a herald...

No no. Apocalypse actually took on Loki himself, he used tech to capture Loki, but he fought Loki on his own.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No no. Apocalypse actually took on Loki himself, he used tech to capture Loki, but he fought Loki on his own. Some might even concider it a win for Apocalypse

Originally posted by norrinradd43
Some might even concider it a win for Apocalypse

they'd be wrong of course, but they could think that i guess. and again, trading some blows is no big deal. apoc was shown as being unable to beat loki on his own so needed tech. and even then he couldn't hold him.

loki>apoc and loki<herald is all's i'm saying. but that's off-topic and this discussion is going no where. i learned a couple things though, which was the point of my chiming in.

Originally posted by leonidas
they'd be wrong of course, but they could think that i guess. and again, trading some blows is no big deal. apoc was shown as being unable to beat loki on his own so needed tech. and even then he couldn't hold him.

loki>apoc and loki<herald is all's i'm saying. but that's off-topic and this discussion is going no where. i learned a couple things though, which was the point of my chiming in.

What are you babbling about. Apocalypse was actually shown that he can fight and hurt Loki on his own. Loki didn't do anything in the fight and didn't even hurt Apocalypse. Apocalypse wanted to capture him with tech, that was his goal. Loki saved himself and didn't want to continue the fight. So we can also say, Loki saw that he can't beat and manipulate with Apocalypse, so he left, ran away.

The point is that he went to fight against Loki on his own (and it isn't coincidence since he also faced beings more than just Loki who are in such league). Sinister doesn't even dare to think to face Apocalypse on his own in a fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
they'd be wrong of course, but they could think that i guess. and again, trading some blows is no big deal. apoc was shown as being unable to beat loki on his own so needed tech. and even then he couldn't hold him.

loki>apoc and loki<herald is all's i'm saying. but that's off-topic and this discussion is going no where. i learned a couple things though, which was the point of my chiming in.

Untrue.


It wasn't said at all that Apoc NEEDED tech to defeat Loki nor that he couldn't defeat Loki, heck, Apoc even stated that he will oppose Loki when and wherever he can.

Apocalypse for the win

Originally posted by Xplosive
What are you babbling about. Apocalypse was actually shown that he can fight and hurt Loki on his own. Loki didn't do anything in the fight and didn't even hurt Apocalypse. Apocalypse wanted to capture him with tech, that was his goal. Loki saved himself and didn't want to continue the fight. So we can also say, Loki saw that he can't beat and manipulate with Apocalypse, so he left, ran away.

The point is that he went to fight against Loki on his own (and it isn't coincidence since he also faced beings more than just Loki who are in such league). Sinister doesn't even dare to think to face Apocalypse on his own in a fight.

babbling?



and . . . this is why i don't debate a character with someone who has said character in their avy or sig.

convenient how you neglect to mention that apoc actually needed caliban to distract and back attack loki so that he could get him into his trap in the first place. why would he need a trap -- or help -- if he was so sure he could simply beat loki? please. but i'll not debate loki v apoc with you. clear where you'll stand on that issue.

what was clear was that not only did apoc PLAN on using tech, he needed HELP to get loki into the trap. and please, show me a scan where apoc actually 'hurt' loki. far as i recall, he grew big and loki ran into him. you think running into something can hurt a god?? one who's had his friggin head CUT OFF??

back to my original point -- apoc needed tech against loki (AND help from caliban), sinister needed tech against goblyn queen. simple as. and who cares who apoc has traded blows with?? spiderman and thing have traded blows with thanos, for gawd's sake. trading blows for a bit is meaningless.

but forget all that. here's your big chance to convert me to the curbstomp you seem to want everyone to think this will be. just name me the mightiest being apoc actually DEFEATED in single combat that will make me believe he is 'soooooo much' more powerful than sinister. cuz it's a fact that AS IT STANDS, apoc has exactly ZERO feats to support that notion . . .

sinister's words condemn him. NOT apoc's feats.

Loki can be hurt, he just can't be killed by conventional means.

Originally posted by leonidas
convenient how you neglect to mention that apoc actually needed caliban to distract and back attack loki so that he could get him into his trap in the first place. why would he need a trap -- or help -- if he was so sure he could simply beat loki? please. but i'll not debate loki v apoc with you. clear where you'll stand on that issue.

Why would Sinister be wasting hundreds of years to create an overly powerful mutant to defeat Apocalypse if he can do it on his own?

Originally posted by leonidas
what was clear was that not only did apoc PLAN on using tech, he needed HELP to get loki into the trap. and please, show me a scan where apoc actually 'hurt' loki. far as i recall, he grew big and loki ran into him. you think running into something can hurt a god?? one who's had his friggin head CUT OFF??

Considering the fact that Loki was on the floor, looking like he is cringing in pain, yes, he was hurt.


Heck even Caliban hurt Loki the next page.

Originally posted by leonidas
and who cares who apoc has traded blows with?? spiderman and thing have traded blows with thanos, for gawd's sake. trading blows for a bit is meaningless.



Originally posted by leonidas
but forget all that. here's your big chance to convert me to the curbstomp you seem to want everyone to think this will be. just name me the mightiest being apoc actually DEFEATED in single combat that will make me believe he is 'soooooo much' more powerful than sinister. cuz it's a fact that AS IT STANDS, apoc has exactly ZERO feats to support that notion . . .

Prime Eternal Ikaris.

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
Why would Sinister be wasting hundreds of years to create an overly powerful mutant to defeat Apocalypse if he can do it on his own?

please show me where i said sinister could do it on his own. i have REPEATEDLY said apoc has the advantage. however, based on FEATS, this fight is much closer than most seem to want to admit.



cringing in pain?

anyway, shall i bring up some pis moments for apoc to counter this . . .?



he hurt him a lot more than apoc did. course it WAS from behind . . . i wonder what loki could do to apoc if he were given a free shot from behind?




my sentiments exactly.



huh?? he didn't win that fight, not in any definitive way. it too was inconclusive. they both got sucked out into space and apoc flew off. did apoc hurt him? sure. did ik hurt apoc? yes. that fight was no more definitive than the loki fight. but at least apoc didn't use tech . . .

it's quite clear that the only thing apoc really has over sinister is sinister's own words. i can accept that. but please don't go around claiming this is a curbstomp based on powersets or feats, cuz that is most clearly not the case. both have handled the x-men and x-force like children. sinister has easily bested nate and wiped out jean on the astral plane. apoc has had more appearances, but his actual VICTORIES are no more impressive than sinister's.

apoc wins, but it's closer than most want to admit.

Originally posted by leonidas
cringing in pain?

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/X-Factor_503.jpg

Originally posted by Bad Ash231
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/X-Factor_503.jpg



yeah, i suppose that's cringing, or . . . something. looks more pissed than hurt. regardless, in his defense, at least loki didn't have to duck . . .

sinister is like apocalypse, only in larval stage

Originally posted by leonidas
huh?? he didn't win that fight, not in any definitive way. it too was inconclusive. they both got sucked out into space and apoc flew off. did apoc hurt him? sure. did ik hurt apoc? yes.

Yes, of course, I remember how PE Ikaris also made a hole through Apocalypse body.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Yes, of course, I remember how PE Ikaris also made a hole through Apocalypse body.

Apocalypse made the hole, to dodge Ikaris' attack.

Originally posted by leonidas
no wonder i so rarely debate in apoc threads . . .

sigh . . .

to your "point": show me where i actually quantified the damage they did to each other, please. clearly the explosion to his back hurt apoc. as much as getting stabbed through the body? maybe not, but . . . who cares? hurting is NOT winning, like you want to seem to claim.

unfortunately, the only persons kidding themselves are those who think apoc won that fight in anything resembling a definitive manner . . .

Am, yes, Apocalypse literally won that fight by defeating him. You don't need to kill someone to say you defeated him. Apocalypse did defeat him in their battle.

apoc win in a curb stomp....apoc made WARHULK

Originally posted by Xplosive
Am, yes, Apocalypse literally won that fight by defeating him. You don't need to kill someone to say you defeated him. Apocalypse did defeat him in their battle.



so he was strong enough to blow up the ship, strong enough to fly out of there, has complete control over his own atomic structure, is immortal, has survived being completely DISINTEGRATED and yet apoc won cuz he stabbed him. and apparently was sooooo convinced he won, decided to actually fly away instead of finishing ikaris off.

yeah . . . your definition of a decisive victory is different from . . . well, pretty much any rational individual.

my point stands as firm now as it did when i first brought it up -- NOTHING in terms of feats speaks to the fact that apoc>>sinister. nothing at all. if we take away sinister's own words, (which i DO give credence to) this is a very close battle judging by what each has accomplished in battle and feats.