Nataku vs. Khellendros

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



DigiMark007

Scoobless
this should be good

Khellendros
laughing
Oh man... I'm at work right now, so I can only browse/post sporadically. I'll make my first real post later tonight.

Nataku8188
I probably wont get a good argument going till the Battlegrounds honor holiday is over on World of Warcraft, if you don't mind Khell, try to save your arguments for like Monday/Tuesday.

K Von Doom
Originally posted by Nataku8188
I probably wont get a good argument going till the Battlegrounds honor holiday is over on World of Warcraft, if you don't mind Khell, try to save your arguments for like Monday/Tuesday.

Yeah! thumb up

Khellendros
Or I could just wait till Monday. That's fine too.

Scoobless
well it's monday now.............

Dizzle
KILL EACH OTHER DAMMIT! I WANT BLOOD! BLOOD AND GUTS AND FIRE! DAMMIT, KILL! IT'S MONDAY!!!

(wheeeeeee violence!... demon voice off)

Khellendros
Eh, I'm not gonna post arguments per se, I'm just gonna post Grailnighter's bio again and a couple random things.



K. The temp of the room won't effect me because the Wetworks symbiotes can provide protection agaisnt the cold and vacuum of space (they can't provide breathable air, but that's okay, because my guy can exist in an environment completely absent of oxygen). Unfortunately for him, Nataku has the body of a Pred, who thrive in hot jungle-like climates, and who get weak in the cold.

So, he said Monday/Tuesday. I'll split the difference and post an actual opening strategy late tonight, after midnight Central time.

EDIT: Also, I heard recently that the symbiotes contain their wearers body heat, meaning they don't show up on infrared scopes. Not sure if that's BS, so I'm gonna try and confirm since that would be kinda useful against a Predator.

EsteemedLeader
Preds can do very well actually. If anything, pred-ness will protect him in cold. In 'Predator: Cold War', they were running around the frozen arctic in negative temperatures, wearing nothing but those little skimpy light armors, and still kicking ass just the same.

Nataku8188
Predators aren't WEAK in the cold, they just dislike it. Over a long period of time it would affect them, but not in a short fight. Nevermind the fact that Azrael's armor will keep my pred warm as well.

I'll post my bio as well.

Nataku8188
part 2

Khellendros
Okay then. Just to make it perfectly clear, the whole "Preds get weak in the cold" thing is OFFICIALLY STRICKEN FROM MY ARGUMENTS. I want to make that very very clear so that no one chooses that one little argument to base their vote on, completely ignoring the vast majority of my points. Okay.

Since this is an enclosed space, and you can only be so far away, this isn't going to be a " 'port around and snipe at you" type of battle. During the last few seconds of prep I put up a shield. Basically, I'm just going to turn you into swiss cheese with my chield. On of the things Grail can do is change the shape of his shields, making them into combination offense and defense. being backed up by class 30ish strength, the chi spikes will puncture Azreal's clothing. If you try to cut your way through my shield, I'll blast you before you can reach me. You can dodge, but there's only so far you can run in this freezer, so I will get you eventually. I'm gonna go upload scans of Grail doing this right now, just to prove that I'm not full of sh*t.

Khellendros
Here it is. His bodyweight is sufficient to drive them through a bunch of bulletproof dwarves.


http://img417.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shieldshaping10bi.jpg
http://img417.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shieldshaping20he.jpg

EsteemedLeader
I just realized this battlefield made an appearence in 'Predator 2'.laughing

Predator had a pretty good showing in this environment...

Khellendros
Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
I just realized this battlefield made an appearence in 'Predator 2'.laughing

Predator had a pretty good showing in this environment...
I remembered that too. Yet another reason why I dropped it.

Nataku8188
My armor is far more than bulletproof. Show me some scans of it doing damage to some seriously heavily armored opponents. I have Predator armor ontop of my Azrael armor, and I'm wearing medium class, pack leader armor.

Can I get some info on how durable that shield is? can it take blasts from my plasmacaster and/or my lightsaber?

Both questions aside, your only chance is to make a flat wall to crush me, because, as the scan showed, he had to (I'm assuming here, feel free to prove me wrong) use his hands to guide the shape of the forcefield. I can easiliy sense your movements and avoid the oncoming attack. Nevermind the fact that I can jump roughly 25 feet in the air, kick off a wall, flip, and land way far away, firing my shoulder cannon as I go. Another note, if I leap at you and you send a spike at me, I can grasp said spike and use that to manipulate my movements as I jump, unless he can control the shield on extremely delicate levels. (Nevermind that using the shield as a weapon seems like a use of TK to me, Digi can rule on that)

If the shield cannot hold up, and you decide to fire chi blasts at me or warp around, I can deflect chi blasts and use eccentric movements to avoid your attacks and to force you to teleport around the room.

Scoobless
Originally posted by Nataku8188
Can I get some info on how durable that shield is? can it take blasts from my plasmacaster and/or my lightsaber?

titanium max... as per tourney rules

Nataku8188
Titanium max, then I can blast it open easily with several plasma caster shots, and a quick slash from my lightsaber will bring me inside and into melee range, where I am the most dangerous.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Nataku8188
Titanium max, then I can blast it open easily with several plasma caster shots, and a quick slash from my lightsaber will bring me inside and into melee range, where I am the most dangerous.
I can seal the breaches as fast as you can make them, and let us not forget Blink's powers. If I so choose, I can and will redirect your shots back at you if there's a risk they will hit me. Also, my trusty staff is always at hand, for redirections and melee if needed. This thing survived being plunged into the heart of the sun, so I think it'll hold up well to a lightsaber. Also, if you get past my shield, you're just as likely to get torn open with a big blast of chi.

By the way, how well do lightsabers to against energy fields? I know they don't generally cut other lightsabers, and they actually deflect laser blasts instead of letting it pass through. I'm starting to doubt you'll even be able to cut through my forcefield in the first place.

grey fox
hmmmmmmm predator/sith/angsty batman replacement versus Porter/symbiote/chi guy the stakes are verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry high.

Khellendros
Originally posted by grey fox
hmmmmmmm predator/sith/angsty batman replacement versus Porter/symbiote/chi guy the stakes are verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry high.
The stakes are verrrrry high and someone is gonna leave a meessssyyyy corpse. big grin evil face

grey fox
Lol !!

Nataku8188
Originally posted by Khellendros
I can seal the breaches as fast as you can make them, and let us not forget Blink's powers. If I so choose, I can and will redirect your shots back at you if there's a risk they will hit me. Also, my trusty staff is always at hand, for redirections and melee if needed. This thing survived being plunged into the heart of the sun, so I think it'll hold up well to a lightsaber. Also, if you get past my shield, you're just as likely to get torn open with a big blast of chi.

By the way, how well do lightsabers to against energy fields? I know they don't generally cut other lightsabers, and they actually deflect laser blasts instead of letting it pass through. I'm starting to doubt you'll even be able to cut through my forcefield in the first place.

In order to redirect my energy blasts, they have to get through your forcefield in the first place, and which point I can capitalize with barrages of pistol burner rounds to the area around your feet. The plasma 'splashes' (More of a grenade effect) and will cause you damage just by being in the close proximity.

If your field will stand up to my lightsaber or my Magnesium alloy (Gonna guess it's with Promethium, since it stood up to promethium) sword then it's against tournament rules. Lightsabers are ruled as being on par with adamantium for the sakes of damage and such.

Big blast of chi? Chi is energy, lightsabers reflect energy. Chi splashes on contact? Armor can take any sort of damage your chi dishes out. Dachande was hit by a speeder bike, rammed into the spaceship that carried his entire hunting party, and survived the explosion with no damage to his armor and only losing consciousness, no visible injuries whatsoever.

Azrael's padding stood up to a roughly 25 foot tall christmas tree covered with C4 from about 10-15 feet away. Of course, he lost consciousness and the parts of his body that weren't covered were severly burned, but the armor took the blow and he survived.

Your staff can hold up to the lightsaber just fine, it's a matter of standing up to the master weilding said lighstaber that you should be worrying about. Dachande dropped a master predator on one of his first hunts in a honor fight for leadership. Azrael went toe to toe with Deathstroke in a sword fight. Maul took on Qui-Gon and Obi-wan simultaneously, he's also dropped many of the universe's most dangerous assassins. I've got plenty of H2H skills here, hell, that's my specialty.

stormfront13
votin for khell, i believe that khell will have the advantage with blink

grey fox
Nah , khell can teleport as much as he wants but in the end he's gonna end up shishkebab to nataku.

stormfront13
khell can teleport anything that comes his way

DigiMark007
Originally posted by stormfront13
khell can teleport anything that comes his way

True, but only if he can react to it in time and intercept it.

...didn't want people getting the wrong idea. It's all in the character notes for khell on pg. 1

stormfront13
well he should also have enhanced reflexes

Dizzle
MNer's a friggin beast. His presence totally eliminates any surprises that Nataku might decide to pull out, where Grailnighter still has plenty of tricks that Nat won't know about. The portal-behind-his-head thing won't work because of the Force, but I really don't see much of anything hitting Grailnighter either. (Midnighter+Blink... yeah) H2H, Khell has a massive strength advantage, plus the benefits of a force field. Skill wise, Nataku might edge him out by a bit, but Khell can pretty easily overpower him, IMO. The maneuverability advantage also goes to Khellendros for the teleporting. Again, the gap is cut down by the Force and Azrael's system, but I'd still say the scale leans toward Khell.

Voting Khellendros

Khellendros
Originally posted by Nataku8188
In order to redirect my energy blasts, they have to get through your forcefield in the first place, and which point I can capitalize with barrages of pistol burner rounds to the area around your feet. The plasma 'splashes' (More of a grenade effect) and will cause you damage just by being in the close proximity.
Another thing occured to me. You're firing energy blasts. Plasma is basically just really hot stuff. Now, if my shield was actually titanium, you would eventually be able to punch through it. But it isn't it's an energy field that has about the same strength as titanium. I sure hope you've got some examples of Pred plasma punching through energy shields, cause you can't melt through energy.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
If your field will stand up to my lightsaber or my Magnesium alloy (Gonna guess it's with Promethium, since it stood up to promethium) sword then it's against tournament rules. Lightsabers are ruled as being on par with adamantium for the sakes of damage and such.
No, actually it isn't. Lightsabers do allt heir damage because of their heat. You cant melt through an energy field, and you aren't strong enough to just hammer through the equivalent of a titanium sphere. Wheee technicalities are fun.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Big blast of chi? Chi is energy, lightsabers reflect energy.
His chi blasts are a lot larger and more fluid than, say, a laser blast. He can even change their direction in midflight (there will be scans). So, at best all you'll do is split the blast in half, at worst I see what you're doing and cause the blast to move around your 'saber.


Originally posted by Nataku8188
Chi splashes on contact? Armor can take any sort of damage your chi dishes out. Dachande was hit by a speeder bike, rammed into the spaceship that carried his entire hunting party, and survived the explosion with no damage to his armor and only losing consciousness, no visible injuries whatsoever.
Whoa, that is awesome! Too bad it's kinda invalid in this tourney. Titanium strength/melting point limit. And, hell, why hit the Pred armor when I can punch through your little Nomex suit in the places the plates don't cover with spikes formed out of my shield? Yeah, I think I'll do that instead of bothering with your plate armor.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Azrael's padding stood up to a roughly 25 foot tall christmas tree covered with C4 from about 10-15 feet away. Of course, he lost consciousness and the parts of his body that weren't covered were severly burned, but the armor took the blow and he survived.
Chi spikes backed up by class 30 strength are gonna pack a bit more of a punch than a bunch of burning wooden shrapnel.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Your staff can hold up to the lightsaber just fine, it's a matter of standing up to the master weilding said lighstaber that you should be worrying about. Dachande dropped a master predator on one of his first hunts in a honor fight for leadership. Azrael went toe to toe with Deathstroke in a sword fight. Maul took on Qui-Gon and Obi-wan simultaneously, he's also dropped many of the universe's most dangerous assassins. I've got plenty of H2H skills here, hell, that's my specialty.
Hmm. Well, I've got a man trained in every martial art in the world, another martial artist with enhancements that work just as well in combat as your force, and the skills and agility of Blink, who dodges blasts about as well as Daredevil. There is nothing you can do that I won't have already thought of and planned a countermove for.

Here we have Grail redirecting a chi blast. holds his arm up, arcs the blast out and down into the ground.
http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abilities1a1we.jpg

newjak86
As much as I would like to see Khell fall right now it seems he has the upperhand in this fight.
YOur guy is good melee and has strong long range attacks but it really doesn't help you much in this fight as according to your debating I think he can easily get behind you and end this match almost.
Don't worry though Khell thanks to DS being in Mauker he is immortal so you will never be rid of him.
Voting Khell

Swanky-Tuna
I thought lightsabres cut because they were closed gravity loops. I'm not sure where I heard that though. I imagine it'd be like a mega-sandblaster firing up and around in the shape of a sword.

Nataku8188
If you can move your blast mid shot, how is that not TK? If you can manipulate your shield, how is that not TK? You are using your mental abilities to manipulate something without actually being in contact with me.

If your shield is energy, and you say lightsabers only can't go through it because of the heat, then why not use my normal sword? If that can't pierce your shield, then dare I say that the shield is overpowered? I mean, immune to energy, immune to heat, immune to metals, jeez, what can break through it, big wads of feces?

Batman was trained in every martial art in the world, that didn't help him much at all against Azrael. Explain to me how your enhancements are the equivalent of being able to sense movements as they happen, with the ability to react within the time it takes the movement to actually be done. It's like this;

I (Me personally) am trying to throw a ball into a hoop. You move it as I throw and I miss. Loki is trying to throw the ball into the hoop, he senses your body as it begins to move the hoop (That fraction of a second it takes your muscles to react to your neural impulses) and is already throwing where he has calculated you're moving the hoop. Swish.

The only thing that you can come close to surprising me with would be a teleport, as the instant you are gone I no longer know where you are, yet the System is letting me focus so completely on the force that I sense you behind me the instant you are there. Considering my guy isn't going to just be standing around as you move, I'll definitly be in an awkward position for you already, and it only takes a fraction of a second to rearrange myself.

Your guy dodges as well as Daredevil? Dachande puts Daredevil to shame. Going toe to toe with a pack of aliens would put DD down in seconds, the fact that they swarm, all attacking with claws and tail, even four aliens is 12 limbs you have to worry about. Nevermind the fact that now he has the Force System to boost his capabilities.

DigiMark007
If Khell is using mental abilities to manipulate objects remotely, it can't be allowed....it's not close to TK, it IS TK.

And any energy blast will do melting and/or concussive/piercing force depending on the type of blow it is. Lightsabers will be able to rend the force-field, though the field would slow them somewhat and possibly take more than one blow to break.

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by Nataku8188
Batman was trained in every martial art in the world, that didn't help him much at all against Azrael.

It helped when Batman beat his ass. smile

And teleportation won't help much, especially in this fight. You'd have to teleport around the meat and stuff.

Remember, this is a giant meat locker.

Scoobless
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I thought lightsabres cut because they were closed gravity loops. I'm not sure where I heard that though. I imagine it'd be like a mega-sandblaster firing up and around in the shape of a sword.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber1.htm

long pig
Khell, I think I need to know what you are classifying "Chi" as before I can vote.

Is Chi magic, or bio-electricity of some sort?

Scoobless
Chi is Chi.... it's spiritual... not magic, but not bio-electric.... life force kinda stuff

(Electro can't control it)

stick out tongue

EsteemedLeader
Chi is soul-power...so magic.

long pig
What is lifeforce, then?

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by long pig
What is lifeforce, then?

Chi is supposedly the spirit inside you, your soul...

long pig
I just need to know what Khell considers it, before I can vote.

EsteemedLeader
That doesn't matter, since it doesn't change the fact that it's soul power...

long pig
He could argue it as something else, otherwise it's magic. And basically can't be used for anything that isn't passive. Therefore I couldn't vote for him.

Scoobless
Chi is life-force... everyone is capable of developing it... not magic and not standard bodily electrical energy

it's special option number 3

long pig
Is it explainable via science?

Scoobless
Originally posted by long pig
Is it explainable via science?

i doubt it.... if it was Doom would be using it all the time..... it's more of a focus/training thing.... like Iron Fist, he doesn't use magic but he's big into Chi

most real life martial arts experts talk about focusing their Chi (not those fifteen year old black belts.... i mean real experts who've studied their whole... long...lives)

long pig
Hmmm.....

EsteemedLeader
I think special option number three pretty much describes it.

And the Force would be special option number four.

Scoobless
well i'm no Chi expert... but in comics it seems semi-mystical

DrDoom101
can i vote?

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by DrDoom101
can i vote?

Did you read everything thus far?

DrDoom101
i havent concluded my decision yet, but im just wondering if i can vote since i just registered in september

DigiMark007
Wow, Chi madness. Yeah, Chi's fine...it was a central part of a few characters and nobody complained then. And it might be vague, but magic it ain't. The only thing I limited in this fight so far was Khell remotely manipulating objects or actions, a direct form of TK (not sure if he tried this, but Nat mentioned something along these lines). The Chi-focusing and whatever benefits it might bring is fine.

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by DrDoom101
i havent concluded my decision yet, but im just wondering if i can vote since i just registered in september

No.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by DrDoom101
i havent concluded my decision yet, but im just wondering if i can vote since i just registered in september

That's a negatory then. My apologies, but the last date for voter eligibility was July 31. I realize you're interested and you're not one of the "I registered today and feel like voting for no good reason" people, but breaking the rules at this point wouldn't be fair to the participants.

But feel free to make (brief) comments on the match as you see it.

Nataku8188
Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
It helped when Batman beat his ass. smile

And teleportation won't help much, especially in this fight. You'd have to teleport around the meat and stuff.

Remember, this is a giant meat locker.

Show me where batman beat his ass.

LOTDK 63? Where batman ran away and tricked a crazed azrael? That was a hell of a beating.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Nataku8188
If you can move your blast mid shot, how is that not TK? If you can manipulate your shield, how is that not TK? You are using your mental abilities to manipulate something without actually being in contact with me.
I'm sorry, how IS it TK? It's energy manipulation. Chi was approved by Digi, my guy just happens to be able to do more with his than, say, Iron Fist. And, I'm not manipulationg you, I'm only manipulating my own energy, in the form of a shield and blades from the shield and blasts of destructive energy

Originally posted by Nataku8188
If your shield is energy, and you say lightsabers only can't go through it because of the heat, then why not use my normal sword? If that can't pierce your shield, then dare I say that the shield is overpowered? I mean, immune to energy, immune to heat, immune to metals, jeez, what can break through it, big wads of feces?
It can be broken, but the limit is titanium. You're basically hammering on a big sphere of titanium with that sword. I just don't think you're strong enough, not that my shield is unbreakable.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Explain to me how your enhancements are the equivalent of being able to sense movements as they happen, with the ability to react within the time it takes the movement to actually be done. It's like this;

I (Me personally) am trying to throw a ball into a hoop. You move it as I throw and I miss. Loki is trying to throw the ball into the hoop, he senses your body as it begins to move the hoop (That fraction of a second it takes your muscles to react to your neural impulses) and is already throwing where he has calculated you're moving the hoop. Swish.
Okay. I have a computer in my head that can plot out every conceivable angle you could shoot from. It's tactical engine maps out at least one countermove to every possible move you can physically make. My sensors check your body, just to make sure you're average or above average or enhanced human in strength. Once you start moving, you elimiate options, until you've narrowed it down to only a few options.

Now, the second you move, I move with you. My nervous system has been enhanced so that my reaction time is far far FAR above normal human, and my bones and ligaments are all strengthened to cope with the strain of moving and changing direction int he blink of an eye.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
The only thing that you can come close to surprising me with would be a teleport, as the instant you are gone I no longer know where you are, yet the System is letting me focus so completely on the force that I sense you behind me the instant you are there. Considering my guy isn't going to just be standing around as you move, I'll definitly be in an awkward position for you already, and it only takes a fraction of a second to rearrange myself.
Teleporting is a last ditch thing in this fight. I won't be hopping all over like that time. And, the Force isn't much good when you see ten or so big nasty chi spikes coming at you before you can dodge.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Your guy dodges as well as Daredevil? Dachande puts Daredevil to shame. Going toe to toe with a pack of aliens would put DD down in seconds, the fact that they swarm, all attacking with claws and tail, even four aliens is 12 limbs you have to worry about.
No, no. ONE of the people in my amalgam dodges as good as Daredevil. Not the amalgam himself. Midnighter would put DD down in seconds, even if he was only peak human strength.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And any energy blast will do melting and/or concussive/piercing force depending on the type of blow it is. Lightsabers will be able to rend the force-field, though the field would slow them somewhat and possibly take more than one blow to break.
Actually, the piercing effect in, say, lasers comes from heat. Light has almost no kinetic impact, and you can't melt through an energy field. Same with plasma. Plasma does it's damage because it heats inorganic things tot he point of fracture almost instantly and causes steam explosions when it hits flesh. Neither of those is an option with my field. It's the same with a lightsaber unless someone shows me a link that says different.

The one lightsaber link that WAS posted seemed to say they did their damage by melting/burning as well. Now, there will be a physical impact from the lightsaber, but with the heat factor eliminated, it all depends on the strength he can bring to bear. And I say he can't hammer through what is as strong as a titanium sphere on pure strength(he's like... class four or five to my class 30). But, it's for the voters to decide if they agree with me or not.

Nataku8188
Plasma caster DOES have kinetic energy, it's blown off doors of buildings, knocked people back, destroyed vehicles, all depending on the charge.

You manipulating energy mid flight is no different then me using the force to control my lightsaber when it's far away from me.

The System is exactly like what you have, it turns Azrael into a 100% focused machine. He simply reacts to everything with the best possible move he has, add the force and it's like giving a chess player the opponents next move a turn in advance so he can prepare for it.

A big sphere of titanium won't last long at all vs my burner or my plasma caster, nevermind my glaive, which can slice through alien carapace like nothing, the wristblades, which have gone through 10cm of reinforced steel like butter, my sword which has cleft a tree roughly three feet in diameter with no effort.

You still havent responded to me using your shield to move around you, if you use spikes (Which are overt TK) I can use them like handholds for a gymnest and swing around you. You may be stronger than me, but you bring nothing to this fight my guy hasn't faced, and overcome, before.

jinzin
Originally posted by long pig
Is it explainable via science?
the closest things to an explaination reguarding chi are all contingent upon theories... technically there is no known scitentific explaination that's been able to be proven.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Nataku8188
Plasma caster DOES have kinetic energy, it's blown off doors of buildings, knocked people back, destroyed vehicles, all depending on the charge.
Yes, it does carry a minor kinetic impact, but not enough to threaten my shield Plasma does most of it's damage with heat, not impact. And, honestly, out of the three examples you just gave, two of those could easily be explained as being the effects of plasma's massivegreat del of heat. When plasma hits flesh, it creates so much steam, so fast, that it basically explodes. And vehicles run on flammable liquids in rather thin containers.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
You manipulating energy mid flight is no different then me using the force to control my lightsaber when it's far away from me.
Did you look at the scan? The blast was stil coming from his hand, so he was still connected to it. Not the same thing as controlling a lightsaber from a distance at all.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
The System is exactly like what you have, it turns Azrael into a 100% focused machine. He simply reacts to everything with the best possible move he has, add the force and it's like giving a chess player the opponents next move a turn in advance so he can prepare for it.
Yes, except the system require focus. Midnighter can have a chat, play a card game, untangle christmas lights or whatever while allowing his scanners and computer to plot the most efficient way to to eliminate every conceivable threat in the area. Simply put, I can do more than you can.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
A big sphere of titanium won't last long at all vs my burner or my plasma caster, nevermind my glaive, which can slice through alien carapace like nothing, the wristblades, which have gone through 10cm of reinforced steel like butter, my sword which has cleft a tree roughly three feet in diameter with no effort.
"Burner" Even the name implies it's just a heat weapon. Alien carapace? Well, it's tougher than human skin obviously, but its not even bulletproof, so that's not too impressive. The wrist blades aren't long enough to reach me through the shield, and getting your hand too close to that energy just means you're risking getting the flesh melted off of your hand. The sword is nice, but it's not like some alien super-sharp blade. Again, we come back to you aren't strong enough to hammer down a titanium sphere.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
You still havent responded to me using your shield to move around you, if you use spikes (Which are overt TK) I can use them like handholds for a gymnest and swing around you. You may be stronger than me, but you bring nothing to this fight my guy hasn't faced, and overcome, before.
I must not have seen that. First, explain how shaping his shield differently is TELEKINESIS. Second, touching my shiled (or the spikes that sprout from it) would be a baaad idea. See my bio? Where it says his chi energy burns organic matter on contact? Yeah. Good luck fighting when your flesh is disintegrating off your forearm.

Swanky-Tuna
I don't think you can say plasma casters are mostly heat damage then they blow things apart like they do.
Originally posted by Scoobless
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber1.htm
Oh look, I was almost right. I just named the wrong kind of energy.

newjak86
Chi the way he used it in our match isn't against the rules as it is nothing more than Cyclop's blasts. Even using it the way he is now I don't think really violates the tourney as he isn't effecting anything but his own energies. Redirecting the shot changing the way his force field is arranged really isn't doing anything TK just using his own energy to a different angle. The key thing is that remember everything would be toned down to Tourney level those spikes won't be harder than Titanium and those blasts won't be stronger than Cyclop's so he can do all these thing but it doesn't guarantee anything. In fact since it would take increased concentration to maintain these effects it could be argued that they might be weaker than they would be if he wasn't messing with them.

Scoobless
Originally posted by Khellendros
Yes, except the system require focus. Midnighter can have a chat, play a card game, untangle christmas lights or whatever while allowing his scanners and computer to plot the most efficient way to to eliminate every conceivable threat in the area. Simply put, I can do more than you can.

midnighter sucks at unravelling Christmas lights..... roll eyes (sarcastic)

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/4057/midnighterlights12uz.th.jpg
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5310/midnighterlights21ov.th.jpg

big grin

EsteemedLeader
It is TK if Grailnighter controls the chi blasts with his mind. It's Newtons law, although I don't know how acurately it applies to energy.

Dizzle
I don't think it is... I wouldn't call Green Lantern telekinetic. Venom controls his tendrils perfectly well, I don't see why Grail's chi should be a problem. Same with the shield. He isn't moving any outside objects, he's just manipulating the energy.

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by Dizzle
I don't think it is... I wouldn't call Green Lantern telekinetic. Venom controls his tendrils perfectly well, I don't see why Grail's chi should be a problem. Same with the shield. He isn't moving any outside objects, he's just manipulating the energy.

With his mind.

Dizzle
Yeah. How do you think ALL energy projecters operate? Cyclops's blasts are triggered mentally. Venom controls his symbiote mentally. Hell, even Drizzt's darkness globes are mentally conjured. Dazzler's another big one. She probably does more with her energy than Grail does. And she does it all with her.... feet? No, mind, mind... Yeah, that's it.

long pig
By definition, it's T.K.

What more can you argue?

But, what I want to know is how durable is Azreal's suit? What kind of high end titanium is it made of? Is it under the pred armor?

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by long pig
By definition, it's T.K.

What more can you argue?

But, what I want to know is how durable is Azreal's suit? What kind of high end titanium is it made of? Is it under the pred armor?

Yes, it's under the pred armor, and it's roughly the equivalent of titanium.

long pig
What's it made of?

The properties of the metal will have an effect on how it handles the chi attacks.

EsteemedLeader
"The costume Azrael curently wears was designed by Nomoz after his failed first tussel with Batman. Incorporating the advanced Order technology that created the silent hovercraft, the universal solvent, and the Azraels themselves, Nomoz crafted a fireproof and bulletproof fabric that resembles a weave of Kevlar and Nomex materials."

So it's basically Batman's armor with an extra layer of plates.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I don't think you can say plasma casters are mostly heat damage then they blow things apart like they do.
Why not? I even explained why they destroy something. Heating it to the point of violent fracture for inorganic materials and creating steam explosions when hitting living flesh.

Originally posted by Scoobless
midnighter sucks at unravelling Christmas lights..... roll eyes (sarcastic)
Yeah, the tactical engine just wasn't built to handle christmas lights... sad

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
Yes, it's under the pred armor, and it's roughly the equivalent of titanium.
Err, no. The upper limit for armor is titanium. That doesn't mean all armor gets an upgrade to titanium level strength. His kevlarish bodysuit is not nearly as strong as titanium.

Originally posted by long pig
What's it made of?

The properties of the metal will have an effect on how it handles the chi attacks.
There's no metal in Azrael's bodysuit. It's basically suped up Kevlar.

EDIT: As for the chi redirection thing... I still don't get why that counts as TK when he's just moving his own energy around. Maybe Digi needs to come in and rule on it.

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by Khellendros
There's no metal in Azrael's bodysuit. It's basically suped up Kevlar.

Like the Batsuit basically.

Khellendros
Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
Like the Batsuit basically.
I dunno what the batsuit is made of but probably yes.

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by Khellendros
I dunno what the batsuit is made of but probably yes.

Same thing, kevlar and nomex bulletproof/fireproof suit.

DigiMark007
Has anyone voted in this match yet? Only a day left...

EsteemedLeader
This match is so close, trying to figure out who to vote for has been unbearable.

So, by a slim margine, I vote for Nataku.

DigiMark007
Quoted from EsteemedLeader in the discussion thread after a brief explanation...

"So, Grailnighter's chi blasts and shield should be allowed, but changing it's course or making energy spikes on his shield should not."

...if there's still any confusion, hopefully this clears it up. Thanks EL

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Has anyone voted in this match yet? Only a day left...
Four people counting Esteemed Leader.

long pig
I'll go ahead and vote Nataku.

Although Khell's movement is greater, his firepower/damage soak is no where near that of Nat's.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Quoted from EsteemedLeader in the discussion thread after a brief explanation...

"So, Grailnighter's chi blasts and shield should be allowed, but changing it's course or making energy spikes on his shield should not."

...if there's still any confusion, hopefully this clears it up. Thanks EL

Just wanted to make sure it made it to this page...

Anyway, good to know we have some votes. SF and Esteemed are the only ones I saw.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Quoted from EsteemedLeader in the discussion thread after a brief explanation...

"So, Grailnighter's chi blasts and shield should be allowed, but changing it's course or making energy spikes on his shield should not."

...if there's still any confusion, hopefully this clears it up. Thanks EL
So, Esteemed Leader is making the rules now?

Khellendros
Originally posted by long pig
Although Khell's movement is greater, his firepower/damage soak is no where near that of Nat's.
How do you figure that? I have full body armor that is right at the limit for tourney, a force field that is the same, all layered over Midnighter who has enhanced durability as well. His Pred armor doesn't cover his whole body, and that kevlar isn't going to stand up to the punishment I can dish out.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Khellendros
So, Esteemed Leader is making the rules now?

No, but he summarized the debate nicely and put it in terms that beared repeating. My no TK ruling earlier kinda said this, but didn't spell it out too clearly.

And Chi is perfectly acceptable. There's been a bunch of talk about it as possible magic-or-science, but it's entirely allowed.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, but he summarized the debate nicely and put it in terms that beared repeating. My no TK ruling earlier kinda said this, but didn't spell it out too clearly.

And Chi is perfectly acceptable. There's been a bunch of talk about it as possible magic-or-science, but it's entirely allowed.
So then everything I've done here has been within the rules? Cause that's not what EL said.

DigiMark007
Confused now...So, Remotely forming spikes out of the shield and altering their trajectories = not allowed. Pretty much everything else = allowed (unless it's dealt with in the character notes). That would include the chi blasts. KVD has a chi-guy too (Ryu) and he was fine too.

EsteemedLeader
Wow, it's nice to know that I have even a little influence.happy

DigiMark007
Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
Wow, it's nice to know that I have even a little influence.happy

Hehe...yes and no. You just put the ruling into practical and clear terms. Thanks though. I'll stop posting in here now. We've taken up the majority of a page, and it should be for battle and votes.

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hehe...yes and no. You just put the ruling into practical and clear terms. Thanks though. I'll stop posting in here now. We've taken up the majority of a page, and it should be for battle and votes.

Little is still better than none.

I have more posts in here than anyone else...

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Confused now...So, Remotely forming spikes out of the shield and altering their trajectories = not allowed. Pretty much everything else = allowed (unless it's dealt with in the character notes). That would include the chi blasts. KVD has a chi-guy too (Ryu) and he was fine too.
I never said anything about altering their trajectories, because they stay attached to the shield he'ss urrounded himself with. I was talking about altering the trajectory of a chi blast before I've fully fired it off.

Here. The shield spikes:
http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/1070/shieldshaping10bi.jpg
http://img417.imageshack.us/img417/657/shieldshaping20he.jpg
See, they never leave the shield. My point is that Grail could form them on any surface of the shield, not just on the bottom, turning it into an offensive as well as defensive option. Basically, he gets close, suddenly he's skewered on spikes growing out of my shield.

Now, the redirection. He said he could redirect my blasts. I amde two counters: one, the blasts are too large to be fully blocked by the thin lightsaber; two, Grail can change the chi stream before it hits it's target, meaning he could move it around the blade.
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3894/abilities1a1we.jpg
Note that the chi blast is still coming from his hand, which means he still holds a connection to it.

Those two things are what people are claiming are TK and against the rules.

DigiMark007
K now, thanks for that.

Chi blasts from the hands are be fine. That's just basic energy projection, similar to lots of other energy users in the tourney. Remotely turning the shield into offensive spikes at will, not allowed. It's still remote which puts it in the realm of TK.

long pig
Are we going by the definition of TK or just our own ideas of it?

DigiMark007
The definition I'm using is basically 'remote control over an external force' Not sure if that fits some definition, but it sure seems like TK to me.

long pig

EsteemedLeader
I see it this way:

If Loki(Hypno-Picard) isn't allowed to do it with the Force, neither is Grailnighter allowed to do it with chi.

long pig
If the force was something physical or explainable, then I'd have no problem with him using it to move things.
Same with Chi.

But, otherwise it's something mystical that can't be countered by anyone.

OmegaTed
Voting for nataku, his guy seems to have a more assured way of putting him down.

MuffinmanMike
i vote for nataku

beter support b

K Von Doom
Khell gets my vote

Khellendros
Okay then. I've still got class 30 strength, better armor, a shield that will burn his flesh off on contact, enhancements that work even better than his Force sense because I don't ahve to focus just on them, teleportation, reaction time that lets me dodge lasers at point blank range and the ability to redirect any energy weapon he fires at me. Oh, and chi blasts too large to be deflected with a lightsaber.

Laminator_X
I vote for Grailknighter.

DrDoom101
Does Predator have his invisibilty?

DigiMark007
Match Closed.

Khell wins. The votes count 5-4 in Khell's favor, but OmegaTed is a sock of another person who voted, so technically it's 5-3.

Congrats to both on a match well-fought.

Khellendros will fight Longpig in the semis.

Dizzle
Score? I THINK it's 4-3 Khell with Lam's vote, but I'm not real sure.

Khellendros
O_O Holy crap I won. I seriously didn't even get on this morning, assuming I was gonna lose.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.