Space Marines attack Coruscant

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Gryn Jabar
Let's say that the Ultramarines chapter launches a sudden attack on Coruscant immediately prior to the Seperatist attack, which never occurs. How do the space Marines fare? Absolute curbstomp? Chapter destuction?

Gryn Jabar
Sorry, should have made the objective clearer: Their objective is to grab palpatine, then the hell out of dodge.

SnakeEyes
I'd say the Space Marines actually pull it off. Tough battle, but Space Marines would be up to it.

Gryn Jabar
IMO they'd stomp everyone on the ground, but could they manage to hold off the Republic fleet?

Darth_Glentract
I don't think they could. Without GG and his droids, Palpatine would bever have been captured.

Plus, unless Palpatine controlled the Space Marines too, he isn't going to let himself be captured.

Gryn Jabar
Well, obviously a full SM chapter> GG and co.

Lord Simus
Space Marines.

Boris
Space Marines? blink

Darth_Glentract
Thing is, Palpatine isn't going to let these guys take him. He would just run to the Clones and Jedi to protect him, which he easily could.

Veneficus
Goddamn popups!!!

Darth_Glentract
That ab one is so annoying. "Ouch". Gosh, listening to music loud and then hearing, "OUCH!!!!" is annoying.

Deus Ex
Jedi protectors and hardened clone troopers would win the day.

IKC
That or, if the Separatists also don't exist, Palpatine unleashes the Dark Side on his would-be captors. That'd be a sight to see.

Gryn Jabar
Ach, shoulda made this clearer:
Space Marines get to utilize the warp. BTW, to whoever doesn't know them this is one of them.

Deus Ex
Oh snap... those marines?

Gryn Jabar
Yep big grin. NOW how does the fight go about?

Deus Ex
With mass ownage. Sids loses this one.

Admiral Akbar
lol orbital bombardment should beat the shit of coruscant

Darth Traya
Space Marines win. They would kick the crap out of the clones and then butcher the Jedi, lightsabres or not.

overlord
Is this the warhammer spacemarines???
What the smell is going on???

Deus Ex
Chaos. Coruscant becomes OMFG where'd it go-uscant.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Space Marines win. They would kick the crap out of the clones and then butcher the Jedi, lightsabres or not.

Butcher the Jedi?

HAHAHAHAHA! I see Warhammer fanboyism is still well and good!

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Butcher the Jedi?

HAHAHAHAHA! I see Warhammer fanboyism is still well and good!

Oh, I'm not saying that the Jedi would have a chance to win, but the Space Marines would blast their faces in with an entire Chapter's worth of firepower.

Ushgarak
A Chapter is 1000 men, that's bugger all. Jedi have faced way worse, and with the Clones at their command also?

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Ushgarak
A Chapter is 1000 men, that's bugger all. Jedi have faced way worse, and with the Clones at their command also?

Plus, you have to remember that this is a kidnap mission. They would not engage the Jedi and clones for long.

Ushgarak
Why not? Grievous could only launch his because a multi-million strong army was there drawing forces away. What's a Chapter going to do? Pray? That's all they're good for...

You could bring EVERY chapter and I doubt they would do it.

Deus Ex
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Butcher the Jedi?

HAHAHAHAHA! I see Warhammer fanboyism is still well and good!

Well, who can fight with this kind of logic?

Ushgarak
No worse than the logic you were using. At least establish your cause first, because it's laughable- which is why I laughed.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No worse than the logic you were using. At least establish your cause first, because it's laughable- which is why I laughed.

Or perhaps you laughed because in your brain, your brain was laughing, but then it stopped? Or perhaps you just laughed because you wanted to?

overlord
So it is warhammer, great job telling me guys! not..

Anyway, guess wich warhammers I have... THE ORKS!!
Didn't expect that, huh?

Deus Ex
Not really.

And in any case, Ush, I'm not about to go into lengthy details on why the Space Marines would win, other than what I've heard about their leader (Who could fek Coruscant up one side and down the other).

I basically assumed they were comparable enough to be his guards. Sue me.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Not really.

And in any case, Ush, I'm not about to go into lengthy details on why the Space Marines would win, other than what I've heard about their leader (Who could fek Coruscant up one side and down the other).

I basically assumed they were comparable enough to be his guards. Sue me.

The Emperor could feasibly, quite easily kill Ragnos. And then destroy Coruscant.

Deus Ex
That I know.

Ushgarak
What, the Space Marines are bringing the Emperor now, are they? Cripple that he is... Going to wheel the life support machine down the palace halls?

Oh my, this has to be the silliest one ever! The Warhammer Emperor is powerless to stop even local rebellions on small worlds without sending in several million Imperial Guard. He'd do bugger all to Coruscant; besides which, this question is purely about the Marines.

They are not equipped OR designed to fight planetary wars, which is what they would need to do, because that is what Griveous did. By the laws of the scenario presented, they have not a hope in hell.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Ushgarak
What, the Space Marines are bringing the Emperor now, are they? Cripple that he is... Going to wheel the life support machine down the palace halls?

Oh my, this has to be the silliest one ever! The Warhammer Emperor is powerless to stop even local rebellions on small worlds without sending in several million Imperial Guard. He'd do bugger all to Coruscant; besides which, this question is purely about the Marines.

They are not equipped OR designed to fight planetary wars, which is what they would need to do, because that is what Griveous did. By the laws of the scenario presented, they have not a hope in hell.

Of course, he would then psychically obliterate the planet.

Ushgarak
(repeats what I said above about needing the Imperial Guard)

He can't do that. Or anything close.

Gryn Jabar
So you think 1000 men including probably an Alpha level psyker is completely inadequate to kidnap someone who isn't expecting them in a surprise raid?

Darth_Glentract
Well, is that guys sword lightsaber resistant?

Deus Ex
I think it's the size of a jedi body but that could just be the angle.

Darth_Glentract
I think its the angle. lol. Can someone post a link with info on these guys?

Gryn Jabar
The Emperor's sword doesn't need to be LS resistant. BTW, I would imagine that their armor, or at least their faith (yes, it IS manifested) would manage to protect them. The trouble is, could the jedi close distance quickly enough? Considering the amount of firepower (.50 cal used as assualt rifle ammo) the SM's have at their disposal, can the jedi manage to close the distance to use their force powers in a direct manner?

Deus Ex
Didn't the lightsaber have difficulty dealing with slugs in Shatterpoint?

Darth_Glentract
That was because Mace's saber was drained of energy by Geptun.

...Link guys?

Deus Ex
I thought so.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
So you think 1000 men including probably an Alpha level psyker is completely inadequate to kidnap someone who isn't expecting them in a surprise raid?

They lose all surprise when they have to make an orbital insertion onto a planet at war! And sod the psyker, they aren't THAT good.

One chapter is a feeble strategic force.

And yes, of course Jedi can close quickly enough; we see them close to melee range all the time- and against FAR more than a Chapter's worth of firepower in AOTC.

Gryn Jabar
One Alpha level psysker is capable of ****ing over an entire planet. The more powerful versions are manifested in the warp, and can distort the fabric of space-time.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Ushgarak
They lose all surprise when they have to make an orbital insertion onto a planet at war! And sod the psyker, they aren't THAT good.

One chapter is a feeble strategic force.

And yes, of course Jedi can close quickly enough; we see them close to melee range all the time- and against FAR more than a Chapter's worth of firepower in AOTC.

"Feeble strategic source."

What the hell?

Gryn Jabar
Considering one chapter managed to kill roughly 1 billion Tyranids that had could likley have completely **** over the Old Republic, I sincerely doubt you have any idea what the hell your talking about.

overlord
Haha. Our moderator is a fanboy who will place his favorite subject over all, haha.
stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue
stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Considering one chapter managed to kill roughly 1 billion Tyranids that had could likley have completely **** over the Old Republic, I sincerely doubt you have any idea what the hell your talking about.

Agreed, except that it was trillions, if you count the entire of Hive Fleet Leviathan.

Deus Ex
Originally posted by overlord
Haha. Our moderator is a fanboy who will place his favorite subject over all, haha.
stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue
stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue

lmao

Bye, Overlord!

overlord
Maybe the whole basic idea of power in those two sci-fi's are non comparible, maybe warhammer represents outragiously more firepower and such than Star Wars, I don't understand Ushgarak even getting worked up for this.

Darth Traya
Yep, you can't compare the two worlds. The Empire and Imperium are slightly similar, but quite different from each other. Not to mention that the IoM could obliterate the entire SW Galaxy with ease.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Considering one chapter managed to kill roughly 1 billion Tyranids that had could likley have completely **** over the Old Republic, I sincerely doubt you have any idea what the hell your talking about.

And a few Rebels destroyed the Death Star. That was simply because the Tyrannids had a vulnerbaility; it wasn't done in an open field battle.

Marines ARE a feeble strategic resource. They are too small. Marines are a tactical force. The Imperial Guard are for the strategy.

We are talking about wars on the scales of billions here. Chapters are in thousands. It doesn't work. They are a small special forces unit. The army, as I say, is the Guard. I highly recommend you get some basic idea of how these things work before you throw out such silly comments.

Overlord isn't right either; in fact, these worlds are far more comparable than, say Wars and Trek, and they both share the same scale of size and firepower. Traya is totally wrong; there is no reason to think the 40K universe involves stronger fdighters by default.

I am in fact a fan of both genres. My comment on the Marines isn't because I don't like Warhammer. But expecting them to perofrm ther work of field armies is like expecting the Jedi to fights wars single handed as well- it doesn't work, there aren't enough, no matter how good they are (and you have greatly over-estimated hopw good Marines are; in an actual, defined, points-based system, they are only worth about theee or four Guardsmen each, whereas a Jedi is clearly worth dozens of foot soldiers).

And as Grievous required a full military invasion to perform his kidnap... then no, the Marines couldn't do it.

Nerdy as this all is, for better or worse this forum is here and works by logical rules. Now, if you has postulated that the Imperial Guard invade Coruscant and THEN a Marine chapter does the snatch, as Grievous did, whilst the Jedi and their armies are distracted... then you have a much better case.

jammasterjo
well done ush that huge speech was all for notin, oops wat r u gona do ban me id like to see u try you great big oath

Deus Ex
Oath? Wtf?

Ushgarak
Gosh, isn't intelligent comment useful? Well, as you clearly wanted one, you can have an official warning, yup. And if you keep making pointless posts like that, then yes, you will be banned.

jammasterjo
ooh by calling you an oath did i touch a raw nerve, oath oath oathhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh oath oath oathhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hh

jammasterjo
come on oath ban me i dare you

Ushgarak
Gosh, you have no idea how much more that would hurt me if you spelled it right...

Oh no wait... no, it would still be pretty feeble.

Well, you had your warning, so expect a word from the globals soon.

Deus Ex
Pwn3d.

I haven't seen this much action since the August bunch.

Darth Traya
August bunch? I'm from August!

Deus Ex
lmfao!

Oops!

Darth Traya
And what pray, is wrong with the "August bunch"?

Deus Ex
Mass bannings. A lot of socks and morons.

You were an exception. I think there may have been others, but they elude me.

Darth Traya
Yay!

Deus Ex
So now you're in on the "august bunch" joke.

Darth Traya
Oowww!

Deus Ex
lol! I mean you're in the know, dear... not part of the joke!

Darth Traya
Yay!

overlord
I have been eavesdropping. Muhahaha!!!
I will now quickly go tell Boris about this.

Darth Traya
WTF!? What the f**k?

overlord
The August Bunch.. The joke.. The Augu..

Ah, forget it, you guys... Damn.. wallbash

Ushgarak
Well, regardless, our new friend is departed. What a shame.

Back to the topic, I guess! Me still says- Marines on their own, no way.

overlord
Clone troopers suck in my opinion.

Ushgarak
So do Imperial Guard, who are armed with high-powered torches, yet it is actually rules-defined on a system that compares power that a Marine is only worth a few of them.

So an army of them trounces a thousand marines, no trouble.

Expecting the Marines to do your invasion work is like expecting the SAS or Delta Force to invade a country solo. They'd lose. As a special forces aid to a large conventional army they are invaluable. Solo, they are useless.

overlord
They can't infiltrate? That my dear sir is pure speculation, why wouldn't they be able to plan?
But how the hell are you going to kidnap Darth Sidious, that I'd like to know. That guy is constantly electrocuting and jumping around swinging.

Gryn Jabar
Originally posted by Ushgarak
So do Imperial Guard, who are armed with high-powered torches, yet it is actually rules-defined on a system that compares power that a Marine is only worth a few of them.

So an army of them trounces a thousand marines, no trouble.

Expecting the Marines to do your invasion work is like expecting the SAS or Delta Force to invade a country solo. They'd lose. As a special forces aid to a large conventional army they are invaluable. Solo, they are useless.
Read the OP. They ARE NOT invading. They are trying to kindap Sidious. One quick grab and run, no protacted ground war, no massive invasion, just a quick op.

uhnioin
The 1000 Space Marines would DOMINATE Coruscant. And I'm not being a fanboy. The Space Marines each have an automatic, 0.75 depleted URANIUM rifle that explodes once INSIDE the enemy. Jedi are no match for psykers, who have been stated to destroy/scourge planets with ease. I'm sorry that i do not have quotes yet to back this up, but the Space Marines also have armour that causally resists tanks rounds.

“A las-blast felled the armsman beside Semper. The captain grabbed the man as he fell, intending to drag him into the bay, but then found himself staring into the excavated crater of the man’s skull, where the las-shot had blown half his head away.”
Rogue Trader compendium, page 145:
(Space Marines can tank 10 guys autofiring at him for a couple minutes before his armour starts glowing)

More so, we would drop our tanks in from atmospheric level. They will survive reentry. The ships that we bring have main cannons a man could STAND UP in. I've see turbolasers, and they're no where close to being impressive. (PS: Volcano cannon fires in the petatons)

As for capturing Palaptine, it would be difficult to not have to old man kill himself, but Space Marines have resisted lightning strikes in one of the books. "Vortex of Doom - In a moment of pure desperation, the Librarian unleashes the full force of his psychic talents. With an utter disregard for reality, the Librarian opens up a flickering vortex in the fabric of space-time. The vortex is 2 metres in diameter and may be placed anywhere within range of the psyker. Once created, however, the Librarian has no more control over it. Having an open rift to the Warp is dangerous to the souls of anyone present. The Librarian making use of it can easily lose control of the Warp vortex the first time any creature comes within 10 metres of it, unwittingly unleashing it on friend and enemy alike until it has run its devastating course" (Psyker power, from the Space Marine Wiki)

I apologize once again for lack of textual evidence, but these are true. Search Factpile Warhammer 40k vs Star Wars is you must know. Another apology for being really angry with the fact that it seems like you completely discounted the Space Marine's awesomeness.

Darth _Sadow1
Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Yep big grin. NOW how does the fight go about?
Why would you make this thread if you already know the answer....

NemeBro
So apparently the thread creator is including the God-Emperor of Mankind in his prime on the side of the Ultramarines.

Haha.

Tzeentch._
Yeah, thought that was pretty lulzy.

Anyway, I would say that "average" Jedi would defeat an "average" Space Marine without much difficulty. Considering the Ultramarines would be outnumbered 2 or 3 to one, I'd say they'd end up losing.

Pappa Smurf and Cato Sicarius would wreck untold amounts of Jedi though.

NemeBro
The "average" Jedi is killed by Jango Fett.

No.

Tzeentch._
The "average" Space Marine is killed by Guardsmen.

So **** you. Dickface.

NemeBro
The average guardsman is at least on par with Jedi of Obi-Wan's caliber.

Tzeentch._
The average Jedi can defeat the Emperor pre-Horus asswhooping.

NemeBro
Sidious, Vitiate, Nihilus, Luke, Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Vader, and Chewbacca working together would have to put forth a mighty effort to beat an Imperial Conscript, if the Conscript was naked and just got done ****ing your mother (A mighty feat for anyone, I know).

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sidious, Vitiate, Nihilus, Luke, Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Vader, and Chewbacca working together would have to put forth a mighty effort to beat an Imperial Conscript, if the Conscript was naked and just got done ****ing your mother (A mighty feat for anyone, I know). Is that because his mother is so sexy that even before they get to the f*cking, you'd just premature ejaculate all over her? Trust me, I've been there.

Tzeentch._
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sidious, Vitiate, Nihilus, Luke, Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Vader, and Chewbacca working together would have to put forth a mighty effort to beat an Imperial Conscript, if the Conscript was naked and just got done ****ing your mother (A mighty feat for anyone, I know). AotC Anakin would kill Magnus the Red in a fight.

uhnioin
Alright. So the main difficulty in this is the Space Marine vs. Jedi. While I must condede that a lightsaber may penetrate the armour of a Space Marine with a stab, a slash would most likely glance off. Their armour is mostly made of ceramite, which conducts virtually no heat. The lightsaber cannot deflect bolter rounds, and most likely is that the molten slag of the bolter round would continue through the lightsaber and kill the Jedi. The chances of a Jedi killing a Space Marine with a stab (to even the face) without getting punched to death are extremely rare.

Space Marines have a second heart, instant blood clotting, acidic spit (that has melted through solid steel doors with time), can gain memories and knowledge by eating an enemy's flesh, can sleep appr. 4 hours a day (or sleep specific parts of the brain at a time) and many other insanely powerful feats. But most importantly, their reflexes are superhuman, even with armour. The Black Carapiece helps immensly in allowing them to interface and communicate directly with their armour. While they have only basic protection against the Warp/force, a force choke would take about 20 minutes to actually kill them as they can survive for long periods of time in the vacumn of space.

--------------------------

Most importantly, Clone Troopers caught the Jedi Temple off guard and slaughtered most of them. What's stopping the Space Marines in doing the same job, but even faster? And even so, I haven't STARTED on tanks, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Psykers (Disable machinery on the Republic side) and worse.

uhnioin
As for Magnus the Red vs AOTC Anakin, Magnus the Red would win, stomp style. First, he is a PRIMARCH. I'd say an Assault Terminator could take on Anakin.

Magnus the Red is a psyker. So if you read the psyker power on one of the last posts, you would know that psyker vs force user, Magnus would stomp.

He is a DAEMON PRINCE. By that, he is immortal. You kill him, he "respawns" in the Warp. I'd say Magnus would rape Darth Tyrannus, who beat up both Obiwan and Anakin.

Tzeentch._
Flamers kill Space Marines and melt their power armor.

Meltaguns and plasma guns tear right through even Terminator armor like it's wet paper. I'm not convinced that a lightsaber would bounce off of power armor.

edit-

The clones outnumbered the Jedi a dozen to one, and were lead by Anakin Skywalker. As well, the clones, and Anakin, were considered allies right up until the moment they started slaughtering everyone. The Ultramarines won't have that advantage.

Double edit- I know Magnus would beat up the majority of Star Wars characters (though he would lose to Luke). Nemebro and I are gay lovers irl, and we frequently make outlandish claims in an attempt to antagonize one another.

uhnioin
See, but the thing you don't understand is the SCALE of the universes. Plasma in Star Wars (blasters) don't seem to do much. Space Marine plasma pistols have been quoted to detonate with the heat of a SMALL SUN. Lightsabers have been known to glance of tank armour in Star Wars. That seems relatively close to Space Marine amour.

Flamers in 40k are based on promethium, something like napalm that sticks to a person. And even so, clones would have their plastic armour melted right off by it, and jedi would too. So even if Space Marines fall to their own weapons, the Star Wars flamethrowers wouldn't be effective enough to stop a Space Marine. Before the Space Marine puts a bolt in the clone.


"The Meltagun is a short-ranged weapon that produces an intense, energetic beam of heat energy in the tens of thousands of degrees Centigrade." (Quote on meltaguns from 40k. So don't attack me on the weakness of Space Marine armour)



As for the element of surprise, the Space Marines come from the Warp slightly beyond the planet's atmosphere. Giving the Jedi and clones about 10 minutes because of the drop pods that carry tactical marines, and teleportation from Terminators.

Next thing. A primarch's psyker powers are beyond any homan other than the Emperor. Magnus was specifally a PSYKER, not as much a warrior. He would look at Luke and channel the God of Change's power into Luke, and he would pop.

Tzeentch._
I've read every Gaunt's Ghost novel, all of the Eisenhorn novels, the Ravenor novels, the first 8 Horus Heresy novels, and all the Night Lords books.

There is nothing in WH40K lore that implies that the heat from a flamer or a plasma gun is superior to that of a lightsaber.

uhnioin
I didn't say that the heat would be greater, but you have to consider: ten of thousand of degrees Centigrade. That's more than enough. And the lightsaber is a melee weapon, it would be like comparing it to a power sword. But the issue is that power weapons: "capable of disrupting the molecular bonds of matter when it strikes" which is better than a lightsaber because it takes more time to cut open a steel door.

Moreover, why the hell do we even need to hit the Jedi Temple? Just raid the Chancellor's office and drag him out. The jump packs on the assault marines and teleportation on psykers/terminators should do quite nicely.

Tzeentch._
Again, nothing implies that a lightsaber wouldn't tear through power armor like steel butter. Providing a quote saying that a meltagun is 10,000 centigrade does not prove that power armor can resist a lightsaber.

uhnioin
Oh that. While Power armour does resist most forms of heat. And:

"Power Armour is an advanced form of powered combat armour, worn primarily by the Space Marines and the Chaos Space Marines. It is a completely enclosed suit of combat armour composed of shaped Adamantium and Plasteel plates, encased in a Ceramite ablative layer. Each suit possesses a full suite of life-support functions for operation in hostile environments, an automated medicae system to provide some level of first aid to a wounded wearer and a highly advanced and fully integrated tactical targeting and threat analysis system known as Auto-senses."

"Power Armour is fully sealed, isolating the wearer from the outside environment and protecting him from chemical and/or biological weapons and toxic atmospheres."


Now you wonder about the adamantium plates. They may prove to be a nuiscance. And even though a lightsaber may pierce power armour, nothing proves that a squad of 10 marines covering each other back to back would let Jedi even come close enough to stab/slash.

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