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How come she didn't come back to Tatooine and buy back Anakins mother? Afterall if it wasn't for Shimi they would of rotted!

With all that money and power Queen Amidala had, Shimi could of very easily been freed!! How come no one ever came back for her?
It's great that she EVENTUALLY got sold and freed, but come on, she should of been freed right away!!

Padme is a cheap and stingy, that explains why on earth she would ever marry Anakin!!!

It's not the business of people like Padme to go around personally righting all the wrongs of the Galaxy! She was a bloody head of state! Imagine George Bush going and buying a slave from somewhere! Far more effective for her to try and improve the Republic so that slavery will be stamped out.

Furthermore, Watto would had to have been willing to sell, which would have required a VERY high price, and it would have been completely illegal for Padme to involve herself in the slave trade!

And Watto can't accept her credits.

So Padme's too good to get involed with slaves!

I still think she's a ***** for not helping out poor Shimi! There was no excuse!
I didn't say Padme should go around fighting the wrongs of the galaxy, the woman helped her out, and Padme just totally dissed her!!
I'm sure Watto could of very easily been persuaded to sell, and money for little Ms. Padme with ther shiny ship and fancy chlothes would of been no problem!

She pampered R2D2 more than poor Shimi!

Watching that poor woman die in that nasty tent has broken me big ole heart!

Tex, you're a *****.

she couldn't buy SHMI for several reasons.

listen up

padme knew she was anakin's mother obviously..under the JEDI code a jedi apprentice must sever connections with family etc..so knowing this they could not take SHMI with Anakin..coz it will impede his training with QUI GON. From very small, jedi do not have connections with family etc..

Simple as that.

didnt need to bring her to where anakin is. She could have bought her free for the sake of friendship, after all Shmi gave them shelter on Tatooine. Padme could have brouhgt Shmi to Naboo

like said: pretty illegal, then she won't be senator anymore and that way you can be sure nothing would have been done 'bout slavery

Pernilla August (Shmi) is a swede. Who cares about them???

We do. because she's in SW.

Padme is a saint

what??? you don't think so??

Indeed, trying to ascribe such negative actions to her is a waste of time. She is NOT a *****, and I am sure she would put things right if she could.

It's still wrong that Shimi was left on that desert dump!!!

That's why Padme is a *****, and I also think she's very stupid for not reporting Anakins murderous actions to the Jedi counsel and marrying him!
She is a person of very low moral character!
She has to be, to marry that swine Anakin!!

Poor Shimi!!!

warmongers all Texans are.

Not that there is any such thing as the Jedi Counsel...

your continuous attempts at correcting that mistake seem to have failed, ush

But he'll keep trying. Thats why I wuv Ush.

Well, it wouldn't matter so much if it wasn't for that weird confusion with Yoda's lines!

I'm sure the vast majority took it as council, not counsel.

Well then Mr. Unsymapthetic to poor Shimi, a.k.a Ush, she should of told Yoda!

That's a cumbersome nickname. She should have told Yoda what?

*waiting for Tex's stupid response*

That Anakin's a butcher who should be stripped of his Padawan status!

Poor Shimi, thank the maker she died! If she knew that Anakin turned into a butcher and went off to marry that stingy Padme, she's probably have a heart attack and die anyways!!

Oh, this is too much trauma for me!!

Stupid enough for you, Gundy?

Quite. I'll go take some aspirin now.

I bet poor Shimi couldn't get any Asprin on that sesert dump! Slaving away all day while little Ms. Padme sat on her throne and fed her face !

Tex, get over it. If Shmi hadn't died, Anikin's anger would not have been fueled, and he might not have become Darth Vader. The fate of the galaxy depended upon Shmi's death!

Err ... I'm quite in agreement with Texas on this ... if it were not for her son's help, and for her AGREEING to let her son help them out, Padme and the rest of the gang would have been cod-swallop. The least Padme could have done was to have freed Shmi and the cost would have been nothing for her to bear. No one is saying she has to take it upon herself to free all the slaves in the galaxy ... this is not the same thing ... here it is a question of buying the freedom of a woman who has a very special kind of son, who rendered invaluable service and who has now been admitted to the jedi council as a special case. Seeing her die the way she did broke my heart too, especially because it could and should have been avoided. Tex is right man ... R2-D2 was looked after better by Padme than Shmi. Its the least she could have done for Shmi ... and the argument that she would be involved in slave trade if she did is ridiculous !! Stupid red tape bueurocracy of that asinine sort happens in India ... not Corsuscant and Naboo. In any case, what is meant is, that Padme should have payed Watto what he wanted and freed Shmi completely ... NOT keeping her as a slave herself after that ( which would be precious ! ) ... so that slave trade argument does not work.

And furthermore I also agree with him on the point that Padme had a duty to inform the Jedi Council of Anakin's slaughter of the Tuskans and his violent fit of temper afterwards ( " I hate them !!! all of them !!! " ). That would have at least made them aware that all was not well with their prized student. Because all of them, with the exception of Obi Wan, are under the impression that Anakin is fine, and great and dandy, and sooner or later he's going to fulfill the prophecy, destroy the sith, bring balance and it will be hunky dory all over again ... they are quite blissfully unaware of the emotional cracks in his psyche, and how dangerous that is because it is the gateway to Anakin's conversion to the darkside.

And that is a mistake that's gonna cost them dearly, because soon almost all of them will be dead, killed by Anakin ... what's left of them after geonosis that is.

Padme shoulda told them ... and Anakin's fall might have been avoided, because they would have at least KNOWN, that Anakin's not all there mentally and attitude wise, and that as such, he is hightly susceptible and vulnerable to the darkside.

But Harmax - Yoda knew "young Skywalker was in terrible pain" during the slaughter. He has had his misgivings about Anakin from the moment Qui Gon brought him before the council. Even Mace was skeptical about Anakin being trained as a padawan.

The thing is ... this is actually a fault in the story line ... because character-wise speaking, all the above is exactly what the character of Padme Amidala would have done ... i.e. freed Shimi at whatever price ... informed the council about Anakin etc. Because the way the character of Padme has been built up, she is a person with a very high sense of duty ... as for instance, the hot exchange between Obi Wan and Anakin when they are chasing Count Dooku and Padme falls out of the ship ... when Anakin insists on stopping the ship and going back for her, Obi Wan asks him that if Padme was in Anakin's place, what would she do, and Anakin replies that she would do her duty ... i.e ... for all her love for Anakin, Padme wouldn't have stopped to go back for him, if it was he who had fallen out of the ship ... she would have proceeded with Obi Wan to try and catch and defeat Dooku.


Now such a character, it stands to reason,would definitely inform the Jedi Council about Anakin's Tusken slaughter and his violent temper. Such a character, also, would definitely do her best to obtain freedom for Shmi Skywalker.

That she doesnt, is a fault, a loose end, an inconsistency .... in the story line.

And Gundark ... yes both Mace and Yoda were opposed to accepting Skywalker in the beginning. But by the time period of AOTC, except for Obi Wan, no one else is aware of or realizes the problems that exist with Anakin ... and Mace even disregards Obi Wan's bringing to his notice these problems ... they all think : Well he's exceptional, gifted, great, he's the chosen one, and by prophecy, he will destroy the sith and bring balance.

The emotional cracks and instability and arrogance, temper etc...
they are either unaware of it or they choose to take it very lightly indeed ...

But they really didn't have time for her to address the council...they went from Tatooine right to Geonosis. Maybe she'll tell Obi Wan privately in ep3.

As for freeing Shmi...Watto certainly wasn't taking republic credits you know. So maybe Padme should have gone and bought a fancy gunboat from a dealer on Coruscant, flown it to Tatooine and given it to Watto in exchange for Shmi ? I'm not trying to be smartass about this....but what is your suggestion for specific payment ?

With Padme doing her duty as a Queen and then Senator, would she have been able to qualify the reasons to release one slave, when she had other important work to do in saving possibly millions - surely her right duty would have been for the good of the many and not the one?

She wouldn't have had chance to warn the Council before they shot of to "rescue" Obi-Wan. And then afterwards, well - love is blind!!

A flaw in the story line? What complete and utter bilge! Total nonsense.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think it was in any way reasonable for Padme to have interfered in the slave trade. It could NOT have been done, and it if she had it could have cost her her job as Senator and then who the hell would she have been able to help then?

And as for not telling the Council about Anakin... she is in LOVE with this person!!! What part of that is not being understood here? People cover up the sins of their lovers all the time. ALL the time.

Padem's motives, like the motives of ALL the heroes of the Star Wars universe, are good and honourable and this attemtp to bismirch here is arrant nonsense that defeats the entire objective of how Star Wars, and its carefulyl crafted morality, actually works.

Freeing Shmi from slavery by paying off Watto would not have been interfering with the slave trade in anyway, and it would only have been just ....

Firstly, it was because of her son participating and winning in the pod race, that they were able to get off Tattoine in one piece ... otherwise they would have been stuck there, Darth Maul would have come, and in all probability, they would have been destroyed by him.
The pod race is a death defying experience ... participating in it is to risk one's life. Shmi gave her consent for her son to risk his life, in the pod race, because Padme and Qui Gon and Obi Wan NEEDED those parts for their damaged ship ... in other words, Shmi allowed her son's life to be risked, for the sake of Padme and the other two, and that in turn, in fact SAVED the life of Padme and the other two, from Darth Maul.

The same son, heroically destroyed the droid control ship in the final battle, which deactivated the droid armies in the battle of Naboo, just at the point when they had totally overcome the Gungans.

With both these acts, Shmi and Anakin also saved the people of Naboo from subjugation and conquest ... and probably death, if Darth Sidious had his way.


This is NOT some ordinary ( every other type, run of the mill )slave we are talking about, and this is not some ordinary help or service we are talking about. The very least that Padme and/or the jedi council and / or the republic senate could have done for Shmi, for allowing her son to risk his life to help them, and for Anakin, for risking his life to help them, was to pay Watto to secure the release of Anakin's mother from slavery, and set her up with some means of livelihood, and a living environement better than that mud hut in Tatooine in Mos Eisley.

To say that such an act would cost Padme her job as senator is bilge .... why the heck would she lose her job ... two people, mother and son, have rendered her, the people of Naboo, the Gungans, the jedi and god knows who else invaluable service, life saving service. How the hell would it be wrong, for Padme, in return for such invaluable help, free the mother of Anakin from a life of slavery, and like I said, set her up in a place other than that little hut in that desert planet, with some simple means of livelihood. Not only would it not be wrong, it would be expected of her ... in fact, if she DIDN'T do at least this much, THEN she would be wrong, and THEN she would invite the censure of the people and the senate.

Furthermore, I again repeat to you the exchange between Obi Wan and Anakin, during the battle of Geonosis, when they are chasing Count Dooku, who isescaping from the place on his speeder, ( and Padme accidentally falls out of the ship that is chasing Dooku and Anakin wants to stop and go back for her ), where Obi Wan asks Anakin, that if Padme were in his place what would she do, and Anakin replies she would do her duty. Now check this ... in other words, if Anakin had fallen out of that ship, we, the viewers, are being told, that Padme would NOT have gone back for him, but would have proceeded on with Obi Wan to catch up with Dooku. And here, Anakin hasn't even done anything wrong ( like massacred the Tuskens ) ... he's just fallen out, and maybe, drastically injured himself. And this is the man she " truly, deeply " loves ... yet we are told to understand, she would not go back for him, because that would come in the way of her duty ....
So, when Anakin HAS done something very wrong, how can you tell me, that she would NOT tell the council about it, because of her love for him ... the same love would not have prevented her from doing her duty, even if it meant going back for her man, because he might be drastically hurt ... do you mean to tell me, that such a sense of duty would be clouded by her emotions, in a situation where her man, has done something DRASTICALLY WRONG ?

When you write a fictional story, the actions , or non-actions, of the characters in your story should be consistent with the way you paint their nature. The character of Padme, as has been described, would, if this were a real story, would have definitely paid off Watto, and freed Shmi from a life of slavery, for the help Shmi gave her, for Shmi allowing her son's life to be risked to give that help ... for her son volunteering to risk his life, and for her son ( being specially gifted ), saving the day TWICE, and in doing so, helping not just her, but the whole planet of Naboo and all its people including the Gungans. The Padme with such a stern sense of duty, that she wouldn't stop for one she " truly deeply " loves even though he may be drastically injured, would have informed the council of Anakin's serious transgression ( IT'S A GENOCIDE, A SLAUGHTER OF A WHOLE RACE OF TUSKEN'S AND EVEN THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN INCLUDED, FOLLOWED BY A VIOLENT FIT OF TEMPER, WITH TALK OF HATE ), inspite of her love for him ... in fact, probably because of her love for him ... because she would realize that this might save her man from perdition in the long run, although the short term effects might be unpleasant for him.


What IS total nonsense and UTTER bilge, is the suggestion that paying off Watto to free Shmi would be illegal and wrong, inspite of the invaluable help to Padme, to the Naboo people, to the republic and the galactic senate, and to the Jedi, and to Obi Wan and Qui Gon, that Shmi rendered, and that the son of Shmi rendered.

These are the actions that Padme would do, according to the way her character has been described. That she doesn't in the fictional story, is an INCONSISTENCY, AND THEREFORE, THE STORY DOES HAVE THIS FLAW IN IT. DEAL WITH IT !! Nobody's perfect, not even George Lucas.

Master Harmax is right about everything!!

Anyways, Padme is a major cheapo penny pincher who will end up dying more miserably than that darling desert dump diva Shimi! Talk about poetic justice!!!

Listen Tex ! I know you get some kind of sadistic pleasure from provoking and irritating people by calling Padme a b!@#$ ! It's cool ... whatever floats your boat, man.

I agree with your points, but I'm looking at it as an inconsistency in the storyline, with regard to the way Padme's character has been written. She's NOT a " cheapo penny pincher " etc.etc. whatever it is that u said ... her character is one of a fine upstanding young woman, whose a very good and kindhearted person too ... and an inconsistency in the general plot / storyline
doesn't change that !

I still massively disagree on that point; I see no inconsistencies.

all I see is a thread with alot of bs in it.

So I guess it fits in really nicely around here!

No ones going to 'dim' the fact that poor Shimi suffered unnecessarly! and that GL has a major flaw in his story! To just forget about Shimi for 10 years, and go back to her cause Anakin has nightmares is really crappy!! Bad writing!!!

Maybe they show make an Attack of the Clones Episode II.I version to go with The Phantom Edit to satisfy Texas.

texas, you sure are one kinky bastard!

Nah, that would make it much harder for me to ***** and complain!

Ush you really need to get off your slave trade high horse, Padme and her Jedi companion interferred in the slave trade when they bet Anakins freedom with a roll of the dice (literally)! Which was altered with the force by Qui-Gon no less!

Posted by Ush:


So arraning for the release of 1 slave is by far worse than marrying a Jedi padawan in secret, letting him get away with murder in your book? So you dont think she should loose her job for the later two?

She would not have been fired if she did free Padme anyways! The people of Naboo and the republic are in Shimi's debt! They would have been more than happy to free Shimi!

That's why it comes down to bad writing! Forgeting about Shimi for 10 years is not logical! GL only did it, cause he needed her to die there!

it wouldn't be right to go back to tatooine just to save one slave, and not take all the other slaves too, and if she would've saved all that would certainly secure the end of her career.

shmi had not stated that she wanted to be 'saved' either

It was a rumor I read that in the AOTC draft that Anakin got pissed and after his mother died he attacks the Tuskens and then takes the speeder to a slave compound and frees a bunch of slaves and kills the slave traders and owners.

Yeah Mah, your probably right, I'm sure Shimi must of loved slaving all day in the desert under 2 hot suns! What's to be saved from?

Yeah, it would be nice to free all the slaves, but screw them, Shimi went out of her way to help, I think it's appalling that Padme, given her enormous resources, did not!

Rex, I guess we'll have to wait till the DVD to see the rumored missing scenes.

The point is, why do you equate Shmi with the rest of the slaves ? Why the logic that either you free all the slaves or none at all, and if you secure the freedom of only one slave, instead of all, that would be wrong ? Shmi's a special case ... it's as simple as that ... she allowed her son ( who happened to specially gifted ) to risk his life because three people were in need ... and the only avenue of help they had, lay in her son. And because of what her son did ( and risked his life in doing so, with her permission and encouragement ) saved not only their lives, but saved the people of a WHOLE planet from slavery ... if the two jedi masters and Padme did not manage to leave Tattoine in time ( just about evading Darth Maul ), and reach Coruscant when they did ... let's face it ... the Trade Federation would never have been defeated, the plans of Darth Sidious would not have been frustrated and the people of Naboo would have been under subjugation.

Furthermore, the Gungans were defeated by the droid armies of the trade federation ... again at that point, if it wasn't for Anakin, blowing up the droid control ship, the Gungans would have been defeated, and Padme's guerilla type assault on the Trade Federation Neimodians, would have probably failed as well.


Now ... what value do you ascribe, to help of this level rendered by Shmi and by her son ? It saved lives ? Yes !! Many lives, including that of the queen of Naboo. It saved a whole planet from conquest and slavery ? Yup !!


Therefore ... it would be very wrong to treat Shmi as just another slave ... and say that if she alone was freed, instead of all the slaves being freed, that would be wrong.

Shmi is a special case, and should have been treated like one.
And would have too ... if it was real life, and Padme was a real life character, because that's exactly the kind of person she is ... she is NOT a b!@#$ !! she's exactly the opposite.

But this is fiction, and as far as I'm concerned, this is definitely a lose point in the whole arc of the story ...

For me both Phantom Menance and AOTC are great movies, and I like them both ... BUT ... this is a lose point in the story.

May I remind you, Tex, that Padme was entirely opposed to using Anakin in that way. It was the RENEGADE Qui-Gon whod id that and even he only did it because he thought Anakin was vital to the future of the Galaxy.

There is NO high horse here. Padme could NOT interfere in the slave trade and that is all there is to it and if you believe otherwise you are utterly naive. No matter how grateful the people mauy have been to Shmi, it still dos not give Padme the right to break the law and free her, and if she did she would be rightly taken to court over it. You cannot just ignore laws because it suits you.

And YES, Texas, Padme has not done a good thing in marrying Anakin and excusing his actions. The whole point is that is very definitely an error on her part. But she didn't do it because she is a *****, she did it because she is in love and that has clouded her judgment. Like I say, positive motivations.

And whatever you say about Shmi, Tex, it remains canonical that she made it perfectly clear that she was happy to stay on Tatooine. She also later married the love of her life there. Ooh, horrible!

Meanwhile, Harmax, Mah's point about the slaves is entirely right. Just because Shmi did a good turn, that means nothing. You cannot give her freedom higher priority than anyone else's; it is morally wrong. Every slave deserves to be freed just as much as she does and playing favourites is the wrong thing to do. That whole argument is completely flawed.

And so is the consistency argument, I find NO inconsistency in what Padme did and I would have done the same in her shoes. In fact I find this whole aspect of characters who behave like real people (no matter what odd ideas on the matter you have) and not fairy tale people a very satisfying part of the whole Prequel Trilogy.

As Dim pointed out (though rather more harshly), this whole thread is nonsense. Over analytical nonsense.

in order to face my fear of long and boring replies... here I go...

Padme is not:

by design: for what? because she gets children???

error: so why would she return in the story then?

there you go, nioce and SHORT

Indeed. Padme has never been portrayed, intentionally or otherwise, as a *****.

if she was a ***** she would have yelled at Anakin from the start of TPM!

"Are you an angel?"
"WTF are you talking about? I'm much more older then you! You just stay away from me!"

Shmi's good turn means nothing ?? So lemme get this ... firstly she has ONE son, who is her ONLY family, and who is uniquely gifted ... allowing him to risk his life in a pod race, which could have killed him, and left her totally alone, in order to help three people, who are total strangers to her, whom she's never met before in her life, means nothing.

The fact that her son did win the race, because of which those three people got hold of a part which they needed, and got their ship repaired just in time so that they could leave just in time before Darth Maul came along and probably finished them off, starting with the Queen of Naboo, means nothing.

The same son destroys a droid control ship, which saves an entire race of living beings from total destruction by a droid army, means nothing.

Now that her son's left at the age of 9 to train as a jedi padawan, leaving her again totally alone, and left to fend for herself, on a desert island planet in the middle of nowhere, living in the " worst hive of scum and villainy ", means nothing.


Of course ... inspite of all this, Shmi's no different from any other slave ... all the other slaves on Tattoine were also similarly queing up to make similar great sacrifices, ( a few of them even offered Master Qui-Gon the use of THEIR sons to battle the approaching Darth Maul ) ... so why should we give Shmi any special treatment ? That would be playing favourites, and would be a moral travesty ... she can jolly well rot away on that desert planet into her old age, like the rest of those slaves, paying for her own food and water and clothes, meagre as they are ( because her son's nowhere around ) ... even though all the living beings on a whole planet, including the Gungans, indirectly owe their very freedom to her ?
That means NOTHING !!! So what if Padme, their queen, owes Shmi, indirectly, for her freedom and probably her life ... that means NOTHING !! Nope. A SLAVE SHE IS AND A SLAVE SHALL SHE REMAIN !! It's not for anyone to pay for her freedom .... because LIFE SAVING, AND SLAVERY SAVING HELP TO A WHOLE PLANET, BY PLEDGING THE LIFE OF HER ONLY SON COUNT FOR ........... NOTHING !!!!




How lucky for you, that you are in possession of the SLAVE TRADE LAWS ACT REFERENCE GUIDE, for whatever galaxy that this story takes place, in whatever year ... that's right ... it has been specifically layed down in article 341, subsection 19a, that freeing of slaves, by paying for their freedom to their slave masters, is QUITE ILLEGAL, and you can be incarcerated for doing that.
Those poor people on Naboo ... those helpless Gungans ... they SOOOOOO wanted Queen Padme ( their representative ) to pay off Watto whatever paltry sum of money he wanted to secure the release of Shmi .... if only it wasn't for that stupid law. By the way ... it's a good thing you pointed it out to me, because though I've seen TPM about two dozen times and AOTC twice ... I simply cannot recall anyone referring to the SLAVE TRADE ACT laws for that decade of time for that galaxy, that those movies encompass ... had you not told me, I would have never known Lucas had actually come up with a whole system of edicts specifically aimed at systemizing the slave trade for his fictional galaxy. I wish he had atleast thought of mentioning it in passing in either of those two movies ... and also put it up on starwars.com, for the sake of NAIVE folks like myself, who are rather mystified as to what the HELL could possibly be illegal, in one person paying another person who owns a slave, and does not mind setting that slave free, for a certain price.

Padme Amidala .... according to the man she loves, Anakin Skywalker ... if he, Anakin, were to accidentally fall out of a ship and break his spine in the process, and Padme was Obi Wan's jedi padawan, and they were chasing Count Dooku ... she would not stop to go back for him ... or even to check if he's ok ... she " truly deeply " loves him .... but duty stands forth before everything else, especially personal emotions. We know the young senator to be a person of large heart and kindness, especially to people who have rendered help to her people or her.
Which is the reason why she accepted bumbling stumbing and entirely foolish Mr. Jar Jar Binks, representative of the Gungan population of the planet of Naboo to the galactic senate ... which is why she took so much care to look after a certain droid, R2-D2, because, when being chased in an attempt to escape from killerships belonging to the trade federation, saved her ship from destruction.
What a lady ! What high character, and what great heart and compassion. Unfortunately ... she also suffers from migraine headaches ... which cause recurrent bouts of amnesia. That's the reason she forgot about old Shmi Skywalker on planet Tatooine ... because of whom she's alive and free and well.
Oh yeah ! By the way !! guess what happened ... she had this bad virus flu for a couple of weeks ... and that clouded her emotions so much, that she went and married Anakin though he had slaughtered a whole race of Tusken's and thrown a violent fit of anger afterwards, and .... hehehe .... she didn't even bother informing the jedi council about any of this ! Of course ... this is the same Anakin, who she wouldn't bother stopping for, even if he might be dead, if it came in the way of her duty ... but, those Naboo virus flu's have been known to have a strangely deleterious effect on one's sense of duty, no matter how strong.

You are right !! The story is fine ! there's no inconsistency or flaw in any of this !

Now let's stop over analysing this .... there are all these other threads, where we haven't been nitpicking and analysing enough .... like whether it was red milk or blue milk that was served at lunch in the Lars homestead ... and does the emperor have a lightsabre ? and if so, what colour ? and let's not forget the episode 3 countdown thread ... is it 1080 days, or 1079 days ??? We really need to concentrate on those underanalysed threads, and drop this dead donkey.

"He was ment to help you"
she accepted this all!
"Don't look back, before you go"
"What does your heart tell you?"
...
"

Pfft! The exact same arguments again and just as feeble as before. You can stop over analyzing any time you like; I'll keep pointing out the flaws in what you say.

First of all, no. It matters not a jot what Shmi has done. Not at all. Not because it does not mean she is a good and noble person. But because doing good turns, no matter how large, does not give her any extra privileges when it comes to being freed. ALL the slaves deserve to be freed because slavery is wrong. You cannot improve upon that. And it is very very wrong indeed to free just onle of those many slaves because she was helpful.

As to your throughly feeble comment abouut me knowing the laws... this is not at all complex, Harmax. It is clearly stated that slavery is outlawed in the Republic,. Paying money for a slave is participating in slavery. That is illegal. Now, is that too complex for you? Because I will happily explain it again if you wish!

And you completely misread the situation when Padme fell from the ship. The truth, of course, is that Padme WOULD have gone back for Anakin. Obi-Wan does not know this because he does not know that those two have fallen head over heels in love. Anakin does not do it ONLY because Obi-Wan, a man he loves nearly as much as her, is yelling at him about it and yelling the exact right thing- the thing that Padme should have done in the same situation, which Anakin knows is the right thing to do. But the fact is, she would not. Lovr has compromised her judgment. That is why she does not tell the Council and that is why she marries Anakin. Absolutely not the slightest bit of inconsistency at all.

Harmax, shouting your sentences in capitals and your extremely clumsy sarcasm will not help your argument at all. Fact is, only you and Texas even vaguely believe this ludicrous idea and that only because you have completely mis-interpreted what has been laid out in front of you. You are the one who created this donkey. If you think its dead thrn you should stay away.

Also, yerss, her lines ""My life is here, my heart is here" show how perfectly happy Shmi was to stay on Tatooine. It WAS her home, after all.

yeah well, those were the first to pop in my mind...

And, you know, even if Padme was NOT acting with the same rationality in every decision she made, this again would not be at all inconsistent for someone in love. As anyone who has been in love should know.

or she doesn't get the danger of the tusken slaughter, she apperently doesn't know a lot of the Jedis

Indeed, I doubt she even appreciates the significance of any of it.

him telling and crying would make her think he regretted it and would make it partially ok

And she almost certainly assumes that the Jedi will notice if there is a serious problem.

ofcourse! the boy's a padawan! he has a master for something!

All in all very difficult to find any problem at ALL with Padme's actions here.

I repeat the same arguments because the same arguments are being repeated to me ... it gives me no pleasure to repeat for the 100th time, that what Shmi did, goes beyond a simple " good turn " .... and that the way the character of Padme has been built, she would have never stood for someone, who was indirectly responsible the freedom of her, and her people ... an entire planet ... living the rest of her life as a slave ... she would have tried everything possible to free her of that ( whether, as a free woman, Shmi decided to continue living on Tattoine or elsewhere is besides the point ) .... furthermore ... if one buys a slave belonging to someone else, and uses that person as a slave for oneself, than one may be accused of indulging in the slave trade .... but freeing a slave of slavery by paying the slave owner whatever he demanded ( whether money, or something else ) DOES NOT CONSTITUTE TRAFFICKING IN SLAVES. If that were so, Qui Gon Jinn is a slave trafficker.

And to say that that would be morally wrong ... because you either free all slaves or none at all, and to only free one would be incorrect, is fallacious ... how can you equate Shmi with the rest of the slaves .... or to put it another way, how can you not treat Shmi as a special case ....

and the point is ... Padme, being the kind of person she is ... would do EXACTLY that .... which she doesn't ... and that's a loose end in the story.







So according to Obi Wan, Padme would heed the call of duty first and put her personal emotions aside. Ditto with Anakin ... but, you feel free to interprete this exchange in your own way, and say that both these characters are speaking from a state of mistaken judgement ... and in fact in the same situation she WOULD follow her emotions ... and I'm supposed to accept your interpretation ... and ignore what the guy who wrote the scripts wants to convey to me, about the character of Padme, through this conversation between the two characters ?

I think not ... it IS an inconsistency that a person of such a strong sense of duty would not inform the jedi council of Anakin's actions ( and the suggestion, that she doesn't fully comprehend the seriousness and the portent of his actions is ludicruous .... she's not a girl of 5 ! )

It IS an inconsistency, that a person of a large and grateful heart
would make absolutely no effort whatsover to secure freedom from slavery, for a person who is indirectly responsible for her life and freedom, and for the life and freedom of a whole planet she lives on and its people whom she loves .... especially when that person happens to be a woman fast approaching old age ... who practically has no family,because her only son is now far away from her, training to be a jedi.

Oh Master Harmax dont even bother anymore! You wont get anything through these people's thick heads! It's a shame their too naive to realize their utterly and hopelessly dead wrong about Shmi.

I think my topic has *Eric Cartman Voice* warped their fragile little minds!!

*Eric Cartman Voice*
Well Leia's mom she's a big fat *****, she's the biggest ***** in the whole wide world, she's a stupid ***** if their ever was a *****, she's a ***** to all the boys and girls.....................

No encore for you babe!

Sorry Tex ... but as far as that is concerned ... agree with you I do not .... and agree with you being offensive like that, I do not.

I agree with what you say, in terms of looking at it as a loose end in the arc of the story ... but, as for being offensive and profane like that ... you're on your own, mate.

So I'm being profane and offensive about a fictional character, big freaking deal!!!

Theres never a lack of drama when Tex is around!

So I noticed ! This conversation has been rather vexing ... I think I'll head over to the humour section now ... I guess love IS blind after all ... that would be the only reason why people would refuse to accept such a clear cut loose end in Lucas's plotline.

No, it's just your inability to understand how love works has made you think this is all an error when it isn't. And I have no idea by what stretch of the imagination you don;t think buying a slave's freedom is not slave trafficking. It is payng money into an illegal system to procures ervices. In real life that is considered slave trafficking and it certainly would be in Star Wars as well.

And yes, Qu-Gon DID illegally involve himself when he freed Anakin. As I pointed out, Qui-Gon is a renegade, and even so he only did it because he believed that the future of the galaxy dependd on the boy. Those wee the stakes he was playing for! But that's also the sort of person he is, unlike a responsbile head of state like Padme.

And you MUST equate Shmi with the rest of the slaves. FOr a start, she did not help the others because she expected to be freed, she helped them because it was the right thing to do. That makes her a good person. It does not give her any special rights! ALL the slaves, I repeat, deserve to be freed, whether they have helped Padme or not.

And Padme, being the responsbile person she is, would not involve herself in the mire of legality by illegally freeing Shmi. As the person she is who fervently beleives in the Republic, she woulkd attempot to improve the Republic to the point where the Tatooine slave trade would be stamped out. A far more reasonable way to work.

And if you haven't noticed the extent to which Anakin and Amidala are compromising their judgment because of their love for each other, no matter what Obi-Wan says, then I am very sure that you have COMPLETELY missd the point of the script, though I note you are happy to be choosy when it comes to beleiving what the script says because the TPM script makes it very clear that Shmi is happy to stay on Tatooine and you seem to want to ignore that.

There is not the remotest inconsistency here except for people who are deliberately trying to create one.

amen to that!

Ah, Ush is a man who understands the way of the world..

Why thank you, Dim... hang on! That's not what you said yesterday!

Okay...besides the FF tendencies...you're a man who understands the world.

Yikes...

move to america ush

Huh?..why America?..he's just fine where he's at, Thank you very much!

*starts to cry*

ow, this is so romantic

it will take him a long time to find a canoe so you have plenty of time to fly to australia

Hey!

This is a Texas thread, compliments and love talk will not be tolerated!!!

that's ok Tex, no-one loves you anyway

Oooh, you tell him, yerss...

Insults, yes, now that's more like it!!!

"Do not mistake insults for the truth"

even Bjork insults???

bjork? insults?
people would be glad if someone yelled at you that you're not a freak and that you're smart!

" And I have no idea by what stretch of the imagination you don;t think buying a slave's freedom is not slave trafficking. It is payng money into an illegal system to procures ervices. In real life that is considered slave trafficking and it certainly would be in Star Wars as well. "

Who'se talking about buying the services of Shmi Skywalker ? I've made it perfectly clear, I do NOT mean that Padme should buy Shmi from Watto, so that Shmi has a new slave owner, i.e. Padme .... that would be slave trafficking ... I meant, paying whatever Watto wanted, to free Shmi from him, so that she STAYS free, and is a slave no longer ... that is NOT slave trafficking, that is exactly the opposite ... setting a slave free, and there is nothing remotely illegal about that. And as such, Qui Gon was NOT indulging in slave trafficking either.

" And you MUST equate Shmi with the rest of the slaves. FOr a start, she did not help the others because she expected to be freed, she helped them because it was the right thing to do. That makes her a good person. It does not give her any special rights! ALL the slaves, I repeat, deserve to be freed, whether they have helped Padme or not. "

It is precisely because she did not expect anything in return for what she did, that she deserves to be freed ... she allowed her only son to risk her life for Padme and the two jedi ... that led to a sequence of events, which made her indirectly responsible for the life and freedom of Padme, and the people of Naboo ... this sort of help does not fall into the ordinary category, it falls into the extraordinary category ... and so it would be a great fallacy to put Shmi in the same basket as all the other slaves. Padme, the people of Naboo ( which include the Gungans ), the galactic senate, the jedi council ... they are all personally indebted to Shmi and they owe her big time ... it would be moral mistake, therefore, if they DIDN'T do anything about her living in slavery ... NOT if they did.

"she woulkd attempot to improve the Republic to the point where the Tatooine slave trade would be stamped out. A far more reasonable way to work. "

I totally disagree with you, when you say either free all the slaves, or none at all ... all the slaves, are not like Shmi ... everyone is not prepared to sacrifice the life of their only son to help three total strangers, expecting nothing in return.
But even if I grant you your above point ( which I definitely don't ), Padme in the story didn't even " attempt to improve the Republic to the point where the Tatooine slave trade would be stamped out. ", a rather unneccessarily tedious and round about way to help Shmi. And the fact that Padme didn't do anthing whatsoever for her in return .. forget trying to buy her freedom, she didn't even visit her once in 10 years on Tattoine ... is totally inconsistent with her characterization. And therefore, this is a loose point in the story.

" And if you haven't noticed the extent to which Anakin and Amidala are compromising their judgment because of their love for each other, no matter what Obi-Wan says, then I am very sure that you have COMPLETELY missd the point of the script, though I note you are happy to be choosy when it comes to beleiving what the script says because the TPM script makes it very clear that Shmi is happy to stay on Tatooine and you seem to want to ignore that. "

In fact, it is you, who are " choosy when it comes to believing what the script says ". When it suits your purpose, you tell us to take the script " as is " and not complicate things by adding our own interpretations, because Star Wars is a simple story " white hats, black hats " etc .... but when it doesn't suit your purpose, you freely do your " own thing " and superimpose your own interpretation of what the script says ....

Anakin clearly tells Obi Wan that if Padme were in his place, and HE had fallen out of that ship .... she would not go back for him, but continue the chase for Dooku, because that would be her duty ... in other words, no matter how much she loved Anakin, she would not abandon her duty for that love.
So similarly, nowithstanding her love for Anakin, if the story remained true to her characterization as a person with an unshakeable sense of duty, than she WOULD have informed the jedi council about Anakin's slaughter of the Tuskens.

But in this case, taking the script as it is, and accepting it's import as it it, does not suit your purpose, so you feel free to impose your own interpretation on the script by saying that although Anakin said that Padme would not have stopped for him, she WOULD have stopped and gone back for him, and her love for him HAD clouded her sense of duty .... I'm afraid it is you who are missing the point of the script.

"There is not the remotest inconsistency here except for people who are deliberately trying to create one. "

These are definite inconsistencies in the plot, and I take strong exception to you saying that I'm deliberately trying to create them ... I have better things to do with my time, and even at this forum, better things to discuss ... I am not a wierdo guy, that would get some sort of sadistic delight out of trying to "diss" Star Wars by trying to point out faults in it, and trying to create faults where none exist.
I love Star Wars as much as anyone here, and inspite of the fact that I believe that there are a couple of loose points in the plot of the two prequel movies, ( and for that matter, such loose ends exist even in the OT ), that is not going to make me love or respect any of the movies including AOTC any less.
But if someone rightly points out a loose end, I shall honestly agree with him ... and not because I have no other use for my time that to deliberately poke holes in the Star Wars story line where there are none.

Hmmmmmmm..that's alot of white type.

Check it out ... there's a good deal of sense in it.

I did check it out..notice my lack of interest as far as commenting on it?

Yes. So be it. I must say what I must ...

*nods amicably*

*follows Dim's example*

Wow...I'm a role model..

No no no. If Padme was a ***** she would've said:
"Oh yeah babe, I'm you're angel. Now come here and lick my..."

That proves Padme is NOT a *****.

*starts singing* ''BS, BS, BS, BS...BS, BS, BS, BS''

ALL the slaves deserved to be freed, if they sacrifice their son or not matters not! they are still goood people, who are slaves against theur will, and should OF COURSE be freed! padme would therefore do a much better job not getting fired as a senator and instead tryin to help the masses!

*runs in*
*grabs beer*
*smacks head against wall*
*runs outside again*

Harmax, I understood PERFECTLY well what you said about freeig Shmi. I cannot beleive you remain so ignorant about how this works.

Paying money to a slave owner top fre a slave IS slave trafficking. It is so in the real world and it will be so in Star Wars. That IS how it works and your continual pointless denials of this get you nowhere.

And Mah is right. You are talking SUCH bullshit about saying that Shmi deserves to be freed more than the rest of the slaves. That is such an alarming comment that I seriously wonder about you. It does not matter a JOT what good deeds she has done. She is a slave and deserves to be freed and that is all there is to it.

When Europe was liberated in WWII, did people consider that only those people who had proven that they were good and just people deemed worthy to be freed? Of cvourse not! They ALL deserved to be freed because their domination was wrong. That cannot be broken down any fruther. They ALL desevred to be freed as soon as possible and nothing any of them did would make them a special case. So it remains with Shmi and to see it any other way is astonishingly unjust to all the other slaves who are equally deserving of freedom.

And what the hell makesd you think Padme is not trying to improve the Republic? It has been mase so ABUNDANTLY clear that she is. She was also clearly horrified when she was told there was slavery in the Republic at all. Honestly, your mentality is breathtaking!

I note you cannot be bothered to defend yourself on any of my points and merely turn the same ones back against me, which is pretty immature. But more to the point it is also wrong. I am simply taking obvious points from the script as presented to me. As just about everyone else agrees with me, are we to assume that you are some form of great saviour, the only one who has 'correctly; interpreted the Star Wars scripts in definaces of everyone else's idiotic opinions? No, I rather think not, and if you cannot see the self-evident points in the script about the way the relationship between Padme and Anakin works then you are completely blind.

And again, I repeat, your attempt to take two people madly in love and apply consistent rationals for their actions flies completely in the face of how love works. In case you hadn't noticed, people in love do funny things and they don't always do the same thing the same way twice. Your attempt to pigeonhole her so fails to even get off the ground.

I don't care how strong an exception you take to me saying that the only inconsistencies are there are those you deliberately create, and I don't care about your justifications in your defence either. If you were going to be so upset with it, you shouldn't have made it look so blatantly like you have created this problem simply in your own mind- a problem no-one else sees except Texas., and you can't even agree with the rationale of it all with him. If you can't see how obscure you are being withbthis criticism, then fine, but don't get shirty just because other people point this out. Because you might have to live with being VERY shirty if you do.

There ARE no inconistencies in this part of the plot. None at all. You are making them up.

Shall we close it up now?

It HAS reached the point where everyone is saying the same thing over and over. I don't think anyone will convince anyone else.

Should we flip a coin to see who's right?

Closing.