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The Sith Empire is the one that Ragnos commanded, at it's height.

Ew. This could be ugly.

I mean, naval wise the Empire cleans up.

But if Ragnos and his twenty apostles start doing crazy stuff like making star systems go nova, this could be a hectic fight.

I would say the Sith win this, but barely. They could just obliterate the Death Star with the force and annihalate planets by throwing stars at the,.

Well, with millions of planets to blow up, it could be a long drawn out battle of attrition.

Seriously, thinking about it though... Would Sidious even with the Empire in his pocket, willingly attack the Golden Age of the Sith Empire?

Nope, he'd be wetting himself.

Easy way to win this battle for the Sith: Have part of the main fleet engage Imperial Forces in the skies over some random important planet. Let them get mostly butchered.

Send Naga Sadow to the sun in the Coruscanti system. Detonate the sucker. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

The Sith would win.

Even easier if they are pushed on the defensive from the start. The fewer they own the easier it will be to take out the Empire. Just lure the massive Imperial fleets into traps with Sadow around and bam you have the end of one of the imperial fleets.

Technology is nice, but even technology can't give you victory against living gods.

Was Aleema Keto a living god because she, too, could use the technology in Sadow's ship directed by her Force powers to manipulate stars?

I think we overestimate the Sith a bit, but I also think it would be a hell of a fight. It depends quite a lot on how many times the Sith can lure the Empire with Sadow's ship.

Originally posted by IKC
Was Aleema Keto a living god because she, too, could use the technology in Sadow's ship directed by her Force powers to manipulate stars?

I think we overestimate the Sith a bit, but I also think it would be a hell of a fight. It depends quite a lot on how many times the Sith can lure the Empire with Sadow's ship.

No, Aleema was a weakling compared to Ragnos, Sadow, Kun, Kressh, et cetera. But Ragnos is a force god, possibly the most powerful Sith ever to exist, aside from Nihilus. The other Sith Lords are veritable gods too.

Think about it, if Ragnos and his demigog of Sith Lords attacked at once they would be able to obliterate the fleets by sheer power. So they don't really need the ship to win. The ship helps, by a very large margin, but they could still win.

And the point exists that if the ancient Sith had technology that could manipulate Force energy of even lower level users such as Aleema and make stars go nova this entire fight does not bode well for the Empire.

Plus Sidious and Vader's position would be sorely undermined. There can only be two Sith in the Post-Ruusan galaxy. When god knows how many Sith Lords (who's weakest members could crush Sidious and Vader like a bug) start popping up, the Empire might start to fragment under the pressure. The fleet admirals would lose confidence in Vader's power. Some of them would probably seceed and turn renegade.

Imperial power is somewhat based upon a "doctrine of terror." If they see someone like Vader, a relatively fear-inducing person getting squashed like an insect, then their morale with plummet.

Very insightful look into the situation.

Plus, psychologically, if the Sith sent an army into battle, the Empire's troops, seeing seven foot tall men butchering people and then smashing their heads in with Sith magic will have an extremely adverse effect on the psychology of the troops.

Were you a general in a past life?

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Were you a general in a past life?

Possibly, I would like to think so

You certainly do think like one.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

...

Compliments: Five bucks.

Damn! I knew it would cost something!

It's highway robbery! Gentlemen compliment first, rob second!

"Your lupins or your life, mi'lord."

lmao

Monty Python is so funny.

Indeed!

The Galatic Empire wins. It was(or at least seemed to be) rare that Sadow(the second most powerful alive after Ragnos) was able to destroy a star. Compared to the Empire, this is nothing. Each hypermatter reactor in a star destroyer has the energy output of an entire Star. 25,000 Stars in just the destroyers.


Thrawn with his Star Destroyer(the Chimera) could take Korriban, or any Sith Planet for that matter. Thrawn was smart enough to make his ships immune to the force.

Glentract, I doubt it'll be "rare" when the Sith lords band together to repel this threat that stars and planets will be exploding left and right. The Sith clearly have this capability.

Second, the reactor power of a Star Destroyer isn't going to stop the above mentioned asswhuppin.

Third, I doubt enough of those force bugs can safeguard the entire Imperial fleet from the star system exploding on them... unless those are -really- good bugs.

Then again, since when do the Sith band together without stabbing each other in the back? Even against their most hated enemy, the Jedi, they were more focused on killing each other than their common foe.

Assuming that the Sith band and -stay- together, they win. And Traya, I was pointing out we are very much overestimating the raw force power of the old Sith by my Aleema Keto remark. I agree that Sadow's ability to create such technology/alchemy doesn't bode well for the Empire.

This would probably be the most titanic galactic conflict ever.

Definately.

Of course, Ragnos was shrewd and powerful enough to survive and even direct over a hundred years of Sith backstabbing, including the machinations of Kressh, Sadow, Simus and the others of that Sith Lord council. Considering he is part of the equation (And indeed, we have no idea just how powerful he is in person!) the Sith are more likely to maintain a united front in this case.

He was shrewd and powerful enough to survive them -himself-, but that doesn't mean lesser sith lords weren't assassinated. I reason this because I assume plenty of lesser Sith would see this galactic conflict as a means to increase their own prestige and power. I still think they have a high chance of beating themselves.

I don't go with the rest of the forum that indicates Ragnos was a god of the Force. I admit he must have been extraordinarily powerful - indeed, probably the most powerful of his time, but all we have to judge him on is that he managed to die in his sleep as Dark Lord of the Sith after an over-100-year reign.

Given this, I believe it to be quite the assumption to argue that he'd squash any other beings who were the "best of their time" (Those being Exar Kun, full-potential Anakin Skywalker, among others).

First, stars are so far apart that they would be innefective as a primary weapon in a war. Their volume almost non-existent when compared to the void of space.


Second, a ground battle will not happen. Star Destoryers will commit Base Delta Zero one every Sith Planet. If not, the Death Star 1 or 2, Eclipse 1 or 2, or Galaxy gun will destroy that planet.

Also, have you ever heard of a tactic called "Imperial Bullet"? It was a technique that Dalaa planned to use in desperation against Coruscant(Kyp stopped her). The idea, use an ISD like a bullet and shoot a planet. The kinetic energy of a Star Destoryer crashing into a planet will cause massive damage.

Third, the Imperials were generally brainwashed into serving the Emperor. They will not turn against him even when fighting someone like Ragnos.


The bugs are good. Thrawn was able to extract enough of the bugs in only a few days to block Joruus from many Imperial Ships. With Cloning places Wayland(a hidden planet) able to turn out thousands of them per week(The Sparti Cloning vats were better than the Kaminoian because Thrawn discovered how to make them able to grow a stable Clone in one week. Kamino Clones went mad if grown in under a year.) That's ~15,000 Clone Yslammari(spelling?) per week from a very WEAK Empire. If the Empire at it's height put resources into Cloning, millions, maybe even tens of millions would be easily grown every week. That's enough to protect the entire Fleet in a relativly short period of time.

The Sith aren't going to be able to attack many places. They don't have hyperspace routes to the majority of the galaxy. Even the New Republic didn't get routes into the Deep Core. Only the Empire ever posessed these. Deep Core bases were destroyed by Imerial Warlords.


Also, the Empire has the capability to mine hyperspace routes. They could also set up interdictors across every hyperspace routes. The seemed to have knowledge of Coruscant's location. The problem they will face is getting there. Their ships are FAR slower than Imperial Ships. Mixed with Imperial Interdictors patrolling the routes, the Sith have no chance of getting to major Imperial Plantets(Coruscant, Kaut, Fondor, Bastion, Yaga Minor, ect.).

In any engagments that are ship to ship, the Sith will be crushed, but you all already knew that.

So, I see NO possibilty of the Sith Empire winning.

Hm. I disagree that the Sith empire has no chance, but you raise some interesting points.

However, Daala, if I'm not mistaken, tried to use the "imperial bullet" using a Super Star Destroyer on Yavin 4. From what little I remember, I think Luke's apprentices were able to gather enough telekinetic energy through the Force to throw the destroyer back - quite a feat.

You're right, though, in that the Sith are quite limited in what they can attack. If I'm not mistaken, the Sith were discovered by the Republic hyperspace explorers shortly after Ragnos' death. At that time, the height of the Sith Empire, they were extremely isolated, backward, and primitive (Sadow and Kressh dueled with swords.)

Perhaps galactic technology has evolved enough in the time of the Empire to limit the Sith's advantages, but I'm hesitant to believe it. Then again, most of the posted scenarios involve literally the entirety of the upper-tier Sith Lords doing battle together at one place at a time.

Would this not limit their warmaking capabilities? I'd think it'd be relatively simple for even a mediocre Imperial admiral to conduct strikes against the weaker Sith forces first, and save the main battle for the end when the Empire can marshall its superior forces against them. That, and I don't remember the Sith being known for their vast fleets.

She may have tried to use it on Yavin, but she also tried to use it with a ISD against Coruscant.

And moving that SSD is like that Tales Book. Retarded beyond belief and shouldn't even be considered. There is no way Luke's students could do what Yoda couldn't even hope to do.

Those are good points. Alright, I concede. The ancient Sith empire is not equipped properly to fight a galaxy-wide war. A decivise large battle? They could play dirty and win. A long campaign? I'm thinking not. The clincher IMO was the lack of hyperspace routes, which was something I had forgotten.

Glad to hear someone agree's. I was wondering if I had become an Imerial Fanboy without knowing it.

...

Fanboy.

lol

I still disagree...

Again this does not have to be a mass battle, but you honestly think that Palpatine will survive for long? And them dueling with swords means nothing. When they found a lightsaber they threw the weapon away prefering to use swords.

An ISD was still thrown away by Luke his students, retarded or not it doesn't matter. Sadow, Kresh, Ragnos could probably all do the same. Sidious will not underestimate this enemy and its most powerful fleet would go there to meet them head on. The destruction against the Empire would be great. Then the destruction of Coruscant hundreds of thousands of defecting units.

The Empire will lose its capitol at the start of the war. The Sith will be outnumbered god knows how many to one, and they will have to be prepared to lose anything but a few worlds. But those few worlds will give them the power to strike anywhere. They could never rule the Empire, but they could destroy it.

The core of a star launched at the core of the Imperial fleet could not be stopped, not by anybody. The Empire would lose through mass slaughter conquering all but the most important Sith Worlds.

Originally posted by Fishy
Again this does not have to be a mass battle, but you honestly think that Palpatine will survive for long? And them dueling with swords means nothing. When they found a lightsaber they threw the weapon away prefering to use swords.

First: Palpatine can survive very long. He has an unlimited number of clones lying around so he can come back again and again and again.

And that they threw the lightsaber away doesn't mean that their swords are superior to lightsabers. If you have trained with a weapon for decades or centuries and I hand you a weapon that works different and requires tons of training again to be handled properly (because the "blade" having no weight) - would you not keep your "old" weapon instead of training with a new one ?
Obviously the later Sith Lords (Kun, Nadd, Hord) preferred lightsabers over Sith swords and they had access to both and I guess for the same reason the ancient Sith preferred their swords instead of using lightsabers.



Luke and his students were combining their force powers and this combined force power was aided by the Massasi ruins which were built for exactly that reason. So there is the possibility that Sadow, Kressh or Ragnos couldn't do the same because missing those "focus" points.



Sidious knows the location of Korriban and Ziost (he visited both planets). If he sends the most powerful things he has that would be the Sun Hammer, 2 Death Stars, 2 Eclipse Ships and the Galaxy Gun. Add some SSDs. Do you think the Sith Lords can handle all that stuff before one of the superweapons can fire one time ?



Seeing what Glentract has written about blocking hyperspace routes I guess there won't be much of a Sith fleet left to attack Coruscant not even thinking about the possibilty to conquer the planet.



And if somebody can place a shot on Sadow's ship the "star core throwing" is over before it would have really begun.