The Hall of Villainy

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Escape81
The Star Wars universe (The movies + Expanded Universe) is home to a great deal of villains and foes that our heroes must ultimately face - and then defeat - to secure peace and order in the galaxy.

Whether they take appearance in the Ancient Sith Lords, the Galactic Empire, the Yuuzhan Vong, or a few wily gangsters, these villains have been around since the beginning of the story, always threatening and performing wicked deeds, to their black hearts' lovely content.

But if you could name the Top Three (3) Greatest Star Wars villains - including the Expanded Universe - whom would you say? Now, when I say name villains, I do not mean 'organizations'. I mean people. Entities.

Using this system of criteria, rank the villains on a scale from one to ten in each skill (ten being the highest), and then tally up your points, and decide which of your three candidates belongs in the ever esteemed Hall of Villainy!

Criteria:
-------------------

*Villainy: How evil are these guys?
*Intellect: How smart are these guys?
*Courage: Are they brave or cowards?
*Impact: Have their deeds had any effect on the galaxy?
*Power: Whether it be political or Force-wise, how powerful are they?
*Lifespan: Have they threatened for years? Or for hours?
*Ego: Modest? Arrogant?
*Lackeys: Common thugs or fully-dangerous beings of terror?
*Fighting Ability: Can they hold their own, or let henchmen do it for them?

And finally...

*What THREE words best describes this villain?

Enjoy.

Gryn Jabar
1) Vader
*Villainy: Brutal, Harsh and full of hate.
*Intellect: Smart enough to wipe out the jedi.
*Courage: Willing to go toe to toe.
*Impact: Probably had the single greatest impact of ANY jedi or sith.
*Power: Most potential, but severely reduced after his duel with Obi-Wan.
*Lifespan: Not long at all. Maybe 40-60 AFAIK
*Ego: Mostly. Subservient to his master, but a dick to everyone else.
*Lackeys: Most of the imperial fleet and army.
*Fighting Ability: Again, amazing for his time, but not up to his full potential.

Sorgo
Darth Sidious

*Villainy: 10 out of 10
- Sidious was quite evil. He tortured a young boy and basically punked the Jedi with badass precision and total ownage of evil at his side.

*Intellect: 10 out of 10
- He massed the ability to cover his appearance for several years, he emassed three very powerful apprentices, he turned a large army against the Jedi and he nearly smashed the galaxy twenty years later.

*Courage: 5 out of 10
- I would not consider him a very brave man. He usually had someone at his hand doing his dirty work for him. He never really got into anything himself.

*Impact: 9 out of 10
- He kind of owned the Galaxy for a long period of time.


*Power: 10 out of 10
- His Force Powers were extremely powerful and he was a Political figure for several years.

*Lifespan: 10 out of 10
He threatened for a series of years.

*Ego: 6 out of 10
-Although his personality is very shadowy, he is seen underestimating his opponents several times.

*Lackeys: 10 out of 10
-His lackeys were apprentices of great power. Ex: Vader and Dooku.

*Fighting Ability: 8 out of 10
-He wasn't known as a venerable swordsman, but he managed to murder three Jedi in less than ten seconds.


Power, Destruction and Manipulation.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Count Dooku

*Villainy: 8 out of 10
- He was evil, but not to a large extent.

*Intellect: 10 out of 10
- He emassed a powerful Droid Army, he was always very smart with his traps and entanglements.

*Courage: 7 out of 10
- Quite brave, but occassionally runs from a battle. Although he usually stays behind and fights.

*Impact: 8 out of 10
- He and his Master made quite the team and had a lasting impact.

*Power: 9 out of 10
- His Force Powers were extremely powerful and he was a Political Mastermind.

*Lifespan: 6 out of 10
He threatened for a few years.

*Ego: 9 out of 10
- Very arrogant and Egotistical. He knows of his power and threatens his opponents with it very precisely.

*Lackeys: 10 out of 10
-He had quite the team of powerful lackeys. Ex: Grievous and Ventress.

*Fighting Ability: 10 out of 10
- One of the greatest Swordsman in the Galaxy of his time, he was a Master of the Lightsaber.


Arrogance, Power and Persuasion.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Darth Maul


*Villainy: 8 out of 10
- He was evil, but not to a large extent.

*Intellect: 7 out of 10
- A venerable Assassin but not very smart.

*Courage: 8 out of 10
- A Brave man. Didn't run from a good fight.

*Impact: 7 out of 10
- Killing Qui gon was a crushing blow to the Order and caused a bad series of events.

*Power: 6 out of 10
- His force powers were not seen well enough to judge properly, but from what we know he ain't too good.

*Lifespan: 4 out of 10
Meh....

*Ego: 10 out of 10
- Extreme arrogance that lead to his demise.

*Lackeys: 2 out of 10
- The man was a Lackey.

*Fighting Ability: 6 out of 10
- Killed a Jedi Master, but was sadly then killed by a mere Padawan. He had fair fighting skills.


Assassination, Murder and Deceit.

Lord Simus
Villiany:
Sidious (10)
Traya (10)
Kun (10)

Intellect:
Sidious (10)
Traya (6)
Kun (6)

Courage:
Sidious (1)
Traya (8)
Kun (10)

Impact:
Sidious (10)
Traya (9)
Kun (10)

Power:
Sidious (10)
Traya (8)
Kun (10)

Lifespan:
Sidious (10)
Traya (7)
Kun (9)

Ego:
Sidious (1)
Traya (5)
Kun (1)

Lackeys:
Sidious (10)
Traya (10)
Kun (10)

Fighting ability:
Sidious (9)
Traya (9)
Kun (10)

Total:
Sidious-68
Traya-72
Kun-76

Three words that best describe Sidious
Dangerous, Manipulating, and Arrogant. Those are the words for my choice to be put in the hall of villiany.

Escape81
Excellent; I see a lot of similarities between Darth Traya and Palpatine. They'd be a lovely, elderly, and very vicious couple. Lol. Sorgo, kudos for the detail.

Deus Ex
lol!

Escape81
Lol. Well, it's true. Palpatine and Traya are dangerous and evil enough on their own... But imagine them united. It wouldn't last long. One of them would plot the death of the other. Lol.

So, Deus, what's your take? Who would be in the Hall of Villainy?

Deus Ex
I can't say. Haven't put much thought into it.

Darth Traya
Darth Traya

*Villainy: Not a "villian", per se. Doesn't kill for no reason, but quite brutal when she needs to be.
*Intellect: Extremely clever, on par with Palpatine.
*Courage: Willing to do something when she wants to do it.
*Impact: Trained some of the most powerful Sith and Jedi of all time.
*Power: Force-wise, extremely powerful. Not a lot of influence though. She admits that she is not a leader.
*Lifespan: Threatened for decades. She is about 70-80.
*Ego: Not modest, but not arrogant.
*Lackeys: Dangerous beings of terror. Look at Sion!
*Fighting Ability: Well, she was able to smash three powerful Jedi Masters around like ragdolls. Mostly stays in the dark and manipulates henchmen to do things for her.

Manipulation, machivellian and puppeteer.

Se7in
Darth Sion
*Villainy: Pretty evil, hunted down countless Jedi, faced battle with no fear, and was held together and kept alive by pure hatred
*Intellect: Not too smart, too reliant on Traya, could have been much stronger had he learned to b independent
*Courage: Very brave, faced any Jedi without fear, probably because he was near-invulnerable
*Impact: Moderate, killed many Jedi, almost bringing the destruction of the Jedi Order, and exiled Traya from Malachor bringing her to train the Exile
*Power: Unable to be killed by physical means, but rather persuasive means, was the best assassin of his time, able to fight continuously even after returning from death numerous times
*Lifespan: Could have been infinite, had it not been for the Exile's persuasion
*Ego: Arrogant yet easily swayed with words, heavily underestimated the Exile's fighting ability and his skills in speechcraft
*Lackeys: An elite group of Sith Assassins which fed off of the power of the Exile
*Fighting Ability: Easily could hold his own and often fought alongside the assassins he trained

Egotistical, invulnerable, unsatisfied.

The Overmaster
Villiany:
Revan(5)He was only evil out of necessity, and he did try to turn jedi not kill them, unless they didnt join him/her.
Nihilus(9)wiped out an entire planet just to feed, didnt care about the life on it at all, except for his Miraluka friend.
Sidious(10+) this guy gives new meaning to 'crazy-evil'.

Intellect:
Revan(10)Set up for the destruction of the 'True' Sith.
Nihilus(7)was tricked by Traya.
Sidious(10)Set up for the destruction of the Jedi.

Courage:
Revan(10)Went out to face the true Sith alone. need i say more?
Nihilus(9)was courageous only when it involved him feeding.
Sidious(5)He's a wuss.

Impact:
Revan(10)Assuming he kills the true sith or at least weakens them for a few thousand years.
Nihilus(10)nearly wiped out Jedi and he would have wiped out all life in the galaxy had he been successful in killing the exile.
Sidious(10)nearly wiped out Jedi.

Power:
Revan(10)If he went alone to destroy the 'True' Sith, he must have been pretty confident of his powers, which must of been great since his opponents were going to be the 'True' Sith.
Nihilus(10)Only if his force eating trick is unblockable to everyone other than the Exile.
Sidious(8)Matched Powers with the great Yoda.

Lifespan:
Revan(?)Not sure need to wait for KotoR III.
Nihilus(4)Died died about five years after becoming Darth Nihilus.
Sidious(8)Died and came back a few times.

Ego:
Revan(5)Not ego driven, but not ego less. S/hes there.
Nihilus(3)Doesnt seem to have much of an ego, just wants to eat.
Sidious(8)Not too egotistical, but knows when he is matched.

Lackeys:
Revan(10)Malak, Bastila, and a few hundred other sith/dark jedi, that may or may not be able to defeat the people in the movies.
Nihilus(8)Visas Marr and what remains of the sith/dark jedi from Revan's Empire, who may or may not be able to beat the ppl from the movies.
Sidious(10)Had a very colorful array of lackeys, Vader, Maul, Dooku, and some Dark Jedis.

Fighting ability:
Revan(10)Famous for being a superb duelist in his time rivaled only by Malak.
Nihilus(6)Reeked at Saber Fighting.
Sidious(8)Match the greatest saber Dueler of the time.

Total:
Revan(70)<--1st Choice Villian for me.
Nihilus(66)<--2nd choice villian for me, because he almost ate the galaxy.
Sidious(77)<--3rd Because he tricked and nearly wiped out the Jedi.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by The Overmaster
Villiany:
Revan(5)He was only evil out of necessity, and he did try to turn jedi not kill them, unless they didnt join him/her.
Nihilus(9)wiped out an entire planet just to feed, didnt care about the life on it at all, except for his Miraluka friend.
Sidious(10+) this guy gives new meaning to 'crazy-evil'.

Intellect:
Revan(10)Set up for the destruction of the 'True' Sith.
Nihilus(7)was tricked by Traya.
Sidious(10)Set up for the destruction of the Jedi.

Courage:
Revan(10)Went out to face the true Sith alone. need i say more?
Nihilus(9)was courageous only when it involved him feeding.
Sidious(5)He's a wuss.

Impact:
Revan(10)Assuming he kills the true sith or at least weakens them for a few thousand years.
Nihilus(10)nearly wiped out Jedi and he would have wiped out all life in the galaxy had he been successful in killing the exile.
Sidious(10)nearly wiped out Jedi.

Power:
Revan(10)If he went alone to destroy the 'True' Sith, he must have been pretty confident of his powers, which must of been great since his opponents were going to be the 'True' Sith.
Nihilus(10)Only if his force eating trick is unblockable to everyone other than the Exile.
Sidious(8)Matched Powers with the great Yoda.

Lifespan:
Revan(?)Not sure need to wait for KotoR III.
Nihilus(4)Died died about five years after becoming Darth Nihilus.
Sidious(8)Died and came back a few times.

Ego:
Revan(5)Not ego driven, but not ego less. S/hes there.
Nihilus(3)Doesnt seem to have much of an ego, just wants to eat.
Sidious(8)Not too egotistical, but knows when he is matched.

Lackeys:
Revan(10)Malak, Bastila, and a few hundred other sith/dark jedi, that may or may not be able to defeat the people in the movies.
Nihilus(8)Visas Marr and what remains of the sith/dark jedi from Revan's Empire, who may or may not be able to beat the ppl from the movies.
Sidious(10)Had a very colorful array of lackeys, Vader, Maul, Dooku, and some Dark Jedis.

Fighting ability:
Revan(10)Famous for being a superb duelist in his time rivaled only by Malak.
Nihilus(6)Reeked at Saber Fighting.
Sidious(8)Match the greatest saber Dueler of the time.

Total:
Revan(70)<--1st Choice Villian for me.
Nihilus(66)<--2nd choice villian for me, because he almost ate the galaxy.
Sidious(77)<--3rd Because he tricked and nearly wiped out the Jedi.

We know nothing about Nihilus's lightsabre abilities.

Deus Ex
Agreed. Any judgment on KOTOR era character's fighting ability is pure speculation.

jollyjim311
People say that Sidious is a wuss, I disagree. He just didn't need to do anything for himself. Also, I realize you will comment on him trying to run away from Yoda, but he had alot more to lose than Yoda did. Aren't Sith supposed to be fearless? Maybe we are judging bravery differently, what I mean is that he didn't look scared when he had to take on 4 Jedi Masters or when he had to fight Yoda.

Deus Ex
Dooku at least clashed with Yoda, and he had his ambitions, his title, his future and his life to lose at that moment. He even had the plans to the Death Star in his grasp, meaning the entire political movement he represented rested on him surviving that fight. And yet he still drew his blade.

Sidious, surrounded by supporters, in his own home court, armed with what are supposively greater dark side powers than Dooku and formidable saber skills who could supposively defeat the mighty Mace Windu in combat according to some.... tried to flee.

He's a wuss, period.

xxxpoppunker182
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Dooku at least clashed with Yoda, and he had his ambitions, his title, his future and his life to lose at that moment. He even had the plans to the Death Star in his grasp, meaning the entire political movement he represented rested on him surviving that fight. And yet he still drew his blade.

Sidious, surrounded by supporters, in his own home court, armed with what are supposively greater dark side powers than Dooku and formidable saber skills who could supposively defeat the mighty Mace Windu in combat according to some.... tried to flee.

He's a wuss, period.

well said very well said.

Deus Ex
Thank you.

jollyjim311
There was no reason to fight Yoda, there was too much to lose. It's not that he's not brave, it's that he's not stupid.

Deus Ex
Actually, if he was smart he would have killed Yoda himself and not relied on Clone Troopers to do it. He also would have had tighter defense surrounding himself considering a possible retaliation effort by the jedi. Sidious if anything was overconfidant and left himself open, which was stupid. And when he realized that Yoda was there and Yoda could whup his ass, he tried to flee.

Boris
Sidious, all that citeria is met to the fullest. Bad ass mothertucker.

xxxpoppunker182
Originally posted by Deus Ex
Actually, if he was smart he would have killed Yoda himself and not relied on Clone Troopers to do it. He also would have had tighter defense surrounding himself considering a possible retaliation effort by the jedi. Sidious if anything was overconfidant and left himself open, which was stupid. And when he realized that Yoda was there and Yoda could whup his ass, he tried to flee.


luke, " your over confidance is your weakness."

sids, "your faith in your friends is yours."

presisely Deus EX

Escape81
Palpatine is an extreme coward. He attempted to flee when Yoda came to confront him. Now, I will say he is not a complete coward, as he did stay and fight Yoda when he simply could've run off eventually. He is like a cornered dog. Still very dangerous and very strong. And I think you said it correct when Palpatine's 'mastery' of the Force is greater than Dooku's, Deus.

But as for Yoda 'whuppin his ass', I will disagree. Yoda didn't get close. But neither did Palpatine.

Deus Ex
Well, if they were powdered up and in a ring with a pair of sticks, Yoda would whup some ass.

Escape81
If you mean in a close-quarter lightsaber ring, where it is clear that Yoda has the obvious advantage in terms of speed and overall dueling ability, I will also agree. But put Yoda in an environment with NO blade combat, he'd lose.

Palpatine caught Yoda off guard twice during the duel. First, when he landed the first blow in the chamber, and when he blasted Yoda's saber from his hands. They say 'if you can do it once, you can do it again.'

If Yoda slips up, and he is knocked down, like he did in the chamber, Palpatine would've lit him up like a Christmas tree. Likewise, Palpatine really ought to get out of his usual reckless fighting stance and the usual tendancy to gloat.

Tru_Slice
Such loooong comments. You know Sidious was the baddest.

Escape81
Well, I think he embodies evil in its fullest. But Star Wars is home to a lot of villains. So far, however, he has been mentioned the most. Traya is a second.

Also, I was a bit interested at the comments regarding Revan. Do we have anything concrete to compare him to? Afterall, he is, in reality, a customizable video game character.

Deus Ex
We can infer a few things about his personality from what other people say about him.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Palpatine is an extreme coward. He attempted to flee when Yoda came to confront him. Now, I will say he is not a complete coward, as he did stay and fight Yoda when he simply could've run off eventually. He is like a cornered dog. Still very dangerous and very strong. And I think you said it correct when Palpatine's 'mastery' of the Force is greater than Dooku's, Deus.

But as for Yoda 'whuppin his ass', I will disagree. Yoda didn't get close. But neither did Palpatine.


Yoda didn't get close? What the hell? Yoda had Sidious about to run out of his office and had him give a sad face, okay? Yoda was DAMN close.

Escape81
No. Not really. He got close to 'beating' him. But not to a pathetic degree like what people have tried to make it out to be. Deus was picking, but there are a lot who have seriously tried to make it look like Yoda owned Palpatine. This isn't the case.

jollyjim311
Yeah, am I like the only one who thought it was close but Sids had the slight advantage?

Deus Ex
Lightsaber wise? Yoda won it. He successfully disarmed Sidious. Force wise? Well, when Yoda absorbed that last blast and actually reveresed its flow like that convinced me that Yoda is -very- capable of deal with Sidious via a Force war. Perhaps the only person who is capable. However, Sidious had one advantage and that was the environment. He held the high ground, which apparently gives you r0x00rz points, as it did Obi-Wan.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
No. Not really. He got close to 'beating' him. But not to a pathetic degree like what people have tried to make it out to be. Deus was picking, but there are a lot who have seriously tried to make it look like Yoda owned Palpatine. This isn't the case.


Sidious didn't do that much damage either. They basically were balanced with the Lightsaber fight throughout the match. Then Sidious decided to go higher to throw pods at Yoda, which I find pretty stupid. Then Yoda confronts him again and Sidious blasts him with Lightning. Yoda deflects it and blasts it back at Sidious and launches himself off the platform. Out little green fellow falls over fifty feet at the bottom and probably doesn't wanna continue fighting after falling that far and then he bolts.

Escape81
Originally posted by Sorgo
Sidious didn't do that much damage either. They basically were balanced with the Lightsaber fight throughout the match. Then Sidious decided to go higher to throw pods at Yoda, which I find pretty stupid. Then Yoda confronts him again and Sidious blasts him with Lightning. Yoda deflects it and blasts it back at Sidious and launches himself off the platform. Out little green fellow falls over fifty feet at the bottom and probably doesn't wanna continue fighting after falling that far and then he bolts.

If you're comparing him to the duel with Dooku, then I disagree. You see, (and I'm not accusing you) I have seen people dictate all the time how much Dooku dominates his master. While I disagree, I can also offer proof. Dooku -never- touched Yoda. Palpatine did, and in terms of 'damage', it was harder than Yoda hit him. Palpatine nailed him and it nearly did knock Yoda unconscious. Yoda did recover and Force-pushed Palpatine across the room, but Palpatine nearly instantly recovered.

And as for Palpatine shifting the fight to 'pods', it makes sense. You just said it. They were balanced with swords. Palpatine's goal was to survive the fight. So that would require either escaping, or knocking out Yoda, or killing him. If they weren't making progress with the blades, he'd try to tip the odds firmly in his favor.

Which were his intentions.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
If you're comparing him to the duel with Dooku, then I disagree. You see, (and I'm not accusing you) I have seen people dictate all the time how much Dooku dominates his master. While I disagree, I can also offer proof. Dooku -never- touched Yoda. Palpatine did, and in terms of 'damage', it was harder than Yoda hit him. Palpatine nailed him and it nearly did knock Yoda unconscious. Yoda did recover and Force-pushed Palpatine across the room, but Palpatine nearly instantly recovered.

And as for Palpatine shifting the fight to 'pods', it makes sense. You just said it. They were balanced with swords. Palpatine's goal was to survive the fight. So that would require either escaping, or knocking out Yoda, or killing him. If they weren't making progress with the blades, he'd try to tip the odds firmly in his favor.

Which were his intentions.


And he failed his intentions.


If Dooku lost to Yoda, And Sidious won over Yoda (Not saying that's what happened, using an example), do you really think this means that Sidious could defeat Dooku? Because he faced an opponent that defeated his current objective?


Let's elminate the circumstances from the Dooku fight.

Anakin killed Dooku, but Dooku totally served Kenobi. Does this mean Anakin can kill Kenobi? Wait a minute.... zOMG! KENOBI DEFEATED ANAKIN! TOO LATE!


Yoda knocked HIMSELF. Watch the movie again. He absorbs Sidious' lightning, blasts it back at him and Yoda's own tremendous power knocks him down to the Senate Floor. Before Yoda did this, did you see the expression on Sidious' face? Not a very victorious one.

Escape81
Palpatine's objectives were to survive the fight and continue the Empire. He did. Yoda's objective was to kill Palpatine. He did not. Yoda failed and lost.

Palpatine nailed Yoda during the initial salvo in the chamber below the Senate. YOU are referring to the end of the battle, where they were ripped apart from each other.

I am not.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Palpatine's objectives were to survive the fight and continue the Empire. He did. Yoda's objective was to kill Palpatine. He did not. Yoda failed and lost.

Palpatine nailed Yoda during the initial salvo in the chamber below the Senate. YOU are referring to the end of the battle, where they were ripped apart from each other.

I am not.


Yes, and Yoda picked his ass right back up and threw Sidious into a Chair. That would be the part where Sidious tries to run away.

Escape81
Again. This is more damage than Dooku has ever done to Yoda, and Sidious's blow was stronger than Yoda's response to it.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Again. This is more damage than Dooku has ever done to Yoda, and Sidious's blow was stronger than Yoda's response to it.

I don't think so. Sidious flew farther than Yoda did.


You didn't see Yoda trying to flee after he got shocked, by Sidious sure as hell tried to run when he got blasted across the room.


Dooku? He is irrelevant. We are talking of Yoda and Sidious.

Escape81
Well, by that notion, Sidious's Force lightning is stronger than Dooku's. He threw Mace farther than Dooku threw Anakin. You argued about the 'point blank range' ordeal. Same thing. Palpatine walked up close to Yoda, and Yoda pushed him back. When Palpatine nailed Yoda, he was farther away.

Secondly, Sorgo, recount. Take the time that Yoda was lying on his ass and compare it to when Palpatine is the same.

You will find a very noticeable difference.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Well, by that notion, Sidious's Force lightning is stronger than Dooku's. He threw Mace farther than Dooku threw Anakin. You argued about the 'point blank range' ordeal. Same thing. Palpatine walked up close to Yoda, and Yoda pushed him back. When Palpatine nailed Yoda, he was farther away.

Secondly, Sorgo, recount. Take the time that Yoda was lying on his ass and compare it to when Palpatine is the same.

You will find a very noticeable difference.


Sidious had to charge his Lightning to blast Mace out of the window. Not to mention, his figners where shaking like crazy.

Dooku barely moved his hand and fried Anakin's ass all the way into a nearby wall. If there was no wall there, imagine how far he could have gone, Escape.

Sidious also used a concentration of Lightning. Yoda used push.

Sidious ALSO tried to run his ass out of the office. Doesn't that say something?

Escape81
1. No, he fried Mace first and wanted the Koruun to experience the power of the Dark Side. Hence the one liner 'UNLIMITED POWER!'. Then, he released Mace, and blew him out the window.

2. Dooku lifted his hand, aimed it, and then fired a blast of power. Anakin was running to meet Dooku, and was very close when Dooku fired it. Dooku then tossed Anakin into a 'nearby wall'.

3. No. In fact, when Yoda pushed, it took two seconds for Palpatine to be blasted. It was not instant. Indeed, Yoda did more concentration then Palpatine.

4. Yes it does. He's a bloody coward. Still doesn't mean he's weak.

Deus Ex
OMG... stop fighting over the course of two threads. One is enough.

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2594/179530otvsw1ie.jpg

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Escape81
1. No, he fried Mace first and wanted the Koruun to experience the power of the Dark Side. Hence the one liner 'UNLIMITED POWER!'. Then, he released Mace, and blew him out the window.

2. Dooku lifted his hand, aimed it, and then fired a blast of power. Anakin was running to meet Dooku, and was very close when Dooku fired it. Dooku then tossed Anakin into a 'nearby wall'.

3. No. In fact, when Yoda pushed, it took two seconds for Palpatine to be blasted. It was not instant. Indeed, Yoda did more concentration then Palpatine.

4. Yes it does. He's a bloody coward. Still doesn't mean he's weak.

I hate it when people accuse Sidious of being a coward. He was sensible, and his being "cowardly" resulted in him ruling the galaxy. I would rather be a "coward" than be brave and be gutted by someones lightsabre.

Deus Ex
It's a guy thing.

Darth Traya
Look at it. The cowards seem to get it all. Sidious ruled the galaxy and Traya almost obliterated the force.

Escape81
I do it to placate the masses (Sorgo).

Deus Ex
Personally, cowardice means living longer, but if you're idealistic, it's anathema to your beliefs to NOT die for them. That displays the ultimate convinction.

Darth Traya
Idealism is usually flawed. Like Communism.

Sorgo
1. No, he fried Mace first and wanted the Koruun to experience the power of the Dark Side. Hence the one liner 'UNLIMITED POWER!'. Then, he released Mace, and blew him out the window.

I'd be saying unlimited power too if i had to charge someone out of a window.



2. Dooku lifted his hand, aimed it, and then fired a blast of power. Anakin was running to meet Dooku, and was very close when Dooku fired it. Dooku then tossed Anakin into a 'nearby wall'.

Mace was closer to Sidious than Anakin was to Dooku. It wasn't a nearby wall. He was smashed against it at least 15-20 feet away.

3. No. In fact, when Yoda pushed, it took two seconds for Palpatine to be blasted. It was not instant. Indeed, Yoda did more concentration then Palpatine.

It took two seconds for the Lightning to reach Yoda.

4. Yes it does. He's a bloody coward. Still doesn't mean he's weak.

No one said he was weak.

Escape81
Originally posted by Sorgo
1. No, he fried Mace first and wanted the Koruun to experience the power of the Dark Side. Hence the one liner 'UNLIMITED POWER!'. Then, he released Mace, and blew him out the window.

I'd be saying unlimited power too if i had to charge someone out of a window.



2. Dooku lifted his hand, aimed it, and then fired a blast of power. Anakin was running to meet Dooku, and was very close when Dooku fired it. Dooku then tossed Anakin into a 'nearby wall'.

Mace was closer to Sidious than Anakin was to Dooku. It wasn't a nearby wall. He was smashed against it at least 15-20 feet away.

3. No. In fact, when Yoda pushed, it took two seconds for Palpatine to be blasted. It was not instant. Indeed, Yoda did more concentration then Palpatine.

It took two seconds for the Lightning to reach Yoda.

4. Yes it does. He's a bloody coward. Still doesn't mean he's weak.

No one said he was weak.

Before I begin, let me say that Deus is correct. This argument does not belong here. So if we wish to continue, go dig up the Dooku vs Sidious thread, if there is one.

1. What? 'Unlimited Power' has nothing to do with charging someone out a window. Palpatine overloaded Mace. It is conceivable that Mace died 'before' Palpatine ejected him out the window. There was no scream and Mace was fried by a lot of power. Palpatine kept frying him to get the message across, it seems. The message was: The Dark Side owns you. And so it did.

2. 13 - 16 feet at best. And again. Dooku did it to blast Anakin out of the way. Palpatine did it for torture and for execution.

3. Like I said. When Palpatine blasted Yoda, they were farther apart when Yoda pushed Palpatine. It required that 'two seconds' for the lightning to 'reach' Yoda.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Before I begin, let me say that Deus is correct. This argument does not belong here. So if we wish to continue, go dig up the Dooku vs Sidious thread, if there is one.

1. What? 'Unlimited Power' has nothing to do with charging someone out a window. Palpatine overloaded Mace. It is conceivable that Mace died 'before' Palpatine ejected him out the window. There was no scream and Mace was fried by a lot of power. Palpatine kept frying him to get the message across, it seems. The message was: The Dark Side owns you. And so it did.

2. 13 - 16 feet at best. And again. Dooku did it to blast Anakin out of the way. Palpatine did it for torture and for execution.

3. Like I said. When Palpatine blasted Yoda, they were farther apart when Yoda pushed Palpatine. It required that 'two seconds' for the lightning to 'reach' Yoda.


No scream? What movie were you watching? Mace was screaming and had his mouth wide open while he was waiting to get blasted.

2. Good point. Dooku could have done a much more powerful blast. Maybe even more powerful that Sidious'!

3. And it required two seconds for the Push to reach Palp.

Escape81
Originally posted by Sorgo
No scream? What movie were you watching? Mace was screaming and had his mouth wide open while he was waiting to get blasted.

2. Good point. Dooku could have done a much more powerful blast. Maybe even more powerful that Sidious'!

3. And it required two seconds for the Push to reach Palp.

1. I meant when he 'fell'...

2. You don't give up. Listen, Sorgo. There is NO evidence that indicates that Count Dooku is more powerful than Palpatine. If anything, it says the reverse. You're naming off POSSIBILITIES. Well, there's a damn good chance that he COULDN'T have fired off a blast stronger than Palpatine's.

3. You don't get it... Yoda was CLOSER to Palpatine when he used the Force push. The blast did not throw him back as far. It was equal distance, and Palpatine recovered TWICE as fast as YODA did.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Escape81
1. I meant when he 'fell'...

2. You don't give up. Listen, Sorgo. There is NO evidence that indicates that Count Dooku is more powerful than Palpatine. If anything, it says the reverse. You're naming off POSSIBILITIES. Well, there's a damn good chance that he COULDN'T have fired off a blast stronger than Palpatine's.

3. You don't get it... Yoda was CLOSER to Palpatine when he used the Force push. The blast did not throw him back as far. It was equal distance, and Palpatine recovered TWICE as fast as YODA did. Damn dude, you're good.

Escape81
Originally posted by Tangible God
Damn dude, you're good.

Lol was that pity or sarcasm?

I'm not all that good. Illustrious, or Fishy, or Deus would destroy me, and I'm certain the vast majority of the people here would. But I'm just concerned about Sorgo's view of Dooku.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Lol was that pity or sarcasm?

I'm not all that good. Illustrious, or Fishy, or Deus would destroy me, and I'm certain the vast majority of the people here would. But I'm just concerned about Sorgo's view of Dooku.

Nah, you're damn good. Especially for a new person. They wouldn't floor you. Hell, I am having trouble with you! stick out tongue

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
1. I meant when he 'fell'...

2. You don't give up. Listen, Sorgo. There is NO evidence that indicates that Count Dooku is more powerful than Palpatine. If anything, it says the reverse. You're naming off POSSIBILITIES. Well, there's a damn good chance that he COULDN'T have fired off a blast stronger than Palpatine's.

3. You don't get it... Yoda was CLOSER to Palpatine when he used the Force push. The blast did not throw him back as far. It was equal distance, and Palpatine recovered TWICE as fast as YODA did.


2. You don't give up. Listen, Sorgo. There is NO evidence that indicates that Count Dooku is more powerful than Palpatine. If anything, it says the reverse. You're naming off POSSIBILITIES. Well, there's a damn good chance that he COULDN'T have fired off a blast stronger than Palpatine's.

There is no evidence that Palpatine is stronger than Dooku, besides the fact that Sidious is the Master and Dooku is the Apprentice. We have seen it in KOTOR and in some other instances that the Apprentice can sometimes be more cunning or more powerful than the Master. Most of the time, The Master is just smarter.


3. You don't get it... Yoda was CLOSER to Palpatine when he used the Force push. The blast did not throw him back as far. It was equal distance, and Palpatine recovered TWICE as fast as YODA did.


No, no, no... I don't think *YOU* get it. Sidious TRIED to run after he got blasted. Yoda replied with the Force push and Sidious wanted to Jet.

Escape81
Please. Dig up another thread...

3. You don't understand Sorgo. Palpatine's fear of Yoda is not a real indication that Yoda's blast was stronger. Kind of like bullies. Palpatine pushed Yoda. Yoda pushed back. Palpatine thought, again, that he could just wipe the floor with Yoda. He was wrong. So, he got scared, and tried to flee. But considering he just executed a brilliant scheme to rule the galaxy, I'd warrant him this. Afterall. If I was confronted with my equal on the proverbial battlefield, and I just got in a seat of power, I'd leave to. No need for risks.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Please. Dig up another thread...

3. You don't understand Sorgo. Palpatine's fear of Yoda is not a real indication that Yoda's blast was stronger. Kind of like bullies. Palpatine pushed Yoda. Yoda pushed back. Palpatine thought, again, that he could just wipe the floor with Yoda. He was wrong. So, he got scared, and tried to flee. But considering he just executed a brilliant scheme to rule the galaxy, I'd warrant him this. Afterall. If I was confronted with my equal on the proverbial battlefield, and I just got in a seat of power, I'd leave to. No need for risks.


Oh my god....


He knew Yoda might have killed him and ruined his plan. So he ran. Why didn't he just run after he blasted Yoda with Lightning? Come on now.

Escape81
You're not reading.

1. PLEASE USE ANOTHER THREAD. That way, I can respond without repeating this message, and without making it look like I don't have a response.

2. Precisely. You understand. Yoda might have killed him and ruined his plan. Which is why he ran. Actually, his plan was already finished. But now I suspect he wanted to enjoy it. Recall that Luke stated clearly. Palpatine's greatest weakness is his over-confidence. He nailed Yoda good, and Yoda recovered and pushed back. Showing Palpatine that Yoda wasn't powerless, and wasn't easily beaten. So, faced with the possibility of dying, like he nearly did with Mace, he tried to flee. But only when he couldn't, did he fight back. When he blasted Yoda, he thought that he could take him. Until Yoda pushed back. Then he wasn't so sure.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
You're not reading.

1. PLEASE USE ANOTHER THREAD. That way, I can respond without repeating this message, and without making it look like I don't have a response.

2. Precisely. You understand. Yoda might have killed him and ruined his plan. Which is why he ran. Actually, his plan was already finished. But now I suspect he wanted to enjoy it. Recall that Luke stated clearly. Palpatine's greatest weakness is his over-confidence. He nailed Yoda good, and Yoda recovered and pushed back. Showing Palpatine that Yoda wasn't powerless, and wasn't easily beaten. So, faced with the possibility of dying, like he nearly did with Mace, he tried to flee. But only when he couldn't, did he fight back. When he blasted Yoda, he thought that he could take him. Until Yoda pushed back. Then he wasn't so sure.

So we agree. Kind of...

Escape81
Regarding Palpatine's fear of Yoda? Yes.

Regarding Dooku's supposed superiority of Palpatine? No.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Escape81
Regarding Palpatine's fear of Yoda? Yes.

Regarding Dooku's supposed superiority of Palpatine? No.



Only a superiority of certain things.

Let me break it down.


Sidious and Dooku comparisons! YAY!


Force powers: N/A: We haven't seen proof and have counter-attacked the fact that Dooku and Sidious may be on par with Force. Sidious is probably better, but actions in the movie have made some people uncertain of that.

Swordfighting: It has almost been widely confirmed that Dooku is the greater swordsman. Well, at least a whole shitload majority think he is.

Intelligence and Manipulation: This one goes to Sidious. He foiled Dooku's plan and killed him.

Fear: IMHO, I think certain aspects made them fear each other.


Dooku knew of Sidious' plan and power, and feared the fact that if he defied him, he may risk getting manipulated or trapped.

Sidious may have had a fear of his apprentice killing him. Dooku was a powerful man and he also lead his own army. Sidious may have feared that Dooku may foil his great plan, being why he had him killed.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.