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i know very little on these guys so tell me who wins and please give me some info on these guys.

Done before, by me, I belive.

Anyway, Kyp wins. He was commonly stated as second only to Luke.

i searched kyle katarn and didnt see it.

I don't know, I think Kyle has a chance. Obi-Wan said Anakin was stronger than him, yet he defeated him. I think Kyp would win, with trouble, but Katarn still has a chance.

Remember what Kyle did to Jaden in JKA?

Hell no.

Katarn has this in the bag.

What did Kyle do to Jaden that has any effect on this fight?

Beat up a padawan? ooo... What a man!

When did Kyle beat up Jaden?

I have no clue. I was just kidding. I never beat Jedi Academy because it was too much of the same. Multiplayer was okay though.

Wow, there is alot of Kyp and Kyle threads at the moment. And they all begin with K.

Speaking of Special K....

This is like Mace(Kyp) vs. Obi-wan(Kyle). Similar to fighting Dooku, Obi-wan would be crushed against Mace.

Need your fiber?

Originally posted by Se7in
When did Kyle beat up Jaden?

Uhhh...Kyle goes Shaft on Jaden, and uses the force to through Jaden across a football-sized room.

If you go to the darkside in JKA, you battle Kyle and that happens.

Phew, didn't think I'd make it.........almost ran out of fibre.

Yeah, but what's the canonical ending of JKA now?

Potential and youth is nothing. The guys who have the experience are the ones who win.

Kyle has plenty of it.

Not the Darkside one.

Hint: Its the lightside one.

What?!

Have you even played the game?

Your dude goes to the darkside, and after beating Tavion and stealing the sceptor (*spoiler*), Kyle comes in and tries to talk you out of it.

Then you battle. And it is a good battle.

That is a possible ending, but he doesn't canonly go darkside.

And why does defeating a padawan help Kyle against Pimp Master Durron?

Jaden was a Jedi Knight at the time of the battle.

Don't forget, Jaden was better than most of the jedi at the time.

Which, most of the jedi sucked. ANd it IS a video game. TEchnically Bastila Shan level 40 can wipe the floor with Malak. Doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by Tru_Slice
Jaden was a Jedi Knight at the time of the battle.

Don't forget, Jaden was better than most of the jedi at the time.

Big deal. Jaden would be FLOORED by Kyp. Kyp has defeated Luke before.

Yeah, I'm sure that Kyp would PWN Jaden, but that's not my point.

It's Kudos to the guy wih the most experience here, and that is Kyle.

Kyp defeated hundreds, if not thousands of Yuuzhan Vong while Kyle was rotting away in jail. Kyp defeated everyone else in sparring. He has control over black holes for pete sake. Kyle is pwned.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Which, most of the jedi sucked. ANd it IS a video game. TEchnically Bastila Shan level 40 can wipe the floor with Malak. Doesn't make it so. Wow, didn't think you could go up that high.

You can in KOTOR II. Bastila Shan mod... level 40 or 50 cap. And you can import Malak's model and fight his ass in the arena mod.

I really gotta play KOTOR II.

For PC anyways... Then you can mod it up.

I have more fun modding the game than playing it.

Definately.

Here I show my Computer-Ignorance............................mod?

Modification to the game.

Ah.

ya kyp would win this

I think Kyp wins, but i don't think he wins it by a lot if we use the Jedi Knight series as a reference. In that, Luke is nowhere close to the power that Kyle has, Kyle also took Desann, someone Luke couldn't touch, True, Kyp beat Luke, but he had help from a Sith Lord. I think Kyp wins because he's younger, though that's no knock on Kyle's experience

Crap this is a good battle, really hard But i think kyp would win this.

Kyle Katarn would demolish kyp easy!!!!!!he's bin to the valley of the jedi
chair

Well...
I think Kyle would defeat Kyp.

Kyle:
- was one of the best mercenaries in the Galaxy before becoming a force user
- he did basically destroy the entire Dark Trooper project on his own (killing several hundrets of stormtroopers, officers and even some Dark Troopers in the process).
- in "Jedi Knight" he developed swordfighting abilities and force skills good enough to defeat 7 Dark Jedi one of them being trained by Jucasta Nu, Vader and the Emperor himself (Jerec) - and he did that without real Jedi training (again wasting hundrets of opponents in the process) - note that he cut Jerec's connection to the force, something that we have only seen Nomi Sunrider doing before as a single person.
- he went to the Dark Side in MOTS
- after that he returned to his mercenary live for some amount of time and he was using some "bloodthirsty" tactics during that time period (destroying an entire imperial base on Tatooine - only one survivor)
- in "Jedi Knight II" he defeated Desann (who did "defeated" Luke before) and his army of Dark Jedi - and he stepped into the Valley of the Jedi's core energy beam which should actually have given him some force powers
- when Jaden Korr wents Dark Side in Jedi Academy Kyle throws him through an entire room and Jaden isn't even able to kill Kyle when using his own powers and Ragnos' szepter against him.
- during NJO times he defeated one of the Emperors hand

Well...Kyle has much more experience when it comes to fighting (or fighting force users) compared to Kyp and considering the fact that he became good enough in the force to defeat some Dark Jedi without training he must have a noticeable amount of force potential. Combine that with his combat training and the experience from his career as a mercenary and I guess that would be enough to defeat Kyp (although Kyp might have a greater potential or at least better force powers).

Originally posted by truejedi
I think Kyp wins, but i don't think he wins it by a lot if we use the Jedi Knight series as a reference. In that, Luke is nowhere close to the power that Kyle has, Kyle also took Desann, someone Luke couldn't touch, True, Kyp beat Luke, but he had help from a Sith Lord. I think Kyp wins because he's younger, though that's no knock on Kyle's experience


the whole luke not being able to touch dessan has been discussewd before and no luke would take him but he wanted to redeem him not kill him. just pointing that out. and still i say kyp would win

Originally posted by Borbarad
Well...
I think Kyle would defeat Kyp.

I disagree.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyle:
- was one of the best mercenaries in the Galaxy before becoming a force user

Kyle has the advantage here.

Originally posted by Borbarad
- he did basically destroy the entire Dark Trooper project on his own (killing several hundrets of stormtroopers, officers and even some Dark Troopers in the process).

Kyp took out hundreds, if not thousands of Yuuzhan Vong, which are more capable than a Stormtrooper and probably about equal to a Phase One Dark Trooper, in one-on-one combat.

Originally posted by Borbarad
- in "Jedi Knight" he developed swordfighting abilities and force skills good enough to defeat 7 Dark Jedi one of them being trained by Jucasta Nu, Vader and the Emperor himself (Jerec) - and he did that without real Jedi training (again wasting hundrets of opponents in the process) - note that he cut Jerec's connection to the force, something that we have only seen Nomi Sunrider doing before as a single person.

Kyp was able to knock Luke out of his body with only two weeks of training. Luke at this time could have defeated any of the people Kyle defeated.

Originally posted by Borbarad
- he went to the Dark Side in MOTS

Kyp went Darkside too. Why does this matter?

Originally posted by Borbarad
- after that he returned to his mercenary live for some amount of time and he was using some "bloodthirsty" tactics during that time period (destroying an entire imperial base on Tatooine - only one survivor)

Kyp killed billions of stormtroopers in search of his brother. He took out an ISD by himself. He also took control of a black hole to fight the Vong. I'll put that above taking out an Imperial Base.

Originally posted by Borbarad
- in "Jedi Knight II" he defeated Desann (who did "defeated" Luke before) and his army of Dark Jedi - and he stepped into the Valley of the Jedi's core energy beam which should actually have given him some force powers

Kyp could have done the same thing. Kyp also defeated Luke. Also, Luke wasn't trying his hardest as far as I could tell.

Originally posted by Borbarad
- when Jaden Korr wents Dark Side in Jedi Academy Kyle throws him through an entire room and Jaden isn't even able to kill Kyle when using his own powers and Ragnos' szepter against him.

The Darkside ending isn't canon and doesn't mean much. Tavion wasn't able to defeat Jaden when using Ragnos' Scepter. This was also after the Scepter had spent energy summoning Ragnos.

Originally posted by Borbarad
- during NJO times he defeated one of the Emperors hand

Small talk. Kyp could have wasted any of them.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Well...Kyle has much more experience when it comes to fighting (or fighting force users) compared to Kyp and considering the fact that he became good enough in the force to defeat some Dark Jedi without training he must have a noticeable amount of force potential. Combine that with his combat training and the experience from his career as a mercenary and I guess that would be enough to defeat Kyp (although Kyp might have a greater potential or at least better force powers).

Kyp took out Luke in just two weeks. Also, may I remind you that Kyp has been canonly stated as the second best in the NJO. This puts him above Kyle, you can't argue it.

If i remember rightly, in one of the NJO books, Luke actually states that Kyp is STRONGER than him in the force. Whether he's tapped all his potential i don't know, but i reckon if Kyp tried hard enough, and opened himself up to the full power of the force, he could take even Luke in a force-to-force battle. And Kyp would take Kyle - he's much harder, and while Kyle has more experience, Kyp has probably surpassed him as a jedi, and reached heights of the force that Kyle could never get to, what with this whole "unifying force" ideal.

Pent

It was actually Kyp saying he was stronger than Luke, but he later realized that was his own arrogance.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Kyp took out hundreds, if not thousands of Yuuzhan Vong, which are more capable than a Stormtrooper and probably about equal to a Phase One Dark Trooper, in one-on-one combat.

Normal YV's are said to be 4 times as powerful as a normal soldier. Dark Troopers are said to be 10 times as powerful as a normal soldier. And Kyle destroyed Dark Troopers before being able to use the force.
And - just to remind me - where did Kyp destroy hundreds or thousands of YV's in direct confrontation ? Only thing that spontaneously enters my mind is that he wasn't able to defeat a single YV slayer. (I don't want to question your word - I'm simply not remembering it.)



Sorry Glentract but that is simply wrong. Kyp and Exar Kun's spirit together where able to do that and it's even said that Luke would have been able to block the attack if only one of the two would have attacked him. Kyle was able to cut Jerec's connection to the force after having - no - force training at all and using the force for some weeks at max.



He did the first two things using the Sun Hammer while Kyle did it in direct combat.



Kyp didn't took out Luke on his own.

Yes Kyp is said to be the second best in the NJO (so he's better than Jacen, Jaina and Anakin ?) - the second best in what ? Force powers, lightsaber combat, fighting in general ?

And Kyle has been stated to be the foremost battlemaster of the NJO which might only be because of his experience but experience is the key in many fights and we know that somebody with more experience is able to take out a stronger opponent (Obi-Wan vs Anakin) - and when it comes down to direct confrontation Kyle has far more experience than Kyp.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Normal YV's are said to be 4 times as powerful as a normal soldier. Dark Troopers are said to be 10 times as powerful as a normal soldier. And Kyle destroyed Dark Troopers before being able to use the force.
And - just to remind me - where did Kyp destroy hundreds or thousands of YV's in direct confrontation ? Only thing that spontaneously enters my mind is that he wasn't able to defeat a single YV slayer. (I don't want to question your word - I'm simply not remembering it.)

How many Dark Troopers did Kyle kill exactly? It wasn't a lot in any case. Kyp was leading many battles in the NJO on the frontline. I can't remember the actual planet names(I read the NJO as it came out, book by book, so it's been a few years), but he killed a lot in melee, more than Kyle by a large margin.


Originally posted by Borbarad
Sorry Glentract but that is simply wrong. Kyp and Exar Kun's spirit together where able to do that and it's even said that Luke would have been able to block the attack if only one of the two would have attacked him. Kyle was able to cut Jerec's connection to the force after having - no - force training at all and using the force for some weeks at max.

I would like to see where that was canonly stated, supershadow won't work as a source. Kyp was acting under his own will when he did that, it's stated in "I, Jedi". Exar did teach him, but he did not control him.

Originally posted by Borbarad
He did the first two things using the Sun Hammer while Kyle did it in direct combat.

Not trying to sound picky, but it was the Sun Crusher. There was the Arc Hammer, but that was a research station. And, I was showing that Kyp has been shown as more ruthless than Kyle, not showing Kyp is more powerful in that statement.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyp didn't took out Luke on his own.

Exar may have had some small part, but it was later explained in "I, Jedi" that Kyp was acting under his own will and power when he did that.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes Kyp is said to be the second best in the NJO (so he's better than Jacen, Jaina and Anakin ?) - the second best in what ? Force powers, lightsaber combat, fighting in general ?

Second best overall, including force powers and lightsaber combat. Yes, better than the Solo's.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And Kyle has been stated to be the foremost battlemaster of the NJO which might only be because of his experience but experience is the key in many fights and we know that somebody with more experience is able to take out a stronger opponent (Obi-Wan vs Anakin) - and when it comes down to direct confrontation Kyle has far more experience than Kyp.

Kyp has as much experince as him, or at least near it, as does Kam Solusar amoung other. Obi-wan was more of a smart thinker and Anakin was a blind fool. Experince wasn't what did it for Obi-wan, is was brain power. Kyle doesn't have this advantage over Kyp.

Obi-wan vs. Anakin is a bad example because Obi-wan knew every technique that Anakin knew, while Kyle won't know everything Kyp does.

In any case, Kyp has near, or greater experince than Kyle.


Also, Kyle feared the Darkside. And, I have confirmation that the Lightside ending of JA is canon, because Jaden Korr and Jan reasued him from the Cloak of the Sith years after the Jedi Academy game.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
How many Dark Troopers did Kyle kill exactly? It wasn't a lot in any case. Kyp was leading many battles in the NJO on the frontline. I can't remember the actual planet names(I read the NJO as it came out, book by book, so it's been a few years), but he killed a lot in melee, more than Kyle by a large margin.

Why does it matter how many Dark Troopers Kyle did kill ? He was able to defeat things that are supposed to be more powerful than a YV - and that in times where he wasn't able to use the force.

Kyp did lead a lot of battles but that doesn't mean he personally killed hundreds or thousands of YVs in direct combat and I guess that Kyle has led some battles too considering the fact that he's said to be the NJOs foremost battlemaster.



It's said in the Jedi Academy trilogy that Luke was defeated by the combined power of Exar Kun's spirit (who was still able to toast one of Luke's students with force lightning) and Kyp. I never said that Exar was controlling Kyp - but he was helping him.



You're right. Sorry.



More ruthless than somebody who's actions are considered to be "bloodthirsty" ? I know what Kyp did but he was doing it because he wanted revenge. Kyle did just whipe out that imperial base because of his bloodthirst. He had no reason to kill those people and it's even said that he almost always deliberately searched human targets to kill during his missions. That was the reason he didn't use the force between MOTS and JK II.



A "small part" ? I wouldn't call an attack by somebody that can force choke 12 people at once and is able to completely toast a force user - despite the fact that he was only a spirit - a "small part".



Kyle stepped into the core beam of the Valley of the Jedi - something that was able to create an entire army of Dark Jedi. Don't you think he must have some considerable force powers ?



Kyp is a hothead just like Anakin is despite the fact that he is in his 30s during NJO times. Kyle seems to be more calm well he must be more than 50 years old in NJO times.



How is that possible ? Kyle was already an experienced mercenary and participated in the Galactic Civil War when Kyp was still working on Kessel. He started to use the force at least 5 years before Kyp was discovered and for all we know he had much more fighting experience than Kyp. So how would Kyp have near or even greater experience compared to somebody who is 20 or even 30 years older and has seen much more battles ?



Kyle feared to fall to the Dark Side but this didn't stop him to kill Dark Siders in direct combat - something that Kyp has never done so far.

And I just mentioned that scene to show what Kyle is able to do. If the Dark Side ending of KotoR II would be canon (the Exile killing the masters on Dantooine on his own) would that mean that Kreia won't be able any longer to instakill Jedi Masters because she would have never done it ?

Glentract, Kyp is said to be second to Luke and the Solo children, Jacen and Jaina.

I agree with the general comparison to 'Anakin vs. Obi-Wan' going on, however. Anakin was said to be one of the most powerful beings alive during the Saga Era. Obi-Wan too was a highly respected negotiator and surprisingly, a ferocious warrior. Now, Kenobi himself considered Anakin to be his superior, and in terms of power, Skywalker was. But he highly underestimated his opponent, and overestimated his own abilities. A trait possessed by Kyp in abundance.

And must I brinmg up the fact that he was unable to defeat in single combat a lone Slayer, while Jacen himself killed two. Even Jaina was able to kill one, and daze another. hell, Luke killed seven. So much for second best.

I personally think that Durron has a slight advantage in terms of raw power. But Kyle, who's achievements Borbarad highlighted nicely, is no sluch in any department himself, be it dueling ability (seven Dark Jedi, Jerec, Desaan), Force abilities (the core-room), and tactical profiecency (slaughtering dozens, even hundreds of Stormtroopers, and several Dark Troopers). I think his experience and profound comabt ability gives him an excellent chance against Kyp.

And I just mentioned that scene to show what Kyle is able to do. If the Dark Side ending of KotoR II would be canon (the Exile killing the masters on Dantooine on his own) would that mean that Kreia won't be able any longer to instakill Jedi Masters because she would have never done it ?

Very nice. Actually, this point has never yet been been brought up. Well said.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh. Can Boba Fett do that ? At least Boba Fett lost in a shoot out against Kyle.

Don't take any offense or anything, but '?' has a space before it.

Anyway, yes, Boba could. Easily even. When he was young(20 or so) he was confronted by 30 pirates and could have killed them, but chose not to because he was afraid his bounty would die in the process. Now, you're telling me that Boba lost to Kyle, but I would like to see when this happened and if he really lost or just left.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyle maybe slaughtered hundrets of persons with a lightsaber. He faced enough opponents aimed with melee weapons (Ghamorrean guards, Tusken etc.), some monster like creatures and even opponents who were force users fighting with lightsabers (Desanns Dark Jedi, Desann himself, Jerecs followers and Jerec himself). And since you yourself always stated that a "real combat situation" benefits you more than sparring - Kyle has much more experience in fighting force users (and real fighting) compared to Kyp.

So fighting people who's blades can't resist a lightsaber strike and then a few people who's can outweigh's fighting a greater number of more powerful people all of whom can resist a lightsaber strike? Yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Really ? I was somehow under the impression that Kyle freed all human captives on Ord Sedra and was one of the persons that developed strategies to counter the Vong. And he was sitting in a cell during the most of the YV War ? Since you say that Jan and Jaden rescued him you must be refering to Kyle being captured by Daye Azur-Jamin but that was after the YV war.

You right on this. He did come up with that. Reguarless, that's still several years after the Vong War that Kyp has over him. And did Kyle participate in any other battles, or was it just one? Kyp fought in a lot more than one battle, giving him a lot more combat time.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Now you give him even more practice in doing lightsaber vs lightsaber fights and use that as an argument against him being able to defeat Kyp ?

Notice how he trained Jaden and Rosh. Did he ever once spar against them? Nope, he didn't. Unless you can prove that he did, then as far as I'm concerned, he didn't.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Why you keep on with that "controlling" stuff ? I never said that Exar did control someone...

What I mean by controlling as adding his power to theirs. He obviously didn't have any power to spare by that point. He taught them and influenced them, but never controlled or fought alongside them.

Originally posted by Borbarad
As it appears in the Jedi Academy trilogy Kun didn't need "rest". He did seduce students, toasted Gantoris, knocked out Dorsk 81, destroyed Luke's holocron, helped Kyp to take Luke out, sent beast to attack Skywalkers body, created an illusion to "use" Streen and force choked all of Luke's students at once. He had some power.

Gantorius was consumed by the Darkside, Kun had little to do with it. Dorsk had maybe three hours of actual training time, yep, that's impressive. Kun destroyed a little box. Whoopie. My dog can do the same thing, does that make him powerful enough to choke people with his mind? He didn't supply the power to defeat Luke. I can kick a horse in the butt and it will move, so I guess that makes me powerful. Streen was an old gas prospector so that shouldn't be very hard. When did he choke all of Luke's nearly untrained students? I want some page numbers.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And it's stated in the Jedi Academy trilogy that Exar directly attacked Luke together with Kyp and he actually did do much of the work.

No it isn't. On what exact page does it say Kun did much of the work.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And when "I, Jedi" contradicts the things shown in the Jedi Academy trilogy I will stick to the latter one since it was written by Kevin J. Anderson who actually invented Kun and his entire background story.

Hahaha! Just because Kevin invernted him doesn't give him precedence for what happens concerning that character. If JA IMPLIES something and another books actually STATES something else, the book that made the statement outweighs what was implied in another books.

So, Exar did help, but he NEVER did much of the work. It was Kyp's power and Kun's teachings, not Kun's actual power.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyle feared to fall to the Darkside because of his bloodthirst and therefore he cut his own force connection off after MOTS (well...that requires some knowledge) and restored it in JK II by stepping into the core beam of the Valley of the Jedi. He did not fear the Dark Side itself he feared falling to it - that's a difference.

Doesn't give him much of an advantage over Kyp.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Exar did force choke all of Luke's students at once. That were 10 or 12 people. And Gantoris tried to attack Exar after having realized that Exar "used" him. In that moment Gantoris wasn't a "Dark Sider" any longer - Exar simply electrocuted him.

Gantorius still was a Dark Sider. He still had free will and chose the path of the Darkside, Kun only opened the road for him to go there. It wasn't Kun's strength that destroyed Gantorius. I want a page number for when all the students were choked.

Originally posted by Borbarad
The Valley of the Jedi is a well of immense force powers. It's able to turn pretty "normal" people into Jedi instantly. In JK it's said to be able to turn a force user into a pretty much invincible being. So Kyle by stepping into the core beam and being a considerable good force user before doing it must have had some huge amount of force powers.

If Kyle had accepted the power then it would be a different story. Kyle didn't take the power for himself though, he released it back into the Living Force, ensuring it would never be at risk of being used by the Darkside.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyle changed pretty much after going through Jedi training under Luke - he was able to control the "darker" aspects of his character. And Kyp being as calm as Luke himself ? Hard to believe.

Believe it, it's true.

Originally posted by Borbarad
If you want to look at it like this, Kyle was using the force for more than a decade before Kyp was born.

What exactly is Kyle's age?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Now you want to contradict yourself by saying that training in the Academy is better than real fighting ? Nice.
Still Kyle start using the force "controlled" 6 or 7 years before Kyp did it and he wasn't sitting in a cell for 5 years.

Yes, Kyle did sit in a cell for a considerable length of time.

Now, before you start trying to twist my words, listen up a bit. No one is going to get better in the force unless they fight like a force user rather than a mercenary.

Kyle didn't start really training in the force until he began attending the Jedi Academy. Before that, it was all non-force skills, giving Kyp more time using the in a ocntrolled way.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyp warded off Kun's spirit ? When ? Kyp did never try to confront Kun's spirit and if he had done this Kun would have crushed him. And Kyp did never have a "real" fight against another force user trying to kill him as far as we can tell.

You really need to check your info and stop spewing a bunch of crap. Corran Horn specifically stated that Kyp warded off Kun's influence and went to the Darkside with the intent of destroying evil, just as Ulic did 4000 years earlier.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Glentract you are exaggerating. Luke in ROTJ was nowhere close to be able to take down an infinite number of stormtroopers.

You missed my point perhaps. Just because it is possible for something to happen in a game, unless it is canonical, it is a mute point. Janus has a better explanation on this than I do, but trust me, gameplay experince is irrelevent.

Originally posted by Borbarad
And it doesn't matter which ending is the canon one because we are talking about "abilities" here. Does the Exile not have the ability to kill the Jedi Masters in KotoR II because the lightside ending is "canon" and therefore he never did it ?

Now you're being illogical. According to the video game, Luke can kill an infinite number of Stormtroopers. He has the ability to, but canonly, he can't.

Originally posted by Borbarad
To show you a better example for what I'm trying to explain: Couldn't Kyle have absorbed the power of the Valley of the Jedi because the lightside ending of JK is canon ? What should have hindered him to do so considering the fact that he was standing around there alone and simply had to decide if he wants to take the power or not ?
See what I mean ?

But he CANONLY didn't, so it doesn't matter.

To show you a better example for what I'm trying to explain:
I could have become George Bush five minutes ago, but I didn't.
See what I mean?

Originally posted by Borbarad
And he threw Jaden across the entire room. No...it doesn't outweigh Kyp's ability to control a black hole but where would that ability help him in a normal fight ?

Do you understand the amount of energy in a black hole and the amount of energy that would be required to control one?

The energy of an entire star is contained in a black hole. If Kyp can control this, he must have an amount of energy avaliable from the force approaching that of a star. That is FAR GREATER than ANY demonstration of power Kyle has EVER shown.

Trust me, someone who can alter a black hole can push you a lot harder than Kyle pushing Jaden.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Anyway, yes, Boba could. Easily even. When he was young(20 or so) he was confronted by 30 pirates and could have killed them, but chose not to because he was afraid his bounty would die in the process. Now, you're telling me that Boba lost to Kyle, but I would like to see when this happened and if he really lost or just left.

Dark Forces. General Mohc hired Boba Fett to kill Kyle but Kyle bested him on Coruscant.



Just to quote Janus: Absence of proof is no proof of absence. I don't see any reason for Kyle not participating in the frontline action against the YV's. And still Kyp won't have more combat time compared to Kyle.



Yes. Being a lightsaber and combat instructor and training Padawans can perfectly be done without sparing with them even once. Come on, Glentract.



Directly contradicting the book because he helped Kyp to lift the Sun Crusher from Yavin.



Wrong. He left the Dark Side and therefore he wanted to destroy Kun and because of that Kun did kill him. Consumed by the Dark Side ? Yes...suddenly the Dark Sides "consumes" people using it and leaving nothing more than some burned meat. Sure...



Yes. According to yourself the events shown in the JA trilogy must have happened over months because Kun needed resting time but Dorsk only had 3 hours of traing. Alright.



Wow. Your dog can destroy objects with his force powers. Impressive.



You are contradicting the books. It's as simple as that.



Right before getting annihilated by their combined powers (and Luke + Vodo) and two lightsabers. And why should I give you page numbers since you don't bother to read, hmm ?



Yes. It does. At least until the point where Stackpole is revealed to be Lucas' alter ego.



JA does not imply things that are stated in another book later.
JA implies that Exar is helping Kyp and that he has some considerable amount of power. "I, Jedi" is simply contradicting the JA books and therefore wrong.



Kun did attack Luke with his own force powers and just because of that Luke was defeated. Period.



Again wrong. Gantoris wanted to fight against Kun and therefore he had to die. It's as simple as that. Really.



WTF ? The Valley was still used by Desann after Kyle visited to create his army of Dark Jedi.



It's not told. But it is told that Kyle has gone through imperial training and become a stormtrooper and then a spy. So he must be at least some years older than Luke during ANH - somewhere near his middle 20s. Going by this he's in his 50s during the YV invasion.



Years ? They let him sit in a cell for years after the YV invasion. Hardly.



Come on...skills like force push, heal, lightning and so on that can be learned in the game are "non-force" skills ?



Kun's influence but he never did face Kun's force powers. And great...all students except Gantoris were able to ward off Kun's influence. That's really a great thing to do - not falling to the Dark Side. Hell...millions of Jedi have done it before.



Gameplay experience is different from "ability" to do something. For example the Exile could have stealthed through the entire Trayus academy and therefore you can't say that he killed anyone in the Academy (gameplay) but he still had the ability to do it.

Kyle's ability to force push Jaden across the entire room is still there even if it did never happen as well as Kreia's ability to kill people with her special attack would still be there even though it never happened. They have the ability to do something and they aren't influenced through the choices the player's character makes except for the point that this things did happen or not.

See it like this: Is there any reason why Kyle can only push a dark side Jaden through the room and can't do the same thing with a lightside Jaden ?



Does the statement: "Kyle has the ability to force push Jaden through a room" contradict any canon source ? No. Does "Luke can waste infinite amount of stormtroopers" do it ? Yes.



Canonly nothing of the EU ever happened so why you throw the term "canon" in here every two seconds ? The idea that Kyle has the ability to force push Jaden doesn't contradict the lightside ending of the game because Kyle's ability to do that can't be affected by choices the player makes.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Dark Forces. General Mohc hired Boba Fett to kill Kyle but Kyle bested him on Coruscant.

Just like Jaden did? He fought him off, he didn't defeat him. Then again, Lando fought Boba off to.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Just to quote Janus: Absence of proof is no proof of absence. I don't see any reason for Kyle not participating in the frontline action against the YV's. And still Kyp won't have more combat time compared to Kyle.

Let me add it up. Kyp had 17 years combat. Kyle had something like 22 years. Then, in training, Kyp gets another eight years non-combat and Kyle gets something like 4. That gives Kyle a one year advantage the way you commonly look at it.

Even if we look at it my way, which is more favorable for Kyle, then Kyle has only four years more than him. Not much, really.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes. Being a lightsaber and combat instructor and training Padawans can perfectly be done without sparing with them even once. Come on, Glentract.

There were droids shown as sparring parnets in the game. And yes, he probably did kill a few of them, but does that really matter? Kyp sparred many people too.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Directly contradicting the book because he helped Kyp to lift the Sun Crusher from Yavin.

I said control or fight alongside. Not help move the Sun Crusher. You also should know that Sun Crusher was moved by might in the force. Kyp and Kun moved the controls and flew it out, they didn't pull it out with their might in the force.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Wrong. He left the Dark Side and therefore he wanted to destroy Kun and because of that Kun did kill him. Consumed by the Dark Side ? Yes...suddenly the Dark Sides "consumes" people using it and leaving nothing more than some burned meat. Sure...

He was already burning. Kun aided the process. In anycase, not a lot of energy is needed against a person who is already on the Darkside. Corran Horn almost had the same thing happen to him when he absorbed the energy from a pool of boiling water.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes. According to yourself the events shown in the JA trilogy must have happened over months because Kun needed resting time but Dorsk only had 3 hours of traing. Alright.

It took place over about six weeks. Yes, Dorsk only got a small amount of personal training, Luke spent almost all of his time training Kyp when Kyp first got there.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. Your dog can destroy objects with his force powers. Impressive.

Yeah, it sure is.

Originally posted by Borbarad
You are contradicting the books. It's as simple as that.

How am I contradicting the books. You said that Kun got a beast to attack Luke. I can do the same thing with a horse.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Right before getting annihilated by their combined powers (and Luke + Vodo) and two lightsabers. And why should I give you page numbers since you don't bother to read, hmm ?

Now you're just being a loser. No need to insult me.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes. It does. At least until the point where Stackpole is revealed to be Lucas' alter ego.

The Essential Guide to Character's also indicates what Stackpole said. Stop making excuses.

Originally posted by Borbarad
JA does not imply things that are stated in another book later.
JA implies that Exar is helping Kyp and that he has some considerable amount of power. "I, Jedi" is simply contradicting the JA books and therefore wrong.

The Essential Guide's agree with "I, Jedi". The JA books are wrong.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kun did attack Luke with his own force powers and just because of that Luke was defeated. Period.

lmao! You don't have any proof of this.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Again wrong. Gantoris wanted to fight against Kun and therefore he had to die. It's as simple as that. Really.

Prove up.

Originally posted by Borbarad
WTF ? The Valley was still used by Desann after Kyle visited to create his army of Dark Jedi.

He used it as a Force Nexus, but was no longer able to draw upon the power of the thousands of trapped Jedi.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Years ? They let him sit in a cell for years after the YV invasion. Hardly.

Yes, they did.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Come on...skills like force push, heal, lightning and so on that can be learned in the game are "non-force" skills ?

sure.


Originally posted by Borbarad
Gameplay experience is different from "ability" to do something. For example the Exile could have stealthed through the entire Trayus academy and therefore you can't say that he killed anyone in the Academy (gameplay) but he still had the ability to do it.

This is sad. Unless he canonly snuck through it, he didn't. Unless something was canonly done, it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Kyle's ability to force push Jaden across the entire room is still there even if it did never happen as well as Kreia's ability to kill people with her special attack would still be there even though it never happened. They have the ability to do something and they aren't influenced through the choices the player's character makes except for the point that this things did happen or not.

So ROTJ Luke has the ability to kill an unlimited number of storm troopers? No, but it is still something that is possible to be done in a video game. This is what I was accusing you of doing, accepting information only that suits your ends.

Originally posted by Borbarad
See it like this: Is there any reason why Kyle can only push a dark side Jaden through the room and can't do the same thing with a lightside Jaden ?

It may be true, but it won't be enough to stop Kyp.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Does the statement: "Kyle has the ability to force push Jaden through a room" contradict any canon source ? No. Does "Luke can waste infinite amount of stormtroopers" do it ? Yes.

Can Luke kill them with fist, yes.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Canonly nothing of the EU ever happened so why you throw the term "canon" in here every two seconds ? The idea that Kyle has the ability to force push Jaden doesn't contradict the lightside ending of the game because Kyle's ability to do that can't be affected by choices the player makes.

Canonly all of the EU works unless in it contradicts the movies or a higher source. The books are a higher source than the game. The books show the LS ending in JA, since they are a higher level of canon, that is the true ending.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Just like Jaden did? He fought him off, he didn't defeat him. Then again, Lando fought Boba off to.

As far as I remember it Boba attacked Kyle, Kyle shoots him out of the sky. So he defeated Boba.



Never thrust people who make 15*5 = 60.
You want to use mathematics ?

- Kyle had some years of fighting experience before ANH (Dark Forces) + the events shown in the game (2-5 years)
- he worked as a mercenary from ANH to JK (5 years)
- this is followed by the events in JK and MOTS (about 1 year)
- then he again became a mercenary and fought imperials until the events shown in JK II (this is said to be a few years after JK which was 5 years ABY since Luke has already trained some people in the Academy lets just for the fun of it say it happened in 12 or 13 ABY - another 7 years fighting experience added)
- then he was at the academy (around 10 years at least)
- the YV war (25-29 ABY = 4 years)

Total years in combat: 19-22 after the YV war
Total years at Academy: 10+ until the YV war
Force practice: 25 years of active use at the end of th YV war

Kyp:
- started training in 11 ABY (23 years of force practice in Dark Nest)
- only major conflict involved YV war (4 years)

Can you please tell me where Kyp did get 17 years of combat experience ? Was he constantly fighting something from the day he entered the Academy to the end of the YV war or what ?



And if you look at it in a realistic way the only advantage that Kyp has compared to Kyle is spending some more years at the Academy than Kyle did.



And still Kyp has never been seen fighting force users with lightsabers in real fights were Kyle wasted dozens of them.



From the book the only thing we get is Gantoris being about to attack Kun and next thing we see is Gantoris lying dead on the ground. Where he get "burned" by the Dark Side ? And what the hell has Corran Horn absorbing the energy from that pool to do with the dark side ?



In the book the people were almost everytime training on their own and when Luke taught them something he always taught them to all of them.



Again...Kun did it with the force. So you're a force user now, Glentract ?



Where did I insult you ? You are the one who calls me a "loser" here, aren't you ?



Yes. Because it takes information from all sources including games, the WotC RPG and stuff like that. Who's making excuses here ?



The creator of literary person is "wrong" with his own creation because somebody else says something different ? Alright. I will go and write a book about Harry Potter then visit Joanne K. Rowling and tell her she was wrong with anything she has written so far.



Despite of the JA books of course.



Go and read the JA trilogy.



So the things that were done so far in the entire KotoR series are: Revan finding some star maps, Revan defeating Malak, Exile beating Sion, Nihilus and Kreia. Ok.



The video game contradicts the movies. The idea of Kyle being able to force push Jaden across a room is contradicted by what ? The idea of the Exile being able to kill the masters in KotoR II or Kreia doing it is contradicted by what ?



Has anybody here questioned that ? No. Does that mean that people can't do things which they have shown to be able to do in the "not canon" ending ?
Using that logic:
If the lightside ending of KotoR is the canon one Revan doesn't have the ability to defeat Malak's best students and Jolee + Juhani because he never did it. If the Dark Side ending is canon Revan doesn't have the ability to defeat Bastilla because he never did it. Does that make any sense to you ?

You know what Nai, I don't have time to argue with you on this anymore. Obviously we are both close minded, arrogent, children who are wasting eachother's time. I have my opinion, you have yours, I'm moving on with my life.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You know what Nai, I don't have time to argue with you on this anymore. Obviously we are both close minded, arrogent, children who are wasting eachother's time. I have my opinion, you have yours, I'm moving on with my life.

Nice idea. I agree on that...

What? You agree with something I said? It is a sign of the apocolapse! lol

Another line of great thinkers in action...

http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/2692/greatthinkers5sg.jpg

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Another line of great thinkers in action...


Oh Lord Janus...
Oooh you are so big...
So absolutely huge.
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here I can tell you.
Forgive me, O Lord, for this dreadful toadying.
And barefaced flattery.
But you are so strong and, well, just so super.
Fan-tastic.
Amen.

Thanks for the poetry, but I just threw the pic up there because I thought it was amusing and needed sharing.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Thanks for the poetry, but I just threw the pic up there because I thought it was amusing and needed sharing.

Well...that's the same reason I threw that Monthy Python quote in here...