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Umm.. too bad for the Muslims?

I mean really, they're Taliban soldiers anyway they burned correct? Even if you're a Muslim you think "ohwell, they were bastards anyway.."

Too bad they were dead when they burned them.

nothing like hatred. i think its crap they think the americans were doing it spite them, it makes sence to get rid of the bodys, stop disease. hell, people wern't up in arms with the bodys left behind in the mud in WW2

The taliban deserved this anyway. There a bunch of shit eatying murderers who have got justice coming their way. Why the hell should we respect their beliefs.

Originally posted by Imagawa666
The taliban deserved this anyway. There a bunch of shit eatying murderers who have got justice coming their way. Why the hell should we respect their beliefs.

perhaps because the geneva convention forbids the abuse and mutilation of bodies, whether they are alive or dead?

"juctice" would be to have those responsible for 9-11 tried and sentenced, which will never happen. so lets do the next best thing and desecrate one of the worlds top religions. rather than deal with that particular enemy lets turn them facing mecca and burn them, to say "f*** you" to every muslem.
cause we're amurican!!! *spit* and if you dont like it you can geeeeeeit out!!!

Testify my Brothefrom acroos the pond! Testify!

actually, this:

Originally posted by PVS
so lets do the next best thing and desecrate one of the worlds top religions. rather than deal with that particular enemy lets turn them facing mecca and burn them, to say "f*** you" to every muslem.
cause we're amurican!!! *spit* and if you dont like it you can geeeeeeit out!!!

was 100% sarcasm

funny how a bit of sarcasm can draw the truth out of some people

I can't believe that anyone thought you were actually serious. That is scarey indeed.

Originally posted by PVS
actually, this:



was 100% sarcasm
Owned.

Aside from...everything, I don't think that the soldiers did anything wrong. Aside from letting the guy videotape them burning the bodies.

Personally, I think he should be disciplined for purposely (one might assume) stirring up trouble and straining relations.

that was kind of a self inflicted owning wasnt it.
i wish i could take some credit but....wow

Sooo.......some soldiers burned the bodies of two enemies who were already dead as a last resort because they were becomming hazardous to the health, comfort and well being of the LIVING soldiers who were stationed there....and people have a problem with this?

Nothing wrong with what they did.

If we don't be careful in the middle east we may be creating many more terrorists then there already. Every Innocent person who gets killed is ammunition to the radical terrorist groups towards us. Just look at the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. It did not only get people mad in the middle east. From that point forward support for the war has been going down alot here in the US.

Kill as many terrorist as you want. Don't kill any civilians. Really i don't think this is anything major but bombing a hideout which killed mostly innocent people is not smart.

Originally posted by BackFire
Sooo.......some soldiers burned the bodies of two enemies who were already dead as a last resort because they were becomming hazardous to the health, comfort and well being of the LIVING soldiers who were stationed there....and people have a problem with this?

no, actually that wouldnt bother me at all BF.
but if its being used as a tool to enflare the other side, do you agree with it? do you agree if they point their bodies mockingly at the mecca and making sure everyone knows, while occupying their soil?

and even if you didnt care, wouldnt that be a reckless tactic by our military?
(the religous desecration, not that actual burning)
its not a good time to piss off the entire muslem population imho

I sure have no problem that they mocked the cowardly taliban. It seems like it was an afterthought, not really the reason for burning the bodies. They at war with them, after all. Mocking them is fine.

But yeah, it was probably a bad idea to do that afterwards.

What religious desecration are you referring to?

the very mocking is desecration.

hey, im not going to argue that, im just pointing it out.
it pisses many muslems off to see this shit.
thats a fact. and thus, pissing off a majority population
when you're in their territory fighting a war....completely reckless.

They weren't mocking the muslim religion, they were mocking the taliban for being to cowardly to claim their dead.


But yeah, it definately was reckless, no argument there.

Well 500,000 were slaughtered like sheep in Rwanda while we went "Rwanda where?"

Also the story of the Canadian General Romeo Dallier that was there is very very sad story. How would you feel if you could only sit back and watch it happen. There are few how are more depressed then him.

The burning of bodies is apparently a desecration, but I don't really understand it. Then again I'm not a Muslim.

There are reasons for why, terrorist organisations manage to recruit (predominantly) young males to take up arms against the U.S. or blow themselves up. If the Administration - and the Americans on these boards - fail to see how this - the entire scenario, not just the burning of bodies - would be inflammatory or at the very least imprudent action then I really don't see an end to either the "War on Terror" or the Iraq Occupation in the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by BackFire
They weren't mocking the muslim religion, they were mocking the taliban for being to cowardly to claim their dead.

but thats not what i pointed out.
and as far as the taliban's feelings i dont give a shit.
im saying that mocking acts against ANY muslem,
using religon as a tool, is an insult to them all.

havent we learned our lesson after the koran incident at abu grabe?
mocking islam is completely reckless and puts people's lives in yet more danger.

Originally posted by PVS
but thats not what i pointed out.
and as far as the taliban's feelings i dont give a shit.
im saying that mocking acts against ANY muslem,
using religon as a tool, is an insult to them all.

havent we learned our lesson after the koran incident at abu grabe?
mocking islam is completely reckless and puts people's lives in yet more danger.

I didn't see where it said they were mocking the muslim religion in any way, nor did I see where they were using religion as a tool for anything.

They simply mocked the taliban specifically for not claiming their dead, had nothing to do with religion or muslim or anything, simply the taliban.

True the taliban don't deserve anything special.

Also not related but is Sun Tzu art of war a good book?? I have to pick an old ancient book for a project.

"A Pentagon spokesman described the incident as "repugnant" and said that the army was launching a criminal investigation into the alleged desecration of the corpses, which is in violation of the Geneva Convention on human rights."

thats not liberal spin, thats the pentagon


and, just the way it is, again:
"Muslims traditionally bury their dead, and as one Kabul cleric Mohammed Omar told newsmen, "the burning of these bodies is an offense against Muslims everywhere. Bodies are burned only in Hell."

dont shoot the messenger

I have to agree, the Taliban as an organisation are not deserving of much respect, but one must always look at the bigger picture. The situation was handled poorly, and like always this reflects poorly on the military and the US, especially with the groups the US are supposedly trying to win the hearts and minds of. Sure it's easy to say "yep, they were bastards in life, they deserve no respect in death" but as is often the case the easiest way is not the best.

Of course to mitigate the chances of disease and all something had to be done, but I don't know why they couldn't dig a hole for them. And in terms of smell, I grew up on a large farm, and sadly things died (not saying a dead cow or pig smells worse then a dead person, as I have no idea) and the smell can be bad - but generally the only thing worse then the dead rotting smell would be the smell of burning (which is why many farmers prefered to bury livestock that have died)

Originally posted by PVS
"A Pentagon spokesman described the incident as "repugnant" and said that the army was launching a criminal investigation into the alleged desecration of the corpses, which is in violation of the Geneva Convention on human rights."

thats not liberal spin, thats the pentagon


and, just the way it is, again:
"Muslim's traditionally bury their dead, and as one Kabul cleric Mohammed Omar told newsmen, "the burning of these bodies is an offense against Muslim's everywhere. Bodies are burned only in Hell."

dont shoot the messenger

That's, of course, merely a possibility, not "the way it is". They're launching an investigation to make sure no intentional desecration or mockery of the Muslim belief took place. An investigation is nothing more than that, an investigation. That second part is just someone's opinion on the matter. Some Muslim's were offended by the act, not denying that, what I'm denying is the intention of offense on the part of these soldiers.

According to the soldiers, who as of now, have the most validity and credibility in the matter seeing as they were actually there, said it was done because it had to be done in order to halt any possible disease and discomfort, not just to piss off Muslim's. Their intentions seemed decent enough, just more stupid people getting offended over something based on assumption of the worst or simple hearsay.

People are just jumping to idiotic and illogically hasty conclusions that this act was some sort of intentional attack against Muslim's and their beliefs, which, according to the soldiers, is simply untrue.

As I said, the actions (the mocking of the taliban, not the actual burnings, which I think is perfectly reasonable considering the circumstances they were in) were sloppy and reckless, but that has nothing to do with the intentions of the soldiers, just the way they handled the situation.

no, the soldiers were directly involved and may be up on charges,
which makes them far less credible than you've appraised. if they did desecrate the bodies, do you think they would be rushing to incriminate themselves?

i agree, we dont know anything for sure, but you cant sit there and write it off. the notion that its possible for someone to not be guilty should not be the means to halt an investigation and proclaim their innocence.

I'm not exactly "writing it off", innocent until proven guilty, and all. As of now, they're innocent, and seeing as they're the only ones who know what happened there, and their story makes sense, I'll stick with that untill someone actually proves that they did intentionally do wrong.

Originally posted by BackFire
I'm not exactly "writing it off", innocent until proven guilty, and all. As of now, they're innocent, and seeing as they're the only ones who know what happened there, and their story makes sense, I'll stick with that untill someone actually proves that they did intentionally do wrong.

ok, so you do feel this should be investigated?
if so, then we agreed all along

Who cares what happens to em? They are dead and nobody misses them. Except the liberal PETA folks of course..they all love animals.

Hell yeah ; Who cares?

They should have burnt corpses in New Orleans !

Originally posted by KidRock
Who cares what happens to em? They are dead and nobody misses them. Except the liberal PETA folks of course..they all love animals.
LOL.

ZOMG teh slurz!!1111!!11

Originally posted by PVS
ok, so you do feel this should be investigated?
if so, then we agreed all along

Sure, I have no problem with them investigating it, never said I did.

I just have a problem with the people who have already seemingly branded the soldiers guilty without really knowing the full story or even understanding the reasoning behind the act.

Originally posted by manny321
True the taliban don't deserve anything special.

Also not related but is Sun Tzu art of war a good book?? I have to pick an old ancient book for a project.

Go for Plato's Republic.

Originally posted by BackFire
Sure, I have no problem with them investigating it, never said I did.

I just have a problem with the people who have already seemingly branded the soldiers guilty without really knowing the full story or even understanding the reasoning behind the act.

and what would the reasoning have been ?

Unless we talk about a large amount of dead corpses, nor mass burial or cremation may be justified. Its inexcusable.

That they did it because it was beginning to stink and it could cause disease, that's what it stated in the article, according to the soldiers.

The tali ban aren't protected by the G-Convention. They don't get/deserve the right to be treated as human.

Burn 'em alive and piss on them inside of a mosque for all I care.

Originally posted by BackFire
That they did it because it was beginning to stink and it could cause disease, that's what it stated in the article, according to the soldiers.
omg tehy lied
Originally posted by long pig
The tali ban aren't protected by the G-Convention. They don't get/deserve the right to be treated as human.

Burn 'em alive and piss on them inside of a mosque for all I care.
Are you trolling or are you serious? Or both?

Probably a bit of both.

But, from what I know of the Geneva Convention, unless you follow the rules of battle in a war, you don't get the protection of the GC.

Taliban used terrorist tactics and didn't wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from the civilians, so they don't deserve any rights.

So, torturing/burning them is fine with me.

Originally posted by long pig

Taliban used terrorist tactics and didn't wear uniforms to distinguish themselves from the civilians, so they don't deserve any rights.

So, torturing/burning them is fine with me.

Descriptions of militia or volunteer corps "having a fixed distinctive sign recognisable at a distance" seems quaint after the war in Afghanistan, where daisy cutter fuel air bombs were dropped from a great height on a terrorist group's mountain hideout............wow what good eyesight they had !

Anyway its bullshit. If they dont have any insignias the GC statews that they should be treated as POW under the GC until proven by a Tribunal.

But then again, its difficult to get that to be understood by Americans.

Never said it was morally right, just saying why I would consider it legal.
Even if it weren't, I wouldn't care.

Who cares about the Muslim plight? They brought it on themselves.

Originally posted by GCG
But then again, its difficult to get that to be understood by Americans.

Originally posted by long pig
Who cares about the Muslim plight? They brought it on themselves.

You really got me there.



Shouldn't you have grown out of this "Anti-American" phase by now?

Come on guys, the only reason you clean out the refridgerator is because that un-eaten apple in the crisper drawer has stared to rot and stink! Why should our international prisons be any different? Just thank god for the crisper drawer! God is good, god is relevant! Jesus loves me, this I know....

Eh....do people truly care about this?

...erm.wtf ?

You know, that's what a lot of people seem to think, despite there being no proof of evidence to support it.

The locals refused to bury the dead, so the soldiers burned them. How is that worse than letting corpses rot in the heat?

I think the religion here is used for everything - and im not the biggest fan of some American behaviour displayed by the soldiers, but i seriously do not see anything too terrible about what has been done.

It wsant a mockery - the locals refused to bury the bodies. Im sorry to sound harsh, but it is not American soldiers responsibility to bury the bodies.

What the reason might be for burning those corpses it was a bad idea period.

Why was it a bad idea?

I don't understand all this sympathy towards the enemy. How can you feel sorry for the person who is trying to kill you?

I haven't read through this whole thread...so don't know if has been brought up or not....but just leaving corpse around will bring much disease...you gotta do something with them, and if people won't bury then well.........

Is the smell of burnt flesh and molten fat really that enticing either though? I highly doubt they managed to reduce the bodies to ash so they'd have to bury the remains regardless. The logical thing to do would be to bury the bodies in the first place.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Is the smell of burnt flesh and molten fat really that enticing either though? I highly doubt they managed to reduce the bodies to ash so they'd have to bury the remains regardless. The logical thing to do would be to bury the bodies in the first place.

Hmmmmm...yeah it would smell really bad......guess just dig a huge hole....like WWII....

I don't know...I'm leaving now....

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Is the smell of burnt flesh and molten fat really that enticing either though? I highly doubt they managed to reduce the bodies to ash so they'd have to bury the remains regardless. The logical thing to do would be to bury the bodies in the first place.

If the natives refused to bury them, why is it soldiers responsibility to do so. As already mentioned, corpses on such a high temperature should be burned because they can bring so much disease, no?

The bodies had been there for a day. Are you suggesting the bodies carried a infectious disease contagions within a day capable of spreading by air transmission - because that seems unlikely - the smell is what would likely have provoked the burning. In which case you are left with the smell of burnt corpses, which still have to be disposed of anyway - in which case there are few options other than burying the remains. So burying the bodies in the first place would have been the logical thing to do.

And that should be soldier's responsibility, why?

Actually many ancients used to burn their dead - because it was far better that way - it is only with the mergance of judaism, christianity and islam that burning has somehow became wrong.

They are dead - they wont know anyway.

Besides, if you are a soldier whos there fighting, would you stand on a 90 degree sun digging two graves?
Yes, great idea!

Uh... I never said they had a responsibility to bury them or that I cared about the bodies. Just that it would be the logical thing to do - considering it requires upwards of 700 degrees Celcius to actually cremate a body and I doubt that they managed to reach that simply by setting the corpses alight - so they'd still have to dispose of the remains afterwards - in all likelihood by burial.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Why was it a bad idea?

IMO it is never a good idea to piss off a world religion, certainly not when avoidance is possible. Let alone the religion of your enemy.

I agree with you that it is not the soldiers their job to bury the dead, but if so why did they bury them? to stop the bodies from spreading diseases imo that ain't there job also.

Originally posted by long pig
You really got me there.



Shouldn't you have grown out of this "Anti-American" phase by now?

actually i was pointing out both your weak prejudice comments.

and just so YOU know, its not very impressive to just make an assumption about people's opinions and then go on to argue with that assumption. often the sign of weak debating. by this i mean "unamerican".

you could have easily read my arguement beforehand and understood, but you chose to look like an asshat. congrats

and lil b. the issue is not bodies being burried,
the issue is the SUSPICION, NOT FACT (for backfire )
that the soldiers were desecrating the bodies and mocking
the muslem religion by facing their bodies east toward the mecca,
burning them not as a precautionary measure, but as a mocking cerimony
to basically all of islam, and bragging to the enemy about it.
the suspicion is that there was intentional desecration,
which is forbidden by the geneva convention,
and, if true, is just sadistic and evil.


its not about defending the enemy
its about not making MORE enemies.
and thats quite a sound strategy considering
the land they occupy.

Originally posted by PVS
and lil b. the issue is not bodies being burried,
the issue is the SUSPICION, NOT FACT (for backfire )
that the soldiers were desecrating the bodies and mocking
the muslem religion by facing their bodies east toward the mecca,
burning them not as a precautionary measure, but as a mocking cerimony
to basically all of islam, and bragging to the enemy about it.
the suspicion is that there was intentional desecration,
which is forbidden by the geneva convention,
and, if true, is just sadistic and evil.


its not about defending the enemy
its about not making MORE enemies.
and thats quite a sound strategy considering
the land they occupy.

I see.

Thats even stupider than. Who would go through so much trouble to offend someones religion - turning bodis towards mecca and such. If its true, then it is sadistic and evil, but as already stated, its a suspition.

The very fact that the locals refused to bury the bodies of their Muslim brothers, regardless of where they are from, but leaving them to rot in heat is a bigger insult to Islam then a suspition that soldiers burned the body, cos they had nothing better to do.

The point is - the locals offended the families of those two dead muslims more than those soldiers did - the soldiers gave them a chance to bury them - so then when the viligers refused, then and only then they decided to insult islam? That sounds a bit far fetched.

If they wanted to insult Islam by burning their bodies, turning them towards mecca and what not, they would not have asked locals to bury them first - they would have burned them regardless.

oh btw, my mistake: they were supposedly pointing the bodies west...not east.
not that it matters to you or i, but you never know when some trivia nazi will pounce on me for that

anyway, yes, its all a matter of investigation. regardless of what we read and hear, its all useless hearsay. so until then, we can only rationalise the situation based on what the accused say, what those who dispise the accused say, and our own assumption. not a steady ground for debate imho

i just hope that they didnt do it, because if they did and its exposed as hard fact, it just means yet more lives are in danger from the backlash.

i hope that if they did do it, the investigation will be thorough and those responsible will face justice.

I thought it was a bit weird. I thought muslims turned towards East when they pray anyway

well, they pray facing toward the mecca, so depends on the location

Jeez, it's dead bodys! DEAD! DEAD! DEAD!

just had to post something...anything...didnt you?

Originally posted by PVS
oh btw, my mistake: they were supposedly pointing the bodies west...not east.
not that it matters to you or i, but you never know when some trivia nazi will pounce on me for that

anyway, yes, its all a matter of investigation. regardless of what we read and hear, its all useless hearsay. so until then, we can only rationalise the situation based on what the accused say, what those who dispise the accused say, and our own assumption. not a steady ground for debate imho

i just hope that they didnt do it, because if they did and its exposed as hard fact, it just means yet more lives are in danger from the backlash.

i hope that if they did do it, the investigation will be thorough and those responsible will face justice.

That's one thing that I never understood about the new photos and reports of prisoner abuse that O'Reilly and his ilk were bi.tching about in the last few weeks. They say that they don't want this information to get out, because it could, and likely will, cost more coalition soldiers their lives. But, they are like the kids who do something wrong and don't want their parents to find out...because they'll get in trouble. They aren't taking into consideration that FACT that these prisoners are being mistreated. They want to sweep the evidence under the rug, rather than face it like men...and change the situation. They aren't talking about how to stop it from happening, and having people, all the way up the ladder held accountable...they just don't want teh bad guys to find out. In my opinion, that's just like saying that the prisoners deserved it...that it's proper retribution for 9/11. All it really is, is a continuation of American hypocrisy.

Originally posted by PVS
just had to post something...anything...didnt you?
No but yeah what's wrong with burning dead bodys? U wanna risk other people (maybe even from ur regiment) dying or gettin' seriously ill cuz u don't wanna burn some dead guys who just tried to kill u?

Burning them as soon as possible is one thing. Waiting until the stink is over-powering, is another.

Originally posted by Da preacher
No but yeah what's wrong with burning dead bodys? U wanna risk other people (maybe even from ur regiment) dying or gettin' seriously ill cuz u don't wanna burn some dead guys who just tried to kill u?

you just ignored the whole thread didnt you?

Originally posted by PVS
actually i was pointing out both your weak prejudice comments.

and just so YOU know, its not very impressive to just make an assumption about people's opinions and then go on to argue with that assumption. often the sign of weak debating. by this i mean "unamerican".

you could have easily read my arguement beforehand and understood, but you chose to look like an asshat. congrats


You're such a rebel.

Originally posted by long pig


You're such a rebel.

Back in the 60's PVS was the leader of all the hippie rebels.

kidrock's just running on fumes these days...

Originally posted by PVS
kidrock's just running on fumes these days...

If its not broke why fix it?

Anyone care to say something relevant?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The locals refused to bury the dead, so the soldiers burned them. How is that worse than letting corpses rot in the heat?

I think the religion here is used for everything - and im not the biggest fan of some American behaviour displayed by the soldiers, but i seriously do not see anything too terrible about what has been done.

It wsant a mockery - the locals refused to bury the bodies. Im sorry to sound harsh, but it is not American soldiers responsibility to bury the bodies.

1) I have read dozens of reports on the matter and none of them state that 'locals' refused to bury them.

2) They used corpses as bait playing a full-on recording mocking the other soldiers.

3) It's mockery doing what you are supposed NOT to be doing. And it was done out of spite.

They burned the bodies and taunted over a loudspeaker:



Seems so much different than normal cremation due to '' risk of disease'' to me.

And this is wrong....how?

It sounds like psychological warfare to me.

A soldier's mind should be fixed on killing the dirty jawas, not respecting their silly religion.

And it's right...how?

There is a difference between "psychological" warfare (that which is allowed) and acts that violate various laws and concepts of decency. One would ask, if this were true, what right does the US have to claim any moral high ground if they are more then prepared to sink to the same level as the "evil" enemy they are fighting.

Oh, and those "dirty Jawas" just happen to be of the same religion as, oh, a few million other people who the US claims to be liberating and trying to win the hearts and minds of. Lines become easily blurred in the minds of the masses - the average Muslim doesn't like the Taliban, but they can be, and it seems in a lot of cases are, offended by acts which knowingly violate their religion.