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All of them would struggle with ROTS Sids but could the three take out DE Sidious?

Yes. Just Mace and Yoda could ruckus ROTS Sidious, and it's debatable if Dooku could. Adding the three of them together and siccing them on DE Sidious is overkill.

DE Sidious is way above ROTS Sidious so this should be pretty close.

They'd probably win. I think they are strong enough to survive his force storms, and, well, I just think that they could take him, no real basis.

no one except maybe Ragnos, Sadow, or the other powerful anciant sith can survive a force storm and DE sids definatly has more powers then just that.

No. There are plenty who could survive it. The Force Storm is FAR less ocncentrated than his lightning. He can't put out more energy than his body has the power to channel. The force storms, which are spread over hundreds of meters would hurt, but no kill a powerful force user. A regular person would die though, as they can only absorb a amps without dying, while Jedi can take thousands of times that. Sidious also can't fight while using a force storm, it requires his full concentration.

regular lightning hurts hell. Force storm kills hell. Mace was almost crying from the lightning and i know he got his hand chopped off but when Anakin was handless he wasnt screaming his ass off. The strom most likely cant be deflected with a saber or with the force and if sids can get far enough away he can use it.

The storm is more dissapated than lightning though. In KOTOR, that is NOT what Sidious uses. That is NOT a true Force Storm. That was a name for a gameplay experince they gave to make a higher level of lightning to make the game more in-depth.

It WOULD hurt, but holy shit dude, these are 3 of the greatest jedi of the PT.

Against a guy whose lightning decimated a star fleet. . .

Glentract, the Emperor Reborn may not focus his lightning upon one target as he used to, but I'll be damned if the concentration of energy in his new Storms isn't a thousand times as powerful as that of his lightning. It's not the same amount of power spread over a greater distance, unless you want to argue that a bout of lightning could destroy a starship, in which case Mace Windu would have the defensive ability of a cruiser. . . It's a much greater concentration of power over a greater distance. And I emphasize on the 'much'.

As for the duel. Unless the trio starts the battle a few miles away, Sidious is owned to dust. It obviously takes a good deal of concentration and focus to generate and maintain a Force Storm of that magnitude, considering that once Luke and Leia threw him off, he lost control and killed himself. And I have my doubts that he'll be able to achieve such a level of focus when faced with three duelists who would each rival a weaker form of him on their own.

In a nutshell, Sidious gets annihilated.

This 'is' overkill.

Dark Empire Sidious, however, could take and defeat either of these people one on one. For those of you who doubt me, read the damn comics. If they break off and fight one on one, they're all screwed. Including Dooku and Yoda.

Now. If they attack simultaneously, they will win. He can't fight off all three of them in close combat. But. If they don't quickly, he can create a wormhole to jettison them all into space.

A Force Storm destroys. It was a wormhole that abducted Luke from Coruscant, and it can't be stopped.

Alright. Let me run through how this will work.

DE Palpatine's Force powers and fighting ability have been upgraded since his ROTS and ROTJ persona. In ROTS, he put Yoda to the test. I am of the mind that he wouldn't have been able to defeat Yoda on neutral ground, but it wouldn't be a slaughter on Yoda's part by any means.

By the times of Dark Empire, Palpatine's powers are greatly improved. He would be able to defeat any PT Jedi one-on-one. He could crush Mace, or Dooku, and even defeat Yoda. But can he attack all three? Not likely. For one, he's outnumbered. And even if he slays Windu, you have two other Force-users stabbing him with a saber. And he can be cut down.

For the Force Storm. It requires a great deal of concentration. Palpatine beat Luke and Leia, and then prepared to annihilate the New Republic Forces amassed outside his flagship, the Eclipse. Luke got back up, and he and Leia disrupted the process, causing the Eclipse to be destroyed.

Now. It is a significant power. Also, an instant-kill technique. Once it is fully unleashed, it cannot be stopped. Which is why Luke and Leia had to disrupt the process. But no. Sidious would NOT have time to summon a Force storm unless he disabled or killed off a few. Which is possible, but again. As soon as he slays one, he has to deal with two very fast people stabbing at him.

Palpatine also has the ability to summon wormholes which can teleport people from one place to another. This is how he summoned Luke, but everything calls it a 'Force Storm'. But it isn't. I doubt Palpatine can control such a magnitude of power and designate it to 'teleport' or 'destroy'. It was a wormhole, according to the comics. So, if he can summon a tiny wormhole, he will win. He can jettison two or one into space and defeat the other two.

So. The trio will win. But not even Yoda can afford to screw around. They have to launch and stab, Lol. Kill quickly. Dooku's usual arrogance and cool demeaner will also be cast aside if they hope to win. But he's done it before, and he's a damn good duelist. And so is Mace.

If they launch a simultaneous and quick attack, they win. If they break off and duel, they lose.

Damn. Ignore those last few posts. I sound like a fanboy noob. I'm sorry. Alright. I'll post back later, with more information about DE Sidious. I have enough that'll show his power, I think.

In essence, he is on par with Exar Kun. I'll tell you why later.

zOMG!


j00 n00b!!!!1111!!!ONEONEONEELEVENELEVEN!!!

Quiet, or I shall summon the wrath of Darth Clumsy!!!!

Dude, don't make me summon the wrath of KHAAAANNN!!!!

None can stand before KHAAAAAAAAAN!

Before I begin, let me state that I am not in any way a Sidious fanboy. He is one of my favorite characters, along with Yoda, but I try to not have a true preference among the Star Wars characters. However, I have been troubled with the intense lack of appreciation and respect for Sidious's powers. So, I do my best to 'even the odds', and prove that he is not as weak or as foolish or as worthless as most around here believe.

Anyways. Onto DE Sidious.

---

When comparing the Sidious of Dark Empire to that of ROTS, you will notice an immense and dramatic upgrade in power. On the official site, and by Lucas, Sidious is dubbed the most powerful practitioner of the Sith in modern times. He rightly clings to this title, if not by his powerful performance in ROTS, than even moreso by his depiction in Dark Empire.

I will show you that, Dark Empire's Sidious, may very well be the most powerful 'being' in modern times, competing with NJO Luke, who is very overpowered and exaggerated as it is. In this form, he is on par with the great Exar Kun. He is more powerful than Kreia, Malak, Bane, Maul, Dooku, Vader, Mace, or even Yoda. Of the names I mentioned, he could best any of them in one-on-one combat. He definately is superior, even in the Force. Kreia and Yoda would be his only competition, and even they fall just slightly short.

In the times of Dark Empire, Palpatine had been staving away. He was so powerful in the Dark Side that he retained his consciousness from his death aboard the second Death Star. He is one of the very few Sith to do it. Palpatine had been gathering his strength, and transferred his consciousness into the body of a youthful and physically powerful clone. He no longer held the body of a frail old man, but a powerful young man. He was tall, strong, and physically fit. Strong enough to beat back Luke, who overpowered Vader in a sense of rage.

Palpatine's nuclear Force powers were upgraded during this time. Even back in ROTS, when his powers were very developed, he wasn't strong enough to beat back Yoda. In this form, his powers seem to be very nearly double what they used to be. This, combined with his young and youthful form, as well as a plethora of new abilities, made him a deadly foe.

Palpatine had two known new Force abilities of which his character is renown for. And they are: The Force Storm Ability and the ability to manipulate wormholes.

- The Force Storm Power: This is an upgraded version of 'Sith lightning'. It is so powerful that Palpatine used it to swallow humans, ships, and even entire 'fleets' of New Republic cruisers. This did require some time of concentration, but only about three minutes worth. Maybe even less. This is also an instant-kill ability. Luke and Leia were forced to disrupt it during the proceedure, knowing that had Palpatine fired it, there was no way to deflect it.

- Wormholes: Wikipedia credits Luke's summoning from Coruscant to Byss as a 'Force Storm'. But Palpatine later mused that such a powerful force is hard to maintain control of. I doubt even by this time could he transformed the Force storm from a destroying offensive technique to something with teleportational powers. Luke was abducted by a wormhole it seems, transporting him from Coruscant to Byss. Palpatine summoned it quickly, and it is assumed he could do so again in battle.

Combine these two powers with his upgraded originals, and you have one immensely powerful entity. There is no doubt. Count Dooku may have been the equal of Sidious in ROTS, but he is an infant compared to DE Sidious. Yoda is only slightly above Dooku in this instance. Now, let us look at Sidious's power.

- Sidious's power was so great by the times of Dark Empire, that is coersed Luke into giving into the Dark Side. He saw Palpatine's power, and assumed he could use its immensity to destabilize his operations, knowing that no Light Side manuever he knew of could stop Palpatine. Luke was tempted by Vader and Palpatine once before, and denied them and has proven to be strong of will. But even this was not enough to stop him from succumbing the second time.

- Sidious faced Luke and Leia in saber combat and defeated both, quickly and easily. This was aboard the Eclipse, his personal flagship. He wanted to execute them after he obliterated the New Republic fleet, singlehandedly, in front of their eyes. As he prepared a Force Storm, it took the two powerful Skywalkers to destabilize the manuever. They escaped as Sidious fell into the void of his Storm, and it began to destroy the Eclipse and the gathered bit of Imperial fleet.

- Sidious was only defeated when a renegade Red Guard corrupted his clones' DNA. Sidious grew ill, and was on his deathbed. He traveled to Korriban and forced the answer to his immortality from the spirits of ancient Sith Lords. They told him that he needed to possess Leia's unborn son, and he would be immortal. So he traveled to Onderon in the Eclipse II. He was on his deathbed at the time, but managed to shield himself from the Jedi (who were stationed on the planet to protect Leia). Sidious revealed himself in the citidel where Leia was giving birth to her son. Luke and a large contingent of Jedi Knights tried to stop him. He killed half of them, wounded another set, and knocked Luke aside. And he was 'dying' as he did this. As he encroached on the baby, Han Solo shot him in the back. Palpatine's clone died, but his spirit lunged for the baby. A dying Jedi intercepted Palpatine's spirit, and held on to it. They both died, and Palpatine's spirit was expelled forever.

This, combined with his powers, makes Palpatine in DE a very powerful opponent. I'm sure some of you will notice. And I am sorry for the Dooku and Yoda and Kreia fans. Even though I think Yoda is awesome (he's tied as my favorite character), no one in ROTS or the PT trilogy can hope to match Sidious in combat, in his Dark Empire form. And some of the older Jedi and Sith couldn't either.

In Dark Empire, Sidious is firmly in the Top Seven Most Powerful Sith Lords. Moreso than a Malak. A Dooku. A Traya. A Scion. A Maul. A Vader. A Bane. A Bandon.

Now. He might still lose. Again, he could kill two or three, but they'd be distractions. It doesn't matter if he killed Mace or Dooku. While he did it, he'd be attacked from behind by Yoda. Now, should he be able to summon a wormhole, to get rid of one or two of the combatants, the fight is over. Yoda can't beat him, and neither can the other two. Let us hope they attack swiftly, simultaneously, and in cooperation. Otherwise, my friends, all three will die.

I give 50/50 odds. But I personally believe the trio might just win. But there will be at least ONE casualty. It also depends if Palpatine takes priority. If he does, he'll go for Yoda first. If he evades the others, he will kill Yoda. Then, he might simply just overpower the others.

So... I'm undecided.

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/3121/sidskhan9ja.jpg

The reason DE Sidious isn't considered as powerful as he should be is because

a. Most people here haven't read the comics
b. He used to have a large fanboy group. Same thing happened to Maul and Koon. They were overpowered by the forum and are now underestimated.


Still, the following could take DE Sidious in a one-on-one fight IMO:

Ragnos
Sadow
Kressh
Exar
Nadd
Ulic
NJO Luke
Lord Simus
Ajunta Pall
Tulak Hord

Yeah. The Ancient Siths would. But Kun and NJO Luke would be close. And he might beat Ulic.

Originally posted by Escape81
Yeah. The Ancient Siths would. But Kun and NJO Luke would be close. And he might beat Ulic.

I have a question, how are you so certain the ancient sith would definately defeat DE sidious?

Vengeance. You seem cool and all, and I respect a fellow Sidious fan. But from what we gather, Ragnos had control of Sith Magic. Arts that were lost before Sidious was conceived. Now, granted. It wouldn't be an ownage fest as many believe it to be. But Ragnos was physically better than Sidious (even in Dark Empire), and the others faced down many Jedi in combat. Many more than Sidious faced.

However, there were more Jedi back in that day too. Sidious had no trouble in ANY of his battles (even when he was dying). So I agree that you can't necessarily say that:

"Kun would own DE Sidious. He slaughtered thousands of Jedi in battle."

Well, duh, in DE Sidious's time there were only 100 Jedi, or so. So there is no telling. As I said, it would be close between Kun and DE Sidious or DE Sidious and NJO Luke.

Ragnos is stronger. And the other Sith lived in fear of him. He even had access to arts Sidious himself did not. So I would imagine he is still stronger.

He'd beat DE Sidious. I'm sure.

Originally posted by Escape81
Vengeance. You seem cool and all, and I respect a fellow Sidious fan. But from what we gather, Ragnos had control of Sith Magic. Arts that were lost before Sidious was conceived. Now, granted. It wouldn't be an ownage fest as many believe it to be. But Ragnos was physically better than Sidious (even in Dark Empire), and the others faced down many Jedi in combat. Many more than Sidious faced.

However, there were more Jedi back in that day too. Sidious had no trouble in ANY of his battles (even when he was dying). So I agree that you can't necessarily say that:

"Kun would own DE Sidious. He slaughtered thousands of Jedi in battle."

Well, duh, in DE Sidious's time there were only 100 Jedi, or so. So there is no telling. As I said, it would be close between Kun and DE Sidious or DE Sidious and NJO Luke.

Ragnos is stronger. And the other Sith lived in fear of him. He even had access to arts Sidious himself did not. So I would imagine he is still stronger.

He'd beat DE Sidious. I'm sure.

Well yeah even I doubt sidious chances against ragnos. However If you mean naga sadow etc. like I thought you did than I would have to say that there is no real proof that they would have the upper hand.

Hmm...DE Sidious used one of those force storms to throw Luke from Coruscant to Byss. What would hinder him if he just likes to throw Mace, Yoda and Dooku to the next planet or into outer space ?

The trio only has a chance when Sidious can't use abilities like that and so they really have to start very close to him and immediatly jump at / kill him.

How long would it take him to prepare that Storm though? And how big is it? If its kilometers width and takes minutes to prepare its not going to be a very effective weapon.

Again, it did not look - nor produce - the symptoms of a Force storm. It looked and had the properties of a manipulated wormhole. And it did not show Palpatine when it was summoned, so it is possible that it can be formed at any time.

Perhaps three minutes or so, tops. He planned on destroying the fleet in front of Coruscant with one, and he left Luke and Leia alive. Knowing that they would eventually recover, I'm sure it wasn't a feat that required an hour.

Bottom line. I agree with Nai on this. If they do not act quickly, Sidious kills them all.