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Who will win this duke.

Originally posted by Mordum
Who will win this duke.

This is horribly lopsided Morlun. Either Phoenix or LT could take out the Infinites. They are the greatest forces in the multiverse and they work for Marvels supreme being. Eternity is inconsequential in this match.

PF gets eating

LT who know they have never faced each other.

The infites might be from beyond the multiverse so they might be able to take these guys.

Again the full extent of their powers in unknown

Clearly they were manipulating the Multiverse and all realities.

LT didn’t stop them, neither did the PF.

They came to their senses

the hand of a single infinite dwarfed eternity itself, their powers seem to be great but theres a problem. just to save a SINGLE galaxy, an infinite had to sacrifice itself, this kinda makes it hard to tell just what their power level is.

Their height is ONE LIGHTYEAR TALL !!!! Dude !!!!

Originally posted by kgkg
PF gets eating

LT who know they have never faced each other.

The infites might be from beyond the multiverse so they might be able to take these guys.

Again the full extent of their powers in unknown

Clearly they were manipulating the Multiverse and all realities.

LT didn’t stop them, neither did the PF.

They came to their senses

It wasnt stated that they were beyond the multiverse therefore you cant assume they were. Under those circumstances LT and Phoenix would be more powerful than them, LT because he's the judge of the multiverse, phoenix because shes the power source behind it.

LT and Phoenix havent stopped a lot of things doesnt mean they couldnt, but instead that they didnt have jurisdiction to, or their work wasnt interferred with.

All we know for definite about these Infinites are that theyre more powerful than Eternity.

LT and Phoenix alone would stop them. Its obvious.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
more powerful than Eternity.

For whom (Eternity) we know that is nothing for LT.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It wasnt stated that they were beyond the multiverse therefore you cant assume they were. Under those circumstances LT and Phoenix would be more powerful than them, LT because he's the judge of the multiverse, phoenix because shes the power source behind it.

LT and Phoenix havent stopped a lot of things doesnt mean they couldnt, but instead that they didnt have jurisdiction to, or their work wasnt interferred with.

All we know for definite about these Infinites are that theyre more powerful than Eternity.
yes but the Fact that none came to stop them.

and also that they are beyond the multiverse hense they reshaped the multiverse.

This time it said all realities.

like i said we don't really know but it's not a definte answer to say LT , or pho wins

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the hand of a single infinite dwarfed eternity itself, their powers seem to be great but theres a problem. just to save a SINGLE galaxy, an infinite had to sacrifice itself, this kinda makes it hard to tell just what their power level is.
it was stupid but none came to stop them aparantly they do that shit often.

Originally posted by kgkg
yes but the Fact that none came to stop them.

and also that they are beyond the multiverse hense they reshaped the multiverse.

This time it said all realities.

like i said we don't really know but it's not a definte answer to say LT , or pho wins

Stop getting caught up on that point. You always do in cosmic battles. So what if there was no intervention. LT or Phoenix never interferred in House of M does that mean Scarlet Witch is more powerful than them? Forget that point it could be (as aformentioned) that the Infinites work was perfectly in line with the natural order which Phoenix and LT adhere to.

They are not beyond the multiverse get that notion out of your head. They were within the multiverse but from a different dimension to 616. They aligned the energy matrixes between realities. They were going from universe to universe doing that. They did not reshape the multiverse.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Stop getting caught up on that point. You always do in cosmic battles. So what if there was no intervention. LT or Phoenix never interferred in House of M does that mean Scarlet Witch is more powerful than them? Forget that point it could be (as aformentioned) that the Infinites work was perfectly in line with the natural order which Phoenix and LT adhere to.

They are not beyond the multiverse get that notion out of your head. They were within the multiverse but from a different dimension to 616. They aligned the energy matrixes between realities. They were going from universe to universe doing that. They did not reshape the multiverse.

Scarlett Witch is a walking retconn jggg

Originally posted by Whurlysplat
Scarlett Witch is a walking retconn jggg

That thread was a farce and was merely Demis revenge.

That issue got dealt with.

Causality is nothing to the divine especially when causality is restricted (on panel) to the borders of reality (Eternity).

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Stop getting caught up on that point. You always do in cosmic battles. So what if there was no intervention. LT or Phoenix never interferred in House of M does that mean Scarlet Witch is more powerful than them? Forget that point it could be (as aformentioned) that the Infinites work was perfectly in line with the natural order which Phoenix and LT adhere to.

They are not beyond the multiverse get that notion out of your head. They were within the multiverse but from a different dimension to 616. They aligned the energy matrixes between realities. They were going from universe to universe doing that. They did not reshape the multiverse.
u getting this from where.

man you crack me up

Originally posted by kgkg
u getting this from where.

man you crack me up

Where are you getting that they were from beyond the multiverse? If theres a threat to 616 then isnt it a normal and quite acceptable assumption to make that theyre from within our multiverse?

Youre the one who stretched and said theyre from beyond.

As for aligning energy matrixes thats what i recall. I'll dig the issue up and get back to you tomorrow. However the only thing that was proved was that they were beyond LT. The fact that LT never intervened tells you what they were doing didnt interfere with the natural order(Just like Thanos having the IG never).

You were the one who came on this thread speculating.

who the **** are the infinites?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where are you getting that they were from beyond the multiverse? If theres a threat to 616 then isnt it a normal and quite acceptable assumption to make that theyre from within our multiverse?

Youre the one who stretched and said theyre from beyond.

As for aligning energy matrixes thats what i recall. I'll dig the issue up and get back to you tomorrow. However the only thing that was proved was that they were beyond LT. The fact that LT never intervened tells you what they were doing didnt interfere with the natural order(Just like Thanos having the IG never).

You were the one who came on this thread speculating.

As I remeber they were from outside the normal dimensions - whatever that means in Marvel this week. They were going to turn uor galaxy into a piece of Jewellery or some such rubbish I think.

Meant to say beyond Eternity not LT. Oooops.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Meant to say beyond Eternity not LT. Oooops.
beyond PF correct

I think the infinites are similar to the cube beings. Remember, Magus was easily able to make Eternity catonic with just a few cosmic cubes. The infinites probably have the ability to alter reality and give the impression that they are more powerful than they actually are.

And don't forget that Eternity has a huge amount of M-Bodies floating throughout the multiverse. They could have just of easily overcome one of his M bodies, Especially since the M bodies only contain a fraction of Eternity's power.

Infinites lose

Originally posted by guy222
Infinites lose

Have a good Sunday

Remove tribunal and atleast it could be a little fight.

Gotta keep LT

He destroys em all

Originally posted by guy222
Gotta keep LT

He destroys em all

Yep he whips them from the battlefield with less then a gesture.

welcome back

Phoenix Force was being mentioned many times to be the ultimate power.
When Eternity was dying, it was also said that only Phoenix Force could heal it, not even Living Tribunal. Galactus is also extremely powerful. Eternity also, but was already toyed by Infinites, but then again, didn't one of the Infinites had to sacrfice himself to restore a planet?
Death in terms of raw power isn't that much.

Living Tribunal is only second to TOAA.

But I think also without LT, the others would win.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Phoenix Force was being mentioned many times to be the ultimate power.
When Eternity was dying, it was also said that only Phoenix Force could heal it, not even Living Tribunal. Galactus is also extremely powerful. Eternity also, but was already toyed by Infinites, but then again, didn't one of the Infinites had to sacrfice himself to restore a planet?
Death in terms of raw power isn't that much.

Living Tribunal is only second to TOAA.

But I think also without LT, the others would win.

Eternity had also been healed by gravity and had been restored a couple of times without the Phoenix Force being involved in order to heal Eternity.

All of those beings are powerful but remove Living Tribunal and the team loses. A single infinite was arranging the entire 616 universe so that it would fit better into the rest of the multiverse. a single one said "We are greater then any single reality".

And three of them against this team.. there chances is IMO not looking good.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Eternity had also been healed by gravity and had been restored a couple of times without the Phoenix Force being involved in order to heal Eternity.

But not such disease.

Originally posted by Utrigita
All of those beings are powerful but remove Living Tribunal and the team loses. A single infinite was arranging the entire 616 universe so that it would fit better into the rest of the multiverse. a single one said "We are greater then any single reality".

And three of them against this team.. there chances is IMO not looking good.

So is Phoenix Force above any single reality. It seems WPOTC can manipulate realities at will. Even Death cannot claim the souls from WPOTC.
It was mentioned many times that Phoenix Force is the big bang, that Phoenix Force is reponsible for the creation, that PF is the all energy in the creation. That Phoenix Force is the one that consumes it and end it.

I don't see any Infinite taking Phoenix Force down.

Originally posted by Xplosive
But not such disease.

So Eternity being trapped in by Night mare and then rescued by Strange is just a no go??? like the incident with Magus five Cosmic Cubes that put Eternity in a stasis and was healed by Galactus and gamora??? these incident are just invalid???

So is Phoenix Force above any single reality. It seems WPOTC can manipulate realities at will. Even Death cannot claim the souls from WPOTC.

Death Cannot claim Souls from Oblivion either so what is your point???
the white room is a hospital for stranded universes that is healed without the person (in this case the Jean) had any idea of how to do it, and you are then saying that she can do it at will???

It was mentioned many times that Phoenix Force is the big bang, that Phoenix Force is reponsible for the creation, that PF is the all energy in the creation. That Phoenix Force is the one that consumes it and end it.

And Galactus has been mentioned just as many times as doing this.

I don't see any Infinite taking Phoenix Force down.

Then it is a luck there is three of them and since Eternity struggled with just a hand I would really like to see the three of them fighting like a unite against abstracts, team without LT gets defeated.

Originally posted by Utrigita
So Eternity being trapped in by Night mare and then rescued by Strange is just a no go??? like the incident with Magus five Cosmic Cubes that put Eternity in a stasis and was healed by Galactus and gamora??? these incident are just invalid???


Never said that, but the point was that Eternity in that case said, only PF had the power to heal him.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Death Cannot claim Souls from Oblivion either so what is your point???
the white room is a hospital for stranded universes that is healed without the person (in this case the Jean) had any idea of how to do it, and you are then saying that she can do it at will???

The point is that PF is above realities. And it also exists above realites, beyond time and space as said by Jean.


Originally posted by Utrigita
And Galactus has been mentioned just as many times as doing this.


Never been mentioned to be the power behind creation, never been mentioned as a big bang, never been mentioned to be the power of all stars in existence.

Also Watcher said that PF starts the creation and the one that consumes it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Then it is a luck there is three of them and since Eternity struggled with just a hand I would really like to see the three of them fighting like a unite against abstracts, team without LT gets defeated.

WPTOC also manipulated with Eternity at will and also easily.
Even LT said the power of the PF is too great for the Multiverse.

PF puts them down.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It seems WPOTC can manipulate realities at will.

Nah friend,
it took Jean alot of prep (7 pages) just to amputate reality 15104's Future,
and,
she had to enter into the White Hot Room, (a Hospitol)
in order to repair said Future by atomic manipulation.

At will is when a being gestures, or speaks a word and the Universe is re-ordered.

There is no Phoenix host that has ever done that.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Even Death cannot claim the souls from WPOTC.
That doesn't really mean much X.

Death can't claim some Asgardian souls and Olympians either,
Death can't claim Marvel's Lucifer's souls either, and others.
Originally posted by Xplosive
It was mentioned many times that Phoenix Force is the big bang,

I remember it being mentioned once,
but can you show me where on panel has this ever occured?
I wanna see Phoenix being illustrated as the "big bang" in action,
I wanna see Phoenix exploding into a universe, or creating one atleast.


I can show you On Panel who the real Big Bang is ... Yes, it actually happening,
not some theoretical hyperbole.

Originally posted by Xplosive
that Phoenix Force is reponsible for the creation,

Right, now show us the PF creating the Marvel Universe.

I'll tell what, show us the PF creating just One Universe.
Originally posted by Xplosive
that PF is the all energy in the creation.
That Phoenix Force is the one that consumes it and end it.
Cut the jokes X,
I know your using sarcasm based on the 2005 hyper bullshit
that was running rampant about the PF.
Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't see any Infinite taking Phoenix Force down.

The Infinites destroy the opposition if it didn't have the LT.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Phoenix Force was being mentioned many times to be the ultimate power.
This is humor, I recognize it.
Originally posted by Xplosive
When Eternity was dying, it was also said that only Phoenix Force could heal it,
not even Living Tribunal.

That was an Aspect of Eternity (alternate universe)
and it's not the LT's or the Celestial's job to heal Eternity (the real deal)
letalone some Aspect of Eternity.

As for the healing, that's funny cause, Giraud never healed Eternity,
Giraud cauterized the cancer, but the damage the cancer had made,
was healed by the universe itself ... Not Phoenix.

Eternity healed on his own, under his own power:
...................................................................................

"by passing through the 'Scar of Eternity' ..
the STILL-HEALING Tear in the Space/Time Continuum
CAUTERIZED by the Phoenix"
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7683/g1xh1.th.jpg

CAUTERIZED: burn the skin or flesh of (a wound) with a heated instrument,
to stop bleeding or prevent the wound from becoming infected.
...................................................................................
Not exactly a doctor's operation ey ...
...................................................................................

Eternity was still healing on his own!


"How HEALS your INJURY?"
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4619/g2gc6.th.jpg
"Your concern does me honor Tribunal, the WOUND is closing slowly"
...................................................................................

Here is the actual SCAR in this Alternate Universe,

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1628/g3ar0.th.jpg
...................................................................................

"the One Who Knows (Stakar and Aleta) Enters the SCAR of Eternity"
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8918/g1qs2.th.jpg
"Behold the Raw Tissue Fiber of Existence, Eternity slowly HEALS from the Wound,
which were CAUTERIZED by Giraud, carrier of the Phoenix power"

CAUTERIZED: burn the skin or flesh of (a wound) with a heated instrument,
to stop bleeding or prevent the wound from becoming infected.
...................................................................................


Evidently, Eternity HEALS himself!


"Incredible, REALITY literally REGENERATING ITSELF, Pure Creation"
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1351/g2jg6.th.jpg
"the Journey through the Scar is at an end, let's see what lies Beyond Eternity"
...................................................................................


BTW.

That same Phoenix Avatar (Giraud) got manhandled like a child by Dormammu)
and Giraud had his team with em, they all got owned.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Galactus is also extremely powerful.

Normal Galactus is a non factor here.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Eternity also, but was already toyed by Infinites,

True.
Originally posted by Xplosive
but then again, didn't one of the Infinites had to sacrfice himself to restore a planet?
To restore all the Planets and Galaxies they had obliterated across the infinite Multiverse.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Death in terms of raw power isn't that much.

Death is one of the top Abstracts.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Living Tribunal is only second to TOAA.

But I think also without LT, the others would win.

I disagree.

Originally posted by Utrigita
So Eternity being trapped in by Night mare and then rescued by Strange is just a no go??? like the incident with Magus five Cosmic Cubes that put Eternity in a stasis and was healed by Galactus and gamora???

these incident are just invalid???



Death Cannot claim Souls from Oblivion either so what is your point???
the white room is a hospital for stranded universes that is healed without the person (in this case the Jean) had any idea of how to do it, and you are then saying that she can do it at will???



And Galactus has been mentioned just as many times as doing this.



Then it is a luck there is three of them and since Eternity struggled with just a hand I would really like to see the three of them fighting like a unite against abstracts, team without LT gets defeated.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah friend,
it took Jean alot of prep (7 pages) just to amputate reality 15104's Future,
and,
she had to enter into the White Hot Room, (a Hospitol)
in order to repair said Future by atomic manipulation.

It doesn't matter how many pages. That doesn't say actually say anything. That is actually a humor.
In What if when Dark Phoenix destroyed and alternate Universe like nothing, it was only one page.
Then you have Phoenix doing lesser things in more pages.
Then you have Phoenix being defeated by Xorneto, then you have in What if Vulcan destroying galaxies and Shi'ar Empire, AW and Kree Empire like nothing. I mean... It really doesn't say completely anything.
(And then you bring back a scene with Xorneto. It doesn't say anything, you like to bring that up because Phoenix being owned by a lesser being, although you know PF is immeasurably beyond him).

And you said yourself, is WPOTC when not seen, repairing timelines, generally time and space, possibly, but you yet have to see that on panel.
I haven't seen that on panel, except what you said now, but I think she's doing that all the time, because that is the Phoenix work.

Originally posted by Mr Master
At will is when a being gestures, or speaks a word and the Universe is re-ordered.

She was doing at will. The PF power alone effortlessly had the power to do that.
Vulcan in What if did with a gesture with Krakoa island.
I know an Island is not big.

Why couldn't LT remove a Galactus with a gesture, something that HOM Wanda could probably, certainly do?


Originally posted by Mr Master
I remember it being mentioned once,
but can you show me where on panel has this ever occured?
I wanna see Phoenix being illustrated as the "big bang" in action,
I wanna see Phoenix exploding into a universe, or creating one atleast.

It was mentioned more times and mentioned more times that PF is a power behind the creation
Did it happen on panel, not no really. The Universe already exists.
I know what will you say next.

Reed Richards said that, also Watcher said that. It was also said on more occasions.
I mean, mentioned something like that more times cannot be a coincidence.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, now show us the PF creating the Marvel Universe.

I'll tell what, show us the PF creating just One Universe.

I cannot show you that happening, but mentioned all the times.
You know that was said, but you are convincing yourself, that cannot be true that PF isn't really all that. I know you are waiting for that to be shown on a panel. Probably even after that you would have a hard time accepting that.
But it was mentioned many times, fact.

PF alone takes them down as, of course, so does LT.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is humor, I recognize it.

No, not really, if PF is truly behind the power of the creation, you need that to be shown on a panel. If it will be shown, because words are not enough for you, then it won't be a humor anymore.
I already think PF is that.
Then would PF also be in your eyes the ultimate power.

You take offical bios seriously (I know you didn't take Protege seriously, even with the fact it had happened on panel, you took it seriously when it was actually mentioned in official bios).
Doesn't it say that Phoenix Force saved all existence from eternal damnation? I think it does.
So you could start to consider thinking that PF is actually all that.
But you have to wait for that to happen on panel.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Remove tribunal and atleast it could be a little fight.

Yep. Although ultimately the Infinites would win.

Originally posted by Xplosive
You take offical bios seriously (I know you didn't take Protege seriously, even with the fact it had happened on panel, you took it seriously when it was actually mentioned in official bios).
I didn't take Protege seriously initially because many funny occurances take place in GOTG,
perhaps the Future is funny like that,
but it was confirmed in LT's official bio so it's accepted.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Doesn't it say that Phoenix Force saved all existence from eternal damnation?
I think it does.

I've seen several On Panel accounts re-calling the previous Universe, even illustrated,
never once have I seen Phoenix mentioned.

I've seen Galactus' origin depicted 6 times now On Panel,
never once was Phoenix mentioned.

So On Panel >>> Bio ... any day.
Originally posted by Xplosive
So you could start to consider thinking that PF is actually all that.
But you have to wait for that to happen on panel.
Something like that.

edit.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It doesn't matter how many pages. That doesn't say actually say anything.

Actually it speaks volumes,
besides the fact that Jean herself said,
during those Seven pages she was coordinating a disinfection.
(she had to do so much Prep that X-Men died in the meantime)

It took Phoenix A LOT of TIME to amputate that Future/Timeline,
enough time that her friends were dying all around her,
including Wolverine at the hands of Sublime while she was working on the "amputation"

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8941/1cl0.th.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/33/2bt9.th.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7392/3hv2.th.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9765/4kq4.th.jpg

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3948/5qz8.th.jpg
.....................................................

But don't take my word for it, here is Jean in her own words:


"What's happening here is a Coordinated Disinfection,
my Friends were only KEEPING YOU BUSY"

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3322/6pp1.th.jpg
.....................................................

Finally, SEVEN PAGES later Phoenix amputates that Future.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1825/jeanxq3.th.jpg
.....................................................


MAD Prep ... to amputate a Timeline.

Originally posted by Xplosive
That is actually a humor.
I have no idea what this means.
Originally posted by Xplosive
In What if when Dark Phoenix destroyed and alternate Universe like nothing,
it was only one page.
Then you have Phoenix doing lesser things in more pages.
A 'What If' ... sad when that's the only source of evidence a character has,
considering most of us don't even take them seriously, or even canon.

Heck, you'll never see a "What If" story being referenced in a bio,
of any character ... any!

Btw ... Jean died with that "What If' reality, she was consumed as well.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Then you have Phoenix being defeated by Xorneto,
then you have in What if Vulcan destroying galaxies and Shi'ar Empire, AW and Kree Empire like nothing. I mean... It really doesn't say completely anything.
(And then you bring back a scene with Xorneto. It doesn't say anything, you like to bring that up because Phoenix being owned by a lesser being, although you know PF is immeasurably beyond him).

The mistake you're making friend, is your comparing bullshit 'What If' stories
with events that are 100% Canon to Marvel's continuity.

Xorn killing Jean
and exploding the Phoenix Force into a Billion pieces
happened in a mainstream X-Men issue,
and was referenced again On Panel by Beast in the Decimation arc,
and also referenced On Panel by the Phoenix Force itself in Endsong,
and then was confirmed in the official Marvel handbook bio.

.....................................................

Here is the proof:
.....................................................

Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey (top Phoenix host)

on panel

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3669/1vd7.th.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5718/2eb7.th.jpg
.....................................................

Beast remembers:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1715/jeandiesuj7.th.jpg
.....................................................

This incident involving Xorn & Jean
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1430/pfbillioncl9.th.jpg
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"
.....................................................

And it's all confirmed in the Phoenix Force's Official Marvel Bio:

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1528/pf1ih0.th.jpg

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
.....................................................

Now go and try to find the PF destroying that 'What If' reality
mentioned in any other story On Panel ...
or in an official Marvel Handbook ...

It's not gonna happen.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And you said yourself, is WPOTC when not seen, repairing timelines,
generally time and space, possibly, but you yet have to see that on panel.
I haven't seen that on panel, except what you said now,
but I think she's doing that all the time, because that is the Phoenix work.
Cool, but I don't see how this makes Phoenix a more threatening opponent.

Giraud (Phoenix Avatar) cauterized Eternity's cancer,
and then (with his team) gets owned simultaneously by normal Dormammu.
Originally posted by Xplosive
She was doing at will. The PF power alone effortlessly had the power to do that.
No she did not, but if you wish to believe that, have fun.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Vulcan in What if did with a gesture with Krakoa island.
I know an Island is not big.
You shouldn't even mention Vulcan,
he completely embarrassed the PF Corps,
and the PF itself.

Thankfully it was a "What If' so we'll ignore the stomp (Vulcan kills every Avatar)

Originally posted by Xplosive
Why couldn't LT remove a Galactus with a gesture,
something that HOM Wanda could probably, certainly do?
Show me Wanda removing Galactus while keeping the Omniverse intact.

Wanda can remove Galactus,
but then she has to remake him or supplement him
if she wants the Omniverse to exist.

That's why imo, LT couldn't do it with a gesture.

Heck just returning Galactus to his "Natural State" (not erased)
caused the Prime Multiverse to begin a collapse (Abraxas)


LT has proven to have the power to replace the 616 Reality with the Ultimate Universe.
(that's ridiculously impressive)

Originally posted by Xplosive
It was mentioned more times
and mentioned more times that PF is a power behind the creation
I know it makes me chuckle too.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Reed Richards said that, also Watcher said that.
It was also said on more occasions.
I mean, mentioned something like that more times cannot be a coincidence.
It was only mentioned by Reed once, and he wasn't even concrete in what he said.
He said, "the big bang, or the pf, or what have you"

And he was wrong this time, cause as we saw On Panel,
the Omniversal Big Bang is ... the Alien Entity,
the Multiversal Big Bang is ... Entropy,
Universal Big Bangs happen on their own, according to Ultimate Reed,
who actually harnessed one and attacked Gah Lak Tus with it.
.............................................................

Watcher said the PF is the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang.

But either the ol' Watcher is wrong, or it's been retconned,
cause On Panel the Alien Entity pulled the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang
out of its chest:

The Alien Entity extracts the "SPARK" that ignites the Big Bang:


Which means the Alien Entity is the True "SPARK that ignites Creation" (ON Panel)

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/857/41971322ws8.th.jpg

"The Void. The Timeless, Spaceless ... Pre-Creation hesitation ...

the Nothing that existed before there was existence.

The Void ... all that is, all that was, before what you call ... the Big Bang."


..................................................................................................


Here it is On Panel,

the "SPARK that ignites Creation" doing exactly that:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3888/14819650xd7.th.jpg

Reed says,

"Are you saying that WE ... You, and I ... that Our Desire to understand ...

was the SPARK that Lit the Fire of Creation?"


The Alien Entity responds,

"There is but one way to be sure ... Let There Be Light"


http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7271/97778926vg9.th.jpg

"Let the Universe itself ... Become!"


..................................................................................................


The Alien Entity releases the Creation of All that is (Omniverse) at light speed:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6941/10de8.th.jpg

"In the Void that was there before the Big Bang, before everything that is, was ...

in that silent Creation hesitation, the Entity asked a question,

and now ... that Question ... has SPARKED the Engines of Creation"
.............................................................


See X ... that's what you call On Panel evidence.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I cannot show you that happening, but mentioned all the times.
You know that was said, but you are convincing yourself, that cannot be true that PF isn't really all that. I know you are waiting for that to be shown on a panel. Probably even after that you would have a hard time accepting that.
But it was mentioned many times, fact.

If it happens on panel, and even better is corroborated in an official bio,
I'll state the Truth as I always have.
Originally posted by Xplosive
PF alone takes them down as, of course, so does LT.
I disagree.
Originally posted by Xplosive
No, not really, if PF is truly behind the power of the creation,
you need that to be shown on a panel.
If it will be shown, because words are not enough for you,
then it won't be a humor anymore.
I already think PF is that.
Then would PF also be in your eyes the ultimate power.
Phoenix Force will never be the ultimate power, because I know it isn't.
To think that is folly.

On Panel and Bio evidence has shown us that
the Phoenix Force is a Universal force of nature = to the other Abstracts.
Only Abraxas/Entropy/Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion are above the PF out of the Concepts,
normal Galactus is not more powerful than the PF,
but big G is more important to reality instead.

team for the win

obsessed much?

Originally posted by xjustice69x
team for the win
I agree ... they have the LT.
Originally posted by xjustice69x
obsessed much?
Peace & love yall. stoned

About Dormammu, well Dormammu was stomped with extreme ease by Rachel in alternate Universe.

Everything you shown, you shown many times. It never changes anything.
But PF was mentioned many times as a Big Bang. In Galactus origin, it wasn't mentioned as a PF, but it was mentioned some fiery creating... It could be assumed that was the PF, especially because in bios mentioning that actually PF save all existence (maybe Marvel is making that up ), so it connects very well and it's a fact that PF was mentioned quite a times for being that what I said (the creator or big bang).
Reed said big bang or PF, call it whatever you want,. It's obvious he meant PF=big bang.

In recent What if, it should be considered as canon for PF, it was even Jean in the story (who was behind Vulcan actions, so how is that Vulcan embarrassing PF?), Vulcan killing other avatars from different universes... (everything happened, because Jean allowed it).

Originally posted by Mr Master
If it happens on panel, and even better is corroborated in an official bio,
I'll state the Truth as I always have.

No doubt, but I am almost sure, you wouldn't like that to happen, they show that on panel. And don't say, that won't happen. Yeah right.

Tell me, what is this:

PF brought cosmos into being and is the fire that ultimate consumes it. Also Watcher said that:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823165273.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822504460.jpg

PF is the big bang and actually created everything, ''All that is... I am'',
and then literal memories of the PF how it's the big bang and it shows:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341872.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg

PF, power of the creation:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822474849.jpg

Eternity says the Force gives life to everything, when it starts the cycle again after the death of the old one (resurrection force, assurance of life from death - a new beginning from the ashes of cold. Pretty much said, PF is behind the creation or it powers all life):

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27415324393.jpg

Also in Ultimate it's considered the Big Bang.

Wasn't it also said that in process, evolved humanity will replace abstracts, also LT, hence LT bowing down.
The process being powered by PF.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix Force will never be the ultimate power, because I know it isn't.To think that is folly.

On Panel and Bio evidence has shown us that
the Phoenix Force is a Universal force of nature = to the other Abstracts.
Only Abraxas/Entropy/Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion are above the PF out of the Concepts,
normal Galactus is not more powerful than the PF,
but big G is more important to reality instead.


How wrong you are, Mr Master.

You know, what only bothers me about you, Mr Master, because you like bringing Xorn up, while you know that doesn't change anything about PF, because you know PF is immeasurably beyond him.

Originally posted by Xplosive
About Dormammu,
well Dormammu was stomped with extreme ease by Rachel in alternate Universe.
I don't care what Rachel did.

It was Giruad that cauterized Eternity's cancer,
it was Giraud that got stomped.

It just shows that "healing" a reality doesn't mean you are more powerful than said reality.

A doctor can operate on me, and "heal" me,
that doesn't mean once I'm well
I can't punch the Dr. in the face and knock him out with ease.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Everything you shown, you shown many times. It never changes anything.
I'm not trying to change anything, just posting facts.
Originally posted by Xplosive
But PF was mentioned many times as a Big Bang.
Once by Reed, if you paid any attention to the scans above,
you'll notice the "Spark" and the "Big Bang" itself is the Alien Entity,
who demonstrated it On Panel, not on hearsay.
Originally posted by Xplosive
In Galactus origin, it wasn't mentioned as a PF, but it was mentioned some fiery creating... It could be assumed that was the PF, especially because in bios mentioning that actually PF save all existence (maybe Marvel is making that up, so it connects very well and it's a fact that PF was mentioned quite a times for being that what I said (the creator or big bang).
This is complete bullshit ... sorry, had to call you out.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Reed said big bang or PF, call it whatever you want,. It's obvious he meant PF=big bang.
I don't care what he meant, he was wrong in every way.

On Panel ... the Alien Entity is the Omniversal Big Bang,
and the "Spark" that ignited said Big Bang.
(I just posted the PROOF ... don't become intransigent now)

On Panel ... Entropy is the Multiversal Big Bang.
(I have the scanned PROOF if you need it)
Originally posted by Xplosive
In recent What if, it should be considered as canon for PF, it was even Jean in the story (who was behind Vulcan actions, so how is that Vulcan embarrassing PF?), Vulcan killing other avatars from different universes... (everything happened, because Jean allowed it).
Show me where that's stated dogs.
You're making that up. I have the issue too,
Vulcan lost control because the PF is not compatible with negative emotions,
then Jean is depicted as gaining control again.
But Vulcan killed every Avatar,
and usurped the PF power for a while until he lost control.
Originally posted by Xplosive
No doubt, but I am almost sure, you wouldn't like that to happen,
they show that on panel. And don't say, that won't happen. Yeah right.
Now you're assuming to know what my future decisions and thoughts will be.

Don't go there.

I already said, when it happens On Panel, it will be legit.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Tell me, what is this:

PF brought cosmos into being and is the fire that ultimate consumes it.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823165273.jpg

(What ... based on gossip?)

You went right into the respect thread and swallowed what the poster added,
instead of reading the scan yourself.

The very first thing it states is:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5285/pfsotriesbc4.th.jpg
"They heard the stories"
...............................................................

Yea, I heard the theory too,
until the Alien Entity put that hype to rest On Panel concerning the Omniverse,
until Entropy put that hype to rest On Panel concerning the Multiverse,
until Ultimate Reed put that hype to rest On Panel concerning single Universes.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Also Watcher said that:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822504460.jpg
Yea Watcher said that, but he was WRONG!!!

You must've missed this:
Originally posted by Mr Master
Watcher said the PF is the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang.

But either the ol' Watcher is wrong, or it's been retconned,
cause On Panel the Alien Entity pulled the "Spark" that ignites the Big Bang
out of its chest:

The Alien Entity extracts the "SPARK" that ignites the Big Bang


Which means the Alien Entity is the True "SPARK that ignites Creation" (ON Panel)

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/857/41971322ws8.th.jpg

"The Void. The Timeless, Spaceless ... Pre-Creation hesitation ...

the Nothing that existed before there was existence.

The Void ... all that is, all that was, before what you call ... the Big Bang."
..................................................................................................


Here it is On Panel,

the "SPARK that ignites Creation" doing exactly that:


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3888/14819650xd7.th.jpg

Reed says,

"Are you saying that WE ... You, and I ... that Our Desire to understand ...

was the SPARK that Lit the Fire of Creation?"
..................................................................................................

The Alien Entity responds,

"There is but one way to be sure ... Let There Be Light"


http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7271/97778926vg9.th.jpg

"Let the Universe itself ... Become!"


..................................................................................................


The Alien Entity releases the Creation of All that is (Omniverse) at light speed:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6941/10de8.th.jpg

"In the Void that was there before the Big Bang, before everything that is, was ...

in that silent Creation hesitation, the Entity asked a question,

and now ... that Question ... has SPARKED the Engines of Creation"
.............................................................
In case you don't get it.

That's the Alien Entity On Panel creating the "SPARK" that ignited the original Big Bang,
that's the Alien Entity re-creating the Marvel Universe
through the Big Bang, which the Alien Entity embodies.

This isn't TALK dude ... this happened On Panel.
And is confirmed in Marvel's bios and at the Marvel.com site.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe


Please try and show me the Phoenix Force doing this.

Originally posted by Xplosive
PF is the big bang and actually created everything, ''All that is... I am'',
and then literal memories of the PF how it's the big bang and it shows:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341872.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg
You're still just copying & pasting the exaggerated claims made in the respect thread,
without re-viewing the scans for yourself.
No where in those scans does it depict Phoenix as the Big Bang,
or creating anything. Nice try.

The Phoenix Force clearly states, "This is HOW I came into being"

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1776/thisrs9.th.jpg
.....................................................................................

Or is it that you believe that Phoenix created everything before even Phoenix was created?

hum

Originally posted by Xplosive
PF, power of the creation:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822474849.jpg
Hyperbole!

Jean talking about herself and yet has never created even a single Reality.

Please.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Eternity says the Force gives life to everything, when it starts the cycle again after the death of the old one (resurrection force, assurance of life from death - a new beginning from the ashes of cold.

Pretty much said, PF is behind the creation or it powers all life)

It doesn't say Phoenix is behind creation or the power of life,
but I love your improve.

Originally posted by Xplosive
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27415324393.jpg

Wasn't it also said that in process, evolved humanity will replace abstracts, also LT, hence LT bowing down.
The process being powered by PF.
Jeesh, you were fooled by this too?
......................................................................

The truth with proof:


Scan 1: (Scan 1 & 2 are one page)


Here Eternity is explaining to Jean how the Universe works and how it has lead to US....

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/82/1tj1.th.jpg

Phoenix is NOT the Big Bang
and the scan clearly tells us the Celestials SEEDED the Universe
with Creation and the Celestials were created by Eternity.
......................................................................

(Scan 2)


Ok, here Eternity says,

"like Galactus was the sole survivor...
so shall Humanity Begin the End, End the Beginning."


NOTHING about Phoenix.


"Oblivion will embrace all ... creation will Renew itself"... (no need for Phoenix)

"And therein lies the Stranger's conceit"...

......................................................................

Ok, I'm sure you see now what the Stranger WANTS to BE ABLE to do...
what Humans WILL BE ABLE to do one day.

(Which is WHY they are BOWING to HIM in the scan)

because one day WE (Humans),
will NOT need the Abstracts or even the Living Tribunal...

they will be as NOTHING to US (Humans).

(Scan 2)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7654/2um6.th.jpg

"He plans to spark Humanity's Evolution Now ... to Engulf the cosmos."

......................................................................

How does he PLAN to do that?....

......................................................................

AT one time some even thought it would be with the power of Phoenix.

But after reviweing the arc, that was just the same ol' twisted bullshit hype.
......................................................................

(Scan 3 & 4)


The Stranger was going to use 5 (FIVE) individuals
to accomplish his "Spark in Humanity's Evolution Now ... to Engulf the cosmos"


Marko, Jean, Iceman, Toad, Mystique:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9540/3bk8.th.jpg
......................................................................

More Proof it was FIVE individuals the Stranger was going to use
to "Spark Humanity's Evolution Now ... to Engulf the cosmos" ...

NOT Phoenix ... NOT PHOENIX AT ALL ...
Jean didn't even have the Phoenix Force during this time.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4319/4jj0.th.jpg

"To pluck FIVE representative Earthlings to SERVE as his Evolutionary Vanguards"


notworthy------------------>nono

Originally posted by Xplosive
How wrong you are, Mr Master.

You know, what only bothers me about you, Mr Master,
because you like bringing Xorn up,
while you know that doesn't change anything about PF,
because you know PF is immeasurably beyond him.
Perhaps, but if Xorn touches Phoenix, it explodes into Billions of pieces,
according to 3 On Panel accounts, and the official Phoenix Force Bio.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're still just copying & pasting the exaggerated claims made in the respect thread,
without re-viewing the scans for yourself.
No where in those scans does it depict Phoenix as the Big Bang,
or creating anything. Nice try.

The Phoenix Force clearly states, "This is HOW I came into being"

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1776/thisrs9.th.jpg


It wasn't a try.
You missed where it said, ''All that is... I am''.
With the big bang it came into being. It could mean, with big bang it was reborn, as it existed before. Phoenix ended the previous universe, it was a big bang, made a new one, was reborn from previous universe and made a new one, hence the memories, memories also of the big bang and a quote, because it created a new, current universe, ''All that is...I am''.

Eternity says what Phoenix is, a ressureciton force, assurance of life from
death, a new beginning from the ashes of old.

What the heck, Xorn is a bad match up for PF, bad style and will always win against PF.
Maybe he is even above it.

The team wins this because of the LT. He would solo the Infinites. Without him, one less universe for the LT to oversee.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It wasn't a try.
You missed where it said, ''All that is... I am''.

So now Phoenix is the combination of Eternity & Infinity,

the plot thickens.
Originally posted by Xplosive
With the big bang it came into being. It could mean,
with big bang it was reborn, as it existed before.
You mean like all the Abstract Concepts?

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5866/niamru4.th.jpg
"Forces such as Entropy, Oblivion, Death, Life they remain constants through any Big Bang"
.....................................................................

Originally posted by Xplosive
Phoenix ended the previous universe,
Nah.

That was the Infinity Being, who was all, and all was him,
then died and created all realities in current Marvel:
...........................................

"This Being was the only Living Thing that Existed within Any and ALL Realities"
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1466/in1hy6.th.jpg
"ALL That Was and ALL that Was Was it "


Then Thanos says, I wouldn't blame you for calling it 'GOD' ...

What other name would fit?"

(which makes sense)
...........................................

"ALL That Was Was already Part of Itself ... there was NO Other in it's Life"
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7470/in2uq6.th.jpg
"It chose to put an End to itself ...

from it's Ashes rose ALL That is currently Reality ... in ALL it's many forms"
...........................................


Diana of the Dark Shoppe (of another Universe) basically tells the same tale:


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2944/in3gn0.th.jpg
"Many Millennia ago in your Universe, (the Prime Multiverse that is)
there was a God with the power of Infinity, even with control of ALL that is,
the God's loneliness could not be soothed, by his own hand he died"
...........................................

Mephisto also attested to this event on panel.


ALL Official and Canon according to the updated 2007 - IG bio.

Originally posted by Xplosive
it was a big bang, made a new one, was reborn from previous universe and made a new one, hence the memories, memories also of the big bang and a quote, because it created a new, current universe, ''All that is...I am''.
So now you're claiming that Phoenix ended the previous Universe,
and created the current Marvel Universe aswell.

I hope you're being sarcastic.
Originally posted by Xplosive
Eternity says what Phoenix is, a ressureciton force,
assurance of life from death, a new beginning from the ashes of old.
Sounds cute.
Originally posted by Xplosive
What the heck, Xorn is a bad match up for PF,
bad style and will always win against PF.
Maybe he is even above it.
stoned

Peace & love yall.

wow looks like marvel has more big bangs then one can count!
but which one is the real one?
i wonder how many more will turn up?

Originally posted by xjustice69x
wow looks like marvel has more big bangs then one can count!
Actually, there's only been a handfull.


1. The Infinity Being (previous universe) died (imploded)
then exploded (Big Bang-beginning of Time) into the current Marvel Universe.
(stated in the Thanos Quest arc, Infinity Gauntlet arc, Ultraforce/Avengers arc, & 07' IG bio)

2. Sis-neg in 1972 (Marvel was a single universe)
travelled to the beginning of time, (folding time & space)
from the void he re-created the original Big Bang.
(depicted/illustrated in Marvel Premiere #12-13)

3. Genis/Entropy in 2002 erased the Marvel Universe,
Entropy re-created Marvel by literally using his body as a Big Bang.
(depicted/illustrated in Captain Marvel #6)

4. Thanos/THOTI in 2003 erased the Marvel Universe,
then re-created a New Marvel Universe almost exactly the same in a Big Bang.
(depicted/illustrated in The End Marvel #6)

5. The Alien Entity in 2006 travelled to the beginning of time, (folding time & space)
then the Alien Entity ignited the Big Bang from within himself,
then used Reed's mind to create a New Marvel Universe exactly the same.
(depicted/illustrated in Fantastic Four #531-532)
.............................................................................

These are the only On Panel accounts we have,
where the Big Bang is actually artistically illustrated taking place.

Originally posted by xjustice69x
but which one is the real one?
They all are. They just occured at different points in history.
Originally posted by xjustice69x
i wonder how many more will turn up?
Well, someone would simply have to erase all of Marvel, thus turning it into a void,
and then re-create all of it again in Big Bang fashion.

befor this universe was formed the phoenix was not called the phoenix force ? it took tht mantel when it encounterd feron?