Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

One controls the Fabric of exsistance; Owen, the other the setting Frank.

that was franklin's first pocket universe, hes way above that level now. n yea molecule man loses ofcourse.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that was franklin's first pocket universe, hes way above that level now. n yea molecule man loses ofcourse.

Where has it shown that hes way above that now? Im still waiting for you to show me how Franklin create proper universe after proper universe on a whim as you claim. Tell me where this happened and i'll have the issue in an hour.

As it stands in their current forms MM wins no contest.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that was franklin's first pocket universe, hes way above that level now. n yea molecule man loses ofcourse.

Considering Franklin has been powerless for years now, if by "way above" you mean "way below", then yeah, I agree....

well im still waitin for the issue number where pheonix is said to be an ASPECT of the TOAA or his power. n honestly. i dun remember right now, it was a while back at a friend's house. all i do remember is that it had howard the duck in it as a companion of the wandering franklin. n franklin also met up with numinus in one of the universes if i remember right.

Molecule Man would win even without his powers.

n yes, even the old celestial level franklin wins.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
n honestly. i dun remember right now, it was a while back at a friend's house. all i do remember is that it had howard the duck in it as a companion of the wandering franklin. n franklin also met up with numinus in one of the universes if i remember right.

So in other words its fabricated right?

Its cool. Wynndars a F4 diehard i'll just ask him shall i?

Originally posted by demigawd
Considering Franklin has been powerless for years now, if by "way above" you mean "way below", then yeah, I agree....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So in other words its fabricated right?

Its cool. Wynndars a F4 diehard i'll just ask him shall i?


unlike u gs, i dont really love any comic character enough to fabricate stuff FOR THEM, i was quite happy with the way things were when franklin was at higher celestial level with a sumwhat greater potential. i just say what i read n see.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
unlike u gs, i dont really love any comic character enough to fabricate stuff FOR THEM, i was quite happy with the way things were when franklin was at higher celestial level with a sumwhat greater potential. i just say what i read n see.

And there you display your lack of understanding. Franklin wasnt at Celestial level with the potential to go higher. His full potential was to reach Celestial level. Get it right mate.

i don't think his potential can measured as he has not been written much.
A good storyline and he can go past or never reach celestial.

oh yea right, that means invisible woman can kill franklin too i suppose,
gs, the very fact that franklin resurrected galactus puts him way above celestial power level.

MM can turn Frank into shit.

Frank might have the power to defeat MM, but he is still a child.

And making pocket universe doesn't mean he wins.

This is the same shit I was talking to GS about

Force of Creation So what? He creates Universe so what?

If I shot him I would probably kill him.

Any arguments for Frank? I would like to hear them

mm is a monster this not even a match.mm would turn franklin into a pile of sh!t

Ahh but the one thing that all the heros seem to be afraid of is reality. Theyre all viaing to see who can get closest to the very fabric of it. Who has the most influence on it and what not.
I mean if you look at what M.M. does and who he and the Beyonder speak with. All those entities trying their hardest to survive. Then along comes Franklin Richards...and the F.F. being marvels premier book it comes as no surprise that they would load their own gun.
M.M would be on the defensive immediatly. And i love the guy. However Franklin would be able to imprison him within himself if he felt like it.
We gotta go with this earth being the primary thing of everything great and small.
Franklin so far is the greatest power ever. He'd beat the Beyonder eventually and he might well toppel the One Above All.
Being on earth is the greatest gift there is. Being one of the powerful on earth makes you more important than anyone else.
Today Franklin is top dog anywhere as far as i can tell.
He should, with a little luck and people like Reed and Cap protecting him have the necessary time to develope his powers for the benift of all things.
Of course my theory about Richards all hings on what his powers are. If indeed he is just a telepathic reality weilder then his powers are just great maybe just vastly beyond M.M. who at this time basicly is like cause and effect plus the physcial universes powers.
However is indeed he is developing into a young man who weilds reality itself and it has occured on the very place of origin; and if he is the original and the first one at that then that would indeed make Franklin worth even my attention.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
all i do remember is that it had howard the duck in it as a companion of the wandering franklin. n franklin also met up with numinus in one of the universes if i remember right.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So in other words its fabricated right?

Its cool. Wynndars a F4 diehard i'll just ask him shall i?

Actully he is right, Franklin has been simuntenously, not knowing, subsequently creating life when they were on journey through other alternate realities.
Than it was realized it was Franklin creating those world, life, alternate realities and, yes Howard he Duck.

even xplosive admitted it! lol. im not fabricating stuff, please.

franklin will easily destroy molecule man.

i doubt he'l become a threat to toaa wonderman, maybe hell reach true beyonder level {or slightly lower} but franklin is a great character n i hope marvel utilizes him.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Ahh but the one thing that all the heros seem to be afraid of is reality. Theyre all viaing to see who can get closest to the very fabric of it. Who has the most influence on it and what not.
I mean if you look at what M.M. does and who he and the Beyonder speak with. All those entities trying their hardest to survive. Then along comes Franklin Richards...and the F.F. being marvels premier book it comes as no surprise that they would load their own gun.
M.M would be on the defensive immediatly. And i love the guy. However Franklin would be able to imprison him within himself if he felt like it.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Ahh but the one thing that all the heros seem to be afraid of is reality. Theyre all viaing to see who can get closest to the very fabric of it. Who has the most influence on it and what not.
I mean if you look at what M.M. does and who he and the Beyonder speak with. All those entities trying their hardest to survive. Then along comes Franklin Richards...and the F.F. being marvels premier book it comes as no surprise that they would load their own gun.
M.M would be on the defensive immediatly. And i love the guy. However Franklin would be able to imprison him within himself if he felt like it.
We gotta go with this earth being the primary thing of everything great and small.
Franklin so far is the greatest power ever. He'd beat the Beyonder eventually and he might well toppel the One Above All.
Being on earth is the greatest gift there is. Being one of the powerful on earth makes you more important than anyone else.
Today Franklin is top dog anywhere as far as i can tell.
He should, with a little luck and people like Reed and Cap protecting him have the necessary time to develope his powers for the benift of all things.


Of course my theory about Richards all hings on what his powers are. If indeed he is just a telepathic reality weilder then his powers are just great maybe just vastly beyond M.M. who at this time basicly is like cause and effect plus the physcial universes powers.
However is indeed he is developing into a young man who weilds reality itself and it has occured on the very place of origin; and if he is the original and the first one at that then that would indeed make Franklin worth even my attention.

Good post, smart and realistic

Does even Franklin has any powers right now? Even if he has his powers there's no way he could beat Owen. Franklin is just a mutant with reality warping powers and if his powers can be burn out so easily do u think he really have a chance against one the the most powerful beings in the multiverse?

A another thing is that it is easy to block/cancel out mutant powers!

its not easy to block out franklin's power and what are u talkin about! his powers dont burn out at all, even after resurrecting galactus when every one thought that he had burned his powers out, he hadnt, they were just bein held back by his own mind he still retains all his soft psi powers and doesnt use the more powerful ones because he and reed believe that they can wipe out existance or sumthing

and please dont tell me that molecule man could resurrect galctus or creat universes

Dude, IMO EVEN IF Franklin had his powers (which doesnt have right now), he would still loose !!!

How...... Owen just comes around and disintegrates his head, the child is too stupid to know so !!!

Originally posted by ImmortalOne
Dude, IMO EVEN IF Franklin had his powers (which doesnt have right now), he would still loose !!!

How...... Owen just comes around and disintegrates his head, the child is too stupid to know so !!!

Precisely.

People please dont be so naive. Its not just about power its also about skill and experience. Noones doubting that Franklin is more powerful than MM however Franklin has little to no experience with high end application of his power. For the majority of the time since hes had his powers hes had dampeners placed around them and on top of that hes been powerless for quite some time now. Plus you must consider hes only a child. Yes Franklin is more powerful but with a thought hes stripped down to his component molecules. Game over.

Xavier made Franklin his b*tch and noones doubting hes dwarfed in power by lil Franklin. MM would rock the kid.

About Franklin Richards powers, they easily go above Molecule Man (I dont have problem seeing FR go beyond Galactus, and nature of FR powers offers him to go far beyond someone as Galactus), but the point is that when FR was creating alternate realities, he didnt even know it, his experience is nothing, no experience. How do we know he would know to use his powers. He probably wouldnt as a child against MM. He did subsequently, maybe against MM he wouldnt even do that. He as a child had already greater power than Molecule Man and than 95% or more beings in Marvel Universe, but he would lose the fight as a child to MM.

Originally posted by Xplosive
About Franklin Richards powers, they easily go above Molecule Man (I dont have problem seeing FR go beyond Galactus, and nature of FR powers offers him to go far beyond someone as Galactus), but the point is that when FR was creating alternate realities, he didnt even know it, his experience is nothing, no experience. How do we know he would know to use his powers. He probably wouldnt as a child against MM. He did subsequently, maybe against MM he wouldnt even do that. He as a child had already greater power than Molecule Man and than 95% or more beings in Marvel Universe, but he would lose the fight as a child to MM.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Precisely.

People please dont be so naive. Its not just about power its also about skill and experience. Noones doubting that Franklin is more powerful than MM however Franklin has little to no experience with high end application of his power. For the majority of the time since hes had his powers hes had dampeners placed around them and on top of that hes been powerless for quite some time now. Plus you must consider hes only a child. Yes Franklin is more powerful but with a thought hes stripped down to his component molecules. Game over.

Xavier made Franklin his b*tch and noones doubting hes dwarfed in power by lil Franklin. MM would rock the kid.


uhm, isnt creatin alternate universes without realizin a HIGH END APPLICATION? or how about resurrecting galactus?! stop this stupidity gs, even u should know that mm doesnt have a chance in HELL.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
uhm, isnt creatin alternate universes without realizin a HIGH END APPLICATION? or how about resurrecting galactus?! stop this stupidity gs, even u should know that mm doesnt have a chance in HELL.

For a start it was a pocket universe. Do i need to get Wynndar on here to finally and conclusively sh*t you up?

You need to understand its not just about power. Its about experience as well. Creating a pocket universe is a high end feat however Franklin never did it consciously as was made quite clear in the comics. If you asked him to create another pocket universe for you at the drop of a hat he couldnt because he wouldnt know how. It was done subconsciously. He has all that power but not a clue how to use it. On top of that he has had dampeners on fo rmost of his life and hes been powerless for a very long time now. The conscious application of his powers resulting in high end feats i svirtually non existent. That is what you need to understand. Yes hes more powerful, noone sdenying that , but with a thought hes dispatched by MM. Game over.

Ive used this example before. Its like a civilian in a state of the art fighter jet versus a trained fighter with a missile launcher. Who do you thinks gonna win?

u even heard explosive say it he was creatin REALITIES, nuthin was mentioned of them being POCKET. and dont u think franklin would have realized it when he ws in them. secondly u say hes had no expirience and hashad dampeners on for the most of his life ARE U FREAKIN KIDDIN ME GS. he aged himself and time travelled, grew up, aged, won many battles with the power pack and saved many realities. then he came back to the real world and psionically reduced his age. please dont tell me he doesnt have a clue on how to use them, ALSO when he resurrected galactus he did it KNOWINGLY AND CONCIENCOUSLY. n u saying that if sum1 told him to create another universe he wouldnt be able to do so is COMPLETELY ur own oppinion.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ive used this example before. Its like a civilian in a state of the art fighter jet versus a trained fighter with a missile launcher. Who do you thinks gonna win?

depends if its a harrier jump jet... those things are soo easy arnie can fly them...

If you were to say, "Thanos with Franklin Richard's powers vs. Molecule Man", all your points would be perfectly valid - Franlin Richards operates on a higher power level than Molecule Man.

But it's not "Thanos with Franklin Richard's power", or even "Xavier with Franklin Richard's powers", it's "six year old Franklin Richards with Franklin Richard's powers". That, to me, is the difference maker in this fight.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
u even heard explosive say it he was creatin REALITIES, nuthin was mentioned of them being POCKET. and dont u think franklin would have realized it when he ws in them. secondly u say hes had no expirience and hashad dampeners on for the most of his life ARE U FREAKIN KIDDIN ME GS. he aged himself and time travelled, grew up, aged, won many battles with the power pack and saved many realities. then he came back to the real world and psionically reduced his age. please dont tell me he doesnt have a clue on how to use them, ALSO when he resurrected galactus he did it KNOWINGLY AND CONCIENCOUSLY. n u saying that if sum1 told him to create another universe he wouldnt be able to do so is COMPLETELY ur own oppinion.

Im not denying he created realities but they were only pocket realities, not proper ones. You need to learn that.

The fact that it was stated that he created the pocket universe subconciously on panel and that since then or before then he's never consciously used his power to pull of anything remotely near that feat highly suggests he couldnt create a pocket universe at th edrop of that hat.

He has no true experience with his powers despite being more powerful he will lose in my opinion. Dont get mad because i dont share yours thats just pubescent.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not denying he created realities but they were only pocket realities, not proper ones. You need to learn that.

The fact that it was stated that he created the pocket universe subconciously on panel and that since then or before then he's never consciously used his power to pull of anything remotely near that feat highly suggests he couldnt create a pocket universe at th edrop of that hat.

He has no true experience with his powers despite being more powerful he will lose in my opinion. Dont get mad because i dont share yours thats just pubescent.


whatever

Did anybody name GS vs. Leon as a rivalry on the rivalry thread?

Originally posted by demigawd
Did anybody name GS vs. Leon as a rivalry on the rivalry thread?


nope, i gave up on that stuff realizin just how hopeless gs was.{was fun while it lasted though}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
uhm, isnt creatin alternate universes without realizin a HIGH END APPLICATION? or how about resurrecting galactus?! stop this stupidity gs, even u should know that mm doesnt have a chance in HELL.

GS knows that FR powers are beyond MM. But what he can do, I mean he is a child, I wouldnt be suprised if normal human would come to him and kill him with knife. His only chance would be to somehow get really scared of MM and do something in his mind, to make MM disapper, gone or something, which could come true and dispatch MM, but MM has much greater chance to defeat young Franklin, due to experince.
and like Demigawd said, if it would be Thanos with FR powers, than MM wouldnt be even a challenge.

this fight is like giving a child a gun agianst an adult. while the child has more power the adult could easily take the weapon away from the child because he doesnt know what to do with it.

FRs powers are not beyond that of the MM there's simply no evidence.

but franklin has proven to be more than just a scared lil kid hasnt he, i believe he defeated mephisto in his realm although i cant be sure of this.

Originally posted by Molecule man
FRs powers are not beyond that of the MM there's simply no evidence.

Far beyond.

sure he is a powerful being but still just a mutant. If some device can block his powers then MM won't have any trouble with him.

And please don't say that FR potential is celestial level, MMs true potential might be IG level

Originally posted by Molecule man
FRs powers are not beyond that of the MM there's simply no evidence.

They really are.

The cube beings are between the skyfathers and the likes of the Vishanti /Galactus/Celestials. Franklin Richards full power is said to be Celestial level.

If you want evidence of the cube beings place in the hierarchy then refer to F4 Annual 23.

I know youre going to say MM is the most powerful of the cube beings but thats only because of the way he applies his powers (not an actual higher amount of power) which is the result of his human mind as opposed to the other cube beings.

The cube beings can warp reality over a global scale. Franklin can create pocket universes. He has a far higher power level however he is a child and can not consciously use his power to do such things. Therefore MM wins.

Originally posted by Molecule man
sure he is a powerful being but still just a mutant. If some device can block his powers then MM won't have any trouble with him.

And please don't say that FR potential is celestial level, MMs true potential might be IG level


franklin richard's potential is not AT celesial level, its far greater, on the other hand mm is a cosmic cube n not the most powerful one at that anyway, and as such is below beings like celestials{who FR far surpasses} and galactus and definately does not have the potential of the infinity gauntlett.

in the infinity wars mephisto said that a cosmic cube without any restrictions is equal to the IG

Cosmic Cubes are bellow Celestail, its obvious and clear, so therefore MM is bellow Celestial. Celestail wouldnt have trouble of defeating someone as MM. MM sure is powerful, but not in league of Celestial. But FR is known that he would be on par with Celestail or more.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
franklin richard's potential is not AT celesial level, its far greater, on the other hand mm is a cosmic cube n not the most powerful one at that anyway, and as such is below beings like celestials{who FR far surpasses} and galactus and definately does not have the potential of the infinity gauntlett.


MM is the most powerful of the cube beings and we really don't know how powerful FR would be at full potential or MM.

We really shouldn't speculate in potential but current status. High Evo, Reed Richards and Doom all of them could build some device to cancel out mutant powers so FR isn't really all that

Originally posted by Molecule man
MM is the most powerful of the cube beings and we really don't know how powerful FR would be at full potential or MM.

We really shouldn't speculate in potential but current status. High Evo, Reed Richards and Doom all of them could build some device to cancel out mutant powers so FR isn't really all that

MM full potential is far bellow FR. MM full power would be far bellow FR.

Originally posted by Xplosive
MM full potential is far bellow FR. MM full power would be far bellow FR.

no evidence it is just your opinion

No, MM already with all his expereince and using power hasnt close shown power level of young Franklin. Like GS said, FR has a far higher power level.

MM have never been using his powers to their full potential (low self confidence, thought he couldn't effect organic molecule etc)

He did show some of his true potential in the fight against Beyonder in annual FF 27.

In their current status MM eats FR for breakfast LOL

Originally posted by leonheartmm
franklin richard's potential is not AT celesial level, its far greater, on the other hand mm is a cosmic cube n not the most powerful one at that anyway, and as such is below beings like celestials{who FR far surpasses} and galactus and definately does not have the potential of the infinity gauntlett.

Leon for the last time. Franklins full potential is STATED ON PANEL to be Celestial level. Stop fabricating Leon. I have asked all the F4 buffs on here and they dont know what the hell youre talking about. So stop.

Yes Franklin is more powerful than MM. Just leave it at that.

Originally posted by Molecule man
in the infinity wars mephisto said that a cosmic cube without any restrictions is equal to the IG

I have all of Inifinity Wars in digital format. Point me to the bit where he says that and i'll post a scan in minutes.

i don't remember where but im sure that he did say that somewhere

Originally posted by Molecule man
no evidence it is just your opinion

There is plenty of on panel evidence. The cube beings are below the Celestials in the hierarchy. In fact they are insects in comparison as per F4 Annual 23. Franklin at full potential is Celestial level as also stated on panel. Thats all that needs to be said on the matter.

MM is more powerful than the other cube beings because of how his human mind allows him to apply his powers, NOT because he can generate more energy then them. Either way in his battle with Beyonder he wasnt significantly beyond him or the other cube beings. On top of that Kubik stated that the cube beings were insects in comparison to a Celestial. So there you have it. Accept his limitations and lets move on.

MM wins.

maybe Kubik meant the whole celestial race and not a single celestial

Originally posted by Molecule man
i don't remember where but im sure that he did say that somewhere

I dont remember and i read it just a few months ago. I certainly would've made a mental note if something as potentially hierarchy shaking as that was mentioned. I didnt therefore thats a fabrication. No matter. MM wins this battle anyway so no need for that.

Originally posted by Molecule man
maybe Kubik meant the whole celestial race and not a single celestial

No because he specifically said A celestial. I'll look for a scan on my pc. Gimme 5 mins.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Leon for the last time. Franklins full potential is STATED ON PANEL to be Celestial level. Stop fabricating Leon. I have asked all the F4 buffs on here and they dont know what the hell youre talking about. So stop.

Yes Franklin is more powerful than MM. Just leave it at that.

ok just answer me this, plainly, can a single celestial resurrect galactus and give balance back to eternity{n im not mentionin the universe creation cause ull just dismiss it}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ok just answer me this, plainly, can a single celestial resurrect galactus and give balance back to eternity{n im not mentionin the universe creation cause ull just dismiss it}

Well given that his full potential is stated on panel to be Celestial level then yeah i guess so.

Galactus can absorb the energies of universes but he doesnt as he has a role to perform in the universe.

The celestials have been seen on panel to toss planets around like theyre nothing so you shouldnt doubt their power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No because he specifically said A celestial. I'll look for a scan on my pc. Gimme 5 mins.

I guess you don't have any evidence

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well given that his full potential is stated on panel to be Celestial level then yeah i guess so.

Galactus can absorb the energies of universes but he doesnt as he has a role to perform in the universe.

The celestials have been seen on panel to toss planets around like theyre nothing so you shouldnt doubt their power.


i said a straight answer no cause they can do this or not, just a yes or no, can a single celestial resurrect galactus and give balance back to eternity?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i said a straight answer no cause they can do this or not, just a yes or no, can a single celestial resurrect galactus and give balance back to eternity?

Given that Franklins potential is stated to be Celestial level then YES

GS can't post any scans right now. He's sending me music. Leave him alone!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Given that Franklins potential is stated to be Celestial level then YES


just a simple yes or no, no given this n that.

Originally posted by demigawd
GS can't post any scans right now. He's sending me music. Leave him alone!

Uh-huh. Listen to him guys.

MM you should never be so quick to fire off your mouth. You only make yourself look very silly in the long run :

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374125&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by leonheartmm
just a simple yes or no, no given this n that.

From what i said you were still able to gather that i was saying yes. So stop making a big deal outta nothing.

Kubik said celestials not one single celestial

Originally posted by Molecule man
Kubik said celestials not one single celestial

Yet one Celestial was present in the scan and on top of that he said WE are as nothing to them. Which renders your point null and void.

Stop being so fallacious MM its really not necessary Molecule man wins this hes just defintely not more powerful than Franklin.

Originally posted by Molecule man
Kubik said celestials not one single celestial

mmm.....nah, didn't work.

Originally posted by demigawd
mmm.....nah, didn't work.

lol

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i said a straight answer no cause they can do this or not, just a yes or no, can a single celestial resurrect galactus and give balance back to eternity?

Wasnt shown or even mentioned, but probably he could.