Original Abomination (at that time, he first appeared) vs. Classic Juggernaut

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Betageuze
two of the main-Hulk-opponents...

Original Abomination has beaten Hulk nearly to death

Classic Juggernaut can stalemate a very angry Hulk... perhaps beat him sometimes...


who will survive an one on one encounter between those two

newjak86
Juggernaut Overall just better than Abom. All Abom has is strength and not much of anything else.Has decent endurance and durability but not anywhere close to Jugs. Plus Abom doesn't have a healing factor and if he has any it is very slight and hasn'y helped him in any fights. He can't increase his strength while Juggs can.

guy222
emil

Jonathanos
I think this is a stalemate. Abomination's too strong and Juggernaut's too durable.

llagrok
Juggernaut.

Bouboumaster
They fight until Hulk arrives and clean the room.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
They fight until Hulk arrives and clean the room. Naw, that's Wonder Woman's job.

Accel
I'd probably go for a stalemate as well. Emil ainít putting Cain down, but I have a hard time seeing Cain do that to Emil either.

lft4ded
Juggernaut, wins this. His strength has almost always been a match for any Hulk he's faced (taking War Hulk into account). And none of them have been able to actually hurt him yet (War Hulk or WWH). He'll match the original, twice-as-strong, Abomination and beat him into unconsciousness easily within a few pages.

My opinion of course.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by lft4ded
Juggernaut, wins this. His strength has almost always been a match for any Hulk he's faced (taking War Hulk into account). And none of them have been able to actually hurt him yet (War Hulk or WWH). He'll match the original, twice-as-strong, Abomination and beat him into unconsciousness easily within a few pages.

My opinion of course.

To be honest its not just you opinion i regard it as fact. Classic full powered Juggernaut is the same strength level as an enraged Hulk, which means Abomination at his original twice as strong level (which is about 200tons) hasn't got any strength advantage. As Juggernaut is completely invulnerable to injury while Abomination just has high durability and a lower hf than Hulk, its a definite win for Juggy

Jonathanos
Abomination at his original levels beat an enraged Hulk and left Hulk dying on the ground.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Newjak
Juggernaut Overall just better than Abom. All Abom has is strength and not much of anything else.Has decent endurance and durability but not anywhere close to Jugs. Plus Abom doesn't have a healing factor and if he has any it is very slight and hasn'y helped him in any fights. He can't increase his strength while Juggs can.

When has juggs ever increased his strength?

snoopdogg
Juggernaut wins.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by lft4ded
Juggernaut, wins this. His strength has almost always been a match for any Hulk he's faced (taking War Hulk into account). And none of them have been able to actually hurt him yet (War Hulk or WWH). He'll match the original, twice-as-strong, Abomination and beat him into unconsciousness easily within a few pages.

My opinion of course. Good points. Using War Hulk and WWHulk as examples. Considering those versions of Hulk trump the version Abom. left for dead. Didn't Juggy leave Hulk for dead once?

johnv89
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When has juggs ever increased his strength?

I think in the 8th day series.

Hannibal-Lector
he doesnt "increase" so much as call upon more of the infinite source that is Cyttorak (classic and i guess most recently current) http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m179/Ptr_Grifin/Juggy_vote1.jpg

Accel
Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
he doesnt "increase" so much as call upon more of the infinite source that is Cyttorak (classic and i guess most recently current) http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m179/Ptr_Grifin/Juggy_vote1.jpg
That's not even really an official stance at Marvel.

The rest of the newsletter is clipped out, but they go on to say that their opinions can be swayed by more fanmail.

lando005
i would say abom at original levels would have the defiante strength advantange over juggs but he would still beunalbe to harm him, at best knock him around a bit. Juggs would out last him though, i see this being a stalemate

CaptainStoic
I see Juggernaut as the clear victor time and again. The Abomination will be out lasted, worn out and defeated every time.
Unless someone can prove that The Abomination hits harder than Mjolnir, Cain won't feel a thing.



Juggernaut 10/10

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Abomination at his original levels beat an enraged Hulk and left Hulk dying on the ground.

He certainly did, but this was in a very early Hulk story in Tales to Astonish#90. At that point in time the Hulk's base strength was less than it went on to become. Admittedly the majority of Hulks wins over Abomination were when his strength was halved to 100tons. But in Hulk#270 the savage Hulk encounters a fully powered 200ton Abomination and still beats the crap out of him. The reason being that Hulk was now far more powerful than when they 1st fought and his anger quiclky got him to the Abominations level of strength-something he couldn't do in their 1st fight before Emil nearly killed him. Juggernaut however is probably already the same level of strength as 200ton Abomination and can't be hurt by physical force- so theres no stalemate-Juggy wears down Abomination and knocks him out

golem370
Juggernaut withstood Lighting God Force with no damage could the Abomination say the same?

Galan007
Originally posted by golem370
Juggernaut withstood Lighting God Force with no damage could the Abomination say the same? I doubt it.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Accel
That's not even really an official stance at Marvel.

The rest of the newsletter is clipped out, but they go on to say that their opinions can be swayed by more fanmail. There must have not bee enough fan-mail sent in then. Because in the Green Mail in Hulk #465 or so they said basically the same thing. It's not clear who is stronger but if you go by their fights I would say Juggy is because:

1. Juggy pushed War Hulk all over Egypt.
2. Juggy held Proff. Hulk underwater against his own will with one hand.
3. Juggy ever so slightly pushed WWHulk back.

lando005
war hulk stop juggs and pushed him back remember

snoopdogg
Originally posted by lando005
war hulk stop juggs and pushed him back remember Juggy was pushing him back while War Hulk was using his own strength. Then War Hulk started to use the plot-device to stop Juggy. Hence the green energy coming from Hulks body at the time.

SuperiorTech
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Juggy was pushing him back while War Hulk was using his own strength. Then War Hulk started to use the plot-device to stop Juggy. Hence the green energy coming from Hulks body at the time.


In this particular instance it was really not a test of strength juggs enchantment was in play being unstoppable when he is in motion.The test of strength was when they fought in wwh x-men.



http://img153.imagevenue.com/loc985/th_85076_The_Incredible_Hulk_v2_-_457_-_03_122_985lo.jpghttp://img197.imagevenue.com/loc6/th_85082_The_Incredible_Hulk_v2_-_457_-_04_122_6lo.jpghttp://img196.imagevenue.com/loc502/th_85105_The_Incredible_Hulk_v2_-_457_-_05_122_502lo.jpghttp://img25.imagevenue.com/loc1043/th_85115_The_Incredible_Hulk_v2_-_457_-_06_122_1043lo.jpg

golem370
It would be a site to behold 8th Day Juggernaut in a punch for punch match with WWH or War Hulk.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by golem370
It would be a site to behold 8th Day Juggernaut in a punch for punch match with WWH or War Hulk. I would say Classic Juggernaut was doing just fine in a punch for punch match.

golem370
I would have to see the scans again.

BUSTER1
Remember this is Original 200ton strength Abomination vs Classic Juggernaut-NOT Hulk vs Juggernaut-that is already on another thread

Faceman
Juggs, wins this...

BUSTER1
Juggernaut beats any other Marvel top tier brick in a slugfest, if written correctly-Abomination won't be able to hurt him, but he will be able to hurt Abomination

snoopdogg
Originally posted by BUSTER1
Remember this is Original 200ton strength Abomination vs Classic Juggernaut-NOT Hulk vs Juggernaut-that is already on another thread Didn't Hulk already beat down "original" strength Abom. in issue # 270?

BUSTER1
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Didn't Hulk already beat down "original" strength Abom. in issue # 270?

I know -I've already stated this on this thread

Jonathanos
Originally posted by BUSTER1
He certainly did, but this was in a very early Hulk story in Tales to Astonish#90. At that point in time the Hulk's base strength was less than it went on to become. Admittedly the majority of Hulks wins over Abomination were when his strength was halved to 100tons. But in Hulk#270 the savage Hulk encounters a fully powered 200ton Abomination and still beats the crap out of him. The reason being that Hulk was now far more powerful than when they 1st fought and his anger quiclky got him to the Abominations level of strength-something he couldn't do in their 1st fight before Emil nearly killed him. Juggernaut however is probably already the same level of strength as 200ton Abomination and can't be hurt by physical force- so theres no stalemate-Juggy wears down Abomination and knocks him out

Juggernaut is not as strong as Abomination's original level. That's silly. Normal Abomination is able to go toe-to-toe with an enraged Hulk and sometimes he even has the edge for a while. At his original strength, he's twice that.

Hulk was able to beat Abomination in IH #270 because Abomination underestimated Hulk. Hulk was face down, half-buried and Abomination walked away, thinking Hulk already was unconscious or dead. That gave Hulk the chance he needed to recover. Prior to that, it was a repeat of their first fight, with Hulk overwhelmed by Abomination's far superior strength.

Jonathanos
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Unless someone can prove that The Abomination hits harder than Mjolnir

It's pretty clear based on the effects their hits have had on the Hulk that the Abomination at his original level hits a lot harder than Mjolnir.

Jonathanos
Originally posted by snoopdogg
There must have not bee enough fan-mail sent in then. Because in the Green Mail in Hulk #465 or so they said basically the same thing. It's not clear who is stronger but if you go by their fights I would say Juggy is because:

1. Juggy pushed War Hulk all over Egypt.
2. Juggy held Proff. Hulk underwater against his own will with one hand.
3. Juggy ever so slightly pushed WWHulk back.

Juggernaut has a mystical ability that makes him "unstoppable."

Hulk is stronger than Ajax but Ajax forced Hulk's head underwater with one hand.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Juggernaut is not as strong as Abomination's original level. That's silly. Normal Abomination is able to go toe-to-toe with an enraged Hulk and sometimes he even has the edge for a while. At his original strength, he's twice that.

Hulk was able to beat Abomination in IH #270 because Abomination underestimated Hulk. Hulk was face down, half-buried and Abomination walked away, thinking Hulk already was unconscious or dead. That gave Hulk the chance he needed to recover. Prior to that, it was a repeat of their first fight, with Hulk overwhelmed by Abomination's far superior strength.

Juggernaut being original Abominations strength ain't silly. Juggernaut at his full classic stenth level was a match in strength for the WWH, who when enraged was at a higher level of strength than Original Abomination. And in Hulk #270 the Hluk was far more powerful than he was in his 1st fight with Abomination in Tales to Astonish, otherwise the initial beating he received from Abomination, in Hulk 270 would have at least rendered him unconscious. All the fights that Hulk had with Abomination, when Emil was at 100ton strength level, should have been very 1 sided in favour of the Hulk as his anger would quickly raise his strength to a much higher level than Abominations. They were always shown to be even though for the purpose of the story

juggernaut74
Juggernaut wins. He's got Abom. beat in all areas. Emil's strength wasn't enough to finish off Hulk in issue #270 it sure as hell won't be enough to finish off Juggy.

strengthkills
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Juggernaut wins. He's got Abom. beat in all areas. Emil's strength wasn't enough to finish off Hulk in issue #270 it sure as hell won't be enough to finish off Juggy.

It would be Emil smacking Juggs around for the whole comic,except Juggs wouldnt be KOD.

Jonathanos
Originally posted by BUSTER1
Juggernaut being original Abominations strength ain't silly. Juggernaut at his full classic stenth level was a match in strength for the WWH, who when enraged was at a higher level of strength than Original Abomination. And in Hulk #270 the Hluk was far more powerful than he was in his 1st fight with Abomination in Tales to Astonish, otherwise the initial beating he received from Abomination, in Hulk 270 would have at least rendered him unconscious. All the fights that Hulk had with Abomination, when Emil was at 100ton strength level, should have been very 1 sided in favour of the Hulk as his anger would quickly raise his strength to a much higher level than Abominations. They were always shown to be even though for the purpose of the story

Hulk was facing more than just the Juggernaut's strength; he was also having to deal with the "unstoppability".

In Hulk #270, despite his increase in power over the years, despite his fury over the genocide perpetrated by Abomination, the Hulk was rendered nearly unconscious by a few hits.

In JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #112, Hulk and Thor were evenly matched. (That fight occured before ASTONISH #90.) If there was a big difference in Hulk's power level over the years, you would expect him to overpower Thor with ease. But no. Thor's strength continues to rival Hulk's in their battles.

Classic Juggernaut compared his strength to Thor's. Juggernaut and Thor have never come close to kayoing Hulk with a few hits, much less leaving him dying on the ground. Even when he disguised himself so Merged Hulk would hold back, it took Juggernaut some time to defeat Hulk.

At his normal level, Abomination once punched it out with the Hulk until both were on the brink of unconsciousness. He was able to go toe-to-toe with Hulk who was angry over Betty being "hurt"... and it could be argued that Abomination had the advantage prior to taunting Hulk about her death. Thor and Juggernaut are not twice as strong as someone who is able to match a very enraged Hulk.

And, sorry, "all the fights were PIS" is not a valid argument.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by strengthkills
It would be Emil smacking Juggs around for the whole comic,except Juggs wouldnt be KOD. Emil won't be smacking sh!t around. WWHulk couldn't smack Juggy around Emil isn't gonna be anytime soon.

h1a8
The thing is that Emil doesn't have infinite stamina. Whether he is stronger than Juggs or not is moot. The only facts that are needed are:

1. Juggs have unlimited stamina
2. Emil can't hurt Juggs

With that said, Emil at least losses due to the time factor (not having unlimited stamina). Cased closed.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by h1a8
The thing is that Emil doesn't have infinite stamina. Whether he is stronger than Juggs or not is moot. The only facts that are needed are:

1. Juggs have unlimited stamina
2. Emil can't hurt Juggs

With that said, Emil at least losses due to the time factor (not having unlimited stamina). Cased closed. That works for me I guess.

strengthkills
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Emil won't be smacking sh!t around. WWHulk couldn't smack Juggy around Emil isn't gonna be anytime soon.

WWH versus Original Strength Emil would have been the best battle in that series.

Juggs strength isnt up there with either,his enchantments keep him competitive.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by strengthkills
WWH versus Original Strength Emil would have been the best battle in that series.

Juggs strength isnt up there with either,his enchantments keep him competitive. Original strength Emil was crying for help against Hulk. Juggernaut managed to knock WWHulk around in their battle. WWHulk himself and others have stated that he's stronger than ever and whatever happened in the past is dead, and that includes their battle in issue #270.

Jonathanos
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Original strength Emil was crying for help against Hulk. Juggernaut managed to knock WWHulk around in their battle. WWHulk himself and others have stated that he's stronger than ever and whatever happened in the past is dead, and that includes their battle in issue #270.

Yet Juggernaut has never managed to defeat the Hulk or even come close with only a few hits.

Jonathanos
What could hurt Abomination here is that he had built up in his mind that he was invincible at his original level of power. Juggernaut ranges from more durable than his peers to invulnerable. Abomination's confidence may waver at the sight of Juggernaut withstanding his assault.

Or maybe not, since it's happened once before.

The only way I see either truly winning this is if BFR is not allowed. Then Juggernaut's durability and force field would enable him to endure Abomination's attacks until Abomination dropped from exhaustion.

TricksterPriest
Juggs wins. No arguements, no backtalk, no other way this can end. Juggernaut cannot lose this match.

This is a spite thread done by a schmuck who thinks that Hercules and Hulk can beat Juggs in a slugfest.

Jonathanos
This fight ends with one or the other removed from the field. Abomination can quickly return by leaping. Juggernaut doesn't do that so most likely either he "loses" by BFR or "wins" when Abomination leaves.

Abomination would defeat Hercules rather easily.

juggernaut74
This fight ends with Abomination lying on the floor with severe head trauma.

Jonathanos
Nah. It ends with Juggernaut punched from New Mexico to New York.

strengthkills
Trick,shutup and you to Juggs.

Juggs gets slapped around like a two-dollar whore,only thing keeping this competitive is his invulnerability.Hulk and OS Abom act on a whole different plane of strength than Juggy.

Hulk stopped Juggs(when motivated and out to beat Hulk) dead in his tracks,nuff sAID.

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