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Thor doesn't have his Mjolnir. Who would win? This is a fight to the death. The location is Smallville

Smallville?

i was just messing around. yes. somehow miraculously, smallville

Well I dont think Clark is gonna let the carnage happen in Smallville. He will make them take it somewhere else where Thor still wins even without his hammer.

ok. let's say Clark's busy fighting Zod in Egypt

Dont matter where it is. I still go with Thor on this.

Unless Firelords flames would do Thor in which I think that they can do.

Thor has resisted the heat of our sun, Firelord's maximum output is that of a rather small star. Also, Thor has taken a hit from Firelord's flame before with no injury sustained.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Thor has resisted the heat of our sun, Firelord's maximum output is that of a rather small star. Also, Thor has taken a hit from Firelord's flame before with no injury sustained.

Thor once surrendered to Firelord as neither could win and he wanted Firelord to think about what was happening

spider-man took out fire-lord, that means that spider-man is stronger then Thor....who lost to him....and since Thor can stalemate galactus....that means that spierman can do the same...and since galactus=Phoenix, that means spider-man is on par with Phoenix possibly even stronger

Originally posted by RAGE17
spider-man took out fire-lord, that means that spider-man is stronger then Thor....who lost to him....and since Thor can stalemate galactus....that means that spierman can do the same...and since galactus=Phoenix, that means spider-man is on par with Phoenix possibly even stronger

Excellent logic C17 as usual I think your right but then you usually are, in fact I can't remember you being wrong

Originally posted by Whurlysplat
Excellent logic C17 as usual I think your right but then you usually are, in fact I can't remember you being wrong

thank you my friend.

that was awesome, rage

Thor cannot take sustained Sun/Star level heat

Rage... that was cool :-), ... but to be serious... i am sure everybody knows that the Spiderman beating over Firelord was .... wholy shit... wasnt it ?

but... what would be interesting.... how strong is Thor WITHOUT Mjolnir.... i have seen fights without Mjolnir against Thor.... i was impressed of the stamina of Thor.. even without his hammer

but he hadnt really a chance against a brutal Hulk

but you would like Thor or you would NOT like thor........ the fact is , he is a hero WITH his weapon.... in this case.. MJOLNIR... and this combination makes he one of the most dominant Marvel Individuals ever...

by the way: the Thor (without Mjolnir)-Hulk fight.. has shown.... that even Thor without his hammer... can survive brutal Hulk attacks and can hand out awesome fists that even can bring a well experienced fighter (like Hulk) in troubles.... but like i said before: Thor "should" always lost without hammer .. against a (green) Savage or Mindless Hulk....

<<Thor has resisted the heat of our sun, Firelord's maximum output is that of a rather small star. Also, Thor has taken a hit from Firelord's flame before with no injury sustained.>>

not that atum scene again? he was not really IN the sun. that was a sphere of power created by atum. thor has never (unless very recently and not counting king thor) been shown to be able to fly through suns.

without his hammer, firelord takes this for a number of reasons, not least which is he can speedblitz and fly.

<<Thor cannot take sustained Sun/Star level heat>>

"i have seen fights without Mjolnir against Thor.... i was impressed of the stamina of Thor.. even without his hammer

but he hadnt really a chance against a brutal Hulk"

He always fought the likes of Savage Hulk, sometimes stalemating, others having more problems but not being defeated.

Thats a far cry from " hadnt rally got a chance ".

And considering the Atum scene, yes it was stated there was a "sphere" inside the sun. Leo was right about it.

Thor can take Firelord/heralds attacks tho. The only problem of not having the hammer its that he cant fly. Wich means Firelord has his powers including better movement powerset.

(Thor still has godly weather control without the hammer, including the Godblast attack).

Its a difficult match to pick a winner from. Probably a slight edge to the Herald if he does not decide to make it strickly h2h.

Thor takes firelord, he is one othe weakest herlader of Galactus. Thor would take him down if he as too, thor is too powerful for firelord he still can summon a powerful lighing bolt/thunder and project the godfroce blast with out the hammer.

Firelord's up in the higher ranks of the heralds... He's just below SS. 6/10 Firelord. Godforce isn't a guaranteed win...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Firelord's up in the higher ranks of the heralds... He's just below SS. 6/10 Firelord. Godforce isn't a guaranteed win...
Uh no! Destroyer, Silver Surfer, Morg, Stardust, Terrax, Nova,Firelord, Airwaliker. Godforce blast hurt Galactus badly what the hell you think it will do too Firelord who is not that durable.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Firelord's up in the higher ranks of the heralds... He's just below SS. 6/10 Firelord. Godforce isn't a guaranteed win...
Since when? What has he done to get him ranked just under SS?

Wait...doesn't Thor own SS, like, every time they fight?

Originally posted by demigawd
Wait...doesn't Thor own SS, like, every time they fight?
Uhh, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure they just stalemate. Might be wrong though.

Well, if Thor >= Silver Surfer
and Silver Surfer > Firelord

then doesn't it stand to reason that Thor > Firelord?

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, if Thor >= Silver Surfer
and Silver Surfer > Firelord

then doesn't it stand to reason that Thor > Firelord?
I would think so.

Heh. I'm reading Thor 306. Firelord comes ot pick a fight with Thor, and Thor is pretty confused, just acting defensively, just tyring to hold Firelord off. Finally, when he gets sick of it, he knocks him out for a bit under the ocean, then battles on land. He's still talking while Firelord hits him square in the face, and knocks Firelord off hsi feet repeatedly. Oh, and he tells Firelord he can't beat him to give Firelord the chance at vengeance for killing Air-Walker and the chance to show mercy. Not once was thor shown to be anything but inconvenienced by an enraged Firelord.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Uh no! Destroyer, Silver Surfer, Morg, Stardust, Terrax, Nova,Firelord, Airwaliker. Godforce blast hurt Galactus badly what the hell you think it will do too Firelord who is not that durable.
True though I don't know if I'd put Nova over Firelord. She always seemed like the weakest of the heralds. Maybe I'm just sexist.

I remember Thor once being next to lava and saying something like: "My northern nature doesn't cope well with this heat." And he was sweating.

Originally posted by demigawd
Wait...doesn't Thor own SS, like, every time they fight?
na thor never owned SS.

SS defeated him in a What if easily by stoping his hammer.

His simple cosmic blast nearly killed Thor.

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, if Thor >= Silver Surfer
and Silver Surfer > Firelord

then doesn't it stand to reason that Thor > Firelord?
did thor have an easy time with Firelord?

SS when pissed took out Morg.

Morg took out Firelord , Air-walker , Terrax combined

Originally posted by K3VIL
kgkg you know that issue is pretty crap, Thor took blasts from the likes of Thanos, Firelord himself, and other cosmic guys and is still in charge.
Thor's durability is questioned cause writers sometimes go nuts and portrait him as someone with durability at Thing level if not less, see when he was knocked out from a f.u.ck.ing SNIPER RIFLE.
His resistance to heat is no question, when the Planet Ego raised his internal heat temperature to the EXTREME, it had no affect on Thor-See Thor-#133.Thor withstood the Thermal Man's HEAT blast that could melt Tanks instantly, also, Thor was insensitive to the Lava Man's attack- see Avengers #5.In addition, Thor withstood a direct hit by Firelord’s Cosmic Flame with absolutely no dire visible effect on him- Thor-#306
Back in topic, without his hammer, Thor still has his total control over weather elements, his magical lightning and his godforce.
When Thor let the GodForce going out it's not pretty to see man, Firelord will be down, or sufficiently shocked and injured to be knocked unconscious old school way with some fists.
Celestials body, a weakned but still was Galactus felt this attack and an herald is under those beings in durability ranking.
Plus:
20) COSMIC ENERGY: Thor's hammer can produce Cosmic Energy (Avengers#5).
Thor is herald level.
am just providing info here K3VIL.

People seem to think Thor has defeated SS.

SS is way beyond Firelord .

Firelord , Terrax and Air-walker couldn't take Morg . SS out Morg out.

Thor doesn't have his hammer , and Hulk nearly beat him to death.

If thor doesn't oull one of those God Force he goes down.

Originally posted by kgkg
na thor never owned SS.

SS defeated him in a What if easily by stoping his hammer.

His simple cosmic blast nearly killed Thor.

When did we start counting What Ifs as feats?

I can't give you exacts, but every time Surfer and Thor fight, Surfer always gets the worst of it.

Originally posted by demigawd
When did we start counting What Ifs as feats?

I can't give you exacts, but every time Surfer and Thor fight, Surfer always gets the worst of it.
please name all the battle Thor got the better of Surfer.

the only Thor that owned SS was Mad THor. and SS was holding back.

Mad Thor (with Gem) kicked his ass.

I can remember some Annual with them both in it. They fight Ice Giants or something. Anyway, i seem to remeber them fighting prettty evenly in that...

I could be wrong though...

Originally posted by demigawd
When did we start counting What Ifs as feats?

I can't give you exacts, but every time Surfer and Thor fight, Surfer always gets the worst of it.
sorry buddy i didn't make my self clear

That scan is not from What if.

it's a canon source.

the one i was talking about is what if Avenger battled Galactus , SS defeated thor there.

and in Avenger vs Defender --- SS simple blast nearly killed him( so he says)

Thor and SS had few crossover. SS is always the better , stonger more powerful guy. When they are together.

no what issue did Thor seem to be able to hold his own.

the only time was in vol 1 when loki powers SS , but in that issue SS knocks thor out.



and ever other source (time they are together) SS is always the bigger man.

*grumble*

I'll dig around at my references and see what I can find. I don't remember any specific battles, but it's always been my sentiment in issues I read that Thor usually got the better of him. I may be completely wrong, but I'll check and let you know.

Either way, it seems we're all agreed that Thor beats Firelord.

Originally posted by demigawd
*grumble*

I'll dig around at my references and see what I can find. I don't remember any specific battles, but it's always been my sentiment in issues I read that Thor usually got the better of him. I may be completely wrong, but I'll check and let you know.

Either way, it seems we're all agreed that Thor beats Firelord. I have read ever thor/ SS colabo

And I have read almost of SS comics

Never does thor own him, or SS is seem weaker.

Fact is now SS is considered the strongest hero ever.

you do remember the Enslaver don't you

Originally posted by kgkg
I have read ever thor/ SS colabo

And I have read almost of SS comics

Never does thor own him, or SS is seem weaker.

Fact is now SS is considered the strongest hero ever.

you do remember the Enslaver don't you



Well, your recollection of SS never seeming weaker is about as reliable as my recollection of Magneto getting the better of the Stranger.

And just because YOU consider SS the strongest hero ever doesn't mean SS is considered the strongest hero ever, lol. Sentry and Genis-Vell might have something to say about that.

But...I'll let this one go until I refresh my memory on their fights. If you have any scans, I'd thank you for it.

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, your recollection of SS never seeming weaker is about as reliable as my recollection of Magneto getting the better of the Stranger.

And just because YOU consider SS the strongest hero ever doesn't mean SS is considered the strongest hero ever, lol. Sentry and Genis-Vell might have something to say about that.
It’s not me my friend it's comic books (actually statement from villains and heroes)

I never said SS was the strongest comic heroes have said that many times.

And did u find the issue?

Sentry , Genis still rookies they might be stronger but we will have to see.

And if SS is using his speed heck no one is touching him.

Can you recall any hero that has defeated the SS in one on one SS actually fighting?

ok, in this scan, Surfer flat out admits that the power of Mjolnir is greater than his. (this is the issue where Surfer is being amped by Loki, and that's why he's winning).

I'm researching more.

Originally posted by demigawd
ok, in this scan, Surfer flat out admits that the power of Mjolnir is greater than his. (this is the issue where Surfer is being amped by Loki, and that's why he's winning).

I'm researching more.
I already said that was one.

Well that was long time ago shit has changed. V.1

And SS wins that

That’s the best u will find

rest is always SS > Thor

i really like this one

This is a classic

using this speed thor can't even hit SS

or this

All of which are well and good, but none of them show an actual battle between the two except the first one, and all he did was freeze Mjolnir (with no showing of what happens next). I don't see where Surfer had an advantage in their battles. In the first one, Surfer was amped and admitted that he's less powerful than Thor, who still took Surfer's best attacks and broke Surfer's Loki-enhanced forcefield. In the second one, Thor was not holding back and beat the crap out of Surfer - knocking him out three times. In the scan you posted, Surfer fired a shot at a group who wasn't expecting that to happen. Thor wasn't in any position to defend himself at all - that proves nothing. If Thor fired a godblast a Surfer while he wasn't looking, it wouldn't go too well for him, either. All of their confrontations have painted Thor in a better light, IMO.

I just don't recall any situations in which Surfer got the best of Thor.

Originally posted by demigawd
All of which are well and good, but none of them show an actual battle between the two except the first one, and all he did was freeze Mjolnir (with no showing of what happens next). I don't see where Surfer had an advantage in their battles. In the first one, Surfer was amped and admitted that he's less powerful than Thor, who still took Surfer's best attacks and broke Surfer's Loki-enhanced forcefield. In the second one, Thor was not holding back and beat the crap out of Surfer - knocking him out three times. In the scan you posted, Surfer fired a shot at a group who wasn't expecting that to happen. Thor wasn't in any position to defend himself at all - that proves nothing. If Thor fired a godblast a Surfer while he wasn't looking, it wouldn't go too well for him, either. All of their confrontations have painted Thor in a better light, IMO.

I just don't recall any situations in which Surfer got the best of Thor.
with no showing what happens hmm what happens if thor doesn't have his hammer , he reverts back to his human form.

that's what happend.

SS doesn't say THor is stonger , he says his hammer is stonger which is true doesn't mean thor is stonger.

in the second one ? which one?

SS uses his speed , thor has problem with mach speed.

SS can go well beyond lightspeed , and reacted in nano second.

end of story

demigawd knocking him out three time? which issue you talking about?

Originally posted by kgkg
with no showing what happens hmm what happens if thor doesn't have his hammer , he reverts back to his human form.

that's what happend.

SS doesn't say THor is stonger , he says his hammer is stonger which is true doesn't mean thor is stonger.

in the second one ? which one?

SS uses his speed , thor has problem with mach speed.

SS can go well beyond lightspeed , and reacted in nano second.

end of story

Surfer's speed hasn't helped much in any of their previous battles - I dont' see it helping in any future battles, either.

Thor has control over the elements even without his hammer, as revealed recently in the Thor mini. Besides, Surfer had Thor's hammer trapped in his field before and Thor just smashed right through it. And this was when Surfer was amped.

Thor wields Mjolnir - they're a single package. If Surfer says the power of Mjolnir exceeds his own, then Thor, who wields it, possesses power that exceeds Surfer's. No getting around that.

While I think that Surfer is more powerful than Thor, Thor's warrior mentality always gives him the win.

Originally posted by kgkg
demigawd knocking him out three time? which issue you talking about?

During the B&T series - I recall them tussling a number of times, with Thor KO'ing Surfer each time.

Originally posted by demigawd
Surfer's speed hasn't helped much in any of their previous battles - I dont' see it helping in any future battles, either.

Thor has control over the elements even without his hammer, as revealed recently in the Thor mini. Besides, Surfer had Thor's hammer trapped in his field before and Thor just smashed right through it. And this was when Surfer was amped.

Thor wields Mjolnir - they're a single package. If Surfer says the power of Mjolnir exceeds his own, then Thor, who wields it, possesses power that exceeds Surfer's. No getting around that.

While I think that Surfer is more powerful than Thor, Thor's warrior mentality always gives him the win.
Assumptions

SS didn't use speed in one of there battle doesn't mean he can't.

He has reacted faster than light and hit people at that speed. He does the same thing to thor.

again SS getting knocked out? where did you get that from?

Originally posted by demigawd
During the B&T series - I recall them tussling a number of times, with Thor KO'ing Surfer each time.
you mean warrior madness thor?

you do know mad thor is 10X stonger than regular Thor?

Surfer is slightly more powerful. But, more powerful nonetheless.

More powerful, yes. But Thor's a better fighter, and that's why he'd win a confrontation 6/10. You'd have to have a brawler's mentality to hang with Thor. That's why Surfer can't do it.

Yes, I was referring to warrior's madness Thor. But that's just pissed off, no holding back Thor. He's not 10x stronger - just a lot more ruthless.

And the fact still remains that Surfer's speed has never given him a win over Thor. Call it Superman syndrome...

Originally posted by demigawd
More powerful, yes. But Thor's a better fighter, and that's why he'd win a confrontation 6/10. You'd have to have a brawler's mentality to hang with Thor. That's why Surfer can't do it.

Yes, I was referring to warrior's madness Thor. But that's just pissed off, no holding back Thor. He's not 10x stronger - just a lot more ruthless.

And the fact still remains that Surfer's speed has never given him a win over Thor. Call it Superman syndrome...
That’s not pissed of Thor.

That’s insane thor.

Get your facts strait

If he gets pissed of he doesn’t get that strong he was mentally ill

Normal is nowhere near that level.

Heck BRB knocked Thor out.

No, call it CIS. And CIS isn't allowed on this forum.

In these fights, Surfer would speedblitz at his fullest, unlike in the comics.

<<Either way, it seems we're all agreed that Thor beats Firelord.>.

er, no we're not. in this fight without his hammer, firelord wins imo, more often than not. his storm control and godforce could get him a couple wins, but firelord takes it 7-8/10 imo.

with his hammer, thor demolishes him.

<<Surfer is slightly more powerful. But, more powerful nonetheless.>>

what?? the hell he is. he may have more versatility in terms of power -- ie he can DO more with his power, but where the hell do you get he is more powerful. ss has admitted that mjollnir > than power cosmic.

if your're talking about a fight of thor WITHOUT his hammer, then yeah, ss is more powerful, but with mjollnir thor > ss.

kg and i have gone back and forth on this for like, ever. we have both shown over and again the reasons we think the other is more powerful.

it has ALWAYS boiled down to me that mjollnir is the difference -- and the god force. thor powers, while less versatile, are GREATER. godforce > than any power ss uses, mjollnir > (by ss admission) than ss. thor's greatest weapon SPECIALIZES in absorbing and defending energy attacks. i've scanned loads of images showing thor absorbing everything to a vampire's life force, to the powers of the celestials. unfortunately, kg and i will NEVER see eye to eye on this.

hey demi, maybe you'll have better luck convincing him.

surfer is definately more versatile but hes a lil LESS powerful than thor.

<<surfer is definately more versatile but hes a lil LESS powerful than thor.>>

amen.

But, leo, you said yourself that half the big stuff Thor has done, was done forever ago and hasn't done anything like it since.

But, you do have a point, if we take into account everything he's ever done, I'd still see him losing, but not because he's is less powerful, but because he's slower.

Surfer's speed is nearly the death nail on all his fights.

Originally posted by kgkg
That’s not pissed of Thor.

That’s insane thor.

Get your facts strait

If he gets pissed of he doesn’t get that strong he was mentally ill

Normal is nowhere near that level.

Heck BRB knocked Thor out.

But the thing you're missing is....he wasn't insane. It was Warrior's Madness. In Nordic history, it's where a Viking works himself up into an incredible frenzy prior to a battle. It's the equivalent of Wolverine's berzerker rage. It's totally within the realm of Thor's own power - he just let it go unchecked. So as far as I'm concerned, it's as valid as people using berzerker rages for Wolverine....or superspeed bloodlust for Surfer.

Either way, in their conflicts, Thor was always shown in a better light. He was shown in a better light when Surfer was amped up by Loki, AND he was shown in a better light when he had his Warrior's Madness. Which was my original point anyway.

Originally posted by long pig
But, leo, you said yourself that half the big stuff Thor has done, was done forever ago and hasn't done anything like it since.

But, you do have a point, if we take into account everything he's ever done, I'd still see him losing, but not because he's is less powerful, but because he's slower.

Surfer's speed is nearly the death nail on all his fights.


About Surfer's superspeed and CIS - considering that Thor has beaten the likes of Gladiator and gotten the best of Surfer, two of Marvel's premier speedsters, on multiple occasions, I'd say it's not CIS, but rather, Thor's godly nature allows him to perceive and react to their speed powers. Similar to Deathstroke's ability to see what's going on at lightspeed.

And I'd say of the two, only Gladiator has really show strong superspeed combat capabilities. I'm underwhelmed by Surfer's skill at applying superspeed to combat. I'd go as far as to say it's an "activated power}

<<About Surfer's superspeed and CIS - considering that Thor has beaten the likes of Gladiator and gotten the best of Surfer, two of Marvel's premier speedsters, on multiple occasions, I'd say it's not CIS, but rather, Thor's godly nature allows him to perceive and react to their speed powers. Similar to Deathstroke's ability to see what's going on at lightspeed.

And I'd say of the two, only Gladiator has really show strong superspeed combat capabilities. I'm underwhelmed by Surfer's skill at applying superspeed to combat. I'd go as far as to say it's an "activated power}>>

yep. ss HAS shown the ability to dodge the hammer on one occasion, but at the same time thor has shown he can absorb the ss's blasts.

and long, all the things i cited earlier happened recently -- or at least well after issue 400. his first fight with ss was quite a while ago, but thor didn't do anything out of character in that fight and so it remains a valid canon battle.

thor beats ss.

Originally posted by demigawd
But the thing you're missing is....he wasn't insane. It was Warrior's Madness. In Nordic history, it's where a Viking works himself up into an incredible frenzy prior to a battle. It's the equivalent of Wolverine's berzerker rage. It's totally within the realm of Thor's own power - he just let it go unchecked. So as far as I'm concerned, it's as valid as people using berzerker rages for Wolverine....or superspeed bloodlust for Surfer.

Either way, in their conflicts, Thor was always shown in a better light. He was shown in a better light when Surfer was amped up by Loki, AND he was shown in a better light when he had his Warrior's Madness. Which was my original point anyway.
in nordic history.

But not in marvel

Thor get's mad but doesn't get inscane it made him many times more powerful than his usally powers that why he was owning BRB

BRB is better than Thor , and has defeated him

Thor doesn't strand a chance , Thor can defeat him using simple Speed , Stoping his hammer tactic.

For 10/10 win.

People need to bring Mad thor. REad of on the madness sickness and how he was many times more powerful.

now it's 10/10??

last time you were at least saying thor could get some wins with godforce and that it would be a very tough fight . . .

Warrior Madness Thor is a whole different animal than regular Thor.

And about Mjolnir...without it Thor would get severely, severely owned by Norrin or any other herald. Thor and Mjolnir are not "one". Thats more like hyperbole. Despite the current series, any directory describing Mjolnir will demonstrate that it does contribute to Thor's powers. This is due to the fact that several enchantments were explicitely placed on it by Odin. Do u think that the enchantment preventing any except the pure of heart lifting it was created by Thor? Even if Thor wanted to he couldnt seperate himself from Mjolnir ie. his brief fight with Champion, Thor admitted himself the enchantment of his father wouldnt allow him to be seperated from it. How about flight, teleportation, energy absorbtion? These are all enchantments independent of Thor. Without Mj. he would be able to fly, teleport, etc. However, although the current series may show him achieving some weather manipulations w/o Mj. maybe thats cuz he's the thunder god and should have some thunder powers of his own without the hammer. Although I still believe that most of his weather powers lie in the hammer because weather manipulation is another of the many enchantments it possesses.

Surfer may concede that the hammer holds more power than himself under normal circumstances. But this is hardly a permanent problem for him. Surfer could always find some star and siphon energy off it...then he's back in the game (He destroyed a planet using this tactic in the Infinity Crusade). Regardless, the power of the Hammer demonstrates the power of Odin, not Thor.

Originally posted by leonidas
now it's 10/10??

last time you were at least saying thor could get some wins with godforce and that it would be a very tough fight . . .
ya if SS decide to go 100X light speed , and react in nano-second then I don't see thor doing anything.

I think you are the one arguing that Thor has failed to hit Spider in Supes vs Thor thread.

Now SS has shown many times the ability to go that fast.

like that no there isn't much thor can't do.

Thor can definity win if his Godforce connects to surfer.

as for absorbing how many bolts is he going to absorb when SS is going beyond lightspeed? none

Originally posted by Wynndar
Warrior Madness Thor is a whole different animal than regular Thor.

And about Mjolnir...without it Thor would get severely, severely owned by Norrin or any other herald. Thor and Mjolnir are not "one". Thats more like hyperbole. Despite the current series, any directory describing Mjolnir will demonstrate that it does contribute to Thor's powers. This is due to the fact that several enchantments were explicitely placed on it by Odin. Do u think that the enchantment preventing any except the pure of heart lifting it was created by Thor? Even if Thor wanted to he couldnt seperate himself from Mjolnir ie. his brief fight with Champion, Thor admitted himself the enchantment of his father wouldnt allow him to be seperated from it. How about flight, teleportation, energy absorbtion? These are all enchantments independent of Thor. Without Mj. he would be able to fly, teleport, etc. However, although the current series may show him achieving some weather manipulations w/o Mj. maybe thats cuz he's the thunder god and should have some thunder powers of his own without the hammer. Although I still believe that most of his weather powers lie in the hammer because weather manipulation is another of the many enchantments it possesses.

Surfer may concede that the hammer holds more power than himself under normal circumstances. But this is hardly a permanent problem for him. Surfer could always find some star and siphon energy off it...then he's back in the game (He destroyed a planet using this tactic in the Infinity Crusade). Regardless, the power of the Hammer demonstrates the power of Odin, not Thor.
ya people using Mad thor as an explain

what people don't realise

Mad Thor > SS , Drax , BRB etc he took them with extreme ease.

In the comics, Thor might win over Surfer a few, but in a bloodlusted no cis/pis vs fight, he has very very very small chances.

Surfer can react at way over lightspeed, it's been proven many times. If he starts out this way, Thor won't be able to handle it. Thor doesn't have lightspeed reflexes.

I'd give Thor a stalemate in the comics with both characters acting in character, but here, Thor gets a 2/10.

not sure of your point, wyn. thor has the hammer. i never said he was ONE with the hammer. and you're right, it is more odin's power. that changes nothing though because thor is still using it.

<<Surfer may concede that the hammer holds more power than himself under normal circumstances. But this is hardly a permanent problem for him. Surfer could always find some star and siphon energy off it...then he's back in the game>>

not if thor continues to siphon until ss is dead ala the presence, or just holds his hammer and has it absorb whatever ss is throwing at him. or if he creates a coccoon that is impenetrable as he has before. or if he transports ss to a land where pc fails (like the universe where galactus's power failed). or transports him to a land where there IS no cosmic energy (like the sphere stranger trapped him in).

to say ss would speedblitz and beat thor is, truly, laughable. thor has actually beaten and injured galactus!! and yet ss is somehow so much beyond thor now that ss wins 10/10?

as far as hitting spidey . . . you're right, but he was attacking physically -- until he used energy and then spidey of course had no chance to evade.

in reality, (all kmc rules aside) it would likely be a great fight. your idea of a speedblitz is (if i'm being honest) no more or less silly than my saying thor would absorb every blast then drain ss to death. BOTH arguments do seem applicable under forum rules, however. the difference between the arguments? thor HAS drained a very powerful energy wielder to the point of death. when has ss speedblitzed and killed or instantly beaten anyone of thor's level?

Surfer doesn't have to do it in the comic for it to be a viable option for an attack. He can, but refuses to.

I mean, how many times has Flash preformed an IMP? Like twice, if that? But, it's still an option on these forums.

I wasnt trying to argue against what u were saying...I was just clarifying that even if SS concede's to the power of Mjolnir, doesnt mean he concede's to Thor.

I think you guys all harp way too much on lightspeed as being the answer to all battles. Using that logic, SS can easily beat Galactus by blasting at full power millions of times per second. Why not, right?

Except I don't see enough lightspeed combat feats for Surfer. Unlike someone like Superman, or even Gladiator, who are both comfortable with fighting at that speed, I've never gotten that impression from Surfer. That's why I keep seeing the same scan over and over again - and none of them involve him doing superman-esque feats of combat speed. Post scans of SS fighting someone at all angles at once like we see Superman doing. Post scans of SS kicking someone away, then grabbing an iron beam and tying around his opponent while the opponent is still in the air from the previous kick, like we see Gladiator doing. THEN, maybe I'll buy into some victories for Surfer. But his superspeed combat talents are severely overrated, and his offensive/defensive capabilities are simply not on par with Thor's.

And again, Warrior's Madness Thor is just a Thor completely unleashed. An unleashed Thor (who could go into Warrior's Madness whenever he wants, by the way) IS far beyond BRB, SS and Drax. It just shows how much Thor holds back all the time. If you can give SS superspeed combat powers that he never uses, then I can unleash Thor at his fullest.

Not that it's even necessary - the offensive capabilities of Mjolnir are just so far beyond Surfer that it's hardly a comparison.

I'm not even going to address the idea that Mjolnir should be weighed separately from Thor. Let's separate Thor from Mjolnir and Surfer from the power cosmic and see how that goes. What's that you say? No? Didn't think so.

Thor 7/10.

Originally posted by demigawd
I think you guys all harp way too much on lightspeed as being the answer to all battles. Using that logic, SS can easily beat Galactus by blasting at full power millions of times per second. Why not, right?

I would say Galactus is faster and much more powerful than the guy he created.

You might not have seen enough lightspeed feats, but I've seen plently. Plently enough for me to give him the edge over nearly anyone who can't compete with that speed.

<<And again, Warrior's Madness Thor is just a Thor completely unleashed. An unleashed Thor (who could go into Warrior's Madness whenever he wants, by the way) IS far beyond BRB, SS and Drax. It just shows how much Thor holds back all the time. If you can give SS superspeed combat powers that he never uses, then I can unleash Thor at his fullest.>>

damn, man. did you read an earlier post i made?? HA! i said the EXACT -- i mean word for word -- same thing. wm thor is just thor unleashed. i've often contended that in TRUE bloodlust, this is exactly the way thor would battle. yet everyone says they are like 2 seperate entities. in a battle with hulk (the medina drawn one) thor battled hulk for a long time and was building up to warrior madness. it's not seperate from him -- even he needs to reach deep down and is angry enough, it comes over him.

long, your points are taken, however, thor in wm mode EASILY crushed ss. wm thor was no faster (by any indication) than regular thor, but ss couldn't/didn't blitz.

again, the speedblitz option has never been performed by ss. the options i give for thor he HAS done in book. which is seemingly more valid?

<<I would say Galactus is faster and much more powerful than the guy he created.>>

i sort of THOUGHT that was implied when i brought galactus up.

<<You might not have seen enough lightspeed feats, but I've seen plently. Plently enough for me to give him the edge over nearly anyone who can't compete with that speed.>>

i'm curious -- what makes you believe thor can't compete against it? he has beaten ss before, beaten glads. you've never seen anyone try attacking him as you think ss would/could. so how do you know he COULDN'T stop it? and what's to keep thor from instantly draining him and keeping him from reaching that speed?

Originally posted by leonidas
wm thor is just thor unleashed.

The same Thor that was seeing a woman that didn't exist

<<The same Thor that was seeing a woman that didn't exist >>

maybe . . .

But, Thor beating Surfer is pretty much CIS, unless Surfer tried speed blitzing the entire time. If he did speed blitz, and Thor was able to keep up with him, then my mind would change.

But, just because he beats him in a comic, when Surfer is in character, being a pacifist, not acting first. It really doesn't mean he'd win in these fights, where Surfer is bloodlusted and went for the kill the first strike.

This is a hard one but, I'm going to go with Asgards favorite on this one.

<<But, Thor beating Surfer is pretty much CIS>>

??? how do you figure that??eer

Originally posted by leonidas
<<But, Thor beating Surfer is pretty much CIS>>

??? how do you figure that??eer because Surfer could think a thought and trap him in an adamantium block that is 1 mile thick, then create a planet around it, then populate it with some bug people...

then thor could open a portal and escape it.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
I would say Galactus is faster and much more powerful than the guy he created.

Galactus clearly isn't faster because it took a few minutes to get back from wherever Thanos blasted him. G is rated as having poor speed/agility.

oh, then he'd suck all of ss's energy away into his hammer and drain him til he was dead.

What are Surfer's *combat* speed feats? Like the ones we see all the time for Superman and even Gladiator. And I still think Thor has the ability, being a God, to react to lightspeed just fine. Hell, Magneto reacted to lightspeed attacks before.

Godblast. Done.

Originally posted by demigawd
I think you guys all harp way too much on lightspeed as being the answer to all battles. Using that logic, SS can easily beat Galactus by blasting at full power millions of times per second. Why not, right?

Except I don't see enough lightspeed combat feats for Surfer. Unlike someone like Superman, or even Gladiator, who are both comfortable with fighting at that speed, I've never gotten that impression from Surfer. That's why I keep seeing the same scan over and over again - and none of them involve him doing superman-esque feats of combat speed. Post scans of SS fighting someone at all angles at once like we see Superman doing. Post scans of SS kicking someone away, then grabbing an iron beam and tying around his opponent while the opponent is still in the air from the previous kick, like we see Gladiator doing. THEN, maybe I'll buy into some victories for Surfer. But his superspeed combat talents are severely overrated, and his offensive/defensive capabilities are simply not on par with Thor's.

And again, Warrior's Madness Thor is just a Thor completely unleashed. An unleashed Thor (who could go into Warrior's Madness whenever he wants, by the way) IS far beyond BRB, SS and Drax. It just shows how much Thor holds back all the time. If you can give SS superspeed combat powers that he never uses, then I can unleash Thor at his fullest.

Not that it's even necessary - the offensive capabilities of Mjolnir are just so far beyond Surfer that it's hardly a comparison.

I'm not even going to address the idea that Mjolnir should be weighed separately from Thor. Let's separate Thor from Mjolnir and Surfer from the power cosmic and see how that goes. What's that you say? No? Didn't think so.

Thor 7/10.
ya and galactus is Thor

It only works on guy who has struggled against speed.

Thor has struggle with speed many times

Galactus is beyond speed , he can easily warp space itself

Originally posted by demigawd
What are Surfer's *combat* speed feats? Like the ones we see all the time for Superman and even Gladiator. And I still think Thor has the ability, being a God, to react to lightspeed just fine. Hell, Magneto reacted to lightspeed attacks before.

Godblast. Done.
many times does it matter?

when has Mag put someone in his blackhole , or beat any enimes using mindcontrol? cept weak ones

never

badlogic.

SS has used his speed in battle many time.

Morg , deathurge , etc

or surfer does this

Originally posted by long pig
But, Thor beating Surfer is pretty much CIS, unless Surfer tried speed blitzing the entire time. If he did speed blitz, and Thor was able to keep up with him, then my mind would change.

But, just because he beats him in a comic, when Surfer is in character, being a pacifist, not acting first. It really doesn't mean he'd win in these fights, where Surfer is bloodlusted and went for the kill the first strike.
thor never defeated SS

SS has defeated THor , without using much speed.

this is not MadThor

simple blast nearly killed him , now replace that with world destoying attack , at lightspeed = dead Thor.

as for Leo -------- Thor never absorb SS , he absorbed his cosmic blast , how many he is going to absorb when SS is moving at light speed? None

the sad thing is people has to bring mad thor lol

Originally posted by demigawd
What are Surfer's *combat* speed feats? Like the ones we see all the time for Superman and even Gladiator. And I still think Thor has the ability, being a God, to react to lightspeed just fine. Hell, Magneto reacted to lightspeed attacks before.

Godblast. Done.
combat has speelitz at beyond light speed many times.

Morg , Durok etc etc


simple blast K.O

thor can't handle Speed ( SS speed > Gladiator)
nuff said

Speed blitz

reaction in battle (when using his speed)