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Who would win?

Does anybody know who would win?

probably wolverine

Wolverine is not an option

wolverine is always an option!!!!!!!!!

ill give it to Lady Deathstrike.

Apocalypse wow this is soo miss-matched

Miss-matched? Why?

Originally posted by PeteButter
Miss-matched? Why? because Everytime Magneto has fought apocalypse he's alway won but he always needed help from the Brotherhood or the X-men and Even then he won just barily

Originally posted by BENITO
Even then he won just barily

Just barely? I've recently done some research, and Magneto ripped Apocalypse to shreds by himself.

But you seem to think Apocalypse would win...

Why are people voting Apocalypse when Magneto has already won this battle?

apocalypse beat magneto and once took control off him, and nearly killed him.

My vote goes to Apocalypse.

Magneto beat Apoc in both AOA and HoM.

Apoc has yet to win a real battle against Magneto, except for the ambush in AOA.

Apocalypse is so beyond Magneto that it's not funny according to his Marvel Handbook File his agility and reflexes are metahuman which means he is as quick as Gladiator and 10 smarter then him he is to impressive.Apocalypse abilities Immortality, complete control over his body's molecular structure, granting him energy blasts enough to flatten cities, unlimited strength, toughness, the ability to shapeshift, vary his size to grow as large as he wants, teleportation, flight, and the ability to generate impregnable force fields.

The problem is that Apoc's control over his atomic structure isn't enough to hold himself together against Magneto's power over sub-atomic components. Magneto can just will Apoc to discorporate...and he does. There's nothing Apoc can do to stop it.

Accept use his impregnable force fields.

Or Magneto could just open a black hole and suck Apoc in. Or he can control Apoc's electrical impulses so that Apoc has no control over his own body. What's Apoc going to do? Magneto's forcefield has held up against Phoenix and Galactus, and taken shots from Thor.

Magneto 9/10

Originally posted by golem370
Accept use his impregnable force fields.

What forcefield? Apoc doesn't have a forcefield.

Read ^

His bio from some random website means nothing if he's never shown it in comics. And he's never shown it in comics.

Originally posted by RAGE17
probably wolverine
Originally posted by RAGE17
wolverine is always an option!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by demigawd
Magneto beat Apoc in both AOA and HoM.


When excatly? By paying other, cause he knew he cant do it himself and had to made a plan.

Here can always be an option. Apocalypse was defeated by less powerful being. Magneto was defeated by Logan. Apocalypse was defeated once by Angel. And it also comes in option that Apocalypse defeated Magneto and Bishop in AoA at the same time. He could kill him with finger (and why he didnt, because of story and Magneto would be aready dead). And when Magneto deafet edhim in AoA, Apocalypse was first chocking him and talking to him (while he was talking to him, he could tear his head of in second, why he didnt, because of story and because that Magneto could gather his power and defeat Apocalypse and beacuse Apocalypse wouldnt prepear to his attack, but was rather talking, he lost due to story)

Originally posted by demigawd
The problem is that Apoc's control over his atomic structure isn't enough to hold himself together against Magneto's power over sub-atomic components. Magneto can just will Apoc to discorporate...and he does. There's nothing Apoc can do to stop it.

He has easily power, ha has complete control, he has easily power to hold himself togehter againt Magneto, and e has many options (it only depends on how he is written). But they musnt do that if they need to do Magneto to defeat him. Problem is that Marvel holds Apocalypse as more powerful being than Magneto. Dont be imaginitive demigawd.

Why isn't wolverine in the ****ing poll??

Originally posted by Xplosive
When excatly? By paying other, cause he knew he cant do it himself and had to made a plan.


lol, by paying others? "Here's $100. Go take care of Apoc".

He killed Apoc in AOA, when he was at 1/3 his 616 power level. And this was after he was beaten up and weakened by Apoc and Holocaust after his capture. Even with all that, he still was able to rise and fight Apoc on even terms the entire issue, and ultimately tear him apart.

You want to talk about plot devices? The whole time Magneto was in Apoc's fortress, he could have unleashed the attack and killed Apoc at any time. He didn't because the plot called for it.

Now just imagine a Magneto three times more powerful. Apoc stands no chance.



A lot of words to say, "Apoc is an idiot". I already knew that.

Magneto was tired, hungry, weakened and tortured for days and STILL took out Apoc. Simple as that.

Apoc became Mag's btch in HoM when he had to come up against a full-powered Magneto. Magneto SPARED Apoc, because he had a purpose for him. Never forget that. Apoc didn't.



I don't have to be imaginative. If Marvel holds Apoc as being more powerful than Magneto, Apoc wouldn't be constantly punked by Magneto in every timeline they battle. So it stands to reason your belief that Marvel holds Apoc as more powerful is wrong.

Apoc just doesn't have the tools necessary to hang with Magneto.

Originally posted by demigawd
lol, by paying others? "Here's $100. Go take care of Apoc".

He killed Apoc in AOA, when he was at 1/3 his 616 power level. And this was after he was beaten up and weakened by Apoc and Holocaust after his capture. Even with all that, he still was able to rise and fight Apoc on even terms the entire issue, and ultimately tear him apart.

You want to talk about plot devices? The whole time Magneto was in Apoc's fortress, he could have unleashed the attack and killed Apoc at any time.
.

You really dont get it, do you. (He didnt, because he wouldnt succeed and Apocalypse would kill him, yeah you are right, its plot, beaucse Magneto would die and plot wouldnt carry on.)

Originally posted by demigawd
A lot of words to say, "Apoc is an idiot". I already knew that.

Magneto was tired, hungry, weakened and tortured for days and STILL took out Apoc. Simple as that.

Apoc became Mag's btch in HoM when he had to come up against a full-powered Magneto. Magneto SPARED Apoc, because he had a purpose for him. Never forget that. Apoc didn't.

Haha, purpose, where did you get that from (he has made a plan how to deafeat him, beacuse he wouldn be able to do it himself). Magneto was affraid of him and had to make a plan to defeat him.


Originally posted by demigawd
I don't have to be imaginative. If Marvel holds Apoc as being more powerful than Magneto, Apoc wouldn't be constantly punked by Magneto in every timeline they battle. So it stands to reason your belief that Marvel holds Apoc as more powerful is wrong.



Hhahhahahha. Constantly punked, you really dont get it, like I said, but that is beacuse of being fanboy. Apocalpyse could kill him many time, but didnt, only beacause of story, he could tear his head off, he could kill him 5 time in AoA, didnt, because of story.

Originally posted by demigawd
Apoc just doesn't have the tools necessary to hang with Magneto.

This is probably the most stupid sentences. Apocalypse is the one who has all the tools (but 10 % is used of it), while Magneto hasnt the tools (but at least with him they use 100%). Apocalypse powes are on far higher range.

Originally posted by Xplosive
You really dont get it, do you. (He didnt, because he wouldnt succeed and Apocalypse would kill him, yeah you are right, its plot, beaucse Magneto would die and plot wouldnt carry on.)


Apoc ambushed Magneto in their first encounter after sending in an army to put down Magneto because he knew he couldn't beat him straight up. Remember, Magneto and Apoc fought before (off-panel), and Magneto BEAT Apoc. Their battle was so fierce that it tore a hole in the EM field of earth, but it drove Apoc into hiding. Apoc didn't want any more of that, so he set up an ambush. Could he have killed Magneto after AMBUSHING him? Sure, but that doesn't prove anything. After he captured Magneto, he tortured him repeatedly for days (which is difficult for a 70+ year old man to take). Magneto was hardly in fighting condition when the X-men rescued him. But he still fought Apoc on totally even terms even after that. Apoc couldn't have killed Magneto at any time after that. They were fighting to a draw. When Magneto stopped fighting, it was a ploy to drop Apoc's defenses because Magneto knew about Apoc's ego...and it worked. It's called a calculated risk - and tactical genius is what makes Magneto Apoc's superior.



What plan? Magneto had no idea the X-men were coming. Magneto's only plan after being rescued was to go and kill Apocalypse. The plan worked. But it didn't require anything else. Remember, nobody else killed Apoc but Magneto. So I don't know what you're talking about by "plan".



This coming from the guy who says Apoc can beat Thanos, Odin and argued that he could damage Galactus.



Which are all assumptions on your part. The only time Magneto was vulnerable was when he was ambushed by Apoc and his army.

And that was STILL Magneto at his absolute weakest. HoM (full power) Magneto made Apoc his SLAVE.

Magneto's powers give him control over the physical universe. Apoc's powers don't come close. Apoc has a broad range of powers, but none of them are first class. I'd rather have total mastery over one power than be C-class in 12, which is why Apoc isn't taken seriously by anybody....except you.

Magneto's powers may be more fundamental. I think Apoc beats him in wisdom and intelligence. His actual power level/output/source (not how fundamental or versatile his powers are) is also higher than Magneto's...IMHO

Apoc has never struck me as a tactial genius. He stole Celestial tech and used it to become everything that he is. Magneto invented and built all his tech from scratch. that includes the ability to create life (mutates, Alpha), giant asteroid bases, sentient robots (nanny, others), massive bases in the center of the earth, devices capable of destroying the planet. He exhibits an incredible degree of knowledge of how science works and how to scientifically counter any mutant power with his own. These inventions and tactics prove Magneto's that intelligence is on par with that of Stark, Richards and Doom.

What are Apoc's feats of intelligence? He's had 5000 years to develop some. What's he got? What are his brilliant battle strategies? What are his inventions from scratch? What has he created rather than altered? Where's the evidence that he has anything over Magneto mentally?

Apoc is all hot air.

"I shall retuuuuuuuuuuuun!!!!!!!!"

Magneto is on the level of Stark...I would say he even surpasses Stark in modern comics. However, the portrayal of Magneto as a super genius is a relatively modern invention of the last 15 years. He isnt on Doom or Richards level...its just not his character; his intellect is not a constant factor or threat, its the awesome integration of power and genius that makes him so formidable.

Magneto was always portrayed as being supergenius level. The creation of the mutates is over 20 years old. I think necessity is the mother of invention - his great power makes having to be even more inventive unnecessary, so I don't think we've even seen his max intellect. But for the sake of argument, I have no problem putting him below Reed/Doom and above Stark. Either way, that's above Apoc's intelligence level.

Xavier, Magneto, Beast, Forge and Apocalypse are all listed as genius-like intelligence....if you want a x-villian who is a super genius you have to look for someone more Sinister.

Was the Magneto that was part of the X-Men during the F4 vs X-Men cross over in the 80's the real Magneto or was he some kind of clone? Next to Doom his intelligence appeared to be approaching pedestrian.

claremont intentionally powered him down while he was with the X-men so that he wouldn't overwhelm the X-men. He says he does that with both Magneto and Xavier - usually having them taken out first, or unable to deal with things as heroes that they could as villains, etc. It's a little bit how Thor is never as powerful when he's an Avenger because it makes the stories more interesting.

I'm talking the Magneto who effortlessly walked through Latveria's every defense and went straight to Doom. Then later on, undid Doom's programming on Beast and went on to beat Doom.

Originally posted by golem370
Apocalypse is so beyond Magneto that it's not funny according to his Marvel Handbook File his agility and reflexes are metahuman which means he is as quick as Gladiator and 10 smarter then him he is to impressive.Apocalypse abilities Immortality, complete control over his body's molecular structure, granting him energy blasts enough to flatten cities, unlimited strength, toughness, the ability to shapeshift, vary his size to grow as large as he wants, teleportation, flight, and the ability to generate impregnable force fields. Apocalypse was one of the most physically powerful beings on Earth. Thanks to the Celestial technology's modifications to his body, he could alter the molecular structure of his body at will in order to change his form. Using this he could alter his appearance or the size of his body; transform his arms and fists into various melee weapons and grant himself superhuman strength. He also can generate energy, thanks to a combination of his mutant power and the Celestial technology in his body. He can use this energy to levitate himself and others, create force fields, and project bursts of concussive force, and can augment himself further by drawing on various outside energy sources. Apocalypse has demonstrated the ability to teleport himself and other beings.




"I am the rocks of the eternal shore...crash against me and be broken"

Originally posted by demigawd
claremont intentionally powered him down while he was with the X-men so that he wouldn't overwhelm the X-men. He says he does that with both Magneto and Xavier - usually having them taken out first, or unable to deal with things as heroes that they could as villains, etc. It's a little bit how Thor is never as powerful when he's an Avenger because it makes the stories more interesting.

I'm talking the Magneto who effortlessly walked through Latveria's every defense and went straight to Doom. Then later on, undid Doom's programming on Beast and went on to beat Doom.

What issue was this?

Marvel Super-Villain Team Up #14/Champions #16

Magneto invades Latveria and gets to Doom himself to offer a team up. Doom says he doesn't need he - he's already taken over the world with nanobots in the air that EVERYBODY has inhaled. He then takes control of Magneto with the nanobots. He releases Magneto from its control and challenges Magneto to take the world back. Magneto goes to the Avengers Mansion, where Doom has control over them too. He burns out Doom's nanobots inside Beast by controling iron flow in Beast's brain. From there Magneto leads a resistance against Doom, culminating in a big battle in Washington DC (I think) where Doom gets tricked into breathing in his own nanobots and mind-controlling himself. Magneto declares victory. Everybody rejoices - nobody remembers but him, lol.

Sounds pretty cool, I like the way that plot sounds. What year did that come out approximately?

Christ...sometime in the 80s I think?

does anyone one know which issue APC stalemated HE.

or took BB FULL scream.

Someone here said that APc can beat Celestial or Galactus to.

i have seen him stuggle with Namor and the X-men

Don't remember the issue for the HE stalemate. But HE is written at so many levels that it's hard to guage how impressive that is. Sinister beat him, Hulk crushed his armor, Exodus beat him.

He never took BB's FULL scream, because there was no collateral damage. BB did a vocal attack and it hit Apoc's shoulder with no damage. The full scream came in the HoM....that didn't go so well for Apoc.

the thing is think is funny is... yeah Apoc was one the most powerful beings on Earth, but that was when he was the firrst mutant ever in existence mags has dusted this dude on a number of occasions, its already been poured over so i dont have to recount them step by step.

also as was said mags power is on a fundamental level of nature type of shit now. when i think about i can remember anytime in 616 when Apoc wasnt recharging in his chamber cuz he was weakned for some reason or another and had to use his agents and what not. i give him props and all that, but he's no match for the fury that is magneto.

when ,mags and joseph were fighting they disrupted the enitre ionoshpere of earth, almost destroying the entire EM spectrum,, which would result in the burning off of the atmosphere...this guy is nothing to f **** with. If written correctly he would be invincible, but due to plot devices he's always working on some pplan that needs to be disrupted by the x-men

"do you not realize I am ....immortal dear child?"

Originally posted by demigawd
claremont intentionally powered him down while he was with the X-men so that he wouldn't overwhelm the X-men. He says he does that with both Magneto and Xavier - usually having them taken out first, or unable to deal with things as heroes that they could as villains, etc. It's a little bit how Thor is never as powerful when he's an Avenger because it makes the stories more interesting.

I'm talking the Magneto who effortlessly walked through Latveria's every defense and went straight to Doom. Then later on, undid Doom's programming on Beast and went on to beat Doom.
is that the issue where doom easily absorb Magneto's powers making him useless.

and people say Doom can't beat magneto

all Doom had to do is reverse the polarity

No, that's not what happened. Doom used his nanites that Magneto inhaled (like everybody else in the universe) to take Magneto's control over his own body away from him. It had nothing to do with reversing polarity or any of that.

Doom CAN'T beat Magneto. But that's another debate.

High Evolutionary armor is hella powerful, didn't know he was that strong in both ranged and close quarter fight.

Originally posted by demigawd
No, that's not what happened. Doom used his nanites that Magneto inhaled (like everybody else in the universe) to take Magneto's control over his own body away from him. It had nothing to do with reversing polarity or any of that.

Doom CAN'T beat Magneto. But that's another debate.
say what

can we say OWNED

demi where u at

That's from one of their other battles, IIRC. Iron Man tried the same trick against CURRENT Magneto (three times as powerful), and Magneto kept switching polarities on IM until it overwhelmed him.

Or Magneto can just open up a blackhole and....well, this is Magneto vs. Apoc.

Originally posted by demigawd
That's from one of their other battles, IIRC. Iron Man tried the same trick against CURRENT Magneto (three times as powerful), and Magneto kept switching polarities on IM until it overwhelmed him.

Or Magneto can just open up a blackhole and....well, this is Magneto vs. Apoc.
what issue did he tired?
3times as powerful how can u tell.?

Magneto Dark Seduction storyline. That trick doesn't work on him anymore. Neither does using ceramic machinery - he's learned to subvert the internal electronics - which, no matter what, are still just electrical impulses.

Magneto was an old man, when he was reverted to his prime, he said he felt twice as strong. He easily accomplished things he couldn't do otherwise.

He got another power up during Fatal Attractions, where he again said "twice as strong". That's actually four times more powerful, but I knock one off for the sake of hyperbole.

Either way, he'd developed a lot of new powers since then, most of which was geared towards countering counters of his power.

Apoc wins this 10/10, cause apoc has power beyond beleif and magneto get his ass icked not once but like a thousand times by him but then the x-men came and saved him, puhlease magneto had hard time defeating sentinnel how the hell is he gonna kill a godlike person

Originally posted by Spawnrules
Apoc wins this 10/10, cause apoc has power beyond beleif and magneto get his ass icked not once but like a thousand times by him but then the x-men came and saved him, puhlease magneto had hard time defeating sentinnel how the hell is he gonna kill a godlike person


only one man can kill Apocalypse the names Cable.....(and hell even word on the street is Apocalypse shall return....)

Originally posted by Spawnrules
Apoc wins this 10/10, cause apoc has power beyond beleif and magneto get his ass icked not once but like a thousand times by him but then the x-men came and saved him, puhlease magneto had hard time defeating sentinnel how the hell is he gonna kill a godlike person



"Power beyond belief?"

"Godlike person?"

Funny. He hasn't showed this in comics.

yet

Originally posted by Spawnrules
Apoc wins this 10/10, cause apoc has power beyond beleif and magneto get his ass icked not once but like a thousand times by him but then the x-men came and saved him, puhlease magneto had hard time defeating sentinnel how the hell is he gonna kill a godlike person

Godlike person? Let's play "Count the PWNAGE":

He got blasted into nothingness by Cyclops
Killed by Cyclops/Phoenix/and teenage Cable
Beaten by Stryfe (yes, Apoc was weak, but if he's so "godlike" he'd pull it off)
Killed by Magneto in one timeline
Beaten up and forced to be Magneto's slave in HoM
Killed by Black Bolt,
Split open by Jean Grey to reveal an old man inside
Had his essence discorporated by Cable
Killed in a panel by a guy with a nanotech gun in X-men: The End

Did I miss anything?

God-like? hahaha only in that he never seems to STAY dead. But getting there never seems to be that hard....

Originally posted by demigawd
Godlike person? He got blasted into nothingness by Cyclops, killed by Cyclops/Phoenix/and teenage Cable, beaten by Stryfe (yes, Apoc was weak, but if he's so "godlike" he'd pull it off), killed by Magneto in one timeline, beaten up and forced to be Magneto's slave in HoM, killed by Black Bolt, split open by Jean Grey to reveal an old man inside, discorporated by Cable, killed in a panel by a guy with a nanotech gun in X-men: The End

God-like? hahaha only in that he never seems to STAY dead. But getting there never seems to be that hard....


he shall not be deined...know this he is En Sabah Nur...feared and worshipped by countless masses....he is the way.

yet is the correct word, i mean your fighting a guy thats 2000 years older than magneto, so he knows a lot more than magneto

Originally posted by Spawnrules
yet is the correct word, i mean your fighting a guy thats 2000 years older than magneto, so he knows a lot more than magneto

4930 years older than magneto give or take a decade

Originally posted by Spawnrules
yet is the correct word, i mean your fighting a guy thats 2000 years older than magneto, so he knows a lot more than magneto

Namor is about 30 years older then Magneto.

Would he defeat him?

I don't think so.

Originally posted by Spawnrules
yet is the correct word, i mean your fighting a guy thats 2000 years older than magneto, so he knows a lot more than magneto

Great, then I hope he knows enough to flee like a bich when Magneto comes his way. He was smart enough to do that in HoM

HoM is different he was oppose to fight apocalypse right he wil flee like a deer, he was almost defeated by wolverine then by me then by cyclops

Apoc fought Magneto, lost, and decided to take a job with him instead.

You almost defeated Magneto?

first i did defeat magneto, apoc has changed he learned new things and went from stupid evil to absolute pure evil, it said in one thread he can defeat galactus and are you saying that magneto can defeat galactus

Originally posted by Spawnrules
first i did defeat magneto, apoc has changed he learned new things and went from stupid evil to absolute pure evil, it said in one thread he can defeat galactus and are you saying that magneto can defeat galactus

Magneto can't defeat Galactus and neither can Apoc. Whoever said Apoc can beat Galactus (*cough*Xplosive*cough*) needs to be shot.

Originally posted by Spawnrules
first i did defeat magneto, apoc has changed he learned new things and went from stupid evil to absolute pure evil, it said in one thread he can defeat galactus and are you saying that magneto can defeat galactus

Idiots say a lot of things in a lot of threads

Apocalypse was beaten by all those stated a few posts above. He's no god, nor god-like. He's an imbecile. Oh, and add namor to that list, as well as a wood table. Yes, he ran away from a wood table. In the 616 mainstream universe. The God Apocalypse ran from a wooden table.

~wickerman~

as ive said many times, those in favour of apocalypse are looking at the OLD apocalypse from the early nineties. there is a certain WAY a character is written which hints to his place in the heirarchy for example then, apocalypse usually stayed in the shadows, never talking much. when he talked his words always had significance and power and every one knew that those words would surely bring a huge change in the comics, and they did, it was always a sinister plot then and we saw apocalypse change HISTORY as one might say. in the few instances he did come out in the open he ABSOLUTELY OWNED all the xmen, so much infact that they had to bring in the brotherhood and stuff and still rely on clever tactics instead of fighting. that was the apoc we all knew and loved, but now things have changes, unlike the wrest of marvel apoc hasnt recieved a single powerup. he talks like an idiot, stutters. laughs like a loon on idiotic jokes is very "out in the open" doesnt seem to have any of the psychotic COOL thing goin on anymore, and gets his ass beaten again and again. hes not a very significant villian anymore{while at the time he was THE villian along with galactus, i mean there were guys like doom and magneto but they were ALWAYS overshadowed by galactus or apocalypse cause whenever these two came in the picture everyone knew they were up for some lengthy comics and dramatic and significant outcomes}

i mean cmon, laughin at bein blown out of a damn spaceship, lol. and im sure that current magneto can take him.

{btw the classic apocalpse was more powerful than the likes of surfer ad thor}

So long as Apoc has the molecular cohesion weakness (hell, so long as matter does), Magneto will have a trump card against Apocalypse, just like Black Bolt does (if you know how Black Bolt's powers work).

origin of blacbolts power:

black bolt was walking he say me the defeater of galactus got so scared sremed as loud as he could and got got girlish scream powers

I take it you're very young...

Originally posted by Spawnrules
origin of blacbolts power:

black bolt was walking he say me the defeater of galactus got so scared sremed as loud as he could and got got girlish scream powers

You never really WENT to school........did you?

~wickerman~

lol. He was too busy beating Magneto.

Originally posted by demigawd
lol. He was too busy beating Magneto.
Yeah

Bump

I realize this is an old thread, but I decided to revive it, since it's the best of the Apoc vs. Mags threads. apocalypse "I AM APOCALYPSE, THE FIRST MUTANT! THOSE WHO SIDE WITH AND PROVE THE STRONGEST SHALL LIVE. THOSE WHO OPPOSE ME......SHALL BE CRUSHED!"

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Bump

I realize this is an old thread, but I decided to revive it, since it's the best of the Apoc vs. Mags threads. apocalypse "I AM APOCALYPSE, THE FIRST MUTANT! THOSE WHO SIDE WITH AND PROVE THE STRONGEST SHALL LIVE. THOSE WHO OPPOSE ME......SHALL BE CRUSHED!"

...cept Magneto.

Co-Signs Magneto>Apocalypse.
I mean what more could you want?
They have encountered each other 1 on 1 several times (at the time it was 616, but later changed).
And Apo. Lost.

Plus Magneto has more impressive on panel feats.

in AOA magneto took out apoc easy

classic apocaypse would win. but not the current one

APOC

I did not make this long-winded post for nobody to read it.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who underestimate Erik Lensherr.

Magneto wins this. But, just to set things straight, magneto should not be able to control sound. sound energy is not even part of the electromagnetic spectrum. sound is a form of mechanical energy. The writers messed up on that one.

Originally posted by ashroro
Magneto wins this. But, just to set things straight, magneto should not be able to control sound. sound energy is not even part of the electromagnetic spectrum. sound is a form of mechanical energy. The writers messed up on that one.

Fair enough, but he's also been shown to manipulate gravitons (anti-gravitational field, and Cyclops' blast), and that isn't a part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

He's living proof of the unified theory of energy where all energy is fundamentally related. He can control other forms of energy besides electromagnetic energy.

yeah, but they said he might be. How often does he show control over gravity tho? Does he have control of gravity like say Gravitron does? The writers just seem to think that just because electromagnetism is so fundamental they can use it to try to give magneto control of other forces at will, when thats not the case. Yes, he is powerful and is one of the most fearsome villians in marvel, but they try to make him too much like a silver surfer lite. He needs to be just plan magneto master of magnetism and the EM field

Originally posted by ashroro
yeah, but they said he might be. How often does he show control over gravity tho? Does he have control of gravity like say Gravitron does? The writers just seem to think that just because electromagnetism is so fundamental they can use it to try to give magneto control of other forces at will, when thats not the case. Yes, he is powerful and is one of the most fearsome villians in marvel, but they try to make him too much like a silver surfer lite. He needs to be just plan magneto master of magnetism and the EM field

Cyclops' optic blasts are made out of gravitons, and he's manipulated that before. He's also created anti-gravitational fields before.

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/2884/magreflectspsychicpowerandreve.jpg

Originally posted by batdude123
I did not make this long-winded post for nobody to read it.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who underestimate Erik Lensherr.

he got beat by logan(a man with metal covered bones)
APOC thats it

magneto is ok....but can't even beat hulk(who APOC owned)
can magneto even stand up to mr sinister???(real question)

Originally posted by swerve1988
he got beat by logan(a man with metal covered bones)
APOC thats it

magneto is ok....but can't even beat hulk(who APOC owned)
can magneto even stand up to mr sinister???(real question)



Right, he got owned by Logan.

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetoripslogansadamantiumoutqy9.jpg
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7186154

That sure does look like he got owned right there!!!

Magneto can't beat the Hulk? Um... of course he can. The Hulk radiates gamma radiation, which is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Hulk would be as susceptible to Magneto's power as Logan.

If you hop off of Apoc's sack for two seconds, you'll realize that Magneto is indeed superior to him.

He can't actually control gravity like that. he indirectly caused the gravitional field to reverse by generating enough power. He didn't manipulate gravitons like how Gravitons does. Also, do you know how much power and energy it would take just to do what Magneto did?!!!! It takes a lot. Lets just say that Magneto should not be doing what he did. The writers just wanted to add more powers to his character. Whenever Magneto starts manipulating gravitons like Gravitron does, then we can say that it is within his power set.

Also, couldn't we say that magneto magnetically levitated those young mutants? Writers are not the most scientific lot. Magnetic levitation occurs when the magnetic field generates enough magnetic force to the extent that the magnetic force is effectivly more than the gravitational force. Maybe the writers meant that.

Originally posted by ashroro
He can't actually control gravity like that. he indirectly caused the gravitional field to reverse by generating enough power. He didn't manipulate gravitons like how Gravitons does. Also, do you know how much power and energy it would take just to do what Magneto did?!!!! It takes a lot. Lets just say that Magneto should not be doing what he did. The writers just wanted to add more powers to his character. Whenever Magneto starts manipulating gravitons like Gravitron does, then we can say that it is within his power set.

Um... I just showed you a scan earlier that depicted Magneto manipulating Cyclops' optic blast... and his blast is made out of gravitons.

And Marvel's bio of him seems to agree with me.

"He can manipulate gravitons to create an anti-gravity field, and does so whenever he levitates a non-magnetic object. Hence, Magneto may be living proof of the long-sought Unified Field Theory that all forms of energy are related."

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Magneto_%28Magnus%29

Originally posted by batdude123
Um... I just showed you a scan earlier that depicted Magneto manipulating Cyclops' optic blast... and his blast is made out of gravitons.

And Marvel's bio of him seems to agree with me.

"He can manipulate gravitons to create an anti-gravity field, and does so whenever he levitates a non-magnetic object. Hence, Magneto may be living proof of the long-sought Unified Field Theory that all forms of energy are related."

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Magneto_%28Magnus%29

I have a question. Would you mind if I used that stuff on a different forums as a Magneto Respect Thread?

Thats the thing tho, he doesn't use it to the extent gravitron does. Why doesn't he use more powerful gravity based attacks? If the bio is true, then he should be crushing people in gravitional force fields. Why doesn't he? Since writers give him control over gravitons to, why not use it to its fullest. Like I said, Magneto would merc Apoc, but they don't need to give him extra powers. Stay the Master of Magnetism, not gravity, sound, nuclear, kinetic, mechanical, and chemical energy.

Also, why don't they say Gravitron can also be a form of the unified field theory. He has been the closest to achieve it thus far.

Originally posted by demigawd
The problem is that Apoc's control over his atomic structure isn't enough to hold himself together against Magneto's power over sub-atomic components. Magneto can just will Apoc to discorporate...and he does. There's nothing Apoc can do to stop it.

Magneto does not have this kind of power. He is no Sersi. Magneto has only defeated Poccy because Apocalypse's powers are ignored. He can rechannel energy like Bishop, he has a near-indestructable body with extreme class 100 strength, control over his body at the atomic level, etc. Maybe Magneto could pull this on Kitty if she were intangible as the bonds that hold her body together at such levels are probably substantially weaken in this state and makes it easier for him to do something like this, but certainly not to a normal person or a near-indestructable guys like Poccy. Show me where Magneto has even taken apart somebody on this level where the issue states it is so and the guy not be intangible or something. I have seen Magneto have to strain VERY hard just to pull atoms together to create a comb for Wasp.

I don't see how Magneto can win this fight when the other guy is a psi of the highest order, has extreme class 100 strength, very difficult to hurt, can grow in stature to enormous proportions, absorb and rechannel energy, fly, etc.

APOC IS SUPERIOR TO MAGNETO!!!!!

Woot! What now, Batdude? Thanks Ash.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Woot! What now, Batdude? Thanks Ash.

i agree. good scans ash

APOC is the chief

WILL YOU SHUT UP! you're giving us real Apoc fans a bad name. YOU'RE CLAIMING HE CAN BEAT THANOS AND DARKSEID! My god man, stop wrecking his rep.

double post.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Woot! What now, Batdude? Thanks Ash.

There's no transmutation anywhere in those scans he provided.

Even if he could transmute his body, Magneto would still win. I fear that people still think of Magneto as a guy who can control metal and nothing more.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
WILL YOU SHUT UP! you're giving us real Apoc fans a bad name. YOU'RE CLAIMING HE CAN BEAT THANOS AND DARKSEID! My god man, stop wrecking his rep.

hey...fake APOC fan(who said APOC would get beat by hulk).....stop yacking

I never said Apoc would lose to Hulk. and you have some nerve calling me a fake.

Originally posted by batdude123
The first you showed just has him injecting them with the antidote. No mentioning of transmutation anywhere.

If you look, you can see him transforming his arms to inject them with the cure. Now, where do you think the antidote came from? Keeping it in his suit? No. He can't do that, because his "suit" is just molecules moved around and changed to suit him, therefor his costume is part of his body. So the antidote came straight from his body, and he would have had to transmutate his body to create it.

Thanks Ash. Btw, where was that 2nd scan from? Apoc vs. Drac? I like his costume there.

Originally posted by batdude123
The second one you showed is nothing but Apocalypse using his technology.

He doesn't fire the ordinary energy blasts, but bullets. Suggesting he can create mass for himself/self generating mass or draw on extra-dimensional mass. And transmutes his body into metal to "turn the mass into bullets".

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Btw, where was that 2nd scan from? Apoc vs. Drac?

Yes.

For all the shitty writing in Apoc vs. Drac, it's about time they gave Apoc a great costume.

And before you start arguing about whether or not he was using bullets, batdude, note the sound effect. "Blam!": used primarily when guns are being fired. And note that his right arm is morphed into a gun, and the left is normal. You can tell by the elbow joint and the gun moving with his arm being raised in the 2nd panel. Finally, the 'technology' is gone in the last panel, and his right arm is back.


Conclusion: Apocalypse morphed his arm into a gun and fired bullets generated by extradimensional means or from his own body mass. Either way, it means he has the ability to morph his body at the molecular, and possibly sub-atomic level. Not to mention he could just as easily give himself that superpower via his molecular control.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
He doesn't fire the ordinary energy blasts, but bullets. Suggesting he can create mass for himself/self generating mass or draw on extra-dimensional mass. And transmutes his body into metal to "turn the mass into bullets".

There was nothing in the scan to indicate that he was transmuting anything. The only thing shown was him firing a huge ass gun, which could have been the result of a number of things; namely, his technology.

Extrapolating that he transmuted his arm into a gun loaded with bullets is faulty logic, as it is never truly shown that way.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Finally, the 'technology' is gone in the last panel, and his right arm is back.

Um, no. The gun did not transform back into his normal arm. You can see the outline of it, and on top of that, he has no hand. It's still there, but he's in a shadow and it's from a weird angle, so I can understand why you made that mistake.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
If you look, you can see him transforming his arms to inject them with the cure. Now, where do you think the antidote came from? Keeping it in his suit? No. He can't do that, because his "suit" is just molecules moved around and changed to suit him, therefor his costume is part of his body. So the antidote came straight from his body, and he would have had to transmutate his body to create it.

In the first panel of that scan, all that's shown from Apocalypse were his legs. Any number of things he could've done while off panel. Again, you're extrapolating something that was not shown or even mentioned. Which is yet again, faulty logic. If the writer indended it to be that way, he would have made it more clear, but this is VERY ambiguous.

Apocalypse has never transmuted his body into liquid before.

Magneto wins this, because even if Apocalypse can transmute his body at a point more intricate than at a molecular level, Erik still has more options, and is more powerful.

Ok, now I think you're being facetious. Where did he get the antidote from? He injected them via his arms. As Ash said, his suit didn't hold it. His costume is created via his molecular control. Thus, we are left to conclude he created the antidote from his own body. It's simple logic given his powers and that it was his own body acting as the medium for the injection.

As for the 2nd scan, you're wrong. You're outright wrong. It's painfully obvious the gun is his arm morphed via his powers. Observe the elbow joint, the gears, the fact that the gun looks like his body, and the fact that he has morphed his arms into weapons before.


Ash, can you post some more scans? It's obvious we need to establish a pattern.

Edit: Magneto is plainly outclassed. Apocalypse can give himself any physical super power in existence. He has TP and TK greater than Xavier and Exodus. He's stronger, faster, and more durable. He has molecular control of his own body. He can even infect mags with a technorganic virus. Apoc has the greater number of options and greater power.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Ok, now I think you're being facetious. Where did he get the antidote from? He injected them via his arms. As Ash said, his suit didn't hold it. His costume is created via his molecular control. Thus, we are left to conclude he created the antidote from his own body. It's simple logic given his powers and that it was his own body acting as the medium for the injection.

You're basing his transmutation on an ambiguous scan of him pulling out some antidote. For all we know, he could have had it in his hand from the first panel. All we see of him is his legs, and nothing else.

Get me something more concrete, and then we can move on from there.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As for the 2nd scan, you're wrong. You're outright wrong. It's painfully obvious the gun is his arm morphed via his powers. Observe the elbow joint, the gears, the fact that the gun looks like his body, and the fact that he has morphed his arms into weapons before.

The gun could very well be his arm morphed, however, what exactly makes you think that the "bullets" were made of metal? They were more than likely fragments of his own body used as the projectiles.

Again, something more concrete would be nice.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Edit: Magneto is plainly outclassed. Apocalypse can give himself any physical super power in existence. He has TP and TK greater than Xavier and Exodus. He's stronger, faster, and more durable. He has molecular control of his own body. He can even infect mags with a technorganic virus. Apoc has the greater number of options and greater power.

And Magneto can basically manipulate an endless array of energy all around the globe, because electromagnetic energy is in pretty much everything. He can also manipulate more than em energy as well. Telepathy wouldn't mean much in this fight, and Magneto can lift far more with his magnetokinesis.... like when he lifted Avalon M and hurled it into space. Apoc is stronger, sure, but that doesn't make any kind of a difference in this fight. Apoc sure as hell isn't faster, and he doesn't have better reflexes either. Durability shouldn't matter either, because of Erik's shields.

Magneto's power base is larger, and more diverse. Have you ever seen Apoc do something like creating a wormhole, or creating a planet-wide electromagnetic pulse to disable every single machine on the planet, or manipulating OTHERS on a subatomic level, or sucking the life energy out of the Phoenix?

Magneto wins.

What about Apocalypse's ability to absorb energy? Or his matter manipulation? Or his reality warping? Or his celestial tech? Apocalypse has enormous ability to manipulate and absorb energy. His capacity is limitless.

Not to mention some of your feats for Magneto are highly questionable. Like the wormhole. Oh yes, and Apocalypse's ability to shut down a mutant's abilities. He could easily give himself that power. He demonstrated that on Exodus when he de-powered him and stuck him in a tomb until the modern era.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
His capacity is limitless.

Oh shut up, bran.

Edit: He made the god damn Living Monolith, didn't he?

Originally posted by demigawd
The problem is that Apoc's control over his atomic structure isn't enough to hold himself together against Magneto's power over sub-atomic components. Magneto can just will Apoc to discorporate...and he does. There's nothing Apoc can do to stop it.

damn...its sad that demigawd doesnt post anymore...

Originally posted by demigawd
Or Magneto could just open a black hole and suck Apoc in. Or he can control Apoc's electrical impulses so that Apoc has no control over his own body. What's Apoc going to do? Magneto's forcefield has held up against Phoenix and Galactus, and taken shots from Thor.

Magneto 9/10

Originally posted by batdude123
I did not make this long-winded post for nobody to read it.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who underestimate Erik Lensherr.

Magneto's control over lightning/electricity is far below Storm's. He only managed that in Uncanny 150 because he caught her by surprise, just as the issue stated. And still she was able to challenge his very limited control while in a condition where her control over the lightning was severely weakened owing to her being hurt so badly (and being written down as the lightning should not have even been able to hurt her).

Originally posted by Rutog98
Magneto's control over lightning/electricity is far below Storm's. He only managed that in Uncanny 150 because he caught her by surprise, just as the issue stated. And still she was able to challenge his very limited control while in a condition where her control over the lightning was severely weakened owing to her being hurt so badly (and being written down as the lightning should not have even been able to hurt her).

nevertheless...

erik >>>> ororo

Finally, something we can agree on. Storm is soooo overrated. **** Hudlin and this omega mutant bullshit.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
nevertheless...

erik >>>> ororo

Nevertheless, Storm>>>>>>Magneto.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Nevertheless, Storm>>>>>>Magneto.

............you're high. Apoc>Storm. Magneto>Storm. Exodus>Storm. Mr. Sinister>Storm. Storm is not omega level, and she's not anywhere near top tier.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Nevertheless, Storm>>>>>>Magneto.



Why are you back? (and why are you sticking to such odd beliefs?)

Originally posted by Rutog98
Nevertheless, Storm>>>>>>Magneto.


Freezing rain rocks magnetism, seriously

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
............you're high. Apoc>Storm. Magneto>Storm. Exodus>Storm. Mr. Sinister>Storm. Storm is not omega level, and she's not anywhere near top tier.

Storm>Exodus, Storm>Mr. Sinister (this guy doesn't really have any devistating powers), Storm>Magneto, Storm and Poccy? I don't know. Old school Poccy may have an advantage over Storm.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


Why are you back? (and why are you sticking to such odd beliefs?)

I never left. Somebody has to stand up for Ororo and let the board know that she is easily one of the most powerful beings on the planet.

Originally posted by Rutog98
I never left. Somebody has to stand up for Ororo and let the board know that she is easily one of the most powerful beings on the planet.

You need to meet HulkRulesAll . . .

Storm would just drop a thunderstorm on Magneto.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
One thrunderstorm has the power of severval Hydrogen
Originally posted by 2damnloud
It was like 13 Nagasaki-style Atomic Bombs.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Storm would just drop a thunderstorm on Magneto.

Bah.

Runner would stop her for no reason at all.

Originally posted by batdude123
Transmuting one's arm's doesn't mean that one would have enough control to transmute the tiny particles in one's body.

Originally posted by batdude123
Cool, but can Apocalypse do something as minute and intricate like transmuting his own iron in his blood?

Apocalypse have done some really wacky things with his body control. For example, this just another human disguise he made for himself. And you have to admit, it's pretty damn impressive, considering all the details, and being done by his mere thinking. Transmutate the iron in his blood? I'll say he probably could, if he just concentrated.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/harbinger.png

Thanks for the scan Ash. Pretty intricate matter manipulation there, wouldn't you say? Not to mention, Batdude, you seem to keep forgetting that Apoc can give himself any physical super power. What's to stop him from creating an anti magnetic field, or draining away Magneto's life energy, or creating a magnetic feedback loop, or using one of his temporal abilities or matter manipulation?

You're really not giving Apoc his credit.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Thanks for the scan Ash. Pretty intricate matter manipulation there, wouldn't you say? Not to mention, Batdude, you seem to keep forgetting that Apoc can give himself any physical super power. What's to stop him from creating an anti magnetic field, or draining away Magneto's life energy, or creating a magnetic feedback loop, or using one of his temporal abilities or matter manipulation?

You're really not giving Apoc his credit.

Can you show him doing this?

Jonn has the exact same ability and i never use BS like that for him because he's never done it,he could but he hasn't so it is speculation,just like Apoc turning into adamantium,there's a world of difference between Adamantium and other metals.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Can you show him doing this?

Well, here he transforms Ozymandias from normal man into a being of pure stone that can move like a man, as well possessing the ability to control stone, create independently acting semi-living stone beings/constructs that can even duplicate some super powers.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers19.png

Here it's also said that Apoc will–and did- recreate Ozymandias and his prophecy helix and temple after both were utterly destroyed.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/recreate.png

I should also mention that the first scan is also BEFORE his celestial tech upgrades. Which means this is his natural power.

Apoc doesn't do that....it is stated in the panel below that ozymadias is transformed by being slammed into Rama-tuts technology,all Apoc did is throw him back.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/harbinger.png

Continuing from the scan. Apocalypse here phased his hand into The Harbinger, then re-arranges his insides (matter re-arrangement, as it seems) to turn him from an unlimited instantaneous adapter/evolver into a living mega bomb with the powers he already had developed. He will destroy New York City when he explodes.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/rearrange.png

....Apocalypse says that he is just messing with his mechanics,not manipulating his matter,So Apoc could be on a bomb squad whoo freakin hoo

Originally posted by Martian_mind
....Apocalypse says that he is just messing with his mechanics,not manipulating his matter,So Apoc could be on a bomb squad whoo freakin hoo

Apoc says he reconfigures the mechanism within Harbinger.

This is what the Dictionary says about the word reconfigure: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reconfigure

"to change the shape or formation of; remodel; restructure."

"To rearrange the elements or settings of"

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Apoc says he reconfigures the mechanism within Harbinger.

This is what the Dictionary says about the word reconfigure: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reconfigure

"to change the shape or formation of; remodel; restructure."

"To rearrange the elements or settings of"

And when people alter machinery they often say it's been reconfigured,so your point is null.

and he changed the formation of his wiring and parts,the Guy is a genius so it wouldn't be hard,nothing you've shown is close to conclusive.

My god, you people deconstruct and downplay every feat the guy has. Does anyone ever do this to Magneto? I don't think so.