How much power do the Jedi really have?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Gryn Jabar
In the event of a civil war, could the jedi fight for the republic if the republic had no army? How powerful are they politically? Here's three scenarios illustrating this:
Note: Either pre Clone Wars (no standing army OR clone army)
1) The republic commits genocide on a planet, despite Jedi protests and threats. What happens?
2) The republic is invaded by some alien force.
3) Civil war erupts. The republic is completely unprepared for this, and has no army or mobilization set up.

Tangible God
1.) The Jedi take power of the Senate by force if necessary. (i.e. ROTS.)

2.) The Republic and the Jedi are royally screwed. (i.e. The Yuuzhan Vong invasion which cost over 350 trillion lives to a Republic WITH a large standing military and uper-Luke.)

3.) The Jedi are once again screwed since they are "keepers of the peace, not soldiers." Keepers of the peace with only 10 000 waning members facing an army of potential billions, maybe trillions if it's a droid army. Peace Keepers that will have no political power once the Factioners either obliterate the Coruscant and the Senate building, or capture Coruscant and the senate building. And why? Because 10 000 Jedi cannot hold out against half a galaxy of enemies.

Of course if the Jedi HAD control of a Clone Army, then #1 and #3 would be a success. #2 would be possible, depending on whether they have a large enough military. And as long as the invading enemies are the Ssi Ruuk, or the Yuuzhan Vong.

Gryn Jabar
Originally posted by Tangible God
1.) The Jedi take power of the Senate by force if necessary. (i.e. ROTS.)

Then what? Does the rest of the galaxy just shrug and take it?

Tangible God
Well, if noones there to label the Jedi as traitors like Palpatine did, then yes.

Captain REX
1 & 3) The Jedi would pretty much stay out of the way

2) The Jedi would do their best to protect the Republic

Ushgarak
Indeed. If the Jedi ever were to seize power, it would only be in a situation so utterly dire that the chances are they could get considerable political support for it.

Fishy
In Situation one the Jedi couldn't do anything except for threathen some more publicly withdraw support from the Chancellor and hope that they are popular enough to get support from the Senators... If they would be real tricky they would make up some enemy to attack the Republic in which case they would be needed and they can easily destroy the Senate. But I doubt the Jedi would do something like that.

2.) Without an army the alien force will have to be small. The Jedi would have to react at the start too and hope that there are enough people willing to fight and die for the republic. The Jedi will need them to destroy the aliens. Otherwise they are dead, and thats if they will attack.

3.) The Jedi are screwed as well as the Republic. A civil war can be many things but if there is no clear side to choose from the Jedi will just have to stay out of the way. If the Jedi are a target in this civil war then they are most likely dead from the start. Because very few would attack the Jedi unless they had the army to do so.

Darth Orcus
The Jedi never realised their full potential - their own restrictive dogma limited any possible influence they had over their own destiny.

No one dared to dick with the Empire when the Sith were in charge.

PS: Spare me the Luke Skywalker mentions - he did nothing to bring down the Sith. That came from within (Vader vs. Sidious).

overlord
If the jedi ever had real power (political for example) they would probably easily be lured to the dark side. They'd probably get egocentrical.

Ushgarak
Just about EVERYONE dared to dick with the Empire when it was in charge. That was the point- it was innately self-destructive.

Borbarad
Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
1) The republic commits genocide on a planet, despite Jedi protests and threats. What happens?

Well...the republic would never commit genocide on a planet since they don't have any army. If they do it the Jedi would investigate who's responsible and arrest the person and they would have a huge group of Senators supporting them.



Well...this is speculative. We've never seen an alien force attacking the Republic while the Republic had 10,000 force users. If you think about it the very small amount of Jedi that were present during the YV invasion did a pretty good job and in the end you had 3 Jedi (Luke, Jacen and Jaina) killing the entire YV headquarter. I know that Luke, Jacen and Jaina are the most powerful force users left at this point but more powerful than 10,000 Jedi ? I doubt it.



A civil war ? Well...it took Dooku's / Sidious' diplomatic skills to form the CIS which contained the most powerful commerce organisations. A normal civil war can be stopped pretty fast either by diplomacy or by power - which army in the Galaxy would be able to stop 10,000 Jedi ? And if not using droids or "mindless" clone troopers - how many people do you think would dare to fight Jedi in direct confrontation ?

Deus Ex
Good points there.

Ushgarak
It's not at all difficult to create an army that can destroy 10000 Jedi. One planet alone could produce the numbers required. Even if a Jedi is worth 100 men- an exaggeration- compared to the manpower of the Galaxy that isn't worth squat.

This was rather the point of it all.

Tangible God
Yeah, I'm pretty sure even The old Red Army could take out its fair share of Jedi, not to mention the SW galaxy. No Jedi generation, even at its highest amount in population, could take on a galaxy of people.

Gryn Jabar
I'm sure that the Jedi could mind **** at least enough people to get a sizeable army, then seize handle the galaxy. That, or pull a Nihilus and reverse force **** the galaxy.

overlord
The jedi can't take over the galaxy, they would get dependant, they would get egocentrical, they would get angry, they would turn to the dark side and rivalry and shit would tear apart the whole jedi order.

They should just stick to policing, just look at Anakin.. OMFG!! You people get me into the council but don't grant me the jedi master title? AARRGH!!!

Borbarad
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's not at all difficult to create an army that can destroy 10000 Jedi. One planet alone could produce the numbers required. Even if a Jedi is worth 100 men- an exaggeration- compared to the manpower of the Galaxy that isn't worth squat.

That's not the point Ushgarak.
Most people in the SW galaxy will not even try to attack Jedi in a direct confrontation because that is equal to commit suicide. The Jedi by any means have a legendary status in the SW universe and this is often pointed out - in the EU as well as in the movies.

And even if you can built an army with people willing to fight Jedi (like the KotoR time Mandalorians or something like that) they still won't be able to win against 10,000 Jedi because what can you do against people that can manipulate minds, deflect lasers and throw around things with tons of weight or simply make mountains collapse or stuff like that ? A conventional army doesn't have any chance against this.

@TG:
The Red Army ? You must be joking.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Tangible God
2.) The Republic and the Jedi are royally screwed. (i.e. The Yuuzhan Vong invasion which cost over 350 trillion lives to a Republic WITH a large standing military and uper-Luke.)

I thought it was 365 trillion.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I thought it was 365 trillion. Ah what's a couple trillion here or there?

Tangible God
Originally posted by Borbarad
@TG:
The Red Army ? You must be joking. What with the Soviet's total disregard of their men, and their love of sending them all in at once, they're bound to take out a good few Jedi.

Deus Ex
Yeah. You have to realize that the Soviets shot more of their men in the back then they shot the enemy from the front. Add to this their current rep for using nerve gas on friendlies and really, the Reds don't need enemies.

Lana
Originally posted by Borbarad
That's not the point Ushgarak.
Most people in the SW galaxy will not even try to attack Jedi in a direct confrontation because that is equal to commit suicide. The Jedi by any means have a legendary status in the SW universe and this is often pointed out - in the EU as well as in the movies.

And even if you can built an army with people willing to fight Jedi (like the KotoR time Mandalorians or something like that) they still won't be able to win against 10,000 Jedi because what can you do against people that can manipulate minds, deflect lasers and throw around things with tons of weight or simply make mountains collapse or stuff like that ? A conventional army doesn't have any chance against this.

@TG:
The Red Army ? You must be joking.

Overwhelm them with numbers; Jedi aren't superhuman or anything, and outnumber them enough and they can be defeated. We know this already, remember the Battle of Geonosis? The Clone Wars?

Darth Traya
The Red Army would win through sheer attrition.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Borbarad
That's not the point Ushgarak.
Most people in the SW galaxy will not even try to attack Jedi in a direct confrontation because that is equal to commit suicide. The Jedi by any means have a legendary status in the SW universe and this is often pointed out - in the EU as well as in the movies.

And even if you can built an army with people willing to fight Jedi (like the KotoR time Mandalorians or something like that) they still won't be able to win against 10,000 Jedi because what can you do against people that can manipulate minds, deflect lasers and throw around things with tons of weight or simply make mountains collapse or stuff like that ? A conventional army doesn't have any chance against this.

@TG:
The Red Army ? You must be joking.

Err, sorry, but it is PRECISELY the point, which is what the films show.

Their powers don't mater- throw an entire war machine against the Jedi and they will be curshed- unless they have their own army to back them of course.

The end of AOTC showed exactly this- that conventional forces WILL overwhelm the Jedi. I am very surprised you would possibly think otherwise.

Jedi are good- but simply not that good. Mace made it very clear that they could NOT defend the Republic against war.

Veneficus
I suppose it would depend on what time period of Jedi we are talking about. KOTOR Era and previous seemed to have more numbers maybe close to 30,000 or so IMO. Plus ancient Jedi lived in a time when War was common so they IMO would be a far better fightning force then the PT Jedi which pretty much sucked in general. Also Ancient Jedi seemed to command far more power (examples: Nomi Sunrider, Master Vodo, Master Thon, and even Revan when he was a Jedi was apperently quite powerful) than the movie era Jedi.

Tangible God
Probably because the EU Jedi AREN'T movie Era, then their abilities are blown way out of proportion since they aren't confined to the movie scripture.

Captain REX
What Tangible said. The EU Jedi are blown out of proportion. Also, the ancient Jedi have the Sith on the opposite side, not in the government they're protecting. wink

overlord
Another topic: How much power do the jawa really have?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.