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crap... didn't realise this was coming up so soon..... having given it a thought yet

ok... it's dark in an amusement park.... i'm all dressed in black so will be very difficult to see... plus my SS (Spider Sense) will warn me if TBK spots me... so i figure even though he has Venom and Sabretooth he doesn't have any advantage in stealth.... in fact SC might be the superior there

long range or up close my weapons will be devastating to the venom symbiote (and fairly unpleasant for humans and mutants as well..... by that i mean it'd cook/melt them on impact) whereas his ranged weaponry will be ineffectual against my armour

if he tries to extend tendrils towards me they are easily dodge-able with my speed and SS and even easier to cut up with my lightsabers

in fact the symbiote is so vulnerable to lightsabers that in a close quarters match he'd have no chance of winning.... and at a distance he can't harm me..... he can't hide due to the SS... his strength advantage is meaningless......looks like Scarlet wraps this one up quickly then invites all his evil empire pals around to play on the rides

This battle will stay up for at least a week...and possibly a day or two longer.

Does spider-sense work around/against the symbiotes?

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Does spider-sense work around/against the symbiotes?

Heckuva question...it'll be interesting to see the debates for and against this.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Does spider-sense work around/against the symbiotes?

It definitely isn't affected by being near them... Don't really know if it warns of one of them creeping up his leg with the intent to devour his brain though. (sorry, just wanted to use the "sneaking up his leg and devouring his brain" thing. Not saying I think it's really feasible...)

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Does spider-sense work around/against the symbiotes?

to venom or any of his offspring?


nu



uh...

sorry scoobs but you got nadda in terms of stealth compared to me....

being covered in a black suit doesn't give you any sort of advantage due to sabretooth's nightvision... (same reason he led daredevil into a pitch black sewer to fight him before finding out he was blind). between that my heightened senses and my symbiote moc spidey sense you're not going to "stealth" your way anywhere...

as for your boy.. it would seem that general grevious, though agile, is no spiderman in terms of agility... and suffice it to say, that's not a good thing... venom gutted scarlett spider with ease, then he later beat the crap out of poor ol ben in "along came a spider" no problem... so your spider sense (why are you arguing spider sense again? why would that be working anyway?I mean, symbiotes can adapt to it and overcome even if it WAS working for some reason here... venom did it to spiderman, his children did it to spiderman, carnage did it to venom etc etc).. for all it's applicability is pretty damn near useless in this fight.

as for your blasts.. they ARE short bursts are they not?...

I mean, I've already laid down how venom can straight up DEAL with continuous blasts, radiation, pure light, fire, and sound being poured on him... yet he continues to prevail. So if you are indeed trying to strike me with short burst blasts, all I can say is good luck with that ...

Truly, it will be very difficult to hit me with all my amalgamated speed and agility as it is, but mixed in with photgraphic reflexes fast enough to literally catch bullets and an energy shield (or several) with a durability to clash with it's vibranium counterpart unfaultered to boot... well about 40% of your battle effectiveness against THE BIG KAHUNA goes out the window from the get go.

as far as your lightsabers go.... spinning them around would almost be impressive if it weren't for obi-wan having totally disarmed grevious in about 12 seconds with a discernible amount of ease... using TM's use of Swordsman's skills and his photographic reflexes to pick up on your patterns.. it wouldn't be all that hard at all to match you...

how you ask? quite simply really... use my energy sheilds to close the distance.. tendril around you like crazy to keep some of your arms busy while I chop off appendages with my energy claws, katana, or adamantium claws.. take a lightsaber as the rest of your arm falls to the ground.

unfortunately, even with 4 arms and some lightsabers, you simply don't have an advantage with appendages.. with my tendrils.. that once again falls to me... you simply can't fight the tendrils and a master swordsman/hand to hand combatant at the same time... especially one as durable, and conditioned as TBK. You can't afford to make a mistake, where as I can... you have less efficiency with you precog here, where as I don't... you can't defend yourself against oncoming tendrils and webbing/claws/etc forever, where as I can keep attacking you with such indefinitely...

my last two opponents knew their best shot at taking THE BIG KAHUNA down was by doing it from a distance, using methods that kept TBK away from them in h2h situations while in turn attacking him.... where they actually had the tools to attempt such a maneuver, you simply do no....



.....now I've just read a couple of things in the first two posts and some B.S. can not remain unchecked.... lol....

scoobs seems to think that fever will be able to simply dodge the tendrils... ummm no.... he can't "dodge" the tendrils... he can try.. but it will fail.. again.. spiderman using a more agile body than grevious can't "dodge the tendrils" what chance have you scoob? your only option is to run away...

as for my strength advantage being useless in this fight.. again.... ummm NO .

we have an entire amusment park full of assorted things to throw at you... check out marvel knights spiderman 11.. venom brings down nearly a city block with ease by sprouting out tendrils in 100 different directions and pulling... I can use the same technique to literally bury you in debris... quick end to a simple fight...

you survive?.. you come up out of the tons of rubble for some reason? that's just fine... I'll off ya when you do, as you'll obviously be at a considerable disadvantage...


and if we get in close of course.. one adamantium packin super powered punch oughta take care of fever period..... maybe two...

sorry scoobs but fever's going down in this round.... he had a good run... but it's over now...

Hahaha, I see you've adopted calling Scoob's guy "Scarlet Fever" from Sentrylocks. (teehee, slightly degrading nicknames are FUN!!!) Just don't adopt Scooby references. Dog's the epitome of badass, and though shalt not useth hiseth nameth in vaineth! ETH!!!

whoops..... I literally thought that WAS his name...


bleh... I'm stickin with it.. I like fever better...

It was Scarlet Cyborg. Sentrylocks called him Scarlet Fever (like the disease) as a joke. Scoob responds by killing him.

good response.....


I still like that name better... it's like "hey I'm scarlet fever, I'm lethal"

It's why if an undesirable person asks your sign, it's good to be a Cancer.

"Hi, I'll rot your internal organs and kill you."

lol "undesirable person" way to be P.C. lol.

The Jinzin vs the Scoob..it's a TIE.

wha?

Originally posted by jinzin
wha?

Never mind

That wasn't debate... That was a discussion on painful, disgusting, possibly fatal diseases. Geeze.

Now if we want real debate... Fear this yo!

Originally posted by Dizzle
That wasn't debate... That was a discussion on painful, disgusting, possibly fatal diseases. Geeze.

Now if we want real debate... Fear this yo!

dammit dizzle.. don't make my thread so terrifying.. I don't want you to scare people away from this fight...

Sorry sir, won't happen again.

Hmmmmm , i'm voting for jinzin no amount of lightsabers are gonna save grevious's ass this time.

Question for the combattants re. spider sense.

Venom is invisible to Peter's spider sense because Peter wore the symbiote as a costume for so long that his SS is accustomed to its presence.

Was Ben Reilley cloned from Peter before or after he wore the black costume?

I want to say after...the first appearence of the black costume was Amazing Spider-Man #252, right after Secret Wars (if memory serves). The Ben Reilly stuff hadn't happened yet.

{Edit} ...to Lam's question below, I'm not sure.

The Clone Saga (ugh) definitely came after, but Ben had been living his own life for "years" (Marvel Time, ugh) prior to that. Was he cloned in the original Jackal stories back in the 70's or sometime later?

it doesn't matter... even if his spider sense was working for some reason the symbiote can adapt to it and overcome it... I've given several instances where this has occured.

and several other instances of venom obliterating ben anyways...

I have an issue where scarlet spider beat venom with his impact webbing.................

I have that issue as well... and scarlet spider GOT LUCKY with his impact webbing... using it to seperate venom from his host after shooting it down venom's mouth... that's not going to happen here... hell even ben admitted he got a lucky shot in with it.. the next time they fought, his tricks didn't work... all that happened was venom grabbed his ankle and used him as a human baseball bat all along the roof of a building...

before ben got lucky with that shot he was losing badly... nearly submitted to being choked out by his own sweater....lol...

and when he did win, it was also with the assistance of the fact that brock has a slightly above human level durability under the symbiote... TBK however does not suffer the same weakness....

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Does spider-sense work around/against the symbiotes?
Originally posted by Dizzle
It definitely isn't affected by being near them... Don't really know if it warns of one of them creeping up his leg with the intent to devour his brain though. (sorry, just wanted to use the "sneaking up his leg and devouring his brain" thing. Not saying I think it's really feasible...)

Originally posted by jinzin
to venom or any of his offspring?


nu



uh...

sorry to disappoint you... but it's only Spider-Man's spider sense that doesn't work against Venom and Carnage.... Scarlet Spider's works just fine

as proved in this story where Scarlet beats Venom


http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6636/cover8fk.jpg

Originally posted by jinzin
(why are you arguing spider sense again? why would that be working anyway?I mean, symbiotes can adapt to it and overcome even if it WAS working for some reason here... venom did it to spiderman, his children did it to spiderman, carnage did it to venom etc etc)

the only reason that Venom could adapt to Pete's spider sense was because they had been bonded .... all his offspring share his genetic memory so they can block it too.... Venom was never bonded to Reilly.... who is slightly different from Pete.... genetically speaking

Scarlet's SS has been proven to work just fine against venom

Originally posted by jinzin
as for your boy.. it would seem that general grevious, though agile, is no spiderman in terms of agility

go watch clone wars again, Grievous was performing huge leaps, incredibly fast movements and was even capable of fighting Jedi Masters while standing on his hands and holding his Lightsaber(s) in his feet.... He's Spidey's equal in agility

Originally posted by jinzin
as for your blasts.. they ARE short bursts are they not?

short bursts in rapid fire.... and their power source is in no danger of running out

Originally posted by jinzin
I mean, I've already laid down how venom can straight up DEAL with continuous blasts, radiation, pure light, fire, and sound being poured on him...

the symbiote always suffers though.... in fact in the examples where he does barely manage to survive sound blasts and whatnot, his symbiote is only ever partially covering him... a couple of plasma hits to vaporise the symbiote leaves you exposed and unprotected

Originally posted by jinzin
photgraphic reflexes fast enough to literally catch bullets and an energy shield

Spider-Man can catch bullets too (see recent issues).... and your energy shield is a very small circular shape that can only protect a very small portion of you at a time

Originally posted by jinzin
as far as your lightsabers go.... spinning them around would almost be impressive if it weren't for obi-wan having totally disarmed grevious in about 12 seconds with a discernible amount of ease... using TM's use of Swordsman's skills and his photographic reflexes to pick up on your patterns.. it wouldn't be all that hard at all to match you...

Obi Wan fought a post Clone Wars Grievous who was carrying an injury and had no SS... you're not SC has all of Grievous's training and skill + danger sense and kickass armour..... if you even came close to performing a stroke that could damage his wrists he'd have more than enough time to move that arm.... or thrust through you with another

Originally posted by jinzin
how you ask? quite simply really... use my energy sheilds to close the distance.. tendril around you like crazy to keep some of your arms busy while I chop off appendages with my energy claws, katana, or adamantium claws.. take a lightsaber as the rest of your arm falls to the ground.

your energy weapons are useless against my armour, Your Katana is also severely impaired by the bulletproof aspects of the armour to the point where it will slow down to such a degree as to be ineffective against my droid body...Claws... well, to use them you have to get very close... and that just gives me more advantages

Originally posted by jinzin
unfortunately, even with 4 arms and some lightsabers, you simply don't have an advantage with appendages.. with my tendrils

your tendrils which are very easy to slice off considering my SS gives me plenty of warning for my superfast limbs to react

Originally posted by jinzin
you have less efficiency with you precog here, where as I don't...

My pre-cog works just fine.... whereas yours is... well.... nonexistent Venom's "moc spider sense" is just his ability to see in various directions at once..... it doesn't give him any advance warning

Originally posted by jinzin
my last two opponents knew their best shot at taking THE BIG KAHUNA down was by doing it from a distance, using methods that kept TBK away from them in h2h situations while in turn attacking him.... where they actually had the tools to attempt such a maneuver, you simply do no....

hell.... if you stay at a distance my plasma blasts will take care of you easily enough.... i just have more options up close in this case.... plus your shield.... when i hit it with Impact Webbing it'll just wrap around it and then travel up your arm... continual hits will incase Venom just like it did the other time he fought Scarlet Spider (in that comic i posted)

FYI, Impact Webbing took Venom out for a good couple of minutes leaving him helpless.... when that happens here i'll just follow it up with a Lightsaber assault

Originally posted by jinzin
scoobs seems to think that fever will be able to simply dodge the tendrils... ummm no.... he can't "dodge" the tendrils... he can try.. but it will fail.. again.. spiderman using a more agile body than grevious can't "dodge the tendrils" what chance have you scoob? your only option is to run away...

Spider-man had a useless SS... i don't... plus CW Grievous is just as agile as Spidey has ever been

Originally posted by jinzin
we have an entire amusment park full of assorted things to throw at you... check out marvel knights spiderman 11.. venom brings down nearly a city block with ease by sprouting out tendrils in 100 different directions and pulling

and Spidey has time to knock him around and catch all the debris with webbing to save a bunch of people.... with the same speed, and no reason to try to save anyone, as soon as you attempt that you'll be sporting several new holes through your suit and body

Originally posted by jinzin
and if we get in close of course.. one adamantium packin super powered punch oughta take care of fever period..... maybe two...


you wont be punching anyone from inside an impact webbing cocoon... or once the flesh has been melted/cut from your bones

Originally posted by grey fox
Hmmmmm , i'm voting for jinzin no amount of lightsabers are gonna save grevious's ass this time.

dammit... at least wait for a couple of responses before voting.... and BTW...Lightsabers and plasma blasts will go through Venom, Taskmaster or Sabretooth pretty damn easily

Uatu says:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8308/uatu1el.jpg

this, coupled with Grievous's training in tactics and close quarters combat, makes SC a formidable match for anyone

unlike Khell and Piggy, it looks like Jin and myself are going to be on at different times.... so not as much back and forth arguing to be had

to get a fuller idea of the match, wait a couple of days before voting so you can read the counters and new attack plans from both of us (this should go for all the matches)

On that cover, what's with the mullet on Eddie Brock?

hey who is a good opponent for me

Originally posted by K Von Doom
On that cover, what's with the mullet on Eddie Brock?

that's his old "do"

Originally posted by Spawnrules
hey who is a good opponent for me

a chimp?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t375283.html

no someone in kmc forums

Originally posted by Scoobless
sorry to disappoint you... but it's only Spider-Man's spider sense that doesn't work against Venom and Carnage.... Scarlet Spider's works just fine

as proved in this story where Scarlet beats Venom


http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6636/cover8fk.jpg


as proved? how? scarlet was losing that entire fight after he got gutted by venom.... he won by luck... then admitted to winning by luck.. then "proved" it the next time they fought.. and venom flung him around like a damned rag doll...

Originally posted by Scoobless
the only reason that Venom could adapt to Pete's spider sense was because they had been bonded .... all his offspring share his genetic memory so they can block it too.... Venom was never bonded to Reilly.... who is slightly different from Pete.... genetically speaking

Scarlet's SS has been proven to work just fine against venom

like when he was gutted by venom? no.. how about when venom nearly killed him by stragling him with his own sweater? no... oh I know.. how about when venom grabbed him and smacked him up and down an apartment building like a crash dummy?...pffffft

His own sweater...lmao

Don't start talking about clone-wars or some SW fan will report back to the forum and their will be a huge ruckus over wether clone-wars is EU or not.

whao... that came out wierd... sorry guys...

Originally posted by Scoobless
dammit... at least wait for a couple of responses before voting.... and BTW...Lightsabers and plasma blasts will go through Venom, Taskmaster or Sabretooth pretty damn easily

it would be hard pressed to go through venom alone.. it WOULDN'T go through sabretooth (adamantium)... and while they could pass through TM.. they sure as hell ain't "passing through" THE BIG KAHUNA... that is of course assuming you were lucky enough to connect in the first place.

Scoobless , I'm sorry to say you picked the weakest body out of the lot , grievous has no major armour on his stomach where all of his vital organs are and after you have been de-lightsabred , I'm guessing jinzin will web up the organ area and rip it right out.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Uatu says:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8308/uatu1el.jpg

this, coupled with Grievous's training in tactics and close quarters combat, makes SC a formidable match for anyone

spiderman who, also happens to get absolutely butt raped in nearly every confrontation he has with the V-man, who got downright HUMILIATED by a weaker, slower, and more powerless version of sabretooth even WITH punisher's assistance, who had a hell of a time dealing with taskmaster on more than one occasion.

(and by the way.... YOU ARE NOT SPIDERMAN!) my character's more spiderman than you are.. at least TBK knows peter parker due to pete's bonding with the symbiote...

now that i've more carefully thought this through....

strength.. this is obvious.. tbk was always one of the strongest bruisers in the tourny right from the get go... where grevious' cyborg body gives him considerable strength, he is no TBK.

agility... venom has comparative agility with spiderman, sabretooth, proved himself to be quite agile during his x-men training sessions, and taskmaster can memic the agility of both spiderman and daredevil as well as numerous others with stuning perfection...

grevious is a robotic cyborg who can stand on his hands and jump really high.. pfffft.... agility goes to me...

speed... again.. scarlet fever only has one character to contribute to his speed.. I have enhanced speed and reflexes from sabretooth that has been further augmented.. then the symbiote lending even more speed and faster reflexes.. then TM's ability to go double speed at will... while you may be able to run faster.. this is not a foot race and you will get destroyed in combative and reflexive speed thanks to my amalgamation... speed goes to me...

fighting ability... scarlet has a decent fighting ability with unorthodox moves... while TBK boasts a level seven fighting ability, superior agility and a symbiote that gives options for even more unorthodox moves coupled with sabretooth's training and natural instincts for fighting which according to logan are superb, and TM's daily training routines that put him in leagues with marvels best h2h fighters as well as his ability to use photgraphic reflexes which allow him to pick up on suttle patterns in his opponents fighting style... fighting ability goes to me...

ranged weaponry.. we both have webbs but yours runs out and mine doesn't, my webbing is stronger and more resilient than yours. you have short burst fire which would be an advantage if you could hit me or do significant damage with them.. but I have precision aiming with my beretas and you have weak points.. my symbiote also gives me more options and versatility to make use of it for long ranged attacks against you... this is either a tie or it goes to me...

reflexes... (recalls examples of venom ALONE trouncing scarlet, sabretooth ALONE using superior reflexes to grab spidey's throat)... mine, nuff said.

durability... adamantium skeleton and two healing factors (one enhanced) doesn't hurt me too badly there if I meay say so myself.. with shields and a symbiote for further support... i'll claim victory to this as well...

versatility.. symbiote = mine.

adaptability.. photographic reflexes= mine

experience.. sabretooth= mine.

after carefully thining this through.. I'm curious what physical advantages exactly, do you think you have in this fight? if any...

Originally posted by grey fox
Scoobless , I'm sorry to say you picked the weakest body out of the lot , grievous has no major armour on his stomach where all of his vital organs are and after you have been de-lightsabred , I'm guessing jinzin will web up the organ area and rip it right out.

if I so choose.. i could as easily gut him, or cut him in half with my katana... or mercy kill him with a bullet to the brain... or smother him with symbiote.. or crush him with it.. or throw tons and tons of rubble, amusement park rides, etc etc on top of him for a burial.

........ i think i made the right choice voting for jinzin

thank you..

I believe you did as well

Originally posted by grey fox
Scoobless , I'm sorry to say you picked the weakest body out of the lot , grievous has no major armour on his stomach where all of his vital organs are and after you have been de-lightsabred , I'm guessing jinzin will web up the organ area and rip it right out.

Er, actually he's wearing the Kull armor (from his 3rd pick). Not taking sides, just wanted to clarify.

Yeah but doesn't it say in the notes that the kull armour is only coveirng his arms .

Originally posted by grey fox
Yeah but doesn't it say in the notes that the kull armour is only coveirng his arms .

you misunderstood...

"Character Notes: The Kull armor only covers 2 of Grievous' arms."

it covers everything except two of his arms

Originally posted by jinzin
as proved? how? scarlet was losing that entire fight after he got gutted by venom.... he won by luck... then admitted to winning by luck.. then "proved" it the next time they fought.. and venom flung him around like a damned rag doll...

proved by the fact that his spider sense was working throughout the whole fight

Originally posted by jinzin
like when he was gutted by venom? no.. how about when venom nearly killed him by stragling him with his own sweater? no... oh I know.. how about when venom grabbed him and smacked him up and down an apartment building like a crash dummy?...pffffft

he had never fought Venom before.... of course he'd take some hits... doesn't change the fact that his SS works against him

Originally posted by grey fox
Don't start talking about clone-wars or some SW fan will report back to the forum and their will be a huge ruckus over wether clone-wars is EU or not.

I don't care if it's EU... that's the character i'm using

OUCH !!!!

Originally posted by jinzin
who got downright HUMILIATED by a weaker, slower, and more powerless version of sabretooth even WITH punisher's assistance

are you talking about "Designer Genes"? because i have that and i don't recall Spidey being "humiliated"... in fact Punisher almost killed sabretooth... Spidey only ever got in between them to stop them from killing each other

Originally posted by jinzin
(and by the way.... YOU ARE NOT SPIDERMAN!)

never said i was... but being as he and Reilly were essentially the same person then i gotta say that i feel his feats stands

Originally posted by jinzin
grevious is a robotic cyborg who can stand on his hands and jump really high

as well as many other things you failed to mention (i posted a few of these in a previous reply)

Originally posted by jinzin
then TM's ability to go double speed at will

double human speed.... not double Venom speed... he didn't watch a fastforwarded DVD of Venom fighting

Originally posted by jinzin
fighting ability.....

Grievous can beat down multiple jedi masters, now he has a spider sense and a much higher invulnerability rating... not to mention a couple of plasma cannons... he was trained to fight opponents who could see what he was going to do next... none of your guys can match that

Originally posted by jinzin
I have precision aiming with my beretas and you have weak points..

not to bullets i don't

Originally posted by jinzin
reflexes... (recalls examples of venom ALONE trouncing scarlet, .

Venom beat scarlet, Scarlet beat Venom.... but CW Grievous beats Jedi masters on a constant basis... in fact he never lost a close quarters fight until after Mace damaged him from a distance

Originally posted by jinzin
durability... adamantium skeleton and two healing factors (one enhanced) doesn't hurt me too badly there if I meay say so myself.. with shields and a symbiote for further support.

Symbiote Shields may as well be butter to my plasma weapons and lightsabers, your energy shield is too small to matter, your healing factors will be severely impeded by cauterised wounds and chunks of flesh cut from you....

while i have armour that is invulnerable to your ranged weapons covering a bulletproof alloy body.... your claws could pierce that armour to a small degree, but will be slowed very significantly... so much so that they probably couldn't do much more than scratch my droid hide.... and to do that you have to come well within my lightsaber reach

Originally posted by jinzin
versatility.. symbiote = mine.

adaptability.. photographic reflexes= mine

experience.. sabretooth= mine.

versatility, sure the symbiote can change your appearance or pick up some loose change for you... but if extends towards me it'll be ridiculously easy to slice up

photographic reflexes....

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9222/agentx04pg033ls.th.jpghttp://img58.imageshack.us/img58/8320/agentx04pg040tz.th.jpghttp://img58.imageshack.us/img58/1990/agentx04pg054mu.th.jpg

not as useful as you make them out to be

Experience...Sabretooth has a ton of experience in gutting humans, Grievous had years of war experience before he became the most feared warrior in the galaxy.... his Jedi killing experience is far more useful than your thug experience

Originally posted by jinzin
if I so choose.. i could as easily gut him, or cut him in half with my katana... or mercy kill him with a bullet to the brain... or smother him with symbiote.. or crush him with it.. or throw tons and tons of rubble, amusement park rides, etc etc on top of him for a burial.

no guts to "gut" plus your claws can't just slash my armour... they'll be slowed severely if not stopped entirely, a katana that gets stopped by my armour or shredded by my sabers, a bullet that cant get through my armour *sigh*, symbiote that can't extend to me without being sliced/vaporised, tons of rubble are ridiculously easy to avoid with superspeed/agility and spider sense...

maybe you should think this through some more

Originally posted by grey fox
i think i made the right choice voting for jinzin

if you agreed with the post that was made just prior to that reply then you obviously don't understand what my armour is capable of or how skilled Grievous is

Originally posted by Scoobless
if you agreed with the post that was made just prior to that reply then you obviously don't understand what my armour is capable of or how skilled Grievous is

Grievous is a skilled tactical commander and killer , but he is still mortal and can still have his body ripped to peaces . i stand by my choice .



You glorify his training . His training was to simply throw off the Jedi's sense so they wouldn't be able to use their pre-cog .

Originally posted by grey fox
You glorify his training . His training was to simply throw off the Jedi's sense so they wouldn't be able to use their pre-cog .

no it doesn't... you can't stop a Jedi from using the force just by having fight training

WRONG.

Dooku told him to use fear and intimidation to throw off the Jedi's concentration

No concentration , no force .

Actually, Fox is right... That's also the point of the unorthodox moves, I think. Totally unexpected things can fool Force sense. (or at least reduce its effectiveness- goes along with the concentration thing) Grievous is disgustingly skilled, but he definitely specializes in Jedi slaying over all around combat.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Actually, Fox is right... That's also the point of the unorthodox moves, I think. Totally unexpected things can fool Force sense. (or at least reduce its effectiveness- goes along with the concentration thing) Grievous is disgustingly skilled

"Totally unexpected things" can fool humans, mutants and symbiotes too... and with no lightsabers of their own to defend with, they'll be losing body parts by the kilo.... and with his Spider Sense and armour he can avoid taking damage himself

TBK has nothing that will stop a lightsaber swipe from someone as strong and fast as Grievous.... his single wrist mounted shield may be able to slow one blade but the other three will cut through his flesh like it isn't even there, cauterizing the wounds, preventing the healing factors from working effectively and reducing the strength, speed and movement of his opponent

Originally posted by Dizzle
he definitely specializes in Jedi slaying over all around combat.

he was a warrior long before he ever became a cyborg, also Scarlet's experience will help... along with the Kull's experience

Good match so far and I see it's half time now so http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=2713

Originally posted by Scoobless
another misunderstanding (I blame Digi) the kull armour covers everything EXCEPT two of his arms

wtf.

I'm assuming this is a joke...I've been as exacting as possible...minor misunderstandings like this are bound to occur. However, I do apologize for any question of meaning.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
wtf.

I'm assuming this is a joke...I've been as exacting as possible...minor misunderstandings like this are bound to occur. However, I do apologize for any question of meaning.

not a joke (although it sounds a little like one) Jin and Grey Fox both posted with the point that the armour only covers two arms.... rather than everything except two arms

Originally posted by grey fox
Yeah but doesn't it say in the notes that the kull armour is only coveirng his arms .

*sigh*

Originally posted by Scoobless
not a joke (although it sounds a little like one) Jin and Grey Fox both posted with the point that the armour only covers two arms.... rather than everything except two arms



*sigh*

THE CHAMPION DEMANDS PERFECTION! (whipcrack) BOW! (thank you sir, may I have another?) NOW!!! (swift kick in the groin)

Don't be so hard on him... He's done quite a job with this here tourney.

I realize they misunderstood the intent of it...I just didn't like it being pinned on me when nothing had been said about it until now. I'll change it, though.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Good match so far and I see it's half time now so http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=2713


This is what this thread is please click it

i know... i think almost everyone understood his points in the set-up post (with one or two exceptions) i mean seriously.... why would you think i'd take a character for it's armour if it only covered the arms???

it covers everything except 2 arms as the Kull only has 2 arms

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9041/kullwarrior28zf.jpg

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I realize they misunderstood the intent of it...I just didn't like it being pinned on me when nothing had been said about it until now. I'll change it, though.

lol... the "I blame Digi" comment was a joke.... sorry

All good The note's changed now too.

sorry about the absence tonight guys.. but I have to study for a test for tomorrow and it's going to take me too long to respond to that tonight... so I'll respond to it tomorrow night instead......

np.... um.... maybe we should try to reduce the length of our posts..... even i'm starting to look at them thinking "ffs, i can't be bothered reading all that"

lol You guys are doing good so far..I vote for both...

i vote for jinzin

this is revenge for killing JP... isn't it

Adamantium claws can't get in range of me without losing half the flesh + symbiote from the arms, chest, head, neck, body and legs, the symbiote can't extend to me without being sliced apart, his guns are useless against my armour, his photonic shield emitter can't be used as a weapon as my armour will absorb the energy from it, his sword will be destroyed by my sabres, to get within arms length he has to bring his full body well within my sabre's reach, my spider sense gives me a large advantage in combat, my impact webbing can momentarily entangle/incapacitate him and my plasma cannons are deadly at range or up close

i have a variety of advantages in this match and Jinzin's only hope is to get within range of all my weapons without getting the flesh and symbiote seared from his bones... this will be virtually impossible due to Grievous's skill with lightsabres and Scarlet's spider sense working in tandem

Originally posted by Scoobless
this is revenge for killing JP... isn't it

Adamantium claws can't get in range of me without losing half the flesh + symbiote from the arms, chest, head, neck, body and legs, the symbiote can't extend to me without being sliced apart, his guns are useless against my armour, his photonic shield emitter can't be used as a weapon as my armour will absorb the energy from it, his sword will be destroyed by my sabres, to get within arms length he has to bring his full body well within my sabre's reach, my spider sense gives me a large advantage in combat, my impact webbing can momentarily entangle/incapacitate him and my plasma cannons are deadly at range or up close

i have a variety of advantages in this match and Jinzin's only hope is to get within range of all my weapons without getting the flesh and symbiote seared from his bones... this will be virtually impossible due to Grievous's skill with lightsabres and Scarlet's spider sense working in tandem

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8164/scarletcyborgcomplete30af.jpg

i had forgotten about this, but Grievous also regularly carries a blaster... which further increases my long range firepower

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/7383/blz213nl.jpg

You've both done a great job of articulating your general advantages. I'd say it's close enough to come down to specific tactics and circumstances.
Since we've got a few more days, how about some play by play?

Originally posted by Laminator_X
how about some play by play?

starting off at distance i fire a continual barrage of plasma and laser blasts... both of which will be severely damaging to the symbiote and will cauterise, thus inhibiting any healing factor

if Jin chooses to remain at distance i can keep this up indefinitely... and he will eventually die

if he tries to close the distance i can keep moving away from him while continuing these ranged attacks

eventually i will allow him to come closer (after he's sustained significant damage)... i again have the advantage of reach (apart from symbiote tendrils.... which are easily cut ... further reducing the symbiote's mass and strength) and i can continue firing while drawing my lightsabers

lightsabers will cut through symbiote and flesh like air... they will slice chunks of flesh from TBK's bones, reducing his strength, speed and mobility, causing great pain and trauma

this will have a serious detrimental effect on TBK's health... and as he weakens i continue my assault, which will eventually result in his death

long range i can't be harmed, up close my spider sense and super speed combined will allow me to avoid any potentially damaging blows... and i can easily stay outside the reach of his claws while assaulting him with my sabres and blasters

with all these lightsabers, plasma cannons and laser blasters.... it's a bad day to be a heat sensitive symbiote

also, as soon as we enter the amusement park i start setting everything on fire using my plasma and lasers.... this will also help to weaken the symbiote.

I Vote for

okay.. I have a lot of catching up to do... so let me start out with this first...

I apologize to scoobless for his assessment on scarlet's spider sense... He was correct....(to some extent).

in spiderman 52 and 53.. his spider sense worked against venom... however.. along the way (sometime during the whole planet of the symbiotes crossover sagas) venom somehow adapted to that spider sense as well, and this was later evident during their next battle...

in either case.. scoobs here is making a huge thing out of his spider sense and it's value in this fight... even when scarlet spider WAS able to use his spider sense against venom it didn't stop venom from completely owning him during both of their initial fights, Scoobs countered this fact with the reasoning that it was okay for scarlet to get hit because he had never fought venom before, but by that same logic TBK will be getting an abundance of hits in due to the fact that Scarlet's "never fought him before"... not really a great argument if you ask me... ... bleh, in any case, spider only won the confrontation through a tricky... and admittedly..a lucky move.

The thing is... while scarlet spider couldn't avoid venom and his assault WITH his agility and speed, scoobless' amalgam fairs even worse...

I would once again like to address the fact that scarlet cyborg is using grevious' body.... grevious lacked both the speed and the agility to dodge gunfire... instead he opted to run away... scoobs tried to point out that doing so would be suicide without a force or spider sense... however this simply isn't the case with street level heroes, such as the one's we are using for this tournament.

for example: batman has dodged automatic gunfire from an entire swat team at close range, robin has dodged automatic gunfire from 20 assailants in an attempt to reach two face, storm shadow dodged gunfire from several platoons while carrying a man in an open field, snake eyes has dodged gunfire from an entire front line of cobra soldiers, firefly has dodged automatic gunfire from a firing line at close range, the ninja turtles dodged gunfire from 100 different swat members WHILE simultaniously fighting foot soldiers.

The list truly does go on and on and on... yet none of these characters have any force sense or spider sense to speak of... infact.. just from my short list of examples off the top of my head every character listed, with the exception of the turtles, are human in every aspect. Yet they were able to dodge gunfire, without subjecting themselves to a suicide mission... They did so using a few important factors.. experience, skill, agility, and reflexive speed. This only leads me to believe that grevious was lacking in something important here.. either agility, skill, reflexive speed, or all of the above. (btw scoobs, how you came to the conclusion that such reasoning only proves grevious is smarter than tbk is quite well beyond me... pointing out a flaw in your character is in no way a logical connection to my character's intelligence... ..)

Now back to the agility debate... we see grevious jump high.. yet jumping high is not a logical reason to believe that someone has agility. The Leaper jumps high, but he does not outclass a man like daredevil in terms of agility because he is not nimble... By that same notion, while grevious had a great running speed, running fast is also not an aspect of agility.. otherwise one could claim that quicksilver has the agility of spiderman.. Grevious was also able to climb, run up and down walls, because his claws could graple into the surface of what he was walking/running on much the same way wolverine has used his claws to pierce into a wall and climb up along it's side.. is wolverine then as agile as spiderman? I should think not... I've already disputed the switch from hands to feet, brazillian martial artists use the same type of tactic.. that however, does not make them agile like spiderman. The other example of his agility was the fact that he (grevious) took on multiple opponents and won, yet we see people taking on multiple oponents all the damned time in comic books. again lets look at some examples..

Batman beats his entire rogues gallery in 3 pages, sabretooth destroys an entire bar full of intergalactic mutant warriors in battle tide II, wolverine creams sabretooth, ogan, shingen, and deathstrike in 4 seconds... Are we to assume all these characters to be as agile as spiderman based on the fact that they've fought and beaten multiple opponents at once?
The simple fact of the matter is that grevious is super human in many aspects, he is fully capible of doing things that humans simple can not, but his abilities are not so outwordly when compared to other characters of the marvel/dc/etc universes.. Don't get me wrong, he certainly is an agile character, but his agility, has in no way given even the slightest amount of evidence as to being comparible with spiderman's. He has yet to prove himself in that regard and because this tournement is not conginent on the benefit of the doubt we must then come to the conclusion that due to his robotic body as a selection of mobility, scoobless' character suffers in terms of agility as there are no other feats to prove the opposite to be true...

This is bad for scoobless for a number of reasons, first off, the spider sense, though being a fasion of early warning system, needs an agile body comparible to spidrmans to be completely effective. Though the sense can warn the user of danger, it only does so most of the time fractions of a second (if that) before something happens.. this is why spiderman is barely able to contort out of the way of some things that are thrown at him. Contortion.... Contortion is a MAJOR part of spiderman's ability to dodge incoming dangers, it's literally how he's able to put the spider sense into action (At this point I'd like to point out the tangent that Venom has thrown wooden planks and steel girders at spiderman fast enough to make contact dispite spiderman's spider sense going off to the incoming danger). Grevious' body does not have the same ability of contortion that spiderman's does and he is a much bigger target to hit than spiderman is putting him at a comparible disadvantage. Thus, even though Scarlet Cyborg has a spider sense, he can not use it quite as well as spiderman or even scarlet spider himself would be able to. Scoobless argument for his spider sense allowing him to avoid all sorts of danger, is reliant on the fact that you the spectators overlook this particular flaw.

Scoobs is also trying to argue for his impact webbing when in truth.. Scarlet spider had to hit venom with multiple impact pallets, unloading "a whole bunch" of them on venom at once to even make an effect.. Hitting venom with just one or two had previously resulted in venom tearing right through the webbing as if it wasn't even there... So scarlet had to pour his impact webbing on venom.... Even so venom broke free completely...

Against TBK scarlet fever won't only have to secure multiple hits to make use of the impact webbing....(which due to heightened AND amalgamted speed, reflexes, senses, skill, and agility, will be near impossible to accomplish less TBK simply stands there and LETS the webbing hit him) ... but the webbing will have to have a MUCH stronger consistency to hold TBK for ANY amount of time... this is due to sabretooth's contribution of super strength and ferocity to the venom symbiote... First there is the fact that venom can break out of it (being completely cacooned by multiple pallets) alone, then add in the 10 ton strength factor and augment that by an adrenaline rush and the webbing is all but completely useless. In terms of cacooning TBK, virtually impossible...

Scoobless has "stingers", which are supposed to cause paralysis in their victims, and he is trying to argue that his stingers will do harm to TBK... but this as well, is yet another false hope... first off.. the stingers don't work on venom because they can not penetrate the symbiote. It was only AFTER scarlet has seperated brock from the symbiote, that he was able to use the stingers to any decent effect, even then brock continued to struggle due to the symbiote's healing factor... TBK not only has that same healing factor but another in sabretooth that put venom's to shame BEFORE it got augmented to the level it is now. Thus, even if scoobless got direct hits with the stingers on TBK in an instance where the symbiote was not covering the host, it wouldn't do any good. The stingers would have to be stronger than strong enough to down a T-Rex as was explained by deadpool when he attempted to capture wolverine. With the venom symbiote covering the host however, the stingers wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING whatsoever, not even cause the healing factors to stress.. If there is any doubt as to whether or not the stingers can effect a symbiote, I will say this... the symbiote has proven it's ability to simply discard lathal doses of poison by literally puking it out without missing a beat. Venom's symbiote has also fought off an accelerated (we're talking generation's worth of) cancer and discarded the disease. Pitiful little stingers are not about to do a damned thing.

FInally, Scoobless has been laying down some serious arguments for the durability of his armor... But scoobless, do you seriously expect me to believe that my katana can't cut right through your armor when it's been compared to kevlar? I mean the armor (while durable enough) is susptible to the piercing effeciency of friggin darts yet my katana can't cut through it even though TM put it halfway through a marble pillar WITHOUT super strength? puh-lease! I am not convinced in the slightest... As for your argument that my claws can't cut through it, or will be slowed down in the least. Once again, you are severly mistaken if you truly believe that. Wolverine uses his admantium claws to puncture and slash away at the friggin Hulk... Sabretooth is TIMES stronger than wolverine. Current Sabretooth even more so, as is Venom... TBK has enough physical strength to put those admantium claws through hulk like a hot knife through butter, yet you assume that your armor is going to save you whatsoever? HA.... No my friend... It most definitely will not...

As far as my amalgams abilites are concerned...

Venom has been said to have his own variation of the spider sense.. he proved it by using it to scope out drake around the time of the arachnis project, and again during his second confrontation with the jury, and again during the rumble that went down with the avengers in the vault... However due to the fact that spiderman has claimed that he doesn't have a spider sense (I'm not sure how spiderman would know... especially since he already made the claim several times previous to that, that venom had all of his powers), I will leave it up to the spectators to decide.

For taskmaster's x 2 speed.. It really doesn't matter one way or the other scoobless... If I want, I can argue that (since it's more likey that he's seen this rather than not) TBK can move in fast forward speed... how would you like that? I mean, there's simply no reason to assume that he's never seen a projection move in fastforward, it would be wishful thinking or ignorant to assume such to be true... in any case, the point remains, while my amalgam has "STACKED" speed making him far superior in reflexive and combative speeds than he was previously (and keep in mind, both characters were too fast for a spider sense as it was), your amalgam is reliant on one body to get the job done.. unfortunately, this is the same body that couldn't keep up with the speed of a single jedi knight (obi won) who was moving slow enough to register every movement.. While grevious may be super human in his speed nonetheless... he is however, suffering from the lack of power stacking in that regard and because of that, Scarlet Cyborg will find himself at a serious disadvantage... This holds especially true for an up-close confrontation.

Photographic Reflexes. Yes you are correct, I can not copy your movements using the reflexes, however, that was never my intention. I CAN however, pick up on the patterns of your movement's, timing, and reflexes of them, to work around them. The ironic thing is: That pic you posted... It's of the only person who's been able to flat out "outsmart" TM's reflexes in such a way. For everyone reading at home, that's agent-x... or....... deadpool, who (through his completely random nature, and illogical thought process) can completely bypass any resembalence of patterns. This is why Taskmaster (who trashed deadpool so badly the first time they met, not only didn't have one hit land on him but had deadpool convinced he wasn't even human) was later beaten by deadpool, who figured out Taskmaster's abilities due to the fact that TM was "teaching class" and blurting his powers blatently out. In the fight posted, agent-x (who didn't know he was deadpool...long story) subconciously remembered how to fight TM. Before that fight TM trashed X every time... During that fight however, not only did X have the whole no-pattern thing going for him, but TM was in an unstable emotional state because his girlfriend was bonin with our lil merc with a mouth over there... Scarlet Cyborg IS NOT aware of TBK's abilities (like deadpool was), Scarlet DOES NOT know he needs to fight illogically to beat the photographic reflexes, and Scarlet IS NOT bonin TBK's woman so he doesn't have any of the advantages over TBK that X had over TM... that pic is both null and void in relation to this fight.

Heightened senses. It is under your own assumption that the heightened senses that sabretooth has are of little use for the purposes of this fight... However, if you are to stick to your assumption you will find yourself simply and utterly wrong. For one thing, I've already displayed how my senses are of great use for this particular fight being as it's night time, I can use my senses of night vision, hearing, and smell, to pinpoint your location without have to get near you. This basically equates to you having absolutely no chance at doing anything of relative "stealth" without me being fully aware of it. Also, while you have to rely on your spider sense for the dark, I can simply see you, with and without the symbiote in pitch black, it puts me at a serious advantage (not to mention the lightsabers are a dead give-away ..). For instance, even though spiderman can use his spider sense to funtion fairly well in darkness for a fight, he was admittedly head and head with iron fist in a pitch black room in spite of his spider sense, and in spite of Iron Fist being "only human". TBK on the other hand has so many more physical advantages in terms of speed and strength etc, etc, it's not even funny, while Scarlet Cyborg still suffers from the lack of comparitive Spiderman agility resulting in a less effective spider sense, and can't make use of his spider sense against Venom anyways putting him a even greater risk.
TBK's heightened senses also allow for various advantages during general combat scenarios... In the recent weapon x novel, it was revealed that when Wolverine begins relying on his basic instincts and heightened senses even bullets appear to him as if they are in slow motion (which was shown to some degree in nex x-men when logan went to fight a bunch of terrorists). Sabretooth uses said natural gifts to a higher degree than wolverine, thus Scarlet's use of plasma blasts are going to have a relatively limited chance of making contact with their target. I as a viewer can register the laser blasts, but I can't register bullets... so if bullets appear as if in slow motion, imagine what these blasts would look like to a guy like The Big Kahuna.

My shields. You keep arguing that I only have one, and that it's too small to really be useful. Wrong. As I said before.. Taskmaster has displayed the ability to catch bullets... he can catch things that are faster than the human eye can register... he has used his gifted abilities to augment his speed to such great extents that spiderman couldn't "smash" him despite trying. Now taskmasters abilities are working in "tandem" with Sabretooth's physical mutations (bullet in slow-mo), using a sheild as protection you won't be hitting anything with plasma blasts or lasers of the sort. Not only this, but I can generate as many damned shields as I please using the symbiote to attach itself to the shields and forcing you into having to work around the multiple protective shields. I would only have one shield if I only generated one shield... seeing as you have four arms and several blasts coming at me I think myself to be smart enough to compensate. The revelation that I CAN use such tactics with my shields also, negates a good portion of your h2h arguments.. For instance, you can't sever flesh from my arms or harm my symbiote if I have shields covering them like a mech suit. And as previously mentioned, if you attempt to toss impact webbing my way I'll either right out dodge it, or I'll simply unleash the shield in your direction forcing you into fighting with your own impact webbing. My shields are completely useful for the purposes of this fight, and the more innovative and obscure my techniques, the more challenging it is for you to overcome them.
As for my symbiote shields.. they don't "burn easily" if that was the case venom would have got downed by the first five mace warriors he defended against. Using his will power he was able to provide safety for himself and another person at the same time, while taking oncoming laser fire from an entire military unit AFTER fending off most of their regiment. This however was a concious effort to keep a KOed woman safe, you don't have that kind of advantage here to weigh me down, and I can dodge the blasts rather than voluntarily take them as he did then. But due to the technique mentioned above I only have to resort to the symbiote sheilds if it's necessary... it won't be however.

Healing factors. You seem to think you can dictate how my healing factor will work... Sorry, I not only have an enhanced version of sabretooth's own healing factor, but I have the symbiotic healing factor working simultaniously with it. Venom's healing factor has allowed him to take laser blasts and assaults that go right through him and heal them without him needing to even slow down while fighting. Although lasers/plasma blasts going through human flesh do exactly what you said they do, they however, don't do that to the v-man. Venom's been shown to take multiple lazers and simply grimace at them, the symbiote healing factor heals penetrating and caurterizing wounds without any hinderance to the human form... with an accelerated healing factor working alongside it, TBK can take those blasts just fine... If TBK wasn't amalgamated with Venom your theories on how the sabres and plasma blasts etc would hold true to some extent... But even then, wolverine's entire skin/hide was eradicated from his muscles by a plasma explosion, his healing factor was not halted nor slowed down in the least, he's also had a plasma grenade implanted in his chest that also healed just fine after it exploded... Considering that sabretooth had a superior healing factor before the government augmented it, and that it's now in conjunction with the venom symbiotic healing properties, your expectations for how much damage you can actually cause me and the effects of that damage are nothing more than an false assessment, coupled with an overglorification of your own destructive capabilities.

Webbing. Yes you are correct, the webbing does run out... After using literally gallons and gallons and gallons of the stuff, my gallons of symbiotic webbing compared to a few cartradges of your amalgam is a slight bit overwhelming when comparing the two. My webbing however, is obviously more abundant, stronger than yours, and doesn't have to be replaced manually. These aspects give me several advantages in regards to the webbing itself...

Tendrils. You seem to be under the impression that you're in a fight with Venom from the late 80's or something... Venom has shown his ability to use TONS of symbiotic reconstruction without leaving his host body open to attack... the earliest examples occure after venom the madness. It was hinted that he retained some of his symbiotic altering powers as well as strength. Again, while fighting the mace warriors he was using vast amounts of extra symbiotic tendriling and shields without it leaving him (brock) open to attack. Currently, it's been proven even more so. Venom displayed the ability to do such during his battle with wolverine and again with "the twins" in venom: run. And in response to the technique which I mentioned before (sending 100 different tendrils out to latch onto various things and fling them at you), displayed in MK spidey 11, the symbiote did not leave it's host open for alternate attacks... Thus when I use this technique I will not be left open to attack. Furthermore, I WILL be protected by shields. And beyond that, I will be dodging or blocking basically anything you shoot my way.


In essense your argument is already under the suspicion of reaching to beat my character, as you are attacking the mind/character of my choices rather than acceptig the fact that I'm basically the mind you're up against... If we are to argue by limitations of character than I would like to address, one of your characters is an automaton, one's not a killer, and the other is considered to be a coward... Although I'm sure that in light of these points attacking my amalgams character doesn't quite sound like a great way to go... You can't even kill me going by character traits... Now you assumed yourself to have a greater tactical mind, but you don't... again, I have one character (venom) who's cunning enough to outsmart, trick, and make spiderman look foolish on a regular basis, another (TM) who has made a living out of being able to infiltrate high security headquarters and deal with seemingly overwhelming oponents using skill alone, (Iron man, captain marvel, avengers, and spidey himself) (every part of what he does implies the use of tactics) and another character that has had over a century of experience, and been trained by multiple national governement and military organizations. Where you think you have a superiority in tactics from ONE general (who by the way never displayed any use of overwhelming tactics, but rather overwhelming numbers..pffft ..) is another logical leap I don't quite follow... The core of your argument relies on you being able to do things that your character's feats can't back up while reducing the feats of my characters into something that's considerably less than what they've proven to do or take...

In terms of strategy.... first of I release a strand of symbiote into the main power supply of the park shutting off all the lights. While Scarlet has a spider sense, the ongoing sounds of the amusement park rides are going to be pretty damned distracting and disorienting... second, I branch off several different strands of symbiote under the ground and all around Scarlet to off-set his spider sense (this is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he actually had one of use here... cause I still fail to see how he does) finally I begin the "stick and yank approach" sending out 100 different tendrils, latching onto various objects and begins sailing them off into his direction... (Scoobless seems to think that despite my powers, augmentations, and abilities that due to his mulitple arms he's nearly guaranteed a hit with one of any of his 3 blasting weapons.. I wonder how Scarlet will fair attempting to dodge 100 things coming at him from 100 different directions..) Suffice it to say, I'm going to land this shit on it's target, regardless of lightsabers and spider sense. Once again... Venom has nailed parker with wooden planks and steel girders that he's thrown at him in broad day light. Venom has hit his mark on both occasions in spite of petey's spider sense... Sending 100 different projectiles at once is going to utterly destroy scarlet, especially if I keep piling it on, which I no doubt intend to. If he's thinking spider sense this and spider sense that blah blah blah... aside from venom's ability to launch things fast enough to hit spiderman regardless of the spider sense... i'd like to again bring up my argument against Scarlet's agility and simply call it into consideration.

Using this meathod, I don't have to get my hands dirty.. I'll simply bury Scarlet under tons and tons of rubble, amusment park coasters, planks, rides, machinery, etc etc... There's no reason this plan shouldn't work.. it doesn't take a large amount of time, it doesn't leave me open, and it puts Scarlet on the complete defensive with no way to succeed.

Is it a cheap way to win this fight? yes...
Is it something I'm capible of doing? hell yes...
is it still considered a victory? you bet your ass it is!

If it comes down to an upclose confrontation.. I generate as many shields as i can, while playing the dodging game (again.. it's night time, and by this points any lights in the area will already be down, so I'm not sure how Scarlet plans to locate me if I'm not in a state of threatening him (which again I call into question the use of ben's spider sense)... anywho, after generating the shields I'll secure them to my body like armor via symbiote. Then I'll simply go in for the kill and attack him with superior speed, agility, fighting ability, reflexes, and an overwhelming amount of tendrils... as I said before, he can't keep up with the tendrils and TBK at the same time.. they'll eventually catch up to him, and it will all be over....

as for setting the amusment park aflame... since when do star wars lazers and plasma blasts light things on fire?

(which I'd also like to call attention to the fact that venom isn't any NEAR as suseptable to flames as he used to be.. as was clearly displayed in the last match I had, when venom got hit with an exploding gas truck and responded by picking up an armored car and throwing it at spiderman while taunting him rather than appearing to be in any amount of danger or harm)....

okay... sorry about that guys (to everyone/anyone willing to read that mammoth amount of text) scoobs gave me a lot og homework to do over the past few days..


okay...now... let's look at some interesting facts.. such as sabretooth's ability to deal with spiderman and his spider sense.. and punisher...

.

I'd like to remind the people this is BEFORE sabretooth's augmentation in the weapon x series...

well that's how effective an EXPERIENCED spider man's spider sense is against a depowered version of the tooth...

now let's take a gander at how scarlet's spider sense helps him against venom...

well it certainly didn't seem to help him much there...

or there...

grrr... or there......

hmmm.. how about the 3rd time they threw down...?

yes.. scarlet spider's pider sense is doin him wonders against venom alright though in his defense by this time it's not really working where venom's conerned...

...speaks for itself...

so you see my friend scoobless.. the issue on whether or not scarlet's spider sense works on venom is practically irrelivant... what's important, is the fact that regardless of spider sense or no... venom works on scarlet spider...

just a quick example of what I mean when I talk about overwhelming Scarlet up close.. just image more tendrils and more shields.. as I did not draw them in so you can actually make out what's happeneing to some extent...

Well now, this convinced me. Before I was undecided but this . I vote for Jinzin.

great work, jin. you called down the thunder on the biggest hole in scoobs argument, imo -- that of his agility. based on what i saw in the movie, i would certainly say that, while quick and, um, er, well-articulated (??) he is no where near as 'agile' as some of the top-tier agility guys. i'm not a big fan of your strategy (piling things on him) but i have to admit it seems to be an effective method. he can hack a few of the things, maybe even dodge a couple, but he certainly WILL be hit by many, many things.

i'll be interested in seeing scoobs relpy. a problem with using a sw character is that there are not a lot of feats to draw on, while your more established characters have a much broader history. the same thing worked against lam in his fight with you.

i'll wait to hear scoob out, but at the moment, you are, er, burying him . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
great work, jin. you called down the thunder on the biggest hole in scoobs argument, imo -- that of his agility. based on what i saw in the movie......

......a problem with using a sw character is that there are not a lot of feats to draw on

again... i'm using the undamaged version of Grievous from the Clone Wars animated series... he showed much greater speed and agility than he did in the movie, which is set after he had been damaged

he appeared in quite a few episodes of Clone Wars, all of which showed him using speed and agility that would equal Spider-Man... and he can take more punishment too

Originally posted by jinzin
I would once again like to address the fact that scarlet cyborg is using grevious' body.... grevious lacked both the speed and the agility to dodge gunfire... instead he opted to run away... scoobs tried to point out that doing so would be suicide without a force or spider sense...


which it would be

running away is the smart option when faced with a barrage of lasers, Spider-Man, when he gets his spider sense knocked out by Goblin Gas, gets hit by EVERYONE... it isn't a question of speed if you don't know the attack is coming... and even when you do know... you can't dodge a laser after it's been fired... spider sense lets the user know when and where to move to avoid/block an attack

Originally posted by jinzin
for example: batman has dodged automatic gunfire from an entire swat team at close range, robin has dodged automatic gunfire from 20 assailants in an attempt to reach two face, storm shadow dodged gunfire from several platoons while carrying a man in an open field, snake eyes has dodged gunfire from an entire front line of cobra soldiers, firefly has dodged automatic gunfire from a firing line at close range, the ninja turtles dodged gunfire from 100 different swat members WHILE simultaniously fighting foot soldiers.

most of that sounds completely ludicrous and utterly beside the point... with no reason to stay there and see if he's lucky enough to avoid a fatal laser blast, why would a smart tactician hang around? the point here is that Scarlet Spider + Spider-Man have done way more than that, and more frequently... now that Grievous's abilities include their abilities, there's no reason that he couldn't avoid anything you throw at him

Originally posted by jinzin
Now back to the agility debate... we see grevious jump high.. yet jumping high is not a logical reason to believe that someone has agility. The Leaper jumps high, but he does not outclass a man like daredevil in terms of agility because he is not nimble... By that same notion, while grevious had a great running speed, running fast is also not an aspect of agility.. otherwise one could claim that quicksilver has the agility of spiderman.. Grevious was also able to climb, run up and down walls, because his claws could graple into the surface of what he was walking/running on much the same way wolverine has used his claws to pierce into a wall and climb up along it's side.. is wolverine then as agile as spiderman? I should think not... I've already disputed the switch from hands to feet, brazillian martial artists use the same type of tactic.. that however, does not make them agile like spiderman.

if it were a case of any single one of those abilities you may have a point... but when he has them all? with running, jumping, climbing, hand/foot switching, fighting, martial arts training and near perfect balance..... what exactly is he lacking in the agility department?

Originally posted by jinzin
The simple fact of the matter is that grevious is super human in many aspects, he is fully capible of doing things that humans simple can not

i know

Originally posted by jinzin
Scoobs is also trying to argue for his impact webbing when in truth.. Scarlet spider had to hit venom with multiple impact pallets, unloading "a whole bunch" of them on venom at once to even make an effect.. Hitting venom with just one or two had previously resulted in venom tearing right through the webbing as if it wasn't even there... So scarlet had to pour his impact webbing on venom.... Even so venom broke free completely...

AFTER a good few moments... enough for Scarlet to sit around and wonder about what to do next..... now that i have the experience of that fight i can wait until an opportunity comes up where i'm at such a range where you are an unmissable target

the minute or so that it takes you to break free is far more time than i'll need to finish you

Originally posted by jinzin
Scoobless has "stingers", which are supposed to cause paralysis in their victims

and they do... but i'm not really playing them up in this fight too much because of the healing factors.... though if your symbiote leaves you uncovered for a moment they will still slow you down for a few seconds at a time

Originally posted by jinzin
do you seriously expect me to believe that my katana can't cut right through your armor

yes, it's alien tech that was only ever pierced by an extremely strong, needle point weapon.... because anything with a greater surface area can't get through

don't worry though.... your sword will be wrecked by my lightsabres before you ever get the chance to test that

Originally posted by jinzin
As for your argument that my claws can't cut through it, or will be slowed down in the least.

claws are like bullets, the surface area is too large.... this isn't a one-piece armour, it's futuristic alien fibre weave that's stopped everything larger than a needle... Stargate tech includes metal that is near adamantium... it's not a question of the strength of the material being used, it's the surface area... so while the extreme tips of your claws may get through, it'll only be enough to scratch the surface of the outermost part of my cyborg body

Originally posted by jinzin
completely bypass any resembalence of patterns. This is why Taskmaster was later beaten

and a spider sense takes away the aspect of patterns.... as it reacts to everything you're doing i don't need to move in patterns... or even watch yours.... i'll simply know which direction the attacks will be coming from... and with four sabers i can easily block and attack at the same time

Originally posted by jinzin
I can use my senses of night vision, hearing, and smell, to pinpoint your location without have to get near you

or you could just look for the glowing lightsaber... i'm not hiding... ... but watch out for all those fires i lit.... they could get you in trouble

Originally posted by jinzin
I can simply see you, with and without the symbiote in pitch black

it's dusk, not pitch black... and all the lights from the rides are on.... plus I lit a whole bunch of fires

Originally posted by jinzin
I as a viewer can register the laser blasts, but I can't register bullets

lol.... that's just for TV ... you think kids would think lasers were cool if they couldn't see the blasts travelling?

Originally posted by jinzin
As I said before.. Taskmaster has displayed the ability to catch bullets

a single bullet on a single occasion... and only when he had full view of the gun and hand that were firing at him... he could see her clench fingers to fire... he knew that shot was coming well in advance of it being fired... lasers travel much, much, much faster than bullets

and if he was really faster than bullets he'd have either moved out of the way or raised his shield

Originally posted by jinzin
using a sheild as protection you won't be hitting anything with plasma blasts or lasers of the sort.

you can cover an entire 6'5 foot (or so) man with a shield that's about 1'5 feet in diameter?

Originally posted by jinzin
I can generate as many damned shields as I please using the symbiote to attach itself to the shields

see... now i just don't believe you on this

Originally posted by jinzin
I As for my symbiote shields.. they don't "burn easily"

fire has, on many, many occasions, been shown to seriously damage the symbiote.... plasma is like that... but much hotter and coming at him much faster

Originally posted by jinzin
Sorry, I not only have an enhanced version of sabretooth's own healing factor

limited before the tourney started... so not quite

Originally posted by jinzin
Venom's healing factor has allowed him to take laser blasts and assaults that go right through him and heal them without him needing to even slow down while fighting

also limited before the tourney started... and you have no way of proving that one healing factor will improve the other... in fact t it's entirely possible that they'll work against each other... like a body rejecting alien organs

Originally posted by jinzin
lasers/plasma blasts going through human flesh do exactly what you said they do



Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine's entire skin/hide was eradicated from his muscles by a plasma explosion, his healing factor was not halted nor slowed down in the least,

total PIS. i've seen Wolverine struggle to heal from getting his stomach sliced open

Originally posted by jinzin
wolverine's ............ Considering that sabretooth had a superior healing factor before the government augmented it

completely irrelevant... there's a tourney cap on healing factors and you know it



Originally posted by jinzin
I will be dodging or blocking basically anything you shoot my way.

you mean you'll be trying to dodge/block... i'm not in danger of running out of ammo and not limited to a single line of fire at a time

Originally posted by jinzin
I begin the "stick and yank approach" sending out 100 different tendrils, latching onto various objects and begins sailing them off into his direction... (Scoobless seems to think that despite my powers, augmentations, and abilities that due to his mulitple arms he's nearly guaranteed a hit with one of any of his 3 blasting weapons

actually he thinks using his super speed, agility and spider sense it wont be hard to get out of the way .... Jin seems to believe that i'm just going to be standing around waiting to get stuff thrown at me



Originally posted by jinzin
again.. it's night time, and by this points any lights in the area will already be down, so I'm not sure how Scarlet plans to locate me if I'm not in a state of threatening him

"Cybernetically Enhanced Eyes: Although Grievous has his natural Kaleesh eyes instead of photoreceptors, these are enhanced, allowing him to see in the dark (+2D to search in darkness), and including macrobinocular features."
http://rpggamer.org/print.php?page=d6/d6generalgrievous.html

"Sallow and reptilian, General Grievous's own eyes have been enhanced with cybernetic implants."
http://blogs.starwars.com/jeditee/40



Originally posted by jinzin
as for setting the amusment park aflame... since when do star wars lazers and plasma blasts light things on fire?

they're heat based and i have the experience of Parker/Reilly ... i'm a semi-genius physicist... it wont be hard to light things on fire

Originally posted by jinzin
I'd also like to call attention to the fact that venom isn't any NEAR as suseptable to flames as he used to be

but he is still weakened by them... so it's all still useful

I really hope writing all that gave you cramp.... lol

none of it changes the fact that at distance i have you completely out-gunned and up-close my sabers slice through every part of you that isn't adamantium... which includes your symbiote

I negated your night-vision advantage with my own... so no help for you there

you simply can't physically touch me without being in range of ALL of my weapons.... my long range weapons will blow holes in you and my close up weapons will tear strips off of you

with your healing factors limited to tourney specs you can't recover from having muscles sliced off before the end of the match... a laser blast through the heart or plasma blasts to the stomach area finish this quickly from a distance

my spider sense will let me know your general direction long before we come into line of sight of each other and my night-vision/macrobinoculars will allow me to aim perfectly from a distance before you know where i am

by the time you know that i've spotted you, your intestines will have been vaporised and i'll still be firing

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Well now, this convinced me. Before I was undecided but this....

hopefully you're still open to logic

Great, great matchup and I've watched for many days to decide who I would vote for, jinzin and scoob have VERY potent characters with a taste of versatility, familiarity, AND popularity.

While I like scoob's immunity to the symbiosis, jinzin has the greater durability.

While I like jinzin's toughness and endurance, I like scoobless' attack advantages and his ability to simply stay out of the way.

I'm voting scoobless, for now.

<<again... i'm using the undamaged version of Grievous from the Clone Wars animated series... he showed much greater speed and agility than he did in the movie, which is set after he had been damaged

he appeared in quite a few episodes of Clone Wars, all of which showed him using speed and agility that would equal Spider-Man... and he can take more punishment too>>

hmm, i wonder if that in itself may be an issue scoob. we (or I at any rate) can SEE jin's feats and they can be coroborated with scans -- we've only your word regarding your amalgam's abilities based on a tv show i've never seen. (btw, 'pologies i didn't catch that earlier. i'm sure you were saying -- what a dumbass -- can't he read! i read quickly in fact, to try and catch up and hit the high points!)

i'm also still unclear how you plan to avoid the 100 tendril-thing.

<<actually he thinks using his super speed, agility and spider sense it wont be hard to get out of the way .... Jin seems to believe that i'm just going to be standing around waiting to get stuff thrown at me>>

this doesn't seem to be an adequate answer to me. by casting the tendrils below ground and from so many directions, your amalgam's spidey sense will be neutralized -- or at least useless in that you won't know WHERE the danger is coming from because it will be coming from everywhere. even if you are 'ready to move anywhere', by the time things start flying your way, it will be too late. i need to know how you plan to avoid this trap before i decide upon whom to vote for in this.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm also still unclear how you plan to avoid the 100 tendril-thing.

<<actually he thinks using his super speed, agility and spider sense it wont be hard to get out of the way .... Jin seems to believe that i'm just going to be standing around waiting to get stuff thrown at me>>

this doesn't seem to be an adequate answer to me. by casting the tendrils below ground and from so many directions, your amalgam's spidey sense will be neutralized -- or at least useless in that you won't know WHERE the danger is coming from because it will be coming from everywhere. even if you are 'ready to move anywhere', by the time things start flying your way, it will be too late. i need to know how you plan to avoid this trap before i decide upon whom to vote for in this.

ok... before he knows where i am he can't extend tendrils in my direction, and my spider sense will still let me know what direction he's in even before he extends any tendrils:

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5349/spidersense10bp.th.jpg

with this knowledge and using my night-vision + macrobinoculars (MBs) i'll spot him long before he spots me

the MBs will allow me to aim perfectly over long range in darkness (as lasers travel along perfect line of sight)... using this tactic for my first move, i'll be able to hit him with a full power blast before he knows where to look... i'll also be firing plasma blasts a split second before the laser (as it doesn't travel quite as fast as light) so they arrive at almost exactly the same time causing maximum damage.... one shot to the face and multiple shots to the stomach region


all this plus grievous's foot speed is much greater than Spider-Man's.... so if something were to be hurled i'd easily be able to out-distance/sidestep it

hmmm . . .shifty

damn right "hmmm....."

hmm

Well that's interesting. . . I think I'm going to have to go with Jinzin on this one. . .

How far will the symbiote enhance Sabretooth's healing factor?

Lemme get my vote in before I have to go. I hope you both know you made it a pain in the balls trying to pick who I thought would win. Seriously, to me you both seem very even. Still, all told... I'm voting for Scoob. Working Spidey sense plus large number of weapons (and the ability to use several simultaneously) is what finally convinced me, and even then only by a tiny margin when weighed against the healing factor(s). He's basically an insanely agile tank (rassum frassum Kull armor), and that's what gives him my vote.

It seems everyone has a problem with Clone-Wars Grevious . Luckily enough i have clips of him for those who haven't seen him. (note these clips are in the form of a music video so bear with me)

http://media.putfile.com/Set-Me-Free

Originally posted by Scoobless
again... i'm using the undamaged version of Grievous from the Clone Wars animated series... he showed much greater speed and agility than he did in the movie, which is set after he had been damaged

he appeared in quite a few episodes of Clone Wars, all of which showed him using speed and agility that would equal Spider-Man... and he can take more punishment too

correction he was shown in quite a few episodes of clone wars (3) showing him to use quite a bit of speed and agility... but nothing that comes close to that which spiderman has displayed....

Originally posted by jinzin
correction he was shown in quite a few episodes of clone wars (3) showing him to use quite a bit of speed and agility... but nothing that comes close to that which spiderman has displayed....

Look at the video and ye-shall see the displays of speed.

--Originally posted by Scoobless
which it would be

running away is the smart option when faced with a barrage of lasers, Spider-Man, when he gets his spider sense knocked out by Goblin Gas, gets hit by EVERYONE... it isn't a question of speed if you don't know the attack is coming... and even when you do know... you can't dodge a laser after it's been fired... spider sense lets the user know when and where to move to avoid/block an attack


wolverine dodges lazer fire... spiderman 2099 was shown to dodge lazer fire (a spider-senseless spider man) again... those initial blasts were able to be registeres by the human eye, yet grevious had to book ass.. I gave a plethora of HUMAN examples of people who've dodged much faster incoming projectiles than that... they do it with expirience, skill, speed, and agility... grevious must have lacked in one or more of those areas...


--Originally posted by Scoobless
most of that sounds completely ludicrous and utterly beside the point... with no reason to stay there and see if he's lucky enough to avoid a fatal laser blast, why would a smart tactician hang around? the point here is that Scarlet Spider + Spider-Man have done way more than that, and more frequently... now that Grievous's abilities include their abilities, there's no reason that he couldn't avoid anything you throw at him

It's not ludicrous (in terms of comic books), it's what happens in comics on a daily basis... it's not my fault that you can't cope with that... Nor is it besides the point. They are specific examples that prove that one does not need to have a spider sense or force sense to dodge incoming fire which was the basis of that particular argument... The fact of the matter is that grevious had his chance to prove what he could do during clone wars and he only proved himself capible enough to run away from gun-fire... He however NEVER proved himself as agile as spiderman, or as skilled as the human characters I previously mentioned. Yes spiderman and scarlet spider HAVE done way more than that.. because they have nimble bodies... THE POINT WAS Grevious IS NOT as agile as spiderman or scarlet spider have ever been. Their feats of agility and acrobatics, or the nimble use of their bodies while their spider sense is going off has put anything grevious has done to shame... Even still, venom gets hits on spiderman WITH a spider sense.. He also hits spiderman with thrown projectiles... If grevious has less agility with more mass...well......


--Originally posted by Scoobless
if it were a case of any single one of those abilities you may have a point... but when he has them all? with running, jumping, climbing, hand/foot switching, fighting, martial arts training and near perfect balance..... what exactly is he lacking in the agility department?


I've already pointed out what he's lacking in the agility department haven't you been following along?... the ability to be nimble, and the ability of contortionism (like spiderman's). He's at a serious disadvantage in those cases... It doesn't bode well for his character.

--Originally posted by Scoobless
AFTER a good few moments... enough for Scarlet to sit around and wonder about what to do next..... now that i have the experience of that fight i can wait until an opportunity comes up where i'm at such a range where you are an unmissable target

the minute or so that it takes you to break free is far more time than i'll need to finish you


again.. what makes you think you'll be hitting me with a plethora of impact webbing much less one? even so... I've already layed dwn the reasonable argument that my character is much stronger than venom... your webbing didn' get stronger however. It didn't become an amalgamated version of itself... You pathetic webbing simply won't work on me... and that's if I LET YOU COVER ME with the stuff which is basically what venom did, him being so cocky and such... doesn't change the fact that he got out pretty quickly then, and I'd get out even faster now...

Also it's funny how you neglected the fact that, venom trying to rip out of the webbing, using brute strength alone, was CIS on his part... You don't have that particular advantage against me. I'll be using a combination of brute strength, adamantium claws, and the inginuity of my symbiote of rip and shred the webbing apart as soon as it comes near me if I need to... IF I need to, not when.

--Originally posted by Scoobless
and they do... but i'm not really playing them up in this fight too much because of the healing factors.... though if your symbiote leaves you uncovered for a moment they will still slow you down for a few seconds at a time

Again, unless those stingers are packing enough "juice" in them to bring down a t-rex (that's the giant friggin dinosaur in case you were wondering), those things won't be slowing down shit... and that's IF I'm open to attack, which I still see no reason why I would be..... You're basing your assumption of their effect off of what they'll do to a human being, even tough they've been proven ineffective against lizard, and didn't dso anything to brock but make him angry....

--Originally posted by Scoobless
yes, it's alien tech that was only ever pierced by an extremely strong, needle point weapon.... because anything with a greater surface area can't get through

don't worry though.... your sword will be wrecked by my lightsabres before you ever get the chance to test that

A katana blade backed by 25 tons of strength, and the swordsman's skill is going to put my sword through your head, body, and arms like a straw through a lightpole in a hurricane... lol... I'm seriously still not convinced... If the peircing efficiency of a dart can get through, I certainly can...


--Originally posted by Scoobless
claws are like bullets, the surface area is too large.... this isn't a one-piece armour, it's futuristic alien fibre weave that's stopped everything larger than a needle... Stargate tech includes metal that is near adamantium... it's not a question of the strength of the material being used, it's the surface area... so while the extreme tips of your claws may get through, it'll only be enough to scratch the surface of the outermost part of my cyborg body

so you're seriously arguing that you're more durable than hulk?...............




















that's barely worth responding to.... yes I'm getting through with my claws like a hot knife through butter, and no your armor won't do a damned thing about it, end of story....

Originally posted by grey fox
Look at the video and ye-shall see the displays of speed.

which STILL isn't as impressive as those of spiderman...

Ah, the glory that is Adamantium.

--Originally posted by Scoobless
and a spider sense takes away the aspect of patterns.... as it reacts to everything you're doing i don't need to move in patterns... or even watch yours.... i'll simply know which direction the attacks will be coming from... and with four sabers i can easily block and attack at the same time

you'll be moving in patterns to avoid a blow, you'll move in patterns to connect with one.. If that wasn't the case, as your trying to make it out to be, TM wouldn't have given spiderman such a difficult time when they initially threw down, but he did... stop overglorifying yourself into being something your not... Even with four lightsabers, you're going to have a hell of a time dealing with TBK AND 100+ tendrils up close... if it ever came to that...
--Originally posted by Scoobless
or you could just look for the glowing lightsaber... i'm not hiding... ... but watch out for all those fires i lit.... they could get you in trouble

first off, I'm no where near suseptible to flame as Venom used to be, second off, sabretooth's healing factor, makes that even moreso, and third, you didn't light any damned fires with your blasters. They don't do that....

--Originally posted by Scoobless
it's dusk, not pitch black... and all the lights from the rides are on.... plus I lit a whole bunch of fires

it's dark, I killed off all the lights forcing you into being reliant on your spider sense, and you didn't set any fires.... explain to me how you did... I've never seen those blasts or sabers light ANYTHING on fire before, so please feel free to explain this one.


Originally posted by Scoobless
lol.... that's just for TV ... you think kids would think lasers were cool if they couldn't see the blasts travelling?

well the character you're using is a TV character.. you're limited to his feats... sorry if you don't like it...



--Originally posted by Scoobless
a single bullet on a single occasion... and only when he had full view of the gun and hand that were firing at him... he could see her clench fingers to fire... he knew that shot was coming well in advance of it being fired... lasers travel much, much, much faster than bullets
with the amalgamation of my character, and hieghtened senses and reflexes of both venom and the tooth, I only need the ability, which I suppose is another point you missed... in any case, those lasers don't travel faster than bullets... not when I (a simple human being) can see them.

--Originally posted by Scoobless
and if he was really faster than bullets he'd have either moved out of the way or raised his shield.
he was exhausted, wounded, just did his times two speed technique that maxed out his HUMAN body, and had been tortured the night previous to that fight (with a hammer...ewwww) to the point where his assailants thought they had killed him... Again... the advantages the bad guys had in that instance... You DON'T have here...

---Originally posted by Scoobless
you can cover an entire 6'5 foot (or so) man with a shield that's about 1'5 feet in diameter?
what part of.. I CAN GERNERATE MULTIPLE SHIELDS.... are you not understanding? Honestly, it's not that hard of a concept to grasp.....
Is it?


Originally posted by Scoobless
see... now i just don't believe you on this

Why not, TM's displayed the ability to make a few shields in one fight, he just tosses them away as he makes them, along side that he'll make webbing, and even produces an energy "bitchslap" which he used to hit everyone in a room at once... there's no reason I couldn't make multiple energy shields....



Originally posted by Scoobless
fire has, on many, many occasions, been shown to seriously damage the symbiote.... plasma is like that... but much hotter and coming at him much faster

not in any recent one's.... why don't you believe me? I've already posted proof....

Originally posted by long pig
Ah, the glory that is Adamantium.

indeed..



see... long pig understand it.... why can't you?

Originally posted by Scoobless
limited before the tourney started... so not quite

actually I do... even going by the rules the regular version of the healing factor coupled with the symbiotic one, would suffice with GREAT results...
If you want to go by the rule's however, there are two stated that cause you to lose this fight right out... first off, you can't "dodge everything", as the greatest percentage of you doing so is 7 out of 10.... I unleash my stick and yank technique on you, and I only need one large piece of metal or whatnot to smac you with to get you off kilter, then you get buried underneath tons and tons of the stuff....
The second rule limits the durability of your armor, making it nowhere near what you're making it out to be...



--Originally posted by Scoobless
also limited before the tourney started... and you have no way of proving that one healing factor will improve the other... in fact t it's entirely possible that they'll work against each other... like a body rejecting alien organs

actually feats dictate otherwise... the venom symbiote actually WANTED to amalgamate itself with wolerine for exactly that reason.... sorry to say scoobs but your theories on the matter, once again... simply don't work...



--Originally posted by Scoobless
total PIS. i've seen Wolverine struggle to heal from getting his stomach sliced open
first off, so have I... When he was drugged at least... Second off, you missed the point.. The point was that plasma blasts don't effect the healing factor as you'd like them to. It's been proven....



--Originally posted by Scoobless
completely irrelevant... there's a tourney cap on healing factors and you know it

the same sort of cap like there is on dodging and armor durability?


--Originally posted by Scoobless
you mean you'll be trying to dodge/block... i'm not in danger of running out of ammo and not limited to a single line of fire at a time

There's no reason why I can't dodge and black a few blasts coming at me, when even sabretooth has dodged out of the way of automatic gunfire... You may not be limited to a single line of fire... but I'm certainly not limited to a single appendage to block with thanks to that handy symbiote of mine...

Originally posted by Scoobless
actually he thinks using his super speed, agility and spider sense it wont be hard to get out of the way .... Jin seems to believe that i'm just going to be standing around waiting to get stuff thrown at me


Dude... ONE plank... ONE steel girder.. Was all venom needed to smack spidey with an arial projectile... Just one... Spider Man's spider sense didnt do him any good there.. yet you seem to be under the impression that I can't hit you with a hundred? wow......that's just..... wow....
in any case... my stick and yank technique is an area effective attack.. there would be no where to run To in terms of getting out of the way... so I yet again, fail to see how your avoiding it....


Originally posted by Scoobless
"Cybernetically Enhanced Eyes: Although Grievous has his natural Kaleesh eyes instead of photoreceptors, these are enhanced, allowing him to see in the dark (+2D to search in darkness), and including macrobinocular features."
http://rpggamer.org/print.php?page=...algrievous.html

"Sallow and reptilian, General Grievous's own eyes have been enhanced with cybernetic implants."
http://blogs.starwars.com/jeditee/40

interesting... though it is a small matter.. I can alter to color of my symbiote to match my surroundings like a lizard might...


Originally posted by Scoobless
they're heat based and i have the experience of Parker/Reilly ... i'm a semi-genius physicist... it wont be hard to light things on fire

it will when I'm tossing tons and tons of amusment park equiptment at you..
Originally posted by Scoobless
but he is still weakened by them... so it's all still useful
not unless you have an abundance of it... (more than a gas truck)...

hell even before recently it wasn't uncommon for venom to fight foes in an inferno... (ie. drake... after he beat the crap out of spiderman, and the jury...)

What did you think of the vid Jinzin , i made it myself .

Originally posted by Scoobless
"none of it changes the fact that at distance i have you completely out-gunned and up-close my sabers slice through every part of you that isn't adamantium... which includes your symbiote"
outgunned? hardly... I have 100 or more tendrils flinging tons of things in your direction... it doesn't take finess on my part where as you actually have to try hard and be precise just to hit me.. on top of that it's going to take a lot of firepower to do any significant damage while I only need to make contact with one steel girder etc etc to secure the overall advantage... up close... they are not slicing through my shields.. which in case you don't remember, are going to be covering me like armor, if I chose to fight you up close.... with my vast assortment of symbiotic attacks, coupled with my webbing, and TBK himself, you seriously won't be a problem up close.. I'm not impressed by your ability to "spin really fast" Obi Wan certainly wasn't...

Originally posted by Scoobless
"I negated your night-vision advantage with my own... so no help for you there"
perhaps not.. but once again, my symbiote adapting to the colors of the environment will be...

Originally posted by Scoobless
"you simply can't physically touch me without being in range of ALL of my weapons.... my long range weapons will blow holes in you and my close up weapons will tear strips off of you"
long range weapons won't touch me or get past my shields... up close I overwhelm you with tendrils.... at a distance i overwhelm you with amusement park... and remember I don'tneed to physically touch you to assualt you with amusement park...

Originally posted by Scoobless
"with your healing factors limited to tourney specs you can't recover from having muscles sliced off before the end of the match... a laser blast through the heart or plasma blasts to the stomach area finish this quickly from a distance"
ribs protect heart, and you have a lot of securities to bypass to hit my stomach... I have two healing factors... even by tourny limits.. AFTER amalgamation they still augment one another and you still can't do significant damage to me over lasting periods of time... again.. I already said I'd be shielding myself if we get up close.. slicing off my flesh won't be an option... trying, will leave you open to 70 or so of my tendrils... you're simply going to be overwhelmed in this fight, one way or the other...

Originally posted by Scoobless
"my spider sense will let me know your general direction long before we come into line of sight of each other and my night-vision/macrobinoculars will allow me to aim perfectly from a distance before you know where i am"

enhanced senses let me know exactly where you are before you even get withing a mile of my vecinity...spider sense doesn't pinpoint direction from a distance like that.. by the time you get close enough to be in range with those blasters it will already be too late...

Originally posted by Scoobless
"by the time you know that i've spotted you, your intestines will have been vaporised and i'll still be firing "

obviously that's not the case as I've just pointed out.... not to mention my hearing puts me a split second behind spider man in terms of being alert to oncoming danger.. and that's IF my symbiote doesn't alert me to it first....

Originally posted by grey fox
What did you think of the vid Jinzin , i made it myself .

pretty good video... I might have picked another song though...

stabbing westword's "I won't become the thing I hate" would have kicked ass and been in total relation to the story itself...

but it was pretty cool nonetheless... good job man...

EEGAK... I'm beginning to think scoobs was on to smething with this posting less theory of his though....


what do ya say scoobs.. when monday starts up, I won't have the time to reply to this stuff like I did this weekend...

Originally posted by Scoobless
ok... before he knows where i am he can't extend tendrils in my direction, and my spider sense will still let me know what direction he's in even before he extends any tendrils:

which would be true if spiderman's spider sense worked that way on a more consistent basis... but given feats well......

again.. it's been proven that ben's spider sense doesn't work on venom anyways.. I still don't see why we're on the subject....


Originally posted by Scoobless
with this knowledge and using my night-vision + macrobinoculars (MBs) i'll spot him long before he spots me
with my senses.. I scope you out WAAAAY before you do me, and using my symbiote to adapt to the environment.. I'll be harder to find...

Originally posted by Scoobless
the MBs will allow me to aim perfectly over long range in darkness (as lasers travel along perfect line of sight)... using this tactic for my first move, i'll be able to hit him with a full power blast before he knows where to look... i'll also be firing plasma blasts a split second before the laser (as it doesn't travel quite as fast as light) so they arrive at almost exactly the same time causing maximum damage.... one shot to the face and multiple shots to the stomach region

which assumes that I'm standing out in the open, where scoobs has a direct line of sight not interfered with any of the amusment park facilities, rides, buildings, etc etc, just waiting to take a hit...


Originally posted by Scoobless
all this plus grievous's foot speed is much greater than Spider-Man's.... so if something were to be hurled i'd easily be able to out-distance/sidestep it

not "something" but 100 things.. and then 100 more things.. and then 100 more things.... besides.. If my symbiotes under the ground, it simply comes up and latches to your feat... I'm assuming you read marvel vs. dc... what venom did to quicksilver and flash... same CONCEPT applies here... of course I seriously doubt you can out distance or side step an area effective attack like the one I'm using in the first place.. but that's just me......

Thanks man *Thumbs up*

dude now that I think about it.. you should totally make a star wars music vidoe using that song i previously mentioned.. for anikan.. it would totally kick ass!

Originally posted by long pig
How far will the symbiote enhance Sabretooth's healing factor?

quite a bit.. infact it pretty much negates the effects that were assumed and implied by most people from things like plasma blasts and lightsabers.. allowing it to work just as fine as it always has with no hinderence to it whatsoever... a healing factor which has already been proven to work better than wolverine's.

Originally posted by jinzin
dude now that I think about it.. you should totally make a star wars music vidoe using that song i previously mentioned.. for anikan.. it would totally kick ass!

Slight problem , i lost my skills . One day i woke up and BAM , i couldn't make em anymore (Plus i only have a few clips) . But i shall look for the song and see if i can get some inspiration.

I'm voting Scoob.
He has four lightsabres is very agile can detect any attack you make can block your claws while still attacking with two.
Your symbiote will be toast because it is hurt by fire and sonics.

last question -- jin, what it the range of your tendrils and how quick are they? i'll even buy for the moment scoob might scope you out somehow, but if you're far enough away, hidden as you say, and the tendril can surround him BEFORE he can reach/find you, i still don't see how he gets out of the trap without being pummelled?

at the moment my vote is jin, unless something about yourreply really makes me reassess what is happening.

http://media.putfile.com/Set-Me-Free

love it... shame you didn't get in clips of the later fights... or of him using all his arms/sabers at once

it helps me a lot cos i don't know how to make those and people want to see evidenceof the character i'm using.... so tx

thumbsup

and i'm sure the symbiote camouflage thing would fall under the "no invisibility rule" for the tourney

Originally posted by long pig
How far will the symbiote enhance Sabretooth's healing factor?

Symbiotes have to supress the natural healing abilities of their host or they will be rejected

so it could very well have a detrimental affect overall

I also vote for Digi

i vote jinzin

I vote for jinzin

Kauna wins.
Symbiotes durability and boosted healing plus current Sabretooth regenerative abilities and durability means Kahuna is unstoppable for somone like Scarlett Cyborg.
Now add in Creed's massive fighting experience and skills, those of Taskmaster and the versatility of the symbiote, which can create hand to hand weapons with the substance it's made of, SC got no chance.
No sonic weapons, no weapons which emit sufficient heat to knock unconscious or dead Kahuna.
When Venom faced the Sin Eater, he took a LAV Rocket in front of his face and was still there for the fight.Light sabers are lasers, they aren't going to work well on the symbiote, plus the Spider Sense is useless on Venom, that gave him speed advantage, especially with Creed's abilities boosted by the simbiote.
And wanna talk about Taskmaster's usual weapons replicated by the symbiote?Kahuna will fight Carnage style, only with different weapons, see shields, swords, firing spikes and arrows, and also use the camoufage if he need to sneak up on SC.
Jinzin has made a helluva fighter.

Changing my vote to Jin thought about it some more and reread the thread and now I think Jin's tactic is better.

Is that allowed ?

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Is that allowed ? Yes it is.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes it is.