Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I am thinking Maul but feel open to debate it.

I voted for Maul. I dunno, just heard people saying Asajj could beat Depa and I think Maul could beat Asajj. And Mace, who was still recovering from bad injuries, could have beat depa by quite a bit in Shatterpoint had he wanted to. I think Maul could challenge Mace if Mace was still recovering from broken bones and other stuff.

Maul vs. Vendress is a draw by loss of limb, as for Vendress beating Depa-no comment.I say Maul gets decapitated.

Meh. Maul's better than he gets credit for, but I don't see him outdueling a Vaapad master.

Have you read any Maul comics? They tend to be really good actually. He looks pretty cool in them. I'm not sying Maul would win because he looks cool, I'm saying he looks cool because he kicks butt (in the comics). You really get the whole athletic fighting from him.

It's his style, really. They made a good choice in picking what's his face to portray him.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Meh. Maul's better than he gets credit for, but I don't see him outdueling a Vaapad master.

Maul is a Juyo Master. I think Maul wins by a very small margin.

Out of respect for the fact that the short 25 words he ever uttered were those filled with malice, I voted Maul.

Let's see...
Mace > Sidious
Sidious > Maul (by far)
Depa is close to Mace but still Maul wins ?

If you want to have a look at the lightsaber styles: Maul mastered form VII which is nice for him. Vaapad mastery does at least require form VII mastery - other sources say it requires form IV, V and VII mastery but I'm not sure about it. So Depa did at least master Mauls own style and something that is the completion of this style. Depa > Maul in lightsaber combat.

For force powers we can't tell but at least Depa is a Jedi Master and Maul is a lesser pawn compared to his own master in terms of force powers.

So...if Depa's lightsaber skill isn't enough Maul's arrogance will take him down. Hell...he was almost killed by a Padawan in Shadow Hunter and then got his ass kicked by Padawan Obi-Wan in TPM. A Jedi Master with Vaapad mastery should be able to kill him.

Agreed, Nai. Juyo Master isn't quite possible since it's an incomplete style.

i think Anakin takes this match

im going with maul. Just because depas STYLE is better means little. Plo's style is better than kits but we all agree kit can beat plo. Also Maul tends to get cocky after he wins.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
im going with maul. Just because depas STYLE is better means little. Plo's style is better than kits but we all agree kit can beat plo. Also Maul tends to get cocky after he wins.

Depas style is not simply better - it's the completion of the style Maul was using and she mastered Maul's own style. So what would give Maul the edge here ? Fighting against somebody with a better lightsaber style (which Maul doesn't even know about), fighting against somebody with a very "dark" mindset (that will suprise Maul), fighting against somebody that mastered his own style or fighting against somebody that has - as far as we can tell - the better force mastery ?

And no doubt more experience, as she was a jedi master on the council by TPM. Maul is pretty well outclassed here.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Depas style is not simply better - it's the completion of the style Maul was using and she mastered Maul's own style. So what would give Maul the edge here ? Fighting against somebody with a better lightsaber style (which Maul doesn't even know about), fighting against somebody with a very "dark" mindset (that will suprise Maul), fighting against somebody that mastered his own style or fighting against somebody that has - as far as we can tell - the better force mastery ? well maul has a double bladed saber, the darkside (which is better then sudden outbreaks of it). we dont know anything about force powers so lets call that equal. It pretty much is vappad vs double bladed saber. also maul pwned qui gon who is pretty good but that is beside the point. lol. As for the expiriance thing janus, how old is depa? 30? 40? 45 max. Also all the years before ROTS count for little. Maul got sith training that is more valuabe then what mace taught depa because without war there wasnt much for mace to teach.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
And no doubt more experience, as she was a jedi master on the council by TPM. Maul is pretty well outclassed here.

Maul has killed two Masters, one of who could have been on the Council.

We've seen how good Qui-gon's experince did against Maul. Qui-gon was at least a veteran of a real conflict, Depa had participated in none until the Clone Wars, where she saw little action(compared to many others).

Avis, don't be a fanboy, because I don't want to have to smash your argument into the ground when I shouldn't have to. Obi-Wan Kenobi as a padawan went toe to toe with Maul and did exceptionally well. Depa Billaba, who has MASTERED Juoy and even Vaapad, would destroy him. It's pretty well evident that she's just below Mace's level. Do you know a thing about her, I wonder?

Oh jesus. Here's Glentract with the "Let's get on the wagon" routine. **** this thread. It's not worth my time. Sheesh. Why do I bother?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Let's see...
Mace > Sidious
Sidious > Maul (by far)
Depa is close to Mace but still Maul wins ?

If you want to have a look at the lightsaber styles: Maul mastered form VII which is nice for him. Vaapad mastery does at least require form VII mastery - other sources say it requires form IV, V and VII mastery but I'm not sure about it. So Depa did at least master Mauls own style and something that is the completion of this style. Depa > Maul in lightsaber combat.

For force powers we can't tell but at least Depa is a Jedi Master and Maul is a lesser pawn compared to his own master in terms of force powers.

So...if Depa's lightsaber skill isn't enough Maul's arrogance will take him down. Hell...he was almost killed by a Padawan in Shadow Hunter and then got his ass kicked by Padawan Obi-Wan in TPM. A Jedi Master with Vaapad mastery should be able to kill him.

1) Not saying Sidious doesn't > Maul, but the TPM visual dictionary actually says Maul has better saber skills than Sidious. And in some book they actually fight and Maul nearly wins. And, um, Sidious faked the duel, but I don't start an arguement, if you want to do so in an appropreiate thread.
2) Mace, who had just broken many bones and gotten many other injuries, could have easily beaten depa in Shatterpoint. A fulkly healed Mace'd beat her by far.
3) What? Maul uses Vaapad?
4) As far as Force goes this is undeterminable.
5) OMG. Darsha was a very gifted Padawan who was on the power level of a Knight. Maul only lost to Obi-Wan the same why Dooku lost to Anakin. And Maul beat Qui-Gon and Anoon Bondara.


But Maul's killed lots of people, some being Jedi. Has Depa ever even been in a real duel?

Im not a fanboy. Janus stop. you are my friend and i dont want to fight with you. Maul was horrably cocky because he thought "hell, i just beat a master! this should be a piece of cake!!!" also Depa is not just below mace. what about anakin, obi, cin, luminara, etc.

Darsha blew herself up in an attempt to kill Maul. She knew she didn't stand a chance.

things that go BUMP in the night

Originally posted by darthsith19
1) Not saying Sidious doesn't > Maul, but the TPM visual dictionary actually says Maul has better saber skills than Sidious. And in some book they actually fight and Maul nearly wins. And, um, Sidious faked the duel, but I don't start an arguement, if you want to do so in an appropreiate thread.


Every damn main character in the movies has better saber skills then Sidious. So what ? Yoda has, Mace has (and he won his fight against Sidious - contradict Lucas as much as you like, fanboy), Obi-Wan and Anakin have, Dooku has. So what ?



He could not have beaten Depa in Shatterpoint. It's said that she is too fast for him and their fight ends with Mace having a lightsaber sticked to body. If he could have easily beaten her (without injuring / killing her) he would have done that.



Maul uses Juyo. Vaapad = completion of Juyo.



As far as Force goes we have somebody on Council level vs a better Dark Jedi. Has Maul ever deflected blaster fire from two different directions and reflected 7 blaster bolts into a single hole on a moving target (like Depa did in Shatterpoint) ?



OMG. Depa is a Jedi Master, was on the Council in TPM times, is one of the two persons who ever mastered Vaapad and is said to be close to Mace on several ocassions - something that people here can't simply accept as far as it seems. She's better than everybody Maul has fought.



Depa has seen quite some battles while being trained by Mace. Then she had several months on a Jungle Planet fighting a guerilla war, in Shatterpoint she enters a gunboat (or something like that) and kills 20 or 30 people in it on her own. And she duelled Mace and gave him some nice hits (through his defence). I'm sure Mace could have beaten her if he wanted to fight her and would have been in normal condition but he wouldn't have done that easily.

Maul has fought four Jedi (Darsha, Anoon, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan)...he killed one (Qui-Gon), two commited suicide and both nearly killed him with that (Darsha, Anoon) and Obi-Wan killed him.

@Avis:


Can they defeat a Vaapad master in a lightsaber fight in AotC times ? I pretty much doubt that.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Every damn main character in the movies has better saber skills then Sidious. So what ? Yoda has, Mace has (and he won his fight against Sidious - contradict Lucas as much as you like, fanboy), Obi-Wan and Anakin have, Dooku has. So what ?



He could not have beaten Depa in Shatterpoint. It's said that she is too fast for him and their fight ends with Mace having a lightsaber sticked to body. If he could have easily beaten her (without injuring / killing her) he would have done that.



Maul uses Juyo. Vaapad = completion of Juyo.



As far as Force goes we have somebody on Council level vs a better Dark Jedi. Has Maul ever deflected blaster fire from two different directions and reflected 7 blaster bolts into a single hole on a moving target (like Depa did in Shatterpoint) ?



OMG. Depa is a Jedi Master, was on the Council in TPM times, is one of the two persons who ever mastered Vaapad and is said to be close to Mace on several ocassions - something that people here can't simply accept as far as it seems. She's better than everybody Maul has fought.



Depa has seen quite some battles while being trained by Mace. Then she had several months on a Jungle Planet fighting a guerilla war, in Shatterpoint she enters a gunboat (or something like that) and kills 20 or 30 people in it on her own. And she duelled Mace and gave him some nice hits (through his defence). I'm sure Mace could have beaten her if he wanted to fight her and would have been in normal condition but he wouldn't have done that easily.

Maul has fought four Jedi (Darsha, Anoon, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan)...he killed one (Qui-Gon), two commited suicide and both nearly killed him with that (Darsha, Anoon) and Obi-Wan killed him.

@Avis:


Can they defeat a Vaapad master in a lightsaber fight in AotC times ? I pretty much doubt that.
1) I'd say Mace, Tyranus, Obi and Ani have equal saber skills with Sidious. And Luke, Qui-Gon, Grievous, any Obi-Wan/Ani except ROTS have worse saber skills than Sidious.
2) No, in Shatterpoint he wasn't trying. Somebdy who knows the book better than I do, please help me.
3) Yup, Maul has done that.
4) Maybe nshe is, maybe not. But Jinn is said to be close to Mace and Maul beat him.
5) Yeah, two committed suicide to try and kill him and failed. I seriously doubt depa would have survived the explosion Anoon Bondara created.
6) Depa may have done alot but there's no use denying that Maul has more experience as far as saber dueling goes.
7) Maul was trained for a simply purpose: To kill Jedi. He'd beat Depa.

I agree with you on Shatterpoint DS19.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Every damn main character in the movies has better saber skills then Sidious. So what ? Yoda has, Mace has (and he won his fight against Sidious - contradict Lucas as much as you like, fanboy), Obi-Wan and Anakin have, Dooku has. So what ?



He could not have beaten Depa in Shatterpoint. It's said that she is too fast for him and their fight ends with Mace having a lightsaber sticked to body. If he could have easily beaten her (without injuring / killing her) he would have done that.



Maul uses Juyo. Vaapad = completion of Juyo.



As far as Force goes we have somebody on Council level vs a better Dark Jedi. Has Maul ever deflected blaster fire from two different directions and reflected 7 blaster bolts into a single hole on a moving target (like Depa did in Shatterpoint) ?



OMG. Depa is a Jedi Master, was on the Council in TPM times, is one of the two persons who ever mastered Vaapad and is said to be close to Mace on several ocassions - something that people here can't simply accept as far as it seems. She's better than everybody Maul has fought.



Depa has seen quite some battles while being trained by Mace. Then she had several months on a Jungle Planet fighting a guerilla war, in Shatterpoint she enters a gunboat (or something like that) and kills 20 or 30 people in it on her own. And she duelled Mace and gave him some nice hits (through his defence). I'm sure Mace could have beaten her if he wanted to fight her and would have been in normal condition but he wouldn't have done that easily.

Maul has fought four Jedi (Darsha, Anoon, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan)...he killed one (Qui-Gon), two commited suicide and both nearly killed him with that (Darsha, Anoon) and Obi-Wan killed him.

@Avis:


Can they defeat a Vaapad master in a lightsaber fight in AotC times ? I pretty much doubt that. In AOTC no way. In ROTS, yes.

Originally posted by darthsith19
2) No, in Shatterpoint he wasn't trying. Somebdy who knows the book better than I do, please help me.

He didn't try to kill her. He did try to defend against her attacks and failed at least two times to do so.



Maul used two lightsabers and deflected 7 blaster bolts from different directions in a single hole on a moving target ? In your dreams ?



Jinn being close to Mace ? When ? In TPM times ? Any copies of "Shadow Hunter" should be burned...really...



No. She would have killed him before he had the chance to create this explosion.



Denying ? You should not deny that Depa had more saber duelling experience than Maul. She was trained from infancy on and sad on the Council in TPM times which means that she had 13 years of train before becoming a Padawan, another 10-12 years as a Padawan under Mace (with practice fights against him), then another 10-12 years training own Padawans to be on the Council. But Maul has more experience ?



Oh. Great reasoning. Simply completely ignore the fact that Maul was killed by a Padawan who destroyed his lightsaber before and put him on his ass. Depa would waste him.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
In AOTC no way. In ROTS, yes.

See...that was the point as Shatterpoint is very close to AotC. Depa could be the number 3 Jedi when it comes to lightsaber combat at this time (behind Mace and Yoda).

it said at the middle of the clone wars.

It was 6 months after AOTC, Avis. Check the front of the book. Chronologically, it's the first Clone Wars novel.

ohh well i got the book from a friend, read it, and returned it

Originally posted by Borbarad
See...that was the point as Shatterpoint is very close to AotC. Depa could be the number 3 Jedi when it comes to lightsaber combat at this time (behind Mace and Yoda).

You really think she could take Cin or Luminara? Maybe I am underestimating her.

Well, neither Cin nor Luminara are lightweights, but Depa is crazy good. You have to imagine she mastered Vaapad before her fall, and this implies incredible saber mastery since the style mixes many others.

Vapaad is an extention of Juyo. Juyo, being an unfinised form, had to be completed by whatever else the user knew, probably their training in form one. Vapaad also adds a state of mind to it. It was rumored that it required knowledge of Makashi and Djem So, but that was just that, a rumor. Even if the rumor was true, it doesn't require all of Forms 2 or 5.

Originally posted by Borbarad
He didn't try to kill her. He did try to defend against her attacks and failed at least two times to do so.



Maul used two lightsabers and deflected 7 blaster bolts from different directions in a single hole on a moving target ? In your dreams ?



Jinn being close to Mace ? When ? In TPM times ? Any copies of "Shadow Hunter" should be burned...really...



No. She would have killed him before he had the chance to create this explosion.



Denying ? You should not deny that Depa had more saber duelling experience than Maul. She was trained from infancy on and sad on the Council in TPM times which means that she had 13 years of train before becoming a Padawan, another 10-12 years as a Padawan under Mace (with practice fights against him), then another 10-12 years training own Padawans to be on the Council. But Maul has more experience ?



Oh. Great reasoning. Simply completely ignore the fact that Maul was killed by a Padawan who destroyed his lightsaber before and put him on his ass. Depa would waste him.
1) The Mace vs. depa thing is just dumb. Mace'd pwn her.
2) Okay, so he didn't. Whatever.
3) Yes, Jinn was close to Mace in TPM times.
4) Shadow Hunter is a good book, IMHO. Anyone caught burning any copies of it should be punished.
5) yeah, I'm sure Depa would beat Anoon Bondara is like 3 seconds
6) I never said more experience. I said more dueling experience. Who has Depa dueled in a real duel? Nobody I know of.
7) Yeah, Maul got killed by a Padawan but Depa died of a coma.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
Im not a fanboy. Janus stop. you are my friend and i dont want to fight with you. Maul was horrably cocky because he thought "hell, i just beat a master! this should be a piece of cake!!!" also Depa is not just below mace. what about anakin, obi, cin, luminara, etc.

Bullshit excuse. Dooku was arrogant and he didn't legitimately die from a Padawan.

so are you saying that obi wan won fare and square?

Originally posted by Darth Avis
so are you saying that obi wan won fare and square?

Exactly! Would you consider Maul throwing Kenobi into a Generator shaft a "Fair and Square" win? Kenobi was doing fine with Maul the entire fight. Kenobi sooner or later got the upper hand and Maul failed to react quick enough and was killed due to poor reaction time and bad saber skills. He lost and was ultimately defeated.

1) The Mace vs. depa thing is just dumb. Mace'd pwn her.

Yeah, exactly why he gives props to her and her deadliness the ENTIRE BOOK. Because he'd just pwn her.


2) Okay, so he didn't. Whatever.

Oh snap. What a statement o' logic.

3) Yes, Jinn was close to Mace in TPM times.

Proof of this? Oh wait... the single line of hyperbole in the TPM novelisation. In Cloak of Deception, Qui-Gon has trouble taking out a sniper at medium range. Mace Windu sailed through the battle a Geonosis, landed, and decaptiated Jango Fett, the deadliest man in the galaxy and a far cry from the goon Qui nearly died to. Now, assumig you're right and they were about equal, Mace Windu must have -really- done some training in ten years to become -that- good, huh?

Please, before claiming this as fact, substantiate it.


4) Shadow Hunter is a good book, IMHO. Anyone caught burning any copies of it should be punished.

I think it's okay. It's a virtual Maul fanboy appeasement piece, but the same could be said for other books.


5) yeah, I'm sure Depa would beat Anoon Bondara is like 3 seconds

Considering her experience and style and known feats of deadliness, I'd say possibly.


6) I never said more experience. I said more dueling experience. Who has Depa dueled in a real duel? Nobody I know of.

And who has Yoda dueled in a real duel before AOTC? Was he weaker than anyone else just because you didn't see it happen?


7) Yeah, Maul got killed by a Padawan but Depa died of a coma.

No, she did not die of a coma. Have you ever heard of anyone dying of a coma? They don't exactly leap up and take you out. She suffered shock and mental damage in the war and because of the lure of Vaapad. This effectively put her in a catatonic coma. She died in the purge, presumably, because she could not be supported nor could she defend herself.

And Maul still got schooled by TPM Obi-Wan, who would die in a fight against a seasoned Vaapad fighter. So please, give up.

Why do you people always say TPM Obi-Wan schooled Maul? I mean in TPM Obi is no where near Qui-Gon and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Maul kill Qui-Gon?

Uh, did you see the fight? Obi-wan fought better than Qui gon did, period.

So you think TPM Obi-Wan would beat Qui-Gon?

In a straight up fight? Probably. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility. My thoughts on it come from watching the two fight. Obi has a tighter defense and better reflexes. Qui Gon leaves himself open a lot and has a horrid defense.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Exactly! Would you consider Maul throwing Kenobi into a Generator shaft a "Fair and Square" win? Kenobi was doing fine with Maul the entire fight. Kenobi sooner or later got the upper hand and Maul failed to react quick enough and was killed due to poor reaction time and bad saber skills. He lost and was ultimately defeated.
LOL, yeah, and Anakin with one arm and no lightsaber was stronger than Sidious

She's strong, but as we saw at the end she's really not much of a match for Mace. he was injured and wasn't even trying to win but still won.

Well, seeing as we've not seen TPM Mace fight it's cannon.

1) Yeah, Mace sailed through the battle of Geonosis and killed Fett. More like ran at him and merely sliced off his head, something Jinn would have no problem doing.
2) Jango the dealiest man in the galaxy? Talk about hyperbole.
3) Yeah, Mace did do some training and di improve a lot.

Anoon Bondara, who's said to be the strongert Jedi in the galaxy in terms of saber skills? Personally I'm not even sure if Depa's capably of defeating him, definately not in 3 seconds.

Janus, you don't get it do you. For one thing in over 850 years as a Jedi surley he hasd dueled several combatants. And I never said Depa was weak for never being in a real duel I merely stated the fact that Maul has more dueling experience. And their's no point argueing in less you can present me with some people Depa has dueled in a real duel.

Yes. Depa.

Nevertheless, a way lamer way to die than at the hands of Padawan Kenobi.

No, not schooled. Obi-Wan only won for the same reason one armed, unarmed Anakin beat Sidious. That means Anakin's stronger, right? No, Maul was beating Obi-Wan's ass for 99% of the duel, remely made the fatal mistake of letting his guard down for the last 1%.

Well... nah.

LOL, no way, dude, most people said Qui-Gon would beat AOTC Obi-Wan in the Qui-Gon vs. AOTC Obi-Wan thread and AOTC Obi-Wan's stronger than TPM Qui-Gon. Seriously, just because Obi-Wan's faster doesn't mean he'll win. And who's defense did Maul break more times, Obi-Wan's or Qui-Gon's? Exactly. Obi has better defnese my ass.

Actually, Maul put Qui Gon on the defensive with ONE MOVE. Obi-Wan didn't even give ground despite having Maul counterattack.

And yes, Boba Fett being the deadliest man in the galaxy is hyperbole. So is the idea of TPM Qui-Gon Jinn being as good as Mace Windu. No proof either way. And it's NOT canon, since the novelisation is an author's interpretation of movie events.

And really, if it's so hard for you to believe that Depa can beat your beloved Maul perhaps you should go argue your point to people who buy into your arguments. I'm not one of them.

Originally posted by Ianus
Actually, Maul put Qui Gon on the defensive with ONE MOVE. Obi-Wan didn't even give ground despite having Maul counterattack.

And yes, Boba Fett being the deadliest man in the galaxy is hyperbole. So is the idea of TPM Qui-Gon Jinn being as good as Mace Windu. No proof either way. And it's NOT canon, since the novelisation is an author's interpretation of movie events.

And really, if it's so hard for you to believe that Depa can beat your beloved Maul perhaps you should go argue your point to people who buy into your arguments. I'm not one of them.

1) So what? He only broke Jinn's defenses twice and he broke Obi-Wan's four times.
2) Jango you mean, not Boba. Janus, EU isn't cannon. To bad we're in the EU section and therefor EU counts.
3) If you don't like my arguements then why are you talking to me? All you ever tell me is you don't like my arguements. I get it. Tough.

Originally posted by darthsith19
2) Jango you mean, not Boba. Janus, EU isn't cannon. To bad we're in the EU section and therefor EU counts.


Point for Darth Sith, that actually surprises me, no offense, I mean it as a complement. Wait, what point does he have again? This is the EU section? Since when?

DS19, you need to figure it out that EU IS canon. GL himself says so.

Let's see, Depa mastered Maul's incomplete form, had such potential that she was the youngest ever female jedi to be put on the council, was able to challenge Mace and put up a very strong fight and Mace mentions several times in Shatterpoint that she is the deadliest saber dueler in the whole order with the exception of himself and Yoda.