Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

And I have a proof right here:

Namor is mistaken as Polaris Missile. They are able to go 8000 MPH. (What happened to sixty? :lol)

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11

"Namor wastes little time! He becomes a meteor, a lighting bolt, a streak, across the midday sky...speeding toward the coastline of America!"

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11

How fast is lighting? Oh yeah, third of speed of light. A meteor? Highest speeds are calculated to be seventy-two kilometres per SECOND.

That sound like Category 3 speed to you? (Not able to go faster then Mach 1)

I think he is able to fly with supersonic speeds. He reached United States very fast. Not to mention he leaped fast enough to reach and OUTRUN meteors in the same issue. (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614044285.jpg&s=x11 , http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614061841.jpg&s=x11)

And he has gaught missiles from sky before with EASE.

So...all the people who believed that Namor would not be fast enough to speed-blitz etc. Storm were wrong.

(And I also mean you, GS. )

Uh, I intend no disrespect but the polaris missle thing was observed by the human eye rather than a machine . . . and the becoming those different things is just hyperbole as he didn't really become those. . .

I have no doubt he'd be able to beat storm, as he is really fast, but not really 8000 mph fast. . .

indeed

Storm does fly using the power of wind. How fast can wind go? I don't know much on the subject, but I don't think wind reaches 200 mph very often.

I think a lot of heroes theoretically should be able to outfly storm :>.

That is still someone who is "mistaken" him for a missle, there's a key word.
and old style comic flavor hype paragraph with no statistic.
I'm sure if you found an old comic of Batman it would say "and with lightning speed the dynamic duo are off in the batmobile, but are they prepared to fight the menace of THE COCKROACH MAN!?"

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Storm does fly using the power of wind. How fast can wind go? I don't know much on the subject, but I don't think wind reaches 200 mph very often.

I think a lot of heroes theoretically should be able to outfly storm :>.

well you are wrong. the speed storm goes is based on her will and how fast she wants to go. she has gone mach speeds before easy sometimes.

Highest measured wind speed is 300 mph. . . Though Storm can push weather phenomenon higher than normal. . .

Originally posted by stormfront13
well you are wrong. the speed storm goes is based on her will and how fast she wants to go. she has gone mach speeds before easy sometimes. I call bullshit. Her flight speed is limited by her durability. When has she shown Mach speeds at all, let alone easily? Mach 1 is 340 m/s or 760 mph.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I call bullshit. Her flight speed is limited by her durability. When has she shown Mach speeds at all, let alone easily? Mach 1 is 340 m/s or 760 mph.

she is very, very resistant to the affects of the weather, wind-um...idk what it's called, i can't remember, but she's resistant to the harmfull affects of the wind. her flight speed is only limited by her need to go fast, or her willingness to bend natures rules. she has flown mach 3 in the past, yes she strains to go mach speeds, but she doesn't strain to go speeds over natures natural wind speeds.

She's flown at 2300 mph? When exactly?

i call hyperbole,plus thats the old style comics. namor is not that fast. under water he's a speed demon, but on land he's nothing....its the same way that aquaman can swim as fast as supes can fly in atmosphere....Arthur has been shown swimming at 20000ft per sec. so id wager that Namor is about the same....under water!

Originally posted by stormfront13
well you are wrong. the speed storm goes is based on her will and how fast she wants to go. she has gone mach speeds before easy sometimes.



I'd ask for proof; but I know I wont get any.

Originally posted by manjaro
i call hyperbole,plus thats the old style comics. namor is not that fast. under water he's a speed demon, but on land he's nothing....its the same way that aquaman can swim as fast as supes can fly in atmosphere....Arthur has been shown swimming at 20000ft per sec. so id wager that Namor is about the same....under water!
Namor's fly is powered by telekinesis and partially by his wings.
He already showed he can reach escape velocity when with Genis Vell he throwed a machinery that was going to explode into space and they flew from sea to the space in a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Namor's fly is powered by telekinesis and partially by his wings.
He already showed he can reach escape velocity when with Genis Vell he throwed a machinery that was going to explode into space and they flew from sea to the space in a matter of seconds.

PIS. Thats a one off. Just like IW having telepathy or similar ridiculous events in comics. Hyperbole aside Namor used to be stated to be able to fly at 60 mph in his bios. Now he's just put in class 3 by the new system which encompasses anything up to mach speed and therefore still supports that old value. Comic book appearances dont accurately reflect these handbook figures the same goes with Storm and some of her abilities however inaccurate as these figures may be if not taken literally you still know that according to Marvel, in their eyes Storm is faster in terms of flight speed. Thats all that really matters.

Until you have scans which directly compare their abilities you can never say Namor is faster when its stated in most handbooks that he's not.

I like how people are sticking firmly by Storms handbook speed entry despite comic book appearances which dont reflect the entry yet are ignoring Namors entry because of some 1960's, hyperbole saturated scans.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You still know that according to Marvel, in their eyes Storm is faster in terms of flight speed. Thats all that really matters.You work at Marvel?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Until you have scans which directly compare their abilities you can never say Namor is faster when its stated in most handbooks that he's not.

I like how people are sticking firmly by Storms handbook speed entry despite comic book appearances which dont reflect the entry yet are ignoring Namors entry because of some 1960's, hyperbole saturated scans. Storm is also put in class 3. Personally I'm as sceptical about Namor travelling as fast as a Polaris missile as I am about Storm travelling at Mach 3. Do you happen to have multiple instances where it explicitly or implicitly shows or states she's exceeding Mach 0.5?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You work at Marvel?

No but the people who write the handbooks do and they state a higher speed rating for Storm than they do for Namor. Under th enew system they are both in level 3 which encompasses a wide range of values so doesnt exactly contradict previous values given for Namors speed for example. Thats what i meant. Read properly.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Storm is also put in class 3. Personally I'm as sceptical about Namor travelling as fast as a Polaris missile as I am about Storm travelling at Mach 3. Do you happen to have multiple instances where it explicitly or implicitly shows or states she's exceeding Mach 0.5?

Theres instances of her travelling between states in minutes which if you know the distance between them shows she isnt limited 300 mph. I'll have to dig up the issue but it was was the first issue of the story arc where Doom transforms her into a chrome statue.

I'll look for more examples and post scans where i can.
Recent, hyperbole-free scans.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No but the people who write the handbooks do and they state a higher speed rating for Storm than they do for Namor. Under th enew system they are both in level 3 which encompasses a wide range of values so doesnt exactly contradict previous values given for Namors speed for example. Thats what i meant. Read properly.I'm not dyslexic or illiterate.Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You still know that according to Marvel, in their eyes Storm is faster in terms of flight speed. Thats all that really matters.This ^ isn't presuming to speak for Marvel? Okay....

They don't indicate Namor's flight speeds in handbooks, and they both have the same speed rating of 3 (which you say so yourself in the same paragraph that you say they state a higher speed rating for Storm ...) so it's hardly conclusive whose faster "in Marvel's eyes."
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theres instances of her travelling between states in minutes which if you know the distance between them shows she isnt limited 300 mph. I'll have to dig up the issue but it was was the first issue of the story arc where Doom transforms her into a chrome statue.

I'll look for more examples and post scans where i can.
Recent, hyperbole-free scans. It says she travels 90 miles, in "minutes". 20 minutes is still "in minutes". I don't think the uniforms come with matching watches.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not dyslexic or illiterate.This ^ isn't presuming to speak for Marvel? Okay....

No but you dont take in and comprehend information adequately for my liking hence my previous statement. I told you that Marvel had speed figures for both Storm and Namor with Storms being higher. I then said that at least we know that in the eyes of Marvel Storm is faster. That isnt presuming to speak for Marvel thats making a statement based on what an official marvel source which represents Marvels views actually shows. You then spouted sewage and then continued to utter the above nonsense.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They don't indicate Namor's flight speeds in handbooks, and they both have the same speed rating of 3 (which you say so yourself in the same paragraph that you say they state a higher speed rating for Storm ...) so it's hardly conclusive whose faster "in Marvel's eyes."

Incorrect. They do give Namors flight speed in handbooks. Dont spout off unfounded opinion and present it as fact. As the below shows it is NOT:

Storm

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7217/offhandbookmarveldeluxeedition.th.jpg

Namor

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7217/offhandbookmarveldeluxeedition.th.jpg



Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It says she travels 90 miles, in "minutes". 20 minutes is still "in minutes". I don't think the uniforms come with matching watches.

What a lame counter. When someone says they'll do something in minutes since when is that anything other than a few minutes. If i recall that scene referred to how she warped weather patterns to reach her destination in mins so anything other than a few minutes is highly unlikely and far from what is presented.

You've all forgotten the fact that he...leapt from meteor to meteor. Most meteors go with speeds of 40 kilometres per second.

Silver Age is canon.

The comic was written by Stan Lee.

And 40 MPH?! That's about as fast as a moped...

Comics show that Namor can go WAY faster.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11

Seriosly, you can ignore all the countless years of comics that show Namor and base him with one handbook entry.

You can trust guys named "Stuart Vandal" and "Michael Hoskin"...in their eyes, Storm may be faster.

I'll stay with Stan Lee.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You've all forgotten the fact that he...leapt from meteor to meteor. Most meteors go with speeds of 40 kilometres per second.

Silver Age is canon.

The comic was written by Stan Lee.

And 40 MPH?! That's about as fast as a moped...

Comics show that Namor can go WAY faster.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11

Seriosly, you can ignore all the countless years of comics that show Namor and base him with one handbook entry.

You can trust guys named "Stuart Vandal" and "Michael Hoskin"...in their eyes, Storm may be faster.

I'll stay with Stan Lee.

What you dont seem to understand is that neither of the characters abilities on panel are 100% accurately represented in the handbooks however from the higher speed rating given to Storm you know that in the eyes of Marvel she is faster. Just like Namor is shown in comics fighting even defeating the hulk who in the handbooks comes out on top stats wise than Namor. The handbooks are just a guideline but they also provide hierarchy. Storm is faster in the air than Namor according to Marvel and until we see him outpacing something or someone Storm has been shown not to, or they have a confrontation, you cant conclusively say otherwise. Hyperbole doesnt cut it.

Another speed feat of Storms is keeping up with the Human Torch who at top speed can reach escape velocity. He even remarked on her speed saying "Youve got the speed to make a race of this".

Oooooo im just anxiously waiting for the retort lol

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Incorrect. They do give Namors flight speed in handbooks. Dont spout off unfounded opinion and present it as fact.I recalled a quote from DarkCrawler who knows infinitely more about Namor than I. If it was inaccurate then I retract said statement. The "sewerage" was me - while under aforementioned belief that DC's statement was correct - assuming you were being as condescending as usual and stating your opinion as Marvel's.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What a lame counter. When someone says they'll do something in minutes since when is that anything other than a few minutes. If i recall that scene referred to how she warped weather patterns to reach her destination in mins so anything other than a few minutes is highly unlikely and far from what is presented. You may consider it "lame", but it's valid. Time of flight can't be drawn from what is presented. It doesn't even depict her flying there. You can assume that she did it in a few minutes. One can also easily assume that she took longer.

Add to that there's a difference between a character saying something and a character actually doing it. It's equally easy to consider it hyperbole.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What you dont seem to understand is that neither of the characters abilities on panel are 100% accurately represented in the handbooks however from the higher speed rating given to Storm you know that in the eyes of Marvel she is faster. Just like Namor is shown in comics fighting even defeating the hulk who in the handbooks comes out on top stats wise than Namor. The handbooks are just a guideline but they also provide hierarchy. Storm is faster in the air than Namor according to Marvel and until we see him outpacing something or someone Storm has been shown not to, or they have a confrontation, you cant conclusively say otherwise. Hyperbole doesnt cut it.

According to handbooks. Not Marvel. In the eyes of the handbook writer. Not Marvel.

There is no guy named "Marvel". Just that random guy who wrote the handbook entry. Do you really think he studied Namor comics? Apparently not, since he puts 40 MPH as maximum speed of a guy who is mistaken as missile.

I have yet seen Storm flying faster then Namor. When you can show me a proof, I may believe it.

Meanwhile, I have dozens of proof:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30708090890.gif&s=x11

And what do you have?

A handbook entry written by a random guy.

Sorry...I just believe countless of comic books more then handbooks.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Another speed feat of Storms is keeping up with the Human Torch who at top speed can reach escape velocity. He even remarked on her speed saying "Youve got the speed to make a race of this".

A scan...? Issue number...?

I provide them both, is it really so hard to write two or three more words to your post?

Namor has also kept up with the Human Torch.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I recalled a quote from DarkCrawler who knows infinitely more about Namor than I. If it was inaccurate then I retract said statement. The "sewerage" was me - while under aforementioned belief that DC's statement was correct - assuming you were being as condescending as usual and stating your opinion as Marvel's.

Well thats cool. If i am condescending its in reaction to an unpleasant tone in the post of another. It is not a default for myself. Although the reactions from posters can be amusing.



Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You may consider it "lame", but it's valid. Time of flight can't be drawn from what is presented. You can assume that she did it in a few minutes. One can also easily assume that she took longer.

Add to that there's a difference between a character saying something and a character actually doing it. It's equally easy to consider it hyperbole.

Fair enough. However when someone says they do something in mins they are usually referring to a very short duration. 20 mins is very unlikely. Its not conclusive evidence but the scene does infer that she travelled very quickly as the captions detail her waroing weather patterns.

So did the scene when Namor travelled to North America in minutes.

Here's Namor going near or with escape velocity (Yes, I know that Capt. Marvel is there too. But he is hardly doing all the work is it? Plus, Captain Marvel at those times wasn't 100th as good as he is today)

http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat518ez.gif

I say Namor is roughly doing half the work.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well thats cool. If i am condescending its in reaction to an unpleasant tone in the post of another. It is not a default for myself. Although the reactions from posters can be amusing.Well, just to be clear I don't want any unnecessary negativity (frankly any negativity over something as trivial as comic characters is unnecessary) between myself and other posters. I'm sure it's unintentional but to be frank you can come across as condescending at times.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Fair enough. However when someone says they do something in mins they are usually referring to a very short duration. 20 mins is very unlikely. Its not conclusive evidence but the scene does infer that she travelled very quickly as the captions detail her waroing weather patterns. I actually don't doubt that she can surpass 300 mph, but on stormfront's Mach 3, I call bullshit. I don't recall her reaching or breaking Mach 1, but if she's done so I'd say it would require a lot of effort.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
According to handbooks. Not Marvel. In the eyes of the handbook writer. Not Marvel.

There is no guy named "Marvel". Just that random guy who wrote the handbook entry. Do you really think he studied Namor comics? Apparently not, since he puts 40 MPH as maximum speed of a guy who is mistaken as missile.

I have yet seen Storm flying faster then Namor. When you can show me a proof, I may believe it.

Meanwhile, I have dozens of proof:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30708090890.gif&s=x11

And what do you have?

A handbook entry written by a random guy.

Sorry...I just believe countless of comic books more then handbooks.

Dont get cocky DC cos i'll only take you apart.

Your scans were far from sufficient proof of Namor travelling at speeds far faster than the handbooks state or that we believe.

Sunfires top speed is around 150 mph. (If you want a scan you know i'll come up with the goods). His crusing speed isnt going to be anywhere near that. Sunfire is just flying along and passes Namor who flies up behind him and attacks him. How does that scan show Namor is significantly faster than what we've been lead to believe?

Thats insufficent. Dont even mention the water flowing up behind him because we've been through that. Artistic expression and nothing more. Someone a few classes above Namor couldnt make the water do that in the same way. Again i say artistic expression.

Why you put up a scan of Namor being thrown through the air as proof i really dont know. Next.

Finally in the Polaris missile scan you have some people in a plane talking about how theyre flying over a missile testing facility. Next thing you know Namor bursts out of the water and flies towards them. They understandably mistake him for a missile. Not good enough. A case of mistaken identity not an accurate assessment of his speed from a credible source.

The handbooks are written by people who work for Marvel and they read through comics to come up with the bios. They are an official product and are endorsed by Marvel. According to them storm is faster than Namor. Simple as.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
A scan...? Issue number...?

I provide them both, is it really so hard to write two or three more words to your post?

Namor has also kept up with the Human Torch.

Namor was keeping up with Human Torch before HT's upgrade from level 3 to a level 5 rating. While im not saying Storm can attain such speeds im saying she is certainly faster than the 300 mph her bio states. Either way officially shes faster than Namor. So thats all that matters.

For a reference check out Contest of Champions 2.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Here's Namor going near or with escape velocity (Yes, I know that Capt. Marvel is there too. But he is hardly doing all the work is it? Plus, Captain Marvel at those times wasn't 100th as good as he is today)

http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat518ez.gif

I say Namor is roughly doing half the work.

Speculation on your part and mere plot device im afraid. All of your comic book evidence comes from the 60's/early70's when comics were rife with such rubbish and hyperbole. Come up with some recent conclusive sources. Im betting you cant. My handbook entry was published after that in the late 80's when comics were considerably less far fetched.

We know Namor cant fly at escape velocity and we know he cant breathe in space. Please a bit of common sense.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont get cocky DC cos i'll only take you apart.

Yes, because you are not being cocky at all.

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have morals or virtues that one does not truly possess or practice. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. The word is arguably derived from hypo- meaning under, + krinein meaning to decide/to dispute. A classic example of a hypocritical act is to denounce another for carrying out some action whilst carrying out the same action oneself.

The term hypocrisy is also commonly used in a way which should be more specifically termed a double standard, bias, or inconsistency. An example would be when one honestly believes that one group of individuals should be held to a different set of morals than another group.

Hypocrisy also refers to the act of criticizing others for behavior which one engages in as well, or in other words, not practising what you preach. An example would be a parent who smokes, but admonishes their adolescent child not to smoke. Some people believe that most, if not all people are hypocrites since we constantly criticize what we deem to be bad behavior, even though most people do bad things at some point in their lives."

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your scans were far from sufficient proof of Namor travelling at speeds far faster than the handbooks state or that we believe.

Yes.

Handbooks are wrong in many things.

Handbooks think that Storm is faster then Namor. Storm has never shown speed that exceeds Namor's speed before, so they are not right.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Sunfires top speed is around 150 mph. (If you want a scan you know i'll come up with the goods). His crusing speed isnt going to be anywhere near that. Sunfire is just flying along and passes Namor who flies up behind him and attacks him. How does that scan show Namor is significantly faster than what we've been lead to believe?

Significantly faster then what handbooks lead us to believe.

Just another proof that they should not be believed in.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats insufficent. Dont even mention the water flowing up behind him because we've been through that. Artistic expression and nothing more. Someone a few classes above Namor couldnt make the water do that in the same way. Again i say artistic expression.

Yes. We already went through that.

Sorry? Did I mention it again? Because I didn't notice that I did.

You just wasted an entire paragraph commenting something I didn't do.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why you put up a scan of Namor being thrown through the air as proof i really dont know. Next.

That was the only thing you noticed? You sure have selective eyes.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Finally in the Polaris missile scan you have some people in a plane talking about how theyre flying over a missile testing facility. Next thing you know Namor bursts out of the water and flies towards them. They understandably mistake him for a missile. Not good enough. A case of mistaken identity not an accurate assessment of his speed from a credible source.

He's still mistaken as missile.

An 40 MPH speed wouldn't make them do that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The handbooks are written by people who work for Marvel and they read through comics to come up with the bios. They are an official product and are endorsed by Marvel. According to them storm is faster than Namor. Simple as.

And they are wrong. Comics has never shown Storm being faster flyer then Namor. Simple as.

Unless you can show me a comic where Storm goes faster then Namor is capable of doing, you don't have anything else then empty words, with only handbooks as your guide.

Meanwhile (Like I have mentioned) I have coutless of scans showing that Namor is as fast as Storm.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Speculation on your part and mere plot device im afraid. All of your comic book evidence comes from the 60's/early70's when comics were rife with such rubbish and hyperbole. Come up with some recent conclusive sources. Im betting you cant. My handbook entry was published after that in the late 80's when comics were considerably less far fetched.

We know Namor cant fly at escape velocity and we know he cant breathe in space. Please a bit of common sense.

Every comic I have shown is canon.

Makers of your handbook entry haven't obviously read a Namor comic in their life (40 MPH ).

It's kind of hard to come with recent sources, since Namor roughly appears in ten comics per year, most of his appearences being guest appearences.

SO, I am going with what he has done in comics. Which is a conclusive proof.

We might as well ignore ALL feats of characters before 1990...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Namor was keeping up with Human Torch before HT's upgrade from level 3 to a level 5 rating. While im not saying Storm can attain such speeds im saying she is certainly faster than the 300 mph her bio states. Either way officially shes faster than Namor. So thats all that matters.

For a reference check out Contest of Champions 2.

Contest of Champions?

You mean the one where Gambit beat Gladiator?

You are meaning a different Contest of Champions, aren't you?

Wait...you are saying that Storm is faster then her bio states...

And Namor is faster too...

They are both Class 3...

Where do you get this official opinion that Storm is faster then Namor?

Because comics sure don't show it...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yes, because you are not being cocky at all.

"Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have morals or virtues that one does not truly possess or practice. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. The word is arguably derived from hypo- meaning under, + krinein meaning to decide/to dispute. A classic example of a hypocritical act is to denounce another for carrying out some action whilst carrying out the same action oneself.

The term hypocrisy is also commonly used in a way which should be more specifically termed a double standard, bias, or inconsistency. An example would be when one honestly believes that one group of individuals should be held to a different set of morals than another group.

Hypocrisy also refers to the act of criticizing others for behavior which one engages in as well, or in other words, not practising what you preach. An example would be a parent who smokes, but admonishes their adolescent child not to smoke. Some people believe that most, if not all people are hypocrites since we constantly criticize what we deem to be bad behavior, even though most people do bad things at some point in their lives."

Chill son just playing with ya. I would take u though



Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yes.

Handbooks are wrong in many things.

Handbooks think that Storm is faster then Namor. Storm has never shown speed that exceeds Namor's speed before, so they are not right.



Significantly faster then what handbooks lead us to believe.

Just another proof that they should not be believed in.



Yes. We already went through that.

Sorry? Did I mention it again? Because I didn't notice that I did.

None of your scans show Namor to be faster than Storm. Faster than his hgandbook entry yeah i'll agree with that but you have no evidence to say that. On top of that Storm has been shown to be faster than her handbook entry as well. Not one of your scans show Namor is faster than Storm. They show him sneaking up on Sunfire whose cruising speed would be significantly less than his 150 mph max. Does that sound like a gd speed feat for Namor? lol.





Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He's still mistaken as missile.

An 40 MPH speed wouldn't make them do that.

Yes and dolphins can be mistaken for great white sharks. Whats your point? The men were flying in a missile testing zone then all of a sudden they see an object come out of nowhere and fly towards them. Mistaken identity thats all. In form he looked like a missile until he got closer and that was discounted. Nothing was mentioned about his speed whatsoever. MOOT point.




Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And they are wrong. Comics has never shown Storm being faster flyer then Namor. Simple as.

Unless you can show me a comic where Storm goes faster then Namor is capable of doing, you don't have anything else then empty words, with only handbooks as your guide.

Meanwhile (Like I have mentioned) I have coutless of scans showing that Namor is as fast as Storm.

But you havent though. None of your examples are sufficient. You have Namor sneaking up on a cruising Sunfire who at top speed is rated at 150mph. Thats nothing.

You have a case of mistaken identity, with no mention of speed whatsoever.

You have Namor flying a weapon up into the sky. Cap M joins him and together they fly it up to orbit. We know conclusively that Namor cant fly at escape velocity (or anywhere near it) and we know he cant breather in space. So one can infer that Captain M helped him or that the whole affair was just more 60's rubbish which contradicts comic affairs and characters reprsentations of the last 20 years. Ive noticed how none of your scans of Namor are recent. All from said period. I wonder why LOL.

You have an out of context pic of namor flying along with SS. We know SS i sfaster than Namor so what point are you trying to make by posting it? They were teammates theyre flying to a mission together. Flying off at light speed leaving Namor behind is hardly team spirit is it? Youve got nothing. Nothing there shows anything of the sort. No conclusive evidence whatsoever.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Every comic I have shown is canon.

Makers of your handbook entry haven't obviously read a Namor comic in their life (40 MPH ).

It's kind of hard to come with recent sources, since Namor roughly appears in ten comics per year, most of his appearences being guest appearences.

SO, I am going with what he has done in comics. Which is a conclusive proof.

We might as well ignore ALL feats of characters before 1990...

Not at all. What you need to remember is that comics were written differently in the 60's/early 70's. Towards the end of the 70's they got more realistic and characters were represented in a fashion relatively similar to how they are today in comparison. You need to remember that Dc had Crisis on Infinite Earths to get rid of all of that far fetched BS. All of that Pre Crisis type rubbish. Marvel hasnt had one until now ( House of M). You cant show me a recent source showing Namor pulling off what you claim he is capable of because there probably isnt one. Comics have got more realistic. My bio is from the late 80's and the figures reflect the more realistic presentations of characters. All of your 60's scans are akin to a pre crisis era for Marvel. All characters were written differently then. No excuses provide some recent scans and prove me wrong. Or better still lets see how Namor turns out after House of M.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Contest of Champions?

You mean the one where Gambit beat Gladiator?

You are meaning a different Contest of Champions, aren't you?

Wait...you are saying that Storm is faster then her bio states...

And Namor is faster too...

They are both Class 3...

Where do you get this official opinion that Storm is faster then Namor?

Because comics sure don't show it...

Not all of Contest of Champion battles were badly written. Thats just an excuse fans used when theyre characters didnt fare as well as they would have liked or when characters they dislike are portrayed too good for their liking.

The official opinion comes from the bios which are official products of Marvel. Showing scans from Marvels own "Pre-Crisis" times really isnt good enough. When you have some recent scans showing Namor pulling off the rubbish that you claim, then we''ll talk.

They are both class 3 that incorporates Namors apparent 40 mph and Storms 300 mph. Doesnt mean they fly at the same speed mate. Just that theyre placed in the same cateory is all. Both characters imo can fly faster than those values given however according to Marvel Storm is faster. None of your scans show otherwise. Take a step back ignore your love for the character and look at what im saying. Your scans are far from conclusive and most are written in a period where all characters are portrayed completely differentlt to they are now.

None of your scans shows that he can fly faster than or even as fast as Storm. Fster than his stated 40 mph? Yes. But not as fast as Storm im afraid.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What you dont seem to understand is that neither of the characters abilities on panel are 100% accurately represented in the handbooks however from the higher speed rating given to Storm you know that in the eyes of Marvel she is faster. Just like Namor is shown in comics fighting even defeating the hulk who in the handbooks comes out on top stats wise than Namor. The handbooks are just a guideline but they also provide hierarchy. Storm is faster in the air than Namor according to Marvel and until we see him outpacing something or someone Storm has been shown not to, or they have a confrontation, you cant conclusively say otherwise. Hyperbole doesnt cut it.
GS that handbook is really old.
Don't be so much annoying man.
Namor has speed feats, the 60 mph traveling speed is outdated as info, now he's faster, Marvel maked him faster, in water he was able to swim against Hulk and hit him full strenght causing tidal waves and making Hulk changing back to banner.

Im gone for a few hours. I'll come back to deal with your inevitable protestations.

Originally posted by K3VIL
GS that handbook is really old.
Don't be so much annoying man.
Namor has speed feats, the 60 mph traveling speed is outdated as info, now he's faster, Marvel maked him faster, in water he was able to swim against Hulk and hit him full strenght causing tidal waves and making Hulk changing back to banner.

The handbook isnt as old as DC's scans. Thats what you need to make note of. Characters were written totally different in the 60's. Marvel never had a Crisis to get rid of that rubbish they just started writing characters differently. My handbook entry from the late 80's is reflective of that. Ive asked him to come up with some scans showing Namor pulling off the feats he claims hes capable of recently. He cant and we both know that. If someone stating a different opinion to you is something you find annoying then a forum isnt the best place for you to visit.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im gone for a few hours. I'll come back to deal with your inevitable protestations.

Back soon DC. Be good if i came back to some recent scans.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Chill son just playing with ya. I would take u though

Nah.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
None of your scans show Namor to be faster than Storm. Faster than his hgandbook entry yeah i'll agree with that but you have no evidence to say that. On top of that Storm has been shown to be faster than her handbook entry as well. Not one of your scans show Namor is faster than Storm. They show him sneaking up on Sunfire whose cruising speed would be significantly less than his 150 mph max. Does that sound like a gd speed feat for Namor? lol.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif

Sneaking up? Sunfire sees him coming and blasts Namor who dodges it with ease.

It's a speed feat that shows that handbooks are wrong. Which is what I have been trying to prove here. Only thing you have saying that Namor is faster then Storm is handbooks. Which are not always right. Like in this case.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yes and dolphins can be mistaken for great white sharks. Whats your point? The men were flying in a missile testing zone then all of a sudden they see an object come out of nowhere and fly towards them. Mistaken identity thats all. In form he looked like a missile until he got closer and that was discounted. Nothing was mentioned about his speed whatsoever. MOOT point.

BUT if a 40 MPH thing would fly towards then they would not test missiles. Handbook is wrong.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But you havent though. None of your examples are sufficient. You have Namor sneaking up on a cruising Sunfire who at top speed is rated at 150mph. Thats nothing.

You have a case of mistaken identity, with no mention of speed whatsoever. You have Namor flying a weapon up into the sky. Cap M joins him and together they fly it up to orbit. We know conclusively that Namor cant fly at escape velocity (or anywhere near it) and we know he cant breather in space. So one can infer that Captain M helped him or that the whole affair was just more 60's rubbish which contradicts comic affairs and characters reprsentations of the last 20 years. Ive noticed how none of your scans of Namor are recent. All from said period. I wonder why LOL.

You have an out of context pic of namor flying along with SS. We know SS i sfaster than Namor so what point are you trying to make by posting it? They were teammates theyre flying to a mission together. Flying off at light speed leaving Namor behind is hardly team spirit is it? Youve got nothing. Nothing there shows anything of the sort. No conclusive evidence whatsoever.

1.He is not sneaking up. Sunfire notices him.

2. Namor is still flying fast in the missile picture. And reaches the coast of America in minutes.

--"Namor wastes little time! He becomes a meteor, a lighting bolt, a streak, across the midday sky...speeding toward the coastline of America!"--

Clearly indicating that he can go FAST.

3. Namor is still helping Captain Marvel to fly the weapon up, so he is flying with very fast speeds.

And Namor can hold his breath in space for MINUTES.

4. "You have an out of context pic of namor flying along with SS. We know SS i sfaster than Namor so what point are you trying to make by posting it?"

Showing that he flies faster then handbooks state.

5. "Ive noticed how none of your scans of Namor are recent. All from said period. I wonder why LOL."

Might be because most of his appearences are from said period. What makes it rubbish anyway? Namor flying faster then handbooks state?

That is no rubbish, you know, since handbooks are wrong in many things.

Namor was flying faster then 40 MPH before handbooks were even created. That's where you notice that the people that wrote the handbooks haven't studied him at ALL.

6. I don't have proof Namor being faster then Storm (And that is not I am trying to proof anyway). But you don't have any proof showing that Storm is faster either. And in arial fight, Namor's superior reflexes (Sufficient of grabbing missiles from air and dodging torpedos with EASE, jumping from meteor to metor...probably ten-twenty times better reflexes then Storm can dream of having) and his WAAAY greater experience in flying (I don't even need to say this) makes Namor Storm's superior in air.

Nothing you can do to it, really.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not at all. What you need to remember is that comics were written differently in the 60's/early 70's. Towards the end of the 70's they got more realistic and characters were represented in a fashion relatively similar to how they are today in comparison. You need to remember that Dc had Crisis on Infinite Earths to get rid of all of that far fetched BS. All of that Pre Crisis type rubbish. Marvel hasnt had one until now ( House of M). You cant show me a recent source showing Namor pulling off what you claim he is capable of because there probably isnt one. Comics have got more realistic. My bio is from the late 80's and the figures reflect the more realistic presentations of characters. All of your 60's scans are akin to a pre crisis era for Marvel. All characters were written differently then. No excuses provide some recent scans and prove me wrong. Or better still lets see how Namor turns out after House of M.

There isn't recent source because he rarely appears in comics anymore. So I am going with the feats he has done.

Just because something was made in 60's it doesn't mean it's rubbish.

And you are right, Marvel doesn't have crisis.

That is why everything after Golden Age is canon.

Characters of moden age still remember the stuff they did at Silver Age.

The 60's scans are sufficient proof. Just because Namor does things better then your beloved handbooks state, doesn't mean that they are rubbish.

Sorry, but you can't just say that some comics are not sufficient enough of proof just because they are made in some year.

DC had Crisis. Marvel didn't. All my scans are canon.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ive asked him to come up with some scans showing Namor pulling off the feats he claims hes capable of recently. He cant and we both know that.

I've said the reason to this multiple times.

according to the 2004 Handbooks Storm can fly at 300mph while it says Namor can only swim up to 60 mph and can also fly (no flight speed is mentioned)

i think we all know Namor can swim faster than that.

Namor:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2481/namor0lo.th.jpg

Storm:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9691/stormr3nl.th.jpg

Another reason why handbooks shouldn't be trusted...

Two things, first off I'm not saying that namor isn't fast, but you really can't use the "being mistaken as a polaris missle. because this comment is made by people who made the mistake, not a computer or some such. You have to remember that while Namor is flying at them they are flying towards him. So there speed towards him should be factored in. It's not like he's running along side a polaris missle. But don't you think that if he were traveling as fast as a polaris missle that the people in the plane wouldn't have time to react? Unless they are reacting faster than a polaris missle in order to note that it's flying AT them?

Secondly I find it rather odd how selectively the handbooks are applied on these boards. Someone can provide picture after picture of some characters accomplishing feats above what their stats say. And these people are called "fanboys" while other people are accepted to be right in the instance. Seriously what's up with that hypocrasy?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Secondly I find it rather odd how selectively the handbooks are applied on these boards. Someone can provide picture after picture of some characters accomplishing feats above what their stats say. And these people are called "fanboys" while other people are accepted to be right in the instance. Seriously what's up with that hypocrasy?

it depends on which feats are being used.... some are obviously well outside the characters abilities .....and the handbooks generally suck

Originally posted by Scoobless
it depends on which feats are being used.... some are obviously well outside the characters abilities .....and the handbooks generally suck I guess then the question is what is considered to be outside of a characters abilities. Who get's to decide such things?

Yes the handbooks generally do suck, but the problem is still that they are still selectivly used.

If Spider-Man would suddenly hurt Hulk with his punches, or knock him out, it would be PIS.

If Wolverine would grab bullets out from air, it would be PIS.

If Namor would fly to Mars in five seconds, it would be PIS.

But if someone does things like that for their entire time in comics, someone can't just disregard them "Because it happened in 60's".

Originally posted by Creshosk
Two things, first off I'm not saying that namor isn't fast, but you really can't use the "being mistaken as a polaris missle. because this comment is made by people who made the mistake, not a computer or some such.

Here is Namor being mistaken as fighter jet. There is radar, so it is with computers too.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30803570831.gif&s=x11

On the same issue he flew to USA to Antarctica in very short time.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Here is Namor being mistaken as fighter jet. There is radar, so it is with computers too.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30803570831.gif&s=x11

On the same issue he flew to USA to Antarctica in very short time.

As aforementioned, most of your scans are from the 60's when all comics were written very very differently. As comics got more realistic in the 70's DC had Crisis to free themselves of all of the over the top hyperbole saturated stuff from previous eras. Marvel never bothered to do that but instead just started writing their characters and comics in a more toned down and realistic fashion. The handbooks came out and reflected this.

You cannot produce a comic book scan from the last 20 YEARS which shows Namor pulling off feats similar to any of your 60's scans and you and all who read this thread know that. If Namor hasnt been written like that for such a long amount of time and never will be because of a change of the times how can you use his feats from such a period and compare them to characters written after that period?

The same thing goes for Hercules, he's never written as great as he was in the 60's yet his fans like Olympian except this and deal with the limitations imposed on their character because of a different era of comic book writing. I really think you should do the same DC, no offence. Or you could come up with some scans showing Namor pulling off what you claim he is capable of.

All you have here shows him being faster than the 40 mph his bio states. But when you note that this bio was written after your 60's scans and that characters were written differently after your scans, you cant use the argument that the handbook is wrong. Youve just got outdated scans lol.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As aforementioned, most of your scans are from the 60's when all comics were written very very differently. As comics got more realistic in the 70's DC had Crisis to free themselves of all of the over the top hyperbole saturated stuff from previous eras. Marvel never bothered to do that but instead just started writing their characters and comics in a more toned down and realistic fashion. The handbooks came out and reflected this.

Silver Age is still canon. You can't take off those comics just because they appeared in 60's. I'm sorry, but there is nothing showing Namor COULDN'T do stuff like that nowadays. He's gotten more powerful, and if you really want to use the handbooks, they reflect it too (Class 85 to Class 100) Namor's flight speed in handbooks nowadays is not even mentioned. I am sorry, but my scans show what Namor is capable. He has never been toned down.

Even Handbooks have increased his strenght.

You realize that most of the scans I have showed are from 70's-80's period?

Do you see a rule that says "All comic books feats have to be from the last 20 years or they are not valid". Is there a official word from Marvel that says "Yeah...umm, forgot everything that hasn't happened in the last 20 years...It has to be at least from year 1980. 1979 or 1969 doesn't work, sorry."

No there isn't. You know that. There is no "Pre-Crisis" Namor, because there hasn't been crisis in Marvel. Namor has shown that kind of flying ability since his first appearence, and you can't say it's not valid because it happened in 60's. Sorry, but that's just it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You cannot produce a comic book scan from the last 20 YEARS which shows Namor pulling off feats similar to any of your 60's scans and you and all who read this thread know that. If Namor hasnt been written like that for such a long amount of time and never will be because of a change of the times how can you use his feats from such a period and compare them to characters written after that period?

How many times I have to say this. I can't have scans of Namor's flight speed...because he rarely appears in comics these days. Even when he got his own series, he had his ability to fly for three issues, then it was taken away for the rest of the series.

Nothing shows that he isn't written in same way. His personality is same. His strength is same. His durability is same.

Why wouldn't his speed be? Because it would make him as fast as Storm?

You are being very biased here...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The same thing goes for Hercules, he's never written as great as he was in the 60's yet his fans like Olympian except this and deal with the limitations imposed on their character because of a different era of comic book writing. I really think you should do the same DC, no offence. Or you could come up with some scans showing Namor pulling off what you claim he is capable of.

No and the reason to that is showed above.

In his own series Namor lost the ability to fly after few issues. Kind of hard to show flying feats, isn't it?

Rest of his appearences are guest ones then. So I am using the feats he has shown to do. No matter what year it is, he is not Superman who has Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis incarnations. He is the same character he was at 60's.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All you have here shows him being faster than the 40 mph his bio states. But when you note that this bio was written after your 60's scans and that characters were written differently after your scans, you cant use the argument that the handbook is wrong. Youve just got outdated scans lol.

70's scans, actually. Only scan that is before year 1969, is the scan I showed at the beginning of this thread.

Rest is 1969-1979.

But...since I know you won't give up, here is some scans. 1990.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808480841.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808484846.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808495556.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808522776.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808525411.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808533715.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808550542.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808554319.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808563044.gif&s=x11

That is the time when Namor is weakened...after those issues he lost the ability to fly for some time.

And even if he would be only able to fly 40 MPH, that would be 17 meters in second. 8,5 in half a second...way to fast for someone with human reflexes react. By the time the impulses from Storms brain have made her move, Namor would have already crossed the distance between them, going moving before Storm because of his increased reflexes.

And that would be with 40 MPH.

We need to be realistic in every sense of the word, don't we?

Marvel didn't have a a Crisis as a single moment when they stopped having them do off the wall shit, but they did take to more realism.. GS is right, imo. It's increasingly obvious looking across their titles. Look at Hulk's old stuff, for example, then look at him now..
And while they may still REFER to things from back then, and remember them..
it's no different than DC still refering/being affected by things that happened Pre Crisis.. such as Sinestro's story, and even Krona for example.

So every single fight/feat that hasn't appeared in 80's or above should be ignored?

All the X-Men fights? Juggernaut feats? Hulk feats? Classic fights between characters? Avenger feats? Silver Surfer? Strange? Everything should just be ignored?

Whatever you say...I will not be doing that.

------------------

Have you noted that GS hasn't posted a single picture about Storm's flying speed here?

Or anywhere?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So every single fight/feat that hasn't appeared in 80's or above should be ignored?

All the X-Men fights? Juggernaut feats? Hulk feats? Classic fights between characters? Avenger feats? Silver Surfer? Strange? Everything should just be ignored?

Whatever you say...I will not be doing that.

------------------

Have you noted that GS hasn't posted a single picture about Storm's flying speed here?

Or anywhere? Not 80's on up...
But yeah, most BEFORE that should at least not be taken at face value.
Though they were fun to read.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Silver Age is still canon. You can't take off those comics just because they appeared in 60's. I'm sorry, but there is nothing showing Namor COULDN'T do stuff like that nowadays. He's gotten more powerful, and if you really want to use the handbooks, they reflect it too (Class 85 to Class 100) Namor's flight speed in handbooks nowadays is not even mentioned. I am sorry, but my scans show what Namor is capable. He has never been toned down.

Even Handbooks have increased his strenght.

You realize that most of the scans I have showed are from 70's-80's period?

Do you see a rule that says "All comic books feats have to be from the last 20 years or they are not valid". Is there a official word from Marvel that says "Yeah...umm, forgot everything that hasn't happened in the last 20 years...It has to be at least from year 1980. 1979 or 1969 doesn't work, sorry."

No there isn't. You know that. There is no "Pre-Crisis" Namor, because there hasn't been crisis in Marvel. Namor has shown that kind of flying ability since his first appearence, and you can't say it's not valid because it happened in 60's. Sorry, but that's just it.



How many times I have to say this. I can't have scans of Namor's flight speed...because he rarely appears in comics these days. Even when he got his own series, he had his ability to fly for three issues, then it was taken away for the rest of the series.

Nothing shows that he isn't written in same way. His personality is same. His strength is same. His durability is same.

Why wouldn't his speed be? Because it would make him as fast as Storm?

You are being very biased here...



No and the reason to that is showed above.

In his own series Namor lost the ability to fly after few issues. Kind of hard to show flying feats, isn't it?

Rest of his appearences are guest ones then. So I am using the feats he has shown to do. No matter what year it is, he is not Superman who has Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis incarnations. He is the same character he was at 60's.



70's scans, actually. Only scan that is before year 1969, is the scan I showed at the beginning of this thread.

Rest is 1969-1979.

But...since I know you won't give up, here is some scans. 1990.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808480841.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808484846.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808495556.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808522776.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808525411.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808533715.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808550542.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808554319.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808563044.gif&s=x11

That is the time when Namor is weakened...after those issues he lost the ability to fly for some time.

Whatever you say, regardless of your denial these new set of scans dont show that Namor can fly significantly faster than 40 mph. The first half of them he's swimming. The woman refers to his speed moving through the water and she makes no comparison to superhuman beings. She says nothing to let you know shes taking superhuman beings into consideration. Therefore Namor is moving through the water faster than anything in the animal kingdom should be able to. As we know Namor swims at 60 mph her comments hold true. Again insufficient scans.

He's then flying through a city and talks of how he wont get identified thanks to his speed and the fact that theres loads of flying heroes in New York. Wheres the speed feat there? Again insufficent.

All of your dated scans where Namor is doing something ridiculous come from a period where writing was different and yet none of them conclusively show he's faster than the handbook entrys (which came later) show him to be. You keep coming up with excuses saying that theres been too few appearances from Namor. Well what about the recent Defenders series theres been, what about The Order? Theres been more over the last 15 year sas well. Why arent you so quick to show scansfrom them? Because they dont present Namor in as great a fashion as you'd like.

None of your scans were sufficient and can all be explained away. Its not me being biased. Look back through this thread, many others have dismissed your "evidence". Even the scans ive called dated all of the 60's ones are insuffient, none of the 70's ones are sufficent as I and others have pointed out. Come up with the goods sor give it a rest DC.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And even if he would be only able to fly 40 MPH, that would be 17 meters in second. 8,5 in half a second...way to fast for someone with human reflexes react. By the time the impulses from Storms brain have made her move, Namor would have already crossed the distance between them, going moving before Storm because of his increased reflexes.

And that would be with 40 MPH.

We need to be realistic in every sense of the word, don't we?

What nonsense. Cars move faster than that and i know that given a decent distance any average person can dodge an approaching car at even greater speeds.

This is pathetic DC. Youre still caught up over that Sub Mariner Vs Storm thread arent you?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So every single fight/feat that hasn't appeared in 80's or above should be ignored?

All the X-Men fights? Juggernaut feats? Hulk feats? Classic fights between characters? Avenger feats? Silver Surfer? Strange? Everything should just be ignored?

Whatever you say...I will not be doing that.

------------------

Have you noted that GS hasn't posted a single picture about Storm's flying speed here?

Or anywhere?

I stated an instance an Xmarks confirmed that it existed by commenting. I then talked about the instance in Contest of Champions 2. However i'll post some scans by tomorrow to end this farce of a thread once and for all.

Farce of thread?

You take everything personally, do you?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As we know Namor swims at 60 mph

he swims a lot faster than that

So, what should be the term for when we are talking about Marvel Characters before year 1980?

"Pre-Modern Age?"

"Classic?"

What about nowadays?

"Post-Silver Age?"

"Toned down?"

Of course, there should be special entry:

"Going-by-handbooks"

I can clearly see it in my mind..."Wolverine going-by-handbooks VS Modern Age Human Torch".

Originally posted by Scoobless
he swims a lot faster than that

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8007/namorfeat265gs.gif

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/7674/avengers003173hf.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1133/namorfeat341pp.gif

Wait, that was the "Pre-Modern Age" Namor. Doesn't apply.

How about this, now it is "Post-Silver Age" one.

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7272/namorfeat691ix.gif

I take it he beats the Abomination?

Yupp.

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/345/namorfeat686lx.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7272/namorfeat691ix.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/4690/namorfeat702bo.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/1112/namorfeat71kopio2wz.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/9911/namorfeat724zw.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/9374/namorfeat737jo.gif

Namor was about to finish him.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Farce of thread?

You take everything personally, do you?

Not at all. I was just stating my opinion.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8007/namorfeat265gs.gif

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/7674/avengers003173hf.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1133/namorfeat341pp.gif

Wait, that was the "Pre-Modern Age" Namor. Doesn't apply.

How about this, now it is "Post-Silver Age" one.

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7272/namorfeat691ix.gif

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yupp.

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/345/namorfeat686lx.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7272/namorfeat691ix.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/4690/namorfeat702bo.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/1112/namorfeat71kopio2wz.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/9911/namorfeat724zw.gif

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/9374/namorfeat737jo.gif

Namor was about to finish him.

So what do any of these have to do with Namors flight speed? Surely we dont need another Namor respect thread?

My point was that showing 60's scans and presenting them as proof of what Namor can do now is just misleading because characters were written totally differently then. From the mid 70's onwards comics gradually became more and more realistic. So scans from those times onwards are more representative of where characters are at now. The fact is that none of your scans from whatever period have depicted him as being significantly faster than the handbooks state in terms of flight speed. None of them conclusively show he's as fast as and certainly not faster than Storm. That was the whole point of this thread. The beginning post was a bit of a give away. Thats why i call this thread a farce and it shows you take this too seriously. That thread was over ages ago. Let it go. You dont have sufficient eviodence to back up your claims.

Ignore this post.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So what do any of these have to do with Namors flight speed? Surely we dont need another Namor respect thread?

I asked to see them

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...1.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...6.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...6.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...6.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...1.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...5.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...2.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...9.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/3...4.gif&s=x11

none of those work

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


Whatever you say, regardless of your denial these new set of scans dont show that Namor can fly significantly faster than 40 mph. The first half of them he's swimming. The woman refers to his speed moving through the water and she makes no comparison to superhuman beings. She says nothing to let you know shes taking superhuman beings into consideration. Therefore Namor is moving through the water faster than anything in the animal kingdom should be able to. As we know Namor swims at 60 mph her comments hold true. Again insufficient scans.

Did you see the speed he was getting off the water? That was fast.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He's then flying through a city and talks of how he wont get identified thanks to his speed and the fact that theres loads of flying heroes in New York. Wheres the speed feat there? Again insufficent.

So...getting from another side of Manhattan to another in few seconds isn't a speed feat?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All of your dated scans where Namor is doing something ridiculous come from a period where writing was different and yet none of them conclusively show he's faster than the handbook entrys (which came later) show him to be. You keep coming up with excuses saying that theres been too few appearances from Namor. Well what about the recent Defenders series theres been, what about The Order? Theres been more over the last 15 year sas well. Why arent you so quick to show scansfrom them? Because they dont present Namor in as great a fashion as you'd like.

Yes, everything from 60's is ridicolous...all the classic stories are absolutely stupid.

LOL, the new Defenders? Sorry...that's is a comedy series. More talk the fighting. Namor doesn't fight very much in those, and thus far all of the fights have been ground based.

Order? The evil defenders moved around being teleported by Dr. Strange, but here's a picture of Namor fighting jets. I can't wait to see what kind of excuse you can think about this to make it seem that Namor didn't take them out with flight speed...

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30811371830.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
None of your scans were sufficient and can all be explained away. Its not me being biased. Look back through this thread, many others have dismissed your "evidence". Even the scans ive called dated all of the 60's ones are insuffient, none of the 70's ones are sufficent as I and others have pointed out. Come up with the goods sor give it a rest DC.


Ah yes, I will "come up with goods", just like you have.

You have posted countless pictures showing that Storm is significantly faster then Namor.

Originally posted by Scoobless
none of those work

Here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808480841.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808484846.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808495556.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808522776.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808525411.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808533715.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808550542.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808554319.gif&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808563044.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
From the mid 70's onwards comics gradually became more and more realistic. So scans from those times onwards are more representative of where characters are at now.

Yes, I see...when Storm gets a power increase to use sun lasers, jovian pressure fields and suck the air out of peoples lungs (which doesn't have to do anything with weather, how many times you have seen a jovian pressure field on earth?) it's completely realistic. But If Namor could do the same things he did at 60's...ridicolous! Outdated!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What nonsense. Cars move faster than that and i know that given a decent distance any average person can dodge an approaching car at even greater speeds.

This is pathetic DC. Youre still caught up over that Sub Mariner Vs Storm thread arent you?

And what will that distance be?

I am not caught up in that thread...you never won it, though.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


My point was that showing 60's scans and presenting them as proof of what Namor can do now is just misleading because characters were written totally differently then. From the mid 70's onwards comics gradually became more and more realistic. So scans from those times onwards are more representative of where characters are at now. The fact is that none of your scans from whatever period have depicted him as being significantly faster than the handbooks state in terms of flight speed. None of them conclusively show he's as fast as and certainly not faster than Storm. That was the whole point of this thread. The beginning post was a bit of a give away. Thats why i call this thread a farce and it shows you take this too seriously. That thread was over ages ago. Let it go. You dont have sufficient eviodence to back up your claims.

By the way, where is it stated that scans from some year are not sufficient evidence in these forums? I would like to see it, so we could inform other members too.



Therefore, all the scans I have showed are canon, because Namor has done the feats more then once. Way more.

Modern Age Comic books:

(1988)

Here is Namor basically doing this feat:

http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/2802/namorfeat220rx.gif

Only that he does it when he is about 18...and with ease...

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2245/namorfeat650mp.gif

So his strength is same nowadays.

Namor dodging a torpedo:

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5183/namorfeat660vq.gif

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/1045/namorfeat671oy.gif

Superhuman reflexes, same.

More feats posted when I get more comics.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Did you see the speed he was getting off the water? That was fast.


So...getting from another side of Manhattan to another in few seconds isn't a speed feat?

Ive seen Shamu cause a splash like that at SeaWorld. Insufficent.

Considering the size of Manhattan and the fact that Namor is flying in the air with no obstructions and no forced path NO its not really a speed feat at all. Not of the scale you think and want it to be. Doesnt show he's significantly faster than his bio stats. Doesnt show he's as fast as Storm and definitely doesnt show hes faster than her.


Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yes, everything from 60's is ridicolous...all the classic stories are absolutely stupid.

Never said that and never meant that. Just that you need to ignore clear plot devices and over the top feats which were inherent to writing of that period. Stuff he pulled off once or twice in the 60's and has never again since. Regardless of what i said about the 60's none of the scans you've shown have showed him being as fast as Storm.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
LOL, the new Defenders? Sorry...that's is a comedy series. More talk the fighting. Namor doesn't fight very much in those, and thus far all of the fights have been ground based.

Order? The evil defenders moved around being teleported by Dr. Strange, but here's a picture of Namor fighting jets. I can't wait to see what kind of excuse you can think about this to make it seem that Namor didn't take them out with flight speed...

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30811371830.gif&s=x11

The air fighters are flying over the heroes closing in for the attack. They are hardly streaking through the sky DC. Namor out of nowhere flies from underneath and bursts through one of the jets. Considering the jets were closing in for the attack and staying within the effective range of their weapons, considering we dont see how far away Namor was from the jets and how high they were circling before the attack this is hardly sufficient proof.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ah yes, I will "come up with goods", just like you have.

You have posted countless pictures showing that Storm is significantly faster then Namor.



Im not the one who needs to prove anything here. Thats what i believe you are forgetting. Youre the one who has created a thread in order to hype up Namor. The scans youve provided have failed to reflect your claims. The handbooks are a guideline. The characters can do at least what the handbook states. So we know Storm flies at least at 300 mph. You havent even proven Namors significantly faster than his bio stats. So what do i have to prove exactly? Show conclusively that Namors faster than 300 mph and then its my job to show Storm surpassing her bio stats.

Good luck

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yes, I see...when Storm gets a power increase to use sun lasers, jovian pressure fields and suck the air out of peoples lungs (which doesn't have to do anything with weather, how many times you have seen a jovian pressure field on earth?) it's completely realistic. But If Namor could do the same things he did at 60's...ridicolous! Outdated!

Storms pulling off that stuff now. Theyre feats of the current comic age. Youre trying to present stuff from the 60's as feats he can freely pull of now when he hasnt done for over 20 years. Thats the difference.

Once or twice?!

url]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11

More like every issue he is in...

And none of the scans you have showed (wait, you haven't) show that Storm is faster then Namor.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
By the way, where is it stated that scans from some year are not sufficient evidence in these forums? I would like to see it, so we could inform other members too.



Therefore, all the scans I have showed are canon, because Namor has done the feats more then once. Way more.

Going by that the scan which isnt valid is the one where he helps Captain Marvel take that weapon out into orbit because he's never been shown to be able to do that since. That was your only scan which showed him flying significantly faster than his bio stats and even then its debatable whether he wasnt aided by Captain Marvel.

The others can and have been explained away by myself and other posters and didnt show him as significantly beyond his bio stats so theyre irrelevant anyway.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Once or twice?!

url]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11

More like every issue he is in...

And none of the scans you have showed (wait, you haven't) show that Storm is faster then Namor.

What youre not getting is that im talking about ridiculous feats such as where he took that weapon into orbit. Focus on that. That was the only scan which showed him beyond the bio stats in terms of speed.

The other scans havent shown him to be significantly beyond the stats in terms of speed and so dont matter anyway. Those type of things i have no issue with you saying he can do them as they dont completely contradict his stats or recent appearances. Theyre irrelevant and theyve been dismissed by myself and other posters.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler


And none of the scans you have showed (wait, you haven't) show that Storm is faster then Namor.

Dont you understand that i dont have to come up with anything until you show Namor in multiple appearances being faster than 300 mph. You havent even shown him being significantly beyond his speed rating as you claim he is so what do i have to prove?

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
Sunfire and Namor both said that Sunfire is faster. . . I'm not sure what you're trying to show in this battle situation, if it had been a race it might have been more understandable, but as in order to battle one has to match speed, I doubt either combatant was pushing themself to their fastest flying speed. As over shooting the opponent isn't very conductive to beating the other.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gifWhat does this one even show?

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gifAn observer is not the best way to messure flight speed. . . There is also the usual superhero hype and hulk isn't exactly the best to use as far as super speed goes as both Wolverine and Spiderman can bounce around him fairly well. And that shows that their is a range of speed that even wolverine is in that can out manuever the hulk.

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gifReaction speed, but not flight speed. had he been racing the missles to catch them you'd have a point. . . But catching something that's coming at you doesn't show much, as baseball player have superb reactions as well.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
Didn't we cover this one? If he had been going as fast as a polaris missle there is no way they could have reacted in time, they mistook him for a missle because he came out where there is normally missles coming out. He was also flying at them at the same time they were flying at him. That cuts down on the amount of time available before "impact" would have occured.

This is sort of like that one math problem, if train A leaves Station A traveling toward Station B at 60 mph and Train B leaves Station B toward station A at 30 mph and the stations are 120 miles apart, how when and where will the trains meet?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11
The fact that the woman with hiram saw him, and was in that position at that moment actually detracts from the speed feat. If he could travel as fast as you are making it out wouldn't he be long past before she could say anything? If she saw him at all?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont you understand that i dont have to come up with anything until you show Namor in multiple appearances being faster than 300 mph. You havent even shown him being significantly beyond his speed rating as you claim he is so what do i have to prove?

Sure.

He goes significantly faster then 40 MPH here:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7484/namorfeat92mc.gif

here:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif

here:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif

here:

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808522776.gif&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808525411.gif&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808554319.gif&s=x11

here he is catching Atlantean flying jet:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815510937.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815520551.gif&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815550085.gif&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816230680.gif&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816273776.gif&s=x11

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816295735.gif&s=x11

and here.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816310732.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
Sunfire and Namor both said that Sunfire is faster. . . I'm not sure what you're trying to show in this battle situation, if it had been a race it might have been more understandable, but as in order to battle one has to match speed, I doubt either combatant was pushing themself to their fastest flying speed. As over shooting the opponent isn't very conductive to beating the other.

It was really to show that he was able to fly faster then handbooks say. If he would have constantly moved with 40 MPH, would Sunfire be suprised all the time?

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gifWhat does this one even show?

Speedblitz.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gifAn observer is not the best way to messure flight speed. . . There is also the usual superhero hype and hulk isn't exactly the best to use as far as super speed goes as both Wolverine and Spiderman can bounce around him fairly well. And that shows that their is a range of speed that even wolverine is in that can out manuever the hulk.

Would he had really said "He has the power---the speed to be invicible!" If he had gone with 40 MPH.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gifReaction speed, but not flight speed. had he been racing the missles to catch them you'd have a point. . . But catching something that's coming at you doesn't show much, as baseball player have superb reactions as well.

Well, yeah, but he did catch up with that plane.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
Didn't we cover this one? If he had been going as fast as a polaris missle there is no way they could have reacted in time, they mistook him for a missle because he came out where there is normally missles coming out. He was also flying at them at the same time they were flying at him. That cuts down on the amount of time available before "impact" would have occured.

This is sort of like that one math problem, if train A leaves Station A traveling toward Station B at 60 mph and Train B leaves Station B toward station A at 30 mph and the stations are 120 miles apart, how when and where will the trains meet?

Ok, you are right. I just copyed and pasted it. Still going more then 40 MPH, as you can see when he is leaving the place.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11
The fact that the woman with hiram saw him, and was in that position at that moment actually detracts from the speed feat. If he could travel as fast as you are making it out wouldn't he be long past before she could say anything? If she saw him at all?

He arrived at coast of America in short time. He was in the middle of Atlantic Ocean when he left. (Old capital of Atlantis)

Namor can fly over 100mph with one ankle wing tied behind his back.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7484/namorfeat92mc.gif
Faster than human reaction and the speed of someone aiming. . .

here:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
Covered that

here:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
Still waiting for clearification.

here:

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
Covered that

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
And that

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11
and that

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808522776.gif&s=x11
This one doesn't really show anything.

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808525411.gif&s=x11Nor this one.

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808554319.gif&s=x11
Nor that

here he is catching Atlantean flying jet:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815510937.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815520551.gif&s=x11

After going back into the water. . . how fast does one of those jets fly?


here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815550085.gif&s=x11 CIS on Spiderman's part as Namor pointed out.

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816230680.gif&s=x11
An atlantean missle. . . but from the first panel it was in it didn't appear to be flying straight very well. . .

But this is a better example that your other missle picture. . .

How fast do they fly?

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816273776.gif&s=x11 This also really doesn't show anything.

here:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816295735.gif&s=x11
He caught and threw a missle. . doesn't really show flying speed.

and here.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816310732.gif&s=x11
This deoesn't really show anything.

Most of those scans he's just flying, there isn't really anything to show his speed in those. . .just him moving around with no time frame. . . You can probably do that for any character, but that doesn't mean that they move that fast. . . Heck I got a pretty good one of Jubilee moving around, but she doesn't have superhuman speed. . .

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It was really to show that he was able to fly faster then handbooks say. If he would have constantly moved with 40 MPH, would Sunfire be suprised all the time? All a surprise is is something unexpected happening. Sunfire underestimating him isn't a sign of speed. And as I said if it had been a race it would ghave been better, as in a fight you have to limit your speed as to not over shoot the target.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Speedblitz.b Who hulk?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Would he had really said "He has the power---the speed to be invicible!" If he had gone with 40 MPH. Why not? He also mentioned power, and you can be invincible with power even if you don't have speed. I'm not saying that he's limited to 40 mph I'm just saying these don't really show his speed very well.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, yeah, but he did catch up with that plane. The latter scan where he threw the missle back? Didn't look like he did much to catch it there. . .

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ok, you are right. I just copyed and pasted it. Still going more then 40 MPH, as you can see when he is leaving the place.We don't have a speed measurment there, so we can't say if he is and if he is how much more.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He arrived at coast of America in short time. He was in the middle of Atlantic Ocean when he left. (Old capital of Atlantis) With no timeframe we don't know how long it took, so can't measure the speed here.

In the old seventies Invaders series he caught up with and had dogfights with multiple axis fighter aeroplanes. his fast

Thank you Cresh. I was just in the middle of replying and i refreshed and saw you got the situation handled.

DC your scans really arent good enough. Most of them are completely useless i.e the ones which just show Namor flying with no point to reference his speed, a lot have been dismissed previously, a few are battle situations and are more about reaction times. Your best direction is to get some stats on those Atlanetan jets the same models shown in the scans.

Either way you havent shown he's significantly greater than his stats and nothing here says hes anywhere near as fast as Storm. He even says that Sunfire is faster and Sunfire flies at 150 mph LOL.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7484/namorfeat92mc.gif
Faster than human reaction and the speed of someone aiming. . .

Dodging them.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4434/namorfeat211qk.gif
Covered that

Flying faster then 40 MPH.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/6113/namorfeat314gc.gif
Still waiting for clearification.

Speedblitz.

Originally posted by Creshosk


http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7403/namorspeedfeats4wj.gif
Covered that
Faster then 40 MPH.

Originally posted by Creshosk
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614041322.jpg&s=x11
And that

Same

Originally posted by Creshosk

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30614074861.jpg&s=x11
and that

same

Originally posted by Creshosk


http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808522776.gif&s=x11
This one doesn't really show anything.
Flying through Manhattan in seconds.

Originally posted by Creshosk




http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808525411.gif&s=x11Nor this one.

Flying fast upwards.

Originally posted by Creshosk


http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30808554319.gif&s=x11
Nor that

Same.

Originally posted by Creshosk



http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815510937.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815520551.gif&s=x11

After going back into the water. . . how fast does one of those jets fly?

That's him flying with full vitality. It's valid even though he goes into water.

Atlantean tech is superior to human one, so I suppose it's going very fast.

Originally posted by Creshosk



http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30815550085.gif&s=x11 CIS on Spiderman's part as Namor pointed out.

But he still speedblitzed Spider-Man.

Originally posted by Creshosk



http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816230680.gif&s=x11
An atlantean missle. . . but from the first panel it was in it didn't appear to be flying straight very well. . .

But this is a better example that your other missle picture. . .

How fast do they fly?

As fast as other submarine-launched missiles I presume.

Originally posted by Creshosk


http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816273776.gif&s=x11 This also really doesn't show anything.

He is clearly flying faster hen 40 MPH in that picture.


Originally posted by Creshosk


http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816295735.gif&s=x11
He caught and threw a missle. . doesn't really show flying speed.

Does show that the jet is moving like slow motion to him...also check the two last panels. That's where he sets to Antartica.

Originally posted by Creshosk


http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30816310732.gif&s=x11
This deoesn't really show anything.

He flew there from USA, and it didn't took long.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Most of those scans he's just flying, there isn't really anything to show his speed in those. . .just him moving around with no time frame. . . You can probably do that for any character, but that doesn't mean that they move that fast. . . Heck I got a pretty good one of Jubilee moving around, but she doesn't have superhuman speed. . .

Kind of hard, since comics don't calculate the speeds all the time. There is the scan where he is mistaken as plane, though...

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30803570831.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
In the old seventies Invaders series he caught up with and had dogfights with multiple axis fighter aeroplanes. his fast

Cool. Show some scans and we'll take that on board.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thank you Cresh. I was just in the middle of replying and i refreshed and saw you got the situation handled.

DC your scans really arent good enough. Most of them are completely useless i.e the ones which just show Namor flying with no point to reference his speed, a lot have been dismissed previously, a few are battle situations and are more about reaction times. Your best direction is to get some stats on those Atlanetan jets the same models shown in the scans.

Either way you havent shown he's significantly greater than his stats and nothing here says hes anywhere near as fast as Storm. He even says that Sunfire is faster and Sunfire flies at 150 mph LOL.

The stats for the jets are not shown there. I still assume they are as fast or faster then human jets of that time, because of Atlanteans better technology.

Show a pic where Storm is flying significantly faster then Namor. I will accept it then.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Cool. Show some scans and we'll take that on board.

Anyone who knows comics knows its true

What scans like yours that show nothing and mess up the page

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Cool. Show some scans and we'll take that on board.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817250877.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817254011.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
Anyone who knows comics knows its true

What scans like yours that show nothing and mess up the page

Theyre sufficient to all but the fallacious. I think the poll in the last phoenix thread shows that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theyre sufficient to all but the fallacious. I think the poll in the last phoenix thread shows that.

not really it shows very little its very close and the sample group is very small. Galactus was winning for days now his not but thats your level of statistics understanding I guess.

You really have not read many comics have you

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817353015.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Dodging them.Reaction speed Baseball players hit 100+ mph baseballs. but that doesn't mean they run faster than 100+ mph.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Flying faster then 40 MPH. How does that show more than 40 mph? how does that give any reference to speed?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Speedblitz. Part of "speed blitzing" ius the sucker punch, catching an opponent off guard doesn't show much for speed feats.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Faster then 40 MPH. So are you just ignoring what I'm saying now?

That does not show an accurate reference for speed. No time frame igiven for accomplishing these events and no direct speed measurment given.

You're putting your own interpritation into it being 40 mph when there is nothing there to show that.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Flying through Manhattan in seconds. How do you know it was seconds? We still have no time frame. . .

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Flying fast upwards. No indication of how fast.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
That's him flying with full vitality. It's valid even though he goes into water. Problem is that's like someone racing Superman and they are winning and then he just goes therough a pocket of solar energy, it's a plot device.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Atlantean tech is superior to human one, so I suppose it's going very fast. Until you give a reference of how fast and or how much better It's not really reliable to be used. Because even our tech we have different machines for different speeds. Is that one of their intentionally slower, or faster ones? How fast does it go?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But he still speedblitzed Spider-Man.
Spiderman underestimated him. . . Wolverine's done that before. And we both know that Wolverine isn't a speed demon. . .

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
As fast as other submarine-launched missiles I presume. You presume but can't say for certain?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He is clearly flying faster hen 40 MPH in that picture. Why because he flew from the iddle of the atlantic over florida with no given time frame?

HOW can you POSSIBLY say how fast he's going from that picture. As I said before, we have him moving, there is the flight path lines drawn in.

There is no time frame, we don't know if it was a full day, hours, minutes seconds or less for him to travel that distence. we have NO time frame.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Does show that the jet is moving like slow motion to him...also check the two last panels. That's where he sets to Antartica. Anad we have no time frame STILL We don't know how fast anything is moving.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He flew there from USA, and it didn't took long. How long? We aren't told. We have no way of saying what his speed is.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Kind of hard, since comics don't calculate the speeds all the time. There is the scan where he is mistaken as plane, though... Which doesn't help, being mistaken for something, being underestimated, and feats with no time frame don't show his speed. He could be going at mach speeds or less than 10 mph in some of those shots. We don't know because all we have is what is presented. No time frame no speed measurement, no way to say how fast he's moving.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817353015.gif&s=x11

hey its a pic of Namor smashing a second world war plane cool stuff DC

As usual GS does not have a clue

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
not really it shows very little its very close and the sample group is very small. Galactus was winning for days now his not but thats your level of statistics understanding I guess.

You really have not read many comics have you

Yeah but the difference is the results always the same wherever Phoenix is concerned.

Dont be such a stress head. It was only a little debate. You should be used to such a turnout by now. Come on mate youve been debating with me for quite some time now.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yeah but the difference is the results always the same wherever Phoenix is concerned.

Dont be such a stress head. It was only a little debate. You should be used to such a turnout by now. Come on mate youve been debating with me for quite some time now.

not at all hardly any difference and with Phoenix many disagree, sock all you like to "prove you point".

Hey look its Namor smashing a plane

Its Xornetto killing Phoenix

Its nearly half the members of this board who voted saying Galactus beats Phoenix and statistically means nothing.

Your point is?

Originally posted by Creshosk


Which doesn't help, being mistaken for something, being underestimated, and feats with no time frame don't show his speed. He could be going at mach speeds or less than 10 mph in some of those shots. We don't know because all we have is what is presented. No time frame no speed measurement, no way to say how fast he's moving.

You can clearly see that he is moving fast...usually the lines behind mean that...and if he would be flying at 40 MPH, I doubt that he would be mistaken as plane.



?

So If I say Namor straight from water is able to fly with said speeds, it doesn't matter because he can't be in his prime?

That's Namor showing flight speed that he is capable of doing.



The bad guy had unlimited resources to Atlantean war tech (He was general) and he knew Namor was going to go after him, so he probably chose the fast one...

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
not at all hardly any difference and with Phoenix many disagree, sock all you like to "prove you point".

Hey look its Namor smashing a plane

Its Xornetto killing Phoenix

Its nearly half the members of this board who voted saying Galactus beats Phoenix and statistically means nothing.

Your point is?

Whirly i think you have forgotten the terms of the thread. The thread was for Dark Phoenix not Phoenix. Youre average member doesnt know that there isnt actually a difference and so voted with that in mind.

When i stated that there wasnt a difference and when the threadmaker said its Phoenix of current continuity. Thats when you saw the turnaround my friend.

If you were to make a thread called the Phoenix Force versus Galactus you'll end up with a very different result.

Lesson time over.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You can clearly see that he is moving fast...usually the lines behind mean that...and if he would be flying at 40 MPH, I doubt that he would be mistaken as plane. He's flying in the sky and is a large object, that's enough for some people.

After all Superman's been mistaken as a bird and a plane. . but that's because he was a flying object. That's all.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
?

So If I say Namor straight from water is able to fly with said speeds, it doesn't matter because he can't be in his prime?

That's Namor showing flight speed that he is capable of doing. Because usually that's not how the fights are stated in these forums. So as such any outside event (environmental or what have you) that tips the scales in the favor of a character is refered to as a plot device. He appeared to be having difficulty catching the plane until he hit the water. and then he caught it instantly. . . So if he had not hit the water, would the results have been different?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The bad guy had unlimited resources to Atlantean war tech (He was general) and he knew Namor was going to go after him, so he probably chose the fast one... So we still have no idea on it then. . . I mean you could send out a fairly fast one as a decoy and a faster one to do the actual job. . . but hey we still have no idea of the speed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whirly i think you have forgotten the terms of the thread. The thread was for Dark Phoenix not Phoenix. Youre average member doesnt know that there isnt actually a difference and so voted with that in mind.

When i stated that there wasnt a difference and when the threadmaker said its Phoenix of current continuity. Thats when you saw the turnaround my friend.

If you were to make a thread called the Phoenix Force versus Galactus you'll end up with a very different result.

Lesson time over.

So your admitting that your previous comment was wrong and telling me lesson time is over after we have seen your wrong in this thread.

very sad

Originally posted by Creshosk


Because usually that's not how the fights are stated in these forums. So as such any outside event (environmental or what have you) that tips the scales in the favor of a character is refered to as a plot device. He appeared to be having difficulty catching the plane until he hit the water. and then he caught it instantly. . . So if he had not hit the water, would the results have been different?


He was nearly catching the plane.

He was not in his prime when trying to capture the plane first time...he had just lead a large scale attack on NY.

And Namor straight from water is the most used Namor version in these forums. That is just fair. If the other opponent can be in his/her prime, why couldn't the other?

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
So your admitting that your previous comment was wrong and telling me lesson time is over after we have seen your wrong in this thread.

very sad

But as Phoenix won in that thread how have i rendered my previous statement wrong?

Very confused old man.

?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817250877.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817254011.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817353015.gif&s=x11

I can hear the brain working away. Any minute now

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He was nearly catching the plane.

He was not in his prime when trying to capture the plane first time...he had just lead a large scale attack on NY.

And Namor straight from water is the most used Namor version in these forums. That is just fair. If the other opponent can be in his/her prime, why couldn't the other? Um, because it's like a sundipped superman versus normal superman?

Just a thought. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Um, because it's like a sundipped superman versus normal superman?

Just a thought. . .

So he sould be dehydrated?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817250877.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817254011.gif&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817353015.gif&s=x11 Uh, those aren't all part of the same comic are they?

They seem rather disjointed and also don't show much as far as speed goes. . .

Though I would avoid using the one where namor is caught in a down draft and unable to escape as current evidence against Storm . . .

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So he sould be dehydrated? Should Superman always be "sun dipped"?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Uh, those aren't all part of the same comic are they?

They seem rather disjointed and also don't show much as far as speed goes. . .

Though I would avoid using the one where namor is caught in a down draft and unable to escape as current evidence against Storm . . .

Lol, Namor was like 12 at the time he took out his first plane. Not really as strong as fast or as good in flying as he is now. That's why he was sucked in updraft.

And no, they are not all part of the same comic. Just to show that you wouldn't say that "He only did that once".

Disjointed or not, Namor took out fighter planes. Lots of them.

That can't be done with 40 MPH speed.

And doesn't show speed...? He catched that plane. As 12 year old.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But as Phoenix won in that thread how have i rendered my previous statement wrong?

Very confused old man.

not at all, you read back.

Namor smashed the plane.

Phoenix and Galactus are almost tied for days at the begining Galactus was winning I pointed this oput to you and his poll within an hour changed yet the post count did not

Not confused - honest

Phoenix means so much to you

little boy

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
not at all, you read back.

Namor smashed the plane.

Phoenix and Galactus are almost tied for days at the begining Galactus was winning I pointed this oput to you and his poll within an hour changed yet the post count did not

Not confused - honest

Phoenix means so much to you

little boy

Whirly what do you take me for. Im no Mider or Leonheart. Your clumsy attempts to goad me are hilarious.


Grow up old man. Find a better way to spend your spare time then trying to make people feel bad about themselves. What that suggests about yourself is most worrying indeed.

You poor soul.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Lol, Namor was like 12 at the time he took out his first plane. Not really as strong as fast or as good in flying as he is now. That's why he was sucked in updraft.

And no, they are not all part of the same comic. Just to show that you wouldn't say that "He only did that once".

Disjointed or not, Namor took out fighter planes. Lots of them.

That can't be done with 40 MPH speed.

And doesn't show speed...? He catched that plane. As 12 year old.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11 Because there is still the doubt of the plane flying towards him as opposed to away from him. So which of those shows him racing and then catching the plane? as opposed to flying into a plane that is also flying at him?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whirly what do you take me for. Im no Mider or Leonheart. Your clumsy attempts to goad me are hilarious.


Grow up old man. Find a better way to spend your spare time then trying to make people feel bad about themselves. What that suggests about yourself is most worrying indeed.

You poor soul.

you feel bad about yourself little boy

thats sad but don't blame me.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because there is still the doubt of the plane flying towards him as opposed to away from him. So which of those shows him racing and then catching the plane? as opposed to flying into a plane that is also flying at him?

It shows him being fast enough to compete and defeat a plane that is capable of going with speeds of 450 MPH.

And this scan shows him flying towards a plane:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

Since it was Namor who hit the plane, we can assume that he went with faster speeds.

manhattan's what, three miles wide? a straight line going three miles at 40 miles per hour would take four and a half minutes. 270 seconds. if it took him so much as twenty, that's still less than a tenth of the time it would take going at 40 mph, and more than ten times the speed of 40 mph. so he's at least flying somewhere in the hundreds of miles per hour.

to bisect the wing of a plane, even a plane "slowing" to attack speeds (which, i'll say is a generous 200 miles per hour,) and tear a hole hardly wider than his own width implies that in the time it took to get his six-feet and two inches through the wing of the plane, the plane moved forward hardly an inch. being generous, again, we'll say the plane moved six inches forward at two hundred miles per hour in the time it took namor to move 74 inches. namor would be moving more than twelve times as quickly as the plane, thus moving at speeds greater than 2400 miles per hour.

both of those instances take simple math applied to scenes you claim have no "reference" speeds. planes need to be moving at several hundred miles per hour to stay aloft, and fighter jets in particular are known for their incredible speed. even when slowing down to paveway a target, they still pass over the target at speeds of (at least) two hundred miles per hour. the derivation of the latter mathematics was taken from the panels, and from known facts about aircraft. the first was simple conjecture. BOTH, however, showed him moving significantly faster than his handbook entry says he can.

why's it such a big deal to accept that he can move at such speeds? he can, and he's done it before. why go through all the trouble of attempting to discredit a scene because "there's no reference" for how quickly he's moving? who even cares if he can fly faster than storm? he's fast, and he's faster than the handbook says he is. can we end it there?

Originally posted by Disappear
manhattan's what, three miles wide? a straight line going three miles at 40 miles per hour would take four and a half minutes. 270 seconds. if it took him so much as twenty, that's still less than a tenth of the time it would take going at 40 mph, and more than ten times the speed of 40 mph. so he's at least flying somewhere in the hundreds of miles per hour.

to bisect the wing of a plane, even a plane "slowing" to attack speeds (which, i'll say is a generous 200 miles per hour,) and tear a hole hardly wider than his own width implies that in the time it took to get his six-feet and two inches through the wing of the plane, the plane moved forward hardly an inch. being generous, again, we'll say the plane moved six inches forward at two hundred miles per hour in the time it took namor to move 74 inches. namor would be moving more than twelve times as quickly as the plane, thus moving at speeds greater than 2400 miles per hour.

both of those instances take simple math applied to scenes you claim have no "reference" speeds. planes need to be moving at several hundred miles per hour to stay aloft, and fighter jets in particular are known for their incredible speed. even when slowing down to paveway a target, they still pass over the target at speeds of (at least) two hundred miles per hour. the derivation of the latter mathematics was taken from the panels, and from known facts about aircraft. the first was simple conjecture. BOTH, however, showed him moving significantly faster than his handbook entry says he can.

why's it such a big deal to accept that he can move at such speeds? he can, and he's done it before. why go through all the trouble of attempting to discredit a scene because "there's no reference" for how quickly he's moving? who even cares if he can fly faster than storm? he's fast, and he's faster than the handbook says he is. can we end it there?

Agreed, excellent post

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It shows him being fast enough to compete and defeat a plane that is capable of going with speeds of 450 MPH.

And this scan shows him flying towards a plane:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

Since it was Namor who hit the plane, we can assume that he went with faster speeds. Is there something wrong with that scan compared to the way it is in the actual comic? Cause I can't even see a plane much less the direction it's headed in.

Originally posted by Disappear
manhattan's what, three miles wide? a straight line going three miles at 40 miles per hour would take four and a half minutes. 270 seconds. if it took him so much as twenty, that's still less than a tenth of the time it would take going at 40 mph, and more than ten times the speed of 40 mph. so he's at least flying somewhere in the hundreds of miles per hour.

to bisect the wing of a plane, even a plane "slowing" to attack speeds (which, i'll say is a generous 200 miles per hour,) and tear a hole hardly wider than his own width implies that in the time it took to get his six-feet and two inches through the wing of the plane, the plane moved forward hardly an inch. being generous, again, we'll say the plane moved six inches forward at two hundred miles per hour in the time it took namor to move 74 inches. namor would be moving more than twelve times as quickly as the plane, thus moving at speeds greater than 2400 miles per hour.

both of those instances take simple math applied to scenes you claim have no "reference" speeds. planes need to be moving at several hundred miles per hour to stay aloft, and fighter jets in particular are known for their incredible speed. even when slowing down to paveway a target, they still pass over the target at speeds of (at least) two hundred miles per hour. the derivation of the latter mathematics was taken from the panels, and from known facts about aircraft. the first was simple conjecture. BOTH, however, showed him moving significantly faster than his handbook entry says he can.

why's it such a big deal to accept that he can move at such speeds? he can, and he's done it before. why go through all the trouble of attempting to discredit a scene because "there's no reference" for how quickly he's moving? who even cares if he can fly faster than storm? he's fast, and he's faster than the handbook says he is. can we end it there? Because them flying towards each other is different than the plane flying away from him. If the plane is flying at him it takes less speed to get to than a plane flying away. I can't make out a plane in the s can where he is twelvel, and in the others it's hard to tell what's going on exactly. in regards to direction as well. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because them flying towards each other is different than the plane flying away from him. If the plane is flying at him it takes less speed to get to than a plane flying away. I can't make out a plane in the s can where he is twelvel, and in the others it's hard to tell what's going on exactly. in regards to direction as well. . .

Believe me Cresh he used to regularly chase planes in the Invaders

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
Believe me Cresh he used to regularly chase planes in the Invaders Ah, do we have a scan of that?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Ah, do we have a scan of that?

Of course not those comics are in my parents loft, about 75 miles away. I do not have enough storage for comics beyond the last few years.

Doesn't stop it being a fact.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Ah, do we have a scan of that? Do you happen to have any scans of multiple regular incidents where it implicitly or explicitly states or shows Storm's flight speed and provides external references to it, that would indicate her flight speed surpasses the most recent given handbook speed of a maximum of 300 mph - thus invalidating it - in the same way that the multitude of scans given by DC have shown the 40 mph figure from a very old handbook to be inaccurate.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Do you happen to have any scans of multiple regular incidents where it implicitly or explicitly states or shows Storm's flight speed and provides external references to it, that would indicate her flight speed surpasses the most recent given handbook speed of a maximum of 300 mph - thus invalidating it - in the same way that the multitude of scans given by DC have shown the 40 mph figure from a very old handbook to be inaccurate. Even if I did I wouldn't be putting them here, I don't want this to be a "Storm versus Namor" thread(even though that is actually the point of this thread), I would like this to be used to determine Namor's speed.

Though I like how you already set up a catch 22 with anything that shows a scan to have storm surpassing 300 mph is automatically invalidated. . .

Anyway as I said, I'm not arguing for Storm here. Before I even joined this forum I didn't even know that Namor could fly. Admittedly I don't know much about him and would like to learn more. And that's my stake in this thread. Personally from what I have seen it really doesn't matter too much, it's not like I've seen Sstorm be able to throw anything at him he couldn't take.

Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
Of course not those comics are in my parents loft, about 75 miles away. I do not have enough storage for comics beyond the last few years.

Doesn't stop it being a fact. Well I'm more or less hoping DC has the scans. . . But that's the sort of thing I'm talking about. Racing or chasing down something shows greater speed than flying into it when they are headed towards each other.

cannonball is said to be one of the fastest flyers in marvel, and storm kept up with him. in extreme they had a race, and it was said that cannonball was close to his max, and storm was just behind him while riding a jet-stream. if she can reach his max speeds with one jet-stream, then she would be faster due to the fact she is capable of riding multiple jet-streams for faster speed.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Even if I did I wouldn't be putting them here, I don't want this to be a "Storm versus Namor" thread(even though that is actually the point of this thread), I would like this to be used to determine Namor's speed.

Though I like how you already set up a catch 22 with anything that shows a scan to have storm surpassing 300 mph is automatically invalidated. . .

Anyway as I said, I'm not arguing for Storm here. Before I even joined this forum I didn't even know that Namor could fly. Admittedly I don't know much about him and would like to learn more. And that's my stake in this thread. Personally from what I have seen it really doesn't matter too much, it's not like I've seen Sstorm be able to throw anything at him he couldn't take. You misinterpretted my post - I meant that if scans shows her surpassing 300 mph on a regular basis this can invalidate the 300 mph figure... in the same way that the Namor scans have easily invalidated the 40 mph figure. Otherwise a double standard is being held if one maintains that Storm can surpass the handbook speed so it's inaccurate but Namor's handbook speed is accurate even though he surpasses it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You misinterpretted my post - I meant that if scans shows her surpassing 300 mph on a regular basis this can invalidate the 300 mph figure... in the same way that the Namor scans have easily invalidated the 40 mph figure. Otherwise a double standard is being held if one maintains that Storm can surpass the handbook speed so it's inaccurate but Namor's handbook speed is accurate even though he surpasses it. Well since I never said that Storm could surpass 300 mph wouldn't that pretty much invalidate your point and post in the first place?

Originally posted by Creshosk
I have no doubt he'd be able to beat storm, as he is really fast, but not really 8000 mph fast. . .

Seems that I think he's able to beat storm . . imagine that. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well since I never said that Storm could surpass 300 mph wouldn't that pretty much invalidate your point and post in the first place? The point was not made to you in particular, it was in general towards those detractors of Namor's speed who incidentally are also supporters of Storm's speed. Don't be so narcissistic.

Originally posted by stormfront13
cannonball is said to be one of the fastest flyers in marvel, and storm kept up with him. in extreme they had a race, and it was said that cannonball was close to his max, and storm was just behind him while riding a jet-stream. if she can reach his max speeds with one jet-stream, then she would be faster due to the fact she is capable of riding multiple jet-streams for faster speed.

Who says that Cannonball is one of the fastest flyers in Marvel?

the scan i'm referring to in the "namor v. plane" paragraph has namor moving perpendicular to the planes. the plane's speed relative to his own applies only in points of intersection, as he is neither chasing it, nor approaching it along its path of flight.

i really didn't feel like being a dick about this, but that scan clearly shows namor busting through both wings of the plane while the plane is, speaking relatively, not moving. there is a whizzing contrail behind namor, where there is none behind either plane in the frame. the white trail shows his path, and is unbroken between the two wings, both of which he plowed right through. if anything, my first post was being gentle about namor's speed, and the cited panel itself is telling a better story about it than i did myself.

namor's going incredibly fast to burst first through one wing of the plane, then through the other, while the plane moves relatively NO distance (though it's flying at several hundred miles per hour.) that image proves it, and as it agrees with numerous other scans DC's taken the effort to post, it's not "out of character" and doesn't fall under the "SvFL" category of neglected instances.

hate to break it to you, but namor's much faster than the handbooks suggest, and a lot of DC's scans have proven it.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Who says that Cannonball is one of the fastest flyers in Marvel? The same person who says Storm can reach Mach 3 with ease...

Originally posted by Disappear
the scan i'm referring to in the "namor v. plane" paragraph has namor moving perpendicular to the planes. the plane's speed relative to his own applies only in points of intersection, as he is neither chasing it, nor approaching it along its path of flight.

i really didn't feel like being a dick about this, but that scan clearly shows namor busting through both wings of the plane while the plane is, speaking relatively, not moving. there is a whizzing contrail behind namor, where there is none behind either plane in the frame. the white trail shows his path, and is unbroken between the two wings, both of which he plowed right through. if anything, my first post was being gentle about namor's speed, and the cited panel itself is telling a better story about it than i did myself.

namor's going incredibly fast to burst first through one wing of the plane, then through the other, while the plane moves relatively NO distance (though it's flying at several hundred miles per hour.) that image proves it, and as it agrees with numerous other scans DC's taken the effort to post, it's not "out of character" and doesn't fall under the "SvFL" category of neglected instances.

hate to break it to you, but namor's much faster than the handbooks suggest, and a lot of DC's scans have proven it. Could I know which scan this refers to btw... if the object is moving horizontally and Namor is travelling "perpendicular" and they collide then simple vectors say he is moving a greater distance than the plane in the same amount of time... and thus moving at faster velocity.

Originally posted by Disappear
the scan i'm referring to in the "namor v. plane" paragraph has namor moving perpendicular to the planes. the plane's speed relative to his own applies only in points of intersection, as he is neither chasing it, nor approaching it along its path of flight.

i really didn't feel like being a dick about this, but that scan clearly shows namor busting through both wings of the plane while the plane is, speaking relatively, not moving. there is a whizzing contrail behind namor, where there is none behind either plane in the frame. the white trail shows his path, and is unbroken between the two wings, both of which he plowed right through. if anything, my first post was being gentle about namor's speed, and the cited panel itself is telling a better story about it than i did myself.

namor's going incredibly fast to burst first through one wing of the plane, then through the other, while the plane moves relatively NO distance (though it's flying at several hundred miles per hour.) that image proves it, and as it agrees with numerous other scans DC's taken the effort to post, it's not "out of character" and doesn't fall under the "SvFL" category of neglected instances.

hate to break it to you, but namor's much faster than the handbooks suggest, and a lot of DC's scans have proven it.

You are impressive

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Could I know which scan this refers to btw... if the object is moving horizontally and Namor is travelling "perpendicular" and they collide then simple vectors say he is moving a greater distance than the plane in the same amount of time... and thus moving at faster velocity.

that's what i said in the post prior to my last one. the scan's on page four, DC's scan of namor with the new defenders or something.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The point was not made to you in particular, it was in general towards those detractors of Namor's speed who incidentally are also supporters of Storm's speed. Don't be so narcissistic. Kind of hard not to think it was directed at me when you had quoted me.

Sorry Cresh I'll bear that in mind if ever I quote you again when you provide me with a good quote to illustrate my question... from now on I'll say "this is directed to you" if something is directed to you...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Could I know which scan this refers to btw... if the object is moving horizontally and Namor is travelling "perpendicular" and they collide then simple vectors say he is moving a greater distance than the plane in the same amount of time... and thus moving at faster velocity. I missed this scan: http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30811371830.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sorry Cresh I'll bear that in mind if ever I quote you again when you provide me with a good quote to illustrate my question... from now on I'll say "this is directed to you" if something is directed to you... Ah, I understand now. my apologies on that.

Here's Namor taking out an entire fleet of fighters...and grabbing one of the pilots same time:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30904411480.gif&s=x11

The comic is from year 1989, just for your information...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It shows him being fast enough to compete and defeat a plane that is capable of going with speeds of 450 MPH.

And this scan shows him flying towards a plane:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30817243455.gif&s=x11

Since it was Namor who hit the plane, we can assume that he went with faster speeds. Yeah, but in the scan, he also hurt himself hitting the plane
lmao

Originally posted by Juntai
Yeah, but in the scan, he also hurt himself hitting the plane
lmao

Well, he WAS 12 years old...wouldn't it hurt you if you would go with tremendous speeds and hit etc. another human?

See what happens when he is older...

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30904411480.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, he WAS 12 years old...wouldn't it hurt you if you would go with tremendous speeds and hit etc. another human?

See what happens when he is older...

No.
That human would lie at my feet.