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Alright. So we have who is probably the second most powerful Jedi ever(after NJO Luke) and Jacen Solo(DN if you have read it, if not NJO Jacen) vs. uber Palpatine.

Location: Plains of Dantooine

Out of pure hate for the Solo Children, and love of Vodo, I'd say Solo gets squished by Sidious's Force Storm and his then...obliterated by Vodo.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Alright. So we have who is probably the second most powerful Jedi ever(after NJO Luke) and Jacen Solo(DN if you have read it, if not NJO Jacen) vs. uber Palpatine.

Location: Plains of Dantooine

Jacen sucks, and vodo isnt the 2nd most powerful jedi ever...That would be yoda...

DE palps wins.

Jacen is good though. Near Mace probably. He's studied at least five views of the Force.

Edit: GV, Vodo could take Yoda.

First, Vodo is six hundred. Yoda doesn't have much of an advantage in this catagorey for amount of time to learn about the Force.

Second, Vodo was considered a grandmaster. I figure this pretty much means head of the Order like other similar groups like the Jedi(Taekwondo for example).

Third, Jedi in Vodo's time were generally better than PT Jedi.

Vodo may have fought against Nadd and some of the other True Sith. Added to his experince in the Great Sith War, he has more War experince than Yoda.

Vodo Siosk ? Exar Kun's master ?

Well, Jacen nor Vodo can defeat DE Sidious one-on-one. I suppose it's how well they are coordinated in a team. Jacen will die, no doubt. If she is Mace's equal, she can neither contend with Sidious in the categories of Force powers or lightsaber ability, and will die very quickly. Vodo may be able to take advantage of the scenario while Sidious slaughters Jacen. If he does, he'll be able to win this. If not, he will die. Though he will not be 'slaughtered' quite as bad as Jacen.

Jacen is a guy.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Jacen is good though. Near Mace probably. He's studied at least five views of the Force.

Edit: GV, Vodo could take Yoda.

First, Vodo is six hundred. Yoda doesn't have much of an advantage in this catagorey for amount of time to learn about the Force.

Second, Vodo was considered a grandmaster. I figure this pretty much means head of the Order like other similar groups like the Jedi(Taekwondo for example).

Third, Jedi in Vodo's time were generally better than PT Jedi.

Vodo may have fought against Nadd and some of the other True Sith. Added to his experince in the Great Sith War, he has more War experince than Yoda.

WTH?

I might have to smash you for this stupidity.

Is he ? My friend told me Jacen was a girl. Sorry. I don't read NJO. My bad.

Jaina was the girl.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
WTH?

I might have to smash you for this stupidity.

Unless you can provide something better you might as well stfu.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Jacen is good though. Near Mace probably. He's studied at least five views of the Force.

Edit: GV, Vodo could take Yoda.

First, Vodo is six hundred. Yoda doesn't have much of an advantage in this catagorey for amount of time to learn about the Force.

Second, Vodo was considered a grandmaster. I figure this pretty much means head of the Order like other similar groups like the Jedi(Taekwondo for example).

Third, Jedi in Vodo's time were generally better than PT Jedi.

Vodo may have fought against Nadd and some of the other True Sith. Added to his experince in the Great Sith War, he has more War experince than Yoda.

Okay...


1. Yoda is 900, 900>600 if Im correct...

2. Yoda is a grandmaster also, all this means is that you are head of the order and has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

3. Proof? Honestly all this blind speculation is whats killing the forum.

4. OH he *may* of fought against Nadd...There is no worth in this statement at all. What *is* documented is that he fought Exar Kun, his former pupil, and was obliterated in about 10 seconds.

Yoda would have been wasted if he went up against Kun.

bump

come on. someone give me some replies here.

I'm going to say DE Sidious. I heard Vodo was annihilated by Kun, and if this is the case, the same will occur against Sidious, who is close to being Kun's equal.

Vodo, as far as I can tell, lasted against Exar for some time, fully capable of defending Kun's force attacks but losing to his lightsaber prowless. DE Sidious is more of a force beast than powerful lightsaber wielder in my view.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
1.Age is a definate advantage, age can be overcome(Im not saying age is the beat all attribute here) but your a fool if you just disregard an extra 300 years of training as not an advantage.

Knowledge was still lost. In anycase, Vodo fought in real wars. He fought against Nadd, against the Krath, and against the Sith. Yoda fought droids.

2Originally posted by Great Vengeance
.No it doesnt, were talking about how powerful they are, not their current title within the current jedi order.

The head of the Order is the most powerful in the Order. If Vodo is the most powerful Jedi in a time when Jedi were stronger, he is more powerful.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
3.Applying natural selection to the star wars universe? LOL... C'mon now Glentract that is a fairly interesting theory but it holds no real water.

Unless you can disprove it, it stands.

TOriginally posted by Great Vengeance
heres no way of proving that the old orders of the past are stronger than the new ones, unless some of them actually fight.. and even if they were *on average* stronger, there are always exceptions to the rule. You bring up medievil sword-fighting versus current sword fighting, yes on average people were better at sword-fighting back then compared to today,mostly because we hardly ever use swords anymore...however how do you know there isnt somone in this world right now that has dedicated his whole life to art of swordsmanship and formed some sort of sword-fighting cult so that he can hone his skills against worthy human opponents every day? How do you know this man couldnt stand up to the best the medievil times had to offer?

If that person didn't fight in real wars, they will never get as strong. Unless you can prove an exception to the rule that fits this, shut up because you are only wasting my time. You also have to prove that this one little guy started his own cult and trains everyday. Like I said before, prove up or shut up.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
And also the bit you brought up about anakin and that his off-spring had lower force potential, we dont know that luke had lower potential..On the contrary Luke displayed more promise than Anakin ever did, Luke only had what? A year of training? He still went up against his father who was an experienced sith lord and stood toe to toe with him, and after the second time they crossed swords Luke actually bested him. Could Anakin of done this? I seriously doubt it based on his pitiful performance in his first fight with Dooku(Not to mention Anakin had much more training at that point than Luke did).

Luke also had a Kaiburr crystal at this point. The Kaiburr crystal mutiplies his power the closer he gets to Pomojema. And may I remind you that Luke was trained to be a weapon; Anakin a keeper of the peace. Don't believe me? Obi-wan actually took over Luke's body the first time Luke fought Vader with the goal of destroying Vader.

He never stood toe-to-toe against Vader until the third time they fought. This third time Luke had the Kaiburr crystal and training to be a weapon.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
4. Sure it makes sense but it isnt documented so your statement is completely worthless.

Is your statement that Vapaad is the deadliest saberform documented? How about it being about ten seconds? How about Ulic being the greatest Jedi in the Order? Nope, they aren't. Therefor completely worthless.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
And I got the 10 second thing from Nai Fohl, ask him if you want the proof for it. And even if it wasnt *exactly* 10 seconds, he was still defeated much too quickly and easily if your going to classify him as the 2nd strongest jedi *ever*. You do know by making that statement you ranked him above not only Yoda but:

Nai isn't a good source when it comes to Ancient Jedi as he is extremely biased against them.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Ulic- Before he became a sith he was said to be the greatest jedi of his time. He fared much better against Kun than Vodo did, he fought Kun to a draw until Marka Ragnos intervened.

Ulic used the Darkside in this fight as was wearing one of Naga's Sith Amulets. He was not a Jedi during this battle, especially since he was fighting for a Sith position.

Also, Vodo was still the Order's Grandmaster. The Grandmaster is the most powerful in the Order at that time.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Odan-urr- The 1000 year old legendary jedi master who invented the jedi code.

Please prove his skill.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Mace- The man who invented the deadliest lightsaber form currently known and the man who arguably defeated Sidious. (One of the few jedi to actually stand toe to toe with a dark lord of the sith)

Please. This is just sad. Mace would be ripped apart by Vodo.

For Jedi who have stood against DLOS, please look at the following list:
Luke(fought two with just four years of training.)
Lord Hoth(fought against the Brotherhood of Darkness Members mutiple times)
LS Revan(Malak)
Jedi Exile(Sion, Nihilus, Traya, Kreia)
Visas(Nihilus)
Yoda(Sidious)
ect.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Nomi Sunrider- Was able to use a lightsaber to kill her husbands attackers before learning to use the force, became a lightsaber master within weeks, stripped Ulic of the force.(I got all of this from the comics)

Nomi never became a Jedi Master. She always was a Knight.

Ulic pretty much let her stip him of the Force as he was in shock at that point and totally unable and unwilling to resist.

She killed some thugs, but that was after several weeks under Master Thon. May I remind you that Luke took down Black Sun, much more than a few thus. Also, Corran Horn, with only six weeks took out a massive priate base(one of the largest in the galaxy) and an Imperial Garrison.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
LS Revan-Do I need to explain?

Yes. There is nothing to support Revan defeating Vodo.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The head of the Order is the most powerful in the Order. If Vodo is the most powerful Jedi in a time when Jedi were stronger, he is more powerful.



Unless you can disprove it, it stands.

T

If that person didn't fight in real wars, they will never get as strong. Unless you can prove an exception to the rule that fits this, shut up because you are only wasting my time. You also have to prove that this one little guy started his own cult and trains everyday. Like I said before, prove up or shut up.



Luke also had a Kaiburr crystal at this point. The Kaiburr crystal mutiplies his power the closer he gets to Pomojema. And may I remind you that Luke was trained to be a weapon; Anakin a keeper of the peace. Don't believe me? Obi-wan actually took over Luke's body the first time Luke fought Vader with the goal of destroying Vader.

He never stood toe-to-toe against Vader until the third time they fought. This third time Luke had the Kaiburr crystal and training to be a weapon.



Is your statement that Vapaad is the deadliest saberform documented? How about it being about ten seconds? How about Ulic being the greatest Jedi in the Order? Nope, they aren't. Therefor completely worthless.



Nai isn't a good source when it comes to Ancient Jedi as he is extremely biased against them.



Ulic used the Darkside in this fight as was wearing one of Naga's Sith Amulets. He was not a Jedi during this battle, especially since he was fighting for a Sith position.

Also, Vodo was still the Order's Grandmaster. The Grandmaster is the most powerful in the Order at that time.



Please prove his skill.



Please. This is just sad. Mace would be ripped apart by Vodo.

For Jedi who have stood against DLOS, please look at the following list:
Luke(fought two with just four years of training.)
Lord Hoth(fought against the Brotherhood of Darkness Members mutiple times)
LS Revan(Malak)
Jedi Exile(Sion, Nihilus, Traya, Kreia)
Visas(Nihilus)
Yoda(Sidious)
ect.



Nomi never became a Jedi Master. She always was a Knight.

Ulic pretty much let her stip him of the Force as he was in shock at that point and totally unable and unwilling to resist.

She killed some thugs, but that was after several weeks under Master Thon. May I remind you that Luke took down Black Sun, much more than a few thus. Also, Corran Horn, with only six weeks took out a massive priate base(one of the largest in the galaxy) and an Imperial Garrison.



Yes. There is nothing to support Revan defeating Vodo.


Now I remember how annoying this gets...


1. If you want me to back up everything little thing I say then where is the proof Vodo ever actually fought in a war?

2. Again, title means nothing, alot of people would argue Mace is stronger than Yoda yet Yoda was the Grandmaster. And you still cling to the idea that old jedi are automatically stronger than new jedi yet I already explained there are always exceptions.

3. Stop being immature, I used this as a hypothetical example not as an actual example. My point was there is always exceptions to the rule, if there even is a rule in this case. If your going to tell us how the star wars universe works than you need absolute proof so it may become law, otherwise its just your speculation enriched theory.

"Luke also had a Kaiburr crystal at this point. The Kaiburr crystal mutiplies his power the closer he gets to Pomojema. And may I remind you that Luke was trained to be a weapon; Anakin a keeper of the peace. Don't believe me? Obi-wan actually took over Luke's body the first time Luke fought Vader with the goal of destroying Vader."

WTH is this? Im not even going to ask for your source because it contradicts the movies therefore it is not valid period.

4. Vaapad being the deadliest lightsaber form is documented here:


Form VII


It clearly says that form VII is the ultimate form. I realize this site isnt the official site and I will work on finding a source that will shut you up for good but until then atleast I have something, you havent backed up anything you have said at all.


"For Jedi who have stood against DLOS, please look at the following list:
Luke(fought two with just four years of training.)
Lord Hoth(fought against the Brotherhood of Darkness Members mutiple times)
LS Revan(Malak)
Jedi Exile(Sion, Nihilus, Traya, Kreia)
Visas(Nihilus)
Yoda(Sidious)
ect."

Yeah the list you came up with pretty much ends there, I didnt say there were none I said there were few and Im still correct. Also you cant count Visas because she wasnt alone, Im talking about a jedi going one on one with a Dark Lord and not getting pwnt.


Finnaly, all the jedi that I brought up were just examples that you may have overlooked alot of people when you just suddenly named Vodo as the 2nd most powerful jedi. I would probably agree that Vodo could take Nomi , Odan , Mace and Ulic(before he became a sith) though these are still strong jedi and it would definately be debatable.

LS Revan IMO would beat Vodo. Refer to Emperor Revans famous list of Revans greatness for reasons. IMO both Yoda and Revan are in a different league than Vodo, most people on KMC would agree to this. If you want we can open a thread and see what everyone thinks to prove my point.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Now I remember how annoying this gets...

You are the one who is making it that way for yourself. If you find this annoying, go away. Leave KMC. Be free of you dudty and obligation.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
1. If you want me to back up everything little thing I say then where is the proof Vodo ever actually fought in a war?

You called me immature? LMAO! You're the one saying, "If you do this, then I'm going to do this." Childish. Just to satisfy you, TOTJ, Vodo fights in the Wars.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
2. Again, title means nothing, alot of people would argue Mace is stronger than Yoda yet Yoda was the Grandmaster. And you still cling to the idea that old jedi are automatically stronger than new jedi yet I already explained there are always exceptions.

Don't tell me what a lot of people think. Do you think I don't know that? What that a pathetic attempt to insult me? "What is popular is not always right."

Go ahead, argue that Mace is the second most powerful. Won't bother me a bit.

And now lets think back on your amazing proof for their being exceptions, "and even if they were *on average* stronger, there are always exceptions to the rule."

Oh my gosh, that is so good. Where did you learn to do that. Zeus couldn't argue against that. Wow. Just. Wow.

Now, prove that title means nothing. Prove that it hasn't in the Jedi Order ALWAYS meant what is says. Go ahead, prove up.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
3. Stop being immature, I used this as a hypothetical example not as an actual example. My point was there is always exceptions to the rule, if there even is a rule in this case. If your going to tell us how the star wars universe works than you need absolute proof so it may become law, otherwise its just your speculation enriched theory.

Amazing point. It was PURE speculation. If something happened, it could lead to something else, which makes something else happen and *bam*! Ragnos just got wasted by Bail Organa.

You personally stated blind specualtion is killing this forum. I should report you to the mods for try to destroy KMC.

"Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Luke also had a Kaiburr crystal at this point. The Kaiburr crystal mutiplies his power the closer he gets to Pomojema. And may I remind you that Luke was trained to be a weapon; Anakin a keeper of the peace. Don't believe me? Obi-wan actually took over Luke's body the first time Luke fought Vader with the goal of destroying Vader."

WTH is this? Im not even going to ask for your source because it contradicts the movies therefore it is not valid period.

It's in Splinter of the Minds Eye, a book which is approved by Lucas himself and even has an introduction by Lucas.

Now, please show how this contradicts the movies.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
4. Vaapad being the deadliest lightsaber form is documented here:


Form VII


It clearly says that form VII is the ultimate form. I realize this site isnt the official site and I will work on finding a source that will shut you up for good but until then atleast I have something, you havent backed up anything you have said at all.

Shall I go to one of my Star Wars websites and state that Ragnos is made of cheese? I mean, at least I would have something.

Do you even remember what my point was?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
"For Jedi who have stood against DLOS, please look at the following list:
Luke(fought two with just four years of training.)
Lord Hoth(fought against the Brotherhood of Darkness Members mutiple times)
LS Revan(Malak)
Jedi Exile(Sion, Nihilus, Traya, Kreia)
Visas(Nihilus)
Yoda(Sidious)
ect."

Yeah the list you came up with pretty much ends there, I didnt say there were none I said there were few and Im still correct. Also you cant count Visas because she wasnt alone, Im talking about a jedi going one on one with a Dark Lord and not getting pwnt.

And lets see how many DLOS there were to fight against.

Maybe fifty, most of which hid from the Jedi.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Finnaly, all the jedi that I brought up were just examples that you may have overlooked alot of people when you just suddenly named Vodo as the 2nd most powerful jedi. I would probably agree that Vodo could take Nomi , Odan , Mace and Ulic(before he became a sith) though these are still strong jedi and it would definately be debatable.

If you don't think they could defeat him, why did you bring it up? stay on topic here.

Side note: Please don't take offense, I'm not trying to make fun of you, but there is no space between the end of a word and a comma.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
LS Revan IMO would beat Vodo. Refer to Emperor Revans famous list of Revans greatness for reasons. IMO both Yoda and Revan are in a different league than Vodo, most people on KMC would agree to this. If you want we can open a thread and see what everyone thinks to prove my point.

IMO opinion, Vodo would take either of them. I'll be opening this thread in a little while, don't worry.

ER was a Revan fanboy. He argued Revan could take Ragnos. Most of those reasons, I might remind you, aren't canon.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You are the one who is making it that way for yourself. If you find this annoying, go away. Leave KMC. Be free of you dudty and obligation.



You called me immature? LMAO! You're the one saying, "If you do this, then I'm going to do this." Childish. Just to satisfy you, TOTJ, Vodo fights in the Wars.



Don't tell me what a lot of people think. Do you think I don't know that? What that a pathetic attempt to insult me? "What is popular is not always right."

Go ahead, argue that Mace is the second most powerful. Won't bother me a bit.

And now lets think back on your amazing proof for their being exceptions, "and even if they were *on average* stronger, there are always exceptions to the rule."

Oh my gosh, that is so good. Where did you learn to do that. Zeus couldn't argue against that. Wow. Just. Wow.

Now, prove that title means nothing. Prove that it hasn't in the Jedi Order ALWAYS meant what is says. Go ahead, prove up.



Amazing point. It was PURE speculation. If something happened, it could lead to something else, which makes something else happen and *bam*! Ragnos just got wasted by Bail Organa.

You personally stated blind specualtion is killing this forum. I should report you to the mods for try to destroy KMC.

"

It's in Splinter of the Minds Eye, a book which is approved by Lucas himself and even has an introduction by Lucas.

Now, please show how this contradicts the movies.



Shall I go to one of my Star Wars websites and state that Ragnos is made of cheese? I mean, at least I would have something.

Do you even remember what my point was?



And lets see how many DLOS there were to fight against.

Maybe fifty, most of which hid from the Jedi.



If you don't think they could defeat him, why did you bring it up? stay on topic here.

Side note: Please don't take offense, I'm not trying to make fun of you, but there is no space between the end of a word and a comma.



IMO opinion, Vodo would take either of them. I'll be opening this thread in a little while, don't worry.

ER was a Revan fanboy. He argued Revan could take Ragnos. Most of those reasons, I might remind you, aren't canon.

Lol Glentract Im done, most of that post is immature flames towards me.

I use the forums for two things-

1.For enjoyment.

2.To have sensible debates.

You were controlling your temper well until this point, but arguing with you now will be tiresome and pointless. Your right that I should free myself of the burden.

You fail to see your own flaws. I was merely trying to point them out to you.

In anycase, go ahead, give up, admit defeat. Like I've said, doesn't bother me.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
You fail to see your own flaws. I was merely trying to point them out to you.

In anycase, go ahead, give up, admit defeat. Like I've said, doesn't bother me.

Yes I probably do, and you fail to see yours. You can think you got the win here Glentract, I honestly dont care.

We have something in common.