Revan,Bastila and Juhani versus Exile,Aprendice and Kreya

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MTAPlayer
On Tatooine desert, who would win? (Exile and Revan already trained)

I think the first team wins, but Kreya has that floating lightsabers attack, so i dont know exatly.

kamikz
Whos Aprendice??? Anyway I'm not sure that Juhani nor Bastilla is able to counter Kreias instant kill power, heck I'm not even sure if Revan can.

MTAPlayer
When you play Kotor2 as female there is a playable character called aprendice, and sorry for typing Kreia wrong..

kamikz
Ok I see, I have only made a male character, that explains it then. No problem, everybody makes mistakes sometimes. It's hard to tell if Revan or the others can counter the instant kill attack, if it doesent work though I would most likley belive the other team wins.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by MTAPlayer
When you play Kotor2 as female there is a playable character called aprendice, and sorry for typing Kreia wrong..

I presume you are foreign then, her name is the Handmaiden.

Darth Traya
As for the outcome:

Kreia could easily dispose of Juhani and Bastila on her own, then the three gang up on Revan and kill him.

Kreia's team wins.

MTAPlayer
But at the final fight Exile wins against Kreia, so if some say that Revan is stronger than Exile then he would kill Kreia as well(with difficult and getting heavily injured)so the decision would be betwen Exile and Aprendice (or Handmaiden wathever) against Bastila and Juhani, difficult to say who would win

kamikz
Actually Darth Traya, when you play as a femal you don't get the Handmaiden, you get the Disciple or Aprendice or whatever. Well many here belive that Krei let the Exile beat her, I don't know much of it so mabey Traya could tell you.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by MTAPlayer
But at the final fight Exile wins against Kreia, so if some say that Revan is stronger than Exile then he would kill Kreia as well(with difficult and getting heavily injured)so the decision would be betwen Exile and Aprendice (or Handmaiden wathever) against Bastila and Juhani, difficult to say who would win

Traya quite blatently threw the fight with the Exile. Oh and Kreia would most certainly not lose against Revan.

The Exile has far more experience than Bastila and Juhani, although the Handmaiden has been trained to subdue Jedi, so she might be able to beat one of them.

MTAPlayer
I dont think Handmaiden would win against Bastila, and the Exile would have a hard time against Bastila's double blade lightsaber AND Juhani at the same time.

Note: If it's Bastila vs Exile and Handmaiden vs. Juhani then Exile's team wins.

kamikz
MTAPlayer, are you talking about the character you get when you have a femal character, isent that the disciple, and he's a guy. The Handmaiden is a woman which you get when you play as a male, is that the one your talking about, I'm getting confused. If it's the Disciple I think he will loose against Juhani but if it's the Handmaiden I have to go with her. The Exile will probably take down Bastilla.

jollyjim311
Kreia or Revan? That is a tough one. Kreia is Revans master though. Oh yeah, and Exile's team wins.

MTAPlayer
Kreia is Revan's master? She is Exile's Master...

And yes, im talking about the diciple, but Traya said Handmaiden and i got confused as well :P

jollyjim311
Kreia trained Revan as a Jedi, when Revan became evil she was exiled. Then she laid low for a while. Then the Sith (Nhilus and Sion) exiled her. That is when she finds the Exile and trains him(or her, I suppose).

MTAPlayer
thanks for the info, i never got enough influence with her to have the question "Did you know Revan" answered..

jollyjim311
I know, it made me mad, so I just started telling her stuff like I didn't need her and the like, things that gained influence (and Dark Side Points) until she answered most of my questions.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by MTAPlayer
I dont think Handmaiden would win against Bastila, and the Exile would have a hard time against Bastila's double blade lightsaber AND Juhani at the same time.

Note: If it's Bastila vs Exile and Handmaiden vs. Juhani then Exile's team wins.

Oh, that's certainly true. But Juhani will have to stand back from Bastila's double sabre, only enabling one to strike at at time.

Not to mention the Exile's superiority. The Exile can rival the council members of that time, and they were damn powerful. Not only that, the Exile was a general when Bastila and Juhani were still mere apprentices.

Fishy
The exile could never even come close to a council member when he was on his own. But I guess we are talking Kotor II Exile.. Which makes him damn good...

The problem here is however that damn good might not be enough. Bastila is not a weakling herself, don't underestimate her. She may not have been as powerful as the most powerful under Malak but she was without any doubt real powerful by Kotor II.

Revan in Kotor, yes perhaps can not defeat Kreia. But perhaps he can. Its hard to say if you ask me.

Juhani vs Disciple. Juhani takes this one easily. Hell she might even take the Handmaiden quickly.

So if you ask me. Juhani will take the first live in the fight. She will help Bastila someway or another well Bastila or Revan. She knows how to fight with Revan. So she would help Revan at the very least. Now this is harder for Kreia and for her. Because well she's fighting with people far above her.

So it would be smarter for her to fight the Exile along with Bastila and take them out. And then you have three against Kreia.

At least thats one way. However the Exile probably has a better team... Because the Exile draws power from them and fuses with them in a way. He would know everything they would do and vice versa and they wuold probably be able to fight better then Revan his team would be able to do. On the other hand, Revan his team did face harder times and was forced to work better together and the bond between Revan and Bastila was unique as well.

Juhani is the weak link in their team though.

Okay to make a long story short, I think this fight has to many factors I can not decide upon to make a real guess.

henniestevens
Exile's team.
Revan might be the strongest of all these people, but he isn't able to kill exile or kreia fast, of course the aprendice dies even before he activates his crappy ass saber.. At the same moment Exile flurries Juhani to dead and Kreia makes Bastila die. Then after a hell of a fight, where Traya even breaks her hip. The Exile is able to forcepush Revan down. When Revan looks up he sees 5 sabers all from different angles approach him at Force Speed. Then he dies smile

Fishy
Say what... the Exile flurries Juhani and Bastila to death.. You are heavily underestimating those two there.

MTAPlayer
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Oh, that's certainly true. But Juhani will have to stand back from Bastila's double sabre, only enabling one to strike at at time.


Well, They could take on Exile from both sides (front and back)
something like, bastila distract exile for a while, then Juhani comes from the back and rolling on floor laughing , there goes exiles head.

Darth Traya
Kreia could smash Bastila and Juhani in a few seconds. If she can toss the Head of the Guardians, the de facto leader of the Jedi and another senior council member around like ragdolls, she can most certainly obliterate Bastila and Juhani. I give them ten seconds at tops.

Fishy
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Kreia could smash Bastila and Juhani in a few seconds. If she can toss the Head of the Guardians, the de facto leader of the Jedi and another senior council member around like ragdolls, she can most certainly obliterate Bastila and Juhani. I give them ten seconds at tops.

And that is where doubts start to appear.

Kreia could have for all we know used the Exile to channel her powers, this seems a very logical assumption when you consider all the things we know about her and the Exile and Nihilus.

And if Kreia only has a second of no defence Revan could probably take it and kill her. Battle Pre Cog is going to be nice in that situation.

MTAPlayer
maybe it was a mistake to put disciple on this thread, nobody is at his side. lol

jollyjim311
Slightly off topic but,

Juhani is about a Ventress equivelent, I would say. Not a rediculous threat to the Jedi Order, but if you don't know what you are doing, then you are going to end up dead. She is maybe a little better than Ventress in saber combat, but Ventress has better stealth, piloting, etc.

Sound right?

MTAPlayer
i know almost everybody knows, but who is Ventress?

jollyjim311
Assaj Ventress, a Dark Jedi in the time of the clone wars. She is in the Clone Wars cartoon.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/asajjventress/index.html

MTAPlayer
oh that one. i saw the cartoon but didnt pay attention to names :P
well any star wars cartoon character would easily win against Neo Trinity and Morpheus together if you know what i mean.

Sre you sure Juhani is as strong as her?

jollyjim311
No, I'm not sure, it's more of a gut feeling. And TCW exaggerates characters (especially Mace Windu and Yoda). Add in the fact that we don't know much of Juhani's abilities, and it's really just a guess on my part, but it seems right to me.

Borbarad
Originally posted by Fishy
Kreia could have for all we know used the Exile to channel her powers, this seems a very logical assumption when you consider all the things we know about her and the Exile and Nihilus.


Well...while I agree with you on that point: She has the Exile with her in this fight so she might be able to instakill the entire enemy team (or at least Bastilla and Juhani) using him as focus.

Darth_Glentract
Revan and Kreia would duke it out, assuming Kreia would ever attack Revan, which I find unlikey.

Bastila would fight off the Exile, but would die after a while. Juhani could hold off Brianna, possibly even defeat her.

Anyway, Revan would kill Kreia and then go help Bastila. Then together they would go waste the Exile.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Borbarad
Well...while I agree with you on that point: She has the Exile with her in this fight so she might be able to instakill the entire enemy team (or at least Bastilla and Juhani) using him as focus.

Please don't take this as me attacking your belief since recently we have been doing that a lot to eachother, but what makes the Exile seem to be a focus point for her instakill technique?

MTAPlayer
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Revan and Kreia would duke it out, assuming Kreia would ever attack Revan, which I find unlikey.

Bastila would fight off the Exile, but would die after a while. Juhani could hold off Brianna, possibly even defeat her.

Anyway, Revan would kill Kreia and then go help Bastila. Then together they would go waste the Exile.

Brianna? Do you mean handmaiden?

Darth_Glentract
Yes. That's her real name.

henniestevens
Originally posted by Fishy
Say what... the Exile flurries Juhani and Bastila to death.. You are heavily underestimating those two there.

i said the exile flurries juhani to dead and kreia kills bastilla. I think they can do it really fast.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Fishy
And that is where doubts start to appear.

Kreia could have for all we know used the Exile to channel her powers, this seems a very logical assumption when you consider all the things we know about her and the Exile and Nihilus.

And if Kreia only has a second of no defence Revan could probably take it and kill her. Battle Pre Cog is going to be nice in that situation.

She uses the Exile to channel a force wave? What, that's nonsense. Perhaps that's true for the insta-kill attack, but not for her other powers.

Even if that is true, the Exile is present at the fight. Kreia vastly outclasses Juhani and Bastila/

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Traya quite blatently threw the fight with the Exile. Oh and Kreia would most certainly not lose against Revan.

The Exile has far more experience than Bastila and Juhani, although the Handmaiden has been trained to subdue Jedi, so she might be able to beat one of them.

Kreia did not throw the fight. She tried everything in her power to have the Exile killed. He *NEEDED* to die to fulfill her plans. She even pitted Four Lightsabers against him. Traya was not as strong as the Exile was.

Darth Traya
Originally posted by Sorgo
Kreia did not throw the fight. She tried everything in her power to have the Exile killed. He *NEEDED* to die to fulfill her plans. She even pitted Four Lightsabers against him. Traya was not as strong as the Exile was.

Hmm, I smell bullshit.

Anyway, why is it that Kreia can't beat the Exile, when she quite clearly knocked him out on Dantooine?

"I do not want your pity, I want to break you."

She does not want to kill the Exile, just make him break. Even then, why bother training the Exile? She could have fulfilled her plans on Peragus when he was unarmed and half naked.

Plus, in the cut content she does not want to kill the Exile. Just make him feel despair, hence why she and Sion mash up the Exile's henchmen.

Borbarad
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Please don't take this as me attacking your belief since recently we have been doing that a lot to eachother, but what makes the Exile seem to be a focus point for her instakill technique?

Before killing the masters on Dantooine she said she will make them feel what the Exile felt. And what she did after this killed them.

So...what has she done ?

a)
She could have cut off the masters connection to the force but that doesn't kill people (Ulic, the Exile, Kyle Katarn, Jerec all survived that).

b)
She could have confronted them with the impressions the Exile had (being responsible for all the killing on Malachor V) before he cut his connection to the force in order to survive this impressions hitting him through the force. That is by any means a very powerful technique but you can argue that she needed the Exile around to do that either to have access to that impressions or to use the Exiles force connections to the people.

Fishy
The description on the death councillors says the force was drained from them. Drained so much that they actually died..

Nobody can do that except for Nihilus and the Exile... For all we know Kreia did not have this much power it would be inlogical and everything seems to suggest otherwise. So its very likely that Kreia channelled the attack through the Exile.

The Overmaster
Actually, if this fight doesnt have any blood lust, Kriea wouldnt attack Revan or Bastila, because she knows Revan loves Bastila and she wouldnt want to hurt him by killing Bastila.She would however Anihilate Juhani. Revan would fight the exile, it would end up being a Obi-wan Anakin fight all over again.Bastila and the Disciple would fight for about 1-2 minutes with Bastila coming out the victor. Right before Revan goes for the killing blow against the Exile, Kriea use force wave and separates them. She and Bastila talk some sense into Revan and the Exile and they stop fighting. They each go separate ways, however in reality Revan wins because the second he got home, you know he got Bastila. smile

Fishy
So? The Exile got Kreia...

The Overmaster
Originally posted by Fishy
So? The Exile got Kreia...

Well, considering that it was a male exile, I could be wrong, he should have come home to a waiting handmaiden and Visas! OH YEAH!!!!! eek!

jollyjim311
AND KREIA!!!!!....MAYBE HK!!!!!

The Overmaster
YA!!!!!!!!!!

Ianus
Kreia alone would probably steamroll over the opposition. Her help is merely a formality of the evident.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Hmm, I smell bullshit.

Anyway, why is it that Kreia can't beat the Exile, when she quite clearly knocked him out on Dantooine?

"I do not want your pity, I want to break you."

She does not want to kill the Exile, just make him break. Even then, why bother training the Exile? She could have fulfilled her plans on Peragus when he was unarmed and half naked.

Plus, in the cut content she does not want to kill the Exile. Just make him feel despair, hence why she and Sion mash up the Exile's henchmen.

Hmm, I smell favortism.

You're making the assumption that Traya mean't breaking him emotionally? Word... Is that why she virtually tried to kill him? On the game, when you're at low health fighting her, YOU DIE.


She wanted to kill him because of his betrayal towards her ideas.

The Creator
Sorgo I thought you were leaving here.

Sorgo
I figured these SW sections need a guy like me to wipe the slate clean of noobs.


I am staying.

Darth_Glentract
What did I tell you. It's so hard to leave. Glad you're still here.

Ianus
Originally posted by Sorgo
Hmm, I smell favortism.

You're making the assumption that Traya mean't breaking him emotionally? Word... Is that why she virtually tried to kill him? On the game, when you're at low health fighting her, YOU DIE.


She wanted to kill him because of his betrayal towards her ideas.

And I smell misinformation.

Sorgo, Kreia wanted the death of the Force. The Exile alone was capable of bringing that about, as the jedi masters foresaw. When they saught to remove the force from the Exile so he could not do so, she killed them. Kreia has no motive to kill the Exile, and considering she can wipe the floor with everyone else in the game (Save for perhaps Nihilus) it makes no sense she would lose to the Exile and then sit there and read his bloody fortune.

Darth_Frobo
Interesting,

Exile would definitley beat bastilla, juhani would beat apprentice so that becomes juhani v.s exile leaving Revan and kriea to battle it out.

Now, we all know exile will kick juhani's ass pretty badly at that, that being said I actually think Revan could take kreia for a couple of reasons,

1. He's learned from both malachor and the tombs on korriban, teachings from the greatest of sith lords, he's a walking sith library, even more so then kreia.

2. pre-cog, this works really well when combined witht he last one, He knows what kreia will do before she does it and because his knowledge exceeds hers(however slightly) he'll be able to deal with any force powers she throws at him and have a consistent upper hand in a lightsaber duel.

3.He's a master swordsman, he fought his way through two major wars killing the most badass people in the galaxy whenever they opposed him including the dark lord of the sith, he also had extensive knowledge of the seven forms and what was learned from sith teachings including a holocron teaching the style of tulak hord (the greatest saber duelist of all time). He has lots of knowledge and lots of experience in this field from jedi, sith and what he's learned from every opponent he's faced (a side affect of his battle pre-cog ability).

4. Kreia herself said that fighting keeps you sharp but peace makes you dull, Revan was always in non-stop fighting opposed to kreia who sepnt a lot of time studying the effects of malachor on the force. Revan has more knowledge (seemingly it isn't 100% confirmed but it's a pretty simple deduction to make) more combat experience and he'll always be one step ahead,never mind his vast array of sith artifacts that increase his power from when he pretty muched stripped korriban of all sith knwoledge and artifacts.

The question is will Revan get through kreia before exile gets through bastilla and juhani, I say yes, then he could probably beat the exile.

Darth_Glentract
Glad to see you again.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Exile would definitley beat bastilla, juhani would beat apprentice so that becomes juhani v.s exile leaving Revan and kriea to battle it out.

I agree with you here.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
Now, we all know exile will kick juhani's ass pretty badly at that, that being said I actually think Revan could take kreia for a couple of reasons,

Once again, I agree.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
1. He's learned from both malachor and the tombs on korriban, teachings from the greatest of sith lords, he's a walking sith library, even more so then kreia.

Possibly. Kreia spent a good deal more time on Malacor V. Also, their wasn't much left on Korriban that was accesible to Revan when he went there. Anything that could be gathered by Revan in his short time there had already been taken by the Sith at the Academy.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
2. pre-cog, this works really well when combined witht he last one, He knows what kreia will do before she does it and because his knowledge exceeds hers(however slightly) he'll be able to deal with any force powers she throws at him and have a consistent upper hand in a lightsaber duel.

All Jedi have pre-cog. Revan has a form of pre-cog that lets him predict battles, but seeing as Echani were weaker than Jedi, their pre-cog must not be as good.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
3.He's a master swordsman, he fought his way through two major wars killing the most badass people in the galaxy whenever they opposed him including the dark lord of the sith, he also had extensive knowledge of the seven forms and what was learned from sith teachings including a holocron teaching the style of tulak hord (the greatest saber duelist of all time). He has lots of knowledge and lots of experience in this field from jedi, sith and what he's learned from every opponent he's faced (a side affect of his battle pre-cog ability).

Plo Koon had fought in two wars also, but he was ripped apart.

Also, prove that Revan had extensive knowledge of all lightsaber forms. Then prove that Revan was able to access all of Tulak's holocron. Jedi and Sith set restrictions on their holocrons to keep knowledge from them until they were ready.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
4. Kreia herself said that fighting keeps you sharp but peace makes you dull, Revan was always in non-stop fighting opposed to kreia who sepnt a lot of time studying the effects of malachor on the force. Revan has more knowledge (seemingly it isn't 100% confirmed but it's a pretty simple deduction to make) more combat experience and he'll always be one step ahead,never mind his vast array of sith artifacts that increase his power from when he pretty muched stripped korriban of all sith knwoledge and artifacts.

Revan fought for about 5 years. That's far from non-stop. Also, he didn't strip all of Korriban. There were things still their for Palpatine 4000 years later. He got a VERY small amount of what was on it.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
The question is will Revan get through kreia before exile gets through bastilla and juhani, I say yes, then he could probably beat the exile.

I agree, but you made Revan to be far more powerful than he really is.

Darth_Frobo
well, lets see there are just a couple points you're a touch mistaken on here but i pretty much agree with you

1.Revan spent before during and after the mandalorian wars plunder sith ruins all over korriban and malachor and according to kotor 2 "he learned all he could" which just so happens to be pretty much a planet full of sith artifacts and teachings as well as from malachor, which is a lot.



2.No they do not do not mistake battle pre-cognition with the ability to see things through the force, pre-cog is much more advanced allowing some to predict the events of entire wars and know their enemies movements (in the heat of battle) in advance to the point where they'll know them before the jedi have even thought of them, and revans ability exceeded the greatest of echani masters who could do such things, jedi pre-cog is very weak 9with the exception of master yoda's and palpatines) and even then it is often flawed unlike echani pre-cog. Never mind that if Revan is a jedi wouldn't that mean he has both, pre-cog that's force assisted (making it better then non force assisted or force only)?


3.Revan "learned all he could" (as in all there was for him to know, I don't have a direct quote as my sith lords is on the lend but kreia pretty much says Revan learned from everything he was given). Next we have the holocron, it's shown in kotor master uthar accessing it, they aren't locked, merely hidden. As for plo koon, koon doesn't have revans knowledge or the same type of front lines melee experience not much of a comparison.

4.Revan fought more then kreia and more often then kreia rleative to the time he was alive which was what i was getting at. if you look into the backstory of Kotor you'd find out that not only did Revan plunder the tombs of all the ancient sith but he also had teams of archaelogists(i'm not quite sure how it's spelt) tear the ground apart looking for artifacts and knowledge, anything of any importance or anything was kept on Revan personally or in his quarters as sith don't share knowledge, he also has all of malachor which he studdied from opposed to kreia who merely used it to chanel the dark energies to study the force.

I'm not saying Revan is uber-powerful or godlike or anything, merely that i think he can handle himself against kreia, by no means do i wish to spout fanboyish nonsense, I'm merely presenting some of the reasons backing Revan, I think kreia could very well take him but for the moment i'm leaning a bit towards Revan.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Ianus
And I smell misinformation.

Sorgo, Kreia wanted the death of the Force. The Exile alone was capable of bringing that about, as the jedi masters foresaw. When they saught to remove the force from the Exile so he could not do so, she killed them. Kreia has no motive to kill the Exile, and considering she can wipe the floor with everyone else in the game (Save for perhaps Nihilus) it makes no sense she would lose to the Exile and then sit there and read his bloody fortune.

Um... Just Nihilus? As I recall, Sion kicked the shit out of her and cut her hand off. And what did we see Nihilis do to her? ZERO!

So, her Lightsaber dueling the Exile, and then sending FOUR Lightsabers after him wasn't trying to kill him? Please!

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
well, lets see there are just a couple points you're a touch mistaken on here but i pretty much agree with you

1.Revan spent before during and after the mandalorian wars plunder sith ruins all over korriban and malachor and according to kotor 2 "he learned all he could" which just so happens to be pretty much a planet full of sith artifacts and teachings as well as from malachor, which is a lot.

He did not learn all he could. I will explain this later in the post.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
2.No they do not do not mistake battle pre-cognition with the ability to see things through the force, pre-cog is much more advanced allowing some to predict the events of entire wars and know their enemies movements (in the heat of battle) in advance to the point where they'll know them before the jedi have even thought of them, and revans ability exceeded the greatest of echani masters who could do such things, jedi pre-cog is very weak 9with the exception of master yoda's and palpatines) and even then it is often flawed unlike echani pre-cog. Never mind that if Revan is a jedi wouldn't that mean he has both, pre-cog that's force assisted (making it better then non force assisted or force only)?

Echani pre-cog is harldy better. Look at what good it did Yusannis, or the Echani people as a hole. They lost to others often.

Jedi pre-cog isn't exactly weak either. Odan-urr's Master, for example, predicted the Great Hyperspace War decades before it happened. Kreia fforsaw the Death of Jango 4000 years in advance. Believe me, it's not weak.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
3.Revan "learned all he could" (as in all there was for him to know, I don't have a direct quote as my sith lords is on the lend but kreia pretty much says Revan learned from everything he was given). Next we have the holocron, it's shown in kotor master uthar accessing it, they aren't locked, merely hidden. As for plo koon, koon doesn't have revans knowledge or the same type of front lines melee experience not much of a comparison.

Hyperbole. He did not learn all he could as he never visited Nadd's tomb. Never visited Kressh's. There are plenty of things he didn't know.

THey can't access higher level information.

You said two wars, I said two wars.

Originally posted by Darth_Frobo
4.Revan fought more then kreia and more often then kreia rleative to the time he was alive which was what i was getting at. if you look into the backstory of Kotor you'd find out that not only did Revan plunder the tombs of all the ancient sith but he also had teams of archaelogists(i'm not quite sure how it's spelt) tear the ground apart looking for artifacts and knowledge, anything of any importance or anything was kept on Revan personally or in his quarters as sith don't share knowledge, he also has all of malachor which he studdied from opposed to kreia who merely used it to chanel the dark energies to study the force.

About five years of War time. That's not a ton really. Lord Hoth for example had over thirty years on the frontlines. SIX times more.

He also lacked time to study all that he found.

I'm not saying Revan is uber-powerful or godlike or anything, merely that i think he can handle himself against kreia, by no means do i wish to spout fanboyish nonsense, I'm merely presenting some of the reasons backing Revan, I think kreia could very well take him but for the moment i'm leaning a bit towards Revan.

I agree he could take Kreia, but he's not as powerful as you are making him to be.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Sorgo
Um... Just Nihilus? As I recall, Sion kicked the shit out of her and cut her hand off. And what did we see Nihilis do to her? ZERO!

So, her Lightsaber dueling the Exile, and then sending FOUR Lightsabers after him wasn't trying to kill him? Please!

C'mon now sorgo, didnt you see in the movie when Nihilus raises his hand and drains Kreia of the force? When Kreia says "There are some techniques through the force to which there is no defense." After Nihilus does all the important work all Sion does is beat up a powerless old lady.

The Overmaster
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
C'mon now sorgo, didnt you see in the movie when Nihilus raises his hand and drains Kreia of the force? When Kreia says "There are some techniques through the force to which there is no defense." After Nihilus does all the important work all Sion does is beat up a powerless old lady.

oh thats what he did, i thought he just force pushed her. It makes more sense for him having drained her, seeing as she chouldnt get her saber back.

Ianus
Dammit Glentract... stop mincing words.

All jedi do NOT have pre-cognition!

If they did, they could see the future clearly, which few if any can.

Now, that said, BATTLE preconition is defined as when a Force user has prediction in combat BETTER than normal jedi attunement. It doesn't replace Jedi Defense Feat either; it stacks with it, making the jedi who has it sick with defense. It is noted as being SIMILAR to what the Echani have, but since the Echani aren't all flippin' white haired jedi it would be hasty to say they all have Jedi Battle Precognition (Which is basically what Revan and the Exile have)

Now, while a normal jedi can do things as drastic as say, pod racing (Which requires being able to almost see things right before they happen) Battle Precognition is the next level of this. Perhaps even more efficient, who knows? In any case, Battle Precognition makes the Exile able to beat the handmaiden in combat. In case you don't realize how good that is, the guy (non force sensitive)_ whose name I bloody forget... anyways, there's a martial artist mercenary in Medstar I who practices echani (Among other styles) and he's beaten jedi in unarmed combat before.

Read that again. He was good enough to beat a jedi in unarmed combat. And jedi do do their share of learning it, even PT jedi. This doesn't exactly correlate and make Brianna uber, but since her style is particularly noted for its effectiveness and deadliness and the martial nature of the Echani, the Exile was quite good with the battle precognition to beat her three times. This might also explain why he even has a chance against greater opponents such as the jedi masters and Nihilus and Sion.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Ianus
Dammit Glentract... stop mincing words.

All jedi do NOT have pre-cognition!

If they did, they could see the future clearly, which few if any can.

Even Anakin had it in TPM. It was what made Jedi such good in melee combat and gave them the ability to deflect blaster bolts. All Jedi who can block a blaster bolt can see the future. Even untrained people were able to see into the future unconsciously.

Originally posted by Ianus
Now, that said, BATTLE preconition is defined as when a Force user has prediction in combat BETTER than normal jedi attunement. It doesn't replace Jedi Defense Feat either; it stacks with it, making the jedi who has it sick with defense. It is noted as being SIMILAR to what the Echani have, but since the Echani aren't all flippin' white haired jedi it would be hasty to say they all have Jedi Battle Precognition (Which is basically what Revan and the Exile have)

Okay.

Originally posted by Ianus
Now, while a normal jedi can do things as drastic as say, pod racing (Which requires being able to almost see things right before they happen) Battle Precognition is the next level of this. Perhaps even more efficient, who knows? In any case, Battle Precognition makes the Exile able to beat the handmaiden in combat. In case you don't realize how good that is, the guy (non force sensitive)_ whose name I bloody forget... anyways, there's a martial artist mercenary in Medstar I who practices echani (Among other styles) and he's beaten jedi in unarmed combat before.

Unarmed, yes, but Jedi don't spend as much time fighting unarmed as Echani do. There just insn't enough known about pre-cog.

Originally posted by Ianus
Read that again. He was good enough to beat a jedi in unarmed combat. And jedi do do their share of learning it, even PT jedi. This doesn't exactly correlate and make Brianna uber, but since her style is particularly noted for its effectiveness and deadliness and the martial nature of the Echani, the Exile was quite good with the battle precognition to beat her three times. This might also explain why he even has a chance against greater opponents such as the jedi masters and Nihilus and Sion.

He did have help against Nihilus and defeated Sions will. Could he have defeated them in a strait fight? Maybe.

Anyway, I would consider it sad if he wasn't able to defeat the Handmaiden seeing as he was one of Revan's top generals and probably sparred people approaching Malak's level.

Also, remember that she doesn't teach him pre-cog until after the first time they fight, yet he defeats her anyway.

Ianus
She doesn't teach it. It's discovered in the fighting, much like the Exile's other abilities are similiarly unlocked when need calls for them.

Veneficus
This fight is unfair if you ask me. While I think Revan could take Kreia one on one (yes go ahead and hate me) Bastila and Juhani are the weak links here and then throw in The Exile and Brianna and even Revan is screwed.

Darth_Glentract
Why would anyone hate you for being right about Revan?

Darth Traya
Because he's wrong?

Veneficus
Originally posted by Darth Traya
Because he's wrong?

I'm sorry I just can't see Kreia defeating Revan. We have two extreams for Revan here it seems. On one extreme he is Uber and can take Ragnos and the other he is as low as Mace Windu. I try to stick him in the middle or a little bit higher.

Yes Revan is a ***** to argue for...but logicaly it just seems to me that he could defeat Kreia. Yes I know you have a huge ass load of arguments against this...but I really don't care because there are plenty for Revan as well. Also the fact is I happen to be a sucky debater.

Atlantis001
Difficult to know.... Revan is the most poweful from all of them I think, he/she can take Kreya, but the Exile is also powerful, and maybe togheter with Kreya they can defeat Revan. So my opinion is that it is very balanced, so I will not take any side.

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