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Time: Infinite.
Emperor: Before fighting Horus.
Ragnos: Still alive, height of his power.
Setting: Mustafar
Parameters: Nothing like black hole exploding, sun crushing, etc. All else is fair game.
Picture: Since everyone here knows who Ragnos is, here is a pic of the Emperor.

I say Ragnos.

Why? Give me reasons, give me an explanation. Don't just give me a 3 word answer.

Ragnos was King of a civilization of people who were pratically gods.

The Emperor can bitchslap people that are Gods (if he ascends). Not a decent reason. Give me concrete evidence.

Ragnos can destroys stars in just a few seconds.

Give me some reasons for the Emperor.

And show that the Emperor could have controlled trillions of those gods.

THAT'S the Emperor?

Which Emperor are we talking about?

Originally posted by Tangible God
THAT'S the Emperor?

Which Emperor are we talking about?

Ditto.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ragnos can destroys stars in just a few seconds.

Give me some reasons for the Emperor.

And show that the Emperor could have controlled trillions of those gods.

Actually its never stated anywhere that Ragnos blew up any stars. And there were not trillions of sith and they were not all gods. Ragnos is powerful but stop exaggerating him to the point of insanity.

And who is this emperor you speak of?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Actually its never stated anywhere that Ragnos blew up any stars. And there were not trillions of sith and they were not all gods. Ragnos is powerful but stop exaggerating him to the point of insanity.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Actually its never stated anywhere that Ragnos blew up any stars. And there were not trillions of sith and they were not all gods. Ragnos is powerful but stop exaggerating him to the point of insanity.

The Sith Empire was stated as about a third of the size of the Republic, I believe. There were over 365 trillion people in the Republic. How can there not be several trillion Sith?

Ragnos was FAR more powerful than people who DID blow up Stars by merely waving their hands.

If there were people who could destroy stars in mere seconds, it makes sense that even if someone was much weaker than Naga that they could still destroy a star, it would just take longer and more concentration.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Sith Empire was stated as about a third of the size of the Republic, I believe. There were over 365 trillion people in the Republic. How can there not be several trillion Sith?

Ragnos was FAR more powerful than people who DID blow up Stars by merely waving their hands.

If there were people who could destroy stars in mere seconds, it makes sense that even if someone was much weaker than Naga that they could still destroy a star, it would just take longer and more concentration.

About the sith empire and 365 trillion people in the republic, thats great and all but give us a source please.

As for Ragnos, yes its reasonable to assume he was more powerful than Naga...Yet just because hes more powerful you cant just assume he can still blow up stars. Naga is the only one who has ever done this, how do you know it isnt a unique ability? Exar Kun used sith technology and not his own power to do it if you were going to bring him up.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
About the sith empire and 365 trillion people in the republic, thats great and all but give us a source please.

TUF, there were 365 trillion recorded deaths in the Yuuzhan Vong War. That's just the recorded ones and there were still a lot of people in the galaxy.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
As for Ragnos, yes its reasonable to assume he was more powerful than Naga...Yet just because hes more powerful you cant just assume he can still blow up stars. Naga is the only one who has ever done this, how do you know it isnt a unique ability? Exar Kun used sith technology and not his own power to do it if you were going to bring him up.

You can't prove he can't and it is unreasonable to unassume that out of the blue.

so what if he can't prove he can't blow up stars if we don't know if he did blow up stars we can't just say hmm yes he can do it because someone lesser than him can. and naga didn't just wave his hand and boom the star blew up it's probably hard as hell to do.

i say ragnos would win because he was the ruler of the sith for 150 years UNCHALLENGED not by naga or freedon nadd that says something about the guy. other than that we don't really know much about ragnos.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
so what if he can't prove he can't blow up stars if we don't know if he did blow up stars we can't just say hmm yes he can do it because someone lesser than him can. and naga didn't just wave his hand and boom the star blew up it's probably hard as hell to do.

Go read the comic. It takes him mere seconds to destroy the star. After, he doesn't look especially weak or anything either.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
i say ragnos would win because he was the ruler of the sith for 150 years UNCHALLENGED not by naga or freedon nadd that says something about the guy. other than that we don't really know much about ragnos.

He died before Nadd was born .

Erm... For all we know Ragnos could create blackholes on the opposite side of the galaxy. To imagine his power was more or less without anything concrete is premature. this thread is imbalanced based on lack of evidence.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Go read the comic. It takes him mere seconds to destroy the star. After, he doesn't look especially weak or anything either.



He died before Nadd was born .

damn ludo kressh sorry i'm quite tired right now. but come on do you honeslty think it wouldn't be hard to blow up a star?

For anyone other than an Ancient Sith, yes.

I would say the Emperor, the Emperor's psychic abilities are far more powerful than Ragnos'.

But again, this is speculative answer, not definite one. Be mindful of that. We have no clear gauge of Ragnos' abilities, only his reputation.

Bah, then why the Ragnos v 40k threads? I personally don't know about him (buying TOTJ over the weekend), but I'm guessing that since everyone sprays their shorts when he's mentioned, it's fairly obvious he's an uber badass.
BTW, this is the WARHAMME 40,000 EMPEROR.

Well, the problem with Warhammer (besides the fact that it's every other thread now) is that the characters can be quite uber and overall are poor matches.

Well, you realise that's just SM's right? pretty much all else (except for a few) would get pwned by SW.

Yeah, I know that much.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Well, you realise that's just SM's right? pretty much all else (except for a few) would get pwned by SW.

Hmmmm, well then. The imperial guard are probably worse than standerd SW forces, but then again there are quite a lot of guardsmen.

The tyranids are like super twinked up vong except they have no seperate personality, they are a gesalt conciance.

Chaos is well Chaos. and they have space marines.

Orks are things that live in war. plus kill one 3 months later 4 pop out of the ground(literally)

Eldar are psychically powerful and technologically powerful.

The Necrons basic gun strips a person of matter until their ash.

And then the navies of these respective races are hideously powerful. Why blow a planet up with a deathstar when cyclone missiles work just as well. Hell the eldar live on ships about the size of moons.


As for Ragnos and the Emperor, I'd say the Emperor. He is the singuly most powerful psyker to ever live. And he has exsisted since about 8000BC in one guise or other. If Ragnos could blow up a star, then the Emperor can create warp storms. Which is more destructive, I have no idea. But I doubt either of them would do this in battle just because of the side effect of them dying in the proscess. However the emperor has also fried the minds of armies while controlling a giant beacon in the warp so his ships could navigate through the warp. Not that he liked to do this, but sometimes it was nescesary. As for personal gear, the emperor is armoured in the finest suit of powered armour ever made. He is armed with a force weapon, and at his level of power, it probably is the most deadly weapon in exsistence. The battle between Horus and the Emperor was not fought in the physical sence, but fought between the psykic power of the emperor and the Chaos gods. Ragnos has no warp power and is virtually unprotected against the warp. The Emperor should burn out his mind in seconds.

Is the Emperor unprotected by the Force though?

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Is the Emperor unprotected by the Force though?

I'd figure he is. But then again the emperor has more protection against the force than ragnos with the warp. Anything I know about the force doesn't kill so fast that the emperor cannot fry ragnos' brain.

Err, Stratigo, in a straight out brawl, the SW Imperial Navy would probably own the Imperial Navy.

Originally posted by Gryn Jabar
Err, Stratigo, in a straight out brawl, the SW Imperial Navy would probably own the Imperial Navy.


hmmmm what now? The size of a star destroyer is about the size of an imperial frigate. not only that but the weapon yeilds for the Imperium's weapons are a lot more powerful than Star Wars. and to hold up against that, sheilding is more powerful as well.

... Prove it. Give me some stats (and a decent source) for the weapon yields. And the shielding.

ship sizes you can find on mezro.com

And SW weapon yeilds are really really funky as the laws of physics don't seem to apply in star wars. They are a few gigatonnes as far as I know though.

an imperial broadside reaches a few teratonnes.

I forgot the source where I got those, but believe me I didn't make them up as I have no idea what those words mean, other than teratonnes is bigger than gigatonnes(damn funky science jarble).

but here this link right here http://forum.spacebattles.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4 will get you some info if you post there.

Context?



Add perspective.



Substantiate.



Sustain.



Context?



Perspective?



Substantiate.



Corroborate.



Prove.



Validate.



Verify.



List, and add context.



And?



Okay?



Oh yay, let's debate what you can't understand.



You can't simply spew out grandiose language and faux facts without any context or substance and expect to win a debate. Everything you've said in this fight either was not made relevant or doesn't prove anything.

Originally posted by Stratigo
ship sizes you can find on mezro.com

And SW weapon yeilds are really really funky as the laws of physics don't seem to apply in star wars. They are a few gigatonnes as far as I know though.

an imperial broadside reaches a few teratonnes.

I forgot the source where I got those, but believe me I didn't make them up as I have no idea what those words mean, other than teratonnes is bigger than gigatonnes(damn funky science jarble).

The Imperium breaks the laws of physics too. Pretty much every sifi universe does.

I can't get to mezro.com for some reason. Then, prove that each Imerium ship releases the broadside you describe(which still isn't very imressive next to SW. Why should anyone believe you? Provide some proof.

DAMN.

Yeah, Illustrious pretty much put your argument to the test. You provided NOTHING to compare the two at all, just a bunch of hyperbole and exaggerated claims like "teh most powerfullest aromour of all times"

Using the "Ash law of Badassness", the Emperor takes this. Hell, as a cannibal cripple he STILL kicks ass.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Imperium breaks the laws of physics too. Pretty much every sifi universe does.

I can't get to mezro.com for some reason. Then, prove that each Imerium ship releases the broadside you describe(which still isn't very imressive next to SW. Why should anyone believe you? Provide some proof.

But at least they try and explain how they manage it. The warp doesn't abide by the laws of physics. Though a lot of what they do I admit make not as much sence as it should. At least they aren't turned light into swords.


A broadside is just shooting all weapons on the side of a ship.
But really I don't have all the time it would take to discuss the Imperial navy or other races because that would take a few hours. Plus those unfamilier with WH would probalby not unterstand what I am saying and like I said I am no tech guy. Its like me asking you to describe the vessels of the Empire, what their weapon powers are, what they shoot with, what they use to shield, and such.

Substantiate what? The Emperor is the singely most powerful psyker ever. Not much I can add there. He has the most control on the warp of any living thing outside of the warp itself and maybe the ancients. He has lived since the dawn of time. I have no idea how or why or if it is a series of reincarnations. I just know that it says that he has. Gameworkshop purposefully with holds lots of information so that people can speculate. It isn't like in star wars where it is like "Ragnos was born here at this time and he did this this and this".

A warp storm is a rip in warp space and real space. It can destroy planets, or entire systems. The emperor can create one using his mind. He tries not to because he wants to conquer, not blow up, everything.


Imperial ships achive FTL travel through the warp. The astronomican is a psychic beacon. It is like a lighthouse. The emperor at the time sustained it by himself and fought at the same time. He can use his powers to invade somone's mind and ldestroy the concious and subconcious.

Power Armour itself is very hard to penetrate. At the level of technology during the Golden Age(when the Emperor ruled) was such that power armour was alot better. The power armour the emperor was given was worked on by the best Adapts and given the best machine spirit.

A force weapon is a power sword(a blade with an energy feild) that is powered by psychic energy. The emperor is the most powerful psyker. It goes to show that the power of his weapon is very very great.

The battle between horus is just to show that the emperor could defeat gods.

Some fprce powers came be overcome by force of will. The emperor can do that easily. others don't kill immediantly if at all. The warp can only be overcome by another warp user.

http://www.merzo.net/ there we go. there are your ship sizes. Go to -10x. Note the first ship is a super star destroyer, not a standerd one.

Aaaaaah here we go. best place I know to get quick stuff on WH 40k http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=51651.

Originally posted by Stratigo
But at least they try and explain how they manage it. The warp doesn't abide by the laws of physics. Though a lot of what they do I admit make not as much sence as it should. At least they aren't turned light into swords.

It's not light. Go do your own research and take some time to educate yourself.

Originally posted by Stratigo
A broadside is just shooting all weapons on the side of a ship.
But really I don't have all the time it would take to discuss the Imperial navy or other races because that would take a few hours. Plus those unfamilier with WH would probalby not unterstand what I am saying and like I said I am no tech guy. Its like me asking you to describe the vessels of the Empire, what their weapon powers are, what they shoot with, what they use to shield, and such.

If you don't want to spend the effort on something to follow through on it, don't start it.

Yes we are asking you to describe that. I can describe the Imerials Ships.

Originally posted by Stratigo
http://www.merzo.net/ there we go. there are your ship sizes. Go to -10x. Note the first ship is a super star destroyer, not a standerd one.

I'm sorry, but that is just sad.

First, it is obvious that is a SSD, it even says it is one. That's pratically an insult to say it.

Second, that site is outdated. It states 12.8 km and the official length of the SSD, which is old. It was increased to 19 km after several visual renditions were done. Go check SW.com, it's official.

It also puts the DS2 at 160 km, which is not true. Like the Executor, it was changed to 900 km. That site has bad sources.

Notice, you are also only comparing sizes, not power levels.

Originally posted by Stratigo
Aaaaaah here we go. best place I know to get quick stuff on WH 40k http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=51651.

It's a forum, it's not official. In anycase, it showed nothing about powerlevel of ships anywhere.

Imp Navy (40k) ships aren't as good as SW ships, though use of the warp might change this SIGNIFICANTLY.

And you didn't substantiate or add context to anything.

"The Emperor is the most powerful blah blah blah ever."

Okay? And Ragnos is the most powerful Sith ever. What's your point?

Where's the context to the situation? Where's the meat of your argument? Throwing out a bunch of stuff only applicable to WH doesn't mean he beats Ragnos. DE Sidious tossed entire fleets, what does that demonstrate without context? Nothing. What is the point of your ridiculously long-winded-without-saying-anything posts?

Non-SW thread. Closing.