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What if science proved that there was some kind of intelligence behind everything, but not what everyone was taught about their view of god...The one god that's mentioned in scripture.....Would you leave your denomination?.....Would you ignore it?....Would you try to combine it with your belief....

How would that affect your thinking and change your life.

I would research then go life is poinless and you can't believe anything anymore.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
I would research then go life is poinless and you can't believe anything anymore.

i think it's tragically funny that when a belief that you have no proof for whatsoever gets proved wrong (eg: Catholicism)... and you are, in fact, shown the truth (Intelligence that thread starter mentions) that this is the point where you think there's nothing to believe in

definition of irony

you believe what can't be proved, but you can't believe what you have been shown to be the absolute truth



this is what's wrong with the world.... people are too stuck on their beliefs. they are stubborn and completely unwilling to change a point of view.... it only leads so segregation, prejudice and war

I ask myself if it would be in poor taste to say "Told ya so..."

Originally posted by Scoobless
i think it's tragically funny that when a belief that you have no proof for whatsoever gets proved wrong (eg: Catholicism)... and you are, in fact, shown the truth (Intelligence that thread starter mentions) that this is the point where you think there's nothing to believe in

definition of irony

you believe what can't be proved, but you can't believe what you been shown to be the absolute truth



this is what's wrong with the world.... people are too stuck on their beliefs. they are stubborn and completely unwilling to change a point of view.... it only leads so segregation, prejudice and war

AMEN!

I would change my belief. However, my practice would stay the same. Chanting has done a great deal of good in my life.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i think it's tragically funny that when a belief that you have no proof for whatsoever gets proved wrong (eg: Catholicism)... and you are, in fact, shown the truth (Intelligence that thread starter mentions) that this is the point where you think there's nothing to believe in

definition of irony

you believe what can't be proved, but you can't believe what you have been shown to be the absolute truth



this is what's wrong with the world.... people are too stuck on their beliefs. they are stubborn and completely unwilling to change a point of view.... it only leads so segregation, prejudice and war

so go curse at God right now and crap in the church

It's funny how theres more people that don't believe in God that are in the damn RELIGION forum.

Originally posted by TwisterGameX
It's funny how theres more people that don't believe in God that are in the damn RELIGION forum.

I think you're looking for the sycophant forum, you do realise that a debate requires at least two points of view... don't you?

Originally posted by Scoobless
I think you're looking for the sycophant forum, you do realise that a debate requires at least two points of view... don't you?

I would embrace the truth and take the best of my old belifes and apply them to this new truth.However,since I don't realy have a whole lot of fixed belifes,I don't think it would hurt me too much.In a few years though they would probably say something else and say what they thought was the truth to be wrong.

Id hold myself to equal moral standards either way. I wouldnt just say "jee, theres no god, so I guess I can be the biggest a$$hole possible and not suffer for it."

Theres something to be said for intrinsic motivation.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i think it's tragically funny that when a belief that you have no proof for whatsoever gets proved wrong (eg: Catholicism)... and you are, in fact, shown the truth (Intelligence that thread starter mentions) that this is the point where you think there's nothing to believe in

definition of irony

you believe what can't be proved, but you can't believe what you have been shown to be the absolute truth



this is what's wrong with the world.... people are too stuck on their beliefs. they are stubborn and completely unwilling to change a point of view.... it only leads so segregation, prejudice and war

I think the biggest irony is that some people don't realize that there is a difference between science and faith

Originally posted by Echuu
I think the biggest irony is that some people don't realize that there is a difference between science and faith

I think everyone realises that there is

but that's not the point of this thread

book

Originally posted by Scoobless
I think everyone realises that there is

but that's not the point of this thread

book

No but your statement is essentially worthless because there IS a difference in science and faith. And since your statement had to do with the topic my response to your statement did also.

Originally posted by Echuu
No but your statement is essentially worthless because there IS a difference in science and faith. And since your statement had to do with the topic my response to your statement did also.

but the (theoretical) point is:

Originally posted by debbiejo
What if science proved that there was some kind of intelligence behind everything, but not what everyone was taught about their view of god...The one god that's mentioned in scripture.....Would you leave your denomination?.....Would you ignore it?....Would you try to combine it with your belief....

How would that affect your thinking and change your life.

your faith or believe has already been proved wrong to you if you KNOW, beyond any shadow of a doubt that your faith was wrong... how would that affect you?

nothing more, nothing less... it's not a question of how strong your faith was, it's simply "what would you do if you knew your faith was wrong"?

the difference between science and faith doesn't come into it

Originally posted by Scoobless
the difference between science and faith doesn't come into it

Yes it does.

Science can't explain how Jesus was able to walk on water; and in fact scientifically it would be impossible wouldn't it? It doesn't change my beliefe and faith in him.

Originally posted by Echuu
Yes it does.

Science can't explain how Jesus was able to walk on water; and in fact scientifically it would be impossible wouldn't it? It doesn't change my beliefe and faith in him.

if you're just going to ignore the ENTIRE point off the thread then why post in it?

this is purely theoretical... we're not asking you to actually give up your faith.... we just want to know how you would feel/what you would do, IF if was proven to YOUR satisfaction that the beliefs you held were wrong?

Yes...how would people react to it........so far it's funny no one said ignore the evidence....

Originally posted by Echuu
Yes it does.

Science can't explain how Jesus was able to walk on water; and in fact scientifically it would be impossible wouldn't it? It doesn't change my beliefe and faith in him.


What if one of the discipleswas drunk and Jesus was in a puddle of water........yeah know drunk friends always mess up stories

Originally posted by Echuu
Science can't explain how Jesus was able to walk on water; and in fact scientifically it would be impossible wouldn't it?

it's a fairly easy to perform trick though.... magicians do it often... it's been seen in many films, I could do it with a few days to prepare

It will be like one more scientific discovery for me, it would be a good thing that will provide more information about the nature of God than I already know, and I can use it to learn more. If it conflicts with my old view, it would be just less important details I think, the philosophical idea of a God will be the same.

Seriously, if science does prove religion wrong, I can totally imagine so many people commiting mass suicide, for varies reasons (must prove they are wrong by going to heaven, no meaning to life, etc). Thank God I won't be one of them

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Seriously, if science does prove religion wrong, I can totally imagine so many people commiting mass suicide, for varies reasons (must prove they are wrong by going to heaven, no meaning to life, etc). Thank God I won't be one of them

you mean "thank science"



lol

Why would people despair?....It still means that their is something bigger than what is taught by scripture...It should be a freeing thing......Lets say you can interact with it and be heard....but not a condemning force...

i would search out more answers

Originally posted by debbiejo
What if science proved that there was some kind of intelligence behind everything, but not what everyone was taught about their view of god...The one god that's mentioned in scripture.....Would you leave your denomination?.....Would you ignore it?....Would you try to combine it with your belief....

How would that affect your thinking and change your life.

But this isn't the question, it's "What would YOU do if a different belief proved yours wrong?"

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
But this isn't the question, it's "What would YOU do if a different belief proved yours wrong?"

I think she would adapt; how about you?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think she would adapt; how about you?

I would research, heavily, for holes and otherwise.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
I would research, heavily, for holes and otherwise.

In other words, you would not accept the information. OK. What if, after extensive research, you could not dispute the information, would you disregard it and stay with your current faith?

Originally posted by debbiejo
What if science proved that there was some kind of intelligence behind everything, but not what everyone was taught about their view of god...The one god that's mentioned in scripture.....Would you leave your denomination?.....Would you ignore it?....Would you try to combine it with your belief....

How would that affect your thinking and change your life.
You see the irony is that science has already proved that the creation is because of a intelligent design, not just some accidental event. Which now makes me wonder if you would think that if intelligence is "behind" all, does that mean that God is not intelligence? So to me science has proven what the Bible tell us, that is that God is the intelligence behind all of creation.

Originally posted by sonnet
You see the irony is that science has already proved that the creation is because of a intelligent design, not just some accidental event. Which now makes me wonder if you would think that if intelligence is "behind" all, does that mean that God is not intelligence? So to me science has proven what the Bible tell us, that is that God is the intelligence behind all of creation.

Some Quantum fields have suggested that there is could be some intelligence at work, but what I am talking about is something being proved that is outside the Bible or Koran...something that is already at work and could be known or interacted with by everybody, even non believers of scripture....Not limited to a particular religion.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Some Quantum fields have suggested that there is could be some intelligence at work, but what I am talking about is something being proved that is outside the Bible or Koran...something that is already at work and could be known or interacted with by everybody, even non believers of scripture....Not limited to a particular religion.
As you know I believe that God created the universe and put the laws of physics there so that all can exist and at some point in time man started to discover the complexity of this creation and physics and so on. They called it science. The universe/creation and God is for everybody, but I believe we made up our own theories because many people chose not to believe in a creator. That is why science is seen today as a threat to religion, not because it realy is but because it is looked at, from different point of views and religions. Many religions say that if you believe in science you cannot believe in God. I say it is not true because God is the creator of what we call science.

And if science discovered that anyone could communicate with god regardless of their belief system?......Then would that change any of your beliefs?

Originally posted by debbiejo
And if science discovered that anyone could communicate with god regardless of their belief system?......Then would that change any of your beliefs?
That is part of the irony to me because I believe that anyone who truly wants to, can communicate with God. So it still wont change my beliefs. I do realise that we all differ in our perception and understanding of God because of influences, whether through people or situations. Many christians believe that God is only interested in christians but they are wrong.

Originally posted by sonnet
That is part of the irony to me because I believe that anyone who truly wants to, can communicate with God. So it still wont change my beliefs. I do realise that we all differ in our perception and understanding of God because of influences, whether through people or situations. Many christians believe that God is only interested in christians but they are wrong. Cool....what about Shamans, Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists?....

Lets say science proved that it didn't matter what a belief was, but all go back to where they come from...Like the scripture that says "the spirit returns to go who gave it"

Originally posted by sonnet
You see the irony is that science has already proved that the creation is because of a intelligent design, not just some accidental event.Care to back that up by providing me with multiple peer-reviewed articles published in reputable scientific journals?

Jebus, even in a hypothetical scenario people are so rigid as to not be able to answer the simple question posed.

If the evidences presented held against scrutiny and were proven unequivocably then I'd accept the new theory, however it would still be subject to any evidence presented subsequently. It would however have no substantive impact on my life whatsoever.

Originally posted by sonnet
That is part of the irony to me because I believe that anyone who truly wants to, can communicate with God. So it still wont change my beliefs. I do realise that we all differ in our perception and understanding of God because of influences, whether through people or situations. Many christians believe that God is only interested in christians but they are wrong.

I do believe that a great number of Christians only care about Christians. It sounds like you are an exception.

Originally posted by sonnet
You see the irony is that science has already proved that the creation is because of a intelligent design, not just some accidental event. Which now makes me wonder if you would think that if intelligence is "behind" all, does that mean that God is not intelligence? So to me science has proven what the Bible tell us, that is that God is the intelligence behind all of creation.

you'll like this thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f11/t376417.html

Originally posted by debbiejo
What if science proved that there was some kind of intelligence behind everything, but not what everyone was taught about their view of god...The one god that's mentioned in scripture.....Would you leave your denomination?.....Would you ignore it?....Would you try to combine it with your belief....

How would that affect your thinking and change your life.

I would embrace it - why ignore the truth.

Scientist have already tried to disprove the Bible. Many times and many times have Failed. Ex. They said if the Jews Crossed theRed Sea like the Torah says (old testament) then they would find egyption Stuff like chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. so they looked and found Axiles to chariot wheels, Chariots (dismantled thousands of pounds of water suddenly smacking you will do that to things.) covered of course with algea and corel. If you want proof of this i have a DVD that i can send you free of charge all i need is an address.

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
. They said if the Jews Crossed theRed Sea like the Torah says (old testament) then they would find egyption Stuff like chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. so they looked and found Axiles to chariot wheels, Chariots (dismantled thousands of pounds of water suddenly smacking you will do that to things.) covered of course with algea and corel. If you want proof of this i have a DVD that i can send you free of charge all i need is an address.

I saw a video on that also...was interesting..

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
Scientist have already tried to disprove the Bible. Many times and many times have Failed. Ex. They said if the Jews Crossed theRed Sea like the Torah says (old testament) then they would find egyption Stuff like chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea. so they looked and found Axiles to chariot wheels, Chariots (dismantled thousands of pounds of water suddenly smacking you will do that to things.) covered of course with algea and corel. If you want proof of this i have a DVD that i can send you free of charge all i need is an address.

But how does that prove existance of God?

Because God parted the red sea down the middle then when the pharoh charged his people in the middle of the red sea God let the waters fall and killed the pharohs. thus leaving their chariots and whatnot under water.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Cool....what about Shamans, Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists?....

Lets say science proved that it didn't matter what a belief was, but all go back to where they come from...Like the scripture that says "the spirit returns to go who gave it"
I doubt if science can "prove" that one can communicate with God because science are still looking for God. Communication with God starts with faith in God whatever that might mean to the individual. I believe that anyone who seeks God will find him through faith. I do not know if the spirits of ancesters are the equivalent to God for ex. American Indians. I do not know much about their religious structure other than the role of ancestors spirits. As atheists do not believe in the existance of God or a God a do not believe that communicating with God is an issue for them. I do believe that God is there for them if they should acknowledge Him.

Originally posted by sonnet
I doubt if science can "prove" that one can communicate with God because science are still looking for God. Communication with God starts with faith in God whatever that might mean to the individual. . Though in many quantum science fields, it has been said that there is something that is interacting with us and can be drawn to us...Even on the Science channel, they went o far as to say "this seems to prove there is a god"..it interacts with ALL of us regardless...I've referred to it as the "Law of Attraction"...It does communicate on another level...It is quite powerful...It gives you what you dwell on, and from my own experience, I do meditate and I do get real answers...like right away....I think there is more to what we would call "God" then what most understand.....As with Atheists or other groups, it really doesn't matter at all what a person believes, because what ever is...just is...I believe we are all one....everything...One big conglomerate of what it is.

When ever I hear something...I do research it...and that was my vote...And doing research, I've come to shed my old belief and go with what I have learned which, I might add, started with quantum studies, then it opened doors to what some might call "evil", but that was only a label the church placed on it......If you knew it was proven to be bigger...would you change your beliefs, or try to combine them?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Care to back that up by providing me with multiple peer-reviewed articles published in reputable scientific journals?
If the evidences presented held against scrutiny and were proven unequivocably then I'd accept the new theory, however it would still be subject to any evidence presented subsequently. It would however have no substantive impact on my life whatsoever.
Take the E. Coli bacterial flagellum as example. It is a irreducibly complex system, composed of multiple parts including a stator, rotor, drive shaft, U-joint and propellar. The microscopic parts come in focus when magnified 50,000 times with a electron micrograph. All of these parts are necessary for the system to function. Every individual part is integral. If you remove any one part the system will fail to function. There is absolute no naturalistic, gradual evolutionary explanation for this bacterial flagellum. (Michael Behe, Darwin's Black Box, 1996)
David M Raup, an evolutionist freely admits, "in the years after after Darwin, his advocates hoped to find predictable progressions. In general these have not been found- yet the optimism died hard and some pure fantasy has crept into textbooks." (Evolution and the Fossil Record, Science, vol 213, July 1981. There has been fraudulant evidences in favor of evolution submitted into textbooks despite their exposure as blatant deceptions. Ernst Heackle's work is example. He was a German embryologist who altered drawings of animal and human embryo's making them almost identical to prove evolution between the species and to promote evolution. In 1874 his drawings were exposed as frauds by Wilhelm His, a renowened embryologist.Haeckel was convicted of fraud yet his fruadulant drawings are still in textbooks today. The DNA molecule is another example of intelligent design, the incredible micro, digital, error-correcting, redundant, self duplicating information storage and retrieval sysytem with it own coherent language convention. Lets look at the basic formula : Creation states that matter + energy + information = incredibly complex life. Evolution states that matter + energy+ random change = incredibly complex life. We do not need scientific proof of a creator, it is evident in the creation around us.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Though in many quantum science fields, it has been said that there is something that is interacting with us and can be drawn to us...Even on the Science channel, they went o far as to say "this seems to prove there is a god"..it interacts with ALL of us regardless...I've referred to it as the "Law of Attraction"...It does communicate on another level...It is quite powerful...It gives you what you dwell on, and from my own experience, I do meditate and I do get real answers...like right away....I think there is more to what we would call "God" then what most understand.....As with Atheists or other groups, it really doesn't matter at all what a person believes, because what ever is...just is...I believe we are all one....everything...One big conglomerate of what it is.

When ever I hear something...I do research it...and that was my vote...And doing research, I've come to shed my old belief and go with what I have learned which, I might add, started with quantum studies, then it opened doors to what some might call "evil", but that was only a label the church placed on it......If you knew it was proven to be bigger...would you change your beliefs, or try to combine them?
I do not regard science as the alpha and omega of information. I studied B.Sc. (Science) at university with subjects like genetic science, Zoology, including evolution, and I finished my Honors degree. I did learn also that there are many hypothetical theories, and flaws in some of the theories so I won't change my believes on the basis of a scientific theory or "proof" but wil let my spirit guide me.

Originally posted by sonnet
I do not regard science as the alpha and omega of information. I studied B.Sc. (Science) at university with subjects like genetic science, Zoology, including evolution, and I finished my Honors degree. I did learn also that there are many hypothetical theories, and flaws in some of the theories so I won't change my believes on the basis of a scientific theory or "proof" but wil let my spirit guide me. But not researching the latest theories and experimenting with them ie..testing them, would be ignorance of what has been found out...and then feeling that only one way is correct and the others are damned wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
Because God parted the red sea down the middle then when the pharoh charged his people in the middle of the red sea God let the waters fall and killed the pharohs. thus leaving their chariots and whatnot under water.

Finding chariots at the bottom of the ocean can mean many things - there is no evidence the sea was ever parted, nor that it was god who did it.

I can write down that God caused the colapse of the twin towers, and thousands of years from now, someone can start digging around New York and find evidence that there were twin towers and that they were destroyed.

That however does not prove that God did it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
But not researching the latest theories and experimenting with them ie..testing them, would be ignorance of what has been found out...and then feeling that only one way is correct and the others are damned wouldn't it?
The Bible actually teaches us through scripture to test all things and keep the good. To me that means keep that which is feels "good" in your spirit. That is why I said I will be guided by my spirit.

Originally posted by sonnet
The Bible actually teaches us through scripture to test all things and keep the good. To me that means keep that which is feels "good" in your spirit. That is why I said I will be guided by my spirit.

Well that's good, but what does your religion say about the others view on god or not god? And they still have the fruits of "The truth of goodness"....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well that's good, but what does your religion say about the others view on god or not god? And they still have the fruits of "The truth of goodness"....
My religion teaches me that people from other beliefs will have different views on God and His existance. Not everybody believes as Christians do, or Bhudists do etc. It is a matter of faith for everybody. The fruits of "The truth of goodness"...., this is not from the Bible so I could not comment on that. Unless you meant the fruits of the spirit. But this has nothing to do with science!

Originally posted by sonnet
My religion teaches me that people from other beliefs will have different views on God and His existance. Not everybody believes as Christians do, or Bhudists do etc. It is a matter of faith for everybody. The fruits of "The truth of goodness"...., this is not from the Bible so I could not comment on that. Unless you meant the fruits of the spirit. But this has nothing to do with science!

You have a pretty good attitude,
for a Christian.

Originally posted by sonnet
My religion teaches me that people from other beliefs will have different views on God and His existance. Not everybody believes as Christians do, or Bhudists do etc. It is a matter of faith for everybody. The fruits of "The truth of goodness"...., this is not from the Bible so I could not comment on that. Unless you meant the fruits of the spirit. But this has nothing to do with science!

Fruits of goodness=fruits of the spirit ...OK

Then can a non believer have them, and does it make the after death experience and the destination the same? ....And if science could prove that all go to the same destination then what would that do to your belief?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Fruits of goodness=fruits of the spirit ...OK

Then can a non believer have them, and does it make the after death experience and the destination the same? ....And if science could prove that all go to the same destination then what would that do to your belief?
I suspect that what you want to hear is if I believe that non christians can have the fruits of the spirit too. Of course they can because it comes from your spirit and your heart. Love is the fruit of the recreated human spirit. It has various facets such as joy, peace longsuffering,gentleness,kindness,goodness,meeknes
s, self-control and faith. Many people even christians only show some of these facets some times but the Bible says that if we truly grow spirituly we must show all of these all the time and never be guided by our emotions. Many christians have a front of faith and goodness but inside they are nothing like they should be. So I guess even christians could be without the fruits of the spirit. Take the story of Cornelius, the Roman in Acts. The Bible says he was not a believer but a good man and God saw that and took note of his good works. God spoke to his spirit and told him what to do. The rest you probably know. My faith says that the destination of all man will not be the same for the reasons you are well aware of. My faith is not dependant on what science finds because we already know that science has changed its opinion about issues many times as knowledge increases so no my faith will stand strong because I believe in the word of God not the interpretations and wisdom of man.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have a pretty good attitude,
for a Christian.
I'll take that as a compliment.
Many christians think that they have to go out and spread the Gospel and beg and threaten and force people into believing and salvation. Jesus never did that so why should we assume that we have to. and No man can "save" another person, salvation or enlightenment whatever you want to call it comes through the spirit and heart. We can only act as tools to bring the message. I believe that God does not even always need man but can speak to anybody through their spirit, through visions or dreams or even situations. As I said I believe everybody knows God and/or of God because we are spiritual beings. It is our ideas and perceptions of Him that differs and that can be quite understandable because of for one the huge cultural differences in the world. I also do not believe that God communicated to everybody in the same way.

Originally posted by sonnet
I suspect that what you want to hear is if I believe that non Christians can have the fruits of the spirit too. Of course they can because it comes from your spirit and your heart. Love is the fruit of the recreated human spirit. It has various facets such as joy, peace longsuffering,gentleness,kindness,goodness,meeknes
s, self-control and faith. . So then a Shaman exhibiting the fruits would be allowed into heaven?....His religion is a different bases than a Christians...and many sciences would go hand and hand with that of metaphysics which would include wicca....

Originally posted by debbiejo
So then a Shaman exhibiting the fruits would be allowed into heaven?....His religion is a different bases than a Christians...and many sciences would go hand and hand with that of metaphysics which would include wicca....
You know what the christian faith says about heaven and who will go there. Having a good heart and other fruits of the spirit does give you a "guaranteed pass" into heaven. And you know that I am talking from a Christian perspective. Science will never proove that any religion is better than another because it is a matter of faith. If I were to base my religion on scientific evidence and change it as the years go by then I did not have any faith to begin with. If science all of a sudden came with "proof" that there is no God will all religions fail and disappear? Sertainly not because faith is based on your spirit and spirituality which is about the relationship you have with God. Spirituality is not guided by our senses. Science is not spiritual because it is based on the physical and senses.

Originally posted by sonnet
You know what the christian faith says about heaven and who will go there. Having a good heart and other fruits of the spirit does give you a "guaranteed pass" into heaven. And you know that I am talking from a Christian perspective. Science will never proove that any religion is better than another because it is a matter of faith. If I were to base my religion on scientific evidence and change it as the years go by then I did not have any faith to begin with. If science all of a sudden came with "proof" that there is no God will all religions fail and disappear? Sertainly not because faith is based on your spirit and spirituality which is about the relationship you have with God. Spirituality is not guided by our senses. Science is not spiritual because it is based on the physical and senses. You missed the whole point....If it could be proved, then would you...They are learning new things every day..even what's been learned from decade to decade...it's the IF...I'm wondering about....Lets say we find out that "Everybody goes to the same place when they die...and it WAS PROVEN....and yes I know what the Christian belief teaches.......The Shaman and wiccians will go to hell, or never meet with the bible god, is what you are saying...
I'm not talking about evolution, but the newer sciences..

Originally posted by debbiejo
You missed the whole point....If it could be proved, then would you...They are learning new things every day..even what's been learned from decade to decade...it's the IF...I'm wondering about....Lets say we find out that "Everybody goes to the same place when they die...and it WAS PROVEN....and yes I know what the Christian belief teaches.......The Shaman and wiccians will go to hell, or never meet with the bible god, is what you are saying...
I'm not talking about evolution, but the newer sciences..
Do you realy believe that people telling about near death experiences are proof about where we are going? Because I heard testimonies of people who after trying to commit suicide had near death experiences and saw what hell was like, and was given a second chance. If you base your proof on people like John Edwards and his show, don't hold your breath. There are never people contacted who were rapists, or murderers. I wonder why it is only the "good" citizens who seem to come through. I do not let IF make me stray from my beliefs for that would make me like the Bible says, like a wave at sea tossed around by the wind, going here now and then there. This is about people who believes this today and that tomorrow. I am not like a wave that but belief in God and His word and the guidance of His spirit.

Originally posted by sonnet
I'll take that as a compliment.
Many christians think that they have to go out and spread the Gospel and beg and threaten and force people into believing and salvation. Jesus never did that so why should we assume that we have to. and No man can "save" another person, salvation or enlightenment whatever you want to call it comes through the spirit and heart. We can only act as tools to bring the message. I believe that God does not even always need man but can speak to anybody through their spirit, through visions or dreams or even situations. As I said I believe everybody knows God and/or of God because we are spiritual beings. It is our ideas and perceptions of Him that differs and that can be quite understandable because of for one the huge cultural differences in the world. I also do not believe that God communicated to everybody in the same way.

It was meant as a compliment. You do not know it, but you are a Buddha. That is not to say you are a Buddhist, just that you have an uncommon wisdom. Please take care, in some Christian churches such thoughts are considered to be heresy.

Originally posted by sonnet
Do you really believe that people telling about near death experiences are proof about where we are going? Because I heard testimonies of people who after trying to commit suicide had near death experiences and saw what hell was like, and was given a second chance. If you base your proof on people like John Edwards and his show, don't hold your breath. There are never people contacted who were rapists, or murderers. I wonder why it is only the "good" citizens who seem to come through. I do not let IF make me stray from my beliefs for that would make me like the Bible says, like a wave at sea tossed around by the wind, going here now and then there. This is about people who believes this today and that tomorrow. I am not like a wave that but belief in God and His word and the guidance of His spirit. I wasn't talking about John Edwards....and as for near death experiences...I've heard the same,....though there is a quantum science field that explain what I they call "The law of Attraction"...this is that you draw on what ever you think....so if a person dies expecting to see something fearful, they will experience it....Just like in real live how this law works....positive draws in that Just as negatives do....I have really read many books about near death experiences including the ones about hell.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It was meant as a compliment. You do not know it, but you are a Buddha. That is not to say you are a Buddhist, just that you have an uncommon wisdom. Please take care, in some Christian churches such thoughts are considered to be heresy.
Thank you!!
I must admit I am starting to look like a Buddah being pregnant!!!!
My personal feeling is that if there is a group of people who realy live among others as Jesus taught us to do and showing the friuts of the spirit as I mentioned to Debbiejo earlier, then it is most buddhists. You realy know the meaning of the word spirituality and spiritual growth. Many christians fail this because they expect to grow spiritualy by training their senses and through physical deeds.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I wasn't talking about John Edwards....and as for near death experiences...I've heard the same,....though there is a quantum science field that explain what I they call "The law of Attraction"...this is that you draw on what ever you think....so if a person dies expecting to see something fearful, they will experience it....Just like in real live how this law works....positive draws in that Just as negatives do....I have really read many books about near death experiences including the ones about hell.
How do the scientists know what these people see when they die and thereafter and what these people expected to see? I have read many books about this and it always amazes me how these authors seem to know exactly what happens during the process of death, and thereafter and always writing in detail about events that happens in the thereafter. Who did they interview to get the information. For that reason I do not believe that there is concrete evidence about the destination after death.

Originally posted by sonnet
How do the scientists know what these people see when they die and thereafter and what these people expected to see? I.

Then how do you know what they see....The books I have read have many instances in them....one book was only about hell called "Revelations of Hell"....another was compiled by a cardiologist.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then how do you know what they see....The books I have read have many instances in them....one book was only about hell called "Revelations of Hell"....another was compiled by a cardiologist.
I don't, and I do not assume to either. No one knows the exact events that take place after death. I believe only God has knowledge of that and those who are already there. People die under different sircumstances and that I do believe will influence their experience when they die regardless of what they might have believed it to be like. Some people will be on pain killers, some having heart attacks, or under severe pain or fear because of the cause of death some might be in coma's. I do not think that the moment of death is the same for a person going peacefully expecting death as after a long illness in comparisen to any of those mentioned previously. And as some of these people are in unfortunate situations out of their control, I do not think that the law of attraction makes sence here as they will attract a experience which they had no control or choice about. I am not afraid to die whatever the cause of death because I believe I know where I am going. It is what you believe that gives you peace or angciety about death.

Originally posted by sonnet
I'll take that as a compliment.
Many christians think that they have to go out and spread the Gospel and beg and threaten and force people into believing and salvation. Jesus never did that so why should we assume that we have to. and No man can "save" another person, salvation or enlightenment whatever you want to call it comes through the spirit and heart. We can only act as tools to bring the message. I believe that God does not even always need man but can speak to anybody through their spirit, through visions or dreams or even situations. As I said I believe everybody knows God and/or of God because we are spiritual beings. It is our ideas and perceptions of Him that differs and that can be quite understandable because of for one the huge cultural differences in the world. I also do not believe that God communicated to everybody in the same way.

Well said sonnet! It is true that Proselytism was never done by Jesus.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16. The phrase "good works" is often interpreted to include proselytism, but looking at the scripture more closely it states "let your light so shine before men, that they may SEE (not hear) your good works". It is not up to human beings to convert eachother, that is why there is so much conflict, and dare I say it...war, over religion.

Originally posted by KPrince
Well said sonnet! It is true that Proselytism was never done by Jesus.
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:16. The phrase "good works" is often interpreted to include proselytism, but looking at the scripture more closely it states "let your light so shine before men, that they may SEE (not hear) your good works". It is not up to human beings to convert eachother, that is why there is so much conflict, and dare I say it...war, over religion.

I agree, Nicherin Daishonin said, and I am paraphrasing, you can know a religion by the actions of it's members. If a religion is true, then that truth will be evident in the members.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I agree, Nicherin Daishonin said, and I am paraphrasing, you can know a religion by the actions of it's members. If a religion is true, then that truth will be evident in the members.

You took the words right out of my keyboard.

Originally posted by KPrince
You took the words right out of my keyboard.

You have words in your keyboard? Wow! I have to type all of mine in. jk

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You have words in your keyboard? Wow! I have to type all of mine in. jk

You know sonnet this is a hypothetical question right?

So, what you are saying is that IF WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT ABOUT GOD IS WRONG....YOU'D IGNORE IT?...You wouldn't even research it?.........and go on in ignorance and rituals according to the doctrines of men....hmmmm?..Your that 1 vote up there aren't you?

And the "Laws of attraction do work in all ways" from the research I've read....It's just a natural law.....

Once you look at things in this mannor, you'll be surprised what you can accomplish, and see how it works in others lives...It's a real eye opener...It's a great way to improve your life, and near death experiences. (That is if you have any).

Originally posted by debbiejo
You know sonnet this is a hypothetical question right?

So, what you are saying is that IF WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT ABOUT GOD IS WRONG....YOU'D IGNORE IT?...You wouldn't even research it?.........and go on in ignorance and rituals according to the doctrines of men....hmmmm?..Your that 1 vote up there aren't you?

And the "Laws of attraction do work in all ways" from the research I've read....It's just a natural law.....

Once you look at things in this mannor, you'll be surprised what you can accomplish, and see how it works in others lives...It's a real eye opener...It's a great way to improve your life, and near death experiences. (That is if you have any).
I know this is a hypothetical question. But my opinion is that God cannot be researched because He is spiritual and not a physical occurance and because my spirit is one with God I trust what I know about Him because my spirit guides me. I have read many books about God and don't just accept all or throw away what I know about Him because of the books. Many people write their own perceptions and ideas but your own spirit must be your guide.

When you said "spirit guides" me I almost thought you were new age...

You did vote "ignore it didn't you sonnet'....LOL... ...That's OK, I wont tell anyone....hahahaha


OH, and how do you know gods a him?...If angels have no sexual orientation how could god?...It's not like god is having sex or anything.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Finding chariots at the bottom of the ocean can mean many things - there is no evidence the sea was ever parted, nor that it was god who did it.

I can write down that God caused the colapse of the twin towers, and thousands of years from now, someone can start digging around New York and find evidence that there were twin towers and that they were destroyed.

That however does not prove that God did it.

maybe because in the middle its not as eroded as on the sides for about 2 meters. if all the water was stacked up higher in one spot than obviously its going to be eroded more... which it is. also in that video tape i mentioned there is this HUGE rock like the size of a house and right down the middle is a giant gash. Scientists say that the only way that could have happend is through erosion. Religious Leaders beleive that to be the place where Moses Struck the rock and water came poring out.

Originally posted by Dirk Jade
. Religious Leaders beleive that to be the place where Moses Struck the rock and water came poring out. Erosion ????

And BTW...why would god so above all exclude Moses for striking the other rock? You know the one he was only to talk/ask to give?......Gee and after 40 years of wondering.....Moses wasn't even the problem for the wanderings....