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When I first heard about Darth Plagus The Wise I wondered why a Sith Lord had gained that title from the Sith of all Orders, when the Jedi had not given the same title to Yoda or Sifer Dyas.
I could understand him being called the Knowledgable but the Wise.

Secondly, why did influence the mediclorians to create Anakin? Did he feel that balance had to brought to the Force?

Palpatine called him that. You think it was true? I think it was just to make him sound more grandure to Anakin's ears.

crybaby We have the miscellaneous ep III question thread now...

Originally posted by roughrider
Palpatine called him that. You think it was true? I think it was just to make him sound more grandure to Anakin's ears.
But remember in Ep II when Dooku told Obi Wan that the Senate was under the control of a Sith Lord, he was telling the truth in or to persuade Obi Wan to join him, but Yoda wrongly discounted what he said as mistruth because he was Sith. Are we to make the same mistake?

Plagueis was most likely caled, "The Wise," becuase he was wise enough to actually create life and stop death.

Since both accounts of his title and his abilities come from Palpatine, we can only guess as to whether he was lieing or telling the truth, either way, he was luring Anakin.

Perhaps he was called "The Wise" because he could use punctuation and grammar correctly?

This thread seems to demonstrate that some posters on this site could benefit from studying his example.

First of all, Anakin was created by the force PERIOD. All that other stuff was a lie precipitated by Palpatine. And the wise is merely a way of describing Plagueis. Kind of like Alexander the great.

Nobody knows whether Anakin was really created by the force or this Plageius fella or if this Plageius even existed, nothing says what is canonical.

Originally posted by Numo
But remember in Ep II when Dooku told Obi Wan that the Senate was under the control of a Sith Lord, he was telling the truth in or to persuade Obi Wan to join him, but Yoda wrongly discounted what he said as mistruth because he was Sith. Are we to make the same mistake?

I whole heartedly agree.

I am getting tired of people downing the Sith and there credibility just because everyone thinks Star Wars is about good triumphing over evil... Star Wars is not about this... Star Wars is about good AND evil (well, what people presume to be good or evil, remember, "good is a point of view...".

In the opening titles of Episode III, it says something very interesting... "There are heroes on BOTH sides. Evil is everywhere." This indeed is profound. One man's good is another man's evil. And so we see that Palpatine is correct in saying "good is a point of view...".

I don't believe Palpatine was lying to Anakin at all. In fact, I believe that, to create a perfect Apprentice, Palpatine used the knowledge he aquired from Plagueis and created Anakin. He used some sort of Sith ritual to impregnate a woman far into the outer rim... so that way the Jedi Order couldn't identify Skywalker as a Force potential. Palpatine wanted his perfect Apprentice to grow up having attachments-- so that way when he was indeed found by the Jedi, it would be much easier to seduce him since he had something to play on-- in this case, Anakin's need for things.

And concerning Plagueis being called "The Wise"... why can't you imagine a Sith being wise? What do you have against the Sith? Do you think they're stupid, moronic, and dumb? I don't think so. Look at the sheer genius of Palpatine executing everything just perfectly over the vast amount of years to gain what he wanted. He fooled the entire Jedi Order, he fooled the Senate, and he fooled the entire Republic. The Sith are indeed very wise and very powerful. Many of you who think Star Wars is ultimately about good triumphing over evil (despite what GL said in some random interview) need to reconsider.

Originally posted by Darth Orcus
Perhaps he was called "The Wise" because he could use punctuation and grammar correctly?

This thread seems to demonstrate that some posters on this site could benefit from studying his example.

hysterical

Or perhaps he was demonstrating Anakin that the Sith lords have same virtues as the Jedi do?

"He's as wise as master Yoda and as powerful as master Windu...." EP2

"Darth Plagus was a darth lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could influence the midichloridians to create.... life." EP3


See a pattern here?

Originally posted by Sesse
"Darth Plagus was a darth lord of the Sith,

a darth lord of the sith?

Originally posted by palpy_666

I don't believe Palpatine was lying to Anakin at all. In fact, I believe that, to create a perfect Apprentice, Palpatine used the knowledge he aquired from Plagueis and created Anakin. He used some sort of Sith ritual to impregnate a woman far into the outer rim... so that way the Jedi Order couldn't identify Skywalker as a Force potential. Palpatine wanted his perfect Apprentice to grow up having attachments-- so that way when he was indeed found by the Jedi, it would be much easier to seduce him since he had something to play on-- in this case, Anakin's need for things.

LMFAO hysterical NO!



Wrong bucko! Lucas penned the story, his word IS law.

Originally posted by palpy_666

I don't believe Palpatine was lying to Anakin at all. In fact, I believe that, to create a perfect Apprentice, Palpatine used the knowledge he aquired from Plagueis and created Anakin. He used some sort of Sith ritual to impregnate a woman far into the outer rim... so that way the Jedi Order couldn't identify Skywalker as a Force potential. Palpatine wanted his perfect Apprentice to grow up having attachments-- so that way when he was indeed found by the Jedi, it would be much easier to seduce him since he had something to play on-- in this case, Anakin's need for things.


Why not just get her preggers the old fashioned way?

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
LMFAO hysterical NO!



Wrong bucko! Lucas penned the story, his word IS law.


But didnt Lucas say he left the father thing open for the viewer to make up their own mind?

Nope, where did you hear that?

Originally posted by Ast
But didnt Lucas say he left the father thing open for the viewer to make up their own mind?

Yeah... he did.

Link?

Originally posted by DarkYoda
Yeah... he did.

No, no boys, you need to produce a link.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
No, no boys, you need to produce a link.

Not my fault you weren't around when the article was posted.




Use your feelings JP, and find it you will.

Sorry Yoda, but I WAS around for this arugement the 30 times it occured. You boys are wrong. Lucas confirmed that Anakin was a pure product of the force in either the Vanity Fair interview or the Entertainment Weekly interview.

She's hallucinating... only 30? LMAO

More like 200!!

There is no point arguing this....




Come on DY, lets go discuss our correctness.

Sorry boys, all Im asking for is that you back your statements up!

Originally posted by Morridini
a darth lord of the sith?



Oh, sorry. I ment: "Dork lord of the sith"

My bad...

I don't remember where the article was JP... but in it, GL basically stated that he left it vague intentionally. It's because he's a major ass.

Yes, Lucas left it ambiguous purposely.

Here's your proof, you Palpatine haters. in the ROTS commentary, during the opera scene, Rick McCallum says that Palpatine gives information about "Anakin's origins". I don't ever recall Palpatine telling Anakin anything at all about his origins-- Unless of course the whole talk about Plagueis having the knowledge to create life is factual... and Plagueis or Palpatine created Anakin... it's the only option when viewed in light of the commentary.

Perhaps Rick McCallum knew the truth and accidentally let is slip during the commentary.

Originally posted by palpy_666
Here's your proof, you Palpatine haters. in the ROTS commentary, during the opera scene, Rick McCallum says that Palpatine gives information about "Anakin's origins". I don't ever recall Palpatine telling Anakin anything at all about his origins-- Unless of course the whole talk about Plagueis having the knowledge to create life is factual... and Plagueis or Palpatine created Anakin... it's the only option when viewed in light of the commentary.

Perhaps Rick McCallum knew the truth and accidentally let is slip during the commentary.

i have GOT to watch that commentary!! If rick realy said that then OMG what a slip up!! good ole McCallum!

sorry to double post but

"Now there's a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ulitmately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force." - George Lucas.. Rolling Stone

WOAH when was this??????????? oh I SO dont like that crap. Why couldnt he have just left it as a pure force creation. He reversed himself. Grrrrrrrrr

Well, to answer the title of this thread...

Should Yoda be called wise? How could he miss Palpatine? Granted, the man was powerful, but still...the signs were all there. He misses Anakin's marriage, Palpatine's manipulations of the Senate, Jango Fett's true purpose, and when it comes down to fighting it out, Palpy vapes him.

All Yoda does is spout on about how old people are for training, or being prepared to lose everything, or not to get mad...not particularly wise...

and JP, in response to your other post...hey

Originally posted by bilb
sorry to double post but

"Now there's a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ulitmately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force." - George Lucas.. Rolling Stone


YES!!! That was the article I was thinking of.



HAHA! VICTORY IS MINE!!

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
WOAH when was this??????????? oh I SO dont like that crap. Why couldnt he have just left it as a pure force creation. He reversed himself. Grrrrrrrrr

A nice little victory for me too. Some of these people on here think they're so special and knowledgable about Star Wars when in fact they no nothing but shyt.

It IS only a movie.

Originally posted by DarkYoda
It IS only a movie.



Not to a lot of us. In some people's situations, it's their life.

Originally posted by palpy_666


Not to a lot of us. In some people's situations, it's their life.

Then that is really sad.

Originally posted by palpy_666
A nice little victory for me too. Some of these people on here think they're so special and knowledgeable about Star Wars when in fact they no nothing but shyt.

oh I'm sorry, ridiculous theories ARE knowledgeable?

I dont profess to know nearly everything there is to know about Star Wars, but I do know one thing. You are an idiot.

On that note, Im going to bed. Nite kids.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
oh I'm sorry, ridiculous theories ARE knowledgeable? You are an idiot.

What rediculous theory? OH, the one where it's possible that Anakin is created by Palpatine or Plagueis? HMMMM... You said that was crap! But guess what? You're WRONG!!! Not only did I give proof (the audio commentary where Rick McCallum mentions that Anakin's origins are brought up in the opera scene) but someone else posted an interview with GL about this being a possibility.

Originally posted by Spearhead


Should Yoda be called wise? How could he miss Palpatine? Granted, the man was powerful, but still...the signs were all there. He misses Anakin's marriage, Palpatine's manipulations of the Senate, Jango Fett's true purpose, and when it comes down to fighting it out, Palpy vapes him.

All Yoda does is spout on about how old people are for training, or being prepared to lose everything, or not to get mad...not particularly wise...


Preach it brotha!! I friggin HATE Yoda anymore.. I know thats blasphemy & all but its true.. stupid damn frog has no clue about anything he professes to be an expert in..

and dont mock those of us who hold SW so near & dear.. we have nothing else to cling to cry

Originally posted by bilb
Preach it brotha!! I friggin HATE Yoda anymore.. I know thats blasphemy & all but its true.. stupid damn frog has no clue about anything he professes to be an expert in..

and dont mock those of us who hold SW so near & dear.. we have nothing else to cling to cry



I couldn't agree more! Right on! And the thing about Yoda not having a clue about anything he claims to be an expert in? Yeah... sounds like some people on these forums. *cough* JP *cough*

Originally posted by palpy_666
I couldn't agree more! Right on!


A fellow Yoda hater!! Woot! Go us!! :

all two of us

Palpy...don't be an azzhat.

And I thought I made it fairly obvious...I hate Yoda...

woo.. 3!!

love yoda he's so kool, but the reson he has not been given an extra name ie. the wise, the short, the nugget, is because he is not dead yet and once he is he will be givven a kool name.

I loved him in ESB but he just plain sucks in the PT

Grrrrrrr

Originally posted by DarkYoda
Grrrrrrr

rawr droolio

*cough*

Might I remind everyone that namecalling is bashing and against the rules?

Originally posted by palpy_666
I couldn't agree more! Right on! And the thing about Yoda not having a clue about anything he claims to be an expert in? Yeah... sounds like some people on these forums. *cough* JP *cough*

Talking about yourself again? Don't try to fester old fights, it's pure stupidity.

Lana, use the smilie! The OT one!

Yay! Excuse to use it!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b267/crystalicstar/offtopic.gif

Hurray for DY's VICTORY!!!

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
oh I'm sorry, ridiculous theories ARE knowledgeable?

I dont profess to know nearly everything there is to know about Star Wars, but I do know one thing. You are an idiot.

On that note, Im going to bed. Nite kids.

Aww...JP doesn't really know everything, and when she doesn't she can't just stand up and take it...she get's childish.

Originally posted by Lana
*cough*

Might I remind everyone that namecalling is bashing and against the rules?

And then...PWNED!

Originally posted by Lana
*cough*

Might I remind everyone that namecalling is bashing and against the rules?

Yeah, it is against the rules... but guess what? How do you know this "JP" I mentioned is JediPriestess? You don't! And that's the sheer beauty of it. I could've meant... say, "Jolly Prunes" or something.

Besides, it was JediPriestess who "name called" me. I was called an "idiot". But it's been reported anyways.

Originally posted by Lana
*cough*

Might I remind everyone that namecalling is bashing and against the rules?

Very True Lana.


And I will remind the rest of you people that constant member bashing is one way ticket out of KMC. Next person to derailed this thread is outta here. So more of this nonsense.

Originally posted by Ast
But didnt Lucas say he left the father thing open for the viewer to make up their own mind?

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Nope, where did you hear that?

It was all over the forum and the web after the premiere of RotS in May.

Im thinking the fact that I took 3 months off after ROTS is probably why I wasnt aware of this.

Originally posted by palpy_666
I whole heartedly agree.

I am getting tired of people downing the Sith and there credibility just because everyone thinks Star Wars is about good triumphing over evil... Star Wars is not about this... Star Wars is about good AND evil (well, what people presume to be good or evil, remember, "good is a point of view...".

In the opening titles of Episode III, it says something very interesting... "There are heroes on BOTH sides. Evil is everywhere." This indeed is profound. One man's good is another man's evil. And so we see that Palpatine is correct in saying "good is a point of view...".

I don't believe Palpatine was lying to Anakin at all. In fact, I believe that, to create a perfect Apprentice, Palpatine used the knowledge he aquired from Plagueis and created Anakin. He used some sort of Sith ritual to impregnate a woman far into the outer rim... so that way the Jedi Order couldn't identify Skywalker as a Force potential. Palpatine wanted his perfect Apprentice to grow up having attachments-- so that way when he was indeed found by the Jedi, it would be much easier to seduce him since he had something to play on-- in this case, Anakin's need for things.

And concerning Plagueis being called "The Wise"... why can't you imagine a Sith being wise? What do you have against the Sith? Do you think they're stupid, moronic, and dumb? I don't think so. Look at the sheer genius of Palpatine executing everything just perfectly over the vast amount of years to gain what he wanted. He fooled the entire Jedi Order, he fooled the Senate, and he fooled the entire Republic. The Sith are indeed very wise and very powerful. Many of you who think Star Wars is ultimately about good triumphing over evil (despite what GL said in some random interview) need to reconsider.


Heroes on both sides just meant there were systems on the seperatist side who honestly believed in their cause, and believed Dooku's line about corruption - not realizing that Dooku and Sidious were just manipulating both sides against the middle to gain power for the Sith; nothing more.
I can't accept the idea that being a Sith makes you wise, from a different point of view. Becoming a Sith and embracing the Dark Side, your life eventually becomes about lusting for power; more you use the Dark Side, the more power you want. That's why it became neccessary to limit the amount of Sith at a time - everyone eventually wants to rule, and would kill their master to do so. That's what helped to undo the Sith a thousand years earlier. Palpatine knows, despite Anakin saying he's doing it for Padme, the Dark Side will fill him so much he won't care anymore about loved ones, and we see how he eventually is compelled to lash out at her, and nearly kill her.

I believe that Darth Plaigus did create Anakin and not Palpatine for the reason that a person who can create life can keep people from dying, but this when asked by Anakin, Palpatine said only one man had achieved that power.

The point that was made in the earlier post is an interesting one...meditate on this I will.

Originally posted by Numo
When I first heard about Darth Plagus The Wise I wondered why a Sith Lord had gained that title from the Sith of all Orders, when the Jedi had not given the same title to Yoda or Sifer Dyas.
I could understand him being called the Knowledgable but the Wise.

Secondly, why did influence the mediclorians to create Anakin? Did he feel that balance had to brought to the Force?
Why?
Because you touch yourself at night.

Originally posted by palpy_666
Yeah, it is against the rules... but guess what? How do you know this "JP" I mentioned is JediPriestess? You don't! And that's the sheer beauty of it. I could've meant... say, "Jolly Prunes" or something.

Besides, it was JediPriestess who "name called" me. I was called an "idiot". But it's been reported anyways.

It was aimed at everyone, not you specifically.

And I'm aware that it was reported, I am a mod here.

Only a moderator deals in absolutes. I shall do what I must.

But aren't the jedi supposed to be humble and seemingly poor people? Adding titles is likely to only get it's bearer proud. And the jedi are supposed to "only think about others". Not much room for extra names or ranks , is there?

Originally posted by Lana
It was aimed at everyone, not you specifically.

And I'm aware that it was reported, I am a mod here.

hence the reason I shut up

Palpy_666, tlbauerle, please, just bite your tongues! I've had enough of your childish picking at JP (and no, Palpy, you don't mean 'Jolly Prunes'); if anything, you're falling to what you consider to be her level, though she's clearly above you if she does not respond to your pathetic antics. Bite you tongues. WD and Lana have already said this, and this is the second time I've said this in here. Bite. Your. Tongues.

...


Anyways, I don't like the theory that Plagueis created Anakin. Takes the mystery out of it, makes him less mystical and mythological. Makes him more of a whiney little tool.

And Sesse, you'd be right, but there is still the matter of being a Padawan, a Knight, a Master, or THE Grandmaster, which is Yoda's position.

Darth Plagueis could create life...DP created Anakin in sone secret plan for a Super-Sith...God. This is a serious debate?

HELLO? Palpatine was MAKING IT ALL UP! Don't you get it?
He knew about Anakin's situation with Padme, and his thoughts about the potential risk to her. Creating this story about DP (who may be real; its unconfirmed) having the ability to create life and stop death was the straw for Anakin to grasp at. And once he swore allegiance to Palpatine, he could be pressed further to the Dark Side, like how "we need to work together to uncover the secret." First, oh, kill all the Jedi at the temple, then the Seperatist leadership, then you'll be strong enough! Hook-Line-Sinker.
As for half-admissions by George Lucas or Rick McCallum, there are people on here who would find bombshell meanings in George's fingernail clippings!
Afetr all these decades, I wonder if GL ever goes home rubbing his hands in glee - "Heh heh messed with their heads again!"

I agree, though there is the possibility that Plagueis could do SOMETHING to that degree. Creating Anakin is completely unfeasible though, and ruins his story.

No doubt and his mystique I think.

Yeah... I really I don't like the idea. It takes away from the story if he was created by the Sith.... the fact that he fell is much more powerful without it.

Originally posted by roughrider
Palpatine called him that. You think it was true? I think it was just to make him sound more grandure to Anakin's ears.
Yeah, there's a large amount of bias.

Don't let your personal feelings get in the way. Any one who's listened to the commentary knows that DP created Anakin, whether you choose to believe it or not, search you feelings...you know don't you.

Originally posted by Numo
Don't let your personal feelings get in the way. Any one who's listened to the commentary knows that DP created Anakin, whether you choose to believe it or not, search you feelings...you know don't you.

Uh no, I dont KNOW anything of the sort. Sorry.

Originally posted by Numo
Don't let your personal feelings get in the way. Any one who's listened to the commentary knows that DP created Anakin, whether you choose to believe it or not, search you feelings...you know don't you.

because darth sidious told us?
lord knows he never told a lie

I would say that Darth Plageous is real and not mythical. That look of pure glee and smugness on Palpatine's face when he tells Anakin about killing Plageous is just too real.

but do you not find it strange that he referred to it as a legend?
apparently the only ones with knowledge of this 'legend' would have been
maul and dooku, both dead.

Kids, I wish we lived in a world were good people never told lies, even little white lies in order to spare someones feelings and evil people never told the truth...but i'm afraid that the world is just not that cut and dry.

Neither is Star Wars. The characters are complicated, so is the plot as well as understanding the Force.

Did you really think GL would make it that simple for us. Palpatine said it therefore it must be a lie...please get serious!

How do you know it was a lie? Someone had to be Palp's master

I'm uncertain as to why a lot of you are ignoring what Rick McCallum said in the commentary during the Opera scene... He says that Palpatine mentions things such as "Anakin's origns". Palpatine never said anything about Anakin's origins UNLESS it is true that Darth Plagueis or Sidious created him.

And who cares about Anakin's "mystique". In fact, he doesn't have any! I have to admit, GL didn't do a very good job at establishing the fact that Anakin was the chosen one. Of course we were told that he was, but something more could've been added to the story to amplify this point. Like in the Matrix, for instance... Morpheus made a big deal about Neo being "The One". But in SW, everyone seems to shrug off the fact that they are in the presence of someone spoken of in ancient prophecy that will affect the fate of the entire galaxy.

Originally posted by palpy_666
I'm uncertain as to why a lot of you are ignoring what Rick McCallum said in the commentary during the Opera scene... He says that Palpatine mentions things such as "Anakin's origns". Palpatine never said anything about Anakin's origins UNLESS it is true that Darth Plagueis or Sidious created him.



You are not necessarily right about this. As it has been pointed out...



So it IS really up to each of us how this plays out apparently. Hence there is no point in arguing it anymore.

apparently GL is wrong and fanboy is right, as per the usual

beause he was already called yoda "the p.i.m.p." what would you rather be called? i'd choose pimp.