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who wins ?

Wonder Man, easily. WM is only a notch below Thor, Colossus isnt even close.

yup, WM wins.... he's as, if not more, durable than Colossus, as strong, if not stronger than Colossus, WM is a lot faster and he can fly

Originally posted by armandovalles
Wonder Man, easily. WM is only a notch below Thor, Colossus isnt even close.
Wonder Man wins, agreed. But the strength difference and durability difference between WM and Piotr isn't that big.

colossus with ease....he will turn him into ionic soup.....thats a stupid and one sided fight......colossus takes it with ease...

Originally posted by Smaxxer
Wonder Man wins, agreed. But the strength difference and durability difference between WM and Piotr isn't that big.

Strength is a big difference. WM has a lot of it, and can amp his strength via his rage.

Durability wise, Wonder Man has been put through a planet, a sun, and survived the Nega bomb at point blank range. Colossus got hot knives stuck in his back by Pete Wisdom...

No offense Rage, Colossus's rage isn't up to par here.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Strength is a big difference. WM has a lot of it, and can amp his strength via his rage.

Durability wise, Wonder Man has been put through a planet, a sun, and survived the Nega bomb at point blank range. Colossus got hot knives stuck in his back by Pete Wisdom...

No offense Rage, Colossus's rage isn't up to par here.

dammit sentry i thought whirly killed you already.......you fool colossus dosent need rage..he is made of rage!...

Wonderman is stronger. Plus the power of flight gives him the advantage.

Wonderman is stronger and faster he can also fly so he wins

Wonder Man outclasses Colossus in every way.

WonderMan.

Wonderman will take Colossus to ride and throw him in the ocean or space. The fact is that Simon wins.

Thing beat Wonderman one time.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Wonder Man outclasses Colossus in every way. The same way Superman outclasses Hulk but for some odd reason there is a alot of people who thing Hulk can beat Superman.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The same way Superman outclasses Hulk but for some odd reason there is a alot of people who thing Hulk can beat Superman. Yup, and Collosus is MADE OF RAGE!!!!!!!!, meaning that he will easily grow pissed and finish off WM, once and for ALL!!!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The same way Superman outclasses Hulk but for some odd reason there is a alot of people who thing Hulk can beat Superman. Well, count me out of that group. Hulk's a great character and all, but he can't beat Supes.

Originally posted by Ultimate Rage
dammit sentry i thought whirly killed you already.......you fool colossus dosent need rage..he is made of rage!...


classic

"Thing beat Wonderman one time."

Wich Wonderman, what wer the conditions and where it happened.


"The same way Superman outclasses Hulk but for some odd reason there is a alot of people who thing Hulk can beat Superman. "


He can in a type of fight: Slugfest.

yeah what issiue was the thing/wonderman battle. Now in wonderman's current state can't he also fire energy blasts of some sort? Well I thing this is a very close battle because I see colossus and WM as equals in the strength and durblity department. However WM can fly and when he consentraits he gets stronger. I give colossus 4 out of 10

Originally posted by olympian
"Thing beat Wonderman one time."

Wich Wonderman, what wer the conditions and where it happened.


"The same way Superman outclasses Hulk but for some odd reason there is a alot of people who thing Hulk can beat Superman. "


He can in a type of fight: Slugfest.

I think it was in an issue where the Purple Man (or some other manipulator guy) mentally commanded a couple of people to fight Thing one after the other. I think She-Hulk was also in that group. Simon was looking awesome, all cold and calculating-like. he smacks thing around, and then Thing notes that this is wierd cause Simon could beat his @ss and he's obviously holding back.


Of course, that may just be a distorted memory however

If Wonderman is this much stronger why is he listed as Level 6 ?

I think it was in an issue where the Purple Man (or some other manipulator guy) mentally commanded a couple of people to fight Thing "one after the other. I think She-Hulk was also in that group. Simon was looking awesome, all cold and calculating-like. he smacks thing around, and then Thing notes that this is wierd cause Simon could beat his @ss and he's obviously holding back.


Of course, that may just be a distorted memory however"


Probably some scans will show up. If thats what happened then Wman didnt badly portraited. Not that Thing cant give him a fight but hes not stronger. Wman is a notch below guys like Herc and Thor.


And as for the last post:

because Handbook/guides arent accurate. Otherwise id use one where Herc and Gladiator wer listed above Thor, Hulk and the like.

Originally posted by olympian
I think it was in an issue where the Purple Man (or some other manipulator guy) mentally commanded a couple of people to fight Thing "one after the other. I think She-Hulk was also in that group. Simon was looking awesome, all cold and calculating-like. he smacks thing around, and then Thing notes that this is wierd cause Simon could beat his @ss and he's obviously holding back.


Of course, that may just be a distorted memory however"


Probably some scans will show up. If thats what happened then Wman didnt badly portraited. Not that Thing cant give him a fight but hes not stronger. Wman is a notch below guys like Herc and Thor.


And as for the last post:

because Handbook/guides arent accurate.


Then why have them ?

Originally posted by Fishy 500
If Wonderman is this much stronger why is he listed as Level 6 ?

Wonder Man strength is listed as 7.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Wonder Man strength is listed as 7.

Um mm where ?

Or like usual are going to 'conveniently' avoid my question ?

"Then why have them"

Why we also have fanfiction?

Its merchandize outside of comics. Doesnt mean its accurate. Wich going by comics its not.

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Um mm where ?

Or like usual are going to 'conveniently' avoid my question ?

Marvel series trading cards sets #2 through #4 say so.

This picture spells it out as well. I put a picture their so you could understand it better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/avengers192075xt.jpg

What happened after?

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Marvel series trading cards sets #2 through #4 say so.

This picture spells it out as well. I put a picture their so you could understand it better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/avengers192075xt.jpg

The trading card aren't in Level form. They're out of 50, and Wonderman hasn't appeared !

Namor is also listed a level 6 and has performed simillar feats ! The pic is irrelevent !

Wonder Man has top tier showings but he falls behind because he is always stated to be the next bigthing after Thor and Herc (and not having better strenght feats). The fact he -fluctuates- of levels according to writers, doesnt help. Thats safari Jacket WMan, a version weaker than Today.

Namor also has top tier showings.

Out of curiosity, whats the rating of Herc and Thor in the system your talking about?

I still wanna see what happened after WM let go.

Originally posted by olympian
Wonder Man has top tier showings but he falls behind because he is always stated to be the next bigthing after Thor and Herc (and not having better strenght feats). The fact he -fluctuates- of levels according to writers, doesnt help. Thats safari Jacket WMan, a version weaker than Today.

Namor also has top tier showings.

Out of curiosity, whats the rating of Herc and Thor in the system your talking about?

Level 7

Along with a lot of all of the well known strong guys ! I'll be interested to see how Ultimate Colossus is listed, as i thinks he's in same strength divison as Wonderman and Namor.

Here is a article about Ultimate Colossus, I THINK Colossus takes this one since he has a win to Thor, and Ironman to his name.




Codename: Colossus
Real name: Piotr (Peter) Nikolaievitch Rasputin
Group affiliation: The X-Men
Base of operations: Xavier Institute for Gifted Children
First appearance: Ultimate X-Men #1
Height: 6'6"
Weight: 250 lbs. normal, 500 lbs. in armoured form
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Black

What the Professor says:
"Perhaps the development I'm most proud of is how Wolverine and Colossus have reinvented themselves over these last few months. Both young men raised in violence and misery, they now spend their evenings scanning newspapers for hard-luck stories and unsolved crimes... walking the streets from dusk 'til dawn in search of people who might be in need of their particular kind of help."

History:
A young Piotr Rasputin left his poverty-stricken family to make a living in the United States, where he joined the Russian Mafia. Peter kept his mutant power a secret, and became more and more sucesssful in the mafia world. However, every penny he earned was sent back to his family in Siberia.

During a illegal arms transaction on a dock in New York, Piotr and his associates were backstabbed and attacked with machine guns. Everyone on the dock was killed except for Piotr, who was saved by his mutant ability. Outted as a mutant, Piotr thought his life was over. But, he was found by Jean Grey and offered a place among the X-Men, a team of young mutants dedicated to bringing about peaceful coexistence between the two species of man. As Colossus, Piotr now serves as the squad's super-strong powerhouse!

After they were freed from the Weapon X project, Colossus and the X-Men embarked on a World Tour to promote Xavier's new book. While in London however, Colossus suddenly departed the team, and left home to Russia. With Cyclops and Marvel Girl on his trail, Piotr got a job with a car manufacturing plant, and proclaimed to Scott and Jean that he was indeed happy. Unsatisfied, the two persued Piotr until he explained his reason for leaving. Peter declared that he was unhappy with his place on the team, that he was ignored, and that none of his team members cared for him. Marvel Girl, however, disagreed, stating that his true reason was because of the feelings he had for a fellow team member. Peter promptly dismissed the two. Later that night, however, the local Russian news announced that a submarine had crashed underwater, and that there was no hope for the crews survival. Unable to sit idly by, Piotr took charge and dove to the submarine and dislodged it. When he reached the surface Colossus was doused with media attention, which proclaimed him the most famous super-hero on the planet. Peter put his grudges with the X-Men asside and left Russia with Cyclops and Marvel Girl to meet up with the X-Men in Germany, who were in a heated battle with Xavier's son David. With the professor torn between killing his son and allowing thousands of innocents to perish, Colossus took action, and crushed David with a car, ending the battle, as well as the lives of David and Col. Betsy Braddock.

Colossus and a handful of X-Men were invited to an evening out with the Hellfire Club, the X-Men's secret financers, at their headquarters in New York. There he met the Russian President, who had grown up merely a few miles from Piotr's collective in Russia. The group, including Jean, Ororo, and the Professor, were ambushed and captured. In truth, Hellfire had been monitoring Jean Grey, in order to user her as a vehicle to bring forth their ancient god, the Phoenix. The Phoenix arose in Jean, and she murdered the Hellfire Club. However, Xavier was able to force the Phoenix into submission, freeing Jean from it's grasp. Colossus was unharmed during the ordeal.

Colossus and the X-Men were forced out of the mansion with the U.S. Government on their backs. In the final climactic battle between the X-Men and The Ultimates, America's premier superhero team, Colossus stood his own against Iron Man and Thor, and was able to withstand a localized nuclear explosion direct at him by Hawkeye, proving Piotr's amazing strength.

After hiding out in a suburban New York home (unbeknownst to it's residents, thanks to Marvel Girl's abilities) Colossus and the X-Men located Magneto's flying citidal, using a signal sent by the captured Cyclops. Upon their arrival they were subdued by Magneto's control over the iron in their blood. Using his unimaginable power, Colossus was able to overcome Magneto's influence and broke free, attacking him mercilessly for the harm he had inflicted on Peter's friends, especially Wolverine. His concentration destroyed, Magneto released the X-Men who were able to apprehend him, all thanks to Piotr's determination.


In the Ultimate continuity, it has been shown that Colossus's eyes do not turn into steel, but instead remain organic and vulnerable (in the normal continuity, Colossus's eyes have been able to withstand a gunshot). Also, unlike the "normal" Colossus, when he is knocked unconscious he remains in whatever form he was in (See the "Hellfire and Brimstone" plotline)everything else seems to stay the same. In the Ultimate War crossover with the Ultimates, Colossus fought Thor and had the upper hand against the thunder god.

Colossus possesses the mutant ability to transform his entire body into solid, nigh-invulnerable, organic osmium steel. In this "armored" form, Colossus posses sufficient strength to lift over 100 tons. He can withstand the impact of a 5,000 ton speeding train, the ballistic penetration of a 110 millimeter Howitzer shell, and the explosive force of nearly 500 pounds of TNT. He is highly resistant to heat and cold (being able to receive full-force blasts from The Human Torch and/or Ice Man without taking damage) and can survive temperature extremes from -320o Fahrenheit to approximately 9000o F. Being conductive, he is immune to electricity. Colossus's armored body cannot rust.

Powers and abilities
Colossus possesses the ability to transform his entire body into a form of organic steel, named by some sources as analogous to Osmium, but of still unknown composition.

In this transformed state, Colossus' body gains around a inch in additional height and his body mass is at least doubled. The source of Colossus' gain in height and muscle mass is unknown, but possibly extradimensional.

While in his armored form, Colossus possesses significant superhuman strength. As a teenager, Colossus powers allow him in "Class 100" Power Level (able to lift in excess of 100 tons). The full limit of his strength has not been revealed. Aside from this great strength, in his steel form he possesses a high degree of invulnerability to conventional injury. Colossus' armored form can withstand extreme temperatures, falls from great heights, high caliber machine gun shells, large amounts of explosives, etc without sustaining injury. A side effect of his armor's strength enhancing effect is a vastly greater muscle efficiency than an ordinary human. While armored, his muscles generate considerably less lactic acids than those of ordinary humans, granting him superhuman levels of stamina in all activities. He can exert himself at peak capacity for several days before fatigue begins to impair him. Colossus' armored form is also invulnerable to rusting under Earthly conditions. Colossus has demonstrated very little need, if any, to breathe while he is in his armored state and there's no known limit as to how long he can remain in this form. Colossus also has no limit with his strength, as long as he ages works out in his normal form his steel form will continue to grow stronger.

Colossus cannot transform a single portion of his body into this armored state, he must either be completely transformed or remain within his normal state.

Here is a article about wonderman.

Wonder Man is a fictional character, a superhero in the Marvel Comics universe, and is a member in long standing of the Avengers. He was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in Avengers #9 (October 1964).

Character Biography
Simon Williams was born the son of a rich family, and inherited the family's company and fortune. Despite this, he embezzled money from the company and was caught. The supervillain Baron Zemo found the desperate Williams and offered him a chance to escape by transforming him into the ion-powered Wonder Man.

Wonder Man joined the Avengers on Zemo's behalf, but ultimately turned on Zemo and was apparently killed in doing so. He actually remained in a deathlike state of suspended animation for years, during which time the android Ultron based the brain of an android of his own, the Vision, upon that of Wonder Man.

William's brother, Eric Williams, became the supervillain called the Grim Reaper, and the process that had empowered Simon was also used to empower the villain Count Nefaria, among others.

Wonder Man was eventually revived and finally joined the Avengers full-time, becoming close friends with his teammate, the Beast.

With his zest for life, he became an actor in addition to a superhero, and was one of the major members of the West Coast Avengers team.

Image:WonderMan-9.jpg
Cover to Wonder Man Volume 2 #9 (May, 1992), featuring Wonder Man and the Vision. Art by Jeff Johnson.Wonder Man eventually came to accept the Vision as his "brother". However, the Vision was dismantled and rebuilt as an emotionless machine, and his marriage to Wanda Maximoff, the Scarlet Witch, was annulled. Wonder Man later became romantically involved with the Witch.

When the Avengers West Coast disbanded Williams became a founder member of its successor group - Force Works, along with the Scarlet Witch. However Wonder Man was disintegrated in a battle with the alien Kree in an early mission with the group.

The Scarlet Witch was eventually able to restore Williams to life with her chaos magic, and in the process brought back the Grim Reaper, who at the time had been a ghost.

Although Williams and Maximoff resumed their relationship, they eventually drifted apart and Wonder Man has recently been romantically linked with Carol Danvers.

Powers and abilities
Initially, Wonder Man possessed superhuman strength and endurance that were comparable with the Thing. After his first "death", his powers increased significantly while in stasis, placing him in the "Class 100" strength range, equivalent to Thor; entailing that he can lift far in excess of 100 tons. Wonder Man also possesses superhuman speed but initially could not fly of his own power. After his revival, he gained a belt that featured a pair of rockets that tapped into his ionic power to give him the ability of flight. Without the belt, he could not fly, but eventually learned to leap great distances like the Hulk. After he was exposed to the energies of a Nega-Bomb in "Operation Galactic Storm", his powers entered a state of flux that lasted until his second "death" in combat with the Kree. At one point during this state of flux, energy erupted from his body and temporarily empowered a group of his non-superpowered friends and associates, who were briefly known as the "Crazy Eight". After his body was reformed by the Scarlet Witch, he gained the ability to transform into ionic energy, in which form he now possessed the innate ability of flight.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
Here is a article about Ultimate Colossus, I THINK Colossus takes this one since he has a win to Thor, and Ironman to his name.




Codename: Colossus
Real name: Piotr (Peter) Nikolaievitch Rasputin
Group affiliation: The X-Men
Base of operations: Xavier Institute for Gifted Children
First appearance: Ultimate X-Men #1
Height: 6'6"
Weight: 250 lbs. normal, 500 lbs. in armoured form
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Black

What the Professor says:
"Perhaps the development I'm most proud of is how Wolverine and Colossus have reinvented themselves over these last few months. Both young men raised in violence and misery, they now spend their evenings scanning newspapers for hard-luck stories and unsolved crimes... walking the streets from dusk 'til dawn in search of people who might be in need of their particular kind of help."

History:
A young Piotr Rasputin left his poverty-stricken family to make a living in the United States, where he joined the Russian Mafia. Peter kept his mutant power a secret, and became more and more sucesssful in the mafia world. However, every penny he earned was sent back to his family in Siberia.

During a illegal arms transaction on a dock in New York, Piotr and his associates were backstabbed and attacked with machine guns. Everyone on the dock was killed except for Piotr, who was saved by his mutant ability. Outted as a mutant, Piotr thought his life was over. But, he was found by Jean Grey and offered a place among the X-Men, a team of young mutants dedicated to bringing about peaceful coexistence between the two species of man. As Colossus, Piotr now serves as the squad's super-strong powerhouse!

After they were freed from the Weapon X project, Colossus and the X-Men embarked on a World Tour to promote Xavier's new book. While in London however, Colossus suddenly departed the team, and left home to Russia. With Cyclops and Marvel Girl on his trail, Piotr got a job with a car manufacturing plant, and proclaimed to Scott and Jean that he was indeed happy. Unsatisfied, the two persued Piotr until he explained his reason for leaving. Peter declared that he was unhappy with his place on the team, that he was ignored, and that none of his team members cared for him. Marvel Girl, however, disagreed, stating that his true reason was because of the feelings he had for a fellow team member. Peter promptly dismissed the two. Later that night, however, the local Russian news announced that a submarine had crashed underwater, and that there was no hope for the crews survival. Unable to sit idly by, Piotr took charge and dove to the submarine and dislodged it. When he reached the surface Colossus was doused with media attention, which proclaimed him the most famous super-hero on the planet. Peter put his grudges with the X-Men asside and left Russia with Cyclops and Marvel Girl to meet up with the X-Men in Germany, who were in a heated battle with Xavier's son David. With the professor torn between killing his son and allowing thousands of innocents to perish, Colossus took action, and crushed David with a car, ending the battle, as well as the lives of David and Col. Betsy Braddock.

Colossus and a handful of X-Men were invited to an evening out with the Hellfire Club, the X-Men's secret financers, at their headquarters in New York. There he met the Russian President, who had grown up merely a few miles from Piotr's collective in Russia. The group, including Jean, Ororo, and the Professor, were ambushed and captured. In truth, Hellfire had been monitoring Jean Grey, in order to user her as a vehicle to bring forth their ancient god, the Phoenix. The Phoenix arose in Jean, and she murdered the Hellfire Club. However, Xavier was able to force the Phoenix into submission, freeing Jean from it's grasp. Colossus was unharmed during the ordeal.

Colossus and the X-Men were forced out of the mansion with the U.S. Government on their backs. In the final climactic battle between the X-Men and The Ultimates, America's premier superhero team, Colossus stood his own against Iron Man and Thor, and was able to withstand a localized nuclear explosion direct at him by Hawkeye, proving Piotr's amazing strength.

After hiding out in a suburban New York home (unbeknownst to it's residents, thanks to Marvel Girl's abilities) Colossus and the X-Men located Magneto's flying citidal, using a signal sent by the captured Cyclops. Upon their arrival they were subdued by Magneto's control over the iron in their blood. Using his unimaginable power, Colossus was able to overcome Magneto's influence and broke free, attacking him mercilessly for the harm he had inflicted on Peter's friends, especially Wolverine. His concentration destroyed, Magneto released the X-Men who were able to apprehend him, all thanks to Piotr's determination.


In the Ultimate continuity, it has been shown that Colossus's eyes do not turn into steel, but instead remain organic and vulnerable (in the normal continuity, Colossus's eyes have been able to withstand a gunshot). Also, unlike the "normal" Colossus, when he is knocked unconscious he remains in whatever form he was in (See the "Hellfire and Brimstone" plotline)everything else seems to stay the same. In the Ultimate War crossover with the Ultimates, Colossus fought Thor and had the upper hand against the thunder god.

Colossus possesses the mutant ability to transform his entire body into solid, nigh-invulnerable, organic osmium steel. In this "armored" form, Colossus posses sufficient strength to lift over 100 tons. He can withstand the impact of a 5,000 ton speeding train, the ballistic penetration of a 110 millimeter Howitzer shell, and the explosive force of nearly 500 pounds of TNT. He is highly resistant to heat and cold (being able to receive full-force blasts from The Human Torch and/or Ice Man without taking damage) and can survive temperature extremes from -320o Fahrenheit to approximately 9000o F. Being conductive, he is immune to electricity. Colossus's armored body cannot rust.

Powers and abilities
Colossus possesses the ability to transform his entire body into a form of organic steel, named by some sources as analogous to Osmium, but of still unknown composition.

In this transformed state, Colossus' body gains around a inch in additional height and his body mass is at least doubled. The source of Colossus' gain in height and muscle mass is unknown, but possibly extradimensional.

While in his armored form, Colossus possesses significant superhuman strength. As a teenager, Colossus powers allow him in "Class 100" Power Level (able to lift in excess of 100 tons). The full limit of his strength has not been revealed. Aside from this great strength, in his steel form he possesses a high degree of invulnerability to conventional injury. Colossus' armored form can withstand extreme temperatures, falls from great heights, high caliber machine gun shells, large amounts of explosives, etc without sustaining injury. A side effect of his armor's strength enhancing effect is a vastly greater muscle efficiency than an ordinary human. While armored, his muscles generate considerably less lactic acids than those of ordinary humans, granting him superhuman levels of stamina in all activities. He can exert himself at peak capacity for several days before fatigue begins to impair him. Colossus' armored form is also invulnerable to rusting under Earthly conditions. Colossus has demonstrated very little need, if any, to breathe while he is in his armored state and there's no known limit as to how long he can remain in this form. Colossus also has no limit with his strength, as long as he ages works out in his normal form his steel form will continue to grow stronger.

Colossus cannot transform a single portion of his body into this armored state, he must either be completely transformed or remain within his normal state.

Where's this from ?

Something like Ultimate X or something like that. Go to the ultimate marvel universe and you can find it from there.

Originally posted by olympian
Probably some scans will show up. If thats what happened then Wman didnt badly portraited. Not that Thing cant give him a fight but hes not stronger. Wman is a notch below guys like Herc and Thor. Thing's definately not near Wonder Mans strength level, as this scan shows...

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/4923/wondythingstrength1cr.jpg




Btw, since when is it Ultimate version of Colossus he fighting? Not that it matters, Wonder Man beats them both. Colossus is cool and all, but he's not at WM's level in any area. Colossus isn't even as good at h2h as Simon. Which WM definately exploit.

I think that Colossus is a better fighter.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I think that Colossus is a better fighter. Wonder Man trained with Cap A and learned quite alot. He's actually a pretty good fighter. As for Colossus, personally i can't remember him showing a great deal of skill.

No, but he has trained on Danger Room nearly every day since he was like 15...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No, but he has trained on Danger Room nearly every day since he was like 15... Yeah, just like Wolverine is a master Samurai and martial artist.

Get my drift...?

Yeah...but when has Wonder Man shown any exceptional fighting skills?

Not lately. But in his series he showcased it quite a bit.

So how did Colossus beat Thor.... a God, oh yea he did Defeat Ironman to, how did he manage this.

Not only does Colossus work in the dangeroom everyday, but he was also in the Russian Mafia so that counts for some combat experiance .

Originally posted by soujaboy09
So how did Colossus beat Thor.... a God, oh yea he did Defeat Ironman to, how did he manage this.

Not only does Colossus work in the dangeroom everyday, but he was also in the Russian Mafia so that counts for some combat experiance .

He did that on ULTIMATE Universe.

You realize that Ultimate and 616 are different universes?

Not-the-same-Colossus.

I'm not saying Colossus has no skill at all, i'm just saying, IMO, that Wonder Man is the better h2h fighter.

yes I do but it was never stated which Colossus we were talking about, you just said Colossus not 616 or Ultimate

Originally posted by soujaboy09
yes I do but it was never stated which Colossus we were talking about, you just said Colossus not 616 or Ultimate Generally when people don't mention what version it's assumed that they mean the 616 version. Well, in my case anyway...

Originally posted by soujaboy09
yes I do but it was never stated which Colossus we were talking about, you just said Colossus not 616 or Ultimate

In these forums, when someone says Colossus they mean normal Colossus. If the thread maker would have talked about Ultimate one, he would have said Ultimate Colossus VS Wonder Man.

sorry, my bad well in this case I think Wonderman takes this one.

Does anybody remember what issuse Colossus broke some kind of barrier to get to Nightcrawler? It was from the 1980's I believe.

Its shows great strength. Becuause Dr. Strange coulndn't break it and Wolverines claws and Storms lightning could not break aslo.

If you found the issue number, tell me.

We should really make a Colossus Respect thread, just to see what he is capable.

It was in X-men annual #4. I scanned the page from my Essential X-men vol. 3.

Nightcrawler was trapped inside a magical ice floor. The combined might of Dr. Strange, Wolverines claws and Storms lightning coudn't break the barrier.

Colossus used his power to shatter the floor.


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossusann4.jpg

Wow...that's strong.

Well, we have one feat for Colossus...

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Thing's definately not near Wonder Mans strength level, as this scan shows...



That was from an old issue of Marvel Two in One. I always thought htat scene where the Thing was having trouble lifting Wonderman's barbell was a bit odd as it had mentioned earlier that the barbell weighed two tons. Even in his original state, that weight should have been easy for the Thing. Sloppy writing I guess.

Anyway, there was a more "recent" fight in Thing #5 (his old series, not his new one). The puppet master took control of wonder man, then the she-hulk, and finally spider-man to take down the Thing.

Wonderman was the Thing's first opponent so both were fresh. The Thing made mention of the fact that he was a lot tougher then wonderman, but even so Wonderman was folding faster then he should of (since he was being controlled), basically stating that he was confident he'd win over Wonderman regardless. The fight ended with a knockout by the Thing. Wonderman got in one good shot and the rest of the fight was the Thing dominating. I have the comic but it's buried down in my basement so unfortunately no scans at the moment.

However, Wonderman has gotten some powerups since then, enough to have enabled him to battle the Hulk on even terms at least once (in Wonderman's series).

A close fight, but Wonderman would probably take it 6/10

Well Simons ability to fly is gonna help him alot. That's why he gets more wins. If he goes h2h I see Colossus pullin out a win.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandRogue2.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well Simons ability to fly is gonna help him alot. That's why he gets more wins. If he goes h2h I see Colossus pullin out a win.


If they go hand to hand, Colossus is gonna wish he could fly. Wonder Man has knocked Thor around, KO'd the Abomination, knocked out Atlas, etc...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If he goes h2h I see Colossus pullin out a win.

I can see that too. 1 win out of 10 for Colossus. He could catch Wonder Man on a bad day.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
If they go hand to hand, Colossus is gonna wish he could fly. Wonder Man has knocked Thor around, KO'd the Abomination, knocked out Atlas, etc... Don't forget he was knocked out by Thing.

I said Wonderman could take 616 Colossus out but im having second thoughts. If it went to h2h combat Colossus would take the win, I mean the man has Osmium skin he really wouldn't be hurt that much, and he has worked in the Dangeroom for a long while so I think Colossus could take this one. Even if Wonderman flyed aroung he realy couldn't do any real damage, and if The battle got to bad Colossus could just throw him in the water and drown him.

Drowning Wonderman won't work. He does not need to breathe the same as Colossus.

But Colossus has better durabilty and fighting skills then Wonderman. All you have to do is read their entries in the handbooks. Colossus is rated higher in bothof those categories. Strength is probably even.

If they go h2h I see Colossus taking 7/10. If Wonderman uses his flight advantage his wins more than Colossus.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Drowning Wonderman won't work. He does not need to breathe the same as Colossus.

But Colossus has better durabilty and fighting skills then Wonderman. All you have to do is read their entries in the handbooks. Colossus is rated higher in bothof those categories. Strength is probably even.

If they go h2h I see Colossus taking 7/10. If Wonderman uses his flight advantage his wins more than Colossus.

Their skills are practically the same. Colossus had the danger room, and Wonder Man learned from Cap and Hawkeye.

Durability isn't the same. Pete Wisdom stuck hot knives in Colossus's back. And he was screaming in pain. Wonder Man got put through a sun, survived the Nega Bomb while just a few feet away. Wonder Man can be KO'd, but as of yet, nothing has pierced his skin.

It's gonna take a bit more than what Colossus can dish out to put Wonder Man down.

Strength = WM
Speed = WM
Agility = WM(Can jump huge distances just like the Hulk)
Durability = WM (See above)
Stamina = WM (Immortal could literally fight forever if need be)
Skill = Tie... Maybe Colossus has a very slight edge

the whole wonderman being put though the sun and the planet smelled like pis (plot induced stupidy) to me. what makes that feet any more creidble then wolverine surviving a nuke? when a person thinks about how much power the sun has it is more then anybody should be able to take serously the gravtiy alone is so strong that even even top tier class 100 shouldn't be able to stand it. By the way the new colossus can take point blank sentinel fire and not even flinch. I'm not say that colossus is going to win more times out of 10 but the wonderman feet of surviving a star is utterly stupid.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock


Durability isn't the same. Pete Wisdom stuck hot knives in Colossus's back. And he was screaming in pain. Wonder Man got put through a sun, survived the Nega Bomb while just a few feet away. Wonder Man can be KO'd, but as of yet, nothing has pierced his skin.

Colossus don't have to pierce his skin to beat him. He can punch him out like Thing did.

Your saying he can survive the Sun but Thing can knock him out?

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Their skills are practically the same. Colossus had the danger room, and Wonder Man learned from Cap and Hawkeye.

Durability isn't the same. Pete Wisdom stuck hot knives in Colossus's back. And he was screaming in pain. Wonder Man got put through a sun, survived the Nega Bomb while just a few feet away. Wonder Man can be KO'd, but as of yet, nothing has pierced his skin.

It's gonna take a bit more than what Colossus can dish out to put Wonder Man down.

Strength = WM
Speed = WM
Agility = WM(Can jump huge distances just like the Hulk)
Durability = WM (See above)
Stamina = WM (Immortal could literally fight forever if need be)
Skill = Tie... Maybe Colossus has a very slight edge

It's not really fair to just say "Hot knives" from Peter Wisdom pierced him. They're not exactly knives. Nor are they just hot. They're energy blades. Which would lead one to assume that the energy produced would be sufficient enough to pierce Colossus.

Colossus' durability has also withstood some crazy, insane things. Colossus was thrown into a star and effortlessly withstood it. I remember him telling Wolverine that he hardly got a tan when the X-men rescued him. So, if you wanna go that route, Colossus has also withstood the damage of a star. And I'd still definitely say that Colossus' durability is higher than Wonderman's.

I'm gonna say have to say 6/10 for Wonderman fighting with all his abilities, and give Colossus 7/10 if it goes purely hand-to-hand.

Uhm Wonderman is a being of Ionic energy... how is colossus goign to hurt him really?

Originally posted by jasofisc
the whole wonderman being put though the sun and the planet smelled like pis (plot induced stupidy) to me. what makes that feet any more creidble then wolverine surviving a nuke? when a person thinks about how much power the sun has it is more then anybody should be able to take serously the gravtiy alone is so strong that even even top tier class 100 shouldn't be able to stand it. By the way the new colossus can take point blank sentinel fire and not even flinch. I'm not say that colossus is going to win more times out of 10 but the wonderman feet of surviving a star is utterly stupid.

No it's not.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/hyperionplanetdive9xq6ov.jpg

He's just that damn tough.

And he Colossus still loses if he goes toe to toe with WM. 9 out of 10.

Wonder Man beat the original Avengers team (Cap, IM, Thor, Giant Man, Wasp) Colossus goes down hard...

what ever adam warlock that scan is utter pis and you know it. Almost no one should be able to take that expeshaly a guy that's died more times then jean grey. that scan is up their with the wolverine takeing a nuke.

Originally posted by jasofisc
what ever adam warlock that scan is utter pis and you know it. Almost no one should be able to take that expeshaly a guy that's died more times then jean grey. that scan is up their with the wolverine takeing a nuke.

it was not a nuke......

Wow I didn't realize WM can beat Thor, Iron Man and cap all at once.

He should be more in the Cosmic level.............

I dont Think Wonderman is as good as you say I think Thor could take him out by himself.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
I dont Think Wonderman is as good as you say I think Thor could take him out by himself. Well he survived the Sun and beat the Avengers by himself.

He is on the herald level it seems.

I think Wonderman would get the W on collossus.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
I dont Think Wonderman is as good as you say I think Thor could take him out by himself.

He can take Thor. 3 to 4 times out of 10.

He took most of the Avengers down in his first appearance including Thor. He also took them down again Thor included when he was under the influence of the Enchantress. WM took on Pagan who's strength level/durability level was near Nefaria's.

Colossus is good, but he just doesn't have what it takes to take WM down. WM outclasses him in nearly every category.

when ever wm fights the hulk he gets man handled. Not to menchen he got beat on a regular basis by atlas back when he was not in his ionic form (the same form he got pushed into a star with which again I still think is crap) so I really don't have a good idea of how powerful this guy is. sure he has inpressive feats but so does everybody. I think if we look at the stats we can see that colossus and WM are pretty evenly matched but I would still give the edge to WM.

If Wonderman is so great not saying that he isn't Why hasn't he defeated Apocalypse, or Galactus. Colossus might not get the win but I think he would put up a good fight, for he did take out the whole supersouja team. I also think powers vary between diffren't writers like they will be strong in one comix, and weak in another.

Originally posted by jasofisc
when ever wm fights the hulk he gets man handled. Not to menchen he got beat on a regular basis by atlas back when he was not in his ionic form (the same form he got pushed into a star with which again I still think is crap) so I really don't have a good idea of how powerful this guy is. sure he has inpressive feats but so does everybody. I think if we look at the stats we can see that colossus and WM are pretty evenly matched but I would still give the edge to WM.

When Atlas first came out he stomped Simon, twice. But Simon has had quite a bit of upgrades since then. Their last 3 matches ended with WM curb stomping Atlas. That's it. WM is still leading.

1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/wm1-fight.jpg


2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/wm25-fight.jpg

Here's a pic showing that even he can alter his size just like Goliath/Atlas.

3.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/tb42-fight.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/thunderbolts042pic3.gif

You are right. WM wins more times than not.

Originally posted by soujaboy09
If Wonderman is so great not saying that he isn't Why hasn't he defeated Apocalypse, or Galactus. Colossus might not get the win but I think he would put up a good fight, for he did take out the whole supersouja team. I also think powers vary between diffren't writers like they will be strong in one comix, and weak in another.

So what, could Colossus take on Galactus? Hell no. Could Colossus take on Apoc by himself? It's possible. After what namor did to Apoc, I'm sure WM could hand Apoc his ass in a similar fashion. Namor has been KO'd by Wonder Man.

Power wise, WM is to versatile. He's got the basics, flight, superhuman strength, super speed, invulnerability, high stamina, plus he's immortal, he never needs to eat, sleep, or breathe, can alter his size to Atlas size levels with the proportionate strength, fire off energy beams from his eyes as he did to War Machine. Colossus is outclassed.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wow I didn't realize WM can beat Thor, Iron Man and cap all at once.

He should be more in the Cosmic level.............

You should have read his first comic, then you would have known.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
You should have read his first comic, then you would have known. Obviously.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Drowning Wonderman won't work. He does not need to breathe the same as Colossus.

But Colossus has better durabilty and fighting skills then Wonderman. All you have to do is read their entries in the handbooks. Colossus is rated higher in bothof those categories. Strength is probably even.

If they go h2h I see Colossus taking 7/10. If Wonderman uses his flight advantage his wins more than Colossus. What makes you think Colossus has better durability and fighting skills than Simon? Could you tell or show some examples of stuff that puts Colossus above Simon in these areas?



And i think it's funny how people disregard handbooks all the time, until it actually shows their fav character in a better light. (not targeting you snoopdogg, it's just something i've noticed in general lately))

Handbooks are the Bible of Satan.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
What makes you think Colossus has better durability and fighting skills than Simon? Could you tell or show some examples of stuff that puts Colossus above Simon in these areas?



And i think it's funny how people disregard handbooks all the time, until it actually shows their fav character in a better light. (not targeting you snoopdogg, it's just something i've noticed in general lately)) Hey I didn't say it the Marvel editors did.

Colossus fighitng skill is 4 while WM's is a two. Colossus max temp. he can take 9000 degreees while Simons is 1500.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Hey I didn't say it the Marvel editors did.

Colossus fighitng skill is 4 while WM's is a two. Colossus max temp. he can take 9000 degreees while Simons is 1500.

Don't shoot the messenger. Yeah, but i'm talking about actual feats in comics that suggest Colossus is better in those areas. Forget the handbooks for now

Originally posted by Lucid Lui




And i think it's funny how people disregard handbooks all the time, until it actually shows their fav character in a better light. I have never disregared a handbook. A handbook is a tool the writers should use to write stories. And when they show something outside the handbook it should be considered bad-writing.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I have never disregared a handbook. A handbook is a tool the writers should use to write stories. And when they show something outside the handbook it should be considered bad-writing. Yes yes, that's why i said i wasn't targeting you. It's something i see alot of places on the net. Whenever someone brings up a handbook it'll just be disregarded as crap (by most), but then when the handbook works in their favour, the people who bashed it, are all for it. I wasn't saying that you do this.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Yeah, but i'm talking about actual feats in comics that suggest Colossus is better in those areas. Forget the handbooks for now Does judo tossing a 50 ft. robot count?

I agree with snoop handbooks help us see the difference between pis and an acutal feat. That is not to say that the hand book can't be wrong with consistent showings of a person in comics.

in reference to adam warlock's comment about apoc, are we acutaly considering house of M battles as cannon. I hope not, most of the fights were pis and inconsistant with the character.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Hey I didn't say it the Marvel editors did.

Colossus fighitng skill is 4 while WM's is a two. Colossus max temp. he can take 9000 degreees while Simons is 1500.

Don't shoot the messenger.

And Namor's fighting skill is 3. Iron Fist rank lower then Punisher...Gambits energy projection is ranked as 2...it's not very good source.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I have never disregared a handbook. A handbook is a tool the writers should use to write stories. And when they show something outside the handbook it should be considered bad-writing.

What if the character has existed in comic years before the handbook writer was even born? Before handbooks were even invented?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And Namor's fighting skill is 3. Iron Fist rank lower then Punisher...Gambits energy projection is ranked as 2...it's not very good source. Shang-chi is the master of Kung-Fu and that's it. Just one style like the 5 rating indicates.

Castle was in the special forces and leanred various martial arts.

Gambit cannot project energy. I don't think some people truly understand the Marvel power grids.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Hey I didn't say it the Marvel editors did.

Colossus fighitng skill is 4 while WM's is a two. Colossus max temp. he can take 9000 degreees while Simons is 1500.

Don't shoot the messenger.

A sun is hotter than 1500 degrees.

I'm pretty sure Namor has whooped on Apoc. If he did, I'm pretty sure WM can as well.

Cannot...project...energy? Is kinetic energy not energy?

What about all the countless strenght and speed mistakes the handbooks have made? Because they have practically mislabeled everything in etc. Namor's bio...

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
A sun is hotter than 1500 degrees.

I'm pretty sure Namor has whooped on Apoc. If he did, I'm pretty sure WM can as well. Can you say bad-writing?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Does judo tossing a 50 ft. robot count? It's a decent start. Anymore? I'll try to post up some scans showing Simons fighting skills tonight.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Cannot...project...energy? Is kinetic energy not energy?

What about all the countless strenght and speed mistakes the handbooks have made? Because they have practically mislabeled everything in etc. Namor's bio... Gambit cannot shoot energy out of his hands, eyes or whatever.

He can only chargs objects with energy making them explode.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Can you say bad-writing?

No it's not.

Alright...

What about the strength and speed mistakes?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Alright...

What about the strength and speed mistakes? *cough* badwriting perhaps?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
*cough* badwriting perhaps?

Just like Superman not getting KO'd by the Mjolnir? That's bad writing.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
*cough* badwriting perhaps?

So...Namor's stories were badwriting even 43 years before the first handbook was even published?

Touche...

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Just like Superman not getting KO'd by the Mjolnir? That's bad writing. DC does not give bios like Marvel does so we cannot assume this.


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ThingandWonderman.jpg

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So...Namor's stories were badwriting even 43 years before the first handbook was even published?

Touche... That was before anybody actually gave a sh!t.

Snoop thinks the handbook is absolute, when it's not.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Thing's definately not near Wonder Mans strength level, as this scan shows...

http://img449.imageshack.us/img449/4923/wondythingstrength1cr.jpg




Btw, since when is it Ultimate version of Colossus he fighting? Not that it matters, Wonder Man beats them both. Colossus is cool and all, but he's not at WM's level in any area. Colossus isn't even as good at h2h as Simon. Which WM definately exploit.

The scan above is more impressive.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That was before anybody actually gave a sh!t.

So you admit that writers didn't research comics at all before writing handbooks? Namor just happened to left tankers twelve years before the first handbook was published...they put his strenght as 85. He outspeed fighters that went over 300 mph before the guy who got the idea for handbooks was born...they put his speed as 40 mph...

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Snoop thinks the handbook is absolute, when it's not. It's official information. And it's my opinion.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's official information. And it's my opinion.

It's official misinformation and your opinion.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
It's official misinformation and your opinion. Just like 90% of your posts.

I'm afraid that I'll trust the actual creators of characters rather then some random guy who just happens to write a handbook as an official information...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I'm afraid that I'll trust the actual creators of characters rather then some random guy who just happens to write a handbook as an official information... I think the creator of Namor is dead.

Is he not?

Yes...

again the whole wm being put though a star is PIS and bad writting however i do see dark crawler's point about namor but not every character is the same. the hand book in pretty good in a genral since I only see very few characters that their incorrect about. You can't use the PIS feats of a charter and not the bad feats when ever you want. If we did we could say that cap. amerca is level seven in all catagories.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Shang-chi is the master of Kung-Fu and that's it. Just one style like the 5 rating indicates.

Castle was in the special forces and leanred various martial arts.

Gambit cannot project energy. I don't think some people truly understand the Marvel power grids.

Do you have the slightest clue as to how many styles are part of "Kung Fu"? Hundreds. There are literally hundreds of different styles of the all-encompassing Kung Fu. Far more styles than Frank will ever learn in his life. Shang Chi's fighting ability level should be much higher than it is.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Do you have the slightest clue as to how many styles are part of "Kung Fu"? Hundreds. There are literally hundreds of different styles of the all-encompassing Kung Fu. Far more styles than Frank will ever learn in his life. Shang Chi's fighting ability level should be much higher than it is. Yea but in the end they are still called "Kung-Fu".

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Yea but in the end they are still called "Kung-Fu".

But Frank is still better fighter?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But Frank is still better fighter? I don't know. I have not seen a fight between the two.

What are Franks best fighting feats in comics? You know that everything in handbooks must be backed up by comics before they are accepted here?

Etc. I have proven that the handbooks were wrong in Namor's strength, speed, fighting skills and intelligence...and someone might prove that handbooks are right about someones fighting skills and other stuff.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
What are Franks best fighting feats in comics? You know that everything in handbooks must be backed up by comics before they are accepted here?

Etc. I have proven that the handbooks were wrong in Namor's strength, speed, fighting skills and intelligence...and someone might prove that handbooks are right about someones fighting skills and other stuff. I'm going to answer this by saying I don't really care. I hope you don't take it the wrong way.

Believe what you want to and I'll do the same.

Thats what I will do...

Wonder Man wins!!!