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If you think no then explain this select picture. It shows Mace Windu leaving the Jedi Library. But as far as I remember there wasn't a scene with Mace in the library. So what is this about?

as far as I can see, there is no library in it

He is walking out of the Jedi Library. That's what it said in the French Magazine.

it could be a scene that was deleted from the film and never to be used

Highly unlikely, the Kamino records would have been deleted years before AOTC.

but how come it's said that only a jedi could delete the archives.
isn't that pure technological?

dooku was a jedi or syfo-dias did it just before he was killed

Yoda simply means that only a Jedi has access to the Archives, Dexx. So Mujaffa is correct.

I bet it was Dooku.

Ofcourse it was dooku, unless palpy himself....I was only asking why can only Jedis delete the archives. Others must acces them and there for gain control of the information. Coruscant crackers.

It is presumably a closed system so it doesn't matter how good a hacker you are.

Yup

That pic isn't of Mace leaving the Jedi Library.

It's of Mace leaving a building alongside Yoda, who was to be added in later with CGI.

"It's not the system I'm familiar with"
perhaps meaning that it has been deleted for some time?

It looks like they could add the big grand hallway where Yoda, Mace, and Ob1 talk about Anakin.

I'm pretty damn sure Mace isn't a bad guy.

Well, he IS bald....

If anyone has pictures of the library then post them and we can compare them. The French Mag said it was the library.

And why Mace in the library in complete darkness?

THis was part of a scene that was cut, where Mace and Yoda discuss the influence of the Dark Side.

How do you know this?

Lots of reliable sources, like TFN

KJ, if you are interested, I can send you the text of AOTC WITH the cut scenes (and that are a lot!)

Yip, send me it please.

msn? ICQ? email?

Yers, could you do the same for me please?

Email would be fine.

Hmmm.

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good going Corran...

But, I've got the option to allow Emails set to yes!!!!!

Can't see what else would need to be set!!!!

E-mail me as well.

and me please

I seem to remember that this picture of Mace have Yoda added to it later.

There is one yes, I've seen it too.

On the AOTC comentary, Lucas says that someone in the "Jedi Order" deleted the files and we'll find out who and why in Ep3.

He made it sound like it was meant to be a mystery therefore I don't think it was Dooku or Palpatine because any fan with half a brain would suspect them anyway.

Lucas made it sound like it was going to be a big revelation or am I reading too much into it.

that does sound like something of a revelation will happen yes...

We'll just have to wait til 2005.

But I at first suspected Dooku, but as you said that's too obivious.

Could be part of the Sifo-Dyas mystery.

we'll find out in episode 3 huh?

Yeah, but this board becomes pointless if we don't spend ages arguing about it first.

i think it was dukoo

I think it was Dooku too, or That Sifo Dyas dude

The only problem with Sifo-Dyas is that we don't know anything about him so it wouldn't be that big a revelation for us.

Why should it be a revelation, it is like in ROTJ
Sister but I have no sister"
And you sitting there hmmmm I wonder who Lukes sister is.

No, but Lucas made it sound like it was a mystery that was going to be revealed in Ep3.

Sifo-Dyas isn't a revelation for us because we don't know who he is anyway.

it will be a revelation to learn who he is

george lucas has lost his mind. its going to end up being luke skywalker or yoda or hell, if he's as crazy as i think he is, probably gandolf.

Well, whether it is a relevation in that sense or not depends on who Sifo-Dyas actually is. I wouldn't read too much into it anyway; GL said several things would be explained in AOTC that were not.

so we will wait

I don't think it would be Dooku because as you remember in Ep II he wanted to know how they got an army that fast. And also they would probably be to obvious

But Dooku was just bullshitting the Geonosians! He knew full well! He hired Jango to help create that Clone Army!

as Darth Tyrannus

I think Sifo-Dyas is exactly who he is said to be: a Jedi Master who died almost ten years ago. Now, he might have been killed by Dooku or Palpy, but all in all it seems like Palpy or Dooku placed the order probably immediately after or just before Sifo-Dyas' death. That way the order would be placed by a credible Jedi Council Member (who never showed up in TPM though).

it would be cool if Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas, or even better Maul killed him right before the Naboo incident

Doubt that. Alarm bells would have been ringing in the Jedi Council and they never saw the Sith coming until OB1 killed Maul.

how would they have known it was a sith killing him?, they would probably get message that he was killed. To me it seems like they aint to sure what happened to Sifo

A Jedi Master cut to bits by a light sabre..... well, that sure would ring an alarm bell.

why the heck would Mace erase Kamino??? I always thought it was Dooku who did it before he left the jedi order.

Nobody really know about how he died (sifo dyas), well at least I got that impression

I've never thought was was an outright bad-guy. I don't think he's evil or a Sith. But what if he knows that the Sith have returned and that the balance of the force is slipping (like Lucas said).

What if he knows the Jedi could be wiped out and orders the Clone Army?

Windu has to be bad.... He and Dooku seemed to know each other too well when Mace goes to the arena... and see how he looks up at
Dooku when he lops Jango's head off as if to say "yah well how do you
like them apples... see what you made me do?"

well Dooku was once a jedi so I guess Mace knew him form that time

mace erasing kamino from the archives? highly unlikely.

Okay, look, Obi-wan says to Yoda and Mace that master sifo dyas ordered the clones ten years ago, "I was under the impression he was killed BEFORE THAT" meaning that he was dead and couldn't order an army, clearly someone was using identity, they probably used that same identity to crack the jedi archives and take out Kamino. And obviously Dooku knows about the clones, as someone said, he commissoned them and was the one to hire Jango, the entire Clone War is concocted by Palpatine to bring him closer to being emperor. It was his plan all along, that's why he had the clones made ten years earlier. He plans ahead. Both sides of the clone wars are being tricked. Both sides are being controled by the Sith. Its all a huge game to give Palpatine ultimate power and an army to back it up.

to get revenge against the jedi for what they've done to the sith. Its a several thousand year long revenge story.

which is why the most apporpriate title is "Revenge of the Sith" for both its parralels to ROTJ and it's importance to the plot when you realize its the whole reason Palpatine has done all this.

yeah it is a tilte candidate for sure

yeah, I know most people know that, I just through it in there for newbies

and because it was a nice powerful exit for my point...

I have argued the point that it wont be "Rise of the Empire" because T3 used "Rise of the machines". They are both the third chapter and no way GL is gonna use such a similar title in his finale

especially not similar to crap!

I was always under the impression that Dooku did the deleting...

Ok i will give you all my opinion of who Syfo Dias is and i feel it is all backed up pretty well (better then most other theories)............

Qui-Gon - Heres why (most movie facts)........

-----------------------
-It cannot be Dooku because they knew he left of his
own will, but he didnt die.

-It simply cannot be Palpatine because the council
knew who syfo was.

-It cannot be Maul for multiple reasons, one being the
only thing they knew about darth maul was that he was
dark jedi and his name was maul.

-In ep 2 Dooku mentions about Gon already knowing
about the separatists.

-In ep 2 Dooku also wishes Qui-Gon was still around.
(perhaps to help him?)

-Qui Gon was Dookus apprentice. That bond is very
strong and the apprentice typiclly follows the
teacher.

-Jedi council knew of Syfo, they knew he died 10 years
before the clone wars, Qui Gon died 10 years before
the clone wars.

-It is not uncommon for Jedi to take up multiple names
( obi wan, Yoda, ect)

-He did not dissapear when he died in episode 1. something ALL jedi do unless your working with the dark side.....

-The emperor knew who anakin was and his potential. As a dying wish to his studant obi wan, Qui Gon asked him to train anakin since he would not be able to. I dont know about you, but what ive read and seen of Qui Gon, he doesnt seem like the knowingly evil type. In other words, maybe someone he knew and trusted, who wasent in the council, had some influence on his decissions (i think that is perfectly clear with his death actually). So in my opinion it would either be palpatine or dooku who told him to do this.

-Gon would also have the ability to delete the planet cords from the jedi library. I dont think Gon thought he was doing something bad by doing this. Simply because if emperor palpatine asked him to go to kamino then delete the cords to this planet it would all be for the protection of the senate.

It all fits so perfectly.

about your points:

It CAN be Dooku, Jango was recruited "by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden" and Dooku is Darth Tyranus ("Welcome home, Lord Tyranus"

It CAN be Palpatine, cause it's clear from the conversation that the real Syfo didn't do it ("Master Syfo Dyas was killed almost ten years ago!", it was placed there to let the audience pounder about it all.

you're right, it's not maul as GL once said (or McCallum), he got bisected to show that it was over with him, done, not returning

You're mistaken about mentioning QGJ... he says that if QGJ was with him NOW at this point in time, he would join dooku with the seperatists, he did NOT say that at the time of TPM there were already seperatists or that QGJ had sympathy for anti-republicans

Dooku says this to convince OB1 to join the dark side (hey, I did it, your masters master, and your master would do it too, why not you?)

The apprentice doesn't always follow the master and that's not a point
"Do not defy the council master, not again!", OB1 is by the book while his master was more rogue

And no, Syfo Dyas died ALMOST ten years ago, QGJ died EXACTLY ten years ago (this has been discussed for a long time already)

the only one as far as I can remember with two names is Obi-Wan (Ben), I have no idea where you get the Yoda one from!

and no, it's clear that disappearing is NOT something every jedi would do, than it would be a common trick and if you see ANH, Vader clearly doesn't know it, hence it's something new.

QGJ specificly says "he IS the chosen one, you must see it!" and to shmi "he has special reflexes, it's a jedi trick", he did not get influenced in any way when he said that cause he didn't had contact with anyone, he knew ani was the chosen one when OB1 said that the readings were off the chart.

your last point is pretty weak too, I mean, it could also be Jocasta or Yaddle or even Plo Koon! just needs to be a jedi same arguement about not knowing they did something bad can go for them

so, to me, your theory does not fit perfectly at all!

Originally posted by yerssot




In the written story of explaining why their is such a strong dark side presence on degobah, yoda is forced to kill a powerful dark jedi on the planet. In the story Yodas name is "Minch".



Yes every jedi does this. The only time it doesnt is when your phyical body is not pure of the light. Infact george lucas even said that we will find out why Qui Gon didnt dissapear in a later episode. How does vader not know it? He pokes at obi wans clothes, thats it.


Maybe not, im not saying he did. But he sure did have contact with people AFTER they found anakin. Including Senator Palpatine.


Sure, but it just fits so nicely as qui gon.

nice to know about Minch, but it's not in the movies, and I doubt it's in any novel or radio drama, so your point about that just completely fails, since it's not canon.

and no, not every jedi does, it's easy, if every jedi did disappear, Vader wouldn't be all surprised and poking OB1's clothes to make sure he's dead and not just minimized or what ever, it's CLEAR that it's unknown to him and he even says so a few times "OB1 can no longer teach you", while in fact OB1 did by ordering him to go to Yoda on Dagobah! it is a new trick and not about "pure of the light"

QGJ already knew on TATOOINE that anakin was special due to his extremely high concentration of midi-chlorians, he didn't need any advice from anyone about that, not even after getting to coruscant.


Maybe not, im not saying he did. But he sure did have contact with people AFTER they found anakin. Including Senator Palpatine.

oh well, to me it fits even better if it would be dooku

Star Wars : Tales issue 16, approved historical story from lucas.



How can you tell he is suprised?
Can you see through his mask?
All you know is he poked at the discarded clothes.
Look, this is a STAR WARS FACT TOLD BY LUCAS WHEN
HE ORIGINALLY MADE THE MOVIES
Jedi dissapear because their body is clean and pure with the light side.
When a jedi starts to use dark methods of the force then his body becomes "tainted" and he will not fully go over to the force peacefully.
And like it or not, Qui Gon did not dissapear.



Thats part of the mystery now isent it.
No one knows for a fact what he did or didnt do. We will just have to wait and see.
I'm pretty confident that its Qui Gon.
If its not, its not going to be the emperor or dooku.
It could just be that new never before seen dark jedi lucas spoke of.

to your point of star wars: tales issue 16, read this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f4/t20462.html

or in short: it's rubbish and does not hold any point what so ever

-
oh no, it's just normal that when you strike someone he immediatly disappears, that's absolutely normal, Vader just wanted to make sure ob1's clothes stayed down on the floor and didn't sprung up all of a sudden
I have no idea where you get that it's a "fact", cause he NEVER TOLD IT, THAT's why it's still a point of mystery, so before making things up, make sure that it's not tracable

-
I find it pretty weak to say that it's unknown if he got influenced, I mean, he got the idea of anakin being the chosen one while he was on tatooine when no one near him could influence him about his decision, and when anakin got rejected, he immediatly took him as his apprentice, where is the influence in that? palpatine saying "go on! train the lad! I need him later on!"?????

Vaders entire body language says "what the hell happened here"

can mace really do such a thang it could of been syfo-deis to keep his clone army secret from the sith or dooku or other jedi.

Sifo-Deis didn't actually comission the army... It was "Darth Tyrannus" aka Dooku. (or at least that's the only person we know of so far) Obi-Wan said Sifo-Deis was killed before the army was comissioned, 'member?

oh i remember now he was killed before the army was consructed. Then it could of been dooku or mace.

I doubt mace can have the chance to place the order though

no he didnt

well, I saw AOTC this week again on a paychanel and I refreshed my memory a tad

Sifo-Dyas died almost ten years ago, right?
well, when they go over the groups of the clones, does Lama Su say that the oldest group is EXACTLY ten years old or ALMOST ten? or doesn't it get any mentioning?

It was Dooku

Yeah, Dooku all the way.....

He even mentions the archives on Geonosis when talking to Mace in the arena.

oh coem on thsi is so fri**in obvious im suprised you havent seen it vader is still a padawan and knows soem thigns abotu the lgith side (eg certai nfore moves and meditation techniques you get the idea) so he woudl know diddly wether or not 'light' jedi dissapear he wasp okign aroudn the robe because he was unsure

no mace didnt it was count dooku

There is not a snowball in hell that Mace is the bad guy!
I'd say that Lord Grievous is a far better guess.

why would mace delete kamino?

Dooku was a jedi under the sith with sidious, sidious told him his plan and probaly asked dooku to delete the map since he was a jedi and only jedi can erase those files


i was just thinking, call me a div or whatever since i probaly only just got this but i figured out the clone wars was just to find out the better army for the empire and to get rid of the jedi in the way

Mace deleted Kamino. And while he was at it he begat Luke and Leia, taught Chewbacca the Force, constructed the first Death Star on his spare time and played professional basketball for the intergalactic Jedi Order team.

Doesn't that all sound ridiculously out of character?

Roffles and cake,

I just really hope they say more in Episode 3, But i dout they will tho, cause it would seems like Old news to them and they wound really wanna talk/bring it back out again

I think it was Palatine. Cuz he is a trained Jedi and would most likley have access to the files, so Dooku probably asked Palpatine to do it for him or somthing. But hey, what do I know?

Palpatine couldn't have gotten access to the Archives.
As Obi-Wan said, only a Jedi could have done it. Anakin hadn't turned evil nor had he become mistrusting of the Jedi Council yet.
Dooku is the only suspect who makes sense........