Religion vs Spirituality

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debbiejo
I feel religion would have you take it's word for it...That is why all religions ultimately fail..Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed. Religions asked you to learn form the experience of others..Spirituality urges you to seek your way...Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide in it..For Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it....I feel to know how far you have progressed in life and to measure how highly you have evolved is simply look to see what makes you "feel good", not "feel bad"....Knowing yourself is not denying what might feel good for you. Self-denial is self-destruction, of course not at the expense of others...It's funny how Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin...We all have that little voice inside us...It tells us what feels good for ourselves or not.....Whether physically or emotionally, Your thoughts?

lil bitchiness
I agree.

'' Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. ''

~ Buddha

I think this is spirituality at its best, but then again, im bias a little.

Shakyamunison
I believe this statement may be true for some religions, but not for all. The religion that I am a part of is able to integrate religion and spirituality to a greater degree. Although I admit that it is not a 100% integration, it is far better than most.

KPrince
Originally posted by debbiejo
I feel religion would have you take it's word for it...That is why all religions ultimately fail..Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed. Religions asked you to learn form the experience of others..Spirituality urges you to seek your way...Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide in it..For Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it....I feel to know how far you have progressed in life and to measure how highly you have evolved is simply look to see what makes you "feel good", not "feel bad"....Knowing yourself is not denying what might feel good for you. Self-denial is self-destruction, of course not at the expense of others...It's funny how Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin...We all have that little voice inside us...It tells us what feels good for ourselves or not.....Whether physically or emotionally, Your thoughts?

And yet, how many times have people adopted the mindset of "If it feels good do it" only to the detriment of others? A person can say "not at the expense of others" but how many people actually put that into action?

klimtog321

Shakyamunison

Storm

klimtog321
Well put Storm and agreed Shaky. I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive as the author suggests. It appears he does so to maintain his "Religion bad, spirituality good" theme. So the more he could denounce the other view, the more he could elevate his own view. In the same book, he writes that "Hitler didn't hurt anyone. In a sense he didn't inflict suffering, he ended it." By this logic, we should just push all the buttons and release the nukes to end all our suffering. Or maybe we just start with the author of the book 2guns Sorry, going off topic.

klimtog321
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
... Selfish spirituality would be just as bad as fanaticism. I think there must be a middle way, do you know of anyone who has talked about that kind of religion? laughing

Yes I do, almost everyday. And I think you are very accurate in calling it "selfish spirituality." It denies any responsibility for ones actions. It basically says that I'm fine as I am and if I do anything to hurt you it's your problem.

debbiejo
Originally posted by klimtog321
Well put Storm and agreed Shaky. I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive as the author suggests. It appears he does so to maintain his "Religion bad, spirituality good" theme. So the more he could denounce the other view, the more he could elevate his own view. In the same book, he writes that "Hitler didn't hurt anyone. In a sense he didn't inflict suffering, he ended it." By this logic, we should just push all the buttons and release the nukes to end all our suffering. Or maybe we just start with the author of the book 2guns Sorry, going off topic.

Everyone has that little voice...the one that lets you know if you are being true to ones self...Many religions want you to be true to "There view"...As for Hitler, It was at the expense of others..His little voice was disturbed...He wasn't seeking spirituality......I'm talking about unselfish spirituality.....Like I've said before, there are negatives and positives in this world...If you align yourself with the positives, you will have more positives in your life,...that's the good feeling and unselfish part of you...many however, look to religions to connect with god....and some do find some peace in that....I feel that you don't need a religious structure...Spirituality is a journey for one......The problem with many religions as I've said, is that they want you to only trust in their doctrines, not really find your own spirituality.

debbiejo
Originally posted by klimtog321
Yes I do, almost everyday. And I think you are very accurate in calling it "selfish spirituality." It denies any responsibility for ones actions. It basically says that I'm fine as I am and if I do anything to hurt you it's your problem. Then you are saying you would never try to force your view on another at the expense of that other person?...ie your doctrines....That your doctrine is more grounded then the others journey....because if you are, then you are not truly spiritual in the way I was describing, but a follower of others doctrines and thus to impose it on another.

Most religions are a "only our way, and certain rituals"....Spirituality is a wanting to be more connected with what god is.....Many religions won't accepted anything out of what they are told to believe..thinking that god couldn't actually have anything to say for us today.

If lets say a very religious Baptist who feels very spiritual looks down on lets say a Buddhist for believing something different about god....Then the Baptists is ignoring or putting down the Spiritual truth of the Buddhist, because it's the Baptist doctrine to do so...am I right?..Saving the Buddhist from Hell? ..and not truly allowing the Buddhists truth of what he/she has found.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I believe this statement may be true for some religions, but not for all. The religion that I am a part of is able to integrate religion and spirituality to a greater degree. Although I admit that it is not a 100% integration, it is far better than most.
Actually if you recall the words of Buddha he himself said

''My doctrine is not a doctrine but just a vision. I have not given you any set rules, I have not given you a system."

Thus, Buddha's inbtention was never to ''start a new religion'' but to help people enlighten themselves just like he has. He says he has not given us a system - its people that made it a system. There cannot be a system in spirituality - everyone's experience of spirituality is different.

I do not see Buddhism as a religion - i never have. Its a philosophy - its spirituality at its best, well defined in the post by debbiejo.

Shakyamunison

debbiejo
Whoooooooo two Buddhist fighting....starwars

laughing out loud laughing out loud

j/k

lil bitchiness

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I never mentioned anything about you - I said ''I never saw Buddhism as a religion''.
It simply does not comply to my understanding of spirituality and enlightment.

My replationship with my mind and thought, the way I achieve peace and happiness is my own, and cannot possibly be governed by anyone or anything else.

But agian, as Buddha said there are 84, 000 ways to reach the truth - theres no ''right'' or ''only'' way, and whichever way people pick - should be the one they feel will lead them to it.

I wasn't offended or anything, I just write that way sometimes. It comes from writing too many Engineering Orders.

I was trying to say that although you are one of many, many people who see Buddhism as a philosophy or spirituality there is a smaller number of people who see Buddhism as a religion. big grin

klimtog321

klimtog321

debbiejo

Shakyamunison

lil bitchiness

KPrince
Originally posted by debbiejo
I feel religion would have you take it's word for it...That is why all religions ultimately fail..Spirituality, on the other hand, will always succeed. Religions asked you to learn form the experience of others..Spirituality urges you to seek your way...Religion cannot stand spirituality. It cannot abide in it..For Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it....I feel to know how far you have progressed in life and to measure how highly you have evolved is simply look to see what makes you "feel good", not "feel bad"....Knowing yourself is not denying what might feel good for you. Self-denial is self-destruction, of course not at the expense of others...It's funny how Religions have made everything that is natural into a sin...We all have that little voice inside us...It tells us what feels good for ourselves or not.....Whether physically or emotionally, Your thoughts?

Interesting, "Spirituality may bring you to a different conclusion than a particular religion...and religion cannot tolerate it...", why do you say a particular religion, but then generalize religion? Looking to see what makes a person "feel good" can be dangerous, especially if such a view on life is adopted by the wrong person (ie. murderers, rapists, etc.)
"Self-denial is self-destruction" but consider that "self-indulgence is also self-destruction" (ie. various celebrities, athletes, drug addicts, etc.)
"of course not at the expense of others..." how can a person know to draw the line? That little voice or conscience tends to break down or run low on batteries at times, leaving only the negative impulses to govern a person's mind.
I gather from this argument that limits, especially within the boundaries of religion are considered bad. There are laws in society to govern people (ie. speed limits, judicial laws against murder, theft, etc.) If people adopted spirituality, then one can argue that the laws that govern our society are inconsequential because they are based upon what someone else believes to be wrong.

KPrince
Religion...in particular Christianity, has been accused of interpreting and misinterpreting the Bible for years. They are accused of reading into verses different ways in order to come out with favorable answers. In other words, they become God and decide for themselves what is the right answer and what is wrong or what "feels good" to them. Spirituality, by your definition, is that it "invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it". If this is true then Religion and Spirituality are one in the same and not distinct.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by KPrince
Religion...in particular Christianity, has been accused of interpreting and misinterpreting the Bible for years. They are accused of reading into verses different ways in order to come out with favorable answers. In other words, they become God and decide for themselves what is the right answer and what is wrong or what "feels good" to them. Spirituality, by your definition, is that it "invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own.."Feeling Good" is your way of telling yourself that your last thought was a truth, that your last word was wisdom, that your last action was love...The phrase "If it feels good do it", is not accepted by religions and makes one feel guilty for any pleasures as churches has defined it". If this is true then Religion and Spirituality are one in the same and not distinct.

One way to tell delusion from truth is, truth is consistent from beginning to end. Delusion will change as it creates it's own delusion.

debbiejo
Originally posted by KPrince

"Self-denial is self-destruction" but consider that "self-indulgence is also self-destruction" (ie. various celebrities, athletes, drug addicts, etc.)
"of course not at the expense of others..." how can a person know to draw the line? That little voice or conscience tends to break down or run low on batteries at times, leaving only the negative impulses to govern a person's mind.
OK...what I mean about self-denial is self-destruction is if you for instance, suppressing....suppressing anger = What?...suppressing fears = What?, suppressing your feelings = what?, suppressing love = what?...Living a lie = what?, hiding your feelings = what?....Living what someone else wants you to do instead of what you FEEL you should do = what?....Do you see what I mean...This is where the psychiatrist comes in and tries to help untie all your destructive self imposed denial......self denial = unhappy people, not living their "Truth", but instead trying to live up to what others want of them...Do you see what I mean?......Most people live their lives this way, makes for big money in the counselling business....of course this is not how we should live in this manor....Living in your truth lets loose all the "shoulds" and frees a person to be living in the moment, not the past and not fretting about the future...The present is just that a present...It's a gift to yourself.....It's that small voice that lets you know....the small voice that we are told not to listen to as children...the voice of parents telling their childern "don't feel like that...etc."...What a parent better might say is "Why do you feel this or that way", most however don't....No when we are adults...most don't even recognize the voice anymore...and it's the voice of Truth.

Most religions want to impose their truth on you...Of course many follow because they no longer know what truth is anymore...So, they're told what it is....and not all of it is correct.

klimtog321

klimtog321
Originally posted by debbiejo

Are you to judge how people find their spirituality?...Sounds kinda judgmental to me....

Is there only one way?...What is your way then........

No, your quote said "Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own" indicating that it is superior for that reason. But what I've tried to show is that isn't true since a person's spirituality is not arrived at without input from others in the form of books, teachers, etc. in the same way that a person's religion is arrived at by input from their books, teachers, etc. What's the difference?

klimtog321

debbiejo
Originally posted by klimtog321
No, your quote said "Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own" indicating that it is superior for that reason. But what I've tried to show is that isn't true since a person's spirituality is not arrived at without input from others in the form of books, teachers, etc. in the same way that a person's religion is arrived at by input from their books, teachers, etc. What's the difference?

The Bible alone, or the Koran also...Most religions frown down on any other seeking outside of ones faith...Only allowing to to read Christian resources...In fact it is a sin if your Catholic for you to attend a protest church...you have to have your sin forgiven by the Priest....There is nothing wrong with reading the Bible, Koran, or even a Satanic Bible, new age, Hindu, Buddhist, Native American writings...etc...It's broadening your view and making one knowledgeable......It doesn't mean that you throw all of them out...but you find spirituality by your individual connect to what god is...

Try this experiment...go to your church, lets say Baptist and tell your Pastor that you intend to pick up a Satanic Bible, see what his reactions is....or Even Buddhist, or New Age....Your pastor will convince you to go to the Christian book store where it is written with a slant on it...But if you really want to know then you go to the source of the writings..ie that religions itself...

Spiritual people only try to seek the truth, they don't want to be spoon fed...they are the seekers...and from what I've seen, they are the compassion ones compared to some select few in many churches...They are open to others, and not so ridged....now if it works for you to stay in a spoon fed religion, and you are not prejudice towards others...ie your going to hell now things, then good for you and all others...I just don't find that to be true in most organized religions.

The difference is Religion is docterine made, while Spirituality is a union with the "Source" of what is...ie god

sonnet
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
One way to tell delusion from truth is, truth is consistent from beginning to end. Delusion will change as it creates it's own delusion.
Well said, thank you.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo

Try this experiment...go to your church, lets say Baptist and tell your Pastor that you intend to pick up a Satanic Bible, see what his reactions is....or Even Buddhist, or New Age....Your pastor will convince you to go to the Christian book store where it is written with a slant on it...But if you really want to know then you go to the source of the writings..ie that religions itself...


Have done that. Read many real new age books because I wanted to know what it was all about. You know what, in all of those books many pages were full of sarcastic and downgrading remarks about christianity and Jesus. So how does this give you a balanced view of the specific belief. On the other hand I have read a book on Buddhism and it was ull of useful wise quotations. Things that can only enrich your life without breaking down other beliefs. If you truly belief in something and your spirit is at peace then you will not have the desire to searh for other possibilities- unless you take on beliefs that suit your lifestyle at that tyme and change it as often as the seasons change. You will never have peace in your life.

lil bitchiness

debbiejo
^ Did you tell your pastor you were reading these books???...Do it, and see what he says...then come back and tell us...Honestly......and yes I do agree that some authors look down on other languages...I guess it's human nature for some.....

I didn't read the types of books just because I wanted to change my life style, I'm just naturally curious and wanted to open up my little box of knowledge...

KPrince
Originally posted by debbiejo
OK...what I mean about self-denial is self-destruction is if you for instance, suppressing....suppressing anger = What?...suppressing fears = What?, suppressing your feelings = what?, suppressing love = what?...Living a lie = what?, hiding your feelings = what?....Living what someone else wants you to do instead of what you FEEL you should do = what?....Do you see what I mean...This is where the psychiatrist comes in and tries to help untie all your destructive self imposed denial......self denial = unhappy people, not living their "Truth", but instead trying to live up to what others want of them...Do you see what I mean?......Most people live their lives this way, makes for big money in the counselling business....of course this is not how we should live in this manor....Living in your truth lets loose all the "shoulds" and frees a person to be living in the moment, not the past and not fretting about the future...The present is just that a present...It's a gift to yourself.....It's that small voice that lets you know....the small voice that we are told not to listen to as children...the voice of parents telling their childern "don't feel like that...etc."...What a parent better might say is "Why do you feel this or that way", most however don't....No when we are adults...most don't even recognize the voice anymore...and it's the voice of Truth.

Most religions want to impose their truth on you...Of course many follow because they no longer know what truth is anymore...So, they're told what it is....and not all of it is correct.

Ok...so what happens when someone else's truth clashes with your own? Spirituality can translate to selfishness at times, I say this based on your argument. The individual is looking towards his/herself for the answers, regardless of the person next to them. What if that person's truth conflicts with what you perceive to be truth? This happens in religion as well, which is why I say that the two are not distinct.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sonnet
Well said, thank you.

Don't thank me, thank Buddha. I was paraphrasing from the Lotus Sutra. big grin

klimtog321

klimtog321

debbiejo

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by debbiejo
I think Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...have more of what I'm talking about...It's the Christianity and Muslim Religions that are lacking...Though I can't speak on the Muslim subject...Maybe Lil B. could enlighten us on that.

When it comes to Christianity...it's always tied to rituals..
some believe :

1 .You must believe in 3 in one god
2. You must believe in only 1 god, Jesus was only a savor for sins, not to be prayed to.
3. You must be baptized in "Jesus" name only
4. you must be baptized in "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."
5. You must have 1st, communions....Catholic thing.(and a sin to visit another church that's non Catholic.
6. You must take communion with wine and bread.(or grape juice)
7. You must ask a priest for forgiveness.
8. You must confess daily to god in Jesus name.
9. You must speak in tongues as proof of having the holy spirit.
10.Only Christians can hear the spirit, all others are not of god.
11.Anything written outside the bible is Satan temping them.
12.You must ONLY pray in Jesus name.
13.You must keep a certain day holy.
14.You must keep all the OT feast days to be accepted by god.
15...etc....

This to me sounds like more rituals....And these rituals are not new...they've been practiced under other Pagan names through out history as well...Persians, Babylonians, etc....Only the names have changed not the rituals..

Spirituality is only a connected to god, the source of all.....no rituals need to be followed is what I am getting at.

Exactly.

As for Islam =

1. You must believe in Allah and Allah alone.
2. You must believe Muhammad was the prophet of God.
3. You must pray 5 times a day
4. Anything written outside Quran is Satans work
5. Islam is the only right religion, all others are damned to Hell (same characteristics apply to Jews and Christians)
6. You must pray 5 times a day. salat
7. You must wear hijab if you are a woman.
8. You must fast on ramadan, unles you have health problems and/or are a pregnant woman.
9. Must pay pilgramige to Mecca is financialy able.
10. You must follow the Quran literaly and absolutely - it is the word of god.
11. Theocracy is the only right way of government.
12. Every non-muslim has been blinded by Allah, and should not be taken in partnership by any muslim.

Most important sentance in Islam -

As-salamu-alykum-wa-rahmatullaahi-wa-barakatuh!

It means - There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messanger.


etc...

klimtog321

debbiejo
Inquire within, rather than without asking...What part of my self do I wish to experience now in the face of this time...What aspect of being do I choose to call forth...Your own truth...The most difficult thing for people to do is to hear their own soul...Notice that so few people do that...They have forgotten the small voice.....But not all...It's that quiet voice....From the highest mountain it has been shouted, in the lowest pure whisper has been heard...Through the corridors of all human experience has this Truth been echoed....Love is the answer...unconditional love...Not rituals....It's your highest thought, your clearest word, your grandest feeling...Anything less is from another source.....You don't need religion to tell you what truth is...People who are seekers of spirituality, only want more of a connect with it....Truth is always there regardless......It's not found in churches, or rituals...It just "IS"....Even to the point of letting go of someone you love which makes is unconditional love, and not selfish love... smile

lil bitchiness

debbiejo
Besides since I believe we are all one in essence...Truth remains constant in all of us...We are all part of the creative process...always creating, that same spark of what ever it is.....IT IS IN US ALL....so why would it contradict it's self........As some quantum theories at our sub particles ie photons there is really nothing we are not apart of including the invisible....there are only denser dimensions seen at different vibrational levels....yet, we are still connected...so what flows through you also flows throw me.......I think it's COOL!!!!

That's why metaphysics works well with quantum physics.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by debbiejo
Besides since I believe we are all one in essence...

thumbsup same here!

debbiejo
cheers

klimtog321

klimtog321

klimtog321
Originally posted by debbiejo
cheers


Mind if I join you two? I'm feeling kind of lonely in here.
beer

debbiejo

klimtog321
Originally posted by debbiejo
....Don't look down and condemn those that differ from yours......It's a journey for one, though can be shared with many.....If you're happy, then stay there....I wouldn't want to change anyone for my pleasure...only to state my thinking.

OH yeah!!! Join the table and have a beer...plenty of room for opened minded people.

I'll take some Asti on Ice...........so nice.

Sorry, didn't think that any of my responses suggested that I looked down or condemned those that differ from me. Certainly not my intention. But if I may point it out, you're the one who started the thread with a quote that "looks down" on other belief systems than the authors who implicitly states his as superior to others.

Thanks for the seat. But I will have a Bailey's on ice.... also nice. stick out tongue

ImOne
Gives me pleasure and satisfaction to see people expressing their core in such a civil and respectful way. Imagine, if this alone were the way people find each other to be.

Sigh.

Beyond that I have no useful contribution to these type of thoughts. Interesting though.

debbiejo
Originally posted by klimtog321
Sorry, didn't think that any of my responses suggested that I looked down or condemned those that differ from me. Certainly not my intention. But if I may point it out, you're the one who started the thread with a quote that "looks down" on other belief systems than the authors who implicitly states his as superior to others.

Thanks for the seat. But I will have a Bailey's on ice.... also nice. stick out tongue What is your denomination?...Is it based on the Bible or Jesus is the only way.....Curious?

debbiejo
Originally posted by klimtog321
Sorry, didn't think that any of my responses suggested that I looked down or condemned those that differ from me. Certainly not my intention. But if I may point it out, you're the one who started the thread with a quote that "looks down" on other belief systems than the authors who implicitly states his as superior to others.

Thanks for the seat. But I will have a Bailey's on ice.... also nice. stick out tongue

Atheist?....curious on what you're belief is since we all professed ours,....what is yours.?

KPrince
Originally posted by klimtog321
No, your quote said "Religion encourages you to explore the thoughts of others and accept them as truths for your own self...Spirituality invites you to toss away the thoughts of others and come up with your own" indicating that it is superior for that reason. But what I've tried to show is that isn't true since a person's spirituality is not arrived at without input from others in the form of books, teachers, etc. in the same way that a person's religion is arrived at by input from their books, teachers, etc. What's the difference?

I agree. wink

KPrince
Spirituality= This term is defined quite differently by monotheists, polytheists, humanists, followers of new age, Native Americans, etc. A common meaning is "devotion to metaphysical matters, as opposed to worldly things." Another is "Activities which renew, lift up, comfort, heal and inspire both ourselves and those with whom we interact."

Just a question, is this an agreeable definition for spirituality?

debbiejo
Originally posted by KPrince
Spirituality= This term is defined quite differently by monotheists, polytheists, humanists, followers of new age, Native Americans, etc. A common meaning is "devotion to metaphysical matters, as opposed to worldly things." Another is "Activities which renew, lift up, comfort, heal and inspire both ourselves and those with whom we interact."

Just a question, is this an agreeable definition for spirituality?

Maybe...don't know about monotheists, or polytheists though.....I think it would be more like Native Americans, New Age, Buddhist, Hindu's (though don't know much about them)...though with humanism...I don't think they think much about spiritual matters...//Spirituality is just trying to connect with something higher...but through humanism, I don't think it would be called that.

lil bitchiness

KPrince
Originally posted by debbiejo
Maybe...don't know about monotheists, or polytheists though.....I think it would be more like Native Americans, New Age, Buddhist, Hindu's (though don't know much about them)...though with humanism...I don't think they think much about spiritual matters...//Spirituality is just trying to connect with something higher...but through humanism, I don't think it would be called that.

The reason I posted the definition was because it can be applied to religion as well. The first part of the definition is self-explanatory, but let's look at the second definition. Many who are religious see in their religion "Activities which renew, lift up, comfort, heal and inspire both ourselves and those with whom we interact." Just like Spiritualists, they may seek others to be as inspired as they are about their religion. A spiritualist, in this respect is no different, because they have a view of life that they would want others to be inspired to adopt as well. Which is why you took the ideas you first posted from a book, written by someone else who inspired you. Which brings me back to the point that religion and spiritualism are not that different from each other.

debbiejo
Spiritualist?....Never considered myself that....And the first book that lead me to many of my beliefs was a Quantum physics book.....I only found other such books that fit that view.....

Religion if you really look in to many of them does not at all equally being Spiritual.....People just used titles as "Religion"...Native Americans are more spiritual than religious...they know much that fits in with the invisible....Religion however, doesn't quite make the connection very well....They pray and pray, not understanding the principles of how things work, though I will have to say that with many in one accord there have been many "miracles", but such things are also done by non believers in Christs and with one person...It's the power and strength of attraction to what one believes.....

KPrince
Originally posted by debbiejo
Spiritualist?....Never considered myself that....And the first book that lead me to many of my beliefs was a Quantum physics book.....I only found other such books that fit that view.....

Religion if you really look in to many of them does not at all equally being Spiritual.....People just used titles as "Religion"...Native Americans are more spiritual than religious...they know much that fits in with the invisible....Religion however, doesn't quite make the connection very well....They pray and pray, not understanding the principles of how things work, though I will have to say that with many in one accord there have been many "miracles", but such things are also done by non believers in Christs and with one person...It's the power and strength of attraction to what one believes.....

I just used the word spiritualist for convenience. wink

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by KPrince
I just used the word spiritualist for convenience. wink

She can be picky, can't she? laughing

debbiejo
OK...call me what you will...cause there's not a name for me yet. big grin

Atlantis001
Spirituality is the only thing that can have any hope of having any meaning, it is about learning, about acquiring new perceptions, about viewing the world in new perspectives, and about trying to learn something new or envolve.

Religions do not need that you make a effort to learn something new, or to understand the world in another way, or that you find answers for your questions, they just require you to follow some believe.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Religions do not need that you make a effort to learn something new, or to understand the world in another way, or that you find answers for your questions, they just require you to follow some believe. Like rote learning, over and over and over again...then you got it down pat, and don't look else where....That' would undo all what you've been programmed with.....Then put it in action, by attracting more to your "correct" faith with intension's of saving the world, by condemning it....Sad thing is it's not true spirituality...That's why so many get disheartened..

Spirituality is beyond that, just as you said Atlantis, there are many roads, many paths, never stagnates, doesn't condemn and growth.

Storm
The distinction between spirituality and religion in general is not valid. The valid distinction is between spirituality and organized religion.

debbiejo
OK....that is what I really meant....organized religion.....The ones where you follow the rules and wait for your answers.

sonnet
Originally posted by debbiejo
^ Did you tell your pastor you were reading these books???...Do it, and see what he says...then come back and tell us...Honestly......and yes I do agree that some authors look down on other languages...I guess it's human nature for some.....

I didn't read the types of books just because I wanted to change my life style, I'm just naturally curious and wanted to open up my little box of knowledge...
I did tell my pastor and he was glad that I took the time to get knowledge about these issues because like me he also believes that we should know what is going on around us. Our lives does not begin and end in church on Sunday. I also read many books because I was curious but did not find anything that could even if I wanted to, replace my realtionship with God and my faith.

debbiejo
When you read book, do you go to the actual belief of that source, or go to the Christian book stores and read what they say, and do you do an in depth study on those source, because, you can't just read one book, you have to study to subject which leads to other fields of study to check it which will lead you to some science fields like the Quantum theories, vibrations medicines and therapies...experiments done along those lines

Atlantis001

Mindship
While I agree with the sentiment, I might word it differently.

Religion is not the problem. Religionism is.
Religion: truth-serving and ultimately self-transcending, because it is/should be rooted in spirituality, an actual experience of the numinous.
Religionism: ego-serving and ultimately self-contradicting, because it is rooted in the MGIBTYG mindset.

Religion is the system of the day-to-day relationship between Man/Woman and God. It is a means of "codifying" the experience of spirit. Religionism results when this system is abused.

debbiejo

Regret
The Mormon response to Spiritualism

Regret
I was considering this thread and made the following conclusions:

SPIRITUALITY TEACHES THAT WE ARE INDIVIDUALS,
BUT WE WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE OUR INDIVIDUALITY
TO THE WHOLE,
BECAUSE WE ARE NOT REALLY INDIVIDUALS,
NO ONE CAN HELP YOU
BECAUSE EVERYONE IS IN THE SAME BOAT YOU ARE.

RELIGION TEACHES THAT WE ARE INDIVIDUALS,
AND THAT IT IS COMPLETELY ACCEPTABLE TO
REQUEST AID FROM THOSE THAT CAN HELP.

fini
ummm what about religions that are much more spiritual?

you know as compared to other religions that scream hell and damnation all the time

debbiejo
Could you give an example of it? Which ones are you referring to.

fini
like hinduism, buddhism.........

debbiejo
OH, I see. But those are I guess considered religious, but not in the meaning that I meant the thread on. In fact what I was saying in the beginning is that there are some religious beliefs that don't cross to more spiritual ones. I do believe like yourself that there are many and I agree with those types, but then I should of specified better........What you are speaking of I wouldn't really compare it as religious, but I suppose they are......I don't believe that most would consider these types are religious, but more spiritual.......I may be wrong in my interpritation though.

Atlantis001

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