Kar Vastor vs. General Grevious

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Darth_Glentract
Two powerful non-Jedi/Sith users duke it out.

Darth Avis
Kar

The Creator
Vastor. Didn't he nearly beat Windu?

Ianus
I personally think Grievious has a chance if he's devious enough. Kar is vicious, but Mace outsmarted him and Grievious is a friggin' genius.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by The Creator
Vastor. Didn't he nearly beat Windu?

In a fist-fight. Mace said he would have taken him and several of the Akk Guards in a fist-fight. Thing is that GG would take Mace in a fist-fight too.

darthsith19
Dificult, this is. Only a few Jedi are strong enough to defeat Grievous. Mace is one of them. Kar beat Mace once, lost the second time. Overall I'd say Mace > Kar, but only just. But Mace > Grievous by more than only just. Then again, I guess it might be hard for Kar to block all four of Grievous's sabers. If it came down to an unarmed fight I'd say kar stands a good chance, even with Grievous's armor and all, since he's so strong.


I guess Kar, though. Mace did say his Force powers were that of Yoda's.

Darth Faunus
Hm. This would be arguably the most vicious PT brawl one could think of. It requires some thought.

Admiral Akbar
If Kar could punch through metal like mace did, And was arguably a better fist fighter than mace I believe he could win the fight.

Jack O'Neil
Mace's force powers are that of Yoda's? Then why was Mace struggling to hold by Sidious's lighting with a lightsaber and Yoda was doing better with his hands?

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
Mace's force powers are that of Yoda's? Then why was Mace struggling to hold by Sidious's lighting with a lightsaber and Yoda was doing better with his hands?

I'm sorry, but Mace was constantly reflecting lightning into Sidious' face, while it took Yoda several seconds before he could do get enough of a hold to reflect it back. Mace was doing better than Yoda at deflecting the lightning.

Darth Faunus
Well, I don't want to get into that. What Mace Windu did say, I belive was that Kar's Force powers would rival those of Yoda, and if he had been properly trained, he would be.

And Glentract, Mace didn't do much better than Yoda, who repelled lightning from point-blank range with his bare hands, while grasping the edge of a Senate pod with his toes. That's not to say that Mace doesn't rival Yoda in almost every combat-related characteristic, but that particular point was invalid.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Well, I don't want to get into that. What Mace Windu did say, I belive was that Kar's Force powers would rival those of Yoda, and if he had been properly trained, he would be.

And Glentract, Mace didn't do much better than Yoda, who repelled lightning from point-blank range with his bare hands, while grasping the edge of a Senate pod with his toes. That's not to say that Mace doesn't rival Yoda in almost every combat-related characteristic, but that particular point was invalid.

Thing is that Mace did in fact do better with his saber than Yoda did with his hands. I wasn't saying that Mace is better with hands, rather replying to how J O'N said Yoda did better.

I also personally believe that Kar rivaling Yoda in force powers was a bit of a hyperbole.

Darth Faunus
In raw power and potential? I doubt it. He was able to challenge Windu as an untrained combatant using only his untamed power and instincts. Not many people would be capable of that.

Jack O'Neil
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I'm sorry, but Mace was constantly reflecting lightning into Sidious' face, while it took Yoda several seconds before he could do get enough of a hold to reflect it back. Mace was doing better than Yoda at deflecting the lightning.
No. The lightsaber shot the lighting around while Yoda was building it up so he could defeat Sidious but he was too close.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
No. The lightsaber shot the lighting around while Yoda was building it up so he could defeat Sidious but he was too close.

Ummm...No. What do you think it was that melted Sidious' face? Now, prove that Yoda was building it up. I saw no indication of that.

darthsith19
Originally posted by Jack O'Neil
Mace's force powers are that of Yoda's? Then why was Mace struggling to hold by Sidious's lighting with a lightsaber and Yoda was doing better with his hands?
Mace said his (as in Kar's) Force powers are that of Yoda's. Fannus, was it if Kar had been fully trained? Vause if that's the case it sounds more believable.

Ianus
I think it's talking about raw Force powers. Kar is incredible in Force potential to do what he did while being untrained. I mean, Luke Skywalker was untrained and in ANh I could beat his ass.

Darth Faunus
Agreed. Had Kar been trained from birth, he would have been a force to be reckoned with.

chilled monkey
This would be a great fight. I'd probably say Grievous due to his tactical brilliance, skill and ability to analyse a foe's fighting style. It would be really close though.

General G
I say Grievous, Kar Vastor would have trouble blocking all 4 lightsabers.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by General G
I say Grievous, Kar Vastor would have trouble blocking all 4 lightsabers.

Think of it this way, Obi-wan blocked all four blades with one weapon, why can't Kar do it with two?

Ianus
Because Grievious attacked with all four blades at one point?

Darth_Glentract
Never more than two at a time actually, I figured that he was just thinking that blocking attacks from four different sabers would be hard, even if they weren't all at the same time.

Ianus
I seem to recall the initial attack being more than two, but I didn't really pay much attention to that part of the fight. I was more interested in how Obi-Wan dealt with Grievious. And mostly it was by being on edge and dodging attacks, while focusing on the hilts and Grievious' apparently unprotected hands.

DarthMaul9123
I honestly dont think gg is all what everybody says he is though if he's fought you before then he may be better because the computer part of his brain can read your moves and find out ways to parry them(hey janus i noticed your mein comp thing and it reminded me i have a holocaust test monday and uhh what does mein kompf mean)

Ianus
Mein Kampf = My Struggle.

Mein Comp - My computer.

Great Vengeance
Kar Vastor > Mace > General Grievous

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Kar Vastor > Mace > General Grievous

Kar defeated Mace unarmed, but this was Mace who was just learning to cope with Harun Kal's environment, giving Kar a large advantage. Mace said he would have defeated Kar if they had fought with weapons, but if they fought unarmed, no would have to die.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Kar defeated Mace unarmed, but this was Mace who was just learning to cope with Harun Kal's environment, giving Kar a large advantage. Mace said he would have defeated Kar if they had fought with weapons, but if they fought unarmed, no would have to die.

No, actually mace said he could never have defeated Kar with or without weapons even in the best shape of his life.

Darth_Glentract
What page? I will try to figure out the page for what I said.

Darth_Glentract
On page 254, Mace said that if he had defeated Kar, he would have been killed fighting the Akk Guards. Also, look the end. After Mace has a whole in him from fighting Depa, he takes Kar out in just a few seconds when they are armed.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
What page? I will try to figure out the page for what I said.

I dont have the book on hand so I cant give you the page number, but I think he said it right after the fight when he, Depa and that other guy were talking.

Great Vengeance
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
On page 254, Mace said that if he had defeated Kar, he would have been killed fighting the Akk Guards. Also, look the end. After Mace has a whole in him from fighting Depa, he takes Kar out in just a few seconds when they are armed.

Yes he says IF he managed to somehow defeat Kar, the guards would take him out anyways hence why he wanted Kar to beat him up so that Kar would forget the grudge between them and spare their lives. And that shield thing was a cheap shot, Kar never expected Mace would try to kill him thus he was completely caught off-guard. Ill give in that Mace is alot smarter than Kar..

Darth_Glentract
I didn't see him say that when he was talking later in the book.

Anyway, cheap or not, it counts. Technically, all kills are cheap shots since they only take one hit.

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