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Alright Im a big SW fan but haven't read the books or much of the lore and whatnot. For those that have played KOTOR...I've been wondering about something and have not been able to get it out of my head, so I was wondering if some of you deep readers into lore and just the galaxy in general, in SW would know...

You know how in the KOTOR games there are those 3 people that seem to be a bit more nuetralistic, like how Kreia says that to truely learn about the force you must look at both points of view, both aspecs, Light and Dark, and how she pretty much wants to destroy the force.

Then there is Nihilus, feeds on the force to sustain himself, he is pretty much bent on self-preservation above all else even if it means wiping all life from the galaxy to feed his hunger, and that he actually cares very little for the codes and ways of both the light side and the dark side...

Then Revan, a bit harder to go into unless you theorize some things+future events but he is doing many things secretively for a reason not fully known yet, much of this is explained in KOTOR 2 by various characters, most is right there, while other things you have to read between the lines to get, though anyone who has played it fully through probably has an idea of what im talking about with him.

Anyway...sorry for the rambling but basically what I want to know is, you know how they have the major classifications, Jedi/Sith, then there are some things that im sketchy on like some kind of smaller classifications within the Sith such as a difference between Darth Maul and Sidious and whatnot. I was wondering if anyone knew if there is some kind of classification for these people that I mentioned above, Kreia, Revan, Nihilus, etc...

Thnx for the help and insight.

no problem

So anyone know if there is a specific name for these kinds of "Jedi"?

Grey Jedi?

I wouldnt say there were different groups - more different ideals and sects in the two groups - or the wide space in the middle.

Like Darth Sion's guys all seem to be stealthy-crackhead types.
Cant remember hardly anything about Nilihus or what not.
And meh..ive lost interest.

Alrighty, had a feeling their wouldn't be much of a true "label" for these ideals but hopefully someone who see's this thread may know, if there is one that is.

Well lets see...

Nihilus - This guy is a Sith all the way.

Kreia - I am lost on this one.

Revan - Is pretty unique in the SW universe in the fact that he resisted the Dark Side to an extent while mastering it for his own use. He to me was not evil just more or less bitter and dissulisioned with the Jedi for their lack of action. I believe Revan was a realist and looked beyond the present and to the future when he invaded the Republic. His goal was to make the Republic strong under his rule so that it would be able to resist these supposed "leftover" Sith that Kreia mentions. Now as for Revan actually falling to the Dark Side that in itself is in question. Seeing as how Kreia claims that Revan was always true to himself. Take Anakin for instance. When he fell the Dark Side he believed that was he was doing was right. Kreia claims that Revan never truly fell becuase unlike the normal Sith he knew what he was doing was wrong, " Revan was always true to himself no matter what face he wore". As for myself I really do not know if Kreia is correct in this observation or not since their are to many unknown factors.

There were groups like the Jensaari and the Matukai.

Think of it this way, just because people are all humans doesn't mena they believe or act the same, yet they are all still humans.

true, still wish I could refer to those people in 1 way lol. And Nihilus wasn't sith all the way, though he did have a decent amount of sith ideals/etc. Nihilus is my favorite guy, just which I could get more insight into the lore with them...why can't they make a kotor movie! : p

The need to make a 5 page biography on every major KOTOR character in my opinion.

agreed

Well, there are other groups, but not in the way you're describing... Those are just different types of the same group. I mean, take Qui-Gon Jinn, for example. Obviously, his views differed from that of all the Jedi on the council, but he was still a Jedi, was he not?

Anyway, here are some other types of Jedi, although they don't really apply to the context your question was asked in:

Grey Jedi - These Jedi still follow the light side of the Force, and do good things, but let their emotions drive their actions. They will often do things unconventional, or things that may be considered "dark" to accomplish their means. For example, Jolee Bindo smuggled food to innocents - this was illegal and frowned upon by the Jedi council, but still a good thing. He also encouraged Jedi to love. Kyle Katarn is another example, who followed the light side, but used the Dark side of the Force to accomplish his goals.

Dark Jedi - These are relatively evil Jedi who use the Dark Side of the Force and have fallen to the Dark Side, bu who haven't pledged themselves (and thus aren't Sith) to the Sith teachings or practices.

Then there's the Rakata, Dark Side users, but certainly not Sith...the Rakata functioned as a civilization based around the Dark Side, even using it to create unimaginable technologies far ahead of their time.

isnt there a group called the sultran that live in peace with the jedi. their just a bunch of force users who arnt jedi or sith. im not sure much else about them but i remember reading about them a while back.

Originally posted by NihilusDark
And Nihilus wasn't sith all the way

Because sucking out people's souls and making everyone his mind slave isn't Sith enough, right?

Grey Jedi aren't a group. They don't or at least shouldn't exist. Using your emotions to drive your actions and your powers means evil in George Lucas' world.

Dark Jedi are another group (sighs in exasperation)

Kreia was not in the middle, she is an out and out Dark Sider.

And as BC says, Grey Jedi are a ridiculous concept that have no place in the SW Galaxy.

Dark Jedi...arent neccessarily bad/evil...they simply dont follow either the Jedi or Sith laws...So you could have a dark jedi who only helps people when they see fit....

Originally posted by Decay
isnt there a group called the sultran that live in peace with the jedi. their just a bunch of force users who arnt jedi or sith. im not sure much else about them but i remember reading about them a while back.
You shouldn't read SuperShadow.com. nono
Sutrans only appear on his site and nowhere else. Trust me.. I looked it up.

If he is a Dark Jedi, he is on the Dark Side, therefore he is evil; there is no escaping that.

Dark Jedi = a Jedi following (usually) good intentions that lead the Jedi to the dark side of the force because of their emotions and so forth, but one who has not embraced the Sith Teachings.

I never said Nihilus wasn't evil but he does not believe 100% in the Sith ideals, this was said in-game. Therefore Sith isn't a fitting classification for Nihilus.

It never said that in-game, it just said he cared nothing for any teachings that weren't of the hunger techinque. He only cared about his unending starvation, and nothing else. That makes him propably the most Dark-sided character we'll ever see in Star Wars.

You know what i mean Koroni lol. He's dark but he's not sith, if you catch my drift.

it really isnt true that just because you are a drk jedi, you are evil. You choose not to follow any codes.

No, that's nonsense. If you are on the Dark Side you are evil. The Dark Side IS evil, it makes you evil, if you follow it you are evil. That's just a Star Wars fact.

Yeah, all that bullshit about, "just 'cause your Dark Side, doesn't mean your a bad guy," just pisses me off.

It's feasible but there's a flaw. You become so trusting of the abilities the Dark Side as granted you that become over-confident. In the end you end up going bad because of those powers, not to mention the DS itself will corrupt you.

The Sith were pure DS, but the first Outcast Jedi combined their powers to the primitive Sith Magic, and over like 10 000 years, they evolved, both racially and Forcibly. They're quite undoubtedly the superior of all DS users.

Yeah. As other people said, dark side = evil. It's just the Sith is a certain TYPE of evil, who follow rules and regulations and a code. Dark Jedi don't follow the Sith code, but their own code, while still being evil.

since there are dark jedi, which are jedi who turn dark but aint sith yet, are there Enlightened Sith, who would come to their senses, like vader, and turn good?

what if you can control the dark side but use the powers for good?

Originally posted by EnlightenedSith
what if you can control the dark side but use the powers for good?
Revan accomplished this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan accomplished this.
He didn't control the dark side. He had to combine it in a ying yang sort of way.

Originally posted by Vensai
He didn't control the dark side. He had to combine it in a ying yang sort of way.
That feat required great degree of control and command over both aspects of the Force.

However, it was more than the Jedi's raw power that interested Scourge. Unlike all the instructors at the Academy, or even Nyriss herself, Revan had experienced both the light and dark sides of the Force. He had a unique perspective on its strengths and weaknesses, and Scourge was eager to learn from his experience. (SWTOR: Revan)

He understood that the two sides of the Force were more closely intertwined with each other than either the Jedi or the Sith would ever admit. He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength. (SWTOR: Revan)

During combat situation:

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form. (SWTOR: Revan)

I wonder, what would have happened if Revan had actually focused and/or channeled that power.

Three centuries ago, Revan wielded the dual philosophies of Sith passion and Jedi tranquility to conquer his enemies; he even nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor. (SWTOR: Encylopedia)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That feat required great degree of control and command over both aspects of the Force.

However, it was more than the Jedi's raw power that interested Scourge. Unlike all the instructors at the Academy, or even Nyriss herself, Revan had experienced both the light and dark sides of the Force. He had a unique perspective on its strengths and weaknesses, and Scourge was eager to learn from his experience. (SWTOR: Revan)

He understood that the two sides of the Force were more closely intertwined with each other than either the Jedi or the Sith would ever admit. He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength. (SWTOR: Revan)

During combat situation:

Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form. (SWTOR: Revan)

I wonder, what would have happened if Revan had actually focused and/or channeled that power.

Three centuries ago, Revan wielded the dual philosophies of Sith passion and Jedi tranquility to conquer his enemies; he even nearly assassinated the Sith Emperor. (SWTOR: Encylopedia)
Interesting. But it would be more specific to say Revan almost assassinated the Emperor with Meetra and Scourge. He couldn't have done it by himself.
That said, I suspect his use of the dark side had drawbacks, such as not foreseeing the betrayal of Scourge.

Originally posted by Vensai
That said, I suspect his use of the dark side had drawbacks, such as not foreseeing the betrayal of Scourge.
It is possible that Revan's senses and foresight abilities got clouded to a certain degree on Dromund Kaas (Sith Emperor might be indirectly responsible since his influence was on the entire planet).

"The dark side obscures my sight. We are walking into a time and place of shadows, and I cannot promise you that we will ever come out." (Revan to Scourge)

Though no character is infallible.

Originally posted by EnlightenedSith
since there are dark jedi, which are jedi who turn dark but aint sith yet, are there Enlightened Sith, who would come to their senses, like vader, and turn good?

Yes, and they generally become Jedi. There's no general term for them to my knowledge, but 'Enlightened Sith' isn't a bad descriptor.


In The Old Republic era, one of the members of the Sith Council was talked into abandoning his Sith ways and turning to the light.