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Darth Vader as of ROTS, as he is presented during his slaughter of the Separatist leaders, against Mace Windu as of AOTC, as his presented during the Battle of Geonosis.

Mace. If Vader was more level-headed, he might stand a chance, but he is nearly insane at this point.

Agreed.

Good point Glentract.

I think that Vader has the raw power to defeat Mace, this is before Mace has any war experience and after Anakin has alot. Mace probably wouldn't be able to keep up with Vaders constant offense.

War experience doesn't mean Mace wasn't strong. He helped prefect a millenia old form at the age of 13. He was a prodigy, and by AOTC he was a monster.

I doubt three years of the Clone Wars really made that much of a difference for the creator and sole master of Vaapad who was a jedi master well before Anakin was even born. Considering he was less active than say, Obi-Wan and Anakin and much older (meaning his style is already pretty well solidified and refined) it would be ridiculous to say he grew that much in power and that if he hadn't, Anakin would beat him.

Certainly unfounded, too.

I know, I know, but Anakin was a prodigy also, even more so than Windu, plus he has valuble war experience. It wouldn't be an easy fight, not by a long shot, but Windu would eventully be beaten.

How was Anakin a prodigy? All he was recognized for was being the "Chosen One", I don't remember anyone commending him in lightsaber skill or Force mastery.

Mace did finish the mental aspect of Vapaad during the Clone Wars, but seriously, Anakin is nearly insane. Mace is a fair bit more powerful than Anakin. Remember that Mace didn't fight very much during the Clone Wars too, yet I doubt you would say ROTS Mace would have much difficulty.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I know, I know, but Anakin was a prodigy also, even more so than Windu, plus he has valuble war experience. It wouldn't be an easy fight, not by a long shot, but Windu would eventully be beaten.

Mace made Vaapad when he was in his teens.

Anakin was an ace pilot at ten.

Big difference in skill focus.

To be on the council at your age is unheard of.- Obi Wan (didn't put quotes because I'm not sure if it's the exact wording).

Anakin is definately gifted, there is little to argue against it.

OMG... Sidious PLACED him on the council. It has NOTHING to do with merit.

And Mace Windu EARNED a spot on the council before Obi-Wan or Anakin did.

Yes, but he definately had enough power to be on the Council, just not the whole...Jedi thing.

Anakin=shit

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yes, but he definately had enough power to be on the Council, just not the whole...Jedi thing.

And TPM Obi-Wan had the power to be on the council. He didn't have the wisdom nor the experience, thus he didn't qualify. Anakin doesn't qualify and this has **** all to do with the battle, so why bother with it?

Mace > Vader, period.

I will disagree, but argue no more, probably.

When you get some evidence to support your "opinion", do let me know.

Anakin destroyed Cin Drallig and after leading an attack on the Jedi Temple, he came out unphased, not even hurt (and yes, he did fight).

He defeated Cin Drallig while Cin was being fired upon by hundreds of Clone Troopers.

Where does it say that?

Dark Nest Two, The Unseen Queen.

I'll look into it.

I made a ROTS Anakin vs. TPM Mace thread and most people said Mace. And AOTC Mace is even stronger than TPM Mace while Vader only gets weaker. So Mace. Anyway, Mace pwnd Jango and it took both Vader and Sidious combined to kill him. Vader lost to Obi-Wan. Mace has this.

I agree with the outcomes, but as to the above, how does Anakin get weaker during the movie? He gets more aggressive, brutal, and darker. But weaker?

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I agree with the outcomes, but as to the above, how does Anakin get weaker during the movie? He gets more aggressive, brutal, and darker. But weaker?

Actually Nick Gillard said that only his Dark Side made Anakin what Gillard calls a "9" (or level 9 ?) in terms of duelling. So he got stronger during the movie. Still Obi-Wan defeated him because Anakin never mastered the mental aspects of fighting and Mace Windu (even an AotC Mace) would pretty much school ROTS Anakin / pre suit Vader.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Mace. If Vader was more level-headed, he might stand a chance, but he is nearly insane at this point.
agreed also

Whats up with that level system that Gillard uses. Doesn't it put Yoda below Anakin and Obi-wan or something?

No it puts Yoda, Anakin, Dooku and Mace on the same level and Obi-Wan one level below. shit

Yeah, well.. That's because Obi Wan is an overrated lucky beeitch! smile1

Just like Mace Windu beeitch!

This is getting rather irksome. If you want to start bashing characters, please do it elsewhere.

...He started it...Ok, I'll stop.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Just like Mace Windu beeitch!

Hes so overrated, hes just the head member of the high council....
and defeating Sidious is no big feat.... so overrated.

I don't know. That match up is kind of hard to decide....

Originally posted by mace=badass
Hes so overrated, hes just the head member of the high council....
and defeating Sidious is no big feat.... so overrated.

Funny you say that considering your Username.

Well its true......... he was those things, Mace is just my favorite character.........but that won't interfere with me being truthfull in a thread about him.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Funny you say that considering your Username.
True, ha ha, that usualy denotes fanboys, like myself, in some respects. At least he is able to admit that Mace does have his weaknesses.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
I agree with the outcomes, but as to the above, how does Anakin get weaker during the movie? He gets more aggressive, brutal, and darker. But weaker?
He becomes ovconmfident, less level headed, more sloppy. That's why he loses to Obi-Wan.


Yeah, but that's Nick Gillard. Hayden said the only reason Vader lsotm to Obi-Wan was because ot the Dark Side. I can't remember it word for word, you check it out. I'm pretty sure it was in The Chosen One documentery.

Since when has Hayden been an expert on Star Wars lore?

He gets paid to swing around a lightsaber, kill droids, and bed Natalie Portman, that's it.

Sounds like the life to me.

Originally posted by Ianus
Mace made Vaapad when he was in his teens.

Anakin was an ace pilot at ten.

Big difference in skill focus.
Anakin still had Jedi abilities at ten though. He had the heightened reactions of a Jedi, and also, when the coupling on his pod-racer detatched, and he reached for it with that tool, I suspect that he actually used the Force (albeit unconsciously) to being the coupling to the tool.
Mace was able to beat Palpatine, but Anakin was twice as powerfull as Palpatine, so I suspect he would have overpowered Mace.

Ah, Anakin is not "twice as powerful" as Sidious. He has roughly double the Force potential. He never realized his potential, and considering that Obi-Wan matched him in lightsaber combat and Force power (During their ROTS Force shoving match) I see no reason why Mace would be outclassed by Anakin Skywalker, especially since Mace is specifically a lightsabaer prodigy, while Anakin was noted for his flying and wasn't even considered one of the best in the order.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Since when has Hayden been an expert on Star Wars lore?

He gets paid to swing around a lightsaber, kill droids, and bed Natalie Portman, that's it.
So you think Nick Gillard knows more about Anakin than Hayden?

He should. He created his lightsaber style and choreographed his fights.

Originally posted by mace=badass
Hes so overrated, hes just the head member of the high council....
and defeating Sidious is no big feat.... so overrated.

Guys, he was being sarcastic...

I don't get what all the Mace hype is about, everyone says he's a badass, why? He has that one "This party's over" line in Ep II, he has a purple lightsaber (woo, thats badass), and he's SLJ so he must be that same badass guy from Pulp Fiction. In Ep 1 he is like oatmeal, the most bland bland thing you'd ever seen. He is a reserved Jedi Master, who always does what's right, not some badass from the street.

Anyway, this is when Mace has no war experience, and Anakin has a lot.

I think Anakin would be more controlled against Windu then he was against Obi Wan. He has more of a personal hate for Obi Wan while Mace it is not nearly as much on a personal level. I believe he has the skills to take out Mace, it is weather he can use them or not is the question.

He has more personal hate for Windu then for Obi. Obi was his master en friend. Anakin didn't like Windu much, because he never trusted him.

Yes, but when Anakin realized that his best friend, Obi Wan, had betrayed him, he hated him even more.

Jim- I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that war experience will help but Mace was just more powerfull. Not to mention he was a jedi MASTER(just noting that he wasn't a jedi for only 30 years....about 54-58...right?) for about 30 years while Anakin was only a jedi padawan for about 13 and a knight for just a few days.
I say Mace.

To put in simply, Mace was on the Jedi Council before Anakin was born. he has a hell of a lot more experience, and is truly a dueling prodigy. He created his own form during his teens, meaning that he needed to have delved deeply into both Djem So and Ataru, and known everything about Juyo by the time he was twenty. He was knighted at an age so far unheard of, and was the youngest person that we know of to ascend to the Council by way of election. He is unrivaled in combat ability, with the exception of Yoda. Even by AOTC, he was a master of Vaapad. Meaning that the war didn't improve his abilities as much as it did those of Anakin or Obi-Wan. He improved, certainly. But not by a tremendous amount.

So while this may be a closer duel, I say it goes to Mace.

It's not just that Anakin has war experience, he is tested and is into the groove of fighting, whereas Mace in TPM has been sitting in the Jedi Meditation rooms practicing his saber skills every now and then. Also during Mace's training, it was standard training and he did well. Anakin was braught up in a time of war and needed to be on the top of his game during the Clone Wars. He has more raw potential then Mace (must not say the M word) and has about the same amount of fighting experience (Mace is older and has been on missions and such, but Anakin is fighting every day).

It doesn't matter. Even after three years of war, Anakin, while being extremely deadly in his Force of choice, had yet to become a master. mace Windu had arguably the same level of Djem So proficiency when he was in his early-mid teens. He hasn't gotten rusty, he hasn't lost his touch. Windu will sufficiently defeat Vader, albeit with some trouble.

Agreed. I like how everyone wants to argue Mace Windu down to nothing when it comes to their favorite character.

Alright, guys, Mace can beat Anakin. If they fought, Anakin would be struggling to keep up. True, rage did help Anakin beat Dooku. But at this point in the story, there's too much rage in Anakin. Too much for him to contain. Mace would've had complete conscience of his actions. Anakin could beat Palpatine, but only when his rage is at a low amount.
And like I said, at this point, it's way too high.

Originally posted by Ianus

Yeah, but Hayden is Anakin.
Agreed. I like how everyone wants to argue Mace Windu down to nothing when it comes to their favorite character.
*cough* Dooku *cough*