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These are the most powerful characters in the DC and Marvel multiverse.

1. the One Above All {true god of the Marvel multiverse}
the Presence {true god of the DC multiverse}
the Great Evil Beast {God's Polar Opposite; The Darkness to the Light}

2. the White Phoenix of the Crown {is the nexus of all psionic energy which does, has, and ever wil exist in all realities of the multiverse}
Michael {Possesses the Presence's demiurgic power. The power to create. He lays down the foundations for Lucifer} - DC
Lucifer Morningstar {Possesses the Presence's will power. He uses this to shape the demiurgic matter laid down by Michael into the DC universe
(which later became a multiverse} - DC
Elaine Belloc {Michael's daughter, possessing all of Michael's demiurgic power} - DC

3. Living Tribunal {the judge of the marvel multiverse, can destroy universes and affect/pass judgement on anyone under the multiverse
save the One Above All} - Marvel
Spectre/Logoz {the living embodiment of God's Wrath/Spirit of Redemption. He more or less knows all, sees all, and his power is
almost without limit} - DC
the Saint of Killers {he is the divine agent/angel of death, who killed the devil once and a weakened Voice} - DC

4. the Source {The all-knowing lifepower of the New Gods, an aspect of the Presence} - DC
the Word {an incarnation of the first word spoken by the Presence in the Beginning} - DC
the Voice {The entity who has been referred to as the Voice is actually the Voice of the Presence, the Voice that speaks in everything} - DC
the Infinites {"abstract beings"_of incalculable power._ While_manifesting in_our dimension, one of their hands was as big as_Eternity himself} - Marvel
True Beyonders {The Beyonders are a race of immensely powerful entities that reside in the beyond realm, just a tiny fraction of their power gave the Molecule
man all of his abilities and the "Beyonder" all of his near omnipotence} - Marvel
the Makers {five cosmic beings that created the Microverse. They took an existing universe and remade its stars, planets, and galaxies.

5. Nemesis/the Infinity Being {an entity that exists when all seven Infinity Gems are combined} - Marvel
(Infinity Gauntlet) - six gems plus one that control all aspects of Time, Space, Power, Reality, the Mind and the Soul/and the obscure seventh, the Ego gem}
the Endless {their domain spans over the entire DC multiverse and have total control over the seven concepts(Dreams-Death-Despair-Destiny-Delirium-
Desire-Destruction)they are practically omnipotent} - DC

6. the Brothers {the Brothers are the sum total of everything in the Marvel multiverse and DC multiverse} - these are two entities -
that could destroy at-least a mutiverse}

7. Eternity {the embodiment and collective consciousness of all living things in the universe, ability to manipulate time, space, matter,
energy and magic for virtually any purpose, the supreme time being of the universe
Death {embodies the principal of mortality, a mystical essence of the universe, the absence of Life} - Marvel
Infinity {she is the supreme space being of the universe, an intelligence encompassing the very concept of infinity and space,
as such her power is on par with Eternity Death and Oblivion} - Marvel
Oblivion {personification of non-existence, the great void: the absence of space: nothingness} - Marvel
Entropy {incredible godlike powers superior to that of most cosmic beings and on par with such beings as Eternity
his power allows him to do virtually anything and everything} - Marvel
the Rot {It is humongous, empty and growing, continuing to expand, taking up whole portions of space It has proven so powerful,
or so abstract, that neither Death, nor Eternity can affect it} - Marvel

8. Master Order {the universal abstract that embodies orderliness and uniformity} - Marvel
Lord Chaos {the universal abstract that embodies disorder, randomness and formlessness} - Marvel
Mistress Love {the embodiment of love, with the ability to make others feel love to whatever degree she wishes, one of the few universal constants,
immune to the affects of aging and disease and cannot be harmed by any conventional means} - Marvel
Master Hate {the embodiment of hate, possesses the incredibly dangerous ability to make anybody feel any level of hate, from a resentment, to a desire to commit
mass genocide, one of the very few universal constants, immune to the affects of aging and disease, and cannot be harmed by conventional means} - Marvel
Eulogy {Apparently the cosmic force that is responsible for ending things and giving a eulogy of sorts, He convinced Captain Marvel
to succumb to his ending after persuading the hero that no one would ever need him} - Marvel
Expediency {Apparently the embodiment of and/or cause of all quick and expedient solutions, an incredibly powerful and at least
semi-essential force in the universe, with the ability to make anything happen expediently} - Marvel
Epiphany {she has vast cosmic power since she is the offspring of Eternity, who is the embodiment of the very universe} - Marvel
Enmity {the abstract concept entity representing opposition and hostility} - Marvel
Empathy {the cosmic manifestation of understanding emotions/feelings on a universal scale} - Marvel
the Anomaly {the embodiment of all things that are like no other things. It obeys no physical laws and is the exception to all rules} - Marvel
Origin - {apparently has the power to create super-beings. It does this by taking existing beings, causing the events which give them their powers,
and places the ideas for names and costumes into their heads} - Marvel
the Un-Being - is apparently able to alter reality retroactively. It has a hatred for all beings of power and uses its abilities to undo their origins,
preventing them from having ever existed - Marvel

7. the Anti-Life Equation {disintegrated everything in a 200 square light year area =(1,180,000,000,000,000 miles of space)just by being born.} - DC
Celestials {a star-faring race possessing untold power} - Marvel
1.One Above All 7.Gammenon the Gatherer
2.Exitar the Exterminator 8.Eson the Searcher
3.Dreaming Celestial 9.Nezarr the Calculator
4.Arishem the Judge 10.Oneg the Prober
5.Hargen the Measurer 11.Ziran the Tester
6.Jemiah the Analyzer 12.Tefral the Surveyor
Franklin Richards {possesses vast psionic powers. Telepathy, immensely powerful telekinesis, psionic blasts of great destructive power, the ability to
travel through time, and the ability to call on his past and future selves to manifest themselves. He can also presumably teleport over great distances,
reconfigure reality to match his desires, to a virtually unlimited degree} - Marvel

8. Galactus {the Devourer of Worlds, the major-most driving force for balance in the universe, able to use the vast energies
within him for an incalculable number of effects} - Marvel
In-Betweener {a cosmic entity who exists as the synthesis of the major concepts of the universe:
life and death, reality and illusion, good and evil, logic and emotion, existence and nothingness, god and man} - Marvel
The Watchers {the race of universal chroniclers who posses power on a galactic/universal scale, but have sworn
non-interference in universal matters
Epoch {the offspring of Eon and guardian of the celestial axis around which the universe swirls and dances, as an intermediary
of the supreme forces of the universe, epoch has been given the responsibility to insure that conditions in the cosmos remain amenable to life} - Marvel
The Stranger {a being composed of the billions of beings who inhabited Gigantus, a planet that exploded into a sun,
performs experiments of all varieties on a multitude of life forms (especially human) on his laboratory world} - Marvel

9. Chronos {god of time, the immensity of the power of time is such that there have been those who have asserted that time was the first to exist.
for they could not imagine any beginnings without him, apparently reasoning that whatever happens must happen according to time,
and that nothing could ever take place as an event, without the acquiescence of this god} - DC
the Anti-Monitor {(ruler of the antimatter universe) unleashed a wave of antimatter into the positive-matter universes, wiping out entire planes of existence} - DC
Hyperstorm {his father(Franklin Richards)had the power to manipulate reality itself, and his mother (Rachel Summers) was herself the daughter of the X-Men's
Cyclops & Jean Grey, Jonathan Richards has the ability to tap into hyperspace, the limitless source of all energy in this plane of reality} - Marvel
The Time Trapper powers consist of vast control over time itself; accordingly, his traditional lair has been located at the end of time} - DC
Dr Manhattan {a blue-skinned superhuman who can do anything because he has a quantum consciousness that reveals time, space, and matter
as they truly are--in atomic detail} - DC

10. Cosmic Cubes {a cube-shaped matrix that holds vast energies that are responsive to the wills of sentient beings,
a sentient being can use a Cosmic Cube to manifest his thoughts as reality, and thus to accomplish virtually anything he or she desires} - Marvel
The Vishanti {the three supreme-most mystical forces throughout the known multiverse, existing in their own dimension as one} - Marvel
1.Oshtur
2.Agamotto
3.Hoggoth

The Logos and The Word are the same being dude, You have them split up, put them together and at #2. ANYTHING The Word says has to happen, anything he thinks has to happen.

Also Imperiex Prime should on here and be near the top, he has destroyed everything in the DCU many times over.

Saint Of Killers isn't in the mainstream DC Universe, but a seperate pocket Universe. The God in his dimension isn't the same one from DC; his power is questionable in the real DC Universe.

Shouldnt Anti-Monitor be much higher on that list..

uh kevdude the Logoz and the Word are not at all related, the Word is described as an older "brother" of the Spectre, this red-hooded heavenly avenger is an incarnation of the first word spoken by God in the beginning. He was summoned by the Phantom Stranger to stop the then-omnipotent Swamp Thing re-creating the Earth. The Word destroyed the entire Parliament of Trees after being destroyed by Tefe'. It seems probable that the Word cannot be completely destroyed, and the Spectre has since implied that the Word may still be alive.

note..
Hal Jordan was a Green Lantern when he was alive, but then went crazy, turned into Parallax, and tried to remake the universe to his own specifications. After a while, he ended up sacrificing himself to save the earth during the Final Night event (when the sun was almost extinguished.) After that, he got a chance at redemption and took up the mantle of the Spectre

and...
The Spectre is the living embodiment of God's Wrath The Spectre is good because it's wrath is tempered by the human soul that guides it. Left unchecked, The Wrath would go around slaughtering people for jaywalking. Recently, DeMatteis(Spectre writer) has revealed that The Spectre is actually a being called The Logoz, and can be more of a Spirit of Redemption. The idea is that a part of The Spectre must suffer for the humans it redeems.

one more note...
this is how the Word became:
At the moment of creation the entity known as The Voice, as well as the two eternal forces known as Order and Chaos also come into existence. Some evidence even indicate that the Source and the Voice are but two aspects of the same. Shortly after the creation of the universe, when the Voice first opens its mouth it creates the Word. Before it is ever spoken aloud, the word was traced by the hand of the Endless known as Destiny on the first pages of his book.

as for Imperiex Prime:
The actual abilities of Imperiex Prime have not been documented, but they are thought to be vast. At one point it reduced Doomsday to a glowing skeleton with a single energy blast. It mainly projects its will via the Probes. As previously noted Imperiex was an energy being and required a physical shell to give it material form. A consequence of this was that while the shell could be shattered the energy that made up Imperiex could only be dissipated and not actually destroyed.

doesn't sound to tuff'

ey kevdude - pardon the typo, they are brothers apparently (the Logoz and the Word)

yo roughrider: your right he is from the Vertigo universe but I believe they share the all powerful God like other companies, if this is true, this would suggest the Saint of Killers being directly ordered by God is as unstopable as Spectre/Living Tribunal ect...

Hegemon875: Anti-Monitor is no joke and he's already in the 9th spot above heavy weights the likes of Hyperstorm the Trapper and Manhattan, but I couldn't put him any higher, he's beneath Chronos because the Titan god of time controls it better than any of them(Time). Control over time is greatest power.

"me and time against any two"
Belthazar Gracian

Where does Korvac rate on this?

even tho it was done for the sake of the crossover, on face value one could assume that one of the "brothers" is ToAA, and the presence.

cuz when you think about it, everything, means "everything" so if they both are the total sum of evrything in thier respective univverses, its not hard to make that leap to see them as the "god" of where they came from,......dont get me wrong i know it isnt but im just saying

The Spectre itself would rank above Micheal and Lucifer as well, as he's a piece of the divine being itself.. However, confrontations between the two would seem to point Micheal as being mightier of the two, as he's beat Spectre a couple of times... you must remember, that Micheal was powered by the divine being, while Spectre was not.. this is usually the Spectre Force itself, punishing the HOST of the Spectre, for daring to go against it. You have to be able to seperate the two.. the Spectre itself, is pretty unlimited. The Host, however, is not, and on numerous occasions, must ultimately give in to the will of God, whether it be through Spectre's power, or another divine manifestation of power. In Corrigan and Hal's series, both for example, ultimately when they let the Spectre itself take over.. it accomplished whatever it wanted to. Even when they couldn't.

Originally posted by manjaro
even tho it was done for the sake of the crossover, on face value one could assume that one of the "brothers" is ToAA, and the presence.

cuz when you think about it, everything, means "everything" so if they both are the total sum of evrything in thier respective univverses, its not hard to make that leap to see them as the "god" of where they came from,......dont get me wrong i know it isnt but im just saying
That's the way it was originally planned but they decided against it.

Originally posted by Ex11B
Where does Korvac rate on this?

uhm Korvac has near infinite power but these subjects are nearer.
I researched this thoroughly, according to all that's been in the twin multiverses, these are the ones that have shown time and again that they are everlasting.

The Vishanti are above cosmic cubes--


The True Beyonders are between phoenix and Living tribunal.

Galactus is above celestials--

Originally posted by manjaro
even tho it was done for the sake of the crossover, on face value one could assume that one of the "brothers" is ToAA, and the presence.

cuz when you think about it, everything, means "everything" so if they both are the total sum of evrything in thier respective univverses, its not hard to make that leap to see them as the "god" of where they came from,......dont get me wrong i know it isnt but im just saying

It's clearly known that there are beings of a "divine nature" that can exist outside either multiverse reality, Michael, Lucifer, Pheonix Force and a few others, these in particular manipulated the creation of the Brothers through the will of TOAA/Presence.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Spectre itself would rank above Micheal and Lucifer as well, as he's a piece of the divine being itself.. However, confrontations between the two would seem to point Micheal as being mightier of the two, as he's beat Spectre a couple of times... you must remember, that Micheal was powered by the divine being, while Spectre was not.. this is usually the Spectre Force itself, punishing the HOST of the Spectre, for daring to go against it. You have to be able to seperate the two.. the Spectre itself, is pretty unlimited. The Host, however, is not, and on numerous occasions, must ultimately give in to the will of God, whether it be through Spectre's power, or another divine manifestation of power. In Corrigan and Hal's series, both for example, ultimately when they let the Spectre itself take over.. it accomplished whatever it wanted to. Even when they couldn't.

At first you disagree but then your story leans to my favor, you see you thunk it through and was enlightened.

Originally posted by Ethereal
The Vishanti are above cosmic cubes--


The True Beyonders are between phoenix and Living tribunal.

Galactus is above celestials--

Vishanti are above Cosmic Cubes, scuse the typo but still in 10th spot.

You want True Beyonders above Michael, Lucifer, Elaine, Spectre, Saint, Source, Voice, Word and Infinites? With facts this cannot be, everyone above except the Infinites is automatic, since all are in combination or aspects if you will of TOAA/Presence. Now the Infintes have proven on a grander than universal scale their power but the True Beyonders, aside from creating Cosmic Cubes and Molecule Man (which is unbelievable on it's own and reason enough to give them a Top 4 ranking) have been incognito ever since more or less seldomly being even heard of.

As for Galactus, well the big "G" has my respect but just isn't consistant enough to rank above Celestials or others, he depends to much on whether he has enough energy or not at the time, and that discourages me a bit.

ain't no time for training in a cosmic battle!

The Word and The Logos are the same being, another name for The Word is The Logos, The Spectre is a part of The Logos(The Word). It was the first Archangel ever and the first being ever created/uncreated by The Presence. All of the Angels in The Silver City call each other brothers or at least some do. The Logos/The Word itself is another name for Jesus (before he was born on earth) that is why The Spectre got so pissed when Jesus died because they was very close (and because they killed Gods only begotten son).

The Voice and The Word, The Source belong at 2nd

Originally posted by Ethereal
The Vishanti are above cosmic cubes--


The True Beyonders are between phoenix and Living tribunal.

Galactus is above celestials--

Rubbish!!!

Must i correct you again Ethy?

People listen up please because this has been going on waaaaay too long. The True Beyonders have never ever been shown or stated in a comic to have power that surpasses just Eternity.

People mistakenly got ideas behind the True Beyonders mixed up with ideas behind the Pre retcon (Fake) Beyonder.

The true Beyonders do NOT exist beyond the Marvel multiverse they actually live within a pocket dimension in the Negative Zone. So when comics sum up the most powerful beings in the multiverse they are left out for a reason. Being within the multiverse theyre also within the jurisdiction of beings such as LT and The White Phoenix of Crown.

The true Beyonders were actually created before Secret Wars and were just powerful cosmic beings who lived in the N zone who carried out research on our dimension via their cosmic cubes which they empowered. They have never been shown to be beyond Eternity level let alone multiversal beings.

The Fake Beyonder was created in Secret Wars however by its sequel editors agreed he was too powerful and upset the hierarchy so they decided to link him to the pre-existing Beyonders and their cosmic cubes therefore depowering him. When this happened people got their wires crossed and mixed and matched ideas between the two. The true beyonders however have never done anything to suggest their beyond even Eternity and as in current continuity Phoenix is the power behind creation they are certainly behind the likes of both Phoenix and LT.

Finally Ethereal you cant escape the fact that on panel (X-men Forever) as shown and stated the one who controls the full Phoenix power is the supreme being of all reality with power enough to humble even the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Finally Ethereal you cant escape the fact that on panel (X-men Forever) as shown and stated the one who controls the full Phoenix power is the supreme being of all reality with power enough to humble even the Living Tribunal.

As would be someoe who controlled the source, or the voice or the blah blah blah ! Why would the PF be above the source ?

Originally posted by yahman
As would be someoe who controlled the source, or the voice or the blah blah blah ! Why would the PF be above the source ?

Where have i said the Phoenix Force is above the Source? Ive always made it clear that they have the same role in their respective multiverses. Once again you fail to read and acknowledge posts properly. Until that changes dont quote me.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where have i said the Phoenix Force is above the Source? Ive always made it clear that they have the same role in their respective multiverses. Once again you fail to read and acknowledge posts properly. Until that changes dont quote me.

The first post suggests it ! You havn't denied it ! You were online, and i was bored !

Originally posted by unknowable
At first you disagree but then your story leans to my favor, you see you thunk it through and was enlightened. No. The Spectre itself is an equal aspect of God. Logoz/Presence/Source/Word.
It, as we know it, is pretty much unlimited, the HOST however, is not.

Originally posted by yahman
The first post suggests it ! You havn't denied it ! You were online, and i was bored !

The fact that i made no comment on the post is not a good enough reason to criticise me for supporting it. Especially when ive always stated that Phoenix equals the Source. Have you thought that i couldnt be bothered?

You slipped up but its cool we all make mistakes. Some more than others....but what the hell!!

ive always wondered why dc has never shown metatron upto this point. it would be great character n story maker in vertigo along with lucifer/micheal etc.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ive always wondered why dc has never shown metatron upto this point. it would be great character n story maker in vertigo along with lucifer/micheal etc.

I agree.

I must be

Hurry up Yahman. Any minute now.

Originally posted by kevdude
The Word and The Logos are the same being, another name for The Word is The Logos, The Spectre is a part of The Logos(The Word). It was the first Archangel ever and the first being ever created/uncreated by The Presence. All of the Angels in The Silver City call each other brothers or at least some do. The Logos/The Word itself is another name for Jesus (before he was born on earth) that is why The Spectre got so pissed when Jesus died because they was very close (and because they killed Gods only begotten son).

The Voice and The Word, The Source belong at 2nd

ey kevdude_ the Word does represent Jesus but not Logoz, here's the proof with evidence:

from the Who's Who of the DC Universe:

Origin of Earth-616 universe:
The Big Bang. The universe is created, formed of vapor and forged with fire. Great energies are born and just as quickly dies as that which was formless struggles to find a form, and that which is without reason seeks purpose. Out of this is born that which is eternal, that which is all and beyond all... The Source. This point in time is often referred to as the "First World".

___ Using his special time-bending device Krona gazes unto the beginning of the universe and ends up unleashing the Anti-Matter Universe.

___ At the moment of creation the entity known as The Voice, as well as the two eternal forces known as Order and Chaos also come into existence. Some evidence even indicate that the Source and the Voice are but two aspects of the same. Shortly after the creation of the universe, when the Voice first opens its mouth it creates the Word. Before it is ever spoken aloud, the word was traced by the hand of the Endless known as Destiny on the first pages of his book.*

___ The time-travelling Spectre finally succeeds in defeating Shathan.

___ The next three of the Endless to come into existence are Death, Dream, and Destruction. It is known that Destruction, the youngest of the three, comes into being as the first sentient beings emerge in the universe.

___ Entities known as the Aurakles also come into being at this time.

___ At some undisclosed point early in the creation of the universe however, after the first four of the Endless, the Archangels known as Lucifer, Uriel, Raphael, Michael, Saraquael, Gabriel, and Ragual come into existence. Early on one-third of the angels of Heaven, led by Lucifer, rebel against their master and are banished to the metaphysical realm that will one day become known as Hell.

*Showcase #61 (March 1966), "Beyond the Sinister Barrier"

Now the Spectre:

Let's just jump to Hal Jordan's time:
When the fallen angel Asmodel stole the power of the Spectre, Hal Jordan was rescued from purgatory to help stop this new threat. Earth's Day of Judgment was stopped and the soul of Hal Jordan was bonded with the Spectre force to become the new Spectre. (See Day of Judgment #3 - 5)

Hal takes on the Wrath, while Batman and Superman fight Mistos. Hal is able to transmute* the Wrath (with willpower ?) into 'the Logoz' (?)- basically a part of God. They defeat Mystos, by showing her that she'd trapped herself on Earth by believing that she was stuck there. The implication was basically that your beliefs change the world around you. This is another way of looking at what Hal was doing as GL, and there's the threat that 'the Logoz' might revert back to the nasty ol' spirit of vengeance if Hal is weak.?(Spectre (4th)#4)

Hal tries to help Two-Face by splitting off his darker side. It's a mistake, and he reintegrates them again. Yeah we create out own destiny, but in setting up that every soul decides how it's going to move forward be it by doing good or evil, it means that the Spectre really doesnt have anything to do. He can just sit on his ass and say it's all Gods will. Why 'allow' them to do evil ? Why 'allow' them to hurt the innocent ? He can prevent it, he can punish, he can teach- He 'should' be doing something. It's so weak. At least (going by the last page) this seemed to be 'the Spectre/ Logoz's will rather than Hals, but it doesn't make for great superheroics. (Spectre (4th)#5)

note:*transmute verb
change in form, nature, or substance :

guess that settles that...

Originally posted by yahman
As would be someoe who controlled the source, or the voice or the blah blah blah ! Why would the PF be above the source ?

the Pheonix Force is above the Source because it is practically responsible for the creation of the muliverse, ofcourse through the will of TOAA.

In the DC reality Michael and Lucifer are responsible for such tasks.

Where basing our list on feats of beyond mulitiversal, multiversal and universal scales.

Originally posted by unknowable
the Pheonix Force is above the Source because it is practically responsible for the creation of the muliverse, ofcourse through the will of TOAA.

In the DC reality Michael and Lucifer are responsible for such tasks.

Where basing our list on feats of beyond mulitiversal, multiversal and universal scales.

scuse the typo...

Only characters who can affect a Beyond Multiversal - Multiversal or Universal scale can on this list.

There are a few typos like The Voice should be above The Word since The Voice created The Word. They where in the same slot so it was an easy mistake.

And just to clear it up Living Tribunal - Spectre/Logoz & the Saint are above The Source/Voice/Word because they are TOAA/Presence's agents of death, this logically means that no one in their boundaries is above them except their masters.
Which is why Pheonix, Michael and Lucifer are above LT - Spectre and Saint, because they exist beyond their boundaries, and Elaine must too because she has all of Michael's power.

Originally posted by unknowable
ey kevdude_ the Word does represent Jesus but not Logoz, here's the proof with evidence:

from the Who's Who of the DC Universe:

Origin of Earth-616 universe:
The Big Bang. The universe is created, formed of vapor and forged with fire. Great energies are born and just as quickly dies as that which was formless struggles to find a form, and that which is without reason seeks purpose. Out of this is born that which is eternal, that which is all and beyond all... The Source. This point in time is often referred to as the "First World".

___ Using his special time-bending device Krona gazes unto the beginning of the universe and ends up unleashing the Anti-Matter Universe.

___ At the moment of creation the entity known as The Voice, as well as the two eternal forces known as Order and Chaos also come into existence. Some evidence even indicate that the Source and the Voice are but two aspects of the same. Shortly after the creation of the universe, when the Voice first opens its mouth it creates the Word. Before it is ever spoken aloud, the word was traced by the hand of the Endless known as Destiny on the first pages of his book.*

___ The time-travelling Spectre finally succeeds in defeating Shathan.

___ The next three of the Endless to come into existence are Death, Dream, and Destruction. It is known that Destruction, the youngest of the three, comes into being as the first sentient beings emerge in the universe.

___ Entities known as the Aurakles also come into being at this time.

___ At some undisclosed point early in the creation of the universe however, after the first four of the Endless, the Archangels known as Lucifer, Uriel, Raphael, Michael, Saraquael, Gabriel, and Ragual come into existence. Early on one-third of the angels of Heaven, led by Lucifer, rebel against their master and are banished to the metaphysical realm that will one day become known as Hell.

*Showcase #61 (March 1966), "Beyond the Sinister Barrier"

Now the Spectre:

Let's just jump to Hal Jordan's time:
When the fallen angel Asmodel stole the power of the Spectre, Hal Jordan was rescued from purgatory to help stop this new threat. Earth's Day of Judgment was stopped and the soul of Hal Jordan was bonded with the Spectre force to become the new Spectre. (See Day of Judgment #3 - 5)

Hal takes on the Wrath, while Batman and Superman fight Mistos. Hal is able to transmute* the Wrath (with willpower ?) into 'the Logoz' (?)- basically a part of God. They defeat Mystos, by showing her that she'd trapped herself on Earth by believing that she was stuck there. The implication was basically that your beliefs change the world around you. This is another way of looking at what Hal was doing as GL, and there's the threat that 'the Logoz' might revert back to the nasty ol' spirit of vengeance if Hal is weak.?(Spectre (4th)#4)

Hal tries to help Two-Face by splitting off his darker side. It's a mistake, and he reintegrates them again. Yeah we create out own destiny, but in setting up that every soul decides how it's going to move forward be it by doing good or evil, it means that the Spectre really doesnt have anything to do. He can just sit on his ass and say it's all Gods will. Why 'allow' them to do evil ? Why 'allow' them to hurt the innocent ? He can prevent it, he can punish, he can teach- He 'should' be doing something. It's so weak. At least (going by the last page) this seemed to be 'the Spectre/ Logoz's will rather than Hals, but it doesn't make for great superheroics. (Spectre (4th)#5)

note:*transmute verb
change in form, nature, or substance :

guess that settles that...
That's wrong though. It wasn't "Transmuted."
You'd have to read it to understand. The wording here is iffy.
With his willpower he saw past the viel of The Wrath, which is a face that the universe itself gave to Spectre, and found The Logoz, a piece of God underneath.

Straight out of that issue.

"I have not changed Hal -- you have! For at last you believe to the core of your being that there is hope... for yourself and the children of Earth. And in believing you have freed me from the tyranny of man's projections."

Hal: "This is your true face?"

"As best you can percieve it."

Hal: "Not a demon at all, you're a. . . a . . piece of God itself."


Then on page 14, for further backup..

"For far too long I have reflected darkness in the human heart. I have been everything they wanted me to be. For the moment at least, your belief has pierced the viel of The Wrath and revealed THE LOGOZ that lies beneath! But do you have the courage to continue seeing me this way? To overide the consensus of reality and embrace the possibilities of what you... what we... what the world...can become?"

What issue is that from, Juntai?

Originally posted by The Ion
What issue is that from, Juntai? Spectre issue 4, series 4. Hal's run. The one he was trying to post the synopsis to.

Nah The Word and the Logos are the same being, ive already read that before, but here is a DC History page u have never seen before which shows The Word = The Logos = The Lord Jesus Christ.

http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/docs/pre20thcentury.html

The Source is Gods Will. The Source belongs at 2nd, and The Voice belong up with The Source as well nothing should be above or with The Source and The Voice not even Lucifer and Michael and The Word. These 3 belong at 3rd spot

Anti-Life Equation?..Destroyed 200 light years of space area?Just by being born?...what the heck kind of being is this?

Originally posted by Ex11B
Anti-Life Equation?..Destroyed 200 light years of space area?Just by being born?...what the heck kind of being is this?

The Anti-Life Equation is a sentient being from a warped and distant universe with unbelivable power. In a graphic novel written by Jim Starlin and penciled by Mike Mignola called Cosmic Odyssey The Anti-Life Equation is defined and fought against. To give you a small scenerio of how powerful Anti-Life is heres this, in order to stun it for literally "a micro second" as it's quoted from the book in order to save the universe which Anti-Life came so close to destroy, Dr. Fate, High Father(leader of the new gods), Orion, Darksied and Etrigen the demon had to combine all their energy to create something called the Cinque of Cosmic Power, now mind you while combined as the Cinque of Cosmic Power they were able to destroy an entire universe in this same novel but when they fired a blast that contained all the might they could muster at the Anti-Life Equation, it was only stunned for a micro second... nuff said'

The AntiLife Equation.....
I thought it was almost Spectre strong........ ??

Anyway, Ii agree with GS....... wait a minute....... I do ??

I never said the True beyonders were above phoenix.

I know they were retconned, and the idea that the beyonder Im speaking of who obliterated death and had the upper level sbstratcs terrfied to face him was trashed. Bu im just speaking of that short time period.

In response to unknowable, the Living Tribunal is more powerful than the Phoenix Force. In regards to the true beyonders, it was stated when the Tribunal held court with Eternity, Chaos and Order, he(LT) allowed them to enter Earth. I like the Celestials over Galactus anyday

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ive always wondered why dc has never shown metatron upto this point. it would be great character n story maker in vertigo along with lucifer/micheal etc.

Metatron was shown in a DC Supergirl comic back in I believe mid 90s.