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This is really quite simple: pick who you believe to be the ideal Sith in practice and explain why.

I choose Tulak Hord, mainly because he's one of the only ones left that hasn't been overpowered with rediculous abilities. And I rather like his mysteriousness.

Yeah, Uber Lightsaber master of all the Sith isn't overpowered in the least.

It's better than blowing up a star with the force. Or whatever that uber god Marka Ragnos can do.

sidious. hes the only sith powerful enough to actually return the sith to power. he followed the rule of two by killing his master, and by chosing an apprentice that will eventually become more powerful than him (too bad he got hacked up by obi wan). hes the most secrative and shadowy. he forsees almost evrything. he has no concience at all. im sure hed unleash a torrent of force lightning on his own mother is she mentioned the word jedi. if hed actaully refrained from killing her the second he learned how to walk well enough to find a knife or blaster.

he is massively powerful, unlike tyranus he doesnt have any ideals or desire to end curruption. unlike vader he has no ties to the light side at all. he is pure sith. nothing but darkness. no redeming qualitys at all. and hes the only sith lord i know of that has totally ruled the entire galaxy for any length of time. in the end it too the chosen one to join him and then betray him to put an end to his rule. and i think he was the most powerful sentient in the galaxy for the majority of his life

Well, the point of the poll was who follows the Sith ideals in your opinion. Considering we know nothing about Tulak Hord I'd say you pretty much whiffed on that one.

Sidious, he had personal power in mind, along with the Sith in general ( becoming the ruler of the galaxy and choosing an apprentice who would become more poweful then himself). He was also so elaborate and tedious with his planning, that he could, and did, become ruler of the galaxy right in front of the Jedi's eyes.

Yeah, Sidious.

A few Sith Lords only became it simply to practice and amass the power of the Dark Side, such as Kun or Revan or Dooku, and were not very loyal to the cause. Sidious is the epitomy of evil. While he is not the most powerful Sith, he is the most effective one we've seen. He is extremely ambitious and very cunning, and he is a mastermind of an unparalleled degree, with only Marka Ragnos and Traya being his potential rivals. He also was so skilled at the Sith ideals of manipulation that he conquered and controlled the entire galaxy due to his skills in this area. He is, in my opinion, the most evil Force User or Sith we've seen.

well it depends on what sith ideal your talkin about. granted the ideals changed dramatically when darth bane made the rule of 2 after that the deals are almost completely different from before.

and SS 181st Snow no one has any evidence that ragnos has blown up stars we just know he was ruler of the sith for 150 years unchallenged from guys like Sadow. an dthat he has a powerful staff.

KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!111!!!!!! evil, superpowerful, would have conqured the republic if ulic had a brain. PERFECT

Traya and Sidious. Both used sneaky methods and both paid off. Sidious ruled the galaxy and Traya almost obliterated the force.

Sidious is too manipulative...Malak too brutal...Revan was a strategic genius

Darth Sidious, the only Sith to actually destroy the Jedi Order. The others just brought it to its knees but never actually managed to wipe it out. Plus hes a political genious, his rise to power oblivious to everyone around him as well as manipulating the galaxy around him so that the stage was perfectly right for the time he would seize power and wipe out the Jedi was brilliantly executed.

Sidious = Devious Bastard who rapes little boys.
Vader = Imbicle
Bane = Pshyco who kills children (trust me he did)
Exar Kun = Overpowered Genius and somewhat insane.
Darth Revan = Badass and coolist Sith Lord around.
Marka Ragnos = Uber God
Naga Sadow = Lesser God
Freedon Nadd = Konan in disguise.
Darth Tyrannus = Elgegant nobleman with a lightsaber.

Overall my ideal Sith would have to be Revan. Revan was cold calculating and ruthless and never let his emotions cloud his choices. Plus he was a brilliant stragtegist and very powerful.

Originally posted by Veneficus
Sidious = Devious Bastard who rapes little boys.
Vader = Imbicle
Bane = Pshyco who kills children (trust me he did)
Exar Kun = Overpowered Genius and somewhat insane.
Darth Revan = Badass and coolist Sith Lord around.
Marka Ragnos = Uber God
Naga Sadow = Lesser God
Freedon Nadd = Konan in disguise.
Darth Tyrannus = Elgegant nobleman with a lightsaber.

Overall my ideal Sith would have to be Revan. Revan was cold calculating and ruthless and never let his emotions cloud his choices. Plus he was a brilliant stragtegist and very powerful.

same

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
well it depends on what sith ideal your talkin about. granted the ideals changed dramatically when darth bane made the rule of 2 after that the deals are almost completely different from before.

and SS 181st Snow no one has any evidence that ragnos has blown up stars we just know he was ruler of the sith for 150 years unchallenged from guys like Sadow. an dthat he has a powerful staff.

Well someone blew up a star with the force, or so I heard a hundred times on these boards.

And Tulak has to be something, to be in leauges with the Sith. But, if you had any imagination, you wouldn't be on the internet right now.

I personally don't see how Revan is the ideal Sith practitioner. He may have been very powerful, but he only joined the Dark Side to unite the Republic and destroy the Ancient Sith. Not only that, but he eventually defected. He's a brilliant tactition, but is that really enough to warrant him the title of ideal Sith practitioner? He's not really evil... Nor does he do it for selfish reasons... I dunno. I just don't see him as a Sith. Nor do I see Traya. She simply used the Dark Side to try and obliterate the Force.

Revan. Charismatic leader, ingenious strategist, skilled swordsman, feared master.

Originally posted by Se7in
Revan. Charismatic leader, ingenious strategist, skilled swordsman, feared master. Those don't make a Sith, any non-Sith can have those too.

I pick Sidious.

I mean, power-wise he may not even stand up against Kun or maybe even Malak. But he actually used his knowledge and power to do what all Sith, right from their origin, have desired to do: Destroy the Republic and the Jedi, and conquer the galaxy.

If that's not the ultimate Sith Ideal I don't know what is.

Still, no Sith displayed these characterisitics. Sidious is great and all with the deception and power, but I don't think Sith should move in silence. Revan announced himself and still managed to nearly beat the Republic, had it not been for Bastila.

Traya wasn't really a Sith, that I warrant. Revan was powerful. He near obliterated the Jedi Order, but unlike the Jedi Genocide of Palpatine and Vader, he converted them.

Bane. He did more damage to the Jedi than anyone other than Sidious and eventually came up with the tactics that allowed Sidious to win. He was also ruthless(killed children infront of their parents), and powerful(nearly destroyed the Army of the Light until Kaan screwed everything up).

Aye, Bane or Sidious or Ragnos deserves the title. Revan's tactics were good, but not good enough to warrant him victory, which is why I guess that no other Sith announced their presence and tried to take on the Republic, simply because it wouldn't work. Revan was a tactical genius, and indeed, he was charismatic. But so was Count Dooku. Sidious, as well, was very charismatic and managed to ascend to the highest office of the Republic because of it, just as Dooku managed to subvert the galaxy's most powerful commerce barons to succeede from the Republic and join the Confederacy. Charisma is all well and good, but Revan is not the only one who has it.

Traya is brilliant, and is the only other Dark Side user I can think of who is on par with the likes of Ragnos and Palpatine in intellect. But she was not a true Sith, not even in practice, simply because she didn't care for their ideals - but rather their power - which she used to try and destroy the Force.

Bane revolutionized the Sith Order, and transformed it into the secretive clandestine group that eventually led to Sidious's victory. In essence, he established the only way of the Sith that we have seen successful. The Rule of Two, for the most part, worked - and it thankfully ensured the Sith's ongoing survival - underneath the Jedi's noses. He was brilliant, and very wise, and made one of three landmark changes in the Sith ways. And this time, it was for the better.

Ragnos is the most powerful Sith we've known, I think. So powerful was he, that in a time where the Sith were heavily populated and described as 'god-like', no other Sith dared to attack him. He was described as having immense physical strength, as well as immense aptitude with the Force. Ragnos used fear, manipulation, and downright power to quell his foes.

Then we have Sidious. Sidious made the largest landmark victory for the Sith, by conquering the Republic and the Jedi in one fell swoop. He used devious tactics, and unparalleled manipulation to achieve his ends. He orchestrated one of the most taxing wars in the galaxy's history, and manipulated both ends. To add insult to injury, he ascended to the leadership of the Republic, being a Sith Lord, and effectively 'controlled' - to some extent - the Jedi before he wiped them out. In the Republic's place, he created the most powerful regime in the galaxy's history, and instituted an era of tyranny over the galaxy. Though he was eventually defeated, and though he was not all powerful, he was more effective than any other Sith, with the 'possible' exception of the aforementioned Sith Lords.

True. I made a mistake by instantly voting for Revan without looking at the threads title...

I agree with that analysis.

I suppose I would have to choose Revan as the most ideal Sith due to the information already posted above.

Originally posted by Se7in
Still, no Sith displayed these characterisitics. Sidious is great and all with the deception and power, but I don't think Sith should move in silence. Revan announced himself and still managed to nearly beat the Republic, had it not been for Bastila. As I said, those qualities don't come with Sithhood, the're just alternative bonuses.

Revan wasn't a Sith when he beat the Mandalorians, yet he still had those characteristics.

I must agree wit Escape, over-all Sidious takes this. Sure, he is not the strongest, or the best fighter, but he actually accomplished his goal and did something that no other sith has ever done. And he did it with the jedi following along behind him like dogs.

Revan, is my pick. He was good and intellgent. He killed the Mandalorians, and won the war. He guided Malak to te Star forge. If Malak wouldn't have shot Revan on his ship, Revan would have been truly invincible if he got the Star Forge. Malak said it himself.

Revan did it with lightside intentions, though, making him not truly a Sith.

omg...am i the only one that chose freedon nad?
he convinced exar kun to go the dark path.

Originally posted by zerodan17
Revan, is my pick. He was good and intellgent. He killed the Mandalorians, and won the war. He guided Malak to te Star forge. If Malak wouldn't have shot Revan on his ship, Revan would have been truly invincible if he got the Star Forge. Malak said it himself.

Actually, I think Revan knew about it, but since he was only gonna use the Star Forge for a certain amount of time he didnt care and/or he didnt want to become dependant on it.

Originally posted by SS_181st_Snow
I choose Tulak Hord, mainly because he's one of the only ones left that hasn't been overpowered with ridiculous abilities. And I rather like his mysteriousness.



He hasn't been overpowered with ridiculous abilities? He's was the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy's history. Alot of people would agree that pitting Yoda, Dooku, Sidious, and Mace simultaneously against Tulak in a lightsaber duel wouldn't be a fair match against the 4. Meaning the 4 would lose, lol.

He was extremely overpowered with ridiculous abilities, you mean.

Originally posted by Decay
sidious.

hes the only sith lord i know of that has totally ruled the entire galaxy for any length of time.

Have you forgotten that Sidious himself said "Once more the Sith will rule the Galaxy" meaning there have been Sith in the past that have ruled the Galaxy and definetely longer than a mere 20 years.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
He hasn't been overpowered with ridiculous abilities? He's was the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy's history. Alot of people would agree that pitting Yoda, Dooku, Sidious, and Mace simultaneously against Tulak in a lightsaber duel wouldn't be a fair match against the 4. Meaning the 4 would lose, lol.

He was extremely overpowered with ridiculous abilities, you mean.

So what if he is the greatest? Maybe he EARNED that title? But did Luke or Kyp EARN the ability to control a blackhole? **** no. It's because Lucas accepts just about any piece of shit that slides under his nose, instead of reading it like he should.

GL never reads the books.

Originally posted by Escape81
Aye, Bane or Sidious or Ragnos deserves the title. Revan's tactics were good, but not good enough to warrant him victory, which is why I guess that no other Sith announced their presence and tried to take on the Republic, simply because it wouldn't work. Revan was a tactical genius, and indeed, he was charismatic. But so was Count Dooku. Sidious, as well, was very charismatic and managed to ascend to the highest office of the Republic because of it, just as Dooku managed to subvert the galaxy's most powerful commerce barons to succeede from the Republic and join the Confederacy. Charisma is all well and good, but Revan is not the only one who has it.

Traya is brilliant, and is the only other Dark Side user I can think of who is on par with the likes of Ragnos and Palpatine in intellect. But she was not a true Sith, not even in practice, simply because she didn't care for their ideals - but rather their power - which she used to try and destroy the Force.

Bane revolutionized the Sith Order, and transformed it into the secretive clandestine group that eventually led to Sidious's victory. In essence, he established the only way of the Sith that we have seen successful. The Rule of Two, for the most part, worked - and it thankfully ensured the Sith's ongoing survival - underneath the Jedi's noses. He was brilliant, and very wise, and made one of three landmark changes in the Sith ways. And this time, it was for the better.

Ragnos is the most powerful Sith we've known, I think. So powerful was he, that in a time where the Sith were heavily populated and described as 'god-like', no other Sith dared to attack him. He was described as having immense physical strength, as well as immense aptitude with the Force. Ragnos used fear, manipulation, and downright power to quell his foes.

Then we have Sidious. Sidious made the largest landmark victory for the Sith, by conquering the Republic and the Jedi in one fell swoop. He used devious tactics, and unparalleled manipulation to achieve his ends. He orchestrated one of the most taxing wars in the galaxy's history, and manipulated both ends. To add insult to injury, he ascended to the leadership of the Republic, being a Sith Lord, and effectively 'controlled' - to some extent - the Jedi before he wiped them out. In the Republic's place, he created the most powerful regime in the galaxy's history, and instituted an era of tyranny over the galaxy. Though he was eventually defeated, and though he was not all powerful, he was more effective than any other Sith, with the 'possible' exception of the aforementioned Sith Lords.

I can't argue with this.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
He hasn't been overpowered with ridiculous abilities? He's was the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy's history. Alot of people would agree that pitting Yoda, Dooku, Sidious, and Mace simultaneously against Tulak in a lightsaber duel wouldn't be a fair match against the 4. Meaning the 4 would lose, lol.

He was extremely overpowered with ridiculous abilities, you mean.

He was the greatest Sith lightsaber duelist until 4000 years before the PT. Meaning that there was room for improvement. Although he likely is among the top five saber-duelists in history.

Anyway, the example you stated is the product of opinion. Just because certain people on this forum believe that Hord would defeat the four most powerful beings of an era doesn't mean that he would. If that were the case, I'd say Luke can shoot supernova fireballs out of his hands, and he'd be able to.

What about Xendor? the first sithlord

Originally posted by Escape81
Aye, Bane or Sidious or Ragnos deserves the title. Revan's tactics were good, but not good enough to warrant him victory, which is why I guess that no other Sith announced their presence and tried to take on the Republic, simply because it wouldn't work. Revan was a tactical genius, and indeed, he was charismatic. But so was Count Dooku. Sidious, as well, was very charismatic and managed to ascend to the highest office of the Republic because of it, just as Dooku managed to subvert the galaxy's most powerful commerce barons to succeede from the Republic and join the Confederacy. Charisma is all well and good, but Revan is not the only one who has it.

Traya is brilliant, and is the only other Dark Side user I can think of who is on par with the likes of Ragnos and Palpatine in intellect. But she was not a true Sith, not even in practice, simply because she didn't care for their ideals - but rather their power - which she used to try and destroy the Force.

Bane revolutionized the Sith Order, and transformed it into the secretive clandestine group that eventually led to Sidious's victory. In essence, he established the only way of the Sith that we have seen successful. The Rule of Two, for the most part, worked - and it thankfully ensured the Sith's ongoing survival - underneath the Jedi's noses. He was brilliant, and very wise, and made one of three landmark changes in the Sith ways. And this time, it was for the better.

Ragnos is the most powerful Sith we've known, I think. So powerful was he, that in a time where the Sith were heavily populated and described as 'god-like', no other Sith dared to attack him. He was described as having immense physical strength, as well as immense aptitude with the Force. Ragnos used fear, manipulation, and downright power to quell his foes.

Then we have Sidious. Sidious made the largest landmark victory for the Sith, by conquering the Republic and the Jedi in one fell swoop. He used devious tactics, and unparalleled manipulation to achieve his ends. He orchestrated one of the most taxing wars in the galaxy's history, and manipulated both ends. To add insult to injury, he ascended to the leadership of the Republic, being a Sith Lord, and effectively 'controlled' - to some extent - the Jedi before he wiped them out. In the Republic's place, he created the most powerful regime in the galaxy's history, and instituted an era of tyranny over the galaxy. Though he was eventually defeated, and though he was not all powerful, he was more effective than any other Sith, with the 'possible' exception of the aforementioned Sith Lords.

That pretty much nails it.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
What about Xendor? the first sithlord
xndor was the first dark-side user. not a sith.

xendor*

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Have you forgotten that Sidious himself said "Once more the Sith will rule the Galaxy" meaning there have been Sith in the past that have ruled the Galaxy and definetely longer than a mere 20 years.
yes. they have ruled the galaxy before. but they have never defeated the republic.

Originally posted by calvin44
yes. they have ruled the galaxy before. but they have never defeated the republic.

Well, before Revan got brainwashed, the Republic was getting it's ass handed to it on a golden platter.

but the republic was never destroyed

Sids. He's just too good.

And Vader.

I thought Darth Revan would be great, I love jedi that have been tainted by the dark side.

Darth Hannibal the cannibal is sure in my top ten.

Other: Darth Maul. Before reading Shadow Hunter I thought Lord Maul was a low down killer and served no real purpose in the story. But that fool really is the ideal Sith Lord. His only existance, and everything he eats, sleeps, and breathes, is the destruction of the Jedi Order. He was completely devoted to Sidious and, unlike Tyrannus or Vader, he had no ambitious to betray and kill his master. As revealed in Shadow Hunter, when Lord Sidious was meditating in his prviate chambers, he is a superb duelist better on par with most of the Jedi Council members, who's only major flaw is arrogance. Which is of course how he died. Had Lord Maul survived til ROTS he woulda been a considerable adversary for the Jedi.

And Darth Vader should not even be an option in the poll. He still had good, love, and friendship in him, which are not Sith charactaristics.

Sidious is the only true sith lord because he was cold, ruthless and cunning. Vader had emotions left in him. At the end of Episode III when Padme dies she tells Obi-Wan that there's still good in him. Which is true because after Vader finds out he has a son, he starts to have attachments again. He could've killed Luke in ESB, but he offered him to join him and rule the galaxy as father and son, because he knew if Luke became Vader's apprentice, Luke would be able to kill Palpatine with ease.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Have you forgotten that Sidious himself said "Once more the Sith will rule the Galaxy" meaning there have been Sith in the past that have ruled the Galaxy and definetely longer than a mere 20 years.

Proof?

I don't doubt that there have been other Sith that've ruled the galaxy. But we haven't seen them. Ragnos, Sadow, and the others ruled an empire - but it was small and certainly wasn't the dominant force in the galaxy, let alone the ruler of it. And I'd also like to know where it is proven that they ruled it longer than a mere twenty years.

Nihilus he sucked the life out of hundreds of jedi and sith

Originally posted by Se7in
Still, no Sith displayed these characterisitics. Sidious is great and all with the deception and power, but I don't think Sith should move in silence. Revan announced himself and still managed to nearly beat the Republic, had it not been for Bastila.

Sith have to move in silence to achieve their goals. Look at all the old Sith Lords like Naga Sadow and Exar Kun. They announced themselves and either got killed by the enemy or by their allies. The Sith have no one they can trust. The moment they turn their back on the fellow Sith to concentrate on the Jedi is the moment they are betrayed. None of the old Sith managed to beat the Republic because of this. Also, look at the question. Revan isn't even a real Sith, he's a Dark Jedi, so he doesn't even meet the requirements. And everything he did was done through more or less the same way as those before him, so he's not really that special. You say there is no Sith that displayed these characteristics. Ever hear of the Sith'ari? It is a prophecy of a perfect being, one that would destroy the Sith as they were and rebuild them stronger than ever. Well, the Sith'ari is Darth Bane. Although there are other more powerful Sith that can be named, Bane's vision led to the only incident of Sith truly beating Jedi in the entire Star Wars universe. The question asks for the ideal Sith. The ideal Sith is basically a role model for other Sith to look up to and idolize. The ideal Sith doesn't necessarily have to be looked up to for his power, but by how helpful he was in the fight against the Jedi. The two Sith who were the most helpful in the fight were Sidious and Bane, and I don't consider Sidious an ideal Sith. Sure, he's the most powerful, but he's not very ideal, mostly because when he became Emperor he turned his back on the very Rule that got him in his position by taking several apprentices rather than just one. Bane, however, lived an ideal Sith life and died an ideal Sith death.

Originally posted by Darth Callous
Other: Darth Maul. Before reading Shadow Hunter I thought Lord Maul was a low down killer and served no real purpose in the story. But that fool really is the ideal Sith Lord. His only existance, and everything he eats, sleeps, and breathes, is the destruction of the Jedi Order. He was completely devoted to Sidious and, unlike Tyrannus or Vader, he had no ambitious to betray and kill his master. As revealed in Shadow Hunter, when Lord Sidious was meditating in his prviate chambers, he is a superb duelist better on par with most of the Jedi Council members, who's only major flaw is arrogance. Which is of course how he died. Had Lord Maul survived til ROTS he woulda been a considerable adversary for the Jedi.

And Darth Vader should not even be an option in the poll. He still had good, love, and friendship in him, which are not Sith charactaristics.

Vader and Revan aren't even Sith, they're Dark Jedi. They shouldn't be up there. Maul's arrogance and lack of ambition aren't ideal Sith traits. The ideal Sith should be power-hungry, but also balance that out with patience and cunning. Sidious balanced those out very well, as did other Sith in Bane's lineage. Maul isn't a good pick because he was too arrogant, line many other Sith, and this led to his death in an intense battle against a pissed off PADAWAN.

Necromancer! Kill it! Burn the necromancer! BURN!

These posters have largely departed; a few actively dislike the current members. You're unlikely to get any response from the original participants of the discussion here. The posting date/time is found in the lower left quadrant of each post. The most recent one before your own was December of 2005, nearly 7 years ago.

My view is, there really isn't one 'Sith Ideal,' so it's a pretty tricky question.

I'd say most Sith Masters view themselves as the Sith Ideal.

I voted for Sidious.

I would say Bane. He literally wrote the book on how to be a proper Sith. For all of Sideous' dag-nasty-evilness, he didn't really have ambitions for the Sith beyond destroying the Jedi. He never had any genuine desire to train an apprentice who could replace him, for example. His ultimate plan was to live forever and replace his apprentices after their useful ran out. Not exactly good for Sith ideals, I don't think.

Thats why I chose him actually. I guess it depends on what you think the ideal Sith is. I chose Sidious because he is the ultimate selfish dickhole who cares only for power for its own sake.

Bane in comparison created an order founded on the principle that he'd train someone to kill him.

Yea, is it about being in it for yourself, or some sith philosophy? Is it about being the most focused on advancing the goals of the Sith even beyond one's self? And so on.

Originally posted by Q99
My view is, there really isn't one 'Sith Ideal,' so it's a pretty tricky question.

I'd say most Sith Masters view themselves as the Sith Ideal.

I'd say whichever Sith best adheres to the Sith Code. So obviously Bandon.

The Sith Code is too nebulous and hard to judge for that imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Sith Code is too nebulous and hard to judge for that imo.

Yea, it's rather vague. Both Bane and Krayt believed strongly in the code, and they aren't fans of each other.


Now, one could go into who follows the beliefs of the Rule of Two or Rule of One best.

Who in the RoT never sought immortality, got more than one apprentice, or so on?

Nothing wrong with seeking immortality in RoT. If your apprentice can't destroy the Sith Master because the Master discovered the secrets of immortality than the apprentice is not worthy of replacing the master.

Regardless, I'd argue blindly following either Rule isn't the Sith way. Does not the Code speak about breaking "chains" and what are rules if not chains?

Anyway, I think Sidious is the clear winner in this poll. He is the only Sith to attain victory by conquering the galaxy and destroying the Jedi Order. Bane is also a worthy candidate as he revolutionized the Sith Order and set them on the road to victory.

On a different not, I never viewed Kaan as a bad Sith, in fact I find him to be one of the greatest. Yes, his "views" of equality is perhaps heretical for the Sith but it's rather clear that he was the real ruler of the Brotherhood of Darkness. He simply was manipulating the other Lords and making them think they were his equals while simultaneously preventing any Sith from becoming as powerful as him. It was deftly done and actually quite "Sithy".

Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, I'd argue blindly following either Rule isn't the Sith way. Does not the Code speak about breaking "chains" and what are rules if not chains? I think an inherently selfish and fearful being with adequate wisdom, who coveted power, would be willing to accept certain limitations if it ensured their survival and prosperity. Accept stealth and small numbers, and gain knowledge and power. Worthwhile trade off.

I'd agree. Which is why I said "blindly". If said Sith Lord felt the RoT was the most efficient system then I'd certainly say that is the Sith way. But if they were following it because of tradition or because some old Sith said it was a rule then I'd claim they aren't a "good" Sith.

Which was Maul's problem. He was just looking for a daddy figure.

Poor Maul. All it takes is a mean Jedi to cut Maul in half and "daddy" throws him aside for an old man with greasy hair.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I pick Sidious.

I mean, power-wise he may not even stand up against Kun or maybe even Malak.
profiled
(in the spirit of fair play, there exists a thread where one of my posts can be construed as anti-N. Find it if you can.)

I miss being younger.

The way most sith that pursue immortality has struck me as fairly un-sithy- most of the time it doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the apprentice per se, but more the master getting cold feat or the like.

Pre-death Krayt got distracted from his greater goals by it (which Wyyrlok called him on). Sidious resurrected left himself vulnerable in pursuit of a stronger host. Bane sought it even knowing Zannah was very strong. Andeddu was so focused on it he retreated into hiding only to miss millennia and then be killed by Wyyrlok.



Yes, but both the Sith rules involve advancement through power within their tenants, just that doing so must serve the goals of the sith. With strength, more and more chains are broken until one sits at the top.

I'd have to say Sidious or Bane.

Sidious followed the tenets of the Sith to the point of being able to almost crush the Jedi order out of existence, and beforehand managed to use them in his own schemes. His real weakness as pointed out by other, even Caedus' whiny butt, was his quest for power for the sake of power. He also sought immortality not to further the Sith, but simply because he wanted to live forever.

As to Bane, while he too sought the ability to live on, he actively instilled in Zannah the importance of facing him in combat to the death, making it clear to her that if she couldn't destroy him he would crush her and take another which he was preparing to do. He saw the Sith as a whole as more important than himself and accepted that his death would eventually be a necessary part of the continuance of the order.

He saw how weak the Sith had become from their endless in-fighting so he manipulated those he considered unworthy into destroying themselves and a large number of powerful Jedi.

Both Sidious and Bane displayed everything from great brute force to a mastery of cunning and patience in the end goal.

but Sidious ignored one of the most basic of Sith rules. He killed his master while his master was asleep. he didnt prove he was superior and thus deserving of the mantle of "Lord of the Sith"

Bane completely accepted these rules and did not seek to prolong his life forever but just long enough to find a worthy successor since he believed Zannah wasn't up to the challenge.

Bane 100%

Sith that could be killed in a sleep didn't deserve the mantle of "Lord of the Sith".

point taken. but Plagues also killed his master in a underhanded tactic. both were undeserving imo

How did Plagueis kill his master?

My vote goes to person who works to destroy the Jedi, to gain power over the entire Galaxy and further the cause of the Sith, but also who values himself before the order and ultimately works to gain power and for himself to rule.

Who better than Sidious really?

Originally posted by ares834
On a different not, I never viewed Kaan as a bad Sith, in fact I find him to be one of the greatest. Yes, his "views" of equality is perhaps heretical for the Sith but it's rather clear that he was the real ruler of the Brotherhood of Darkness. He simply was manipulating the other Lords and making them think they were his equals while simultaneously preventing any Sith from becoming as powerful as him. It was deftly done and actually quite "Sithy".

This is very good point.

I agree, Sidious and Plagueis aren't as deserving of the title Dark Lord.


I think its Bane. He mastered all the tools of the Sith, strength, sublty, cunning, and sheer will power. I mean, he made Kaan look forward to using the Thought Bomb. Diplomacy, telling someone to go to Hell, and making them look forward to the trip there. <- Bane's little trickery.

Hey, if the Sith Master finds a way to live forever that requires him to brutally take over the body of his apprentice during the fight, its all fair. They had a chance.

I still think valuing the Sith Order over yourself isn't in fact very Sithly, especially creating an order where you were perfectly happy for your apprentice to become more powerful than you and overthrow you. Sidious on other hand wanted to live forever.

I see it as more of a necessity. Bane knew that the Sith needed to stay small in number, and so decided on 2. However, he also knew that the Dark Side had to have the strongest rule, so he instituted the Rule of Two, so the apprentice must kill the master before they take an apprentice. And its all fueled by the hatred of the Jedi. Thats the part that makes it Sithly.

Palpatine wanting to live forever is fine, theres nothing in the Rule of Two to stop him. If the apprentice can't kill him, and make him stay dead, they aren't worthy of the title of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Originally posted by Pwned
Palpatine wanting to live forever is fine, theres nothing in the Rule of Two to stop him. If the apprentice can't kill him, and make him stay dead, they aren't worthy of the title of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Who needs an apprentice when you can grow a younger version of yourself and just swap bodies.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
I still think valuing the Sith Order over yourself isn't in fact very Sithly, especially creating an order where you were perfectly happy for your apprentice to become more powerful than you and overthrow you. Sidious on other hand wanted to live forever.

What's your opinion on Krayt? He made his order to serve him and his ideals, so that it'd carry on if he died (or when he was out of action) but not intending to die if he could help it.

Wasn't The Order of One basically the same kind of thing as the Brotherhood of Darkness? Because if it was then the fact that all Sith Lords were considered equal, even if there was a leader, and if Krayt really believed it, then I think a Sith that wanted power just for himself would be better. Imo a true Sith shouldn't share power, or as little of it as possible.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Wasn't The Order of One basically the same kind of thing as the Brotherhood of Darkness? Because if it was then the fact that all Sith Lords were considered equal, even if there was a leader, and if Krayt really believed it, then I think a Sith that wanted power just for himself would be better. Imo a true Sith shouldn't share power, or as little of it as possible.

Oh no, in the One Sith all were not equal. Not remotely.

To Krayt, the purpose of the Sith was to be an extension of the leader and their power, nothing more. They do what's ordered, they die when ordered, and they are trained to be loyal to the Sith order's goals. They are all one Sith with one will- Krayt's will.

The positions of authority reflect this- the Voice, the Fist, the Hands, etc.. The second-in-command of the One Sith, Wyyrlok, is has the position of Voice because he symbolically speaks with Krayt's voice when Krayt is not around. While they may be powerful in their own right, all Sith but one are subservient to that one. And lower-rank sith are all subservient to them, and so on, down to non-darths being subservient to darths, with rank earned by strength and success.


When there is a dispute in leadership, there is no question of compromise. One kills the other, and everyone else follows the victor.

Ah I didn't realise that. Though I have one more question. Were Krayt's goals somehow "noble" more than driven by his list for power and dominance. Didn't he want to rule to make Galaxy a better place and make those ruling it stronger?

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Ah I didn't realise that. Though I have one more question. Were Krayt's goals somehow "noble" more than driven by his list for power and dominance. Didn't he want to rule to make Galaxy a better place and make those ruling it stronger?

No, not noble. After the CW Krayt ended up on Korriban and studied from a Sith Spirit, then when he was captured by the Yuuzhan Vong and put in the Embrace of Pain he had a vision of himself leading the One Sith. So Krayt was really all about the power.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
Ah I didn't realise that. Though I have one more question. Were Krayt's goals somehow "noble" more than driven by his list for power and dominance. Didn't he want to rule to make Galaxy a better place and make those ruling it stronger?

He felt the galaxy needed to be controlled by his order, though it's arguable how 'noble' that was (especially when, after his death and rebirth, he viewed the galaxy should go through the same thing).

Basically his One Sith were a model of how he viewed the galaxy should be.

And obviously based off the Ancient Sith, but without the stupidness. Well, most of it.

Originally posted by Pwned
I agree, Sidious and Plagueis aren't as deserving of the title Dark Lord.

The ultimate goal of the sith was to destroy the jedi order and bring the galaxy under their control. Since Palpatine managed to do this, I would say he is the ultimate sith. Although previous sith from Bane down to Plagueis helped in laying the ground work, it was still Palpatine who brought the galaxy under his control by manipulating both sides of the CW and playing the jedi like fools right under their noses, all while influencing the senate in giving him more and more executive powers. And when push came to shove, Palpatine was able to whip out a lightsaber of his own and go toe-2-toe with the best of the jedi.


Originally posted by Pwned
I think its Bane. He mastered all the tools of the Sith, strength, sublty, cunning, and sheer will power.

Tools Palpatine also mastered, and to a very high degree.

without Bane's ground work Palpatine would have had NOTHING! and again Sidious never properly took the mantle of "Lord of the Sith" which imo (and Bane's) weakens the Sith. if Sidious actually challenged and lost to Plagues then Plagues would have found another (probably more powerful and cunning) to replace him with making the Sith MUCH more powerful than Sidious ever could.

And Sidious leaving no room for a more powerful Sith to replace him also causes more problems. he was able to create more bodies and increase his power right? but if say Vader (before he became a cyborg) or just another more power person had the chance to do the same his power would completely eclipse Palpatine's effectively making the Sith ever more uber

Exactly. Palpatine did not have a rightful claim to the mantle of Dark Lord. He killed his master in his sleep rather than facing him. If that was required for him to win, he was not done learning from him. Sure, Palpatine proved that he is the best manipulator around. But not the best Sith. He didn't live up to his Order's ideals.

And Plagues was the same. He killed his master as they were both deflecting rubble from crushing them after an explosion. It was a cheap shot not much better than what was done to him

EDIT: Niether ever became true Lords of the Sith since they stole the mantle underhandedly instead of proving they were worthy of it.

Originally posted by juggerman
without Bane's ground work Palpatine would have had NOTHING!

Bane HELPED in laying the ground work along with many other sith after him, but Palpatine is the one who made it happen. Darth Sidious, according to canon sources and even Lucas himself, was the revenge of the sith. Bane wasn't.

Originally posted by juggerman
Sidious never properly took the mantle of "Lord of the Sith" which imo (and Bane's) weakens the Sith.

I don't think Bane's personal opinion on how exactly the mantle should be taken matters in the grande scheme of things. Sidious managed to bring about the ultimate goal of the sith, so I doubt Bane was rolling around in his grave all because Sidious didn't fight Plagueis fairly.

Palpatine proved his superiority over Plagueis by both clouding Plagueis' mind and manipulating him.

Originally posted by juggerman
if Sidious actually challenged and lost to Plagues then Plagues would have found another (probably more powerful and cunning) to replace him with making the Sith MUCH more powerful than Sidious ever could.

Plagueis believes Palpatine's skill in subterfuge surpasses any sith before him (including Bane), so, no, Plagueis would not have found an apprentice like Palpatine any time too soon...if ever.



Originally posted by juggerman
And Sidious leaving no room for a more powerful Sith to replace him also causes more problems. he was able to create more bodies and increase his power right? but if say Vader (before he became a cyborg) or just another more power person had the chance to do the same his power would completely eclipse Palpatine's effectively making the Sith ever more uber

The ultimate goal of the sith had been accomplished. Darth Sidious was sitting on the throne as ruler of the galaxy, so why in hell would he want that taken away from him (lol)? No true sith would.

Bane created a way for the Sith to have their revenge at all. that doesnt really sound like he "helped" as much as he "laid the foundation" imo



he did bring about the ultimate goal of the Sith but again my point was had he fought Plagues and lost another (probably more powerful) being would have been the Sith's revenge. and have he waited until he could challenge Plagues upfront he may have been taught about creating life or any number of other things making him even more powerful



"any Sith before him" does not mean he couldnt have found another eventually. besides Plagues may have very well created Anaikin who had the potential to completely dwarf Sidious' power had he not been a little whiney b!tch which btw he wouldnt have been if brought up in the ways of the Sith. subterfuge can be taught



an excellent point actually. but how long did that revenge actually last? longer than the Jedi being dominant maybe? nope.

a more powerful Sith (im really thinking Anaikin here but maybe another could have been found/created) could have held on to that power longer than Sidious who was dumped over the balconey by punk a$$ Vader.

i know he came back after that but still... point is Sidious and Plagues for that matter put themselves before the entire Sith way which imo makes them not as much "Sithy" as Bane

Ass.

EDIT: You can say the word 'ass'.

thanks i wasnt sure

Bane wouldn't have been rolling over in his grave, he was condemned to the Void after he failed to take over Zannah's body.

OOOOOOHHHHHH YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Sucks for Bane.

Or....... maybe one day someone learns how to bring people back from the Void and Bane make a triumphant return!

Since, when "True Sith Lord" needs to have sense of honor and prove it in a fair fight? Sith are all about selfishness, ultimate goal is to gain power by any means, which in no way must be achieved fairly.

Plagueis and his master both were not vigilant enough. But Sidious was far more clever, than them. Did anyone manage to overthrow him? Vader tried to use Marek and Luke and failed. Later Luke tried to overthrow him and failed as well. All other Sith and Dark Jedi haven't even dared to confront him. Ancient Sith spirits stated that he is the greatest ever and the strongest ever, they didn't care by what means he achieved both power and galaxy dominance.

but by not proving they were not superior to their masters they very well could have weakened the Sith instead of strengthing it. for arguments sake lets say Plagues wasn't half as strong as his master yet killed him underhandedly.

would that make the Sith stronger? would that now make Plagues more powerful than his master? smarter maybe. craftier probably. but more powerful? nah son.

same goes with Sidious. im not saying they weren't as strong but for all we know they were very inferior to their masters and by taking power before their time they could have weakened the Sith alot which could be the reason the Jedi (mostly Luke) were able to fight back and kill the Sith off instead of the Sith holding that power forever

Originally posted by juggerman
smarter maybe. craftier probably. but more powerful? nah son.

But ultimately the first two qualities are what is most important. True battle between Siths and Jedis sint fought in lightsaber duels but with the mind.

And a real Sith Master wouldn't ever leave themselves so vulnerable. They would hide their place of recuperation from the apprentice.

Originally posted by Darth Ray Park
And a real Sith Master wouldn't ever leave themselves so vulnerable. They would hide their place of recuperation from the apprentice.

Didn't Sidious get Plagueis drunk first?

Originally posted by juggerman
but by not proving they were not superior to their masters they very well could have weakened the Sith instead of strengthing it. for arguments sake lets say Plagues wasn't half as strong as his master yet killed him underhandedly.

would that make the Sith stronger? would that now make Plagues more powerful than his master? smarter maybe. craftier probably. but more powerful? nah son.

same goes with Sidious. im not saying they weren't as strong but for all we know they were very inferior to their masters and by taking power before their time they could have weakened the Sith alot which could be the reason the Jedi (mostly Luke) were able to fight back and kill the Sith off instead of the Sith holding that power forever
Taking out master safe way doesn't prove they were less powerful or less strong. Sidious likely was more powerful already but didn't want to take any chances.
According to your statement worthy Sith supposed to follow Rule of Two but the thread includes Sith that didn't follow this ideology as well.
Simple facts why Sidious is worthy:
1. Sidious mastered all forms and was one of the deadliest combatant ever known, even when he was out of practice for over decade, he matched two Jedi that are considered among the best combatants in history.

2. The only Sith to dominate entire galaxy. Which shows him as one of the most clever and cunning Sith.

3. Became the most powerful Sith and demonstrated the most destructive Force ability.

4. The only Sith from Rule of Two that wasn't succeeded by his apprentice. And his apprentices include two strongest Force users to ever live: Anakin and Luke. Unlike Plagueis and other Sith, Palpatine never put himself in vulnerable position for assassination by another Sith.

5. Created the most destructive super weapon with Sith Alchemy and Sorcery. World Devastators - military couldn't do anything with them, thanks to Luke for acquiring codes to disable them.

Originally posted by juggerman
OOOOOOHHHHHH YEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!

Sucks for Bane.

Or....... maybe one day someone learns how to bring people back from the Void and Bane make a triumphant return! We already know he did. He went back in time and was reborn as the god that is Bandon.

Bane
Baneon
Bandon

Simple.

Originally posted by Pwned
We already know he did. He went back in time and was reborn as the god that is Bandon.

Yes, I see it now. This makes him the most cunning sith of all time, simply grow a goatee and no one will notice. Truly ingenius.

so we may never know if he was more powerful, less powerful or about equal right? just because he chose to take out Plagues doesnt mean he was ready to. he could have been weaker all around but took it anyway right?




yes but without the rule of two the Sith would have been weakened/destroyed long ago due to in fighting and whatnot. the rule of two is what made the Sith so powerful and deadly and made it possible to get their revenge. the ones who didnt live by it imo were selfish and trying to amass power for the sake of power instead of seriously trying to create Sith dominance



im not trying to say Sidious wasn't worthy i know he achieved what no other has and fulfilled Bane's legacy but the fact that he killed his master so cowardly really just rubs me the wrong way. it makes me think that he wasnt strong enogh to kill his master properly and if that was the case then maybe, just maybe, Plagues would have found another apprentice (most likely Anaikin) and he would have conquored like Sidious did tho being more powerful he would have held onto that control longer. maybe forever



Bane was fooled by Githany's poisoned lips. does that now mean she was the better Sith seeing as how her craftiness and smarts brought Bane to the brink of death? She still wouldn't have been able to do half of what Bane did just with those two skills



well i dont really consider Plauges to have a rightful lord of the sith either since he also killed his master in a cowardly way instead of proving he was superior. guess that cowardice rubbed off on Sidious

There was a Facebook Q&A with James Luceno, author of Darth Plagueis, months ago. This is what he had to say on the subject of Sidious vs. Plagueis:

It's kinda funny how few Sith really did get their position by killing their master (or at least, a powerful rival) in a direct fight.

Originally posted by juggerman

Bane was fooled by Githany's poisoned lips. does that now mean she was the better Sith seeing as how her craftiness and smarts brought Bane to the brink of death? She still wouldn't have been able to do half of what Bane did just with those two skills


Bane was almost undone by his own overconfidence. He knew Githany would use poison, he just didn't expect her to use two. Yet, he did what he had to in order to survive and carry on the Sith legacy.

Also Bane was incredibly impressed by that, so much so that he did consider her as his apprentice.

but my point was to Darth Ray Park that her cunning and smarts did not make her the better Sith. which means Sidious being sneaky and tricky doesnt auotomatically make him superior to Plagues

Bane's order did cherish sneakiness and being clever though. They were founded on the principle that those would be their main tools.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lol597WsBP1qcef94.gif

Truth. I'd say Sidious' weakness was not the means by which he took power either from his Master or within the Galaxy, it was in that he revelled in power for powers sake, not to further the Sith itself. Since we're talking about the greatest Sith, I'd say that hurts him, though no Sith was perfect, especially the more powerful he or she grew.

I think Bane was the closest thing to the perfect Sith there ever was.

1st and foremost he was the Sith'ari

2nd he created the path for the Sith to follow to be successful

3rd he was powerful as shizzle

4th he was sneaky as hell. (got the Brotherhood to destroy themselves, created rumors of Sith so they would believed just to be stuff of legends, ect)

5th and maybe most important he put the Sith cause before his own selfish desires (destroying the brotherhood instead of ruling them, training Zannah to userp him, not just body swapping and/or taking a new apprentice, not just living like a king and enjoying his power, ect)

imho anyone else would have failed where Bane flourished and created a new Sith order much smaller yet much more powerful than any other

In terms of trickery, Krayt (via Maladi) got the galaxy to turn against the Jedi and isolate them in one place for the Sith to shatter.

Originally posted by Q99
In terms of trickery, Krayt (via Maladi) got the galaxy to turn against the Jedi and isolate them in one place for the Sith to shatter. Didn't Palpatine do the same thing? Only instead of one place, it was thousands of places.

Yeah, I'm gonna say Sidious won in terms of trickery over Krayt. He was right under the Jedi's noses the entire time and they couldn't figure it out.

True that. Points for Sidious too.

A lot of Sith really end up reserving most of their treachery for other sith. Both Sids and Kry are somewhat exceptions in primarily being after Jedi.

I agree that Sideous was the most ideal. But we mustn't forget the sith emperor on Dromuund Kaas. Although I can't remember if he completely conquered the galaxy he he wait many millennia to build up his forces. He killed his mother AND father in cold blood. His eyes were as dark as the void, he had gathered all the power fullest sith of his time on one planet and drained all of their power and placed it in himself, being only a child at the time...

I'll mention Krayt's crowning act of treachery- He managed to convince one of his biggest enemies to release a bio-weapon on Coruscant that'd wipe out everyone on the planet in order to wipe out the Sith... except the disease was secretly designed so Sith were immune, so he'd do nothing but kill a trillion people and turn everyone again him, shattering any hope of cooperation against the Sith.

If it wasn't for a betrayal and the killing of said enemy, that'd have been checkmate.

I still think Bane's playing of the Sith against themselves to trap them in the Thought Bomb as well as Sidious' underhanded destruction of the Jedi and countless acts of mass murder and genocide both trump Krayt's swath of terror.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I still think Bane's playing of the Sith against themselves to trap them in the Thought Bomb as well as Sidious' underhanded destruction of the Jedi and countless acts of mass murder and genocide both trump Krayt's swath of terror.

Sidious, yes, but I will point out the 'targeted at enemies of the sith' thing.

Bane destroyed the Sith, Krayt got 'em on top, Sidious got them on top with no competition.

Originally posted by Q99
Sidious, yes, but I will point out the 'targeted at enemies of the sith' thing.

Bane destroyed the Sith, Krayt got 'em on top, Sidious got them on top with no competition.

"with no competition", I believe that GL himself states the "competetion" to be the golden age of the Jedi. I find Sidious's rise to the top as definitely the more impressive. In an era featuring Yoda and Mace Windu, amongst others, and with far less force-senstive allies he brought about the near utter destruction of the Jedi. Krayt had a Sith army at his disposal and the less impressive oppostion.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
"with no competition", I believe that GL himself states the "competetion" to be the golden age of the Jedi. I find Sidious's rise to the top as definitely the more impressive. In an era featuring Yoda and Mace Windu, amongst others, and with far less force-senstive allies he brought about the near utter destruction of the Jedi. Krayt had a Sith army at his disposal and the less impressive oppostion.


Well, that's what I mean, Sidious made it so by the time he was done, the competition wasn't there any more. He started with competition and was so successful there wasn't any.

I'm not disputing in the slightest that Sidious is king in this category I'm talking about 'ranks lower, but still impressive'. Shattered the Jedi, killed half their number, took over the galaxy, killed the Emperor, if it wasn't for a Knight turning against the Emperor would've killed Coruscant and the entire Empire-in-Exile.

Definitely Bane. No other Sith Lord has caused so much strife on these forums from what I can see. His ability to cause dissent is unparalleled.

You're really witty. I get a distinct Seth MacFarlane-vibe from you.

3GrV3OZdjP8

Also Bane had the cajones to basically stand up in front of the entire Sith following and flip them off. He KNEW Kaan could order the Brotherhood of Darkness to off Bane and yet he still defied them at every turn and openly challenged their ways.

I don't think anyone else in Bane's position would have done the same. Most other Sith Lords would have gone with the flow trying to advance in rank and hopefully one day being recognised. Even Sidious wouldn't dare oppose those above him without some sort of trickery in play. Bane opposed them all solely with his own prowess on his side.

Biggest balls go to Bane

Originally posted by REXXXX
I'm very proud of your abilities, Zampano. I always have been.
I'm always confused why stubbornness (or arrogance) is brought up when we discuss the merits of Sith. Palpatine being ruthless is one reason his character is interesting, and possibly even one factor in his success as a Sith. However, the same does not hold with Bane. Rather, Bane looks to have a mental condition like Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

Originally posted by juggerman
Also Bane had the cajones to basically stand up in front of the entire Sith following and flip them off. He KNEW Kaan could order the Brotherhood of Darkness to off Bane and yet he still defied them at every turn and openly challenged their ways.

I don't think anyone else in Bane's position would have done the same. Most other Sith Lords would have gone with the flow trying to advance in rank and hopefully one day being recognised. Even Sidious wouldn't dare oppose those above him without some sort of trickery in play. Bane opposed them all solely with his own prowess on his side.


Bane had a pretty good idea of the limits of Kaan's power and his needs, though. He knew Kaan still had use for him, and knew that Kaan didn't want to seem afraid of another Sith by ordering others to do his dirty work.

Well didn't he send Githany to kill Bane? What was stopping him from sending 6 more guys?

Exactly what you're implying, that subterfuge, not outright combat, was the only way any of the other Sith could have taken Bane.

If they ganged up on Bane they would have easily taken him. Which is why Bane basically telling Kaan to F*** off shows him having huge balls since Kaan could have ordered his death

Originally posted by juggerman
If they ganged up on Bane they would have easily taken him. Which is why Bane basically telling Kaan to F*** off shows him having huge balls since Kaan could have ordered his death

Kaan probably had a legitimate worry that that would've made him look weak in front of the other Sith, though.

And again, he had need of Bane.


Being Sith means you have to put up with people who want you dead. Heck, the RoT is based around that.

What did he need of Bane exactly? I don't remember. And he sent Githany to kill Bane so he wasn't too worried about looking weak.

Bane couldn't be certain Kaan wouldn't have had him killed for his blatant disrespect for the Brotherhood and for Kaan himself

Kaan was arrogant and believed he could still manipulate Bane back into the fold. After he sent Kas'im after him and Kas'im failed he believed what Bane said about realizing the error of his ways. Bane was literally the only one of the brotherhood who didn't succomb to Kaan's Force manipulation in the end, though he let Kaan believe his trick had worked after Bane sent him the info on the Thought Bomb and came back to the planet.

Whatever the case, it was clear that Bane inspired enough fear in the other Sith that they were afraid to confront him in open combat. It's not really all that different than a gang who won't take down one member because they fear him. Looking in from the outside it would be easy to say that ten of them have guns and the other is one man alone but it's a little different knowing that if everyone else doesn't stand with you when you take on the most powerful and ruthless killer in your midst that he can crush you like you're nothing, eh? There's also the fact that Kaan likely feared open combat with Bane because it might inspire other members of the Brotherhood to return to the old ways of preying on one another.