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War! The New Republic is crumbling under the ruthless attacks of the reborn Sith Lord, Count Dooku. As the shrewd son of Serenno rallies even more star systems to his once-lost cause, the Jedi struggle to hold the galaxy together. With his new droid army, Dooku launches another devastating attack, one aimed at the heart of the Reoublic.

As Coruscant prepares itself for another, terrible battle, Leia Organa steps forward to address the threat at hand. But in a daring move, the renegade Jedi Ventress sweeps into the assembly and kidnaps the one figure who could yet quell the civilian crisis at hand.

Now, two Jedi Knights are dispatched to rescue the Senator, and apprehend the terrorists who have yet again threatened the galaxy. As Luke Skywalker and the rest of the Jedi Order hold the enemy fleet at bay, the duo takes the oppurtunity to sneak aboard the Count's capital ship, and make their way to Leia's holding chamber. But as they enter the spacious hall, they are confronted. Not by Ventress, but by the Count himself, rejuvenated by Sith Magic thought to exist only in myth. Armed with his new body, but possessing all of his former power and skill, he meets two lightsabers with one of his own, and prepares to decide the fate of the galaxy. . .

Katarn and Korr should take this I hold Katarn near Dooku's level.

Do you have anything backing this up aside from your opinion?

Well the man was able to kill Jerec with very little training but other than that I just have a feel about him.

I feel the same. Katarn is near equal to Dooku alone. The fact that Jaden defeated Tavion, Ragnos' spirit, dozens/hundreds of Reborn makes me think he is good too.

For Katarn, he was chosen as the head combat instructor in the Jedi Praxeum for a reason. Chosen over people like Kyp, Jacen, and Corran. Now, this doesn't mean he is better than them(Cin Drallig would lose to Mace, Obi-wan, or Yoda), yet is means he is in the same group as them.

Gut instincts don't accomplish anything in debates.

Well Kyle has single-handedly infiltrated Danuta to capture the Death Star plans.

Katarn did go through Jerec, Desann, and a bunch of Reborn troops even when he was vastly outnumbered sometimes 4 to 1. Plus he got more power from the Valley of the Jedi. I think Kyle and Jaden can defeat Dooku.

Well, Dooku has stood up to Yoda and manhandled one of the most coordinated teams in history, one of that duo being potentially the most powerful Jedi ever. Not to mention that he's defeat Mace Windu, Anakin, and Obi-Wan in single combat. (Seperately, of course.) The Count has also led the Battle of Galidraan, and defeated the Mandalorians. Not to mention that he has a good two or three times the combined experience of these two in both Force and dueling practice.

And in this, he is not limited by age. He has the physical form of a twenty-five year old man in prime condition, but with more than eighty years worth of saber and Force knowledge.

I think it could go either way; while they most likely aren't as good a team as Anakin and Obi-Wan, they're close, and are both powerful in their own rights.

Dooku might just force choke then throw Kyle/Jaden like he did with Obi-Wan to even out the duel.

Katarn led several Battle in the Yuuzhan Vong War, and a Vong could probably take a Mandalorian, so Battle of Galidraan doesn't mean much.

He defeated Mace when Mace was maybe 20 years old. This Mace isn't really powerful, maybe inbetween AOTC and ROTS Anakin.

Also, Katarn has something like 25 years of experince, and Jaden has another 10 or so. Dooku has maybe 70 years of major training(things that take a older person longer times to learn. Anakin, because he was older, learned the first two years of Jedi training in less than a month.) Katarn and Jaden have the advantage in the fact that they have BETTER training. They have been fighting wars and learning about that force while at a more capable age(making each day of training more useful than it would be if trained at a younger age) then Dooku.

I like how Glentract assumes that Jaden Korr killed hundreds/dozens of GAME ENEMIES and this somehow attributes to his ability.

Wow, Carth must be leagues above all OT characters then since he can fight hundreds of Sith! Or maybe Luke from ROTJ the game is better since he can fight unlimited storm troopers!

I love how you ride the fence on that argument. Remember the Trayus Academy thread? Somehow the Exile killed only 10 or 12 Sith, but there are still hundreds there.


Also, looking over my last post, I think I should expand upon training when older being more effective then training from birth.

Notice people like Corran, Ulic, and Nomi. They all started their training as adults, yet advanced faster than any child Jedi because their minds are more developed.

Glentract, for the last ****ing time... the argument said IN THE INITAL POST, that the Sith numbered and shown in game in the academy exist for the sole purpose of the argument. Duh. This is not ****ing rocket science.

"Here's the scenario:

All Jedi that were on Geonosis are on Malachor V invading the Trayus Academy, they must fight their way through the Sith Assassins, Marauders, Apprentices, and Lords to get to the center, where the surviving Jedi must take down Darth Traya and Darth Malak. Can they do it?"


Where does it say that?

Glentract, did you play KOTOR II? They have specifically Sith Assassins, Marauders, Lords, etc. in the academy.

What else could it mean? Five sith sitting around and chanting? No.

I'm sorry, I don't see what your getting at.

I know you don't. You also think we can't use movie canon fight scenes as evidence. Put the pipe down, Glentract. It's not rocket science.

How the hell are you getting that every Sith the Exile fought in the game is there, but canonly the Exile only defeated 12?

Uh, because THE ARGUMENT (That's the thread idea we're working with) specifies that there ARE Sith in the ACADEMY. While canonically, he wouldn't have to fight nearly as many. It's a ****ing game, Glentract. Wake up.

And Star Wars is a movie. None of it is real.

It specifies that there are Sith, but it doesn't say all of them were there.

You're hopeless.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And Star Wars is a movie. None of it is real.

It specifies that there are Sith, but it doesn't say all of them were there.

WTF?

Yeah really. How did this conversation start? The thread's about Jaden + Kyle v.s. Dooku, now we're talking about off topic stuff....

Actually, Kyle and Jaden likely did have to fight through all those badguys.

If we take the JK:JO and JK:JA games as official, almost every time a reborn shows up, it triggers a voice over/cinematic, and for the most part, even gameplay wise, you are not allowed to advanced until that individual is defeated.

Because the games don't have motion reels to back them up, we can only assume that Kyle and Jaden did those events, as they were mandated and triggered.

If that was the case, I may just have to go against the good Count here.

I'm not sure, I don't think it makes sense that one person could kill hundreds of dark jedi or siths alone, still there ain't many other possibilities. Desann had hundreds if not thousands of his warriors to gain power at the valley of the jedi, then about he sent many of them to guard his ship, the one that Admiral Fyyar is on, the Doombringer or something. Anyway Kyle was alone on that ship and made it to the reactor core and escaped and it must have been heavily guarded. But as I said I'm not sure.

I don't doubt that Jaden and Kyle went through dozens of reborn, but if you want to get that technical, only a few of them were Twins or Masters; anything worth challenging.

Still it's a great accomplishment to kill a dark jedi who could stand up too Luke and many other force users with only around 2-3 days of training. This is NJO Kyle with much more training and experience.

Desaan had more than two days of training. And Luke didn't want to hurt him. He wished only to turn him, to bring him back to the Light. He would have thrashed Desaan had it been necessary. The Dark Jedi is good, but Luke is the best there is at this point.

Reborn are pretty much regular people with lightsabers. It's an acomplishment to defeat them, but not amazing. (Except, like was stated earlier, a Master).

I was talking about Kyle, he stood up too a dark jedi who stood up too Luke (Desann) and had only around 2-3 days of training. Desann had a trained for a long time but Kyle was fresh again after he had exiled himself from his powers. And yes I belive Luke would have beaten Desann but not thrashed. While he and Luke were fighting Luke was falling too the ground several times and barley managed too survive at different times. Then Desann pushed him away and thought he was dead.
Luke also said that neither of them should have encounterd him alone, now that he had gone to the valley of the jedi he would be more powerful than ever.
After the battle Kyle asked Luke why he fought Desann alone, Luke said he couldent feel him coming. Does this mean he would have ran if he did? I don't know.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And Star Wars is a movie. None of it is real.

It specifies that there are Sith, but it doesn't say all of them were there.

Just...Wanna...Reply...

Musn't...post...Star Wars...


ACK!

Gotta leave before I reply to something.

Did I just see Sorgo?

Anyway, Kyle and Jaden take this.

Maybe. Kyle and Jaden are a bit like OWK and Anakin if you think about it. especially if you turn to the dark side (emphesis on the master vs apprentice ***** fight at the end). Dooku will definetly put up an amazing fight, but I think the Jedi duo have this one.

Well the difference here is that unlike Obi and Anakin they (at least Kyle) use offensive force powers, even some that belongs to the dark side. Dooku will have a hard time with deflecting all that power considering that both Kyle and Jaden are very strong jedi.

Unlike Obi, you mean.. Anakin was majorly offensive too, even as jedi.

Not in force powers, did you ever see Anakin using an offensive force power against Dooku?

Depends on what you mean by your little force power..
It is a fact though that Anakin practiced Shienn wich is the most offensively based style of fighting.

Originally posted by Ianus
Uh, because THE ARGUMENT (That's the thread idea we're working with) specifies that there ARE Sith in the ACADEMY. While canonically, he wouldn't have to fight nearly as many. It's a ****ing game, Glentract. Wake up.

If its EU though, its as available to be used for evidence as the books. You have to defeat the enemies in order to win the game, and the game tells as much of a story as any of the star wars books. If you accept EU then you have to throw in that Katarn and Korr will have force heal on their side (which is a really really annoying power for Jedi to have, and i think it ruins the gameplay, you don't have to be very good, you just have to take time between fights) but it should be counted as EU as anything else.
I'm picking Dooku though, i think the movies show the most powerful Jedi of all time. EU picks up the bits and pieces, meaning if they were important enough to be in the movie, they are more powerful and more influential than those that weren't.

So you're saying Darth Maul was more powerful and influential than Ragnos?

Originally posted by overlord
Depends on what you mean by your little force power..
It is a fact though that Anakin practiced Shienn wich is the most offensively based style of fighting.


Anakin and Obi-Wan was offensive against Dooku (at least Anakin) but they didn't use offensive force powers. Actually, neither of them used the force when they battled him. So if Anakin used an offensive style as he did, sure but that's not what I meant, I simply meant force powers like lightning, grip etc.

So to come back on your original post; you suggest Dooku is going to get force choked or fried by lightning? I think those abilities will hardly help during a duel.
Unless Dooku comes running in to the battlefield like a moron of course like Anakin.

Well I think it will be a hard match for him to parry both a force lightning and a grip at the same time by two powerful jedi. Kyle was around the top 10 in NJO and Jaden was just a little below I think. I never said they would kill him with it but he will have a hard time, probably get tuckerd out.

Obviously Katarn and Jaden have the upperhand on this one.Morever unlike the anakin-obi-wan duo who faced dooku in aotc they have the advantage of using the dark side of the force.

Originally posted by Illustrious
Actually, Kyle and Jaden likely did have to fight through all those badguys.

If we take the JK:JO and JK:JA games as official, almost every time a reborn shows up, it triggers a voice over/cinematic, and for the most part, even gameplay wise, you are not allowed to advanced until that individual is defeated.

Because the games don't have motion reels to back them up, we can only assume that Kyle and Jaden did those events, as they were mandated and triggered.

If that was the case, I may just have to go against the good Count here.

LOLZ! Dooku killed Mace, Kenobi, Cin, Serra, Anakin and Vader Mechanical on the ROTS game.

He wins.

Gack! Teh Cruelty1!!

By the time of NJO....Kyle and Jaden COULD take Dooku,b ut I'm conflicted on this....Dooku owns hard though

bump

Originally posted by Lightsnake
By the time of NJO....Kyle and Jaden COULD take Dooku,b ut I'm conflicted on this....Dooku owns hard though

Classic... so classic. I'm almost sad.

NJO team wins however.

Dooku, his superior skill and mastery of the Force gives him the win.

NJO team, yeah.

Kyle could possibly take Dooku on his own tbh, adding Jaden ensures victory for the Jedi.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Kyle could possibly take Dooku on his own
http://cdn-media-2.lifehack.org/wp-content/files/2015/02/wtf-kanye.gif

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
http://cdn-media-2.lifehack.org/wp-content/files/2015/02/wtf-kanye.gif I see Kyle and Dooku as pretty much equal in almost every respect. I can see a fight between them going either way, hence my opinion that Kyle might be able to do it on his own; maybe. Adding Jaden gives enough of an edge imo that the Jedi will win.