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Can the USA ever build our fences high enough to keep illegal immigrants out? Constant burdens with illegal immigrants which cost USA significant funds and man power.......

In a state where security is critical supposedly and healthcare as well as national deficit what is a humane way to deal with this overwhelming burden to the US homeland?

Put a big glass roof over the top.

Two words -Automated Guns.

Like what Israel is trying to do?

Originally posted by BackFire
Two words -Automated Guns.


LOL that is funny

However in a world where everyone cries save the tortured how well do you think that would fly

I can see it now

"USA has adopted the Mexican US border as its new target range for innocent aliens"


Yes Debbiejo similar to that.

Originally posted by BackFire
Two words -Automated Guns.

yeah...like those ones in aliens...the remote guns...hundreds of the bastards right along the border...put them on the canadian border while you're at it

Sorry, the concept just makes me laugh..... so illegal immigrants are an overwhelming burden? The US's economy could be crippled by it? The terrorists are going about it the wrong way it seems, to effect the US more they should just want to live there, not want to hurt it.

Just out of interest, what burdens are these that illegal immigrants put on the US?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Just out of interest, what burdens are these that illegal immigrants put on the US?


They do us some favors by taking on jobs many US workers won't take...


Though I really do feel we all should go through due process...no exclusions....My grandparents had to do it...

True, true, the law is necessary.

But the whole job aspect, I don't see that as a burden, I mean it's a job as US citizen wont take or doesn't want (or wont do properly) how can they complain if an immigrant takes it (though I feel sorry for immigrants, illegal or otherwise that are forced down such career paths.) As you said, it seems more like a favour.

Those Mexican immmigrants have it nasty bad down there...God, they work for a big plant that relocated from the US...make nothing as wages and live in little shacks..more like wooden boxes.....really sad.

Yes, it's a terrible shame the way people can be treated by big business. It's understandable really why so many people want to immigrate to places they think are better (only in reality the improvement is often not as great as one expects)

Illegal Immigrants are a significant problem.....roughly 75% of all immigrants pass through the US southern border.

On average the immigrants have a lower education level, pay less in tax, still consume US resources (healthcare, cost of children) and cost billions of dollars. Heck even when they get a green card they don't have to pay income tax most of the time.

In the mediterranean its different.

As Africans live in costraints they know that there is no possibility of getting a life unless they make it to Europe. If they remain in their African country of origin, they know that they will die. So attempting to make it to Europe is a better chance.

They migrate across the sub-saharian regions as they pit-stop in towns and villages.Every stop is done to regenerate not only physical energy but also to work for food and money.

It takes them more than a year to get to the countries that have shores on the Mediterranean. Some in Algeria, some in Libya, Morocco and Tunisia. They know that they have survived a journey through the desert that had shortened their numbers due to lack of food and dehydration. Many are dead in the sands and rocks.

Now its Europe. Its warranted that if they would like to get a boat, they must work for about six months up to a year to save up $1000. and thats per person. and even if you have the money, there is a long waiting list.

More of them die from sickness and malnourishment. Some are also killed my ruthless employers.

The boat trip is not exactly what any one imagines. The old wooden boat chugging towards Sicily is packed to almost triple its maximum capacity with scores of people of different nationalities and with merely a foot between the boat's edge and the waterline. There is the risk of capsizing in bad weather, engine failure causing the immigrants to be stranded for days. Most of these Africans never saw the sea so they cannot swim. Its easy to drown.

And thousands are feared to have drownded considering that at least a boat a day leaves African coasts.

Sorry that was a bit off-topic. We were talking about fences right ?

I am all for the great gasoline river. Just set a flame to it and let the immigrants burn.

Large fences with sniper towers positioned every half mile or so would be a step in the right direction.

So would fixing up economies be a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by GCG
So would fixing up economies be a step in the right direction.
We should give the migrant workers the job of erecting the fences and towers to keep them out.

Originally posted by FeceMan
We should give the migrant workers the job of erecting the fences and towers to keep them out.


LOL and also make sure we pay them mexican labor wages too.....

Originally posted by FeceMan
We should give the migrant workers the job of erecting the fences and towers to keep them out.

So your ancestors must have been native americans for you to speak agains immigrants ?

Whether it be in jest or not, it's odd (and a little disconcerting) that a few people make the joke that killing people or guns is the answer, and others find that really entertaining.

Originally posted by GCG
So your ancestors must have been native americans for you to speak agains immigrants ?

solid point

Originally posted by GCG
So your ancestors must have been native americans for you to speak agains immigrants ?
We both know the answer to that, and we both know that illegal immigrants aren't being sent to settle the U.S. (Not that it would matter.)
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Whether it be in jest or not, it's odd (and a little disconcerting) that a few people make the joke that killing people or guns is the answer, and others find that really entertaining.
Oh, please. Killing humor is quite prevalent today. Do you really think I would find it funny to watch snipers blast the hell out of a group of Mexicans trying to cross the border?

Also, you seem to think my suggestion was made jokingly.

Originally posted by FeceMan
We both know the answer to that, and we both know that illegal immigrants aren't being sent to settle the U.S. (Not that it would matter.)


Being sent ?

Oh well ; you understood what I meant. But its funny this thread came right after the 'Thanksgiving' celebration.

Oh. And BTW. The killing of immigrants is already happening in the Spanish enclaves in morocco

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40857000/gif/_40857238_morocco_picture.gif

Originally posted by soleran30
On average the immigrants have a lower education level, pay less in tax, still consume US resources (healthcare, cost of children) and cost billions of dollars. Heck even when they get a green card they don't have to pay income tax most of the time.

Are we talking normal, legal immigrants here, or illegal immigrants - I mean there is no universal healthcare in the US for its own citizens; I find it hard to believe an illegal immigrant would be "consuming US resources." And cost of children? What is that?

And paying less in tax eh? If I was cynical I would comment on the small percentage of tax paid by the richest people in the US (or any nation for that matter.) I can well and truly see how some illegal immigrant with little or nothing is really being unfair by not paying a heap of tax.

And the only area I see them costing billions is in all the security measures put up to keep them out. Illegal immigrants are often hired in jobs far below the minimum wage, really US business profits from the plight of these poor, desperate individuals, who will take anything they can get in order for them and their families to survive "in a nation of opportunity and freedom."

One way to stop them coming is to force those industries that hire them at such low wages to pay them more.... then they would have no motivation to hire cheap illegal immigrant labor, and desperate immigrants would have no work, and as such them might think twice before crossing the border and inflicting so much hurt upon the ailing US economy.

Another, far better way, would be if there was no reason why they should want to leave their own country, by improving their economies, living standards and the like. You know what they say, prevention is better then a cure.

And building big fences never works, throughout history, from the Chinese to the Nazis, the bigger the fence, the more it costs and the longer it takes to build, the more maintenance it needs and the worse it makes you look - and really, lets be honest, the US has a pretty bad reputation on the world stage, and nothing would confirm that more for people then if you surrounded you country with a massive fence (though I might pay money to see George W. in a cage like a monkey.) And even more important, no matter how high the fence, people will usually find a way around it, under it or over it.

There is no Universal Healthercare Imperial however people can go to the ER and get treatment they aren't turned away.....

Alot of the workers pay no tax's so there is a burden......

Alot will have a baby on US soil and it is now a citizen

Many will send their underage child to the US and we don't turn them away if unaccompanied.

Stop paying migrant workers andmake unemployed people work in the US

But that what I don't get - how many go to the ER and get all this free treatment (I had heard people get a bill for the work that is done there) and how does one know how many illegal immigrants use it - I mean surely they don't tell people...

And that is something that can be done, but it's not the immigrants fault they get hired, it's the employers, and maybe the US citizen who doesn't want the job.

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL and also make sure we pay them mexican labor wages too.....

wow, you're sense of humour is wicked.

I don't really know a lot about immigrations but I really feel bad for all those mexicans who have to take desperate measures to get to the US.
But, I mean come on everyone knows what it's like down in Mexico, these people would not be taking this measures if they didn't really need it, most of the jobs they take in the US are jobs americans don't want anyway!
And yeah the whole 'respect the law' issue is solid but, how can anyone knowing what these people's lifestyles are in Mexico say that they should go the whole immigration proccess, it's IMPOSSIBLE for poor mexicans to get 'legally' in the United States, I personally think US immigration laws are way to strict for these kinds of people... America's the only chance they got to have a goddamn roof over their heads.

Anyway, as I said I don't know a lot about the subject, but with the little knowledge I have... that's how I feel.

WOW is Mexico the only country down there. Shit im tired of people always saying Mexico.

Mexico is not the only country with immigrants crossing to the US everyday.

Originally posted by El_NINO
WOW is Mexico the only country down there. Shit im tired of people always saying Mexico.

Mexico is not the only country with immigrants crossing to the US everyday.


Lol well 75% of undocumented Illegal immigrants cross the US southern border and well that would be Mexico

Originally posted by El_NINO
WOW is Mexico the only country down there. Shit im tired of people always saying Mexico.

Mexico is not the only country with immigrants crossing to the US everyday.
I know that, I am from 'down there' only that really down there.
I know it's wrong to generalize but when I say Mexico I do mean those poor central american countries and Mexico.

Originally posted by soleran30
Lol well 75% of undocumented Illegal immigrants cross the US southern border and well that would be Mexico

LMAO... Mexico just happens to be right next to the US *sigh*

Why don't the mexican people wana live in mexico?

Because the USA is the land of the free unless you are an Illegal Imigrant

could it be that the USA has systematically crippled mec-ex-co for ages now..?

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
could it be that the USA has systematically crippled mec-ex-co for ages now..?


Could it also be an Inept Govt and craptastic economical system

While that is fine and dandy that certainly doesn't address the issues of me as a citizen of USA paying tax's for their benefit. USA certainly isn't the only country in the world to trade with.......If they cannot go about getting a green card and the whole process then get them out.


didn't you post in the ALI thread the past doesn't equal the future......hmm well here's a good start then.

yes... the past event shouldn't reoccur...
But past injustices will shine through and cause controversy in the future.. You don't have to look too far to understand... And you know as well as I do that the USA stomps around the globe giving money to corrupt countries so they can buy guns and start wars... just soo USA can get more oil...

Usa has deliberate tipped countries into economic ruin so it could have a strangle hold on the country... mexico is one of those countries...

ask yourself this.... What would you do if you were a mexican???

Ask yourself if this how should the fences be?

Originally posted by soleran30
Ask yourself if this how should the fences be?

that doesn't make sense... please retype...

Sure the original piece wasn't .......LOOK at the Damage the USA has done to Mexico.........it was look at the current US policy on immigration and what can we do to control illegal immigrants.

if you don't cure the source of the poison the after effects will keep coming back...

Until Mexico is a good place to live people will keep trying to boarder hop...

Yes and guess what its not the USA's responsibility to fix Mexico's problem now is it.......as it is workers from Mexico already receive a HUGE benefit getting to work here illegally and even if they are deported jail/holding cells in the USA is better 3 squares and a cot. They don't have tax's, go to the ER FREE care etc etc etc heaven forbid they should have a child here!

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
True, true, the law is necessary.

But the whole job aspect, I don't see that as a burden, I mean it's a job as US citizen wont take or doesn't want (or wont do properly) how can they complain if an immigrant takes it (though I feel sorry for immigrants, illegal or otherwise that are forced down such career paths.) As you said, it seems more like a favour. They jobs away from kids, which is a little niche in it's own.

Well the illegal immigrants which come up and work and have a good family life and stay out of trouble are fine up here in Canada. However a lot of criminals are coming in putting a bad image on West Indians and Blacks here in Canada and really messing up the once peaceful city of Toronto.

Also the probelm with your idea Kidrock is that what happens if the people that were getting killed were women and children. That makes the US a country as great as China.

Mexico is fine, people just want to give their children a better living, but what you people fail to see is that not everyone who crosses to the US from Mexico are not mexicans. Sure some dont have any documents but it doesnt mean their mexican. Heck if it wasnt for any immigrants the US would be nothing.

El Nino I do recognize that the immigrants which come across the southern border aren't all mexican. I did mention that 75% come across that border so any nationality will work.

Absolutely about giving children a better tomorrow just do it within the bounds of the US legal system.

erm... do you realise how many countries the US has had a negative effect on?? how is it not there responceablity to fix the problems they have started??

Perhaps I should steal off you.. then I don't have to worry about jail time... after all its not my responcability to fix the mess I've created....

here is a great time to take resoponsibility themselves lol yeah the USA has destroyed so many countries......whatever......

I will have to find the source but I will post some of the more interesting countries tomorrow...

But basicaly any country that ends in 'stan the tryant of a dictator has been kept in power by usa...
The current biggest "terrorists" were once CIA employies... osama was trainned and paided by them, So was sadam....

And Bush is Cheney's dog.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I will have to find the source but I will post some of the more interesting countries tomorrow...

But basicaly any country that ends in 'stan the tryant of a dictator has been kept in power by usa...
The current biggest "terrorists" were once CIA employies... osama was trainned and paided by them, So was sadam....
That's probably Bush's fault.

i think mexicans should come and work in america be given an immigrant card and be taxed.It'll help the economy

Anyone who thinks cutting off all the illegal immigration will solve anything, (Dealing with todays economy and situations of course, as if, we shut down the border leak free tommorow) is deluding themselves.

Illegal Immigrants make up the bottom end of the work force. They do the meanial jobs that no-one else wants and the current economy depends on them. In California for example, we are, contrary to popular belief, an agricultural state. The entire middle of the state is all farmland, and anyone who has driven up the 5 can attest to that. Now the majority of these farms are serviced by illegal immigrants, the do the harvesting the planting, all the grunt work. Now if we were to cut all of this out, California's economy would collapse and we would be up a creek.

Now I'm not saying that this cannot be solved. But it will require some changing of things. First of all, I would be in favor of easier green cards and a looser border, if not being able to get a green card isn't stopping then, why should we fight it? if they come in legally, they pay taxes, but products, and help the economy more, Then we can also help them by making sure they are paid minimum wage or above and such. It would be a two way street, but everone is so xenophobic, Immigrants are bad! That perception needs to chance, and it will as the illegal immigrants still keep coming no matter what you try and do.

I agree it should be easier to obtain legal residency in the US, but illegals ARE hurting us in the meantime. I always hear how immigrants take all these jobs that "nobody wants." Says who? Americans are too good to do low skilled jobs now? Personally my mom cleans houses, an industry that's dominated by immigrant labor, so i'm not buying the fact that americans don't want those jobs. I do, and I know others who do too. And the fact of the matter is, nobody wants to hire an american when they can hire an illegal to do the same job for below minimum.

In the long run, labor applies to the basic rules of supply and demand. With an overwhelming supply of unskilled laborers who will work for an illegal rate with no benefits, there's a much smaller demand to hire americans for these jobs. And who wins in the long run? I could use that job to make an actual living, at least minimum wage, as oppose to an immigrant who works extreme hours at a shitty job just to live in basically the same kind of poverty they had back in his homeland.

I have nothing personal against these people.. i live in an area with a huge amount of immigrants and am friends with many of them.. but i still think they are making things worse.

Once again, young people would like to work... I know I wuld, but any job that's possible to acquire without any form of degree's is taken up by... oh lookie here, a friggin' mexican. Of course, that's not to say that the mexicans are the only illegal immigrants, or that every mexican is here illegally.

Originally posted by soleran30
Yes and guess what its not the USA's responsibility to fix Mexico's problem now is it.......as it is workers from Mexico already receive a HUGE benefit getting to work here illegally and even if they are deported jail/holding cells in the USA is better 3 squares and a cot. They don't have tax's, go to the ER FREE care etc etc etc heaven forbid they should have a child here!

you ****ing ugghhh!!!!!!! mexicans would help the economy more than anything you.............................................. ughh.....this shows how ignorant you are...give the mexicans that want to come over a card... tax them, charge them a fee for the card and they get no benefits..that would solve the problem in my opinion...

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Once again, young people would like to work... I know I wuld, but any job that's possible to acquire without any form of degree's is taken up by... oh lookie here, a friggin' mexican. Of course, that's not to say that the mexicans are the only illegal immigrants, or that every mexican is here illegally.


The mexicans do the jobs you americans think yall are too good for ..or the mexicans will work for lower wages than americans...americans want to work for what they think they are worth while the mexicans are just trying to make life better for themselves and their family....i can't believe you just said that snoopbert knowing that i'm half mexican!

Originally posted by AdventChild
you ****ing ugghhh!!!!!!! mexicans would help the economy more than anything you.............................................. ughh.....this shows how ignorant you are...give the mexicans that want to come over a card... tax them, charge them a fee for the card and they get no benefits..that would solve the problem in my opinion...


LOL alot of anger little grasshopper I never said to not let them over but to let them and make them do it legally.

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL alot of anger little grasshopper I never said to not let them over but to let them and make them do it legally.
oh ok then we're kool, i agree on that...

Originally posted by AdventChild
The mexicans do the jobs you americans think yall are too good for ..or the mexicans will work for lower wages than americans...americans want to work for what they think they are worth while the mexicans are just trying to make life better for themselves and their family....i can't believe you just said that snoopbert knowing that i'm half mexican! What we think we're worth? You make it sound like we charge some outlandish rate.. I've never heard anyone speak of minimum wage in such a high esteem.

Immigrants would be worth that rate too if only they'd go through the proper procedures instead of just hopping the fence...

think about it....
If the mexicans sign up... then they will have to pay taxes and other costs... this will cut into the wage... Then it wouldn't be worth doing...

The farmers probably couldn't pay them the correct wage as there buisness wouldn't make enough profit... then the whole system will collapse..

so the best method is to leave it as it is...
Govenment: We don't like boarder crossers... but we don't wana do anything about it...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
think about it....
If the mexicans sign up... then they will have to pay taxes and other costs... this will cut into the wage... Then it wouldn't be worth doing...

The farmers probably couldn't pay them the correct wage as there buisness wouldn't make enough profit... then the whole system will collapse..

so the best method is to leave it as it is...
Govenment: We don't like boarder crossers... but we don't wana do anything about it...

Yeah turn the blind eye .........ignore the problem thats the solution.......

is that how you pay your bills too? Taking action is the only way to achieve results sitting back and letting things occur is bound to do one thing...........nothing yup literally pay bills on that thought

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
think about it....
If the mexicans sign up... then they will have to pay taxes and other costs... this will cut into the wage... Then it wouldn't be worth doing...

The farmers probably couldn't pay them the correct wage as there buisness wouldn't make enough profit... then the whole system will collapse..

so the best method is to leave it as it is...
Govenment: We don't like boarder crossers... but we don't wana do anything about it... So you're saying the only way to make a profit is by breaking the law? I doubt it.. plenty of companies manage to not go under without illegal workers, why is farming any different? Maybe they wouldn't be making as big of profits as they currently are, but to say the "system would collapse" is a bit of an overstatement, wouldn't you think? And maybe they would make as big a profit.. maybe if they'd pay for skilled workers the farm would be run more effectively and the favor would be returned.. I know at the store I work at they could easily do better if they'd hire more effective workers.

You have to grasp a bigger picture...

There is no simple easy solution... Don't bring bad analogies into this, it isn't that simple a decision..

If they pay them more the farmer has to charge more... Then the supermarket doesn't wana buy the farmers goods cause its cheaper to import the goods...

Effective people don't wana do low grade jobs... they tend to have ambitions...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
You have to grasp a bigger picture...

There is no simple easy solution... Don't bring bad analogies into this, it isn't that simple a decision..

If they pay them more the farmer has to charge more... Then the supermarket doesn't wana buy the farmers goods cause its cheaper to import the goods...

Effective people don't wana do low grade jobs... they tend to have ambitions...


Don't group everyone into a group you want to associate with. Let's understand your economic model here a second. So your saying take money away from the Gov't in taxes so a product can in turn be produced at a more economic rate and in turn everyone gets to pay extra tax's for the consumption and services that the ILLEGAL immigrants use.

You keep speaking of jobs no one else will take and let them have them........a significant portion of the illegal immigrants aren't coming here to work live and raise a family but to work and take the ALMIGHTY dollar back to say mexico where the pesso has less value! Please if you really want to get into an economic discussion don't use this "jobs no one else wants" piece. If you want a big picture look beyond the picture you paint there are several possible outcomes.

Inviting alot of people into the USA that don't even have a highschool education places more burden on society as the average income is significantly lower then one with education and everyone suffers except the uneducated who suck up all resources in the USA not available in Mexico.

Originally posted by AdventChild
The mexicans do the jobs you americans think yall are too good for ..or the mexicans will work for lower wages than americans...americans want to work for what they think they are worth while the mexicans are just trying to make life better for themselves and their family....i can't believe you just said that snoopbert knowing that i'm half mexican! So you're ashamed of your race? That's not the point and you just blatantly ignored mine. Twenty years ago, those jobs were used as stepping stones for kids getting out of or stil in High School too get onto a better life. My dad used to work at a metallurgy company cleaning up the floors.... a job no one wanted, but he did it until he could buy a small place in Seattle. Now, one kid in my school my age has a job and that's because he got lucky as his parents know someone. Everyone in my grade is a year older than me by the way, so it is legal for them to work. Deport the illegal immigrants back to where they came from... and while we're at it, stay out of their business, if our government can do it.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
You have to grasp a bigger picture...

There is no simple easy solution... Don't bring bad analogies into this, it isn't that simple a decision..

If they pay them more the farmer has to charge more... Then the supermarket doesn't wana buy the farmers goods cause its cheaper to import the goods...

Effective people don't wana do low grade jobs... they tend to have ambitions... What analogy?

More effective workers = more crops yeilded in a more timely matter. The price would not necessarily be effected in a negative way. And plenty of people who are effective workers are in low grade jobs.. who do you think makes up the majority of the work force? You should try not to generalize so much..

What these farms do is exploit the illegal immigrant's situation, just like sweatshop owners in 3rd world countries. I'm sorry but I don't see the price of oranges going up as a valid reason to allow these people to continue to break the law.

Originally posted by soleran30
Let's understand your economic model here a second. So your saying take money away from the Gov't in taxes so a product can in turn be produced at a more economic rate and in turn everyone gets to pay extra tax's for the consumption and services that the ILLEGAL immigrants use.

What you gonner use those taxes on??? more weapons? do you know how much your defence(lol... More like offence) budget is?? you could solve most world problems with it....

Originally posted by soleran30
You keep speaking of jobs no one else will take and let them have them.........
Where did I say that????
Tell me, Do you wana spend the rest of your life doing an border hopper job???

Originally posted by soleran30
a significant portion of the illegal immigrants aren't coming here to work live and raise a family but to work and take the ALMIGHTY dollar back to say mexico where the pesso has less value! Please if you really want to get into an economic discussion don't use this "jobs no one else wants" piece. If you want a big picture look beyond the picture you paint there are several possible outcomes.
Thats the point fool... If they paided taxes it wouldn't be worth working in usa...

Originally posted by soleran30
Inviting alot of people into the USA that don't even have a highschool education places more burden on society as the average income is significantly lower then one with education and everyone suffers except the uneducated who suck up all resources in the USA not available in Mexico.

Lol.... Please expand on this.... I know its gonner be funny....

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
What analogy?
Originally posted by soleran30
Yeah turn the blind eye .........ignore the problem thats the solution.. is that how you pay your bills too? Taking action is the only way to achieve results sitting back and letting things occur is bound to do one thing...........nothing yup literally pay bills on that thought
if thats not an analogy..... well.... erm...

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
More effective workers = more crops yeilded in a more timely matter. The price would not necessarily be effected in a negative way. And plenty of people who are effective workers are in low grade jobs.. who do you think makes up the majority of the work force? You should try not to generalize so much..
Lol... It doesn't require a genius to become an effective farmer.. Or any other low grade jobs... I'm sure they become pros after a week or two..

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
What these farms do is exploit the illegal immigrant's situation, just like sweatshop owners in 3rd world countries. I'm sorry but I don't see the price of oranges going up as a valid reason to allow these people to continue to break the law.
Immigrants are exploiting the situation as well...
Why don't you look into "Fair trade" items...
In africa people are given a less then fair price for there goods... if they charge a fair price they can't compete in the shops... The prices rise a bit ya see... Same would happen if they paided immagrants fair.... Your hurting the immagrants in the long run...

Yeah know I have yet to see ANY significant fact that you have brought to the table to justify any ILLEGAL immigration. I have read alot of what you FEEL should be done and is right.

Apparently you are not in the USA right now so wherever you get your nonsense from it at least amuses me. These people are illegal, the problems that they have in their country isn't my concern.......since you are so up on it why don't you create some organization to employee these poor people to help with their lives

I am certainly not here to give you a socio-economic lesson. Go to school read more and when you can validate your pieces without some rhetoric you hear please by all means come back and lets discuss this. Until then you don't have a good grasp on this topic in my opinion.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
if thats not an analogy..... well.... erm... Oh, I thought you were responding to me.


Where did I say anything about intellect? Fact of the matter is, you get what you pay for. I'm not suggesting that low grade jobs should be highly selective.. just that they only hire people at decent wages who deserve those wages and will get the job done correctly.. usually if you get illegals to work for you you're paying for some pretty unskilled workers who are cheap but less effective. I say this mostly from personal experience.


But that's the thing.. those shops have to worry about competition. Immigrants ARE the competition. They are the ones who drive down the wages, if they were payed fairly (as in minimum wage, which it's illegal to go below) it'd be better for everyone.

You think your country is the only one with immigration???

You crack me up... you seem soo closed minded... We all know immigration is wrong... If it was such a simple case as Shutting the boarders down.. don't you think they would have done it already??? Your country can have forces active in 10 odd countries.. But not control your own boarders??? lol.....

Point is you can't expect people to live crappy lives and not try to better themselves... If mexicans didn't boarder hop their country would fall apart...

What do you do for a living soleran?? are mexicans a threat to your job security??

Please Mr.knowitall... Fill me in with your solution to the problem....It should be good!!
You did yourself in with
"Inviting alot of people into the USA that don't even have a highschool education places more burden on society as the average income is significantly lower then one with education and everyone suffers except the uneducated who suck up all resources in the USA not available in Mexico. "
please expand on this jem....

Stop trying to make this personal... Can you please tell me how you have a better grasp on the opinion then me???

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Where did I say anything about intellect? Fact of the matter is, you get what you pay for. I'm not suggesting that low grade jobs should be highly selective.. just that they only hire people at decent wages who deserve those wages and will get the job done correctly.. usually if you get illegals to work for you you're paying for some pretty unskilled workers who are cheap but less effective. I say this mostly from personal experience.

But that's the thing.. those shops have to worry about competition. Immigrants ARE the competition. They are the ones who drive down the wages, if they were payed fairly (as in minimum wage, which it's illegal to go below) it'd be better for everyone.

After a week or 2 they will be skilled enough for the job... or how long do you think it would take to raise there skills to a suitable lvl???

If Immigrants got a fair wage... Farmers would have to charge more.. Shops Could import the veg(or whatever) at a cheaper price... OR will have to charge more...
Not to mention immigrants will have to pay taxes.. so they will be less likely to want the jobs...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
You crack me up... you seem soo closed minded... We all know immigration is wrong... If it was such a simple case as Shutting the boarders down.. don't you think they would have done it already??? Your country can have forces active in 10 odd countries.. But not control your own boarders??? lol..... I know this wasn't address to me.. but perhaps that's because big businesses who benefit from cheap labor are more powerful than the working class americans who feel the negative side effects?

and thats the circle of life their my friend...

If you close them... your doomed...
if you open them too much... your doomed...

Thats why the current situation kinda works...

I don't think immigration is wrong......no where have I said that.

If the immigrant doesn't want to be legal fine deport them......I pay tax's they don't. Tell me where its posted that its the job of the USA to make their lives better.....its not.

Placing live people at the borders isn't the solution, hence the fence idea!

The UK doesn't get near the illegal immigrants the USA does. See the education piece is HUGE. Now had you looked up average wages paid in the USA based upon education then you might have a better understanding of what I was saying in that the lower education immigrants on average cost the USA more in tax dollars. The reason is they use more social programs.

So what do illegal immigrants cost? Well they get emergency room care whether they can pay or not, paid in US dollars which has a greater converstion rate to pessos in mexico, most don't speak english so language barrier to the average citizen.

A huge ass fence like Israel has put up would HAVE A significant impact on how many people can cross.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
After a week or 2 they will be skilled enough for the job... or how long do you think it would take to raise there skills to a suitable lvl???

If Immigrants got a fair wage... Farmers would have to charge more.. Shops Could import the veg(or whatever) at a cheaper price... OR will have to charge more...
Not to mention immigrants will have to pay taxes.. so they will be less likely to want the jobs... Generally, the ones willing to work for below minimum aren't effective workers at all. I don't know if it's necessarily skill level, laziness or whatnot, but you don't get the same quality labor from someone you pay under minimum as you would for someone you pay 7 bucks an hour. Maybe it's just a matter if you get out what you put in. You treat the workers like shit and they could give a **** about your business.. you treat them as a standard worker would expect to be treated and they'll worry more of losing their job, and they'll want to do better more seeing that there's more room for advancement when you're not an illegal immigrant.

There are illegals that charge 12 $ and hour to do yard work, I know many of them. Obviously, they're effective workers. Someone who can't even get the company to pay them minimum wage is obviously not.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
and thats the circle of life their my friend...

If you close them... your doomed...
if you open them too much... your doomed...

Thats why the current situation kinda works... Perhaps.. but my point was that illegals do hurt working class Americans, and saying that "nobody wants those jobs besides immigrants" just leads me to believe that people who say that are spoiled.

I'm not advocating shutting down the boarders.. i believe legal residency should be easier to obtain.. I'm just stating my problem with illegal aliens in the work force.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
So you're ashamed of your race? That's not the point and you just blatantly ignored mine. Twenty years ago, those jobs were used as stepping stones for kids getting out of or stil in High School too get onto a better life. My dad used to work at a metallurgy company cleaning up the floors.... a job no one wanted, but he did it until he could buy a small place in Seattle. Now, one kid in my school my age has a job and that's because he got lucky as his parents know someone. Everyone in my grade is a year older than me by the way, so it is legal for them to work. Deport the illegal immigrants back to where they came from... and while we're at it, stay out of their business, if our government can do it.
really is it the immigrants that's really hurting our economy?...think about it....mexicans in my personally opinion are the hardest worker so it makes sense for employers to hire them...oh and when i mean employers i mean farmers...and when i mean jobs for mexicans to work at i mean the fields and landscaping companies.....I'm sure it's not an americans first choice to work at the fields picking crops..I'm thinking americans would rather work at mcdonalds or something along those lines....

Originally posted by AdventChild
really is it the immigrants that's really hurting our economy?...think about it....mexicans in my personally opinion are the hardest worker so it makes sense for employers to hire them...oh and when i mean employers i mean farmers...and when i mean jobs for mexicans to work at i mean the fields and landscaping companies.....I'm sure it's not an americans first choice to work at the fields picking crops..I'm thinking americans would rather work at mcdonalds or something along those lines.... No point in debating with you, you can't seem to grasp the fact that the "not-wanted" jobs, including the ones you named were once filled with children that are now filled with a bunch of under-paid illegal immigrants.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
No point in debating with you, you can't seem to grasp the fact that the "not-wanted" jobs, including the ones you named were once filled with children that are now filled with a bunch of under-paid illegal immigrants. I stil wuv you snoopbert!

Who doesn't wuv me?