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I'd still go with current Juggernaut. Thing was easily defeated the first time they fought.

Juggernaut, still.

Originally posted by Porsche
Juggernaut, still. Current Thing beats Current Juggs. Juggs is but a shell of his former self. Thing is equal to him in strength maybe stronger. Juggs still may be a little more durable but I doubt it. Thing is a much better fighter then Cain so in my opinion Thing wins.

thing will DDDIIIIEEE! he isnt as nearly as strong as the hulk and ironman. and juggernaut has the same strength as hulk,except when hulk gets angry. juggernaut can own the thing in 5-6 hits, maybe less.

Current Juggy beat Rhino pretty easily. Something Thing Failed to do.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Current Juggy beat Rhino pretty easily. Something Thing Failed to do. Yeah he still has his moments but overall he basically is at or around things level now and since I feel Thing is the better fighter he will take this.

Juggy is still class 100. He has a 7 rating for strength and durability yet.

Thing has a 6 in both. Juggy has been kicking @ss just as long as Benji has.

my god! did jugg get weaker ? i dont know please tell me!

Originally posted by UltimateIronman
my god! did jugg get weaker ? i dont know please tell me! Yes he has basically now become Things level. He is still considered class 100 but at best a low end one. If I'm not mistaken didn't Rhino cut Juggs with his horn. His dirabilityis no where close to where it used to be.

Thing isn't class 100 that I am aware of. He is still 85 tons. Current Juggy is over 100 tons like Colossus is.

now i know thanos was upgraded thanos wins.

oops wrong post

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Thing isn't class 100 that I am aware of. He is still 85 tons. Current Juggy is over 100 tons like Colossus is. Not really he has been shown to strain at or right around 100 tons. Thing from what I've heard has shown feats that put him 85 to 95 ton range. With Things superior fighting skills he should be able to take down Cain no problem.

How does Thing have superior fighting skills, really?

They both went to army, except that Cain actually fought in real war. Cain is older (Age: Cain>Professor Xavier>Thing). They have fought as long, and as equal enemies.

I think they are tied in fighting skills.

Yea Things fighting skills are a bit overrated at times.

Current Juggy is still too much to handle. He took out Rhino, Sasquatch, and even Alpha Flight while they were wearing Hulk-buster armor in his weaker form.(Sorry King).

jugger naut is AS STRONG AS THE HULK! EXCEPT WHEN HULK IS ANGRY. JUGGERNAUT WILL OWWWNN!

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
How does Thing have superior fighting skills, really?

They both went to army, except that Cain actually fought in real war. Cain is older (Age: Cain>Professor Xavier>Thing). They have fought as long, and as equal enemies.

I think they are tied in fighting skills. Yes Cain was in the army and does have better than average fighting skys but since then all Cain had to do was walk over people he never had to work on his fighting skills anymore. Thing though has had to fight some of toughest people there are and he has had to learn to better fighter to survive.
Since Thing is more used to fighting at this level I give him in the edge since Juggs really still isn't used to being so depowered. Don't get me wrong Cain has just as much heart as Thing and won't give up but if Thing fights smart using exprience in fights like these he should win.

of course juggy will win. ive seen afew comic books already where hulk and thing go at it and hulk knocks out thing. juggy and hulk have the same class just about so of course juggy would knock the crap out of thing

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Yea Things fighting skills are a bit overrated at times.

Current Juggy is still too much to handle. He took out Rhino, Sasquatch, and even Alpha Flight while they were wearing Hulk-buster armor in his weaker form.(Sorry King).

What? no he didn't. I even posted the scans of both of the fights. No one was knocked out in either fight; both times it was stopped. *shrugs*

Here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=371981&pagenumber=7#post5446262

Do I have to summon the wrath of Sasquatch?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Hulk_Annual_1979_008_11.jpg

Even with their fancy Hulk-Buster armor Alpah Flight couldn't take Cain down until he stopped fighitng back. Seems to me that his durability even weakened is muchgreater than Thing's.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Even with their fancy Hulk-Buster armor Alpah Flight couldn't take Cain down until he stopped fighitng back. Seems to me that his durability even weakened is muchgreater than Thing's.

Guardian and Vindicator wern't even fighting most of it. When Sas was kicking the crap out of Jugz it was them who stopped him....twice. Still a feat, but it was badly written and no one won.

In the first Fight ther is no point that Sasquash is kicking the crap out of Cain. Even when he smashes him with a tree. Juggernaut sends him flying at least twice. The best hit he gets on him is that first one even that didn't send him anywhere.

The second time Sas tackles him and hits him once. That is not beating his ass thats one hit, had he been kncoked unconcious then he would have had something. Yeah he stopped attacking because Vindicator called him off but then Cain got back up and kncoked Sasqaush through the house even with his new armour on. Guardian starts spraying Cain with gunfire Cain grabs a car and hits Sas again as he tries to come back into the house.

Guardian the next thing we see of Guardian is her flying out of the building. Vindicator gave a nice fight..for about three panels then Cain dismantled him and his armour. Thats when Cain saw sammy standing over his injured mom. Sas jumps on him and starts hitting him but at this point Cain is no longer fighting, he isn't even looking at Sas he is looking at Sammy. So its not like Sas overpowerd Juggernaut he wasn't even fighting him back. Heck every time Cain landed a solid hit on Sas he sent him flying.

Originally posted by Warmonger
In the first Fight ther is no point that Sasquash is kicking the crap out of Cain. Even when he smashes him with a tree. Juggernaut sends him flying at least twice. The best hit he gets on him is that first one even that didn't send him anywhere.

The second time Sas tackles him and hits him once. That is not beating his ass thats one hit, had he been kncoked unconcious then he would have had something. Yeah he stopped attacking because Vindicator called him off but then Cain got back up and kncoked Sasqaush through the house even with his new armour on. Guardian starts spraying Cain with gunfire Cain grabs a car and hits Sas again as he tries to come back into the house.

Guardian the next thing we see of Guardian is her flying out of the building. Vindicator gave a nice fight..for about three panels then Cain dismantled him and his armour. Thats when Cain saw sammy standing over his injured mom. Sas jumps on him and starts hitting him but at this point Cain is no longer fighting, he isn't even looking at Sas he is looking at Sammy. So its not like Sas overpowerd Juggernaut he wasn't even fighting him back. Heck every time Cain landed a solid hit on Sas he sent him flying.

He sends him flying once when he let his guard down and the other into a tree, which Sas used to his advantage. By all accounts Sasquatch had the biggest hit in the fight .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/p22-23.jpg

I never said he was knocked out *shrugs* Also one hit? no your wrong, when he crashed through the house notice the "wham, wham, wham"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p07.jpg

and then "smash"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p08.jpg

and then "kwham" knocking Jugz down.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p14.jpg

We never even learned what the new suits did, it's not like it increased their strength due to from the fight normal Guardian and Vindicator are stronger with their base armor. It was Vindicator with gun fire and right there is a major error

No Cain dismantled the armor part, his suit is his "clothes". Actually the first part of the fight, Sas tackles Jugz into the house and gives him majority of the power shots and then Guardian and Vindicator tell him to stop. He was overpowered, and then later the Sammy incident occurs. I still feel no one won that fight. Why does Jugz have his shirt back on at the end of the fight? why did Vindicator shoot him with machine gun fire ? why did Guardian attack Jugz in a fist fight , when his blast alone can kill a being as strong as Sasquatch? How could Jugz even touck Mac or Heather who can go mach 1, fly and Mac's computer mind. Good lord, anyone who knows anything about Alpha Flight knows that their powers were not written correctly.

Like I said earlier, no one won the fight.

Stop hyping new jugs....if I could piss on him, I would.

Although he's still immortal & supposedly doesn't tire or need to breath/eat....he'd still just find a way to lose.

Classic Jugs....well, we know what that man can do!

No we don't see who is getting hit for all we know is that they were exchanging hits. We only see one hit. What makes you think he was getting in all the power hits? Hell for all we could see they were hitting the walls.

Honestly the whole point of my contention was to shwo that even Current Juggernat is tougher and Stronger than Sas who is tougher and Stronger than Thing.

Long Pig, juggs is like my 3rd favorite comic book character. So to me I don't turn my back on Juggs just because Marvel kind of crapped on him. I just hope they do him right in Excalibur.

Originally posted by Warmonger
No we don't see who is getting hit for all we know is that they were exchanging hits. We only see one hit. What makes you think he was getting in all the power hits? Hell for all we could see they were hitting the walls.

Honestly the whole point of my contention was to shwo that even Current Juggernat is tougher and Stronger than Sas who is tougher and Stronger than Thing.



Naaaaaa, we see Sas on top of Jugz with his arm going up like he is punching him and the "wham wham wham" occurs. It strongly and I mean strongly suggests it was Sas hitting him. The "smash" part, it's logical you could say that, since we don't know for sure. However, Jugz looked in rough shape when the one hit we see the "kwham" part. Come on now your stretching, hitting the walls? In both fights Jugz looked in rough shape. No way does he completly outclass Sas.

That's fine, believe what you want but he never beat them and the 2nd fight Sas had most of the upper hand . The more rage Sasquatch goes through the stronger he becomes due to Tanaraq taking control. He goes right back up to his classic strength.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Hulk_Annual_1979_008_11.jpg

Rhino was easliy defeted by Juggernaut. Rhino even tried to stab him with his horn but it didn't affect him cause he didn't appear to be cut in any way.

Thing couldn't beat Rhino the time they fought. Rhino didn't even want to fight Thing. He was trying to talk him out of it.

Originally posted by snoopdogg

Thing couldn't beat Rhino the time they fought. Rhino didn't even want to fight Thing. He was trying to talk him out of it.

That's interesting I never knew they fought. What issue is this?....great find.

It's from Things ongoing he had in the 80's. Like #26 or something in there.

What upperhand. Even with a new set of armor he couldn't put Juggernat down. Lets that was only Sas hittging Jugz wouldn't that make it worse? Amped up with new armor and a getting all those hits then Juggs stands up and gives him one hit and sends him flying out of the building.

Sas got in more hits? When? When Juggernat gave up? Thats like saying you beat up a man with his hands tied up. How much damage did you think Sas did he wasn't even looking at Sas while he was punching him so it apparently wasn't bugging him that much.

Even with Guradian and Vindicator backing him up and his new Armor Sas couldn't stop Juggz until he stopped himself.

Juggernaut fought Rhino right after the whoel Alpha Flight thing when he was incarcerated The Rhino Broke out and attacked some guards Juggz came to try to stop him. Rhino's horn actually periced Juggz Chest whic only seemed to piss him off.

Did anyone read the New Excalibur yet? Did Juggs get his powers back?

Originally posted by Warmonger
What upperhand. Even with a new set of armor he couldn't put Juggernat down. Lets that was only Sas hittging Jugz wouldn't that make it worse? Amped up with new armor and a getting all those hits then Juggs stands up and gives him one hit and sends him flying out of the building.

Sas got in more hits? When? When Juggernat gave up? Thats like saying you beat up a man with his hands tied up. How much damage did you think Sas did he wasn't even looking at Sas while he was punching him so it apparently wasn't bugging him that much.

Even with Guradian and Vindicator backing him up and his new Armor Sas couldn't stop Juggz until he stopped himself.

Juggernaut fought Rhino right after the whoel Alpha Flight thing when he was incarcerated The Rhino Broke out and attacked some guards Juggz came to try to stop him. Rhino's horn actually periced Juggz Chest whic only seemed to piss him off.

Here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p07.jpg
His arm was up like his is delivering blows to jugz and that's where the wham, wham, wham came from. This fight only lasted for literally a minute. "What happened, I was only gone a minute" . Of course Sas is not going to take Jugz out in that time, or Jugz is going to take him out. Your being foolish.

No I'm not even factoring in that and you know it. First he tackles him through the house and Jugz was ready for it. Then he continues to hit him when he is on the ground, the "smash" is up for debate, but then he hits him knocking him to the ground. Guardian and Vindicator tell him to stop and Jugz gets up and hits him. That's his only hit on Sas and he was unaffected. So Sas made him bleed and had more hits on him. After the Sammy part Jugz was a bloody mess, he was more "emotional" hurt than anything but he still felt it. To say he took no damage is crazy. Even the first fight Jugz's face was swallon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/p38.jpg

Wrong, Jugz was on the ground staggered and Sas stopped his attack due to they told him to stop. You do realize this entire fight was only a minute long. Where most of it was Sas attacking Jugz

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Did anyone read the New Excalibur yet? Did Juggs get his powers back?

I've read issue #1 and no he hasn't.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I've read issue #1 and no he hasn't. But apparently Dazzler is Lazarus...

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p07.jpg
His arm was up like his is delivering blows to jugz and that's where the wham, wham, wham came from. This fight only lasted for literally a minute. "What happened, I was only gone a minute" . Of course Sas is not going to take Jugz out in that time, or Jugz is going to take him out. Your being foolish.

No I'm not even factoring in that and you know it. First he tackles him through the house and Jugz was ready for it. Then he continues to hit him when he is on the ground, the "smash" is up for debate, but then he hits him knocking him to the ground. Guardian and Vindicator tell him to stop and Jugz gets up and hits him. That's his only hit on Sas and he was unaffected. So Sas made him bleed and had more hits on him. After the Sammy part Jugz was a bloody mess, he was more "emotional" hurt than anything but he still felt it. To say he took no damage is crazy. Even the first fight Jugz's face was swallon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/p38.jpg

Wrong, Jugz was on the ground staggered and Sas stopped his attack due to they told him to stop. You do realize this entire fight was only a minute long. Where most of it was Sas attacking Jugz



I've read issue #1 and no he hasn't.

Whoa that doens't prove that that it was just Sas hitting Juggs non stop. It just shows Sas with his hand sover his head and alot of smoke, you assume that becasue you a Sas fan, but it certainly didn't show Sas hitting Juggs three times.

What do you mean that Sas wasn't affected his ass went flying through the house and that wasn't Cain's only hit look at the part where Guardian is shooting Jugg he grabs a car Sas can be seen coming up behind Cain Juggs takes the car and tosses it at Sas send him flying into a wall again. And in the second fight Juggs didn't start bleeding till Vindicator hit him and Sas only made him bleed after he gave up.

I didn't say that he took no damage, what I said was that Punching somone who isn't fighting back isn't a win and that every hit Jugs landed on Sas was more powerful. The first fight was much more even.

Also as for that hit in the first fight, is there more to those scans casue I don't see why if Sas hit Juggernat he was laid out as well cause Juggernaut didn't hit him in that panel so what the hell was that.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Whoa that doens't prove that that it was just Sas hitting Juggs non stop. It just shows Sas with his hand sover his head and alot of smoke, you assume that becasue you a Sas fan, but it certainly didn't show Sas hitting Juggs three times.

What do you mean that Sas wasn't affected his ass went flying through the house and that wasn't Cain's only hit look at the part where Guardian is shooting Jugg he grabs a car Sas can be seen coming up behind Cain Juggs takes the car and tosses it at Sas send him flying into a wall again. And in the second fight Juggs didn't start bleeding till Vindicator hit him and Sas only made him bleed after he gave up.


I didn't say that he took no damage, what I said was that Punching somone who isn't fighting back isn't a win and that every hit Jugs landed on Sas was more powerful. The first fight was much more even.

Also as for that hit in the first fight, is there more to those scans casue I don't see why if Sas hit Juggernat he was laid out as well cause Juggernaut didn't hit him in that panel so what the hell was that.



How does it not? sorry but when your on your back after being tackled your not going to be countering. Besides the wham wham wham part was showing Sas attacking Jugz in a hammer hand attack. It's not going to show him getting hit three times that's what sound effect texts is used for to fill in the blanks. No offence, but wake up it's clear as day. Does that mean Sas won the fight? HELL NO!. Good lord do not play the Sas fanboy card, I know his limits and many times I have said Sas would lose in certain fights. Now your just grasping at straws. I never even said Sas won this fight or would win this fight. Your playing the Jugz fanboy more than I am playing it was Sas.

Ummm...yeah and he quickly got up and tackled Jugz once again. Was Sas bloody from that confrontation? no. Was Sas physically wounded? maybe, but he would have taken less damage than Jugz did. No your wrong again, he tossed the car at Guardian not Sas. Notice he does not have the orange helmet or the huge arm shoulder guards or whatever the hell they are. Plus Sas doesn't have kneepads, Guardian does. See the difference....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p16b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Uncanny_X-Men_434_Pyrate_06.jpg

I was talking about how you said he was uneffected because he wasn't looking at Jugz attacks so it must have meant nothing to him. However, it did since it resulted in a bloody mess.

Good lord I never even said it was a win, but prior Sas had more hits than Jugz did. Do I think Sas won? no! The fight only lasted a minute and was far from over. If it continued who knows what would happen.

Nope, I posted the entire fight all the scans included. He most likely got hurt from the sheer shockwave since a crater is formed, the ground shakes and cars go flying. I posted the entire fight from start to finish.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p07.jpg

Loook at the pic Juggs ins't down unless laying down he is as tall as Sas. Sas certainly has his hand raised above his head but that doesn't mean he is throwing all of the hits because Juggernaut is standing. He certainly give him a hit that puts him down later before Vindicator orders him to stop but Jugs is right back up.

I looked at the picture again and your right its not Sas its vindicator.

Ok I exaggerated when I said he was unaffected but that was becasue you said that Sas had down the most damage when the only real damge he did was when Juggs gave up.

Im not saying that Juggs won but everytime he hit Sas he sent him flying. So ti looked like he was stronger.

snoopdogg already beat me to it. Current Juggernaut is still class 100 and still basically invulnerable to most things, just not to such a degree as before. He still beats Current Thing. Sorry to disappoint.

Originally posted by Warmonger
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p07.jpg

Loook at the pic Juggs ins't down unless laying down he is as tall as Sas. Sas certainly has his hand raised above his head but that doesn't mean he is throwing all of the hits because Juggernaut is standing. He certainly give him a hit that puts him down later before Vindicator orders him to stop but Jugs is right back up.

I looked at the picture again and your right its not Sas its vindicator.

Ok I exaggerated when I said he was unaffected but that was becasue you said that Sas had down the most damage when the only real damge he did was when Juggs gave up.

Im not saying that Juggs won but everytime he hit Sas he sent him flying. So ti looked like he was stronger.

Actually it's quite possible. The closer I look at it, it can be interpreted as that. Sas could be over top of him or on his knees, but really your right you can't see a clear vision. No need to further debate it since my entire point was that Jugz did not beat Sas or Alpha Flight.

No worries.

I'm sure he did damage with the confronation through the house and Sas hitting him to the ground. Is it enough to consider Sas the winner? no way. The fight ended way to quick for any real serious damage to happen.

Meh! Sas gets tossed around a lot , but he quickly recovers or it does little damage to him .

Sas mostly goes from the downward stroke down rather than striaght punch on. That's what caused the crater in the first fight since Sas's hit Jugz straight down to the ground,
========
The artists had horrible continuity for instance Jugz shirt
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p14.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Uncanny_X-Men_434_Pyrate_05.jpg

Vindicator's armor:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/uncanny_x-men_433_p14.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Uncanny_X-Men_434_Pyrate_09.jpg

Mac's helmet:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/p18.jpg

eh.

Honestly I don't remeber what I was arguing about at the moment.

But if you want to know what I think? I think if the current Sas can pull the Tanaraq stunt that I saw Heather pull in the Exiles then he would probably beat current Juggs.

Originally posted by Warmonger

But if you want to know what I think? I think if the current Sas can pull the Tanaraq stunt that I saw Heather pull in the Exiles then he would probably beat current Juggs.

Classic Sas could take current Jugs, he could lift thousands of tons . Also yeah Tanaraq is a beast. 616 Sasquatch has pulled the Tanaraq stunt before, but Snowbird transformed into Tanraq as well and ripped out Sasquatch's heart.