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Neutral open setting. No element of surprise. Both have their respective lightsabers. However, the rules of the fight dictate that it is melee only... hands, feet, and blade. No offensive force powers such as force push or sith lightning, etc.

Who wins?

Sidious

Sidious. Sidious kept up with Yoda pretty well in ep3.

I would say the Emperor. Some EU source credited with Maul possessing superior lightsaber dueling ability than his master, and yet at the same time, others say otherwise. Maul is extremely agile and very quick, but Sidious can be as well, especially if the Force is used to modify his reflexes. But, I don't know.

So, I can't say.

Well, it would be a good fight, just saber to saber. I posted it because some people have genuinely different views on the issue. I personally think without the Force Maul could contend well with Sidious. Sidious is all rage and quick strikes, but Maul was able to defend himself from the hammering blows of two Ataru practitioners with relative ease.

Sidious

You gotta admit that Maul was one hell of a duelist.

He was a very skilled one. But he had a bad reputation. Some people gave him that because Obi-Wan killed him. But, if anything, I credit that to Obi-Wan simply being quicker. If Obi-Wan were truly greater, he would have killed Maul especially when he had Qui-Gon to help him.

Well, to be fair, it was the dark side that gave him such an edge, but it's still a testament to Obi-Wan's prowess.

Maul, Basicly for the same reason Ianus brought up.

Sidious did kill Kit Fisto, Sasee and Agen, all of who could give Qui-gon a hard time, using only saber skill.

I'm going with Sidious but only because he trained Maul and would know all of his moves.

Arent we discussing Kit vs Maul in another thread, where most people agree that Kit would win?

Actually I stated Kit would have gotten owned but then I got bashed for it.

This would be a joke, Sidious for the win in under 4 seconds.

Lightsabers only? I don't think so.

Yeah really. I'm leaninh towards Sidious, but he wouldn't leave the battle without almost getting "mauled". (Sorry, I can't resist saying bad puns)

Originally posted by Ianus
Lightsabers only? I don't think so.

Sidious defeated 3 jedi masters who were well known for their skill and could each beat maul by themself. No reason to believe Maul puts up any kind of fight.

Erm, actually the only one who could contend with Maul would be Kit, and that would be a long battle. Sidious' KO of the three jedi masters was really, really, not indicative of his abilities in a straight up fight. If you think Maul is gonna sit there while Sidious Psychocrushes across the room and runs up to him, pauses and does a horribly telegraphed stab... well, keep dreaming.

Originally posted by Ianus
Erm, actually the only one who could contend with Maul would be Kit, and that would be a long battle. Sidious' KO of the three jedi masters was really, really, not indicative of his abilities in a straight up fight. If you think Maul is gonna sit there while Sidious Psychocrushes across the room and runs up to him, pauses and does a horribly telegraphed stab... well, keep dreaming.

No, the three jedi masters who accompioned Windu were among the best the order had and Sidious still owned them with complete ease. Maul gets 'mauled'.

Actually, they WEREN'T among the best in the order. Saessee was a pilot, and Agen was a random jedi master who just barely got appointed to council thanks to the Clone Wars attrition rate.

And it really does Sidious credit to have defeated such valiant foes indeed... Agen was half turned from Sidious when Sidious attacks (I just rewatched the scene) and Saessee apparently can't defend from the chin down. And then every time Mace defends and has an opening, he SITS THERE in the most horrid way possible and doesn't counter attack.

Originally posted by Ianus
Actually, they WEREN'T among the best in the order. Saessee was a pilot, and Agen was a random jedi master who just barely got appointed to council thanks to the Clone Wars attrition rate.

And it really does Sidious credit to have defeated such valiant foes indeed... Agen was half turned from Sidious when Sidious attacks (I just rewatched the scene) and Saessee apparently can't defend from the chin down. And then every time Mace defends and has an opening, he SITS THERE in the most horrid way possible and doesn't counter attack.

Actually they WERE, the ROTS novel makes that clear. I know the movie makes them look inept but perhaps Sidious is just that good?

Good enough to make them worse than a padawan? I don't think so.

And the movie source tromps all over that Sidious and Anakin fanboy bible that is the novelisation. It's more inaccurate than calling a Kennedy "chaste".

Originally posted by Ianus
Good enough to make them worse than a padawan? I don't think so.

And the movie source tromps all over that Sidious and Anakin fanboy bible that is the novelisation. It's more inaccurate than calling a Kennedy "chaste".

I missed the part in the movie where George Lucas suddenly declares before the Sidious fight "These jedi masters you are about to see get owned by Sidious are among the worst in the order, so dont get any ideas that Sidious is actually powerful or anything."

If you ask me if I think Sidious is capable of wasting those jedi masters I'll say yes, definately. But the execution was poor, and it's not the conclusion of yours I'm having a problem with, it's the way you're reaching it.

Now, if you said "Well, SIdious went toe to toe with Yoda and held, plus he trained Maul. I think he would win, though perhaps not right away." I'd agree.

Originally posted by Ianus
If you ask me if I think Sidious is capable of wasting those jedi masters I'll say yes, definately. But the execution was poor, and it's not the conclusion of yours I'm having a problem with, it's the way you're reaching it.

Now, if you said "Well, SIdious went toe to toe with Yoda and held, plus he trained Maul. I think he would win, though perhaps not right away." I'd agree.

That would be a lazy argument that you couldnt possibly argue with, Im going a bit further, if 3 masters couldnt last more than 4 seconds I dont see how maul could.

By that logic, if Zett can last against all those clone troops, I don't see how Order 66 killed any jedi.

Originally posted by Ianus
By that logic, if Zett can last against all those clone troops, I don't see how Order 66 killed any jedi.

But your logic would defy previously known facts.

My logic would pwn you both

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
But your logic would defy previously known facts.

No, you obviously didn't get the point.

By your logic, you're saying that the performance of those three jedi masters definately sets the bar for Darth Maul in a neutral setting, no element of surprise, in lightsaber combat only.

Originally posted by Ianus
No, you obviously didn't get the point.

By your logic, you're saying that the performance of those three jedi masters definately sets the bar for Darth Maul in a neutral setting, no element of surprise, in lightsaber combat only.

Yes it does, theres no evidence that Sidious had any kind of unfair advantage in the fight, thus his ownage of the 3 masters can set the bar for what we can expect in the maul fight. You can argue that Sidious suprised them, however I doubt their stupid enough to walk into the presence of a sith lord unprepared. They were simply outmatched through superior skill.

Alright. Sure.

Not gonna argue with you again. We went over this months ago.

Originally posted by Ianus
Alright. Sure.

Not gonna argue with you again. We went over this months ago.

Wow, you remember what we talked about months ago?

Yeah, considering that everytime Sidious was in a thread you and DS were busting your balls to preserve his honor and status. I'm pretty sure I've covered every aspect of Sidious' fights in ROTS with you before and then some, because you are horribly biased.

Hell, I'm basically telling you here that it's not gonna be a mop up with Maul and I HATE Maul as a character. I could see if I was being unreasonable, but I'm not.

Originally posted by Ianus
Yeah, considering that everytime Sidious was in a thread you and DS were busting your balls to preserve his honor and status. I'm pretty sure I've covered every aspect of Sidious' fights in ROTS with you before and then some, because you are horribly biased.

Hell, I'm basically telling you here that it's not gonna be a mop up with Maul and I HATE Maul as a character. I could see if I was being unreasonable, but I'm not.

Oh well, we both agree Maul would lose atleast.

wait do jumps count??? otherwise the fight would last longer, and it depends on which sidious. PT sidious would own but i dont know about OT sidious

Sids'd just use force lightning and kill'm w/ ease. Sids is the strongest in the universe! 'ce' maybe Luke, Vader n Yoda. But still, Maul's just an apprentace. Sids's a master.

Even w/ lightsabers.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Actually they WERE, the ROTS novel makes that clear. I know the movie makes them look inept but perhaps Sidious is just that good?

No, if that's the case, I make a better Jedi than they do...I mean, come on, how does standing there, doing nothing, make you good?

There's about a four second pause between Palps preparing his initial stab before he executes...oh silly me, I think I'll stand here instead of slashing this moron

Maul would win, he lasted longer against two...Palps was essentially just fighting Mace, but he didn't last too long, and woulda lost had Anakin not saved his sorry ass.

Originally posted by Spearhead
No, if that's the case, I make a better Jedi than they do...I mean, come on, how does standing there, doing nothing, make you good?

There's about a four second pause between Palps preparing his initial stab before he executes...oh silly me, I think I'll stand here instead of slashing this moron

Maul would win, he lasted longer against two...Palps was essentially just fighting Mace, but he didn't last too long, and woulda lost had Anakin not saved his sorry ass. It's how he fights. All the greats don't move when they fight. It's in EVERY movie with good vs. evil.

Weren't the Jedi just standing there because of some mental force power that Sidious had? Something like they were trying to read his mind and the darkside clouded the Jedi's mind? Something along those lines? Anyone?

I dunno. Maul was really an exceptional duelist. Sidious would probably take Maul but it certainly won't be a walk in the park.

Originally posted by xyz jedi
Sids'd just use force lightning and kill'm w/ ease. Sids is the strongest in the universe! 'ce' maybe Luke, Vader n Yoda. But still, Maul's just an apprentace. Sids's a master.

Even w/ lightsabers.

You, my friend, are rather peculiar. Did you not read the very first post, which stated that this is a strictly melee match-up?

And Sidious? The most powerful in the universe? Vader, his superior? You need to brush up on your knowledge of these topics, or no one is ever going to take you seriously.

People say that but I dunno know. I don't think Jedi can read minds that or it only works on the weak minded.

Jedi can sense emotions and thoughts, not read minds. But Force-users more adept in this practice of empathy can use these emotions and thoughts to deduct what the subject holds in their mind, what they are thinking about. Darth Vader displays this ability in ROTJ, during his duel with Luke. He senses concern from Luke, and by delving into these emotions, he somehow figures out what Luke is thinking.

Saessee I believe, was a telepath. Agen apparently has ADD. And Kit Fisto just got owned thanks to poor defense. I like how only Mace reacted (By stepping back with his saber at the ready) when Sidious attacked and the others made a stupid face. I wouldn't doubt at all that that unearthly scream of Sidious' somehow muddled them for a minute or two.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
You, my friend, are rather peculiar. Did you not read the very first post, which stated that this is a strictly melee match-up?

And Sidious? The most powerful in the universe? Vader, his superior? You need to brush up on your knowledge of these topics, or no one is ever going to take you seriously. well Vader goes without saying.

Noob. Get thee gone!

After laughing at this thread at first, upon closer inspection it is by Ianus so its gonna be serious *nods approval at Ianus*,

Even though I believe they would be relatively similar fighters without offensive force powers, its in Maul character to get cocky and do something stupid. Sidious would just keep running and then strike when Maul gets reckless.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Jedi can sense emotions and thoughts, not read minds. But Force-users more adept in this practice of empathy can use these emotions and thoughts to deduct what the subject holds in their mind, what they are thinking about. Darth Vader displays this ability in ROTJ, during his duel with Luke. He senses concern from Luke, and by delving into these emotions, he somehow figures out what Luke is thinking.

Doubtful...Vader knew exactly what Luke was thinking. If Vader understood that Luke cared for someone, who was female, then he would think girlfriend, not sister. Bear in mind, Vader is unaware there are two of them, and to overlook that is a silly mistake. Too much of a coincidence for him to get it correct right away.

Anywho...sadly, kane's got a point, Maul's not too bright. Wait long enough and he'll do something stupid...

lets stick to the subject maul verse sidious you know i think maul might have a slight chance if he concentrates doesnt let up or anything and sticks to his ground its like ping pong you stop for a second and your done but sidious is pretty sneaky even if its fair he just is sneaky but a full out duel i might have to say sids 60 40 wins but theres only one shot and forty is a big number so who no's and i can eb very well wrong but sidious was owned by windu most the fight till his sneakyness came who is a little higher then dooku and is on par with yoda and qiu gon jin is way lower then windu and maul struggled with him and obi wan was determined just had a brake has a adrennilen rush and thats mostley why but there like a tie in strength so probley sidious

I don't know what you said really. Mace pwned Sidious? He won but didn't pwn him. Sidious is a lot better then ROTS Obi-Wan and Maul got beat by TPM Obi-Wan. Sidious fought 4 Jedi Masters and 3 of them he killed. Maul had trouble with a master and a padawan. I have to give the fight to Sidious.

Maul was still an apprentice meaning Sidious was still training the Zabrac. And part of the training had to be dueling. When Maul died(as an apprentice) it obviously meant there was more training to be taught, especially in the art dueling.

Maul would've only used techniques Sidious taught him that Sidious himself mastered. And Sidious would not only counter every single shot Maul threw at him, but he'd attack with techniques he hadn't shown maul yet. Moves Maul wouldn't probably know how to counter or defend. Maul would be overwhelmed.

A cackling Sidious beheads Maul in 60 seconds in a lightsaber duel.

maul wins by lightsaber only.
in rots they make sids look incredibly fast, with cheap effects.
maul is a better swordsman.

Okay, lets look at how Sidious killed the three Masters, Kolar, Saesee, and Fisto. He used the "force" hence "force" to fly towards them and then he killed them. He didn't kill them because he was good at dueling, he killed them because he used the force to get an upperhand.

Now, think about the intensity of the fight between Maul, Obi Wan, and Qui Gon. Sidious struggled with Mace and that fight wasn't that fast at all. If Maul wasn't cocky and overconfident he would wipe the floor with Sidious' face!

Originally posted by calvin44
maul wins by lightsaber only.
in rots they make sids look incredibly fast, with cheap effects.
maul is a better swordsman.

But they made Maul look good with some flashy little manouvers that would get him killed in any real fight.

Originally posted by Spearhead
Doubtful...Vader knew exactly what Luke was thinking. If Vader understood that Luke cared for someone, who was female, then he would think girlfriend, not sister. Bear in mind, Vader is unaware there are two of them, and to overlook that is a silly mistake. Too much of a coincidence for him to get it correct right away.

Anywho...sadly, kane's got a point, Maul's not too bright. Wait long enough and he'll do something stupid...


I agree. When Anakin goes to the council, Yoda says he is thinking about his mother which is what he is thinking about. After that Yoda says, "see through you, we can".