Slade vs Gorgon

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long pig
This guy kicked Wolverine's ass almost as hard as Slade would, so I decided to pit them up against each other.

Oh, and Wolverine beat him by the greatest PIS in history:Having attempted to use his mutant ability to render Wolverine into stone, Wolverine simply used his claws to reflect the mutant power back at its owner.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ec/Wolverine30.jpg/250px-Wolverine30.jpg


Slade can see through his cybernetic eye, and he could always do the "looka my sword!" trick.

Anyways, who wins.

jrodslam
Slade wins lol. Because his reflexes are faster than Wolverines, he'll just use his sword to reflect the eye beams of Gorgon as well.

X-Logan
Gorgon easily.

DrDoom101
What if Gorgon stares at Deathstroke's legs while Deathstroke puts his sword somewhere else?

wolverine8888
lol to bad slade can't take wolverine

wolverine8888
Originally posted by jrodslam
Slade wins lol. Because his reflexes are faster than Wolverines, he'll just use his sword to reflect the eye beams of Gorgon as well.

not true at all thats all speculation.

wolverine8888
gorgon will kick the ever liven shit out of death stroke.
slade has no advantage in this fight, not a single one.
also how would slade know looking into gorgons eyes would turn him to stone?

King KAM
Originally posted by wolverine8888
gorgon will kick the ever liven shit out of death stroke.
slade has no advantage in this fight, not a single one.
also how would slade know looking into gorgons eyes would turn him to stone?
dude.,.... slade is faster than wolverine....i dont like it ewither man but slade is 10x peak human speed and reflexes....wolverine isnt that fast, gorgon loses this fight, because slade chops his head off, gorgon was fast but not that fast.

Piedmon
Wolverine basically only beat Gorgon through sheer luck. (And even he admitted it.)

Gorgon's a ****ing beast. Some of his powers off the top of my head:

-Telepathically knows his opponent's every move
-Moves at nearly the speed of thought
-Superstrong
-Immune to most critical injuries (technically he IS a revived corpse)
-And of course, his killing gaze.

Gorgon doesn't employ the gaze unless he's beaten his opponent into helplessness. I doubt Slade could take advantage of it. Unless there's some plot device for his advanced intelligence to recognize, Deathstroke is going down and staying down.

X-Logan
Slade is dead...

King KAM
Originally posted by X-Logan
Slade is dead...
slade has his boomstick, and a variety of weapons, along with grenades and stuff, he could take him....gorgon is overrated, he is the man, but he aint slade.

scotsmn
Originally posted by King KAM
slade has his boomstick, and a variety of weapons, along with grenades and stuff, he could take him....gorgon is overrated, he is the man, but he aint slade.

Gorgon is absolutely NOT overrated. He took down electra her getting a single attack in. He took Wolverine's claws up and down, in and out of his chest without much pause. He's a beast, a dead one and physical attacks are basically worthless against him. The fact that Wolverine takes out Slade and Wolverine had so much trouble with Gorgon means Gorgon would completely wipe the floor with Slade. He beats slade in EVERY category.

DarkCrawler
Gorgon is badass. He would have whooped Wolverine without the claws trick.

Gorgon 9/10.

Gorgon should never fight Mirror Master, though.

King KAM
Originally posted by scotsmn
Gorgon is absolutely NOT overrated. He took down electra her getting a single attack in. He took Wolverine's claws up and down, in and out of his chest without much pause. He's a beast, a dead one and physical attacks are basically worthless against him. The fact that Wolverine takes out Slade and Wolverine had so much trouble with Gorgon means Gorgon would completely wipe the floor with Slade. He beats slade in EVERY category. Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Gorgon is badass. He would have whooped Wolverine without the claws trick.

Gorgon 9/10.

Gorgon should never fight Mirror Master, though.
idiocy at its finest

scotsmn
Originally posted by King KAM
idiocy at its finest

don't be so hard on yourself. I see you have papa smurf as part of your sig. Perhaps you just need a father figure...

King KAM
Originally posted by scotsmn
don't be so hard on yourself. I see you have papa smurf as part of your sig. Perhaps you just need a father figure...
my sig is based on a cult classic commercial......idiot, and you have proven yourself to be just plain dumb, how does wolverine beat slade?? he doesnt, so stop being so goddam stupid

Wild Cowboy
Slade can beat Zatanaa, and METAGRENADES !!!!

King KAM
Originally posted by Wild Cowboy
Slade can beat Zatanaa, and METAGRENADES !!!!
good boy, you get a sugar-cube.

XerxesLogan
go look at the thread for that bud...its pretty close fight one way or the other, I admit. Gorgon takes this 9/10. if slade wins it by the same type of fluke Logan did. Slade can't hurt him, he is as smart as Ritchards, master of martial arts on an ungodly level, is crazy fast and strong, can kill you at a glance, and figured out a mathmatical equation that proved the existance of God. He is, as X-Logan said a beast. A crazy, crazy deadly villian that, for universe purposes couldn't be left alive. He hammered everything that was put in front of him. He is the equivilat of and regenerative death knight.

King KAM
Originally posted by XerxesLogan
go look at the thread for that bud...its pretty close fight one way or the other, I admit. Gorgon takes this 9/10. if slade wins it by the same type of fluke Logan did. Slade can't hurt him, he is as smart as Ritchards, master of martial arts on an ungodly level, is crazy fast and strong, can kill you at a glance, and figured out a mathmatical equation that proved the existance of God. He is, as X-Logan said a beast. A crazy, crazy deadly villian that, for universe purposes couldn't be left alive. He hammered everything that was put in front of him. He is the equivilat of and regenerative death knight.
dude i read enemy of the stat 1 and 2, so dont try to tell me about gorgon ok kiddo??? slade has a grenades that would blow him to pieces he never showed that kinda regeneration,and never showed reflexes to dodge bullets, or sprinting speed, the only people he beat were peak human, and wolverine who is slightly abovve it slade is 10x it SOOOOOO how can you be so sure?

Wild Cowboy
METAGRENADES !!!!

Piedmon
So you read the comics, huh? Remember the part where Gorgon teleports into shield headquarters, and carries on a whole conversation with Elektra before the guards surrounding him can even squeeze their triggers?

Wolverine and Elektra needed psionic shields so that he couldn't read their moves, and he still owned them. Both. At the same time.

And grow some manners, KK. Sheesh.

XerxesLogan
Alright dic*cheese, first off I'm not "kiddo", I didn't show you disrespect, so I don't expect any. Hypotheticly, if hi-tech grenades would have killed him......don't you freaking think SHIELD WOULD HAVE DONE IT??!! For christs sakes, DS is not god.....he is a badass....but Gorgon has him thrashed. He's dead....what the hell would be the point of dodgeing?

Piedmon
Remember the part where S.H.I.E.L.D shot a CRUISE MISSILE into the Gorgon's apartment building, shrapnel's going everywhere, and he's just like, "****ers ruined my carpet!" Yeah, a grenade isn't going to do piss to him. He could easily clear the area of detonation before it even went off it goes off he's so fast.

Wild Cowboy
Ehhm....did you know that HE IS IMMORTAL !!!!!!

Metagrenades himself up, and still live !!!

Piedmon
Then Slade can live forever as a BLOCK OF STONE.

King KAM
Originally posted by Piedmon
So you read the comics, huh? Remember the part where Gorgon teleports into shield headquarters, and carries on a whole conversation with Elektra before the guards surrounding him can even squeeze their triggers?

Wolverine and Elektra needed psionic shields so that he couldn't read their moves, and he still owned them. Both. At the same time.

And grow some manners, KK. Sheesh.
do you know why they couldnt hear see them???? because they werent completley in the room yet, and when they got in the room they then got shot at, elektra cant react that fast, anbd she was keepin up with him, so he wasnt movin so fast either,Originally posted by XerxesLogan
Alright dic*cheese, first off I'm not "kiddo", I didn't show you disrespect, so I don't expect any. Hypotheticly, if hi-tech grenades would have killed him......don't you freaking think SHIELD WOULD HAVE DONE IT??!! For christs sakes, DS is not god.....he is a badass....but Gorgon has him thrashed. He's dead....what the hell would be the point of dodgeing? Originally posted by XerxesLogan
Alright dic*cheese, first off I'm not "kiddo", I didn't show you disrespect, so I don't expect any. Hypotheticly, if hi-tech grenades would have killed him......don't you freaking think SHIELD WOULD HAVE DONE IT??!! For christs sakes, DS is not god.....he is a badass....but Gorgon has him thrashed. He's dead....what the hell would be the point of dodgeing? shield only tried to kill him once, AND!!!! they asked wolverine and elektra if they wanted to deal with him, and they said yes, so shield for the most part stayed out of it!

Piedmon
Originally posted by King KAM
do you know why they couldnt hear see them???? because they werent completley in the room yet, and when they got in the room they then got shot at, elektra cant react that fast, anbd she was keepin up with him, so he wasnt movin so fast either

Keep up with him? She was totally helpless, he was manhandling her. He was through the corridor into Nick Fury's room before she hardly had time to shout a warning.

And SHIELD sent a small army of their BEST AGENTS in with Wolverine and Elektra. They were hardly spectators.

King KAM
Originally posted by Piedmon
Keep up with him? She was totally helpless, he was manhandling her. He was through the corridor into Nick Fury's room before she hardly had time to shout a warning.

And SHIELD sent a small army of their BEST AGENTS in with Wolverine and Elektra. They were hardly spectators.
The other people were not there for him, and the missle did not hit him directley, meaning it couldnt have blown him up, a grenade would be more direct, blowing off flesh, and elektra and him werent movin only talking, and elektra was keepin up in the convo.

Piedmon
.....It was a ****ing MISSILE.

If it hit anywhere, basically within the same room, he SHOULD have been dead. He didn't die because he was a zombie, and taking shrapnel and huge burns up and down his body didn't mean jack to him. It'd **** up Slade but good, though. Healing factor or no, he'd be on his back. Gorgon could just pin him to the ground with a sword while he was that ****ed up and turn him to stone.

King KAM
Originally posted by Piedmon
.....It was a ****ing MISSILE.

If it hit anywhere, basically within the same room, he SHOULD have been dead. He didn't die because he was a zombie, and taking shrapnel and huge burns up and down his body didn't mean jack to him. It'd **** up Slade but good, though. Healing factor or no, he'd be on his back. Gorgon could just pin him to the ground with a sword while he was that ****ed up and turn him to stone. the missle didnt even kill the other ninjas in the room, it only killed elsbeth, so how about you try and get another reason, i have foiled another one of your plans.

XerxesLogan
the other ninjas were also undead.

King KAM
Originally posted by XerxesLogan
the other ninjas were also undead.
but werent injured flesh wise, and niether was elsbeth it was all concussion force wounds, sooooo it wouldnt have the same effect at all as a metagrenade from pointblank.

XerxesLogan
Good point...but it could be argued that it was an artist flaw......I doubt it though. Couldn't Gorgon react fast enough to dodge the blast radius though? He dodged bullets and whatnot and a grenade isn't going to be traveling nearly as fast as a bullet.

King KAM
Originally posted by XerxesLogan
Good point...but it could be argued that it was an artist flaw......I doubt it though. Couldn't Gorgon react fast enough to dodge the blast radius though? He dodged bullets and whatnot and a grenade isn't going to be traveling nearly as fast as a bullet.
he hasnt dodged a bullet, he reflects them, and or evaded the gun barrel itself, and he didnt see the missle coming, he just was out of the way, im looking at the comic right now.

XerxesLogan
....he reflected the bullet.......thats worse than dodgeing it man....I can dodge and arrow, I sure as hell not going to try and catch it and throw it back. That means he's fast enought to know where they are individualy going, fast enought to get there with a sword reflect it, and go on to the next bullet.

King KAM
Originally posted by XerxesLogan
....he reflected the bullet.......thats worse than dodgeing it man....I can dodge and arrow, I sure as hell not going to try and catch it and throw it back. That means he's fast enought to know where they are individualy going, fast enought to get there with a sword reflect it, and go on to the next bullet.
nah....he just spinned his sword around soo fast it was like a shield, but that doesnt make him faster reflex, just slightly above peak human, with great swordsman skills.

XerxesLogan
I don't know man.......thats still fuc*in' nuts, you'd have to spin that damn thing really fast in order to do that.

King KAM
Originally posted by XerxesLogan
I don't know man.......thats still fuc*in' nuts, you'd have to spin that damn thing really fast in order to do that. been duplicated to many times to really impress me,

wolverine8888
slade ahs granades big whoop. nuthing slade ahs would people able to even hit gorgon and it would not put him down if it did hit him

King KAM
Originally posted by wolverine8888
slade ahs granades big whoop. nuthing slade ahs would people able to even hit gorgon and it would not put him down if it did hit him
we have no proof that gorgon is fast enough to dodge bullets, or multiple grenades that have been strong enough and fast enough to put down superboy.

Juntai
Originally posted by Piedmon
.....It was a ****ing MISSILE.

If it hit anywhere, basically within the same room, he SHOULD have been dead. He didn't die because he was a zombie, and taking shrapnel and huge burns up and down his body didn't mean jack to him. It'd **** up Slade but good, though. Healing factor or no, he'd be on his back. Gorgon could just pin him to the ground with a sword while he was that ****ed up and turn him to stone. So the battle is Slade taking a missle then fighting Gorgon?

King KAM
Originally posted by Juntai
So the battle is Slade taking a missle then fighting Gorgon?
nevermind him, ive silenced his arguments juntai/

Juntai
Originally posted by King KAM
nevermind him, ive silenced his arguments juntai/ As long as someone has it under control. wink

King KAM
Originally posted by Juntai
As long as someone has it under control. wink
roger that

scotsmn
Gorgon went untouched by Electra on at least 1 occassion. He did the same with Wolverine on at least 1 occassion. Gorgon blocks bullets from a machine gun with his narrow sword. Talk about skill and speed. Now that his agility, skill and speed are no longer in question, let's move onto his durability.

He took completely submerged claws into his chest without pausing, same for Wolverine slashing him across his gut and chest. He took the blast of a missile without flinching. He's undead... and seems to heal fast as hell on top of that. The fact that he's undead probably means he doesn't even have pressure points or need his heart to beat.

So, Slade is not going to out skill him, out last him, or out anything him. Besides, if he wanted to make it even less fair he could just take off his sunglasses. Slade would be stone for eternity.

soleran30
Why is that everyone thinks Slade is going to just straight up melee people......he would just use a promethium net and make him sit in forever.

scotsmn
Gorgon = way too fast to get caught that way.

King KAM
Originally posted by scotsmn
Gorgon went untouched by Electra on at least 1 occassion. He did the same with Wolverine on at least 1 occassion. Gorgon blocks bullets from a machine gun with his narrow sword. Talk about skill and speed. Now that his agility, skill and speed are no longer in question, let's move onto his durability.

He took completely submerged claws into his chest without pausing, same for Wolverine slashing him across his gut and chest. He took the blast of a missile without flinching. He's undead... and seems to heal fast as hell on top of that. The fact that he's undead probably means he doesn't even have pressure points or need his heart to beat.

So, Slade is not going to out skill him, out last him, or out anything him. Besides, if he wanted to make it even less fair he could just take off his sunglasses. Slade would be stone for eternity.
He did beat up Elektra without getting touched, but showd no superhuma reflexes ONLY great swordsmanship, and that is a fact, he only faught wolverine twice,the first time he hit him from behind when he was busy, so he has never shown great agility or reflexes, only great swordsmaship.

he took all those stabs because he was already dead, but bullets dont just make incision, they take off flesh, slade would blow his head of literally.

soleran30
duh yeah ok ..........Slade is SO SO much faster then Wolverine and thinks so much faster he could multitask the life outta Gorgan (nice pun) so its not like slade sits there saying please stand still gorgon here comes a net.......not to mention gorgon wouldn't know if it was promethium or adamantium if he has mad skills with a blade he would probably just try to cut it up like those bullets.

long pig
Slade closes his eye and looks through his cybernetic one. Then takes gorgon out.

Slade's reactions aren't 10x, they're more. Instantaneous. Says so in his first appearance.

scotsmn
Originally posted by King KAM
He did beat up Elektra without getting touched, but showd no superhuma reflexes ONLY great swordsmanship, and that is a fact, he only faught wolverine twice,the first time he hit him from behind when he was busy, so he has never shown great agility or reflexes, only great swordsmaship.

Blocking bullets with a sword is superhuman reflexes. This is not in dispute. To be able to see bullets flying through the air and move so quickly as to intercept them is the ultimate display of reflexes.

Originally posted by King KAM
he took all those stabs because he was already dead, but bullets dont just make incision, they take off flesh, slade would blow his head of literally.

Bullets don't take off as much flesh as adamantium claws. And how is Slade going to blow his head off if he blocked every single bullet that flew out of a machine gun confused

Slades guns = useless in this fight

long pig
It's not very impressive, actually. DareDevil does it almost every other issue. The ultimate display of reflexes is tracking a lightspeeder and shooting him....wonder who did that? huh


Promethium blades=adamantium claws.

Can gorgon block a grenade with his sword?

scotsmn
Originally posted by long pig
It's not very impressive, actually. DareDevil does it almost every other issue. The ultimate display of reflexes is tracking a lightspeeder and shooting him....wonder who did that? huh


Promethium blades=adamantium claws.

Can gorgon block a grenade with his sword?

A grenade is big and slow, of course he could deflect it. The shrapnel inside of it? Yes, just like he blocked the bullets. It's not just the fact that he blocked the bullets, its how easy it was for him to do. There's no way you can say Slade is more agile because you have absolutely no evidence of this. He's cut slade up with one hand.

long pig
Originally posted by scotsmn
A grenade is big and slow, of course he could deflect it. The shrapnel inside of it? Yes, just like he blocked the bullets. It's not just the fact that he blocked the bullets, its how easy it was for him to do. There's no way you can say Slade is more agile because you have absolutely no evidence of this. He's cut slade up with one hand.
Sure I do. He's tracked and hit lightspeeders.

Slade looks through his cybernetic eye, plasma blasts gorgon and blows him up.

If Wolverine beat him...he must not be very tough.

scotsmn
Originally posted by long pig
Sure I do. He's tracked and hit lightspeeders.

Slade looks through his cybernetic eye, plasma blasts gorgon and blows him up.

If Wolverine beat him...he must not be very tough.

Light speeders do not always travel at the speed of light.
Gorgon has never been shown to not be able to track lighth speeders.

Slade looks through his single eye? The one that can be cut and rendered useless? Ooooh.

Plasma gun gets blocked like the bullets. Gorgon cuts him in half.

Gotta leave work now, adios.

long pig
This here proves you're an idiot.

jinzin
Originally posted by long pig
Slade closes his eye and looks through his cybernetic one. Then takes gorgon out.

Slade's reactions aren't 10x, they're more. Instantaneous. Says so in his first appearance.

cause slade knows his powers now? huh


it's not exactly like slade's midnighter or anything.. and the fact that gorgon healed from all the damage he took is a pretty clear indication to a healing factor.

jinzin
not to mention the fact that we don't even know it wouldn't work on slade regardless...

leonidas
well, to be fair, the dude's name is gorgon and he wears glasses . . .

i saw him on a cover, never knew a THING about him and guessed his power. you wanna choose a name that gives away your powers, that's the price you pay!

laughing

jinzin
Originally posted by leonidas
well, to be fair, the dude's name is gorgon and he wears glasses . . .

i saw him on a cover, never knew a THING about him and guessed his power. you wanna choose a name that gives away your powers, that's the price you pay!

laughing

how the hell does slade know his name? huh

long pig
Originally posted by jinzin
how the hell does slade know his name? huh

jinzin
hm fair enough

wolverine8888
gorgon is hell faster then slade. the guards pulled the trigger on him felt like 10 minuts to gorgon. also i still not seeing were slade beats gorgon in. gorgon is superhuymanly smart I don't even know if slade takes it in intel. he sure as hell does not take it in reflex strength speed or fighting skill

soleran30
Originally posted by wolverine8888
gorgon is hell faster then slade. the guards pulled the trigger on him felt like 10 minuts to gorgon. also i still not seeing were slade beats gorgon in. gorgon is superhuymanly smart I don't even know if slade takes it in intel. he sure as hell does not take it in reflex strength speed or fighting skill


OH of course not he just has the reflex's to hang with the flash, kid impulse and other speedsters........

His intelligence must suck he makes plans to take out the teen titans (who could wipe out x-men minus phoenix) as well as the JLA who could and would wipe out x-men with ease.

I mean Slade's fighting skills only let him take Batman(king of prep), Nightwing he has hung with Wonder Woman for awhile as well.

Yeah his strength is only around Five Tons wowsmile LOL Wolverine8888 what the hell are you talking about........Gorgon lost to Wolverine.............WOLVERINE solo........that wouldn't even be a warm up for Slade on a bad day. yes bunny

wolverine8888
lol ya thats why wolverine punked his ass when they fought.
so now ur syaing detah stroke moves and light speed?
gorgon faster with out a dought. also who said detah stroke had any prep in this match at all?
not that it would matter
big whoop he took out batman who not even the best fighter in dc. also I don't think u watch the last fight he ahd with night wing ended with night wing on the wining side. night wing would not last .00000000000000004 verse gorgon.

scotsmn
Originally posted by soleran30
OH of course not he just has the reflex's to hang with the flash, kid impulse and other speedsters........

His intelligence must suck he makes plans to take out the teen titans (who could wipe out x-men minus phoenix) as well as the JLA who could and would wipe out x-men with ease.

I mean Slade's fighting skills only let him take Batman(king of prep), Nightwing he has hung with Wonder Woman for awhile as well.

Yeah his strength is only around Five Tons wowsmile LOL Wolverine8888 what the hell are you talking about........Gorgon lost to Wolverine.............WOLVERINE solo........that wouldn't even be a warm up for Slade on a bad day. yes bunny

You've got it backwards. Wolverine eats up Slade and his one eye for breakfast.

soleran30
Originally posted by wolverine8888
lol ya thats why wolverine punked his ass when they fought.
so now ur syaing detah stroke moves and light speed?
gorgon faster with out a dought. also who said detah stroke had any prep in this match at all?
not that it would matter
big whoop he took out batman who not even the best fighter in dc. also I don't think u watch the last fight he ahd with night wing ended with night wing on the wining side. night wing would not last .00000000000000004 verse gorgon.

OK side note I liked it better when you spell checked.

I never said he moves at light speed I said his reflex's along with his brains allows him to hang with Flash and Impulse. Period no one in Marvel is near as fast as them save Runner, Makari and SS.

I also never mentioned prep but thats ok I didn't mean to disrupt wolverine fanboy land......land where Wolverine is the greatest and his foes the mightiest and ONLY he can defeat them LOL yeah ok ..... yes bunny

wolverine8888
so ur saying slade cna defeat flash now?
also i lvoe how u said slade would destroy wolverine but when they foguht I recall slade beingthe one on the ground

soleran30
Originally posted by wolverine8888
so ur saying slade cna defeat flash now?
also i lvoe how u said slade would destroy wolverine but when they foguht I recall slade beingthe one on the ground


Slade did defeat Flash oncesmile Thanks


WOW HOW many times do I need to tell you about that scene you love so much? I don't know here we go again........Slade went down (without being knocked out) and anylyzed Wolverine and then got back in the fight......period thanks.

wolverine8888
actauly slade said him silf that if he had not moved slightly that hit would of surly ko him. he barly managed not to be ko and actauly stayed on the ground till wolverine left.

long pig
Blatent bullet time reflexes.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7000/deathstrokebullettime8uu.th.jpg

Heals from bones in a page.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2610/deathstrokeheal0cu.th.jpg

Strong as 100 men? Seems like it.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/895/deathstrokestrength9kq.th.jpg

Wild Cowboy
Wolverine fanboys must have shitted themselves seeing that healing factor pic !!!!

long pig
You should see the scan saying Slade moves at the speed of thought.

scotsmn
Someone post the picture of Wolverine almost knocking him out.. I didn't even know they had fought in the past.

long pig
I showed it already, dude. Damn. read more.

Wolverine sucker punched him but Slade was too fast for it to k.o him.

He said basically that if he wasn't superhuman, it would have ko'd him.

scotsmn
Originally posted by long pig
I showed it already, dude. Damn. read more.

Wolverine sucker punched him but Slade was too fast for it to k.o him.

He said basically that if he wasn't superhuman, it would have ko'd him.

So where's the scan of Wolverine hitting him? smile

Wild Cowboy
Slade beated the entire JLA, can Gorgon beat the X-Mmen ??

scotsmn
Originally posted by Wild Cowboy
Slade beated the entire JLA, can Gorgon beat the X-Mmen ??

JLA and X-men are two different teams....

Wild Cowboy
CAN GORGON BEAT A COMIC COMPANY MAIN TEAM !!!

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