Kyle Katarn v.s. AOTC Obi-Wan

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Ballister
Alright, I searched this, and didn't find anything on this. AOTC Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Kyle Katarn, who would win?

The Creator
Kyle Katarn.

darthsith19
Kyle. You know how many Dark Jedi he killed? Obi gets pwnd.

Darth Brainiac
Obi1 would pwn Katarns sory ass in 10 seconds,Oh wait it's AOTC Obi1, then it's a tie

darthsith19
Originally posted by Darth Brainiac
Obi1 would pwn Katarns sory ass in 10 seconds,Oh wait it's AOTC Obi1, then it's a tie
If you don't know anything about Kyle then don't post in this thread.

Ballister
Let's change it to... RotS Obi-Wan. Each has a jawa on their side.

exanda kane
What Kyle is this? Sure, NJO Kyle would own pretty much the whole PT Council (hyperbole), but maybe Jedi Outcast Kyle is even with Obi-Wan.

Let's not forget that AotC Obi has killed a talented (if overrated) Sith.

darthsith19
Originally posted by Ballister
Let's change it to... RotS Obi-Wan. Each has a jawa on their side.
Obi-Wan wins. This might be a little closer than Kyle vs. AOTC Obi-Wan but if it is I'd say not by much. But maybe I underestimate Kyle.

Ballister
It's JA/JO Kyle.

exanda kane
Then Obi-Wan wins...

I know Kyle has killed Dark Jedi, but really come on, look how pathetically those Dark jedi were designed!

They've got all these weird lightsabersand stuff. It just isnt Star Wars.

Ganner Rhysode
Originally posted by Ballister
Let's change it to... RotS Obi-Wan. Each has a jawa on their side.

Please, people like you should stop ruining topics. God, all this "Who would win, 90 jawas or 80 jawas plus R2D2" threads are getting extremely annoying, ridiculous, and stupid.

Anyway, how did those Dark Jedi get "all these weird lightsabersand stuff?" They had... Uh. Normal lightsabers. I don't know what you're talking about. o_O

Anyway, it would appear a lot of you don't know much about Kyle, but trust me, he's probably, at JO/JA time, just a little above an even match for AOTC Obi-Wan, considering he allowed himself to use both sides of the Force (while still following the light path) and was a bitchin' saberist who took out two extremely powerful Dark Jedi, many many other Dark Jedi, took out an Imperial Remnant Admiral and his ship, along with hoards and hoards of Stormtroopers, took out seven other extremely powerful Dark Jedi in the past, took out the Imperial Moff at the head of the Dark Trooper project, and single-handedly stole the Death Star plans that came in oso handy.

... Hell, after thinkg about all that, I'm sure he would win. AOTC Obi-Wan would put up a good fight, but he just wouldn't be able to keep it up...

SnakeEyes
^ Agreed. Obi-Wan (AOTC) would definitely lose this fight.

Ballister
The reason I put the Jawas in was to use them as flesh bags... (shields)

exanda kane
Yeah. Just your average Jedi here.

Ganner Rhysode
Uh... But those AREN'T ordinary Dark Jedi. You've never even played the game, apparently. <_< Here, let me post some basic descriptions of the seven Dark Jedi Kyle fought. I got this off of Wikipedia.

Yun
Yun is very eager to learn and to apply his knowledge of The Force and his force skills in combat. He is a skilled fencer and has almost learned to master the skill of Force jumping.

Pic
Unlike Gorc, Pic is small, fast, and mobile as well as immensely aggressive. It is Pic that takes care of all conversation and other tasks that require some intelligence. Most of the time, he sits on Gorc's shoulder, using him as a means of transportation.

In combat, Pic relies on his mobility and Force powers of cunning and prefers to attack opponents immobilized by Gorc. Pic also has the ability to vibrate his body to the point of being invisible to aide in his attacks against his foes.

Gorc
Gorc is huge, slow and heavy, preferring not to engage in conversation, which he leaves to his brother. He is the less aggressive of the pair, but that does not make him any less dangerous.

While different in every sense, Gorc and Pic form a symbiosis in combat, Gorc relying on brute force and immobilizing Force powers so that Pic may rush to attack their opponent, which the player will experience when they attack him simultaneously in the same level.

Boc
Boc is a male Twi'lek with pale skin, reddish eyes and dressed in ragged clothes. He is portrayed in cutscenes in the game as a slightly mentally deranged individual who seems to find amusement in destruction and violence.

His fighting style is described as unorthodox and unpredictable. He is the first official denizen of the Star Wars universe that wields two lightsabers in combat (thus preceding Anakin Skywalker in his duel against Count Dooku in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones). By 1997-standards, his combat style is rather impressive and effective. His main strategy in combat is jumping about incessantly.

Maw
He is short-tempered and tends to go berserk if facing too much pressure. Maw relies solely on his strength and aggression rather than any technique, and he tends not to block opponents' attacks; but when he manages to do it, his blocks are almost impenetrable.

In a duel with Jedi master Qu Rahn, Maw was severely injured, losing both of his legs. The legs were replaced with a mechanical floating device that enables him to use a devastating spinning lightsaber attack.

Sariss
She is quiet and reserved, but a formidable opponent in combat and is deemed the most skilled lightsaber fighter of the seven Dark Jedi, relying almost exclusively on her fencing skills instead of using additional force powers.

Jerec
Physically blind, he perceives the world around him thanks to the Force, similarly to Darth Traya (he is able to do this because he is a Miraluka, same as Visas Marr). Serving the Galactic Empire and the murderer of Morgan Katarn, after the fall of Palpatine his goal was to absorb the power of the Valley of the Jedi and begin a new Empire.

Jerec was trained by Palpatine under Darth Vader along with a number of other dark students in an attempt to ensure the Dark Side's reign over the galaxy should anything happen to either Vader or Palpatine. Jerec often studied from one of the Emperor's many Dark side texts, the enormous Dark Side Compendium (which Luke Skywalker would later study from at the tutelage of the reborn Emperor, on Byss).


Also, he reached this point, before Kyle used the Jedi technique to cut their enemies off from the Force, although Kyle's was much weaker and very temporary:

and for one lucid moment, absolute omniscience was his. The will of the Force, Chaos, the ancient civilizations of the Rakata and Xim, what lay beyond the galactic barrier, and the origins of the universe - - Jerec understood them all, and endowed with Force powers beyond imagination, he would have ruled accordingly.


Anyway, I don't know about you, but those don't sound like "average Jedi" to me...

OBI-Ninja
Katarn has this.

exanda kane
I'm sorry, your incorrect here, played this game a few years back, also note, I like the way you fail to understand generalisation and hyperbole, both used for dramatic effect mind you, in standard english.

So, as I'll say; stop trying to be smug. Pic and Gorc were in the game as Dark Jedi, and I hope you'll be able to make the inference that they are, and "my god. Jedi Knight blah blah (I actually cant remember what one it was; i'm that scene...) was a crap game...

And I played it when it came out and it seriously sucked then. It's a game. Obi-Wan would win.

Se7in
Katarn wins this.

OBI-Ninja
Originally posted by exanda kane
I'm sorry, your incorrect here, played this game a few years back, also note, I like the way you fail to understand generalisation and hyperbole, both used for dramatic effect mind you, in standard english.

So, as I'll say; stop trying to be smug. Pic and Gorc were in the game as Dark Jedi, and I hope you'll be able to make the inference that they are, and "my god. Jedi Knight blah blah (I actually cant remember what one it was; i'm that scene...) was a crap game...

And I played it when it came out and it seriously sucked then. It's a game. Obi-Wan would win.

I'm sorry, but games are part of the EU, and never was JO or JA contradicted by a more canonical source. So the general events of JO or JA are still part of the story. And If you're gonna say "OMG JO and JA sucked therefore Obi-Wan wins" then you're submitting to logican fallacy. This is like saying KOTOR sucks, therefore Jar Jar would pwn Revan.

exanda kane
Originally posted by OBI-Ninja
I'm sorry, but games are part of the EU, and never was JO or JA contradicted by a more canonical source. So the general events of JO or JA are still part of the story. And If you're gonna say "OMG JO and JA sucked therefore Obi-Wan wins" then you're submitting to logican fallacy. This is like saying KOTOR sucks, therefore Jar Jar would pwn Revan.

In fact you miss understand me. I lost interest therefore merely added that Obi-Wan would best him.

I was implying that these Dark Jedi should actually in contradicted in style as they are just not Star Wars. Pic and Gorc belong in Mad Max! They are not 'real' in the star wars sense, so an uber video game character killing characters as badly designed as that should not be placed upon Obi-Wan dishing out maximum ownage to many bad fellows in the films.

It is a fault of the Jedi Knight series for being overly liberate with a Star Wars license.

Se7in
Oh, and I assume teddy bears than can take down AT-ST's aren't "real" in a Star Wars sense either. This isn't Earth's Dark Jedi, it's a ****ing galaxy! Read the first six words of every movie.

In a GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY!!!!!

exanda kane
Originally posted by Se7in
Oh, and I assume teddy bears than can take down AT-ST's aren't "real" in a Star Wars sense either. This isn't Earth's Dark Jedi, it's a ****ing galaxy! Read the first six words of every movie.

In a GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY!!!!!

And I assume you lost your balls and intellectual capacity at a young age aswell then did you? Why do you think that Star Wars became so significant if science-fiction? Because the main villain wasn't a big polysterene box with some LED light's on the front.

May I point out that a number of film credits come before the rolling prologue; So Lucasfilm, THX etc. may give some grounding that this is a Movie, therefore has to acquire some realistic concepts inorder to keep the audience from having epileptic fits!

Ganner Rhysode
And who are you to judge as to "what is and isn't Star Wars?" Did Lucas tell you that you got to make decisions like this, and that if you said something "wasn't Star Wars," that it wasn't?

Also, keep in mind that everyone in this topic disagrees with you, save for one person who says it would be a tie. It's quite clear that you're not exactly sure about what you're talking about, so you should probably quit while you're ahead.

Oh, and your saying a game is crap (which is an opinion) should have no weight on the characters/what they accomplished and is considered EU.

That's like saying that if you don't like the X-Wing books that Wedge never actually took over Rogue Squadron, and they never took Courscant/Imperial City from the Empire, and they never took out the Iron Fist...

Your logic is generally poor, your arguements are poor, and no one agrees with your poor excuses for points. Why don't you stop trying to make them?

exanda kane
Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
And who are you to judge as to "what is and isn't Star Wars?" Did Lucas tell you that you got to make decisions like this, and that if you said something "wasn't Star Wars," that it wasn't?

Also, keep in mind that everyone in this topic disagrees with you, save for one person who says it would be a tie. It's quite clear that you're not exactly sure about what you're talking about, so you should probably quit while you're ahead.

Oh, and your saying a game is crap (which is an opinion) should have no weight on the characters/what they accomplished and is considered EU.

That's like saying that if you don't like the X-Wing books that Wedge never actually took over Rogue Squadron, and they never took Courscant/Imperial City from the Empire, and they never took out the Iron Fist...

Your logic is generally poor, your arguements are poor, and no one agrees with your poor excuses for points. Why don't you stop trying to make them?

I dont have points. I have opinions. You dont seem to understand that. It is a forum. Quit while I'm ahead you say? No. I'm not ahead. But if I was...

"Right, quitting while I'm AHEAD, going to bed now, it's late, America's supposed to be invaded the UK tomorrow" and bugger off into the night.

And still, you do not understand what I am saying because of your own personal predjudices and idiocy. And btw, I am a fan to judge what I think fits with the Star Wars universe. Weird bipedal Dark Jedi clinging to Troll like Dark Jedi isnt Star Wars, much like the Vong.

And I am fully aware that everybody disagress with me, but this does not discontent me, if only the opposite. It is quite clear you do not understand what you are supposed to be talking about. And beg your pardon, but going by a game that was made when they had the narrative quality of pungent turd against the aspects of a film is slightly absurd. Don't get me wrong, again, if you were merely saying that this is JO/JA Kyle and he has not killed a bunch of villians from the first games, then I would give you credibility, but as you dont understand that I will not.

stunna1773
Originally posted by exanda kane


"Right, quitting while I'm AHEAD, going to bed now, it's late, America's supposed to be invaded the UK tomorrow" and bugger off into the night.



thats not funny. that would be one of the worst things to say on this forum. its like calling some one on the kmc a n***** but 1000 times worst.

stunna1773
freaken out of here

exanda kane
btw, ive said it many times before. im seriously gonna go to bed thinking im gonna have some conservative army dude waiting outside my house waving the star spangled banner

OBI-Ninja
Originally posted by exanda kane
In fact you miss understand me. I lost interest therefore merely added that Obi-Wan would best him.

I was implying that these Dark Jedi should actually in contradicted in style as they are just not Star Wars. Pic and Gorc belong in Mad Max! They are not 'real' in the star wars sense, so an uber video game character killing characters as badly designed as that should not be placed upon Obi-Wan dishing out maximum ownage to many bad fellows in the films.

It is a fault of the Jedi Knight series for being overly liberate with a Star Wars license.

No, no, no, I said the game in general is considered cannon , in other words, the main plot was real, and the main villains (ie Jerec and Desann) were people that Katarn actually defeated. Indeed, the gameplay was exaggerated, but the storyline still stands

exanda kane
I will take Desann and Jerec yes. They were good, normal villains.

But Pic and Gorc and some of the others? It's like the designers went on pills?

OBI-Ninja
You can ignore those since they were probably very insignificant Jedi, but defeating Jerec or Desann isn't something a normal Jedi could do, I'm sure. Desann has power from the Valley of the Jedi, and Luke in JO even warned Kyle not to take Desann alone. And this is Luke a good ten years or so after ROTJ. That's gotta give Desann some credit.

Ganner Rhysode
Not to mention that Bok, Sariss, and Yun don't seem to go into your "not Star Wars" category, whatever determines that.

Besides, there are a LOT of species' in Star Wars, many of whom haven't even been given names, like the Wolfman in the original ANH, or various creatures seen in the background in a cantina. Who's to say that Maw, Gorc, and Pic couldn't be among those weird species?

exanda kane
The reason why Star Wars stands above Star Trek and Babylon 5 etc.

Desaan is a powerful Jedi, as is Jerec, and I do give Katarn credit for this, however Kyle as had a lot of power from the Valley Of The Jedi, and I still believe that Obi-Wan would win this, because of his experience and lightsaber duelling ability, in which he beats Katarn in.

Ganner Rhysode
Kyle's "power" from the Valley of the Jedi was lesso actual, raw power and moreso re-establishing his connection with the Force that he gained in the previous game, bringing him back up to his very core basic potential. And, in the game, it was just that - a very basic connection, and he could only use the very basic abilities. He had to work to re-establish his connection to the Force to become as strong, if not stronger, than he was when he fought Jerec.

Brotz
DF Kyle Katarn would put up a good fight, but fall to the Kenobi's level of mastery of the Soresu and the Ataru as of AOTC.

JK Kyle Katarn could take down Kenobi after a long battle, but if he makes a critical error, Kenobi takes this one.

NJO Kyle Katarn is superior to AOTC Kenobi due to his experience. Enough said.

kamikz
I belive Kyle takes this.

A lot of people seem to underestimate Desann here, he is one hell of a fighter. Luke was not able to defeate him, and I belive that Luke was actually aiming for the kill, not much, near nothing, points to that Luke wanted to convert him back to the light side. He said himself that neither of them should face him in combat now that he had been to the valley of the jedi and was stronger than ever.
Luke had seen him kill masters and he was responsible of many, many deaths in the galaxy.

During their fight (which is canon) Luke seemd to have a lot of trouble, he was falling several times and barley got up each time, even if he wasent attacking (which I think I can see he does) he had a hard time deflecting.
Even though it doesent mean much, Desann was laughing through the whole duel and smiled when Luke fell under the boulders, not showing a sign of fautige or relife.

Kyle defeated this guy fair and square (not really since Kyle had been fighting for a hell long time without much rest) with only a few days of traning after regaining his force connection.
Kyle has shown a pretty tough defence against force powers and saber strikes, I belive he would take down AOTC Obi-Wan.

Did Desann know any sort of cloaking ability cause when Kyle asked Luke why he attacked him alone when they had agreed they would not try it alone, Luke answered that he couldent even sens him coming.

exanda kane
You really cant take into consideration the way Kyle fights and how he blocks etc.

He did beat Desaan however. Yet we cannot merely assume that Luke intended to kill; the conventions of the game would not allow Luke to try and turn Desaan. Desaan is the villain and Kyle is the hero, you can't have Luke converting Desaan back into the light there'd be know villain...

Ballister
It is JO/JA Kyle, just so you know.

kamikz
Originally posted by exanda kane
You really cant take into consideration the way Kyle fights and how he blocks etc.

He did beat Desaan however. Yet we cannot merely assume that Luke intended to kill; the conventions of the game would not allow Luke to try and turn Desaan. Desaan is the villain and Kyle is the hero, you can't have Luke converting Desaan back into the light there'd be know villain...


I was more pointing at that because he defeated Desann, he must have had a pretty formidable defence or offense.

You can't really argue that way. Luke is the main hero in the OT, you couldent have him convert Darth Vader to the light side in ESB, that would ruin the movie. Still that doesent mean that Luke could beat him. You can't say that the game did or didn't want him to turn him, then you could say that in every battle in Star Wars and we wouldent know a shit about who was greater

Desann was probably greater than Luke was in JK:JA considering all Luke said about Desann proving that Luke did not want to fight him alone. He knew what Desann was about to do, I don't think he would be giving him a chance to escape, especially not since he knew how powerful he was.

Darth Faunus
Luke wouldn't want to give Desaan a chance to escape, but he would give him the opportunity to redeem himself. Remember, the said Dark Jedi was once a student at the Academy. Skywalker would never condemn a former student to death that quickly, especially if he believed there was a chance to fix things.

And your ESB reference is irrelevant. As of the duel, Luke had yet to realize that Darth Vader was his father. All he knew of the Dark Lord was that he was very evil, he'd destroyed the Jedi Order, and he'd killed the one man who had all the answers, all the knowledge, that Luke could only ever dream to possess. Not to mention a very close friend.

No, all Luke wanted from that duel was Vader's head. The Sith Lord, however, wanted to turn Luke to the Dark Side. You have your facts mixed up.

kamikz
Yeah yeah.

But comon now, wouldent Luke at least try to talk to him if he wanted to turn him back? You don't really have any proof except that he was an old student and that it would ruin the game (like Vader in ESB, sorry got the facts wrong). He knew Desann had power from the valley of the jedi, he knew he had ships and an army of force users heading the way to the academy and a full operational battle station and didn't even know Desann was there before. I can't really see where it comes in that at this moment, Luke wants to turn Desann, that would take a lot of time.

Besides, Luke said himself that neither of them would face him alone, that he was more powerful than ever. Luke fell to the floor many times during that duel, looked like he had a freaking hard time, Desann didn't though. And the fact that Desann ran after he had bueried Luke under piles was because he had an invasion to do, not that he was scared (if you would bring that up).

This is my point of view of course, go ahead and tell me if I had gotten something messed up or facts wrong to prove that Luke did indeed did not give his all, I'm open to pursuations (spelled it right???).

fisto/katarnrul
Katarn could beat obi-wan no matter what kyle has seen all sides of the force. he is the most skilled lightsaber duelist of the njo and hes on the jedi council

kamikz
It's funny you say that regarding your name. You are a little baised on Kit and Katarn arent you?

I agree with the outcome of the duel though.

(Note that this is not NJO Kyle)

overlord
Fanboys are funny.. evil face
They never include a single argument.

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