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Neither one separately can take Mace, but the two of them are very skilled jedi, and as a team they are even more amazing.
If Mace can seperate them like Dooku did, he'll have a shot. But otherwise, I don't see it happening for Mace.

MACE PWNS!!! he gets a vappad on them and they are dead!!!!!

zOMG!! Anakun pawnd Mace Windo in teh office!!!!11!11!11
Dark Envy gets electrocuted by Plo Koon afterwards.

YAY!

The duo. Anakin's alomost as strong as Mace and Obi-Wan's pretty close. Together they'd win but not pwn.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
MACE PWNS!!! he gets a vappad on them and they are dead!!!!!
WTF?
Last I heard Obi has the greatest defence form and he could hold his own longer against Mace then he did against Dooku. Anakin would do just as well as Obi would. Obi and Ani would defeat Mace. Mace doesn't use force moves like Dooku and it would be very difficult to separte the two long enough for Mace to defeat one.

dooku wasn't even using makashi in the start of the episode 3 fight. mace can still use the force just like dooku (push and pull i mean. not choke) He can do it just as easily.

Wait, is this thread good?

OMG! seven posts this time! It must be good!!

No, what I mean is, no one EVER aruged in my thread. Wtf?

stfu..

Originally posted by overlord
stfu..

Stfu, you must

This fight is primitive at best. These three-dimensional fighters will all get spanked with moon rocks. ROTS Mace is a level three moon master, victory is certain for him.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
dooku wasn't even using makashi in the start of the episode 3 fight. mace can still use the force just like dooku (push and pull i mean. not choke) He can do it just as easily.
1) Any proof Dooku wans't using Makashi?
2) So you think Mace has as good or better Force powers as Dooku?

Mace wouldn't last at all against the two. One on one all three are very evenly matched but two one one then the one is done.

Originally posted by Master Duelist
Mace wouldn't last at all against the two. One on one all three are very evenly matched but two one one then the one is done. no offense, but get your facts straight before you type.

Originally posted by darthsith19
1) Any proof Dooku wans't using Makashi?
2) So you think Mace has as good or better Force powers as Dooku? 1) novelization and since the movie does not contridict then it is fact.
2) he wasn't second in the order only because of his saber skills.

ill go with ani and obi beacuse of simply numbers. mace vs. either of them 1 on 1, mace would win. but he cant handle two very good jedi.

Originally posted by calvin44
ill go with ani and obi beacuse of simply numbers. mace vs. either of them 1 on 1, mace would win. but he cant handle two very good jedi.

Because of numbers? Thats like saying Mace would lose to two Younglings.

Originally posted by Dark Envy
Because of numbers? Thats like saying Mace would lose to two Younglings. Wait, aren't you a sock? Howcome you are still allowed to be here?

Originally posted by Dark Envy
Because of numbers? Thats like saying Mace would lose to two Younglings.

No its not.
You saying that is like two younglings are a match for Obi- Wan and Anakin.

The movie sets all 3 characters up as equal. It does seem a bit harsh on Shaft.

Originally posted by exanda kane
The movie sets all 3 characters up as equal. It does seem a bit harsh on Shaft. ? what do you mean "as equals"?

Its quite self explanatory.

They are all fairly equal in duelling ability and conditioning. That is what 3 years of war will do to you. True, Mace and Obi-Wan both have more wisdom and experience, but Anakin also has great potential and has a way of beating the odds (I do hope you didnt disregard the Clone Wars miniseries).

And is putting a question mark in front and at the end of your 'sentence' normal this day and age...

Mace should be able to do this. first he makes sure he gets drivin' back by anakin and obi, of course he is able to do this. Anakin then thinks he can kill him cuz he is the most talented jedi. anakin becomes overconfident and then when he lets his guard down in his confident attack, mace kills him with ease. after that obi-wan forfeits the match cuz he cant win alone. That's the trick with anakin just let him think you are weak and take advantage of it.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
1) novelization and since the movie does not contridict then it is fact.
2) he wasn't second in the order only because of his saber skills.
1) The movie doesn't contridict what the TPM novel says about Qui-Gon's saber skills rivaling TPM Mace's either. If you can accept that I can accept what you said (not sure if your one of the ones who has argued this with me - I know Ianus has).
2) I'm not saying he has bad Force skills but I don't think they're as good as Dooku's. Sidious's and Yoda's are the best, then Dooku's and then probably Mace's.

why do you need force powers when you can deflect them with your saber?? It's better to own with a saber I think.

But with Anakin and Obi-Wan working together I think Mace would amazingly hard pressed.

I doubt that Mace could take out Obi-Wan if he is paired with Anakin, as he is amazingly efficient with Soresu. But Anakin is the problem. However its a good estimation to assume that Mace and Dooku are roughly equal, and Anakin managed to beat Dooku rather quickly when dipping into the Dark Side a little. This would either work or it wouldnt or Mace.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Its quite self explanatory.

They are all fairly equal in duelling ability and conditioning. That is what 3 years of war will do to you. True, Mace and Obi-Wan both have more wisdom and experience, but Anakin also has great potential and has a way of beating the odds (I do hope you didnt disregard the Clone Wars miniseries).

And is putting a question mark in front and at the end of your 'sentence' normal this day and age... That is bull. Mave beat sidious. Obi beat anakin. BIG DIFFERENCE! Mace is MUCH stronger then them. He can do this just as easy as dooku.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
That is bull. Mave beat sidious. Obi beat anakin. BIG DIFFERENCE! Mace is MUCH stronger then them. He can do this just as easy as dooku.
Both of those fights could have gone either way, and it has been rumoured (by GL himself apparently) that Sidious was merely allowing himself to be owned by Mace. They are a lot of factors to count in both those battles, in fact I find it hard to believe your lack of imagination on this fight.

Just because you seem unable to understand anything more than is presented to you on the screen, it doesnt mean you have to act stubborn and use some irrational-fanboy-thinking.

It was said that mace OVERPOWERED sidious. Sids didn't throw the fight. Mace won fair and square. The fact that sidious had nothing to throw in the room put him at a disadvantege. True the fight with sidious would have been different had it been in a full parking lot or something and yes that does mean that the fight goes either way depending on the location so i will give you that.

Anakin and Obi can also go either way so lets call them equal. By that logic we must call mace and sidious equal.

If this was Sidious vs obi and anakin we would all be agreed on the outcome. Mace can make up for his lack of uber force powers with his uber saberskills. We can also agree that mace has equal if not better force mastery then either of them. Mace has it made for him here.

I was not implying that it was Sidious' envirnment that maybe caused the fight to go in Mace's way - for thinking about it; in that small envirnoment I would imagine Anakin, maybe even Obi-Wan beating Sidious (maybe Obi winning is pushing it a bit far).

I agree however that Anakin and Obi-Wan couldnt take Sidious because of those Uberforce powers, however they'd be able to cope with Mace's saber skills.

who won. Mace's uber saber or sidious uber force?

No sidious is not that bad in lightsaber fighting that he would lose to anakin or obi. Mace was just very intense and did not let sidious do even a force push. Obi will and anakin will let sidious use the force.

Excuse me, but Anakin would take Sidious in that small space. I am severely doubtful that Anakin would not. It is incredibly likely that Sidious would try and goad Anakin into tapping into the Dark Side to try and make him become reckless, but I think that Anakin, if tapped into Dark Side, would push Sidious out of the way like he did with Dooku.

Obi-Wan is too passive and defensive to be able to lay an onslaught of blows onto Sidious, however he would be able to defend himself against.

And Anakin and Obi-Wan both rank among the top five duelists in the Jedi Order, they are not bad fighters, yet I hope this is just hyperbole.

However also realise that the critical factor in the Mace/Sidious fight was Anakin's intervention.

And yes, considering how good duelists Obi-Wan and Anakin are they would be able to hold Mace, yet I doubt they could both cope with Sidious' lightning.

sidious is an awsome dueler (i am not a fanboy) who beat three of the greatest PT jedi in seconds. That is without the force. He can beat anakin easy. anakin attacks and sidious uses a force push to throw anakin out of the window before anakin even reaches him. Great fight. lol

Originally posted by darthsith19
The duo. Anakin's alomost as strong as Mace and Obi-Wan's pretty close. Together they'd win but not pwn.

You've lost all credibility in my eyes.

Originally posted by Escape81
You've lost all credibility in my eyes.


He is right. As much as we hate Anakin's sorry ass, he was growing incredibly powerful during ROTS and may have been as powerful as Mace.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Excuse me, but Anakin would take Sidious in that small space. I am severely doubtful that Anakin would not. It is incredibly likely that Sidious would try and goad Anakin into tapping into the Dark Side to try and make him become reckless, but I think that Anakin, if tapped into Dark Side, would push Sidious out of the way like he did with Dooku.

Obi-Wan is too passive and defensive to be able to lay an onslaught of blows onto Sidious, however he would be able to defend himself against.

And Anakin and Obi-Wan both rank among the top five duelists in the Jedi Order, they are not bad fighters, yet I hope this is just hyperbole.

However also realise that the critical factor in the Mace/Sidious fight was Anakin's intervention.

And yes, considering how good duelists Obi-Wan and Anakin are they would be able to hold Mace, yet I doubt they could both cope with Sidious' lightning.

1. Sidious's saber skills are superior to both Obi-Wan's and Anakin's. Gillard and Lucas confirmed this.

2. Mace is, at the very least, on Count Dooku's level.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
sidious is an awsome dueler (i am not a fanboy) who beat three of the greatest PT jedi in seconds. That is without the force. He can beat anakin easy. anakin attacks and sidious uses a force push to throw anakin out of the window before anakin even reaches him. Great fight. lol

They were not some of the greatest Jedi of the PT era - unless you count the top fifteen - and he is an awesome dueler, even if he looks retarted when prodding the thing about.

And he used a Force Jump to leap towards then, otherwise he's way past Olympic qualifying distance for the long jump. And Sidious could never beat Anakin easy. Yet again I hope this is merely hyperbole on your behalf. You do however, seem to be dismissing both Anakin and Obi-Wan. Why? They were both the greatest war hero's of the Republic during the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan was nicknamed The Negotiator for his firm principles of choosing diplomacy over violence. But when need be, he could fight. I would not be able to psuh Sidious back like Mace, but he would be able to hold his ground. Did you ever expect Obi-Wan to panhandle Grievous that easily?
Anakin ends the Clone Wars as a duelist rivalling Mace and Yoda, aswell as Obi-Wan, with much more potential coming from him.

And I count Mace, Obi-Wan and Anakin as some of the only Jedi to be able to withstand Sidious' initial attack. Bearing in mind that had Sidious not have had to dispose of those Jedi beforehand, he probably would have lobbed Mace out of a window.

Originally posted by Sorgo
He is right. As much as we hate Anakin's sorry ass, he was growing incredibly powerful during ROTS and may have been as powerful as Mace.

I don't hate Anakin's sorry ass. He is on par with them in saber ability. But he isn't equal to any of the big four (Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Dooku). He is a level 9, but is not superior to either four. Mace would best Anakin, I'm certain of it.

Originally posted by Escape81
I don't hate Anakin's sorry ass. He is on par with them in saber ability. But he isn't equal to any of the big four (Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Dooku). He is a level 9, but is not superior to either four. Mace would best Anakin, I'm certain of it.

Mmmm.... I don't know about that anymore.

Originally posted by exanda kane
They were not some of the greatest Jedi of the PT era - unless you count the top fifteen - and he is an awesome dueler, even if he looks retarted when prodding the thing about.

And he used a Force Jump to leap towards then, otherwise he's way past Olympic qualifying distance for the long jump. And Sidious could never beat Anakin easy. Yet again I hope this is merely hyperbole on your behalf. You do however, seem to be dismissing both Anakin and Obi-Wan. Why? They were both the greatest war hero's of the Republic during the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan was nicknamed The Negotiator for his firm principles of choosing diplomacy over violence. But when need be, he could fight. I would not be able to psuh Sidious back like Mace, but he would be able to hold his ground. Did you ever expect Obi-Wan to panhandle Grievous that easily?
Anakin ends the Clone Wars as a duelist rivalling Mace and Yoda, aswell as Obi-Wan, with much more potential coming from him.

And I count Mace, Obi-Wan and Anakin as some of the only Jedi to be able to withstand Sidious' initial attack. Bearing in mind that had Sidious not have had to dispose of those Jedi beforehand, he probably would have lobbed Mace out of a window.


Are you high?

Originally posted by Escape81
I don't hate Anakin's sorry ass. He is on par with them in saber ability. But he isn't equal to any of the big four (Yoda, Sidious, Mace, Dooku). He is a level 9, but is not superior to either four. Mace would best Anakin, I'm certain of it.

Im a not. It would be an incredibly good fight, and if Anakin tapped into the Dark Side, he could possibly crap the hell out of Mace, as he did with Dooku.

And I think it was meant that the general opinion of anakin is that hes an annoying shit.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Mmmm.... I don't know about that anymore.

Anakin has, again, progressed to be a level 9. Gillard has confirmed that the difference between level 8 and 9 is raw aggression and the usage of one's environment, because battles between level 9s are so damn close. Anakin is strong and quick, but is reckless. He is on par with them, but I doubt he's their equals.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Im a not. It would be an incredibly good fight, and if Anakin tapped into the Dark Side, he could possibly crap the hell out of Mace, as he did with Dooku.

And I think it was meant that the general opinion of anakin is that hes an annoying shit.

No. Anakin, in my eyes, is not annoying. He's undeniably clever, and his potential blows Yoda and Sidious out of the water. But he is simply not as experienced, and Mace edges as close to the Dark Side as Anakin does. And forgive me, but the fight between Count Dooku and Anakin lasted a long time, even with Anakin having support.

No. He'd never own Dooku, Sidious, Mace, or Yoda.

Exanda sidious can manehandle GG as well.
Best PT jedi in my opinion
yoda
mace
obi
anakin
Depa
luminara
Cin
vos
bulq
Kit

One of them is in my top ten the other would, yes, be in 11-15.
You can look retarted but if you get a good end result...
I am not dismissing them. I just belive that in this fight they will get lose badly. You are in fact overestimating the duo. yea they are warheros but against a power force user they are chump. You have lost, just like lots of people here, a lot of respect in my eyes.

Originally posted by Escape81
No. Anakin, in my eyes, is not annoying. He's undeniably clever, and his potential blows Yoda and Sidious out of the water. But he is simply not as experienced, and Mace edges as close to the Dark Side as Anakin does. And forgive me, but the fight between Count Dooku and Anakin lasted a long time, even with Anakin having support.

No. He'd never own Dooku, Sidious, Mace, or Yoda.

He would 'own' all of those in a few years time if he hadn't got his limbs cut off in a STUPID attempt to slash at Obi-Wan's perfectly trimmed beard. And I've already said that Anakin lacks experience.

And Anakin is exceedingly annoying, it seems its his divine ability to annoy the hell out of me and a concept called acting. But Mace does not feed off the Dark Side in the way Anakin does.

And the Dooku/Anakin fight went amazingly quickly, I mean in the cinema my phone fell out of my pocket, went to pick it up, came back up and Wohoa! Where did Count Dooku go? And the fight never even got going until Obi-Wan was out of the picture, when Anakin stared to get a little 'red-eyed' as it were.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
Exanda sidious can manehandle GG as well.
Best PT jedi in my opinion
yoda
mace
obi
anakin
Depa
luminara
Cin
vos
bulq
Kit

One of them is in my top ten the other would, yes, be in 11-15.
You can look retarted but if you get a good end result...
I am not dismissing them. I just belive that in this fight they will get lose badly. You are in fact overestimating the duo. yea they are warheros but against a power force user they are chump. You have lost, just like lots of people here, a lot of respect in my eyes.

Well Mate. No love lost from me. I havnt got a clue who you are anyway.

And GG needs to be shoved away somewhere with Maul and all the other junk in the 'Worse Villains Ever' box to be frank.

I believe you have placed Mace on a pedastel. He is a great Jedi etc. but he is extremely over rated (although much of it is deserved it must be said.) Whereas the Chosen One is dismissed and his mentor and quite possibly the Wisest Jedi in the whole saga is also dismissed.

Mace is extremely overrated. Of course most likely because he defeated Sidious.

News Flash: Just because he beat Sidious doesn't mean he can rape anyone! HELLO?

But it does mean he can beat alot of people and if you read shatterpoint he destroyed to gunships with a few gernades and his blade. he is very powerful and i don't even like him that much.

But he is far too overrated! Anakin was supposedly at his level and Kenobi defeated Anakin yet Mace would waste the two of them? I don't see Mace living through this.

Anakin is no where near his level!

Originally posted by Darth Avis
Anakin is no where near his level!

You're funny.


Anakin is Mace's level if not higher.

Remember who loped Mace's hand off? Suprise or not, Anakin still participated in Mace's death and he probably would have been able to contend with him.

Originally posted by Sorgo
You're funny.


Anakin is Mace's level if not higher.

Remember who loped Mace's hand off? Suprise or not, Anakin still participated in Mace's death and he probably would have been able to contend with him.

That is some of the worst reasoning I have ever seen. By that same token, who cut off Dooku's head? It doesn't matter if it was the Count possibly not giving it his all, so he probably would've been able to contend with Dooku. He is on the Count's level, if not higher.

Originally posted by Sorgo
You're funny.


Anakin is Mace's level if not higher.

Remember who loped Mace's hand off? Suprise or not, Anakin still participated in Mace's death and he probably would have been able to contend with him.

So if a youngling accidently chops off Yoda's head, is he just as strong as Yoda.

that youngling will grow up to be the greatest jedi ever...

One battle alone will not determine the superior force. Was America superior to Britain when they won the Battle of Bunker Hill? No. Britain still was the most powerful nation in the world, and won various other battles - though they lost the war.

what does that have to do with this?

Originally posted by Darth Avis
what does that have to do with this?

Point being that many are comparing singular battles as evidence of solid superiority. I am merely saying that that's not always true.

.....................
this thread is... well let's just say Mace WIN-du's! ha ha ha ha ha... ah.... (breaks off and stares at all potsers)

Originally posted by The Creator
Are you high?

I was at lunch today.

Originally posted by Escape81
Point being that many are comparing singular battles as evidence of solid superiority. I am merely saying that that's not always true.

Which is exactly why comparing Mace and Sidious with Obi-Wan versus Anakin is not fair.

But it is the only thing we have. We have to use it!

No it isnt. Both of those fights were different. If they were in the same place, with the same factors involved then we could.

Who was more powerful Maul or Obi- Wan?
Maul.
But one fatal accident costed him dearly.
So we can't judge it on one battle like Escape 81 says.

Is this the first time I've ever agreed with Sorgo?


Anyway, Avis, Mace can't be no where near his level, they are both level nine's, they have to be at least relatively close in power! Anakin managed to beat Dooku. He sliced off Mace's arm. He beat Cin, Whie and Bene at the same time. I'd give it to Mace, as GL says Mace and Yoda are the only one's strong enough to compete with Sidious, but it's close.

Both Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time would beat Mace. Both of them are near Mace's level as it stands; with both of them fighting together they would win.

weird, that Mace=dooku and Dooku pwned the duo right.

We can't judge like 1 beats 2, 2 beats 3, so therefore 3 is the worst.

Originally posted by Darth Avis
weird, that Mace=dooku and Dooku pwned the duo right.


Well Dooku lost didn't he?


And how do you know that Mace would defeate Dooku. Dooku is both the superior swordsman and force user, more experience and a user of the Dark Side. I would say he stands a very good chance and would most likley win.

yes but they are VERY close in power. My arguement in dooku vs mace is dooku wins but he is barly a better swordsman, not a better force user by that much, and the darkside gave him lightning. Big whoop. so still they are very close. And we all saw how much stronger dooku is than obi wan, who is equal to anakin.

Why do people keep bringing up 'zOMG!! anikin chopedd WINdu's arm of!11!!'? He trusted him. Mace wouldn't expect Anakin to pull something like that. by your logic, Darth Vader would wreck Palpatine because he throws him down a reactor shaft, Luke Skywalker would own the Death Star in one-on-one combat, and Han Solo would beat the crap out of a Sith Lord.

well DUH. Han can pwn Marka Ragnos so easy. you are so naive.

I don't get this, who really cares?

Originally posted by Darth Avis
yes but they are VERY close in power. My arguement in dooku vs mace is dooku wins but he is barly a better swordsman, not a better force user by that much, and the darkside gave him lightning. Big whoop. so still they are very close. And we all saw how much stronger dooku is than obi wan, who is equal to anakin.


Agreed.

almost anyway.

why ya laughing?

It was just that I agreed on most points but not all. Donno, just seemd to fit, I was not mocking you. Sorry for putting it the wrong way.

Originally posted by Escape81
That is some of the worst reasoning I have ever seen. By that same token, who cut off Dooku's head? It doesn't matter if it was the Count possibly not giving it his all, so he probably would've been able to contend with Dooku. He is on the Count's level, if not higher.

It's funny how you bring Dooku into this when he has nothing to do with this. Isn't that hilarious? Maybe I should switch my favorite character so you will stop posting irrelevant smack onto this thread.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Is this the first time I've ever agreed with Sorgo?


Anyway, Avis, Mace can't be no where near his level, they are both level nine's, they have to be at least relatively close in power! Anakin managed to beat Dooku. He sliced off Mace's arm. He beat Cin, Whie and Bene at the same time. I'd give it to Mace, as GL says Mace and Yoda are the only one's strong enough to compete with Sidious, but it's close.

Mace and Yoda are the only ones strong enough to compete with Sidious? Okay. It says the only people that are able to compete/defeat Mace are Dooku and Yoda. But do I go by that? No.

Dooku and Mace would stalemate. Bottom line. We honestly have no proof that Mace would defeat Dooku and Dooku would defeat Mace.

Who's it? Wikipedia? Whatever, my source overrule's yours as mine's George Lucas.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Who's it? Wikipedia? Whatever, my source overrule's yours as mine's George Lucas.

It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku.


^ Databank, so shut up.

Sorgo wins! Databank does indeed say that; if you want a confirmation, go check yourself.

Originally posted by overlord
zOMG!! Anakun pawnd Mace Windo in teh office!!!!11!11!11
Dark Envy gets electrocuted by Plo Koon afterwards.

Score!

Originally posted by Sorgo
It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku.


^ Databank, so shut up.
Yeah, Dooku bested Mace when Mace was younger. But Dooku couldn't ever compete with Sidious, Mace could.


Originally posted by Captain REX
Sorgo wins! Databank does indeed say that; if you want a confirmation, go check yourself.



Score!
You amuse me. Since when has the databank been more offficial than what GL says?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, Dooku bested Mace when Mace was younger. But Dooku couldn't ever compete with Sidious, Mace could.



You amuse me. Since when has the databank been more offficial than what GL says?

You are a *COLOSSAL* Moron.

You automatically assume that Dooku can't contend let alone defeat Sidious?

Got any proof?

Did Sidious ever fight with Dooku?

Does it say that Sidious could best Dooku?


The Databank COMES DIRECTLY FROM GEORGE'S SITE! It is completely valid information.

God, what the hell is wrong with you? Does Lucas have to say everything? HE HAS THE F*CKING DATABANK SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO SAY EVERYTHING, GODDAMNIT!

Originally posted by Sorgo
You are a *COLOSSAL* Moron.

You automatically assume that Dooku can't contend let alone defeat Sidious?

Got any proof?

Did Sidious ever fight with Dooku?

Does it say that Sidious could best Dooku?


The Databank COMES DIRECTLY FROM GEORGE'S SITE! It is completely valid information.

God, what the hell is wrong with you? Does Lucas have to say everything? HE HAS THE F*CKING DATABANK SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO SAY EVERYTHING, GODDAMNIT!

SORGO CALM DOWN! Relax before u explode ur lungs!

Originally posted by Sorgo
You are a *COLOSSAL* Moron.

You automatically assume that Dooku can't contend let alone defeat Sidious?

Got any proof?

Did Sidious ever fight with Dooku?

Does it say that Sidious could best Dooku?


The Databank COMES DIRECTLY FROM GEORGE'S SITE! It is completely valid information.

God, what the hell is wrong with you? Does Lucas have to say everything? HE HAS THE F*CKING DATABANK SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO SAY EVERYTHING, GODDAMNIT!

Hmmm...

Okay, then.

Taken from Yoda's Official Databank Profile:

Yoda and Dooku engaged in battle. First, their powers in the Force were put to test, as Dooku attempted to crush the tiny Jedi Master with hurled debris. Yoda easily deflected such assaults, and even repulsed Dooku's Force lightning attacks. The contest came down to a duel of lightsabers. In a climactic battle, the two master combatants displayed amazing speed and agility. Yoda, empowered by the Force, leaped through the air, twirling and battering at Dooku's defenses. Dooku only managed to escape by using the Force to once again jeopardize Anakin and Obi-Wan. Knowing that Yoda's nobility would buy him time, Dooku fled as the ancient Jedi Master saved his younger compatriots.

Also Taken from Yoda's Official Databank Profile:

Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa.

Not to bring this up... but assuming that the Databank is true, then it is a fact that Yoda was going to defeat Count Dooku... and that the Emperor was too powerful for Yoda to defeat... and that Yoda and the Emperor are: "the two most powerful practitioners of the Force's Light and Dark sides".

Hmmm... Interesting.

Thank you, but that's reall uncalled for.

Nope. But I'll take Goerge Lucas's word for it.

Yup, and I've posted it.

Not that I know of.

Yup.

The databanks are written by Pablo Hidalgo, Bonnie Burton and Paul Ens. Not George Lucas.

If you ever ask me, I'd say Dooku's lightsaber skills are superior to that of Sidious's. Dooku has completely mastered the lightsaber style designed specifically to fight other lightsaber wielders. So in the setting where Mace fought Sidious, where using force powers isn't very convenient, I say Dooku could take Sidious.

So how do you explain George Lucas's statement?

The statement could mean overall

Originally posted by darthsith19
So how do you explain George Lucas's statement?

Dooku COULD defeat Sidious. In other words, Dooku isn't guarenteed a victory, it doesn't make him more powerful, but he could pull it off.

Lucas's quote is ambigious. I myself have used it in an argument, many a time. At the same time, perhaps it is because he never considered Dooku fighting Sidious. Then again, given the level of absent continuity, it is also possible that Dooku could not compete with Sidious, either.

If Dooku could contend with Sidious, do you think he would have tried to kill him?

That is possible. I personally believe that Sidious is more powerful than Dooku, but I do not think it would be an ownage fight on Sidious's part, either. Sidious has been labeled as the most powerful practitioner of the Dark Side during modern times, so if Dooku were more powerful, it would be he who holds that title. I believe that, in the Force, Dooku lacks Sidious's strength or mastery. But this is my opinion.

I agree with you, I think Sidious is more powerful, I think if Dooku was more powerful than Sidious, he would've taken advantage of that, and killed Sidious.

True, Sidious's powers are superior to that of Dooku, but not by a lot though. But in lightsaber skills, gonna have to go with the count, again, by a inch or two.

Originally posted by Escape81
Not to bring this up... but assuming that the Databank is true, then it is a fact that Yoda was going to defeat Count Dooku... and that the Emperor was too powerful for Yoda to defeat... and that Yoda and the Emperor are: "the two most powerful practitioners of the Force's Light and Dark sides".

Hmmm... Interesting.

I didn't even have to read your last post and I don't know how many times I have to tell you this before it ACTUALLY gets through your head.


Kenobi VS Dooku: Dooku could rip apart Kenobi, Correct?
Dooku VS Anakin: Anakin killed Dooku.
Kenobi VS Anakin: Anakin got schooled.

^ By your logic, because Dooku could not defeat Yoda and Yoda stalemated with Sidious that Sidious would crush Dooku, yet the example I just showed you proved the criss-cross Analogy bullshit completely wrong.

Hmm... Now THAT'S Weird, Escape.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Thank you, but that's reall uncalled for.

Nope. But I'll take Goerge Lucas's word for it.

Yup, and I've posted it.

Not that I know of.

Yup.

The databanks are written by Pablo Hidalgo, Bonnie Burton and Paul Ens. Not George Lucas.

It says Sidious could best Dooku? Show me.

George Lucas doesn't have to write it for it to be a fact.

He probably got these people to write it. Just like he got Gillard to teach the Actors how to Duel. WAIT! Lucas didn't do it, so that means they all can't fight and the Lightsaber Forms are fake because George didn't say it... Right?

Originally posted by Sorgo
I didn't even have to read your last post and I don't know how many times I have to tell you this before it ACTUALLY gets through your head.


Kenobi VS Dooku: Dooku could rip apart Kenobi, Correct?
Dooku VS Anakin: Anakin killed Dooku.
Kenobi VS Anakin: Anakin got schooled.

^ By your logic, because Dooku could not defeat Yoda and Yoda stalemated with Sidious that Sidious would crush Dooku, yet the example I just showed you proved the criss-cross Analogy bullshit completely wrong.

Hmm... Now THAT'S Weird, Escape.

Never said that would happen. Never said Dooku would be crushed. But what I did say is that it isn't likely that he could beat Sidious.

Originally posted by Escape81
Never said that would happen. Never said Dooku would be crushed. But what I did say is that it isn't likely that he could beat Sidious.

Right...

You don't direct proof except for Sidious' accomplishments against other people and the Criss-Cross Analogy crap that I have clearly proved to be false.

I leave it at this: We most likely will never know because they never fought.

Because Dooku knew he couldn't beat him. If he could have, he would have.

Damn this is a good thread!

*pets Dark Envy*

"You have been good my child."

I believe that overall, anakin AND obi wan is simply too much for mace. mace is an excellent fighter, and even killed jango fett (which many overlook) but hes not enough for two of the best and most compatible jedi ever. obi wan had defensive skills, and anakin dips in to the darkside and generates offensive skills. they would either win by skill, or win by mace tiring himself.

Originally posted by mace=badass
Because Dooku knew he couldn't beat him. If he could have, he would have. Wrong. He didn't want to elminate Dooku. I could imagine he had seconds thoughts, but the two were extremely powerful together and Dooku was somewhat not the "Darkest" Sith around. He wanted to turn Anakin to the Dark side and break the rule of three. Just because he didn't go up to Sidious and kill him doesn't mean he couldn't.

didnt nic gillard say anakin was a level 9 duelist? thats about as high as it goes, he should be at least roughly equal to mace, obi wan was level 8 and won though experience and anakins arrogance, plus his defencive abilities are unmatched. i think the two of them can put mace down fairly hard. it would probably start out seeminly even matched but after a while it would become evident that mace just doesnt have enough.

although that being said if anakin made a mistake mace would cut him up worse than obi wan did. mace has a chance, but only if he can capitalise on something one of them did wrong.

Just to be clear here...

The databank is not canon, nor is it the words of George Lucas.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Wrong. He didn't want to elminate Dooku. I could imagine he had seconds thoughts, but the two were extremely powerful together and Dooku was somewhat not the "Darkest" Sith around. He wanted to turn Anakin to the Dark side and break the rule of three. Just because he didn't go up to Sidious and kill him doesn't mean he couldn't.

But considering how Sidious was bound, shackled, and in a completely powerless position means this:

a) Dooku did not intend to overthrow Sidious at all.
or
b) Dooku feared Sidious, and decided to wait a while longer.
or
c) Dooku wanted or needed Anakin to help him, first.
or
d) Dooku was simply doing as he was told.

Originally posted by Escape81
But considering how Sidious was bound, shackled, and in a completely powerless position means this:

a) Dooku did not intend to overthrow Sidious at all.
or
b) Dooku feared Sidious, and decided to wait a while longer.
or
c) Dooku wanted or needed Anakin to help him, first.
or
d) Dooku was simply doing as he was told.

^All not facts.

Why would he? He simply has no reason. No one is going to fear a shackled man. He knew the relationship Palpatine and Anakin had and wanted Anakin to join the three of them to be an unstoppable Uber-Sith Trio. If he would have killed Palpatine, Anakin would have been 100% Unturnable.


And like I said before, Dooku isn't a Coward like some Sith. He seeks a fair fight.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just to be clear here...

The databank is not canon, nor is it the words of George Lucas.

Proof, Ushgarak?

Anakin and Obiwan as they were in ROTS would beat mace because a) Anakin is pretty damn powerful and would hold his own against mace, unless he made a mistake. and if he pulled his Dark Rage tech he might be able to beat mace single-handed like he did with dooku. b)Obi-Wan is a very good at defending thanx to his form so he could "survive" for some time. The Obi+Ani is the best team known in the movies. Theres no reason why they cant beat mace. Mace is not a god, nor is he marka ragnos, he will lose, its reasonable to think so.

a) Anakin is pretty damn powerful and would hold his own against mace, unless he made a mistake. and if he pulled his Dark Rage tech he might be able to beat mace single-handed like he did with dooku.

1. Darth Rage is not a real character.

2. I believe Dooku threw the fight against Anakin

3. Anakin is extremely hot-headed, and he thinks far too highly of himself. Chances are that he will be the first one to make a mistake against Mace.

The Obi+Ani is the best team known in the movies. Theres no reason why they cant beat mace. Mace is not a god, nor is he marka ragnos, he will lose, its reasonable to think so.

You don't have to be near Marka Ragnos in order to defeat Obi-Wan and Anakin. They aren't a godly team either. Dooku pretty much pwned them in under a minute.

Yes but Dooku is a sith that will use force choke and offensive force powers to win unlike Jedi that basically know force push as an offensive move. Not to mention Obi-Wan could hold his own against Mace

I think he meant Force Rage. It's a Force poer not a character.

Actually, in the ROTS AC, GL says Anakin proved himself stronger than Dooku.

Really? I remember something different. What was it again? Oh yeah, Dooku without hands or a head!

True, but Mace has proved himself a fairly ruthless Jedi. He beheaded Jango and used force crush against grievous (if this isn't cannon, I'll concede it). Not to mention that he created and practices the most dangerous form of lightsaber duelling. If Obi-Wan and Anakin really use their cohesive teamwork, something that they didn't quite show against Dooku, then they will win. If not, Mace has a crack at it. Either way, it'd be a really rough battle.

Actually, in the ROTS AC, GL says Anakin proved himself stronger than Dooku.

wtf? Glentract told me Dooku threw the fight...

I believe Dooku did throw the fight for these facts.

1.) If the Republic won the war Dooku would have been dead
2.) If Dooku lost to Anakin but wasn't killed Dooku would have been taking to courts
3.) Grievous would continue the war leading the CIS
4.) Dooku would blame everything on Grievous
5.) Palp takes control of the galaxy
6.) Sidious and Dooku rules the galaxy

Not to mention that Grievous said Dooku expected Obi and Ani to dock on the flagship.

I believe Dooku threw the fight. If Anakin can beat Dooku that means Anakin can beat Obi-Wan. Dooku Pwned Obi then got pwned by Ani. Makes no sense does it?

No Dooku used the force on Obi and actually battled Ani with his lightsaber.

Dooku's cut dialogue from the script implies that he threw the fight, but Anakin fanboys will say otherwise.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
No Dooku used the force on Obi and actually battled Ani with his lightsaber.

So why didn't he used the force on Ani?

Dooku isolated Skywalker as well and was increasingly trying to get him to tap into his Dark Energies. Plus, as Ianus mentioned, the cut dialogue implies he threw the damned fight.

ok there is no canon proof that he threw any fight its pure speculation, on the other hands George Lucas himself stated that Anakin was stronger this time around, this is like a mirror of episode 6 when luke overpowered vader. Both by using force rage. Anakin had more raw power. Obi-wan was weaker in raw power, much much weaker, he won by a cheap tactic when anakin made a mistake. Obi did not overpower Ani, he won by mere luck. If they were fighting on tattoine, obi would be dead. Force Rage temporarily double your power and speed, plus Anakin stated he was twice as strong as he was in AOTC that was before he used Force Rage, he was 4 times as powerful as he was in AOTC when he killed dooku. so its very reasonable to think that anakin with enhanced power and speed was definintely stronger than dooku.

p.s dooku simply underestimated anakin's strength, he wanted a challenge so he asked anakin to use the dark side. But he had no idea of how powerful ani would become. It frightened him, Dooku looked terrifed when ani had him in that head saber lock. this is similar to when Perfect Cell was getting Gohan to go super saiyan 2, but was terrified at how powerful gohan actually became.

ok there is no canon proof that he threw any fight its pure speculation, on the other hands George Lucas himself stated that Anakin was stronger this time around, this is like a mirror of episode 6 when luke overpowered vader.

Actually, if you watch the duel properly, it kinda shows that Dooku threw the fight. He used all of his offensive force powers against Obi-Wan, leaving Anakin unscathed. Care to explain how that shows Dooku gave his all? Everytime they locked sabers, Dooku gave ground to Anakin and encouraged him to use his anger, rather than attack him. Care to explain how that shows Dooku trying?

Both by using force rage. Anakin had more raw power. Obi-wan was weaker in raw power, much much weaker.

Yet Obi-Wan still managed to defeat Anakin. It clearly shows that having a shitload of raw power doesn't equal to automatic godlike whoop-ass abilities.

he won by a cheap tactic when anakin made a mistake. Obi did not overpower Ani, he won by mere luck. If they were fighting on tattoine, obi would be dead.

How the bloody hell is outsmarting your opponent a cheap tactic? Obi-Wan matched Anakin blade for blade. It was a dead even fight until Anakin made that stupid mistake. Obi-Wan was level-headed and resourceful enough to provoke that kind of mistake from Anakin. He also used his terrain to his advantage. Those are all qualities of being a good fighter. Obi-Wan had experience, intelligence, and level-headedness over Anakin. All Anakin had over Obi-Wan was raw-power. But guess who still won the fight? As I said earlier, just having raw power is far from being enough to win a fight.

Force Rage temporarily double your power and speed, plus Anakin stated he was twice as strong as he was in AOTC that was before he used Force Rage, he was 4 times as powerful as he was in AOTC when he killed dooku. so its very reasonable to think that anakin with enhanced power and speed was definintely stronger than dooku.

Woohoo...that's what you call unsupported assumptions. Anakin even stated that Obi-Wan was 'as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Windu', are you gonna take Anakin's word and assume Obi-Wan is on par with Mace or Yoda? LMAO! Anakin was merely saying that for an unsuccessful attempt to threated Dooku. Notice how Dooku just taunted him after that? It clearly didn't impress Dooku at all. And besides, Anakin couldn't even use the force to help himself against Obi-Wan, yet look at Dooku, he just chucked Obi-Wan away like a rag doll. Clearly shows that Anakin is a lot inferior to Dooku in mastery of force powers. I'm not denying that Anakin has more raw power than Dooku, but Dooku has much more control over his power than Anakin did. I choose having control over a slightly less amount of power over not having any control over a shitload of raw, unusable power.

p.s dooku simply underestimated anakin's strength, he wanted a challenge so he asked anakin to use the dark side. But he had no idea of how powerful ani would become. It frightened him, Dooku looked terrifed when ani had him in that head saber lock.

Exactly! Dooku was trying to provoke Anakin to tap into the dark side! That shows that he wasn't trying to kill, harm, or win the fight against Anakin! Dooku was only frightened AFTER Sidious forced Anakin to kill him! Notice how he looked at Sidious like "Hey, WTF man?" when Sidious wanted Anakin to kill him. That wasn't part of the original plan. Also, there is a conversation happening before the duel between Dooku and Sidious, where Sidious gave Dooku STRICT ORDERS to kill Obi-Wan, and turn Anakin to the dark side! In other words, Dooku wasn't allowed to win the fight! Dooku's cut dialogue of "But you promised me amnesity!" implies so!

Can you please tell me where you heard these words of dooku and sidious?

I believe it was the ROTS script and in the book Labyrinth of Evil, the prologue for ROTS.

where can i look up the script for rots?

My mistake, it wasn't in the ROTS script. It was in Labyrinth of Evil. Check that book out.

Originally posted by OBI-Ninja
Actually, in the ROTS AC, GL says Anakin proved himself stronger than Dooku.

wtf? Glentract told me Dooku threw the fight...
Alot of people used to say that. Now even Sorgo says Mace and Dooku are about even and Anakin'd put up a good fight against Mace.


From the AC: In this particular case Palpatine's testing Anakin to see if he's strong enough to become his apprentice and he and he doesn't actually tell Dooku what he's up to so Dooku thinks he's just going to fight him but the whole thing was a set up by the Emperor to test Anakin's strength and when Anakin's strong enough, which he proves to be by killing Dooku, then the Emperor's ready to convert him over to the Dark Side to become his new apprentice.

still look at the rots game for ps2, anakin pwns mace!

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
still look at the rots game for ps2, anakin pwns mace!
OMG... yer kidding, right?

WTF?!?! GAMES IS JUST A GAME, ROTS GAME IS NOT CANON.

That IS true, the Harry Potter movies had weak acting.

Originally posted by Tangible God
That IS true, the Harry Potter movies had weak acting.

What does Harry Potter have to do with Star Wars? And Harry Potter rocks btw.

Originally posted by Dark Envy
What does Harry Potter have to do with Star Wars? And Harry Potter rocks btw. Not Daniel Radcliffe's acting skills, they suck worse than Hayden's.

And I dunno, thought I should break the tension.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Not Daniel Radcliffe's acting skills, they suck worse than Hayden's.

And I dunno, thought I should break the tension.

Thing is, I don't really care bout acting. And my thread past 6 pages!

yes it did congrats, and yes i was kidding about the game thing, i though a joke would lighten the mood

Originally posted by darthsith19
Alot of people used to say that. Now even Sorgo says Mace and Dooku are about even and Anakin'd put up a good fight against Mace.


From the AC: In this particular case Palpatine's testing Anakin to see if he's strong enough to become his apprentice and he and he doesn't actually tell Dooku what he's up to so Dooku thinks he's just going to fight him but the whole thing was a set up by the Emperor to test Anakin's strength and when Anakin's strong enough, which he proves to be by killing Dooku, then the Emperor's ready to convert him over to the Dark Side to become his new apprentice.

You think Dooku doesn't already know that Palpatine wants to convert Anakin?

"His master would have his work cut out for him if he planned to turn Skywalker."

A thought of the Count in Labyrinth of Evil. For the umpteenth time, read the book. It would make most of the arguments we have completely unnecessary.

very strong argument there

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
You think Dooku doesn't already know that Palpatine wants to convert Anakin?

"His master would have his work cut out for him if he planned to turn Skywalker."

A thought of the Count in Labyrinth of Evil. For the umpteenth time, read the book. It would make most of the arguments we have completely unnecessary.

Faunus, avatar of the God of Memory and disciple of the holy book, Labyrinth of Evil (Not to be confused with the mega-popular manga series "Labyrinth of Elvis".) dost trample on the demons of laziness and ignorance with his righteous words!

Lol!

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
You think Dooku doesn't already know that Palpatine wants to convert Anakin?

"His master would have his work cut out for him if he planned to turn Skywalker."

A thought of the Count in Labyrinth of Evil. For the umpteenth time, read the book. It would make most of the arguments we have completely unnecessary.
Hmm. We'll, your have to forgive me if I find GL's word more official than a E.U. book.

Ok lets stick to the topic, my oppinion is that obi-wan and anakin would win, each would hold their own against mace, obi-wan would die. Ani who cares about obi like a brother and a father would go completely ballistic and bash mace's head in with his rage tech. Sorry but its pretty likely. Very Angry Jedi tend to get a boost while fighting, this is not oppinion, it is shown in the movie at least 4 times - obi-wan vs darth maul, anakin vs tusken raiders, anakin vs dooku(rots), luke vs Vader(rotj). watch those fights carefuly. Losing obi-wan would def. make skywalker pretty pissed off. The reason why i think obi goes down first is generally when obi fights together obi always goes down. case and point: obi+quigon vs maul(obiwan got seperated from quigon with a kick from maul), obi + ani vs dooku (aotc -obi ), obi+ani vs dooku (rots). so in the end it would be Anakin vs Mace and anakin would win, especially if george lucas was directing lol he would never let his boy ani die. hehe

Wtf, Anakin Vs Mace= Mace.

The best fighter doesn't always win. Just look at Dooku and Anakin. Anakin is dwarfed in skill by Dooku, yet he won because of circumstances and his burst of rage. Vader lost against a half-trained boy, himself.

Exactly so its possible that anakin could beat mace with a burst of rage like with dooku

Mace has this because he has better saber skills than the both of them, and equal if not better force powers. It would be a very hard fight, but Mace would definitily come out on top. Yoda sent Obi to fight anakin because he didn't think Obi could beat Sidious. Obi beat Anakin, so Obi is better. However Mace beat Sidious so that means Mace is better than the both of them because Obi couldn't beat Sidious.

Weee My thread got resurrected!!! I FEEL SO HONORED....AND FULFILLED!