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hey look! a new low!

http://www.10news.com/news/5504608/detail.html

Family Upset Over Marine's Body Arriving As Freight

Marine Bodies Sent To Families On Commercial Airliners

SAN DIEGO -- There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard.

But in reality, many are arriving as freight on commercial airliners -- stuffed in the belly of a plane with suitcases and other cargo.

John Holley and his wife, Stacey, were stunned when they found out the body of their only child, Matthew, who died in Iraq last month, would be arriving at Lindbergh Field as freight.

"When someone dies in combat, they need to give them due respect they deserve for (the) sacrifice they made," said John Holley.

John and Stacey Holley, who were both in the Army, made some calls, and with the help of U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer, Matthew was greeted with honor and respect.

"Our familiarity with military protocol and things of that sort allowed us to kind of put our foot down -- we're not sure other parents have that same knowledge," said Stacey Holley.

The Holleys now want to make sure every fallen hero gets the proper welcome.

The bodies of dead service members arrive at Dover Air Force Base.

From that point, they are sent to their families on commercial airliners.

Reporters from 10News called the Defense Department for an explanation. A representative said she did not know why this is happening.

I agree...we should ship them back in the first class cab. Some champagin perhaps?

and a foot rub. but i think the bodies should be treated with more respect than cargo. they did, after all, die for their country, even if the war they're in is a crock of shit

regardless of opinions on the war, there is a little something called "military protocol" which states how bodies are to be handled and transported. that protocol is not to be broken for the sake of cheaper travel ala commercial baggage. apparently, some "patriots" dont give a shit, but guess what? their families give a shit and thus the article.

It is extremely hypocritical of the current republican mindset that these soldiers are treated as excess baggage. I mean, have you ever seen the mummy of an Egyptian Pharaoh land in the states? They're greeted with an honour guard and all the pomp and peagantry of an arriving foreign dignitary....

And we should treat our own just as well. After all, they died for "freedom", didn't they?

There is no valid complaint here. The deceased was being transported in a commercial airliner cargo hold, as apparently such things have been done for years. What the article probably neglected to say, purposefully or not, is that there was most likely a military individual escort on board with the body, possessing the deceased's personal belongings and the American flag, to oversee the Marine's transport to the funeral home. Honor Guard units used to greet the incoming body are at family request only and often times not available (due to personnel shortages).

Military protocol was not breached. What is the family complaining about?

Originally posted by Wanderer259
There is no valid complaint here. The deceased was being transported in a commercial airliner cargo hold, as apparently such things have been done for years. What the article probably neglected to say, purposefully or not, is that there was most likely a military individual escort on board with the body, possessing the deceased's personal belongings and the American flag, to oversee the Marine's transport to the funeral home. Honor Guard units used to greet the incoming body are at family request only and often times not available (due to personnel shortages).

Military protocol was not breached. What is the family complaining about?

Hopefully by saying that the administration should publically stop treating the dead like they're egyptian pharaohs, and then turn around and ship them home like they're a deli delivery.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Hopefully by saying that the administration should publically stop treating the dead like they're egyptian pharaohs, and then turn around and ship them home like they're a deli delivery.

The fact that they are placed within a cargo bay does not mean they are being disrespected.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
The fact that they are placed within a cargo bay does not mean they are being disrespected. How else are they going to be taken back to America? They'll end up in a Cargo Hold anyway.

My grandfather was a WW2 veteran and he said they used to do the same thing sometimes, but at least they were delivered honorably in almost every case. He felt the same way most of you do and I agree that there should be a bit more honorable circumstances that someone's dear departed loved ones arrive home in.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
possessing the deceased's personal belongings and the American flag

click the link and view the picture, and see you are clearly wrong

also, try reading the article, as it helps slightly in understanding the situation:
"Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard" which they clearly were not. they were treated like so many bags and suitcases.

kthx

I worked at the airlines and all bodies are in the cargo as freight.

Originally posted by PVS
click the link and view the picture, and see you are clearly wrong

also, try reading the article, as it helps slightly in understanding the situation:
"Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard" which they clearly were not. they were treated like so many bags and suitcases.

kthx

I see a small picture centered on a casket being taken off of a plane on an unloading ramp. That's how anything gets off of a plane, barring a human being with working legs on a stairwell. Your point?

The flag is placed on the casket once it has been removed from its shipping container and taken from the plane. From there, it is overseen by its military escort to be placed in the hearse and then taken to the funeral home by police escort. Color guard, again, is by family request and often not available due to personnel shortages.

Again, what is the complaint? The family had no chance to see that their son's body would not be handled properly, as apparently they complained before the plane even landed.

Media=Poop sensationalism extreme

Originally posted by Wanderer259
I see a small picture centered on a casket being taken off of a plane on an unloading ramp. That's how anything gets off of a plane, barring a human being with working legs on a stairwell. Your point?

The flag is placed on the casket once it has been removed from its shipping container and taken from the plane. From there, it is overseen by its military escort to be placed in the hearse and then taken to the funeral home by police escort. Color guard, again, is by family request and often not available due to personnel shortages.

Again, what is the complaint? The family had no chance to see that their son's body would not be handled properly, as apparently they complained before the plane even landed.

the flag is to be draped on the coffin at all times, met by the color guard when the plane lands lands. thats the rules. the liberal media didnt write them, rather the military did.

i dont see how complicated this is to understand...really i frikin dont

Originally posted by PVS
the flag is to be draped on the coffin at all times, met by the color guard when the plane lands lands. thats the rules. the liberal media didnt write them, rather the military did.

i dont see how complicated this is to understand...really i frikin dont Out of curiosity, where did you learn how it is supposed to happen (Same question to wanderer).

I don't see what's so difficult for you to understand that the flag cannot be draped over the coffin when it is in a cargo bay being transported. It is within a shipping container to keep it from being damaged. Try putting a flag on it when it's in such a state. I'll say it again, the flag is placed on the coffin once it is removed from its shipping container and a color guard is at family request ahead of time only.



I asked military personnel.

ADDENDUM: ARMED FORCES IRAQ CASUALTY FUNERAL PROTOCOLS

** Effective 03.17.03 - George W. Bush, Commander in Chief - As Dictated by Karl Rove **

The Defense Department instituted a policy in 1991 not to allow photographs the during transportation of fallen soldiers out of respect for their famililes.

How many times has this policy been ignored?

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Out of curiosity, where did you learn how it is supposed to happen (Same question to wanderer).

i thought it was common knowlege. i guess ill search for an official document on it, but may take a while. unless anyone else can find it.

and to whats you face, protocol regarding photos were broken and we were given the opportunity to see how the bodies are properly transported, with flags draped. its quite possible, you know, when they are not stacked and stuffed in a cargo hold like baggage.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
Except that this soldier was denied nothing.
That was a joke he posted.

I'm not sure what the problem is, exactly. I've read through everyone's posts and can't see what the big deal is. Maybe we should stop giving Egyptian pharaohs such extravagant treatment?

Sorry.

This was the best I could find myself: http://www.nfda.org/page.php?pID=153



This is by the National Funeral Directors Asssociation and it says nothing about the flag being required to be draped or wrapped about the casket at all times, only that one will accompany it.



Incorrect. That is how they are received by the Dover Air Base during ceremony, not how they are transported to their final destination of a funeral home selected by themselves or their families. The flag is removed to place the casket in the shipping container (for the casket's own protection), given to the military escort for safe-keeping, and then replaced once the casket has been removed from its protective container.

Are you suggesting that the C-5/C-130/C-whatever that is used to bring the caskets as a group to Dover should also fly each casket to its individual resting place? If the cost can be handled, then okay, I don't see why not either.

What is the problem? No soldier, Marine, sailor, or airmen I have brought this up to has any problem with it at all.

Let me just say that a coffin/casket with a flag on it and a ceremonial greeting generates attention. The way people respond to it is "Oh Its a soldier ; Proabably died in Iraq or Afghanistan from the battle" and reminding the Public that there are deaths.

The less attention these caskets get, the less talk there is about death form the US side and the less controvertial the whole issue is.

The irony is that they are travelling in commercial planes and are getting the opposite effect.

I don't know. This is the only news story I've seen on it. I'd say the federal mandate on disallowing public photos of the ceremonies both at Dover and elsewhere get more attention than anything else.