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This is something I've always thought. Do my friends and stuff exist when I'm not in contact with them? How can they exist if I'm not with them? CHI-CHI-CHI CHA-CHA-CHA.....

yes...

Originally posted by Darth Zannah
This is something I've always thought. Do my friends and stuff exist when I'm not in contact with them? How can they exist if I'm not with them? CHI-CHI-CHI CHA-CHA-CHA..... They exist within their own selves, they don't need you to exist...

Well SOMEBODY is typing this mess...

Solipsism.

I donīt like solipsism very much, as it is hard to explain why some things are not predictable... you know... if everything is in our mind we should be able to predict everything, but we are not.

If a tree falls, but no one is around to see it, does it make a sound?...

yes...

OH no.......not that again..........Yes yes, it makes a sound....

Originally posted by Atlantis001
I donīt like solipsism very much, as it is hard to explain why some things are not predictable... you know... if everything is in our mind we should be able to predict everything, but we are not.

Possibly. It's also about the idea that we can't definitely know anything outside of our own mind, which I suppose is a fact, if slightly self-proving.

Originally posted by debbiejo
OH no.......not that again..........Yes yes, it makes a sound....

Perhaps 'sound' is defined by the listener though.

There's already a thread about the tree..........It was confirmed that in it's vibrational sense that it exists even if picked up in another vibrational field that we cannot feel ourselves... ....It still exists..It fell, and was picked up by something that felt it somewhere...

Originally posted by debbiejo
There's already a thread about the tree..........It was confirmed that in it's vibrational sense that it exists even if picked up in another vibrational field that we cannot feel ourselves... ....It still exists..It fell, and was picked up by something that felt it somewhere...

Yeah, which isn't sound as we know it. You can argue both ways. Anyway, I shall stop diverting the thread, as this is off-topic.

Debbie- don't reply to this with another 'debbie' post. Good girl.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom

Debbie- don't reply to this with another 'debbie' post. Good girl.

I can if I want...I'm bored......and vibrations are also sound..........You don't reply.....end of conversation about it.

I think no one is real and god made all you guys up just to test me. He does the same to other people. in a different realm.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I can if I want....and vibrations are also sound..........You don't reply.....end of conversation about it.

Aww.

We hear vibrations in the manner we call sound. Arguably sound must be heard.

Originally posted by The Crab
I think no one is real and god made all you guys up just to test me. He does the same to other people. in a different realm.


It's true!!!! You win, we're really not here....

Originally posted by Darth Zannah
This is something I've always thought. Do my friends and stuff exist when I'm not in contact with them? How can they exist if I'm not with them? CHI-CHI-CHI CHA-CHA-CHA.....
Iv always wondered this as well, its a massive philosophical debate first proposed by Berkeley, an Irish Bishop. He believed that no object can exist unless it is being perceived, or as he put it "esse est percipi" meaning - to be is to be perceived. This is known as idealism and although it seems to be feasible (or at least i think so) there are several critical difficulties which make it, according to most other philosophers, logically impossible. If nothing can exist without being perceived then it seems that things constantly flash in and out of being, but where do they go? Berkeleys argument against this was that God perceives everything all the time and therefore objects retain a continuos existence.
So to believe in idealism you are claiming also to believe in God, and if you don't believe in God then neither can you believe the idealist theories.
Berkeley was often ridiculed for his beliefs - after talking to a friend, he was leaving when they said to him "Pray, Sir, don't leave us; for we may perhaps forget to think of you, and then you will cease to exist" Indeed, this highlights flaws in Berkeleys theory.

However, from my personal point of view, i don't see how it can be proven that things exist unperceived so why does it make sense to believe that, obviously animate objects/beings can perceive themselves and therefore prove their existence but it's impossible to know whether the cup on the table next to me exists when i close my eyes and don't perceive it in any way...no-one can ever know this, we can only assume.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Aww.

We hear vibrations in the manner we call sound. Arguably sound must be heard.

Aww look you couldn't stand it, you had to reply......LOL

Sound doesn't have to be heard by us though....There are many other organisms that hear it....feel it, but then we could go into a more quantum view of other dimensions and such, but then that would be off topic again.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Aww look you couldn't stand it, you had to reply......LOL

Sound doesn't have to be heard by us though....

By something that perceives vibrations as 'sound'.

Originally posted by Biscuit
However, from my personal point of view, i don't see how it can be proven that things exist unperceived so why does it make sense to believe that, obviously animate objects/beings can perceive themselves and therefore prove their existence but it's impossible to know whether the cup on the table next to me exists when i close my eyes and don't perceive it in any way...no-one can ever know this, we can only assume.

You could touch the cup. If you don't, it is more logical to assume that it is still there, than to imagine you are creating it by perception. This is a trick that works on babies.

Originally posted by debbiejo
It's true!!!! You win, we're really not here....

no you are really here but you are just one of gods angels giving me a test throughout life

Actually, I think Debbie is here to test me.

Debbie is my personal angel!!

It's very simple: have someone play "peek-a-boo" with you. If you are surprised everytime that person pops out from hiding and says "peek-a-boo," than for you, no, your friends and family do not exist when they are not around you.

If you are not surprised, then congrats, my friend. You have acquired "object permanence," a milestone in cognitive development, not just for people but for many animal species as well.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
You could touch the cup. If you don't, it is more logical to assume that it is still there, than to imagine you are creating it by perception. This is a trick that works on babies.
touching it is perceiving it. I agree its more logical to assume that its still there, but it cant be proven

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom

You could touch the cup. If you don't, it is more logical to assume that it is still there, than to imagine you are creating it by perception. This is a trick that works on babies. According to quantum physics you don't really actually touch anything.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Actually, I think Debbie is here to test me.

True, I am on a mission from god.......Just like the Blues Brothers.

Originally posted by The Crab
Debbie is my personal angel!!

I am?.........Look I said "I AM".....

Originally posted by debbiejo
According to quamtum physics you don't really actually touch anyhing.



True, I am on a mission from god.......



I am?.........Look I said "I AM".....

Originally posted by Biscuit
touching it is perceiving it.

It sure is.

Originally posted by Biscuit
I agree its more logical to assume that its still there, but it cant be proven

Sure, but to ascribe to that viewpoint is to assert that nothing outside of your mind can be proven.

Originally posted by Mindship
It's very simple: have someone play "peek-a-boo" with you. If you are surprised everytime that person pops out from hiding and says "peek-a-boo," than for you, no, your friends and family do not exist when they are not around you.

If you are not surprised, then congrats, my friend. You have acquired "object permanence," a milestone in cognitive development, not just for people but for many animal species as well.

All this would prove is that we have a memory.....but memory is still only in the mind, a part of consciousness, if something exists in your memory then it is being perceived by ur consciousness, so it exists ...

Originally posted by debbiejo
According to quantum physics you don't really actually touch anything.



Please do elaborate.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Please do elaborate. Without going to a bunch of writing it comes down to particle wave theories...

Here's a quick one that might explain, but particle waves are what photons can change into only blending into each other, not actually touching the other object at all...There is much written on it, and could post later, just here is a quick link...All things are blended, connected at this sub atomic level

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-Quantum-Theory-Mechanics.htm

http://www.physlib.com/quantum_mechanics.html

There are many books out there on the market such as the Universe and Multiple Reality, and The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot....I can't explain it as well as others do....But when you get into the subatomic levels, things do not appear as we see or sense them.

A gold star is in order.

Oh, I'll cherish it forever!!

Originally posted by Biscuit
Iv always wondered this as well, its a massive philosophical debate first proposed by Berkeley, an Irish Bishop. He believed that no object can exist unless it is being perceived, or as he put it "esse est percipi" meaning - to be is to be perceived. This is known as idealism and although it seems to be feasible (or at least i think so) there are several critical difficulties which make it, according to most other philosophers, logically impossible. If nothing can exist without being perceived then it seems that things constantly flash in and out of being, but where do they go? Berkeleys argument against this was that God perceives everything all the time and therefore objects retain a continuos existence.
So to believe in idealism you are claiming also to believe in God, and if you don't believe in God then neither can you believe the idealist theories.
Berkeley was often ridiculed for his beliefs - after talking to a friend, he was leaving when they said to him "Pray, Sir, don't leave us; for we may perhaps forget to think of you, and then you will cease to exist" Indeed, this highlights flaws in Berkeleys theory.

However, from my personal point of view, i don't see how it can be proven that things exist unperceived so why does it make sense to believe that, obviously animate objects/beings can perceive themselves and therefore prove their existence but it's impossible to know whether the cup on the table next to me exists when i close my eyes and don't perceive it in any way...no-one can ever know this, we can only assume.

Point proven

I believe people still exist even if I'm not around them.

Basically there is one explanation for this. The world is not centered around you so the world can exisit without you which means people can exsist without you.

Originally posted by Draco69
Well SOMEBODY is typing this mess...

that was funny to me...

Wtf is this? Do people just vanish as soon as they leave ur sight? No, ofcourse they still exist, just because you've never seen 1 million pounds doesn't mean it doesn't exist ffs. Really, this isn't philosophy just complete and utter bs.

If they don't, then who is doing all the posting?

Originally posted by Magee
Wtf is this? Do people just vanish as soon as they leave ur sight? They don't??

Originally posted by Biscuit
All this would prove is that we have a memory.....but memory is still only in the mind, a part of consciousness, if something exists in your memory then it is being perceived by ur consciousness, so it exists ...

Exactly. Mind/memory permits a reliable "reality continuity," a mental awareness of things which supplements and transcends sensory awareness. This is why an older child is no longer amused at peek-a-boo. She knows the object exists even when she can no longer see it.

Ever since the Matrix Trilogy and The Trueman show I've had my doubts but you know logically it dosent make sense The real question is what happens when we die?

Nothing outside your mind can be absolutely proven...however it is extremely illogical, egocentric, and borderline insane to think everything revolves around you.

ah...the sweet sweet taste of nihilism

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Nothing outside your mind can be absolutely proven As even with evolution.......It's all just theories. Those science is going in this direction.

That old saying.....
Out of sight,
out of mind.