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a while ago i came to the horrid conclusion that its possible that i might be voting republican in 08 fear

the reason being the thought that the race could possibly (tragically) be hillary clinton and john mccain. has anyone else pondered this dreaded possibility? if so.........ponder

and when you are done, vote...and if you wish, discuss.

Oh,
A win win if I ever saw one...
Dunno who i'd vote for...

Jesus. He used guns, so it's logical to assume he'd be running as a Republican. That leaves Satan running as a Democrat.

(Oddly enough, some people might believe that this was accurate or that I had mixed up the candidates and their respective parties.)

from what i've observed, john mccain is more progressive and liberal than hilary clinton

John McCain is the only republican i would ever support.

that's great! I turn 18 in 2008! I'm voting for hilary!

edit: HEY !! i'm the only person voting hilary?!
You guys suck! big ol balls!

I really don't know either of their positions well enough to offer a comparitive analysis. I would have to research them both before voting.

I agree hes the only republican I would throw my vote out for...but i dont think Hilary would run in 08, not against a guy like McCain. it would be too much of a tight race

itd be cool to have her in office though...shed kick some real ass!

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
I really don't know either of their positions well enough to offer a comparitive analysis. I would have to research them both before voting.

Same. If it turns out that I like McCain's stances better than I do Hilary's, then, well, I'll be voting Republican.

i would much rather see obama run for office.
but the dems are stupid and choose gimmicks.
i believe hillary will get the nomination simply on
the grounds that she's a woman.
thus putting kerry ahead of edwards just so they
can play the war veteran card. i think hillary is a lowlife,
and in the pocket of the current administration.
hillary is just another neo-con dressed up as a liberal imho.

:edit: oops misread a post

Originally posted by PVS
i would much rather see obama run for office.
but the dems are stupid and choose gimmicks.
i believe hillary will get the nomination simply on
the grounds that she's a woman.
thus putting kerry ahead of edwards just so they
can play the war veteran card. i think hillary is a lowlife,
and in the pocket of the current administration.
hillary is just another neo-con dressed up as a liberal imho.

Obama's not going to run in 2008....I think he'll wait a little while longer. Maybe 2012.

However, I'd very much like to see him run for president as well.

who knows if we'll still have a democracy in 2012

Well, that all depends on who gets elected in 2008....

Thank god there is a limit in the US.

IN Canada we have no limit but we can have elections at various times.
Chretien went for 10 years (1993-2003)
Mulroney for 9 years (1984-1993) Thank god he left!
Trudeau for 15 years (1968-1979, 1980-1984)
King 21 years (he was ruling as long as a king 1921-1930, 1934-1948
Laurier (could have gone forever if he wasn't stupid) 1896-1911
McDonald 19 years (founding father) 1867-1873, 1878-1891

Were there any American presidents that lasted forever?

Hillary? Ich! Hell no.

*sniff* i'm all alone here... i support her all the way!

Why, exactly?

just because she's a woman....i should really find out more about both though shouldn't i?...

Originally posted by manny321
Thank god there is a limit in the US.

IN Canada we have no limit but we can have elections at various times.
Chretien went for 10 years (1993-2003)
Mulroney for 9 years (1984-1993) Thank god he left!
Trudeau for 15 years (1968-1979, 1980-1984)
King 21 years (he was ruling as long as a king 1921-1930, 1934-1948
Laurier (could have gone forever if he wasn't stupid) 1896-1911
McDonald 19 years (founding father) 1867-1873, 1878-1891

Were there any American presidents that lasted forever?

Only Roosevelt. He was President for four terms. After that, the constitution was changed so that a president could only serve two terms. The two term precedent was established by Washington, but only made law after Roosevelt.

Stewart/Colbert '08!!!

Originally posted by AdventChild
just because she's a woman....i should really find out more about both though shouldn't i?...

Yes, definitely. Support someone based on their stances on issues, not who they are.

well i'll worry about the issues in the next 9 months...

Grrr.... stupid democrats. Obama, Obama, Obama! Why can't you get it right?

In the scenario above, I have no clue who I'd vote for. I honestly don't know eaceh respective person's political views.

Id vote for Satan before I vote for HC. Looks like I'll be writing in Darth Vader once again.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Id vote for Satan before I vote for HC. Looks like I'll be writing in Darth Vader once again.

LMAO!!!!!!!! ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sry but that was just plain funny!

why do u vote?
what difference does it make who is in office?

well there's the well fare issure....abortion issue.... gay marriage issue...everything that republicans seem to be against.... Democrats support these issues deano that's why i makes a difference...

Originally posted by AdventChild
well there's the well fare issure....abortion issue.... gay marriage issue...everything that republicans seem to be against.... Democrats support these issues deano that's why i makes a difference...

You're missing the point of his post. While i might disagree with him on the reason, he's saying that it's pointless to vote, because neither party or candidate will make any difference.

oooh thanks capt....i disagree as well...

yeah, we'll just be voting for a lizard alien either way

well my point was that they are all controlled no matter what. so why be an idiot and vote? whateva happens is planned long before and whateva they(the hidden from behind the scenes) want to happen WILL happen no matter what. unless of course the human race pull there heads from there arse

Deano, if there was an Alien Race controlling ou governemnt, and we discovered it, then they'd simply stomp us out of existence.

ok

*blank*

This is an excellent thread just for the fact that it may quiet down some of the members who attack other members for their percieved liberal alligiances. I detest Bush and his cronies, however, if I were american and had the opportunity to vote I would vote for McCain in a second.


Originally posted by Deano
well my point was that they are all controlled no matter what. so why be an idiot and vote? whateva happens is planned long before and whateva they(the hidden from behind the scenes) want to happen WILL happen no matter what. unless of course the human race pull there heads from there arse

Your grasp of reality seems tenuous at best. Completely deluded at worst. I suggest you take your own advice and pull your head from your arse

Originally posted by Deano
well my point was that they are all controlled no matter what. so why be an idiot and vote? whateva happens is planned long before and whateva they(the hidden from behind the scenes) want to happen WILL happen no matter what. unless of course the human race pull there heads from there arse


Or people such as yourself pull your own head outta yer arse. I suggest you start your underground nation now and stop posting Deano before they figure you out and come to get you.............you do know everytime you post "they" are tracking you!

McCain.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
This is an excellent thread just for the fact that it may quiet down some of the members who attack other members for their percieved liberal alligiances. I detest Bush and his cronies, however, if I were american and had the opportunity to vote I would vote for McCain in a second.




Your grasp of reality seems tenuous at best. Completely deluded at worst. I suggest you take your own advice and pull your head from your arse

mcCain will save the day maaaaaaan .vote for him and things will be ok from then on.

Originally posted by Deano
mcCain will save the day maaaaaaan .vote for him and things will be ok from then on.

deano, can you please not derail this thread.
my point and the point of many others is that mccain is a far
better choice than hillary. nodody is insisting that he's the frikin
messiah, so can you please just knock it off.

i remember watching newsnight when they said that the most likely candidates would be hilary clinton (as we know already) and condoleeza rice

an all women presidential race...a very interesting prospect indeed

not sure if it'll happen though

Originally posted by jaden101
i remember watching newsnight when they said that the most likely candidates would be hilary clinton (as we know already) and condoleeza rice

an all women presidential race...a very interesting prospect indeed

not sure if it'll happen though

satan running against the antichrist? are there not antinepotism laws for elections?

well, if it comes down to that i just may be writing in "darth vader" as well

Originally posted by PVS
deano, can you please not derail this thread.
my point and the point of many others is that mccain is a far
better choice than hillary. nodody is insisting that he's the frikin
messiah, so can you please just knock it off.

as i said, it doesnt matter who is in office. they are all puppets.
but i will 'knock it off' from now on

*beep* Hillary Clinton...she needs to drop that stupid assumption that video games makes children more violent. Just for that she's off my christmas list...or maybe I should send her a copy of Half Life 2 as a gift.....

I really don't know enough aboot there programmes but since I personall prefer Republicans I'd say a moderate republican would be awesome. Oh..besides I mustnt vote in the US anyways....tss...they can kidnap our citizens but when it comes to voting....selfish bastards.

Originally posted by AdventChild
that's great! I turn 18 in 2008! I'm voting for hilary!

edit: HEY !! i'm the only person voting hilary?!
You guys suck! big ol balls!

I voted for Hilary!

I thnk these are great candidates! Ima be able to vote for the next election and if it comes to these to i dont know who ill pick! Im a hard core democrat always was for them, but john mccain is a really good candidate! he is the only rational and sane republican!!! rofl



yea that shit is so stupid to believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i dont see a connection between the two! why dont they focus on other more important things instead of stupid stuff like that!

Though i believe she is a good candidate cuz unlike many polititions she is one of the few people that try to reason w/ the other party. I thnk she will run because it seems that as of late she has been trying to appease to conservatives, does any1 thnk so too?

I dont like Republicans, i h8 almost all bcuz they are too ****in conservative and never do anythin good for us! But John McCain is a good guy, and he does stick up for wut he believes and doesnt go along w/ the party sometimes and thats wut i love about him! As for the democrats, they need to stop being such pussies and start speaking up!!!! They need to get their act 2gether for the next election because if McCain does run for president ill vote for him! somebody said condoleeza rice may be a candidate...rofl i hope not!!!!!!

Originally posted by XxILuvVegetaxX
he is the only rational and sane republican!!! rofl

really? did you really roll on the floor laughing when you typed that?

yes actually ^_^

I think Giuliani has a better chance than McCain for the republican spot.

giuliani:hitler

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
I think Giuliani has a better chance than McCain for the republican spot.

Perhaps you are right, McCain is too honest and has too much integrity to properly represent the current republican party.

Neither. A vote for any major party candidate is a vote for a corrupt system that no longer works. While both major parties may vary slightly on a few social issues both are firmly under the control of large, multinational corporations. Both have sold us out. Unless the rampant immigration is checked and free trade policies are repealed there is no future for the USA. China will soon replace us as the dominant world economic power and while it will take longer, the top military power as well. We only have ourselves to blame. Unless there is REAL change in the political process, something I am very pessimistic about, the USA is doomed.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Neither. A vote for any major party candidate is a vote for a corrupt system that no longer works. While both major parties may vary slightly on a few social issues both are firmly under the control of large, multinational corporations. Both have sold us out. Unless the rampant immigration is checked and free trade policies are repealed there is no future for the USA. China will soon replace us as the dominant world economic power and while it will take longer, the top military power as well. We only have ourselves to blame. Unless there is REAL change in the political process, something I am very pessimistic about, the USA is doomed.

a very well thought out point which i agree with. unfortunately its purely idealistic thinking like that that allowed bush to get into office. nader anyone?

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Neither. A vote for any major party candidate is a vote for a corrupt system that no longer works. While both major parties may vary slightly on a few social issues both are firmly under the control of large, multinational corporations. Both have sold us out. Unless the rampant immigration is checked and free trade policies are repealed there is no future for the USA. China will soon replace us as the dominant world economic power and while it will take longer, the top military power as well. We only have ourselves to blame. Unless there is REAL change in the political process, something I am very pessimistic about, the USA is doomed.

so you suggest Green party candidates?

Yes soon China and Japan will takeover >_<

Yea McCain might not get the spot...he doesnt tend to go w/ the party sometimes...hes actually honest...hes not corrupt....he's not of puppet like the rest of those a holes

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
so you suggest Green party candidates?


Well, last election I voted for Badnarick (Libertarian) even though I don't support much about his party's movement. Looking back I should have voted for Nader. We need a real grass roots reform movement with viable candidates. Unfortunately I don't see it happening. The vast majority still foolishly believe that voting either Democrat or Republican is the answer. They may believe, correctly this time, that only such candidates can win elections. I wish I had a real solution. I don't. I do see LOTS of problems in the future.

1)Rising oil prices will be our main problem in the coming 5-10 years. This will cause high inflation which will have a snowball effect.
a)Interest rates will rise...causing
b)the national housing market to crash
c)People will have less money for other things
d)Business will further cut back to try to survive causing
1)Further demand for outsourcing and calls for more cheap labor immigrants
One could argue that withdrawing from Iraq would lessen our national financial strain but it also leaves our oil supply vulnerable.

Politicians pay lip service to the fuel crisis when gasoline is nearly $3 a gallon but go back to debating non issues like abortion and gay marriage when oil prices fall a little.

The solution of the current administration to this is to drill for oil in Alaska. This is like trying to fix a severed arm with a small band aid. The amount of oil up there is limited and even the most optimistic estimates say it will only buy us 2-3 years. Many estimates put it at a year or less.

Government needs to quit pandering to the oil lobby and encourage the development of alternative fuels. The technology is already in place for many of these. Production costs are the problem.

But, I keep hearing about the patriot act, terrorism, gay marriage, abortion, should "under God" be in the pledge, etc, etc. etc. Everything EXCEPT what's REALLY important.

Just wait a few years. The writing's on the wall but people don't want to see it. Go ahead and support the status quo, see where it will lead.

Didnt Nader want to legalize weed? ...just a random question lol ^_^

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Neither. A vote for any major party candidate is a vote for a corrupt system that no longer works. While both major parties may vary slightly on a few social issues both are firmly under the control of large, multinational corporations. Both have sold us out. Unless the rampant immigration is checked and free trade policies are repealed there is no future for the USA. China will soon replace us as the dominant world economic power and while it will take longer, the top military power as well. We only have ourselves to blame. Unless there is REAL change in the political process, something I am very pessimistic about, the USA is doomed.


OH NOES!!

Originally posted by XxILuvVegetaxX
Didnt Nader want to legalize weed? ...just a random question lol ^_^

yes

Originally posted by jaden101
i remember watching newsnight when they said that the most likely candidates would be hilary clinton (as we know already) and condoleeza rice

an all women presidential race...a very interesting prospect indeed

not sure if it'll happen though

Wow, that would be one hell of an issue of 'What If..."

I would just crumple under the political pressure of such a loaded race. The first black/female candidate...running as a republican...! It would totally flip the demographic on it's ****ing ear! Blacks and whites/demoracts and republicans would be totally confused. If the future of the country weren't at stake, I'd love to see such a race.

But, Rice is kind of a no one candidate. So was Bush, and she has been a very public figure, but I just don't see the republicans putting her face on their party.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Wow, that would be one hell of an issue of 'What If..."

I would just crumple under the political pressure of such a loaded race. The first black/female candidate...running as a republican...! It would totally flip the demographic on it's ****ing ear! Blacks and whites/demoracts and republicans would be totally confused. If the future of the country weren't at stake, I'd love to see such a race.

But, Rice is kind of a no one candidate. So was Bush, and she has been a very public figure, but I just don't see the republicans putting her face on their party.

But the new demographic she could bring to the Republican party alone may be all they need. With their lower public support, they just might put her up front.

Though I'd much rather see McCain.

Vote Libretarian: They embody the good aspects of both parties.

Hilary Clinton...el oh el

Originally posted by KidRock
Hilary Clinton...el oh el

I Nominate myself the new leader of the Decepticons, (maybe not, Starscream got his screechy buttocks killed after saying something to that effect.)

Hmmm. I would vote democrat if I was American, because I like voting, and the democrats are the best of a bad bunch (in my eyes anyway.) That, and I don't know much about McCain, other then McCain is also the name of one of Australia's biggest frozen food companies, but I suspect there is no connection between the two...

I have to wonder though about the likelihood of Republican reelection, from Australian media sources one has heard the term "lame duck"regarding Bush's current term in office, and apparently the Republicans popularity has dropped way down with the various dramas that have cropped up, such as New Orleans, the continuing war, Bush's credibility and so forth. In fact in the early days following Bush's reelection the names put up of the people who might following him included Rice, but then she doesn't seem that popular (from the outside looking in at least.)

figured id bump this thread since the 'hypothetical' part is quickly turning to reality.

vote damn you.

oh btw my vote is now solid on clinton, since holy joe drank the wingnut koolaid

oh yeah:

Originally posted by Lana
Obama's not going to run in 2008

WrjwaqZfjIY

Between those two... I'd have to go for the wingnut, a few shakes of the terrorist-rattle and people will simply just not vote for a woman.

Originally posted by PVS
oh yeah:



WrjwaqZfjIY

I hope my dad votes for him, because I sure as hell would -_-

Originally posted by AdventChild
that's great! I turn 18 in 2008! I'm voting for hilary!

edit: HEY !! i'm the only person voting hilary?!
You guys suck! big ol balls!

I would rather amputate my own hand than vote for that vile witch

Originally posted by Grimm22
I would rather amputate my own hand than vote for that vile witch

please explain why she is a "vile witch"

17-3...who stole all the votes?

must be that electronic voting thats all corrupt and stuff...damn republicans

i posted this thread about a year ago, shortly before mccain drank the koolaid.

in fact i voted mccain when i posted it.

well....i've said it before....you cant triple stamp a double stamp

I vote for the Obama - Clinton ticket.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Only Roosevelt. He was President for four terms. After that, the constitution was changed so that a president could only serve two terms. The two term precedent was established by Washington, but only made law after Roosevelt. He was elected to four terms, he died shortly after his 3rd term ended

Originally posted by Alliance
I vote for the Obama - Clinton ticket. I'd call for Obama/Bayh. That would be a presidential ticket I'd be proud of.

Obama.

Why would someone vote the satan herself?

McCain is almost as blinkered as Bush, and Hilary is a crack-whore...decisions, decisions...

I'd probably vote for the crack-head because that would be fun to watch.

In a lovely world, it would be the guy who has done a line or two of coke. People who do that are cool. Plus, he smoked AND inhaled the reefer.

Side-note: Hilary would never run as a VP.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
McCain is almost as blinkered as Bush, and Hilary is a crack-whore...decisions, decisions...

If you're implying that he's as dumb as Bush, then you're wrong. Of all the candidates, he's the most qualified and most experience...which in my book; equals most deserving.

Add to that, McCain is a war hero and a fellow Arizonan. He'll get my vote for the presidency, just as he got my vote for the Arizona Senate this past November.

Originally posted by Alliance
I vote for the Obama - Clinton ticket.

The smart thing would be for Obama to be the V.P.

Then if all goes well for eight years, he can run for president in 2016 and give the Dems another 8 years.

This was attempted and half-way succeeded by Bush 41, being Reagan's VP and then elected to President.Originally posted by Quiero Mota
If you're implying that he's as dumb as Bush, then you're wrong. Of all the candidates, he's the most qualified and most experience...which in my book; equals most deserving.

Add to that, McCain is a war hero and a fellow Arizonan. He'll get my vote for the presidency, just as he got my vote for the Arizona Senate this past November. Orale guey, Mota!

Good points. The only thing that worries me about McCain is his age and I'm afraid of what would happen if he died in office. Is he over 72? Just curious because that would make him 80 years old by the end of his presidency.

Perhaps he should run with Guilianni as his VP.


Y tu. Tu eres un Republican o un Democrat?

I can't figure your positions out.. it seems that you're a fiscal and foriegn relations conservative, and moderate to liberal on social issues.

Si o no?

only idiots vote. your even more of an idiot if you think your vote will change a thing

Originally posted by Deano
only idiots vote. your even more of an idiot if you think your vote will change a thing

Yeah because god forbid I take advantage of democracy, right?

So 97% of US citizens are idiots?!?

Its stuff like this that makes me question the sanity of the human race

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
If you're implying that he's as dumb as Bush, then you're wrong. Of all the candidates, he's the most qualified and most experience...which in my book; equals most deserving.

Add to that, McCain is a war hero and a fellow Arizonan. He'll get my vote for the presidency, just as he got my vote for the Arizona Senate this past November.

I'm stating that he's blinkered, as in he's impervious to the fallacy of his convictions despite the factual evidence showing them to be just that; fallacies.

As for him being a 'war hero', woo-hoo! So, he did some things in another unjust war? Wow...that makes him real heroic.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good points. The only thing that worries me about McCain is his age and I'm afraid of what would happen if he died in office. Is he over 72? Just curious because that would make him 80 years old by the end of his presidency.

Perhaps he should run with Guilianni as his VP.

He's 70, and with Rudy as his running mate, they would definitely be a take-action administration.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Y tu. Tu eres un Republican o un Democrat?

I can't figure your positions out.. it seems that you're a fiscal and foriegn relations conservative, and moderate to liberal on social issues.

Si o no?

I'm a Democrat, carnal. Pero I'm by no means a lefty; I'm very much in the middle. I'm willing to vote for a Republican if the guy appeals to me, ey. In this case McCain.

And yeah, I'm fiscally conservative, but socially liberal.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I'm stating that he's blinkered, as in he's impervious to the fallacy of his convictions despite the factual evidence showing them to be just that; fallacies.

As for him being a 'war hero', woo-hoo! So, he did some things in another unjust war? Wow...that makes him real heroic.

He was a POW at the 'Hanoi Hilton' for five and half years and went through some real shit. That combined with the fact that I like the guy already helps me to side with him.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good points. The only thing that worries me about McCain is his age and I'm afraid of what would happen if he died in office. Is he over 72? Just curious because that would make him 80 years old by the end of his presidency.Assuming he's elected twice

Originally posted by Strangelove
Assuming he's elected twice

That's the idea.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
That's the idea. In general, I like McCain. He's a good guy, politically moderate, but the fact that he's courting the hyperconservative evangelicals that he used to be so critical of is troubling. Like Bush, he should 'stick to his guns,' but in this case, they're good guns.

Originally posted by Strangelove
In general, I like McCain. He's a good guy, politically moderate, but the fact that he's courting the hyperconservative evangelicals that he used to be so critical of is troubling. Like Bush, he should 'stick to his guns,' but in this case, they're good guns.

Forgive me for being daft, but what did I miss?

I also heard PVS say that McCain drank the Holy Joe juice, so I'm assuming that he made some statements reversing some of his social positions?

What was the switch?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Forgive me for being daft, but what did I miss?

I also heard PVS say that McCain drank the Holy Joe juice, so I'm assuming that he made some statements reversing some of his social positions?

What was the switch?

he's basically swiched to full reverse and is now bush 2.0 and will readily bend over at any moment to recieve pat robertson's seed.

Originally posted by PVS
he's basically swiched to full reverse and is now bush 2.0 and will readily bend over at any moment to recieve pat robertson's seed. To translate: McCain, who was once critical (really critical) of evangelicals like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, is now speaking at Falwell's Liberty University, and actively courting "the base"

Originally posted by Strangelove
To translate: McCain, who was once critical (really critical) of evangelicals like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, is now speaking at Falwell's Liberty University, and actively courting "the base"

Yes, but speaking at a pastor's university to encourage said "base" to vote his way is only politics. Shouldn't be a big deal, as most politicians will speak with those they don't necessarily agree with to broaden apeal and get more votes.

He needs those votes if he's to lead conservative and moderate Republicans to his cause come November 2008.




My question was if he's said anything to reverse or modify a position that he's already taken on any particular issue.


(Obama spoke at Pastor Rick Warren, writer of The Purpose Drive Life's church, though they don't agree on abortion, gay marriage, etc...)

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yeah because god forbid I take advantage of democracy, right?

So 97% of US citizens are idiots?!?

Its stuff like this that makes me question the sanity of the human race


do some research. its all a con. politcians are there to give you the idea that you have free choice...you dont..you have no fuking choice.

one miniscule example:

..bush and kerry..both cousins, blood related..both part of skull and bones. on the surface they may appear to be oppose each other..buts its all an act to fool the dumb masses. its all a con.

so go ahead to your little polling booths and keep kidding yourself that your vote will change your country for the better when in reality, america is being destroyed by design

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Yes, but speaking at a pastor's university to encourage said "base" to vote his way is only politics. Shouldn't be a big deal, as most politicians will speak with those they don't necessarily agree with to broaden apeal and get more votes.

He needs those votes if he's to lead conservative and moderate Republicans to his cause come November 2008.




My question was if he's said anything to reverse or modify a position that he's already taken on any particular issue.


(Obama spoke at Pastor Rick Warren, writer of The Purpose Drive Life's church, though they don't agree on abortion, gay marriage, etc...)

Sen. John McCain said Tuesday he hopes to patch things up with conservative Christian leader James Dobson, who recently said he wouldn't support the Republican's presidential bid under any circumstances.

In a radio interview with KCBI, a Dallas Christian station, Dobson argued that McCain didn't support traditional marriage values and said he has prayed "we won't get stuck with him." Dobson is founder of Focus on the Family.

"I'm obviously disappointed and I'd like to continue and have a dialogue with Dr. Dobson and other members of the community," McCain said Tuesday during a stop in Columbia.

McCain has also reached out to other conservatives he once crossed.

Last May, he spoke at Falwell's Liberty University in Virginia. In 2000, Falwell opposed McCain's campaign for the GOP nomination and supported George W. Bush. At the time, McCain labeled Falwell and others on the right and the left as "agents of intolerance."

During his 2000 presidential bid, McCain also criticized Bob Jones University, a Christian fundamentalist college, for its ban on interracial dating. McCain said last year that he wouldn't turn down an opportunity to speak at Bob Jones.

"I'm happy to say that I've established a dialogue with a number of other leaders," including the Rev. Jerry Falwell, "Purpose Driven Life" author Rick Warren and Dr. Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
(Obama spoke at Pastor Rick Warren, writer of The Purpose Drive Life's church, though they don't agree on abortion, gay marriage, etc...) Obama, however, does not compromise his own beliefs when speaking to those with somewhat contrary ideologies. Pastor Rick Warren himself said (paraphrasing) "I may not agree with all of Obama's beliefs, but I believe he is a true Christian"

McCain, however, is on full reverse.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Sen. John McCain said Tuesday he hopes to patch things up with conservative Christian leader James Dobson, who recently said he wouldn't support the Republican's presidential bid under any circumstances.

In a radio interview with KCBI, a Dallas Christian station, Dobson argued that McCain didn't support traditional marriage values and said he has prayed "we won't get stuck with him." Dobson is founder of Focus on the Family.

"I'm obviously disappointed and I'd like to continue and have a dialogue with Dr. Dobson and other members of the community," McCain said Tuesday during a stop in Columbia.

McCain has also reached out to other conservatives he once crossed.

Last May, he spoke at Falwell's Liberty University in Virginia. In 2000, Falwell opposed McCain's campaign for the GOP nomination and supported George W. Bush. At the time, McCain labeled Falwell and others on the right and the left as "agents of intolerance."

During his 2000 presidential bid, McCain also criticized Bob Jones University, a Christian fundamentalist college, for its ban on interracial dating. McCain said last year that he wouldn't turn down an opportunity to speak at Bob Jones.

"I'm happy to say that I've established a dialogue with a number of other leaders," including the Rev. Jerry Falwell, "Purpose Driven Life" author Rick Warren and Dr. Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention. Originally posted by Strangelove
Obama, however, does not compromise his own beliefs when speaking to those with somewhat contrary ideologies. Pastor Rick Warren himself said (paraphrasing) "I may not agree with all of Obama's beliefs, but I believe he is a true Christian"

McCain, however, is on full reverse.

Again, other than saying that he'd like to talk to Christian conservative leaders, obviously in attempts to get them and their followers voting support, and saying that he hopes to work with them....



I don't see where he's changed any stance on any particular issue.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Again, other than saying that he'd like to talk to Christian conservative leaders, obviously in attempts to get them and their followers voting support, and saying that he hopes to work with them....



I don't see where he's changed any stance on any particular issue. He hasn't done anything outright, such as flip-flop oh, but by courting the hyperconservative evangelicals, he's showing the people that he's willing to go against his principles to get the vote. He'll lose some of the independent vote that way.

Originally posted by Strangelove
He hasn't done anything outright, such as flip-flop oh, but by courting the hyperconservative evangelicals, he's showing the people that he's willing to go against his principles to get the vote. He'll lose some of the independent vote that way.

I see.

It'll be interesting to see (if that is indeed the case that mere dialouge with evangelicals will lose independant votes) whether or not the independants or the evangelicals end up being the most beneficial to him in the long run.



Out of curiosity....

So for yourself (or PVS if you're reading this) this changes your opinion about him enough that you wouldn't vote for him, when before you liked him?



Even if his stances on issues didn't change (just as Obama won't change certain stances but still speaks at churches), and all he did was extend a welcome to the other type of Republicans that he's been at odds with before in a hope to broaden apeal.....

You now have a problem with McCain?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Out of curiosity....

So for yourself (or PVS if you're reading this) this changes your opinion about him enough that you wouldn't vote for him, when before you liked him?



Even if his stances on issues didn't change (just as Obama won't change certain stances but still speaks at churches), and all he did was extend a welcome to the other type of Republicans that he's been at odds with before in a hope to broaden apeal.....

You now have a problem with McCain? a) I wouldn't have voted for him in the first place, since he's for the Iraq War

b) It's not about 'extending a welcome' to those which he once called (and I quote) 'agents of intolerance.' It's abasing himself to pander to the evangelical base. If he simply ran for president as he is, he might win an election over Hillary Clinton (assuming that he/she gets their respective nominations) simply because he's more likable.

This 'pander to the base' ideology is the brainchild of Karl Rove and President Bush, and considering the public sentiment towards them at the moment, it's not a good thing for McCain.

Originally posted by Deano
do some research. its all a con. politcians are there to give you the idea that you have free choice...you dont..you have no fuking choice.

one miniscule example:

..bush and kerry..both cousins, blood related..both part of skull and bones. on the surface they may appear to be oppose each other..buts its all an act to fool the dumb masses. its all a con.

so go ahead to your little polling booths and keep kidding yourself that your vote will change your country for the better when in reality, america is being destroyed by design

Yeah yeah yeah

And the government is behind 9/11 right?

Spare me you're simplistic conspiracy theories.

Yes, we've learned not to take Deano's political ramblings seriously.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yeah yeah yeah

And the government is behind 9/11 right?



yes right. why do you believe otherwise? explain. oh wait cos the government told the media and the media told the people, and everyone believed the story without question therefore if everyone believes its true then it must be so. how stupid of me. for a minute there i thought the human race were a bunch of lazy sheep...oh wait...

tell me... when are idiots going to see that there is no conspiracy theory in 9/11. only conspiracy fact.

Its not even a theory...its more a conspiracy idea.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
He was a POW at the 'Hanoi Hilton' for five and half years and went through some real shit. That combined with the fact that I like the guy already helps me to side with him.

So, he got caught, and 'went through some real shit'? Yeah, that makes him a hero, for sure...

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes, we've learned not to take Deano's political ramblings seriously.

Good to know

I was going to start to question the sanity of some of the posters if they took political advice from a man who apparently carves names into his arms

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes, we've learned not to take Deano's political ramblings seriously. True, but the notion that 97% of eligible electorate in the U.S. actually utilise their vote was also worth a chuckle. Try around 50-60%.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
So, he got caught, and 'went through some real shit'? Yeah, that makes him a hero, for sure... Join the army, please?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Nah, I'm one of those smart, educated people John Kerry talked about... I know that, which is why I suggested you join the army.

Argh....

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
So, he got caught, and 'went through some real shit'? Yeah, that makes him a hero, for sure...

Well you obviously have no respect.

Besides, considering your nationality, this thread doesn't even apply to you.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Well you obviously have no respect.

Besides, considering your nationality, this thread doesn't even apply to you.

"Respect" for what?

Respect for what the man went through.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Respect for what the man went through.

Which "men" would that be?

Senator McCain.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Well you obviously have no respect.

Besides, considering your nationality, this thread doesn't even apply to you.

I sympathize with him suffering an ordeal, but that doesn't make him a hero.

As we have seen from the atrocities committed by Bush, the President of America affects every single person on Earth. So, yeah...It does apply to me.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Senator McCain.

Well, it's nice that you have respect for what he went through, but he doesn't seem to have any respect for it.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
So, he got caught, and 'went through some real shit'? Yeah, that makes him a hero, for sure...

Every man and woman who has the courage to put their lives on the line for the sake of freedom is a hero

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I sympathize with him suffering an ordeal, but that doesn't make him a hero.

As we have seen from the atrocities committed by Bush, the President of America affects every single person on Earth. So, yeah...It does apply to me.

Atrocities?

You may disagree with the war in Iraq and some of the tactics that his administration have supported in the war on terror, but that doesn't mean he has committed 'atrocities'

Originally posted by Grimm22
Every man and woman who has the courage to put their lives on the line for the sake of freedom is a hero

What freedom are you talking about? Vietnamese? Iraqi? Ahahahaha...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Atrocities?

You may disagree with the war in Iraq and some of the tactics that his administration have supported in the war on terror, but that doesn't mean he has committed 'atrocities'

Guantanamo Bay, the killing of Iraqi civilians, the erosion of civil liberties, the bullying of other nations to conform, the slowness of his response to Katrina, the dereliction of duty regarding the environment...I could go on, and all of them are atrocious.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Atrocities?

You may disagree with the war in Iraq and some of the tactics that his administration have supported in the war on terror, but that doesn't mean he has committed 'atrocities'

Maybe you don't understand the extent of what he has done.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
What freedom are you talking about? Vietnamese? Iraqi? Ahahahaha...

Just because you lack the courage or the goodwill to do what they do doesn't mean you have to a jackass





1.Guantanamo Bay: Prisoners are treated better than we treat American prisoners

2. All wars result in the deaths of civilians, its an sad and unfortunate, but true.

3. The federal government is not responsible for the responsibilities of state government. To do the opposite, would give the federal government complete control of over the country, which is exactly the reason we don't allow the federal government to force states to make the decisions of the states

4. wtf?!? Environment?!? I'm not going to bother

Originally posted by Alliance
Maybe you don't understand the extent of what he has done.

Bush is a decent president at best

But he isn't a war criminal like liberals want to believe

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bush is a decent president at best

But he isn't a war criminal like liberals want to believe Bush is not a decent President by any measure. He is a mediocre president at best

Originally posted by Grimm22
Just because you lack the courage or the goodwill to do what they do doesn't mean you have to a jackass

Do you need courage to agree to be a soldier for a country that fights unjust wars? I think not. I think you need to be an idiotic pawn, not courageous.

Originally posted by Grimm22
1.Guantanamo Bay: Prisoners are treated better than we treat American prisoners

2. All wars result in the deaths of civilians, its an sad and unfortunate, but true.

3. The federal government is not responsible for the responsibilities of state government. To do the opposite, would give the federal government complete control of over the country, which is exactly the reason we don't allow the federal government to force states to make the decisions of the states

4. wtf?!? Environment?!? I'm not going to bother

Oh, dear. You're another one, aren't you? Yes, you are.

1. The rest of the world agrees that Guantanamo represents the greatest mockery of human-rights in the world today.

2. Haha, so you buy into the propaganda that you've been fed about the loss of human life being acceptably classed as 'collateral damage'? It's funny how this same loss of life is so totally unacceptable when it's Americans who are losing theirs...

3. Do you really believe that? How sad.

4. Haha, that's exactly what Bush says!

Go back to school, kid. You're in need of some edumakashun.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Do you need courage to agree to be a soldier for a country that fights unjust wars? I think not. I think you need to be an idiotic pawn, not courageous.



Oh, dear. You're another one, aren't you? Yes, you are.

1. The rest of the world agrees that Guantanamo represents the greatest mockery of human-rights in the world today.

2. Haha, so you buy into the propaganda that you've been fed about the loss of human life being acceptably classed as 'collateral damage'? It's funny how this same loss of life is so totally unacceptable when it's Americans who are losing theirs...

3. Do you really believe that? How sad.

4. Haha, that's exactly what Bush says!

Go back to school, kid. You're in need of some edumakashun.

You sir are a perfect example of what is wrong with the world today.

1. Facts > Propaganda, the prisoners even get a freakin library of American books translated into Arabic for them.

2. You obviously didn't read what I said

3. If anyone needs to go back to school its you. Thomas Jefferson, created the Democratic-Republican party, to oppose the Federalist Party, which wanted the federal government to have power over the states. However, if the federal government had power over the states, than the entire point of representation would be pointless, as the elected officials would have no power to represent the people.

4. I have one word for you .... Manbearpig

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Do you need courage to agree to be a soldier for a country that fights unjust wars? I think not. I think you need to be an idiotic pawn, not courageous.

The life of any US Soldier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything you will ever account for

Originally posted by Grimm22
You sir are a perfect example of what is wrong with the world today.

1. Facts > Propaganda, the prisoners even get a freakin library of American books translated into Arabic for them.

2. You obviously didn't read what I said

3. If anyone needs to go back to school its you. Thomas Jefferson, created the Democratic-Republican party, to oppose the Federalist Party, which wanted the federal government to have power over the states. However, if the federal government had power over the states, than the entire point of representation would be pointless, as the elected officials would have no power to represent the people.

4. I have one word for you .... Manbearpig

Haha, you're not even worth my time.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Bush is a decent president at best

But he isn't a war criminal like liberals want to believe

Really! Please explain how Bush has not violated International and US war crimes laws. Liberals? Please.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Do you need courage to agree to be a soldier for a country that fights unjust wars? I think not. I think you need to be an idiotic pawn, not courageous.

Who the hell do you think you are? Do you even know anyone in the military? Do you bury your friends and family? Or are you just some stupid kid so wrapped up in propoganda that you have no idea what the military is or its members actually are?

Pathetic. Simply Pathetic. And something personally painful for me.
Originally posted by Strangelove
Bush is not a decent President by any measure. He is a mediocre president at best

If by mediocre you mean pathetic. I can't think of any president in history besides James Buchanan who has put our nation in a more perilous position.

edited

Originally posted by Alliance
Who the hell do you think you are? Do you even know anyone in the military? Do you bury your friends and family? Or are you just some stupid kid so wrapped up in propoganda that you have no idea what the military is or its members actually are?

Eh, I think I'm a guy stating my opinion. Yes, I do. Not yet. No, not that either.

Originally posted by Alliance
Pathetic. Simply Pathetic. And something personally painful for me.

Not really. I just think fighting unjust wars isn't anything to be considered 'heroic'. Especially when the military might of the countries being attacked is almost infinitesimal in comparison to the US' arsenal.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo

Not really. I just think fighting unjust wars isn't anything to be considered 'heroic'. Especially when the military might of the countries being attacked is almost infinitesimal in comparison to the US' arsenal.

Although the irony exists that despite the US military superiority on paper the end result always seems the same: a lot of good people dying, both soldiers and civilians, who by all rights shouldn't have, for ideals increasingly intangible.

John McCain used to have principles. But he's tripping over himself to back Bush now. He folded on the torture issue. He's pandering to social conservatives. Face it. He's a pussy and *gasp* a flip-flopper. We'd be much better off with Clinton. Even on the issue that most people want her to change her position on (the vote to authorize military action in Iraq) she won't.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Do you need courage to agree to be a soldier for a country that fights unjust wars? I think not. I think you need to be an idiotic pawn, not courageous.
Go to hell. And don't you dare judge us. You have no idea.


We're not fighting their military.

Originally posted by Strangelove
We'd be much better off with Clinton. Even on the issue that most people want her to change her position on (the vote to authorize military action in Iraq) she won't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKt71ykKH7g

Hmm...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKt71ykKH7g

Hmm... That means nothing

Originally posted by Strangelove
That means nothing

We don't hold politicians at their words anymore then? (or just conservative ones?)

She's just as much of a back-peddler as McCain.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
We don't hold politicians at their words anymore then? (or just conservative ones?)

She's just as much of a back-peddler as McCain. How is that back-pedaling? Enlighten me, please. I fail to see anything different then her current position

OK you win.

She's not actually taking back her vote for the war, just saying that she wouldn't have GONE to war if she was the pres.


No back-peddle there.

Originally posted by Strangelove
That means nothing It does to me.

Originally posted by AdventChild
just because she's a woman....i should really find out more about both though shouldn't i?...

That might be a good start.

There was just a McCain ad at the top of KMC.

McCain is pretty much falling by the wayside these days

Of course, this is me, talking in March of 2007

Wait until he gets the nomination.

which btw...there was in interesting series of polls (in Newsweek or Time, I can't remember) about how little Americans know of Guiliani's policies and reputation.

Makes me wonder if we'll see his #'s fall.

i'd vote guiliani. he did an AMAZING job in new york. aside from 9/11, the city is hugely safer since his term.