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I don't like where this is going right now with the new wall plan. Personally i think it is a lot of bull, and it will create more problems that we don't need.

I disagree. West germany and east geramny was a very bad idea because the two parts where uneven with supplies and money. West germany was very poor because russia didnt do there job of helping west germany. USA, great britain, and freance where the ones who did there job by helping east germany with money and supplies.

They broke down the wall for a reason, not to end up re-buliding it in the long run

LOL yeah right lets see the difference here is ALOT more then the berlin wall. If Mexico feels it is discriminating and causing further deaths then don't blame the USA take care of your people!

Good about damn time we build this wall.

no no no...it was called that because the Congress of the US is going to make a wall seperating the US and Mexico

Originally posted by Saratn
no no no...it was called that because the Congress of the US is going to make a wall seperating the US and Mexico


Yup I know I have seen some of the designs they have proposed on TV its about time wahoo!

Originally posted by JacopeX
I disagree. West germany and east geramny was a very bad idea because the two parts where uneven with supplies and money. West germany was very poor because russia didnt do there job of helping west germany. USA, great britain, and freance where the ones who did there job by helping east germany with money and supplies. East Germany was Russian not west...
and it had some deeper reasons actually




and form what I understood from this article, it is something else now..
the fact that they don't want illegal immigrants has some sense...
the thing with berlin wall was a bit different, it was to stop people from leaving, not to not let them to the west europe.

i kind of disagree with the Congress, but it is for a greater cause, unlike the Berlin Wall.

Whatever will keep those damn illegal mexicans out of our country. I say shoot on sight.

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!!

I was born the night the original Berlin wall came down. his is different. The wall in berlin had some very powerful political and millitary reason behind it. This is to stop illegal immigrants coming in. Mexico can shut the hell up. And i agree with Kidrocks post. SHOOT ON SIGHT!

Originally posted by PVS
THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!!!

they really take jobs that other people won't take. like working at gas stations. not a lot of people want to work there

Originally posted by Saratn
they really take jobs that other people won't take. like working at gas stations. not a lot of people want to work there

im just quoting a great southpark episode....dont mind me

Jobs aside they do eat up tax dollars nicely Yum yum eat up American dollars......

great, another thread to blame american's problems on dem damn mexicans.

This does seem like a really stupid idea, no offense.
Why not just get some better border security?
Manmade borders always seem more evil, somehow.

Originally posted by PVS
great, another thread to blame american's problems on dem damn mexicans.


uh huh whatever, save it for your anti bush threads. Illegal immigrants are a problem. Legal immigrants come aboard welcome to USA its the illegal and how the Mexican govt is responding to the wall via the link there that is retarded.

yet, lets not go after the scum who hire them, because they are most likely white and wealthy. let us attack the symptom rather than the cause.


start throwing these executive pricks behind bars and you'll see the problem clear up pretty damn quick. but that makes too much sense doesnt it? lets just piss our tax dollars away and make the next great wall. brilliant

Originally posted by PVS
yet, lets not go after the scum who hire them, because they are most likely white and wealthy. let us attack the symptom rather than the cause.


start throwing these executive pricks behind bars and you'll see the problem clear up pretty damn quick. but that makes too much sense doesnt it? lets just piss our tax dollars away and make the next great wall. brilliant


Your right the next great wall brilliant!

Originally posted by PVS
yet, lets not go after the scum who hire them, because they are most likely white and wealthy. let us attack the symptom rather than the cause.


start throwing these executive pricks behind bars and you'll see the problem clear up pretty damn quick. but that makes too much sense doesnt it? lets just piss our tax dollars away and make the next great wall. brilliant They're both a problem. I'd rather get rid of them both, but it's much easier to stop the flow of Illegal Imigrants (Believe it or not, they're not all Mexican =O =O =O), then deport the rest of the illegals. If you remove the one's that hire them, another will replace them.

Maybe imposing tougher sanctions on the people hiring them would dissuade some?

Originally posted by eggmayo
Maybe imposing tougher sanctions on the people hiring them would dissuade some?


There are alot of laws that are supposed to do this already except guess what........they don't work as expected sadly enough. Anyway whats irritating is the way the mexican govt is responding to the wall, so lame.

No, but I mean MAKE the laws work. Loopholes can be closed.

Originally posted by JacopeX
I disagree. West germany and east geramny was a very bad idea because the two parts where uneven with supplies and money. West germany was very poor because russia didnt do there job of helping west germany. USA, great britain, and freance where the ones who did there job by helping east germany with money and supplies.
uh..you got it a bit messed up there...the allies (France, GB and U.S. were responsible for west germany as for the former Soviet Union had "rulership" over eastern germay...

Originally posted by RogerRamjet
uh..you got it a bit messed up there...the allies (France, GB and U.S. were responsible for west germany as for the former Soviet Union had "rulership" over eastern germay...
The allies had East Berlin too, don't forget.

Originally posted by eggmayo
The allies had East Berlin too, don't forget.

yes in the very beginning...but they left it under the juristiction of the USSR in order to prevent a war with them...as we learend 40 years later..

Originally posted by Snoopbert
They're both a problem. I'd rather get rid of them both, but it's much easier to stop the flow of Illegal Imigrants (Believe it or not, they're not all Mexican =O =O =O), then deport the rest of the illegals. If you remove the one's that hire them, another will replace them. so long as there is demand for migrant workers, nothing will stop them from coming here. you think we can frighten them with guns and a stupid frikin wall? in the face of seeing their families suffer, they risk their lives every day to come here. thats reality.

erase the demand, and there is no reason for them to come here.
(and in america, the majority are mexican.)

the solution is as simple as punishing rich white businessmen, but OH LORD WE CANT DO THAT!!!!1111ONEONE rather than fine the shit out of them and actually gain revenue, lets build a ridiculous wall, sink ourselves further into defecite, and solve little or nothing....just so we dont have to give up our racist tendencies. (racism not aimed at you, but you must admit many opinions are steered purely by that)

supply and demand. its such a basic and simple concept but people wont hear it. because we are conditioned to blame and hate the impoverished brown man, rather than the fat cat inviting him and paying him.

Originally posted by PVS
so long as there is demand for migrant workers, nothing will stop them from coming here. you think we can frighten them with guns and a stupid frikin wall? in the face of seeing their families suffer, they risk their lives every day to come here. thats reality.

erase the demand, and there is no reason for them to come here.
(and in america, the majority are mexican.)

the solution is as simple as punishing rich white businessmen, but OH LORD WE CANT DO THAT!!!!1111ONEONE rather than fine the shit out of them and actually gain revenue, lets build a ridiculous wall, sink ourselves further into defecite, and solve little or nothing....just so we dont have to give up our racist tendencies. (racism not aimed at you, but you must admit many opinions are steered purely by that)

supply and demand. its such a basic and simple concept but people wont hear it. because we are conditioned to blame and hate the impoverished brown man, rather than the fat cat inviting him and paying him.

lol not to mention the conditioning required to think that all the men in charge are fat white men!!!!

So we punish what 200 of your "rich white business men" (hell women run companies as well) for what 1 million each? 20 million dollars.......even more or we take some of the people off border patrol that are gonna be more like 48 million a year MINIMUM increase (not current costs just expected increases with NEW guards) and I can see where your idea makes alot of sense.........uh huh. Lets also not forget the legal costs of making these people pay so you generate FAR less revenue then you expect.............

Originally posted by PVS
so long as there is demand for migrant workers, nothing will stop them from coming here. you think we can frighten them with guns and a stupid frikin wall? in the face of seeing their families suffer, they risk their lives every day to come here. thats reality.

erase the demand, and there is no reason for them to come here.
(and in america, the majority are mexican.)

the solution is as simple as punishing rich white businessmen, but OH LORD WE CANT DO THAT!!!!1111ONEONE rather than fine the shit out of them and actually gain revenue, lets build a ridiculous wall, sink ourselves further into defecite, and solve little or nothing....just so we dont have to give up our racist tendencies. (racism not aimed at you, but you must admit many opinions are steered purely by that)

supply and demand. its such a basic and simple concept but people wont hear it. because we are conditioned to blame and hate the impoverished brown man, rather than the fat cat inviting him and paying him. I said it was easier, not what was appropriate. As long as there is an easier option, then it'll happen. And quite honestly, I don't give a rats ass about the pain and suffering of Illegal Immigrants because they're own country sucks. Let them revolution in there. Or change they're government, or wahtever, but do it there, not here.

Originally posted by PVS
im just quoting a great southpark episode....dont mind me

ha ha ;

lets hope they wont start protesting the same way they did in that episode.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
I said it was easier, not what was appropriate. As long as there is an easier option, then it'll happen. And quite honestly, I don't give a rats ass about the pain and suffering of Illegal Immigrants because they're own country sucks. Let them revolution in there. Or change they're government, or wahtever, but do it there, not here.

building a giant 2000 mile long wall is easier than
simply imposing more sanctions on those who hire?

and we are going off coarse by saying "i dont care about them blah blah"
as much as i would liek to call it a bloated and cold outlook, neither of our opinions matter. they WILL come here.

-build giant wall $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

or

- impose a stiff penalty on those who hire

Originally posted by soleran30
lol not to mention the conditioning required to think that all the men in charge are fat white men!!!!

ZOMG LOLZ!!!!!!!!1111111ELEVENELEVEN!!111!!! useless response if i ever saw one. i said rich white men. 1 out of 100 are not white? should i care? does anyone have common sense here?
Originally posted by soleran30

So we punish what 200 of your "rich white business men" (hell women run companies as well) for what 1 million each? 20 million dollars.......even more or we take some of the people off border patrol that are gonna be more like 48 million a year MINIMUM increase (not current costs just expected increases with NEW guards) and I can see where your idea makes alot of sense.........uh huh. Lets also not forget the legal costs of making these people pay so you generate FAR less revenue then you expect.............

you miss the point purposely just to carry on and be pompous it seems. you're droning on about less revenue and im talking about the alternative being disasterous to our deficite. what the f*** is the logic in splitting hairs on revenue when the alternative is DEBT
common sense anyone?


oh and you are sooooooo right. the law never serves to protect the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. never. just an illusion.
your desperate attempt to take all focus off of those who hire them is proof of said conditioning. give me your paw....beg...now roll over play dead.

oops double post

(maybe soleron can use that to distract from my point even further.
OMG STUPID DOUBLE POST!!! LOLZ!!)

Originally posted by PVS
ZOMG LOLZ!!!!!!!!1111111ELEVENELEVEN!!111!!! useless response if i ever saw one. i said rich white men. 1 out of 100 are not white? should i care? does anyone have common sense here?


you miss the point purposely just to carry on and be pompous it seems. you're droning on about less revenue and im talking about the alternative being disasterous to our deficite. what the f*** is the logic in splitting hairs on revenue when the alternative is DEBT
common sense anyone?


oh and you are sooooooo right. the law never serves to protect the wealthy at the expense of the middle class. never. just an illusion.

LOL typical PVS response.......

Well with responses like these I then assume you know some of the other alternatives that are on the table or were on the table to correct this issue.

Since you are so up on our DEFICIT and DEBT you must know that these illegal immigrants cost billions and billions of dollars.

So wow me with your piece on illegal immigrants and their plight again........here is a great site for more information.

http://www.cis.org/

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL typical PVS response.......

Well with responses like these I then assume you know some of the other alternatives that are on the table or were on the table to correct this issue.

Since you are so up on our DEFICIT and DEBT you must know that these illegal immigrants cost billions and billions of dollars.

So wow me with your piece on illegal immigrants and their plight again........here is a great site for more information.

http://www.cis.org/

once again you desperately avoid the point.
i know you're doing it on purpose and i want to know why?

you feel that this money pit is a better option? as ridiculous as it is,
i would at least partially respect your opinion if you acknowledged that
businesses are getting away with hiring them. not just private contractors and mom and pop shops, buy megastores like walmart just got busted for hiring millions of illegals across the country, and will neverhave to answer for it. you know this but for some reason you see them as being completely innocent and removed from the problem. why? why do you remain intentionally and proudly ignorant of this? as well as the simple law of supply (immigrants) and demand (businesses who hire them). why do you ignore the fact that a lack of supply increases demand, and a lack of demand renders the supply useless? is so frikin elementary

Next Episode: PVS and the Chineese Military - Why China is a big toilet!

Originally posted by PVS
once again you desperately avoid the point.
i know you're doing it on purpose and i want to know why?

you feel that this money pit is a better option? as ridiculous as it is,
i would at least partially respect your opinion if you acknowledged that
businesses are getting away with hiring them. not just private contractors and mom and pop shops, buy megastores like walmart just got busted for hiring millions of illegals across the country, and will neverhave to answer for it. you know this but for some reason you see them as being completely innocent and removed from the problem. why? why do you remain intentionally and proudly ignorant of this?


No on the contrary you seem to feel that the "big man" whatever you decide to characterize in that role is the deciding factor and the where with all to end this. I have made several pieces available for you to educate yourself on this topic as I have addressed this piece now on four different posts.

I have never EVER once said I agree with how large corporations or any employeer for that matter is handled in this discussion or any other of the 4-5 immigrant posts on here in how penalties are recieved. However I have looked to other means.....this wall deters illegal immigrants and inceases homeland security, 2 birds one stone.

So the wall is going to be disasterious to our deficit please help me with my econ here break it down for me show me how this is the disasterous piece for our economy..........I can show you 11-20 billion dollar loses due to illegal immigrants.

Originally posted by soleran30

I have never EVER once said I agree with how large corporations or any employeer for that matter is handled in this discussion or any other of the 4-5 immigrant posts on here in how penalties are recieved.

i said that you remain in willful denial. big difference.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Next Episode: PVS and the Chineese Military - Why China is a big toilet!

that made no sense at all

Originally posted by PVS
so long as there is demand for migrant workers, nothing will stop them from coming here. you think we can frighten them with guns and a stupid frikin wall? in the face of seeing their families suffer, they risk their lives every day to come here. thats reality.

erase the demand, and there is no reason for them to come here.
(and in america, the majority are mexican.)

the solution is as simple as punishing rich white businessmen, but OH LORD WE CANT DO THAT!!!!1111ONEONE rather than fine the shit out of them and actually gain revenue, lets build a ridiculous wall, sink ourselves further into defecite, and solve little or nothing....just so we dont have to give up our racist tendencies. (racism not aimed at you, but you must admit many opinions are steered purely by that)

supply and demand. its such a basic and simple concept but people wont hear it. because we are conditioned to blame and hate the impoverished brown man, rather than the fat cat inviting him and paying him.

I completely agree with this. I'd rather save the money that would be required to build the wall and spend the effort on stomping the shit out of the people that really deserve it. I may not like illegal immigration, but at the end of the day, I can't blame the honest ones.

What we also need is a new, easily accessible temporary work program.

Not to appear ignorant, but what exactly are the benifits of Temporary Work Programs?

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Not to appear ignorant, but what exactly are the benifits of Temporary Work Programs?

In my limited understanding of them, it allows the immigrants to come into the country legally under a temporary basis to work. Helps regulate those that don't want permanent citizenship. I'm sure a lot of them skip out on it, though, and maybe the current program turns off a lot of them.

I don't know, really. My real point was that what we have now needs to be looked into and probably changed rather than putting up a big, 700 foot-long fence and calling it progress.

Mine it

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Not to appear ignorant, but what exactly are the benifits of Temporary Work Programs?


It allows workers from another country the opportunity to earn American Dollars which spend much better in their country then say pessos

I know several Legal immigrants that come to the US to work do a damn fine job and make alot of money for what they do...........I say good deal, now if we could just enforce tax's on them as well

Actually, PVS... yes, it is both easier and cheaper to build a wall than try and attack the root opf the problem in the way you describe.

It's all very well saying you should strangle the demand, but the same applies to drugs- the demand issue is insoluble, so the best you can do is try and restrict supply.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Actually, PVS... yes, it is both easier and cheaper to build a wall than try and attack the root opf the problem in the way you describe.

It's all very well saying you should strangle the demand, but the same applies to drugs- the demand issue is insoluble, so the best you can do is try and restrict supply.

monitering drug use of millions and monitering the employment records/investigating large companies is hardly on the same level of difficulty imho.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Not to appear ignorant, but what exactly are the benifits of Temporary Work Programs?

its a way of appealing to the public, but remaining in the pocket of big business. so comon vatos!!!! take a ride on 'el autobus de walmart'

Originally posted by PVS
monitering drug use of millions and monitering the employment records/investigating large companies is hardly on the same level of difficulty imho.


That isn't so true they can get social security numbers VERY EASY even illegally and on a stright exam would look like a normal citizen. Hell my friend works construction and aside from him the entire crew is mexican they can flat show you how to do it.


I agree PVS make the employeer pay except its not all big fat cats either and the little guys would still suffer the most on this totem pole.....ie small farmers, construction teams etc etc.......

Originally posted by soleran30
I agree PVS make the employeer pay except its not all big fat cats either and the little guys would still suffer the most on this totem pole.....ie small farmers, construction teams etc etc.......

nor will they be caught. there is no quick fix to the problem, but if you start at the top, you cut a huge percentage of illegal workers.

nothing will stop the problem 100% but i see building a 2000 mile wall as downright comical. something i would see in a southpark episode, but would never have dared to imagine it created by the stupidity of our administration. its a money pit.

2000? Wasn't it 700?

the only way a wall (fence) would be effective is to span the boarder, which is 2000 miles. granted, they proposed a 700 mile fence spanning a certain portion of the boarder which seems to harbor more criminals and drug trafficers.