Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

if you like revan a little too much, stay away.
setting: senate room.

This has been done before

i searched, and it hasnt been made 1v1. they have been on teams that were fighting eachother, but not 1v1

Been done before.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366908&highlight=revan+vs+yoda
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348000&highlight=revan+vs+yoda
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343232&highlight=revan+vs+yoda
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349861&highlight=revan+vs+yoda
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=335044&highlight=revan+vs+yoda




Use the search button. It is your friend.

Been done a few times

Revan wins.

impossible. i was doing this to see how fanboyish ppl can get about revan. yoda would easily beat him with sabers and force power(s). revan, ill admit, is a stragety wiz, but he is not controlling an army, he is fighting one of the most powerful jedi ever known, hand to hand.

Originally posted by calvin44
impossible. i was doing this to see how fanboyish ppl can get about revan. yoda would easily beat him with sabers and force power(s). revan, ill admit, is a stragety wiz, but he is not controlling an army, he is fighting one of the most powerful jedi ever known, hand to hand.

Revan's power in far in excess of Yoda's. For one, Yoda can't use offensive power, Revan can.

Yoda is inferior in force and sabre combat.

Originally posted by calvin44
impossible. i was doing this to see how fanboyish ppl can get about revan. yoda would easily beat him with sabers and force power(s). revan, ill admit, is a stragety wiz, but he is not controlling an army, he is fighting one of the most powerful jedi ever known, hand to hand.

You wanted to see Revan fanboys? Why is your own Yoda fanboyism not enough to entertain you anymore?

Everybody can beat Yoda, even C3P0 could beat him if the situation is right. I haven't seen any fanboys here but you. And Revan is apparantly far more skilled then you realise, he would most likely defeat Yoda.

Revan is far more powerful for Yoda. His knowledge of the force would greatly overcome Yoda's and even though his saber skill is probably weaker than Yoda's (it's hard to tell how strong his saber skills are), it wouldn't come down to a duel.

Originally posted by Fishy
You wanted to see Revan fanboys? Why is your own Yoda fanboyism not enough to entertain you anymore?

Everybody can beat Yoda, even C3P0 could beat him if the situation is right. I haven't seen any fanboys here but you. And Revan is apparantly far more skilled then you realise, he would most likely defeat Yoda.

WTF?!

Originally posted by Fishy
You wanted to see Revan fanboys? Why is your own Yoda fanboyism not enough to entertain you anymore?

Everybody can beat Yoda, even C3P0 could beat him if the situation is right. I haven't seen any fanboys here but you. And Revan is apparantly far more skilled then you realise, he would most likely defeat Yoda.

Are you being sarcastic or not. It's hard to tell with you.

Originally posted by kingkman
Are you being sarcastic or not. It's hard to tell with you.

I sure as hell hope he is.

Fishy said that Yoda is indeed defeatable to respond to Calvins fanboyism. What is it you guys don't get?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Use the search button. It is your friend. Is that a Janus quote?

Originally posted by overlord
Fishy said that Yoda is indeed defeatable to respond to Calvins fanboyism. What is it you guys don't get?

Is that a Janus quote?

What i didn't get was his sarcasm was completely out of tune with his seriousness

I mean he's saying that anybody could defeat Yoda, even C3PO while also saying that Revan is far superior to Yoda. His use of sarcasm in this context completely undermines the message he is trying to give.

Originally posted by kingkman
I mean he's saying that anybody could defeat Yoda, even C3PO while also saying that Revan is far superior to Yoda. His use of sarcasm in this context completely undermines the message he is trying to give.

I quote this simply to reinforce it. Yoda, sure as hell, isn't going to be defeated by C-3P0.

I hate to explain this but Fishy probably said it to provoke Calvin.
Hence why he said "under the right circumstances"...

Originally posted by calvin44
impossible. i was doing this to see how fanboyish ppl can get about revan. yoda would easily beat him with sabers and force power(s). revan, ill admit, is a stragety wiz, but he is not controlling an army, he is fighting one of the most powerful jedi ever known, hand to hand.

If you knew the answer to who would win, why make a thread about it?

Overlord is right, normally C3P0 wouldn't stand a chance but if the time and the place are right he might just pull it off, like Yoda sleeping and almost dying and C3P0 with a thermal detonator and a blaster.

And I do think that Revan would take Yoda.

I don't think C-3PO could toss a thermal or fire a blaster, neither have the balls to do either.

Originally posted by kamikz
I don't think C-3PO could toss a thermal or fire a blaster, neither have the balls to do either.

Well he probably could if he needed to, but the point still stands. Nothing is impossible in a fight.

i was being sarcastic about yoda beating him, but im just so pissed about the fanboyism of revan.

And fighting fanboyism with far more absurd fanboyism is a good idea, why?

Honestly....Yoda takes this one easily. Yoda was simply the most powerful Jedi of most any time, coming in second behind NJO Luke only. His power in the force being unmatched and his knowledge of all the eras.

Revan is not as strong as he's made out to be. He's far weaker than the exceptional greats

I really think some common sense should be applied when comparing video game characters to movie characters, some of their respective feats can be attributed soley to the medium they have been represented in. Instant-kill, immortal, destroying an entire fleet with rage, etc..

Neither of these characters would "own" the other, it would be a great battle and could go either way.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Honestly....Yoda takes this one easily. Yoda was simply the most powerful Jedi of most any time, coming in second behind NJO Luke only. His power in the force being unmatched and his knowledge of all the eras.

Revan is not as strong as he's made out to be. He's far weaker than the exceptional greats

Where did you crawl out of? The Commision for Making Movie Characters More Badass Than They Really Are?

Yoda was simply the most powerful Jedi of most any time, coming in second behind NJO Luke only

So they jedi must really ****ing suck, because last I checked Yoda got tooled by Sidious, who was in the grand scheme of things a relatively minor Sith lord who's abilities had to be reinforced with artifacts from older Sith, not to mention the stpid Kaiburr crystal and other assorted bonuses.

Revan is pretty badass. In an entire war of Sith and dark jedi versus the Jedi Order and the Republic, no one defeated him in combat. Even Malak, who can destroy jedi knights easier than Sidious can, and was a reputable fighter in the Mandalorian Wars (See his official profile) lost to Revan decisively. According to KotOR II, he apparently has Force-aided battle precognition. This is a heightened version of regular Jedi senses. You're telling me that Yoda will be able to contend with someone who can read his moves before he's thought of them? Yoda could barely keep pace with Sidious, who was defeated by Mace Windu with a simple kick.

I don't recall any sweat on Mace Windu's dome when he had Sidious on the floor. Wait...... here it comes...



Revan was a powerful, intelligent and capable Sith Lord of an age of war and saber battles. Yoda was an ancient Jedi master who was bested by a politician-Sith Lord. I realize that his little flips make your jaw drop, but he never wins a saber fight decisively and when it comes to offensive force powers, Revan bests him. Done.

Blind Guardian pretty much said everything that needs to be said.

*applause*

That post pretty much sums up why I can't stand debating between game/EU characters and movie ones, some lazy writer or game designer (this coming from a game programmer..) can decide on a whim that some random character is invincible or can kill opponents with a single unblockable move and completely ignore what has already been established in the universe. *Sigh* The idea that Yoda and Sidious are weak Masters of their respective Orders is insane, George Lucas would laugh at the idea, hes clearly established that in his universe they are the peak of what a Jedi and Sith can be.

Originally posted by Wally West
That post pretty much sums up why I can't stand debating between game/EU characters and movie ones, some lazy writer or game designer (this coming from a game programmer..) can decide on a whim that some random character is invincible or can kill opponents with a single unblockable move and completely ignore what has already been established in the universe. *Sigh* The idea that Yoda and Sidious are weak Masters of their respective Orders is insane, George Lucas would laugh at the idea, hes clearly established that in his universe they are the peak of what a Jedi and Sith can be.

Hence why the EU is a seperate and parallel universe to that of Lucas', similar but different

Originally posted by Blind Guardian
Where did you crawl out of? The Commision for Making Movie Characters More Badass Than They Really Are?

Yoda was simply the most powerful Jedi of most any time, coming in second behind NJO Luke only

So they jedi must really ****ing suck, because last I checked Yoda got tooled by Sidious, who was in the grand scheme of things a relatively minor Sith lord who's abilities had to be reinforced with artifacts from older Sith, not to mention the stpid Kaiburr crystal and other assorted bonuses.

Revan is pretty badass. In an entire war of Sith and dark jedi versus the Jedi Order and the Republic, no one defeated him in combat. Even Malak, who can destroy jedi knights easier than Sidious can, and was a reputable fighter in the Mandalorian Wars (See his official profile) lost to Revan decisively. According to KotOR II, he apparently has Force-aided battle precognition. This is a heightened version of regular Jedi senses. You're telling me that Yoda will be able to contend with someone who can read his moves before he's thought of thKaiem? Yoda could barely keep pace with Sidious, who was defeated by Mace Windu with a simple kick.

I don't recall any sweat on Mace Windu's dome when he had Sidious on the floor. Wait...... here it comes...



Revan was a powerful, intelligent and capable Sith Lord of an age of war and saber battles. Yoda was an ancient Jedi master who was bested by a politician-Sith Lord. I realize that his little flips make your jaw drop, but he never wins a saber fight decisively and when it comes to offensive force powers, Revan bests him. Done.


Where did you come out of? The KOTOR fanboy database? If you crack open a sourcebook or commentary, you'd see I was right here.
Yoda tooled by Sidious? Oh, yes, only outwitted and beaten when destiny was against him and he was facing the mightiest Sith who ever lived-y'know, this was kinda said by Marka Ragnos himself.

Kaiburr crystal? How sweet, did you get that from Super Shadow?

Who do I trust...numerous source books, authors and SW Insider...or some KOTOR fanboy on a message board?

And Mace was only one of the best Jedi swordsmen who ever lived. And the plausible theory of Sidious's planned defeat. Politician Sith Lord? What do you say to Palpatine wiping out a Republic fleet? Or to Palpatine sucking the life out of 6 billion people on Byss to regain his power?

Come back when you learn about Star Wars. You'd get eaten alive in the real communities

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where did you come out of? The KOTOR fanboy database? If you crack open a sourcebook or commentary, you'd see I was right here.
Yoda tooled by Sidious? Oh, yes, only outwitted and beaten when destiny was against him and he was facing the mightiest Sith who ever lived-y'know, this was kinda said by Marka Ragnos himself.

Kaiburr crystal? How sweet, did you get that from Super Shadow?

Who do I trust...numerous source books, authors and SW Insider...or some KOTOR fanboy on a message board?

And Mace was only one of the best Jedi swordsmen who ever lived. And the plausible theory of Sidious's planned defeat. Politician Sith Lord? What do you say to Palpatine wiping out a Republic fleet? Or to Palpatine sucking the life out of 6 billion people on Byss to regain his power?

Come back when you learn about Star Wars. You'd get eaten alive in the real communities
it is spelled marko ragnos.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where did you come out of? The KOTOR fanboy database? If you crack open a sourcebook or commentary, you'd see I was right here.
Yoda tooled by Sidious? Oh, yes, only outwitted and beaten when destiny was against him and he was facing the mightiest Sith who ever lived-y'know, this was kinda said by Marka Ragnos himself.

Kaiburr crystal? How sweet, did you get that from Super Shadow?

Who do I trust...numerous source books, authors and SW Insider...or some KOTOR fanboy on a message board?

And Mace was only one of the best Jedi swordsmen who ever lived. And the plausible theory of Sidious's planned defeat. Politician Sith Lord? What do you say to Palpatine wiping out a Republic fleet? Or to Palpatine sucking the life out of 6 billion people on Byss to regain his power?

Come back when you learn about Star Wars. You'd get eaten alive in the real communities

The "real" communities? Are you puffing your chest over a FORUM?

What kind of man are you? Or would that be stretching the truth?

Please... either prove up or shut up. You bore me.

The same could apply for you. Try The Force.net, open up one of the sourcebooks, read a little. The only thing that's boring is your foul manner and boorish insults. Kindly back up YOUR points.

I have when I've made them.

And TheForce.net is not an official site. So please, stop peddling it here.

The Force.net has many officials on it, including Leland Chee and numerous other authors...KJA, Walter Jon Williams, Jon Ostrander...to name a few

And they are? Proof of their "credentials"? I hate to break this to you, but the default position is negative. You have to prove that these are credible sources, not just appeal to authority. That's a logical fallacy, btw.

So....a place where official authors hang out isn't high up? Leland Chee, place in control of The Holocron isn't 'official' enough for you?

Apparently you do not understand the basic concept here:

YOU are making an assertion that such and such credible people who I don't know from Adam at an unofficial site have made claims about subject material and YOU refuse to provide any proof.

Look, I can do it too:

Job Bob at TehFurce.com said that Vader is gay.

And TheForce.net's reputation does sort of disprove you there. Can you deny that officials make their way to TFN.net? Can you deny its reputation? Can you deny for one second that theForce.net is a massive authority on Star Wars? It may be unofficial, but TFN released details on Episode 3 long before the movie came out. They've got exclusive interviews, published products and have become probably the best damn SW site in existence.

He doesn't think Kaiburr crystals in the Star Wars universe!

The only time I recall a kaiburr crystal being mentioned was Splinter of the Mind's Eye....it's possible Supershadow's playing havox with my memories though

Originally posted by overlord
Fishy said that Yoda is indeed defeatable to respond to Calvins fanboyism. What is it you guys don't get?

Is that a Janus quote?
Not that I know of, though he has probably said something similar to that before.

Lightsnake...

Sidious was not a heavy weight amongst Sith Lords. He doesn't even come close unless its DE Sidious in which cacse he's pretty damn powerful the movie Sidious however would be absolutely schooled by most if not all of the older Sith Lords..

yoda however BG is greater then Sidious but because of the way he fights he will never be able to beat an opponent fast Sidious or Revan, well he would most likely not be able to beat Revan at all. But his fight with Sidious who is nothing compared to Revan in the movies means nothing about his fight with Revan.

I'm sick of this. Sidious isn't 'one of' the heavyweights, or 'one of the strongest'. Give me a sINGLE THING that the ancient Sith did to compare to him, and don't hurl that lying, manipulative Sith Kreia's quote at me. She never heard of Palpatine, A and she's a known liar, B. You want to contend with the official sources who call Palpatine the strongest Sith EVER? OF ALL TIME? You know the Ancient Sith THEMSELVES said Sith was the greatest and strongest in Empire's End?

Revan is NOTHING compared to Sidious or the upper tier Sith and this has been proven. Kevin J. Anderson himself, who CREATED Ragnos and Kun said they were weaker than Sidious

You really are an idiot..

Show me quotes and evidence of all of that stuff that you just said, because i'm not going to believe it.

and lets see.. Lets start with the first

Ajunta Pall... Hard to tell if he was really more powerful because we know shit about him. What we do know however is that he survived as a force ghost for 25.000 years and was still powerful enough to kill some sith in training. Force ghosts tend to weaken heavily over time and 25.000 years is a long time. 5.000 was enough to make Ragnos from the most powerful ever to a weak thing. Now of course Ajunta could have had different circumstances, but if the aging all went the same way then he would have been more powerful then anybody. No evidence of this, but he would probably still beat Sidious.

Simus, unchallenged in a time of many powerful Sith Lords, some of which could blow up stars... Yeah he would take Sidious with ease.

Ragnos took out Simus and was unchallenged even on his death bed, he'd take Sidious with ease.

Freedon Nadd, conquered a planet and killed a lot of Jedi with a blaster and a short lightsaber. He'd pwn Sidious silly.

Exar Kun, he made the ground shake as he walked, he blew up stars froze the Republic Senate and all the Jedi there, then pwned his former Jedi Master of great power. He'd pwn Sidious with ease.

Revan controlled the Star Forge, had great power destroyed the Jedi Order, is described as legendaric brilliant powerful smart. He fought his way through council members Star Forge droids that were able to kill Jedi and then defeated Malak a powerful Sith Lord, that was the only other powerful enough to control the Star Forge. Many others tried all died trying, and that includes High Jedi Council members.

Malak a front line warrior and great fighter killed some of the most powerful Jedi and defeated what could very well have been the most powerful jedi of that time, who only escaped because of a fluke. He was unmatched except for Revan, and thats not really something to be ashamed off.

Bane, survived a bomb that should have killed everybody but the strongest. 2.000 or 20.000 people where there he was the only survivor. These were sith that had fought their entire lives and were great fighters, he too would pwn Sidious.

Sidious on the other hand has done nothing, but manipulated he hasn't fought a single battle himself. Well he fought two, he lost one and he "won" the other by a fluke, he was losing it but managed to win by luck and circumstances. You are a movie fanboy beyond reason. Now stop being an idiot and accept logic already.

And you're wrong on that count. Yoda was the best master who wasn't a skywalker to ever live.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And you're wrong on that count. Yoda was the best master who wasn't a skywalker to ever live.

WOW what a great post....

you haven't showed us one piece of evidence just your biased fanboyism bullshit. Do yourself and all of us a favour and just shut up.

You know something? Screw that. I've provided my sources. And all you have is an inconclusive game and all you ahve of revan is hearsay with some gameplay. Come on, where's YOUR evidence?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You know something? Screw that. I've provided my sources. And all you have is an inconclusive game and all you ahve of revan is hearsay with some gameplay. Come on, where's YOUR evidence?

You have provided nothing.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And you're wrong on that count. Yoda was the best master who wasn't a skywalker to ever live.

In practice, he was greater than any Skywalker. But in power? Meh. Kyp Durron is as powerful as he, if only by a small amount.

Not according to Aaron Allston!
When asked on Kyp's power, someone asked if he was really better than Yoda and Luke.

Mr. Allston's response: No, he just thinks he is

As for you, fIshy, give your own evidence on why you worship Revan. I'm waiting. You want my sources?
The Dark Empire official sourcebook
Kevin J. Anderson and Leland Chee from Star Wars.com
The Essential guide to characters. The Essential Chronology
the Dark Empire series.

What's your now, hmm?

Oh, yes, I forgot the ROTS novelization, the Republic comic series, Star Wars Insider's discussion on it and several other sourcebooks.

I'm waiting for your evidence on why Sidious is so inferior. If you have any

It'd be a lot easier to formally debate with you if you weren't so damn arrogant, you know that?

And when was this Allston questioned about Kyp's power in relevance to Yoda's? Luke is a good deal above him, as I have argued many a time, but Yoda?

Speak for yourself. And Allston was question on the SW.com forums in regards to Kyp during a debate on Kyp's abilities. Kyp's never demonstrated any sort of power.

I'm sick and tired of people underrating Sidious and his era while riding on the backs of Revan's despite being totally unable to combat official sources and events. what's Revan ver done to compare to Sidious? What'd Ragnos ever do that compares to draining life energy of six billion people with no artifacts or destroying a fleet with the Force?

Fishy continuously provides ZERO evidence for his case

I provide the same thing as you do, a post without any links or whatever... And do you know why? Because I do not need to do so, its a commonly accepted fact over here that Sidious is far weaker then other Sith Lords you argue otherwise and give us a few name's but nothing more direct.

and why oh why are all the ancient Sith Lords suddenly Revan?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Speak for yourself. And Allston was question on the SW.com forums in regards to Kyp during a debate on Kyp's abilities. Kyp's never demonstrated any sort of power.

Care to copy/paste that 'debate' for us?

Kyp? No demonstrations of power? I suppose that's true if you disregard his altering the course of a black hole, tearing the SunCrusher out of Yavin's core, and being considered 'by far' the most powerful of Luke's original students.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm sick and tired of people underrating Sidious and his era while riding on the backs of Revan's despite being totally unable to combat official sources and events. what's Revan ver done to compare to Sidious? What'd Ragnos ever do that compares to draining life energy of six billion people with no artifacts or destroying a fleet with the Force?

I'm sick and tired of you spouting this biased garbage. Nobody's calling Sidious weak. If you've read mine or Escape81's past arguments, you'll find that we have rather high standards of him. But it's only in DE that he really shines as a combatant.

What's Revan ever done? Please.

What'd Ragnos do? He ruled over millions of Sith warlords and magicians, -- who were described as 'god-like' by Anderson's narrative itself -- struck fear into the hearts of everyone who came across him, including a Sith Magician powerful enough and genius enough to destroy stars, and defeated the Dark Lord Simus.

And he drained the life out of six billion people on Byss? Nihilus decimated entire species, entire populations, entire planets, in his ravaging hunger.



He didn't think he had to, considering Sidious's abilities as of ROTS are nothing to write home about compared to his abilities in the DE series.

Fine, Revan aside. How do you respond to the Ancients calling him the strongest who'd ever lived? KJA, who CREATED the Ancients putting them below Sidious?

That's fine'n dandy for Kyp, but Luke tosses star destroyers around, while Kyp needed the help of Dorsk 81 and the other Padawans to destroy Daala's fleet.

That little power wasn't something Nihilius controlled. And to date he only ever did it on a small Miraluka colony world. Ragnos also defered to Palpatine's final wish in Empire's End, Palpatine CONTROLLED his life draining on Byss...and y'know something real funny? Sadow never destroyed a star on his own. He needed the released energies of the other dead Sith Lords and Sith artifacts to do it....and he and Simus were young when they fought.


And what's wrong with his ROTS abilities? Do you expect him to be shooting around lightning and vaporizing buildings as he christens anakin a Sith?

Moreover, Cizal said this himself: If you expect someone to dig through THOUSANDS of posts on dozens of boards, you're insane.

Damn...its a shame Janus was banned...he'd love this.

Nihilus didn't eat a small colony he ate a planet filled with them and Jedi Masters, a lot of Jedi... The Miraklu became pretty much extinct in the outer rim after Nihilus ate them. I wouldn't call that a small colony as they were obviously not extinct before. Even if the world was average that could still mean it had billions of people on it. And that wouldn't be much of a surprise because the Jedi were trying to hide in places with a lot of force activity.

A meeting between Jedi would have to take place in the most force sensitive location.

And in ROTS?

I would have expected him to blast Yoda away with his lightning if he was able to do it, he could have blasted away the entire Jedi Temple because nobody in that time could have matched. Why did he fear the Jedi so if he was that powerful? How come he became a lot better with a lightsaber, in the PT he lost from Mace Windu who is great i'll admit but he wouldn't have lost from mace in DE. in DE Sidious has a lot of things that have made him more powerful, things he doesn't have in the movies. At least you don't have any evidence of it at all, so it would be an incredibly foolish assumption to say he does.

No, the Miraluka did NOT become nearly extinct. Katarr was one single colony world and they were exterminated by Palpatine's genocide when he took over.

He did try to blast away Yoda-only the strongest Jedi master ever and his equal- with lightning. Who says he didn't fake a loss to Mace? Or that Mace didn't get him with a saber because Mace is the best duelist ever? Sidious had a spare saber, the saber duel was no more over than it was when Maul had Obi-wan on the ropes.

You make the Jedi sound like a bunch of ants with glowy sticks...they FAR outnumbered Palpatine and such an action would have gotten the Republic to turn on him, the entirety of the Jedi to attack him...no matter how powerful the giant, thousands of men on him will destroy him. Tell me what Sidious had in DE that made him stronger because you have no proof that there was anything. All he had was Vodo's holocron that didn't work for him-he told as much to Leia before she took it. He never had a THING of the Ancients in Dark Empire. And why did he fear Luke if he was so strong? Why did he fear the Jedi?

Well, I'd fear thousands of strong guys who want me dead if they ever found out about me and I certainly couldn't kill an army of them at once....and as for Luke...would I fear the last known Skywalker who's family is prophesized to destroy my reign? I sure would

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Fine, Revan aside. How do you respond to the Ancients calling him the strongest who'd ever lived? KJA, who CREATED the Ancients putting them below Sidious?

Sadow never destroyed a star on his own. He needed the released energies of the other dead Sith Lords and Sith artifacts to do it....


And what's wrong with his ROTS abilities? Do you expect him to be shooting around lightning and vaporizing buildings as he christens anakin a Sith?


Responding to the quoted points...

They called him (Sidious) the greatest as I recall, because he came the closest to success out of all the Sith. That doesn't make him more powerful.

True, nobody destroyed a star on their own. Wrong that you say he used anyone's spirit. He used the Sith weapon he designed which was able to focus and channel the force to rip the core from a star.

His ROTS abilities are nothing special, especially when you take into context any Sith lord before and including Exar Kun. To be honest, there's not been a Sith of their level of power until Sidious improved himself in DE, partially due to one of Naga Sadow's amulets.



Yoda is far from the strongest Jedi master ever. I'd put Vodo Baas and others of his time above him. I do think Sidious faked his loss against Windu, however.



For the most part, compared to Sith of any power, solitary Jedi are a "bunch of ants with glowy sticks." Sidious had a kaiburr crystal and an amulet of Naga Sadow's in DE, which increased his force powers greatly. Claiming he never had a thing of the Ancient's is ludicrous.

1. No, he was called most POWERFUL as well.

2. He had the MAssassi kill the other Lords for a damn good reason there...

3. Give me a break, we're comparing a movie fight to what others have done in the books? Kun froze a thousand senators....Sidious cloaked himself from the Jedi for ages...and yeah, Yoda's the strongest Jedi master, this is all but stated. What's Vodo ever done to put him above? I could list a lotta Yoda accomplishments

4. You know something, STOP THIS ARTIFACT CRAP! Sadow's gauntlets were lost LONG AGO. Where in the HELL in Dark Empire is it mentioned, shown, IMPLIED that he used a SINGLE GODDAMN ARTIFACT?! He didn't, CASE CLOSED.

5. Give me a- The Jedi were ripping apart Naga's men with great ease...we saw them fighting the Sith Lords in control of his army and all the Jedi who fought them lived, those Sith Lords died. The Jedi ain't as weak as you think bthey are. Where was it ever shown, implied or mentioned that Sidious used anything in DE? That's right, he didn't. You want to keep arguing a futile point here? You want to argue it outright calls him the strongest Sith ever? DE Sidious is not different from any other Sidious incarnation. If he had the aritfacts, he wouldn't have had to go to Korriban

1. Show me the quote.

2. Yes, because he didn't want to be hunted down.

3. And I could list plenty of Vodo's. First, their ages are comparable. Second, Vodo was considered the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order. Third, Vodo was powerful enough to make his walking stick, quote, "more powerful than (a) lightsaber!" Fourth, he obviously had a good estimate of his abilities since he confronted Exar Kun with said walking stick with the intent to stop him. Vodo comes from a time where there are more advanced Force techniques. Yoda cannot compare.

4. Oh, yes, because an amulet has to be in gauntlet form, right? Wow, you're sharp. I guess that's why Ulic's was a literal amulet, hung around his neck.

Of course the gauntlet ones were gone, they went with Exar Kun. That doesn't mean Sidious could not find others. They do not have to be in gauntlet form. "Case closed."

5. Great ease? Is that why they almost lost? Is that why one Jedi master had to sacrifice himself to kill a platoon of them? Wow. I guess it was called "The Great Hyperspace War" because of all the ass the Jedi were kicking. Give me a break.

Show me scans of where we see the Jedi fighting the Lords of the Sith during that war. Until then, I think you're full of it. And it doesn't change the point regardless; no single Jedi could stand against Exar Kun in his time. No single Jedi could stand against Sadow in his.

Again, quote what calls Sidious the strongest Sith ever, and cite it. Shouting isn't going to prove your point for you.

What is with Lightsnake and these Quotes?

The Last quote he wanted to show me was from the ROTS Novel.

lmao

LMAO! Of course your opinion means far more than official material.

1. Dark Empire sourcebook: "Emperor Palpatine, the most powerful Sith who had ever lived had returned." Says something to that effect in the Chronology as well.

2. And also because he needed the release of their energy, like Kun did with the Massassi to a different level. And Vodo's staff was bested by an angry padawan

3. Vodo's Grandmaster thing is never mentioned. He stayed on Dantooine mainly. You want to say why many people call Yoda the strongest Jedi master? Proof these force techniques beat Yoda's? Did Vodo ever kill a group of Dark Jedi masters by himself and survive next to a nest of Dark Side energy for twenty years?

4. Ulic WORE his Gauntlet several times. What is the point you're trying to make here? Funny how Sidious is never shown to be wearing or in possession of any artifact besides Vodo's holocron which noticeably DOES NOT WORK FOR HIM.

5. The Great Hyperspace war lasted less than a day. Why don't you pick up the comic 'Downfall of the Sith Empire' and READ a little? And Ooroo died in KIRREK, to wipe out an entire ARMY of them for the outnumbered soldiers there. Elsewhere we only saw...four Jedi knights fighting and they killed every Sith Lord they fought with minor injuries. Did you ever even READ The tales of the Jedi? The only thing Sadow had remotely going for him were illusions. When Gav Daragon broke them, The Sith forces were routed very quickly. Kinda like how Exar Kun never took part in the Sith War until a miniscule part at the end.

6. Once more: Did you ever read Dark Empire? Hell, we see Sidious in an open robe at his strongest...no gauntlet on his hands or around his neck, except for his black robe he's wearing nothing. Where'd you hear of this Kaiburr crystal and gauntlets? When's it hinted Sidious had them?

1) Ah yes, because that's not meant for dramatic effect. Oh no, we have to take what they say as God's-honest truth. Nevermind that other sources proclaim Ragnos as, "the most powerful of the most powerful," which can and has been skewed to mean he is the most powerful Force user, ever.

2) No, bull. There's nothing in the narrative or anything else stating that he needed their energy for anything. Much the opposite is true, since Aleema Keto, a weakling, replicated Sadow's feat with Sadow's weapon without having to slaugher Sith Lords. But I'm glad you can just pull reasons out of the air like that. I'm also glad you can just dismiss the ability to make an ordinary object more powerful than a lightsaber as unimportant since a Padawan, who happened to be the most powerful force user of his era and not far at all from Knighthood, could break it using anger and two lightsabers.

3) *rolls eyes* Yes. Nevermind that he's among the oldest Jedi Masters of his time and lived through both of the conflicts with Freedon Nadd, definitely taking part in both. Nevermind that even after 4000 years his spirit was strong enough to help banish Exar Kun's. Oh no, Vodo can't be greater than our little green friend. Nevermind that Yoda displays no powers or special techniques on Vodo's level. Nevermind that both are considered the Grandmasters of their eras, but Vodo's era was a time of war whereas Yoda's was a time of relative peace, with weaker Jedi on average.

4) I question your literacy. Ulic Qel-Droma did not have any of Naga Sadow's gauntlet amulets. He had a proper amulet hung around his neck. Exar Kun posessed the famous gauntlet amulets.

5) Nonsense. The Jedi and Republic were very nearly crushed in said war. And you toss away Naga Sadow's illusion feat like any child can do it. You realize that despite 90% of his army being illusions he was routing the Republic? I guarantee you, Sidious can't do that. Aleema performs similar feats in The Sith War. And the Sith War wasn't so much a war as it was a few spectacular acts of terrorism. But to say Exar Kun's role is miniscule is foolish: He personally curbstomped the wisest and most powerful Jedi Masters the order had to offer (Odan-Urr, Vodo Baas, Ood) and converted twenty Knights to his cause to eliminate many others. He ordered the destruction of the Cron Cluster, and therefore Ossus. He terrified the Republic by waltzing into the Senate like he owned the place and freezing all the senators and guards.

6) Ask some of the others here on Dark Empire, I imagine they know more than me. I'm going off of what they said. I submit, however, that it is certainly not improbable that Sidious recovered or used either of those items given that he did go to Korriban and we don't know for sure what sort of knowledge he's gathered in his long life.

1. Is it an official source? Was it checked over by the bigwigs and Leland Chee? YES. Never mind Ragnos is never declared the greatest Sith of all time. Nevermind he's only called the strongest who ruled the Sith Empire. Palpatine's encompasses all other eras. I'm sorry, you lose here. Even KJA who CREATED Ragnos said he never wanted him above Palpatine

2. Fine, I'll let this point go. My point was he didn't pull a star explosion out of thin air: he needed the artifacts and ship. And Kun didn't achieve nearly so much power until he met Freedon Nadd, have you ever read the comic?

3. The Jedi never took on Nadd ONCE. He left them and that was it. They didn't even know what became of him until Ulic's trio went to Onderon. Nevermind Vodo was only able to return thanks to the Padawans who were banishing Kun-Who was tricked by PADAWANS for God's sake. Proof the Jedi were weaker in Yoda's era? Oh, that's right, THERE IS NONE! Did Vodo ever crush a full force of powerful Dark Jedi on his own or live next to a stew of Dark Side energy for decades? Read Dark Rendevous and tell me Vodo holds a candle to Yoda.

4. Read the damn comic. Exar had ONE amulet. He went hunting for Ulic because Ulic had the other. Freedon Nadd gave one to Aleema who gave it to Ulic. YES, he had an amulet.

5. Bull. The War lasted maybe several hours and nowhere is Cinnagar or Coruscant shown to be REMOTELY damaged, nor was there a single known Jedi casualty except Ooroo. His army wasn't 'routing' the Republic at all. There was maybe...an hour of fighting before Gav fired on Sadow and the Republic crushed Sadow's forces. Any proof the Republic was losing? And Odan-Urr was never known as a fighter and was caught off guard by Exar using a FREAKING SITH AMULET on him. The only thing you can consider significant whatsoever is his rescue of Ulic and Vodo's death. And Ood and Kun's sabers clashed once before a Massassi slashed Ood down. And he didn't order anyone into destroying the Crom cluster, he tricked Aleema into it. And in the long run, Ossus didn't mean a damn. In fact, he was screwed over thanks to Ossus. Send Ulic after his friends and brother, GREAT plan

6. Sidious is never shown or mentioned to having or wear any old artifacts. The last time he ever went to Korriban, he had Vader with him, the spirits there actually asked him what'd happened to Vader as his place was still empty. That's...quite the gap of time.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Is it an official source? Was it checked over by the bigwigs and Leland Chee? YES. Never mind Ragnos is never declared the greatest Sith of all time. Nevermind he's only called the strongest who ruled the Sith Empire. Palpatine's encompasses all other eras. I'm sorry, you lose here. Even KJA who CREATED Ragnos said he never wanted him above Palpatine

2. Fine, I'll let this point go. My point was he didn't pull a star explosion out of thin air: he needed the artifacts and ship. And Kun didn't achieve nearly so much power until he met Freedon Nadd, have you ever read the comic?

3. The Jedi never took on Nadd ONCE. He left them and that was it. They didn't even know what became of him until Ulic's trio went to Onderon. Nevermind Vodo was only able to return thanks to the Padawans who were banishing Kun-Who was tricked by PADAWANS for God's sake. Proof the Jedi were weaker in Yoda's era? Oh, that's right, THERE IS NONE! Did Vodo ever crush a full force of powerful Dark Jedi on his own or live next to a stew of Dark Side energy for decades? Read Dark Rendevous and tell me Vodo holds a candle to Yoda.

4. Read the damn comic. Exar had ONE amulet. He went hunting for Ulic because Ulic had the other. Freedon Nadd gave one to Aleema who gave it to Ulic. YES, he had an amulet.

5. Bull. The War lasted maybe several hours and nowhere is Cinnagar or Coruscant shown to be REMOTELY damaged, nor was there a single known Jedi casualty except Ooroo. His army wasn't 'routing' the Republic at all. There was maybe...an hour of fighting before Gav fired on Sadow and the Republic crushed Sadow's forces. Any proof the Republic was losing? And Odan-Urr was never known as a fighter and was caught off guard by Exar using a FREAKING SITH AMULET on him. The only thing you can consider significant whatsoever is his rescue of Ulic and Vodo's death. And Ood and Kun's sabers clashed once before a Massassi slashed Ood down. And he didn't order anyone into destroying the Crom cluster, he tricked Aleema into it. And in the long run, Ossus didn't mean a damn. In fact, he was screwed over thanks to Ossus. Send Ulic after his friends and brother, GREAT plan

6. Sidious is never shown or mentioned to having or wear any old artifacts. The last time he ever went to Korriban, he had Vader with him, the spirits there actually asked him what'd happened to Vader as his place was still empty. That's...quite the gap of time.

What a pile of garbage...someone call the cleaners.

And I notice you didn't even attempt to debunk a thing. Ever read Dark Empire or Tales of the Jedi?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And I notice you didn't even attempt to debunk a thing. Ever read Dark Empire or Tales of the Jedi?

Lightsnake I have been at these forums since January. I have seen more Sidious fanboys then I can count, more Revan fanboys than I care to count and more fanboyisim than my mind can conprehend.

To me your just another Sidious fanboy who will have his 15min of fame before dudes like Janus and Illustrious pwn your ass to fanboy city.

I didn't try to debunk your worthless shitload of an argument because really I don't give a damn anymore. I have seen the most pathetic of claims and really your not that high on the list of idiocy compaired to the garbage I have seen from EU and movie fanboys alike.

So really go ahead and drink a cup of STFU...

Oh and yes I have read TOTJ however, I have not read DE.

Answer the question: Read a damn thing I referred to on that argument or do you just ride Janus and Illustrious's arguments? Please, by all means, let them come. When they debunk official direct statements that said Sidious was the strongest, somehow prove he had ancient Sith gear and some how prove the Ancient Sith were godly....then I'll acquiesce.

Until then, shut up until you can contribute a damn thing

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Answer the question: Read a damn thing I referred to on that argument or do you just ride Janus and Illustrious's arguments? Please, by all means, let them come. When they debunk official direct statements that said Sidious was the strongest, somehow prove he had ancient Sith gear and some how prove the Ancient Sith were godly....then I'll acquiesce.

Until then, shut up until you can contribute a damn thing

*yawns*

You done yet?

Quite. Screw off, little boy

1) I've looked over your quote, and it doesn't prove anything. What is power to you? Certainly, Palpatine was the strongest militarily and politically. But I submit that any Sith up to and including Exar Kun would stomp even DE Sidious in a fight. That's the point of the versus forum.

2) I've never argued that Sadow could just rip the core from a star on his own power. However, you discount the fact that Sadow created the means to do so. Where is Palpatine shown to create any object to channel the Force?

And please, don't insult my knowledge of Exar Kun. He was barely a Jedi Knight by the time he met Freedon Nadd, of course he wasn't powerful. He hadn't even embraced the Dark Side yet.

3) You seem to forget that spirits lose their ability to manifest themselves over time. The only reason Kun was able to, for example, was because he used his temples and he could feed off the Jedi there. And you seem to think that being tricked by someone is evidence of their inferiority. Nonsense.

Proof that PT-Era Jedi were weaker: No force powers on Vodo's level (ordinary objects more powerful than lightsabers). No force powers on Arca's level (literally taking droids apart with the Force, battle meditation). No battle meditation period, actually. No force powers on Odan-Urr's or Nomi Sunrider's level (blinding someone to the Force, more battle meditation).

That and they lived in a time of relative peace, unchallenged for a thousand years. Sith War-era Jedi lived in a time of great tumult. They were battle-hardened and headed up the military (Dace Diath, Shoanes Culu, and Qrrl Toq took command of the Republic fleet pursuing Aleema in Sadow's starship). In fact, there's little evidence of Republic political involvement in the Sith War. It seems that the Jedi themselves direct the Republic military in large part, unlike in the PT where Palpatine does.

4) Read the damn comic. Exar is shown in TSW with many baubles on his person. It's ludicrous to think they're just decoration. Either they're recovered artifacts of Sadow's or he created his own based on ancient Sith designs. True, it's only known for sure that Exar recovered one amulet of Sadow's, the left gauntlet connected to a pauldron. However, in TSW his right hand is shown with a similar gauntlet, leading one to believe that he either constructed it himself or found another.

And I question your literacy yet again. Ulic Qel-Droma does not have a gauntlet amulet. He has a proper amulet, given to him by Aleema Keto, that hangs about his neck. Period.

5) Don't be ridiculous Lightsnake. If the war were so unimportant, and the Sith so small a threat, A) the Republic wouldn't have bothered hunting the Sith down and B) the comic wouldn't even have been written. There has to be some conflict in a story or else it's not worth bothering with.

Taking what you're saying into context, you're basically saying that the Sith Empire is Zimbabwe and the Republic is the United States, and Zimbabwe attacked and didn't do much, got curbstomped, and ran away. I say that's nonsense. The Sith were a great threat, they did much damage, and the Republic had to respond with extermination.

1. And considering Kevin J. Anderson who created those Sith said they're weaker than Palpatine, your argument collapses. That quote says 'Strongest Sith of all time.' And that leaves nothing to imagination. Essential Chronology says 'Most powerful'

2. When was it even hinted Sadow created the means to do so?

3. Vodo was a special case on his own. and Kun was TRAPPED TO THE TEMPLE by the Jedi, it wasn't something he ever planned. And it took him opening himself up fully to the Dark Side to get his power. It also took a long time of study on Yavin...and being tricked by Padawans when you're supposedly a badass Sith Lord? Yep, that's inferiority for you. And Yoda dismantled almost a legion of battle droids with the Force....and didn't stop toe ducate his student while TURNING HIS BACK ON AN ARMY OF KRATH DROIDS like Arca did. Yoda was stated to have used Battle meditation, as was Oppo Rancisis. And why the hell would anyone ever NEED to be blinded to the Force? Give me a break, the Jedi didn't do that for fun. And countless wars'd be a detriment. I've yet to see a single great feat that Yoda's era didn't do.

4. You read the damn comic 'Dark Lords of the Sith'. ULIC IS GIVEN THE OTHER AMULET AND KUN GOES LOOKING FOR IT, HENCE HIM FINDING ULIC. Hell, the comic even states they're twins, hence the glowy effect at the end during the saber duel.

5. Yeah, just like The Crystal Star wouldn't have been written...And by the way, the Tetans weren't part of the Republic and THEY were the ones who entered the Sith Space, when the Sith Military was practically destroyed. If they did so much damage, where is it? Where were the massive casualities? Why does Empress Teta say they came out of the war with 'light casualities?' Why is every building standing? Why do Momaw Nadil an his group kill every Sith they meet with the worst injury a cut to the side?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Quite. Screw off, little boy

Rawr!

Mister Appeal to Authority can insult via internet!

You know what they say... you can lead an ass to water, but can you make him think?

Do you ever have anything to offer, Guardian?

I do. I pwned your argument in the other subsection. When you're done shouting at people on this thread, go answer for your ridiculous logic. I want your cheap entertainment.

What exactly did you post to 'pwn' me? I admited I was wrong with the script detail. However, all you did was prove my argument that Nick Gillard is a credible source. Read your own link: He created the find of fighting style seen in the films

And again, he does not have the ability to proclaim the character's pwn-all ability, period. He is a stunt coordinator.

When it comes to fighting styles and how good they are, I'd say the guy who created the fight and styles has a damn good authority over it. Especially as it says on the other page0all official comments FYI-that Gillard was the one who created Palpatine's style.

I addressed this in the other thread.

Originally posted by Blind Guardian
Rawr!

Mister Appeal to Authority can insult via internet!

You know what they say... you can lead an ass to water, but can you make him think? Jesus Christ.. Are you finally done with the appeal to authority stuff? I haven't seen you make a single point since you've been here and your arrogance has already overshadowed your intelligence..http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/icons/v2/icon2.gif

oops.. apperantly he has already pushed the limit..